Motorway rape incident: Abid Malhi and Shafqat Ali sentenced to death [Post#474]

[Major]

You strengthen my point, even a female in a burka can be raped, which shows that we must and must make our female aware of the danger that exists and what needed to be done to protect themselves which is not limited to only laws but also make them aware of the surrounding and teach them tools to protect themselves - ideal world does not exist, in case if you are living in your basement.

Like I've said, and it is quite obvious, you have a political bias and it clouds your reading skills.

oh bhai how else should she protect herself plz tell me.

You can take every safety precaution but you are never protected. Male or female.

Like i have said, even a lady in her coffin which is dead CANNOT be protected.

Doesnt mean you end up making women sit at home.

 

[natkhat-shahzada]

your quote

You are asking others to improve their reading comprehension skills whereas I can say the same for you. The poster whom you have quoted is sarcastically highlighting the double standard of us Pakistanis. He is not linking at all with Islam.

 

[Star_Coffee]

oh bhai how else should she protect herself plz tell me.

You can take every safety precaution but you are never protected. Male or female.

Like i have said, even a lady in her coffin which is dead CANNOT be protected.

Doesnt mean you end up making women sit at home.

 

[Star_Coffee]

You are asking others to improve their reading comprehension skills whereas I can say the same for you. The poster whom you have quoted is sarcastically highlighting the double standard of us Pakistanis. He is not linking at all with Islam.

double standard exists everywhere - but it has nothing to do with Islam - it has to do with Muslims. See the difference.

 

[natkhat-shahzada]

double standard exists everywhere - but it has nothing to do with Islam - it has to do with Muslims. See the difference.

Right. This is what [MENTION=48598]saeedhk[/MENTION] was referring to as well. He was highlighting the double standards of Pakistani (Muslims) and not Islam. When he said fort of Islam, he was referring to Pakistanis and not Islam. I guess it is not hard to understand!

 

[Star_Coffee]

Right. This is what [MENTION=48598]saeedhk[/MENTION] was referring to as well. He was highlighting the double standards of Pakistani (Muslims) and not Islam. When he said fort of Islam, he was referring to Pakistanis and not Islam. I guess it is not hard to understand!

Only if he had used the word "Muslim' and not "Islam".

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Request to mods to kindly embed this tweet as Governor Imran Ismail and PTI MNA Aamir Liaquat have announced that MNA Ali Muhammad Khan will be presenting a bill in NA on 17 Sept. for public execution in such crimes.

You can't legislate for the depths of depravity some citizens will sink to. By all means bring the death penalty if that will deter such actions, but the real questions need to be asked of the motorway police force. These are authorities which are entrusted to safeguard the people, if you can't trust them, then how could you ever expect justice?

 

[Kianig89]

Another stern test for our law enforcement institutions we are morally and ethically corrupt

 

[topspin]

Death penalty doesn't deter people from committing evil.

It's the mindset of the nation that needs to change.

We get triggered when it comes to relatively meaningless matters like "blasphemy", as we've been accustomed to seeing with the protests from the pro-Mumtaz Qadri crowd who swarm around, blocking the streets of every major city in Pakistan.

When it comes to major issues like rape and etc, hardly anyone in Pakistan bats an eyelid.

This is why uniting a nation by religion doesn't work. A secular Pakistan is what's needed for us to progress as a nation.

 

[Major]

Death penalty doesn't deter people from committing evil.

It's the mindset of the nation that needs to change.

We get triggered when it comes to relatively meaningless matters like "blasphemy", as we've been accustomed to seeing with the protests from the pro-Mumtaz Qadri crowd who swarm around, blocking the streets of every major city in Pakistan.

When it comes to major issues like rape and etc, hardly anyone in Pakistan bats an eyelid.

This is why uniting a nation by religion doesn't work. A secular Pakistan is what's needed for us to progress as a nation.

agree with this.

Had this been a blasphemy case or a cartoon case, people would had stormed around.

and thats correct death penality doesn't really make a difference. You need to educate awam while at the same time have proper trained forces to deal with such issues.

Police rejecting to help a women on road. Atleast refer the case to someone else.

THe mindset of the awaam won't change. Just like we saw the CCPO statement, to this awaam the women will always be guilty. It will take generations to change the mindset of this awaam.

 

[topspin]

agree with this.

Had this been a blasphemy case or a cartoon case, people would had stormed around.

and thats correct death penality doesn't really make a difference. You need to educate awam while at the same time have proper trained forces to deal with such issues.

Police rejecting to help a women on road. Atleast refer the case to someone else.

THe mindset of the awaam won't change. Just like we saw the CCPO statement, to this awaam the women will always be guilty. It will take generations to change the mindset of this awaam.

It's time for Pakistan to leave PPP, PML-N and PTI in the dumps and vote for AWP.

 

[Star_Coffee]

Death penalty doesn't deter people from committing evil.

It's the mindset of the nation that needs to change.

We get triggered when it comes to relatively meaningless matters like "blasphemy", as we've been accustomed to seeing with the protests from the pro-Mumtaz Qadri crowd who swarm around, blocking the streets of every major city in Pakistan.

When it comes to major issues like rape and etc, hardly anyone in Pakistan bats an eyelid.

This is why uniting a nation by religion doesn't work. A secular Pakistan is what's needed for us to progress as a nation.

If secularism could prevent rape crime then western countries would have had a significant decline in rape crimes, also considering their police are well trained to compare to Pakistan, it is suggested that every 2 minutes a female in the US is raped.

Harsh punishment is needed but that won't deter rape crimes.

Pakistani are highlighting this issue, you see it all over the social media - and let's not insult civilized Pakistani with a minority of pro- Mumtaz thugs on the street.

Maybe people will come out on the street to protest - I hope they do - but again, none of this will stop rape crimes - a sad reality.

 

[Syed1]

PTI to bring bill for public hangings of rapists and child molesters. May even have an option of castration, not 100% sure about last part.



I hope liberal losers don't start barking about human rights now. A rapist does not deserve any human rights.

 

[Major]

It's time for Pakistan to leave PPP, PML-N and PTI in the dumps and vote for AWP.

AWP isn't a proper party yet. They have to stand up for something important and show its members.
They are a party of educated folks but they cant communicate with the locals. They are not as street smart type of people.

They post ideologies but seem to be too lazy. They should start movements on issues like these to "advertise" themselves to the masses.

Last year, i was part of a student protest in Islamabad. While AWP did give support verbally and on social media, they didn't have any members to join the protest on the field. And that shows they are very weak. Had they joined the students in the protest, students would had felt safe and let them take lead in the protest as agencies were getting involved and stopping students from protesting indirectly.

MQM thrived on student issues. MQM became famous as they part in student protest or protest in rape cases and stood for the people and made a name for themselves in the intial days(they also had agency funding though).

AWP is just a weak cult currently. They have their own bubble, educated liberal folks. AWP is an Islamabad party.

AWP would thrive better had it been in Karachi and had some proper leaders. Because the Islambadi members of AWP are viewed as burgers or just rich kids by the locals. You need to talk in punjabi and act street smart and cunning with the people in these parts.

This is why I like and want to visit Karachi. Its a multicultural city. If AWP had karachi folks in their party, people from different cultures, income groups, they socialize. In Islamabad there is a big gap between the educated class and the rest, people just live in their own bubbles and cults.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Death penalty doesn't deter people from committing evil.

It's the mindset of the nation that needs to change.

We get triggered when it comes to relatively meaningless matters like "blasphemy", as we've been accustomed to seeing with the protests from the pro-Mumtaz Qadri crowd who swarm around, blocking the streets of every major city in Pakistan.

When it comes to major issues like rape and etc, hardly anyone in Pakistan bats an eyelid.

This is why uniting a nation by religion doesn't work. A secular Pakistan is what's needed for us to progress as a nation.

If religion has no impact in a religious country, then why would secular law be any different? Really you just need laws to be implemented, if you can buy your way round justice, then what difference will it make if you call it secular or religious?

 

[topspin]

If secularism could prevent rape crime then western countries would have had a significant decline in rape crimes, also considering their police are well trained to compare to Pakistan, it is suggested that every 2 minutes a female in the US is raped.

Harsh punishment is needed but that won't deter rape crimes.

Pakistani are highlighting this issue, you see it all over the social media - and let's not insult civilized Pakistani with a minority of pro- Mumtaz thugs on the street.

Maybe people will come out on the street to protest - I hope they do - but again, none of this will stop rape crimes - a sad reality.

I don't pay attention to these stats because it is obviously hugely underreported in Pakistan (and other Muslim countries) because a rape victim brings shame to the family and hugely knocks your chances of getting married, as its a put-off in our society to even go near women who fall victim to such a horrible crime.

I think you'll find most Muslims in Pakistan (except Ahmedis and Shias) are pro-Mumtaz Qadri. I don't need stats to back that.

 

[Star_Coffee]

I don't pay attention to these stats because it is obviously hugely underreported in Pakistan (and other Muslim countries) because a rape victim brings shame to the family and hugely knocks your chances of getting married, as its a put-off in our society to even go near women who fall victim to such a horrible crime.

I think you'll find most Muslims in Pakistan (except Ahmedis and Shias) are pro-Mumtaz Qadri. I don't need stats to back that.

Contradicting yourself and using stats where it suits your narrative.

You do not pay attention to stats when the same crime is being done in a secular country at an alarming rate but would want to use stats to support your argument.

Every 2 minutes there's a female rape victim is an issue despite having one of the best trained police and secular laws.

 

[topspin]

AWP isn't a proper party yet. They have to stand up for something important and show its members.
They are a party of educated folks but they cant communicate with the locals. They are not as street smart type of people.

They post ideologies but seem to be too lazy. They should start movements on issues like these to "advertise" themselves to the masses.

Last year, i was part of a student protest in Islamabad. While AWP did give support verbally and on social media, they didn't have any members to join the protest on the field. And that shows they are very weak. Had they joined the students in the protest, students would had felt safe and let them take lead in the protest as agencies were getting involved and stopping students from protesting indirectly.

MQM thrived on student issues. MQM became famous as they part in student protest or protest in rape cases and stood for the people and made a name for themselves in the intial days(they also had agency funding though).

AWP is just a weak cult currently. They have their own bubble, educated liberal folks. AWP is an Islamabad party.

AWP would thrive better had it been in Karachi and had some proper leaders. Because the Islambadi members of AWP are viewed as burgers or just rich kids by the locals. You need to talk in punjabi and act street smart and cunning with the people in these parts.

This is why I like and want to visit Karachi. Its a multicultural city. If AWP had karachi folks in their party, people from different cultures, income groups, they socialize. In Islamabad there is a big gap between the educated class and the rest, people just live in their own bubbles and cults.

Disappointed that they didn't come over to attend the protest, so perhaps they need a bit more backbone and build their presence.

The most important for me is that do not change their core values.

We needed educated and progressive minds for the greater good of Pakistan, not the sterotypical jahil folks.

 

[topspin]

Contradicting yourself and using stats where it suits your narrative.

You do not pay attention to stats when the same crime is being done in a secular country at an alarming rate but would want to use stats to support your argument.

Every 2 minutes there's a female rape victim is an issue despite having one of the best trained police and secular laws.

I will pay attention to stats when I can trust the data that comes out from Pakistan.

It's not just about crime, we lag behind western secular countries in almost every key indicator. I want to see development. Screw all the religious fanatics and Mumtaz Qadri's cheerleaders.

 

[Star_Coffee]

I will pay attention to stats when I can trust the data that comes out from Pakistan.

It's not just about crime, we lag behind western secular countries in almost every key indicator. I want to see development. Screw all the religious fanatics and Mumtaz Qadri's cheerleaders.

That is a separate discussion.

Your initial comment was that it has to do with religion and secularism is the key to end rape crimes - where I pointed out if secularism were to end or significantly decline rape crimes despite having better laws and trained police dealing and preventing rape crimes then rate would have been lower unless you consider female rape victim every 2 minutes is low.

 

[topspin]

If religion has no impact in a religious country, then why would secular law be any different? Really you just need laws to be implemented, if you can buy your way round justice, then what difference will it make if you call it secular or religious?

Look at western secular countries or even one of the most developed Muslim countries such as Turkey, what do they all have in common? They're all secular and are far more established in ensuring law and order is less comprised.

 

[Major]

Disappointed that they didn't come over to attend the protest, so perhaps they need a bit more backbone and build their presence.

The most important for me is that do not change their core values.

We needed educated and progressive minds for the greater good of Pakistan, not the sterotypical jahil folks.

nah, they need proper leadership. They need street smart folks for the Islamabad/Pindi awaam. People of Pindi hate and despise the liberals, secular or anyone who lives a bit of a modern life or communicates in english.

The awaam in our parts like people like Sheikh Rasheed. What AWP needs is a liberal version of Sheikh Rasheed or a Faisal Raza Abdi type.

I remember when Ammar Rasheed giving food donations to poor people of islamabad. Now to those poor people he was just another rich kid helping out who they would assume knew nothing about the politics or problems in their life.
Ammar Rasheed was doing good on his part though.

His part would do more goods in Karachi

 

[saeedhk]

If secularism could prevent rape crime then western countries would have had a significant decline in rape crimes, also considering their police are well trained to compare to Pakistan, it is suggested that every 2 minutes a female in the US is raped.

Harsh punishment is needed but that won't deter rape crimes.

Pakistani are highlighting this issue, you see it all over the social media - and let's not insult civilized Pakistani with a minority of pro- Mumtaz thugs on the street.

Maybe people will come out on the street to protest - I hope they do - but again, none of this will stop rape crimes - a sad reality.

Minority pro-Mumtaz thugs? You are out of touch of reality. Majority of Pakistanis support Mumtaz. Majority of Pakistanis support killing of Ahmedis. Majority of Pakistanis see no wrong in Pakistan. A confused, delusional nation.

Pakistan is a bigger version of the Lal Majid. Bacha bacha jihadi hai.

Did you see how many attended the anti-Shia protests in Peshawar last week? Did you see how many people turned out in support of killer of alleged blasphemer who was killed inside a courtroom? Do you follow Twitter trends from Pakistan? Very often, hashtags that target minorities are trending.

 

[Star_Coffee]

Minority pro-Mumtaz thugs? You are out of touch of reality. Majority of Pakistanis support Mumtaz. Majority of Pakistanis support killing of Ahmedis. Majority of Pakistanis see no wrong in Pakistan. A confused, delusional nation.

Pakistan is a bigger version of the Lal Majid. Bacha bacha jihadi hai.

Did you see how many attended the anti-Shia protests in Peshawar last week? Did you see how many people turned out in support of killer of alleged blasphemer who was killed inside a courtroom? Do you follow Twitter trends from Pakistan? Very often, hashtags that target minorities are trending.

You need to fist decide who you want to blame Islam or Muslims of Pakistan.

 

[topspin]

Minority pro-Mumtaz thugs? You are out of touch of reality. Majority of Pakistanis support Mumtaz. Majority of Pakistanis support killing of Ahmedis. Majority of Pakistanis see no wrong in Pakistan. A confused, delusional nation.

Pakistan is a bigger version of the Lal Majid. Bacha bacha jihadi hai.

Did you see how many attended the anti-Shia protests in Peshawar last week? Did you see how many people turned out in support of killer of alleged blasphemer who was killed inside a courtroom? Do you follow Twitter trends from Pakistan? Very often, hashtags that target minorities are trending.

Precisely this, I can't believe someone can respond to my post in relation to this fact with "let's not insult civilized Pakistani with a minority of pro- Mumtaz thugs on the street". The fact that some try to trivialise the matter is exactly why Pakistan is in the state that it's in.

 

[Star_Coffee]

Precisely this, I can't believe someone can respond to my post in relation to this fact with "let's not insult civilized Pakistani with a minority of pro- Mumtaz thugs on the street". The fact that some try to trivialise the matter is exactly why Pakistan is in the state that it's in.

Does secularism prevent "rape crimes"?

your added comment is a separate discussion and we can discuss that, most likely majority of the people on this forum would agree that Pro-Mumtaz thugs are thugs.

 

[natkhat-shahzada]

If secularism could prevent rape crime then western countries would have had a significant decline in rape crimes, also considering their police are well trained to compare to Pakistan, it is suggested that every 2 minutes a female in the US is raped.

Harsh punishment is needed but that won't deter rape crimes.

Pakistani are highlighting this issue, you see it all over the social media - and let's not insult civilized Pakistani with a minority of pro- Mumtaz thugs on the street.

Maybe people will come out on the street to protest - I hope they do - but again, none of this will stop rape crimes - a sad reality.

It is not even debatable that rape reports are severely under reported here. In US, you have this kind of cases reported as rape too:
https://www.hbcusports.com/forums/t...ng-5-seconds-to-stop-sex-w-18-year-old.69557/

 

[Abdullah719]

CCPO Lahore says police has lead in Motorway rape case, culprits will be arrested soon

(Karachi) CCPO Lahore Omar Shaikh has said that the police got a lead in Motorway rape incident and the case would be resolved soon. Omar said his sympathies are with the victim and her family and the accused will be punished at all costs.

Addressing a press conference in Lahore hours after people criticised him for blaming the victim for the incident, Shaikh said that the tragic incident occurred within a limit of three to four kilometers.

He said that DNA samples of suspected persons have been taken and sent for examination. The CCPO said that the police have gathered evidence and blood samples from the site of the incident and investigation is being carried out at a fast pace.

“We are focussing on CCTV footages to nab the culprits behind the gory incident,” Shaikh added.

Speaking on the occasion, Special Assistant to PM ON Accountability Shahzad Akbar said: “We condemn the Motorway incident and it is the duty of the state to punish those responsible.”

He added crime has been committed and the culprits should be brought to justice.

Earlier, the CCPO blamed the Motorway rape incident on the victim in an interview to a private TV channel.

He said that the woman should have not travelled alone and taken the GT Road route which has population on both sides. Shaikh also stated the victim should have checked the fuel in her car before travelling as there is no petrol station on the Motorway.

The CCPO’s comments were promptly condemned on social media for blaming the victim and putting the onus of preventing a crime on the victim instead of the perpetrators or law enforcement authorities.

On September 9, a woman was allegedly gang raped during a robbery bid in Gujjarpura along the recently inaugurated Lahore-Sialkot Motorway. The new Motorway currently has no rest stops or service stations as of yet.

Police said the victim was travelling with her children in a car when the vehicle stalled due to lack of petrol. She called a relative and sent him her location on the Motorway. When the relative arrived at the location, he saw the victim driving the car towards them with broken window panes.

The woman told police that she was waiting for the family to arrive to pick her and the children when two armed assailants allegedly attacked her.

One suspect hit the car with clubs and the other held them hostage at gunpoint. The attackers then took her and the children to a nearby forested area where the victim claims they gang raped her. Later on, they robbed her of valuables and left her stranded.

Meanwhile, at least 12 men have been taken into custody over their suspected involvement in the rape.

https://www.brecorder.com/news/4001...rway-rape-case-culprits-will-be-arrested-soon

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Even after getting bashed the whole day for his remarks, he is not letting go of victim blaming. Worse yet this time he mentioned “Because she is a french National, that’s why she did it, she thought she is in France” <br>Absolute bonkers<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/RemoveCCPOLahore?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#RemoveCCPOLahore</a> <a href="https://t.co/HaJi74ySI9">pic.twitter.com/HaJi74ySI9</a></p>— Zameer Maan (@ZameerMaan) <a href="https://twitter.com/ZameerMaan/status/1304071511175766017?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 10, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[ahmedzee]

posters here think govt cant be blamed, but if the CCPO gives such statement and the CCPO is a political appointment than govt will be bashed. Especially for such idiotic statements.

The lady contacted the police. She contacted motorway police for godsake. If the jurisdiction doesn't fal under motorway couldn't they forward the complain to some other department that could had helped the lady.

The govt should be blamed here because the police force can't coordinate with each other. Why dont they have patrol cars on this section of the road?

I wonder if you blame the govt back when PML-N and your beloved PPP was incharge. Rapes happened back then too. So kindly keep your nonsensical politics out of this. Seems like there is zero empathy and you just want to score some political points.

Terrible incident nonetheless and I hope and pray those animals are brought to justice.

 

[Star_Coffee]

It is not even debatable that rape reports are severely under reported here. In US, you have this kind of cases reported as rape too:
https://www.hbcusports.com/forums/t...ng-5-seconds-to-stop-sex-w-18-year-old.69557/

not arguing that is under-reported, I completely acknowledge that.


Does secularism prevent rape crime despite having better police, laws, cameras, highways, or whatever etc?

My initial argument - rape crimes will continue to happen despite harsh laws - not only we need to change the laws but we also need to teach our female how to protect themselves - if this statement upset you and trigger you and response is, " why do female have to be taught how to protect themselves and make them aware of the situation, men should control themselves then you are wishing for an ideal world that does not exist" - and you are part of the problem.

and you can't be serious using that as an example to support your argument.

 

[Major]

Does secularism prevent "rape crimes"?

your added comment is a separate discussion and we can discuss that, most likely majority of the people on this forum would agree that Pro-Mumtaz thugs are thugs.

it does.

Because the state religion of Pakistan is Islam, people interpret their own meanings of Islam into their daily lives. Majority of the people dont allow their children to study in co-education as they think on religious term. They think if they study together they would haram acts.

What happens eventually is by University time both genders dont know how to behave with each other or interact. I know people in university who stare women in a very obvious fashion that creeps many girls out.

Alot of madarassah teachers end up raping or molesting little boys because they have never met girls or werent allowed to interact with them when growing up.
I read alot on Afghanistan and their culture of bacha bazi. Most of them had said that they couldn't get interact with female and had to do stuff with children.

Do you know why people do stuff with children? Because women have no hair and have soft skin, so such people prey on those those male children which do not have hair which means they have soft skin.

Secularism would prevent alot of rape crimes, especially in madarassahs.

 

[Star_Coffee]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Even after getting bashed the whole day for his remarks, he is not letting go of victim blaming. Worse yet this time he mentioned “Because she is a french National, that’s why she did it, she thought she is in France” <br>Absolute bonkers<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/RemoveCCPOLahore?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#RemoveCCPOLahore</a> <a href="https://t.co/HaJi74ySI9">pic.twitter.com/HaJi74ySI9</a></p>— Zameer Maan (@ZameerMaan) <a href="https://twitter.com/ZameerMaan/status/1304071511175766017?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 10, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Now, this is a stupid comment from him.

 

[natkhat-shahzada]

It's time for Pakistan to leave PPP, PML-N and PTI in the dumps and vote for AWP.

AWP really doesn't stand a chance. Their solution only exists in utopian world. While I like Ammar Rashid and wished him to win last general elections but AWP getting a single seat is next to impossible in next few decades in Pakistan.

On the contrary, I think, if Pakistan has to avoid the extremism path then IK is the only real practical hope. Because if he fails then only Mullahs are left to be tested because I don't see PPP coming in power and PML-N is not a progressive party.

The liberal parties (PPP, ANP and MQM) in Pakistan have been indulged in corrupt practices + failed to dliver and that is the sad reality which I have accepted. My personal views don't align with IK on many things but I really hope that he gets successful because I don't want military or mullah ruling over us.

 

[Star_Coffee]

it does.

Because the state religion of Pakistan is Islam, people interpret their own meanings of Islam into their daily lives. Majority of the people dont allow their children to study in co-education as they think on religious term. They think if they study together they would haram acts.

What happens eventually is by University time both genders dont know how to behave with each other or interact. I know people in university who stare women in a very obvious fashion that creeps many girls out.

Alot of madarassah teachers end up raping or molesting little boys because they have never met girls or werent allowed to interact with them when growing up.
I read alot on Afghanistan and their culture of bacha bazi. Most of them had said that they couldn't get interact with female and had to do stuff with children.

Do you know why people do stuff with children? Because women have no hair and have soft skin, so such people prey on those those male children which do not have hair which means they have soft skin.

Secularism would prevent alot of rape crimes, especially in madarassahs.

You believe secularism laws would stop people from being religious?

Almost every university in Pakistan co-education.

 

[Major]

I wonder if you blame the govt back when PML-N and your beloved PPP was incharge. Rapes happened back then too. So kindly keep your nonsensical politics out of this. Seems like there is zero empathy and you just want to score some political points.

Terrible incident nonetheless and I hope and pray those animals are brought to justice.

plz do bother to read the statement of the political appointed cop, only that you would understand the reference.

 

[Major]

You believe secularism laws would stop people from being religious?

it will allow people to integrate. Not worship the female as some sort of a Hoor when the male has his first interaction with a female in university.

Alot of poor kids would be saved from being molested.

 

[natkhat-shahzada]

not arguing that is under-reported, I completely acknowledge that.


Does secularism prevent rape crime despite having better police, laws, cameras, highways, or whatever etc?

My initial argument - rape crimes will continue to happen despite harsh laws - not only we need to change the laws but we also need to teach our female how to protect themselves - if this statement upset you and trigger you and response is, " why do female have to be taught how to protect themselves and make them aware of the situation, men should control themselves then you are wishing for an ideal world that does not exist" - and you are part of the problem.

and you can't be serious using that as an example to support your argument.

Please don't put your words in my mouth based on your hypothetical assumptions.

Firstly, I gave you an example because you were comparing apples with oranges.

Your initial argument did not trigger but your support for CCPO is not OK for me. Try to understand the gravity of the situation & under no circumstances, it was a responsible statement for which he should be questioned and maybe sacked even.

I have already agreed that awareness is a good thing and I am not contesting you on that.

I am done for now. You carry on!

 

[Major]

AWP really doesn't stand a chance. Their solution only exists in utopian world. While I like Ammar Rashid and wished him to win last general elections but AWP getting a single seat is next to impossible in next few decades in Pakistan.

On the contrary, I think, if Pakistan has to avoid the extremism path then IK is the only real practical hope. Because if he fails then only Mullahs are left to be tested because I don't see PPP coming in power and PML-N is not a progressive party.

The liberal parties (PPP, ANP and MQM) in Pakistan have been indulged in corrupt practices + failed to dliver and that is the sad reality which I have accepted. My personal views don't align with IK on many things but I really hope that he gets successful because I don't want military or mullah ruling over us.

mullah won't rule. One good thing about Pakistan is that they collectively hate the Mullah and dont allow it win votes.

Imran's future will depend on these 12 months. Corona has led to many people unemployed and inflation has rised, so if he successfully helps the awaam in the next 24 months he could be re-elected. His performance would matter in the next 24-36 months.

PPP hasn;t put up a show as opposition yet, and if they want to win they have to do lead in opposition and prove themselves.

 

[Star_Coffee]

it will allow people to integrate. Not worship the female as some sort of a Hoor when the male has his first interaction with a female in university.

A lot of poor kids would be saved from being molested.

Again, it may have an impact but it won't completely eliminate the issue - and I agree with that - as child molestation continues to exist in a secular country.

And let's not get upset for highlighting the ignorance of someone who makes a blanket statement such as Islam is a problem.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Look at western secular countries or even one of the most developed Muslim countries such as Turkey, what do they all have in common? They're all secular and are far more established in ensuring law and order is less comprised.

What they all have in common is a population which is a century ahead of the subcontinental mindset. Europe was where Pakistan is 100 years ago, they went through a cultural evolution where church influence gradually declined. In Turkey secular law was imposed, so I suppose that is one direction Pakistan could take. But as I said, what you really need is the laws to be implemented whether you want to call it religious law or secular. Pakistan's problem is that no one has any trust that justice is not for sale.

 

[Star_Coffee]

Please don't put your words in my mouth based on your hypothetical assumptions.

Firstly, I gave you an example because you were comparing apples with oranges.

Your initial argument did not trigger but your support for CCPO is not OK for me. Try to understand the gravity of the situation & under no circumstances, it was a responsible statement for which he should be questioned and maybe sacked even.

I have already agreed that awareness is a good thing and I am not contesting you on that.

I am done for now. You carry on!

I didn't support him, I supported his comment (that is the mistake is being made by usually those who have political or religious agenda) about taking every precaution as a female because I do believe that ideal world does not exist.

 

[saeedhk]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Even after getting bashed the whole day for his remarks, he is not letting go of victim blaming. Worse yet this time he mentioned “Because she is a french National, that’s why she did it, she thought she is in France” <br>Absolute bonkers<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/RemoveCCPOLahore?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#RemoveCCPOLahore</a> <a href="https://t.co/HaJi74ySI9">pic.twitter.com/HaJi74ySI9</a></p>— Zameer Maan (@ZameerMaan) <a href="https://twitter.com/ZameerMaan/status/1304071511175766017?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 10, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

He reminds me of the average Pakistani! He says Pakistani society is very safe! Delusional!

 

[Abdullah719]

He reminds me of the average Pakistani! He says Pakistani society is very safe! Delusional!

There was another video where he was saying the exact opposite. He was saying something along the lines of “women need to be careful because this is how our society is.”

 

[saeedhk]

You need to fist decide who you want to blame Islam or Muslims of Pakistan.

How is that related to my post. I replied to your post where you claimed Pakistanis are tolerant and civilised.

 

[Kianig89]

Public hanging
Should be considered drastic measures are req. BUT once again political parties showing their black face with one major party against Public hanging we need radical decisions otherwise society will deteriorate further

 

[MenInG]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="ur" dir="rtl">یوسف آپ نے باکل ٹھیک کہا، یہ ہی حقیقت ہے! <a href="https://t.co/LhOV6PUkrX">https://t.co/LhOV6PUkrX</a></p>— Shahid Afridi (@SAfridiOfficial) <a href="https://twitter.com/SAfridiOfficial/status/1304093885531131904?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 10, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[MenInG]

What is really saddening is that people busy in making political points and seems to very little words on sympathy for the victims.

 

[Syed1]

What is really saddening is that people busy in making political points and seems to very little words on sympathy for the victims.

It started after a certain hall of famer entered the thread and tried to pin all blame on PM.

 

[MenInG]

It started after a certain hall of famer entered the thread and tried to pin all blame on PM.

Then that is disgusting and shame on him.

 

[watson367]

Pakistani society falling to a new low. If this can happen on a national highway, no woman in the country would feel safe. Media channels and Islamic Institutions need to educate the awaam on Women's Rights, not the bakwaas they are preaching currently. Duas with the victim and her family.

 

[Major]

<iframe src="https://www.facebook.com/plugins/video.php?href=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fnadeemmalik%2Fvideos%2F626324391408538%2F&show_text=0&width=560" width="560" height="420" style="borderne;overflow:hidden" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowTransparency="true" allowFullScreen="true"></iframe>

beautifully put by Nadeem Malik. Made valid points and must listen.

 

[Major]

What is really saddening is that people busy in making political points and seems to very little words on sympathy for the victims.

political parties are not at fault for what has happened?
The police reforms, the political appointment of a CCPO who has bad performance review from intelligence reports. The failure of motorway police to act upon.

Had the CCPO not made stupid remarks on tv, this might have not become a political issue, but the CCPO has bought alot of criticism on the government aswell, especially the punjab govt who appointted him

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

Reading this whole thread, I’ve come to the conclusion that Pakistanis don’t give a **** if it means rethinking their party allegiances.

 

[Bigboii]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Even after getting bashed the whole day for his remarks, he is not letting go of victim blaming. Worse yet this time he mentioned “Because she is a french National, that’s why she did it, she thought she is in France” <br>Absolute bonkers<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/RemoveCCPOLahore?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#RemoveCCPOLahore</a> <a href="https://t.co/HaJi74ySI9">pic.twitter.com/HaJi74ySI9</a></p>— Zameer Maan (@ZameerMaan) <a href="https://twitter.com/ZameerMaan/status/1304071511175766017?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 10, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I wish someone slap the s*** outta him for saying that

do your job idiot !!

 

[Bigboii]

I mean c'mon guys be honest

Do you REALLY think it would be different if the government was different

I don't think so

 

[Major]

I mean c'mon guys be honest

Do you REALLY think it would be different if the government was different

I don't think so

Blame does fall on the govt.

Right now there are some confusion in reports. Some are saying this happened in motorway and some are saying this happened on Ringroad.

Motorway has its own police and Ringroad police has the city police. The city police is known for being corrupt. I think posters from Lahore can vouch here that the police on ring road spends their time sitting at hotels and only do their duty when they have no money and need to bribe people on bikes.

Govt will be blamed for the police being a joke. It could had been any govt and they should had been blamed.

We are in 21st century and yet the motorway police cant coordinate with city police.
The city police should be on parole on the ringroad like the motorway police is.

Lets hope the culprits are found, because if they are not. Next thing that would be bashed is the money spent on the safe city project. Safe city also covers ring road.

 

[Star_Coffee]

Blame does fall on the govt.

Right now there are some confusion in reports. Some are saying this happened in motorway and some are saying this happened on Ringroad.

Motorway has its own police and Ringroad police has the city police. The city police is known for being corrupt. I think posters from Lahore can vouch here that the police on ring road spends their time sitting at hotels and only do their duty when they have no money and need to bribe people on bikes.

Govt will be blamed for the police being a joke. It could had been any govt and they should had been blamed.

We are in 21st century and yet the motorway police cant coordinate with city police.
The city police should be on parole on the ringroad like the motorway police is.

Lets hope the culprits are found, because if they are not. Next thing that would be bashed is the money spent on the safe city project. Safe city also covers ring road.

what brought Pakistan to this position? Past 2 years of PTI or PML-N and PPP baadshaahad?

 

[Star_Coffee]

I mean c'mon guys be honest

Do you REALLY think it would be different if the government was different

I don't think so

Probably not but the action from here taken to give her justice might be different and most of the people will disappear.

 

[Hadi Rizvi]

You can't legislate for the depths of depravity some citizens will sink to. By all means bring the death penalty if that will deter such actions, but the real questions need to be asked of the motorway police force. These are authorities which are entrusted to safeguard the people, if you can't trust them, then how could you ever expect justice?

You are correct and I did point this out in my reply to uberkoen. Law enforcement can only go so far. It's the mindset and upbringing that needs some major amendment.

However, in this specific case the authorities are at fault and an alternative form of support should've been provided but I wouldn't blame them for the rape. On another day, the husband would've arrived before the rapists and nothing would've happened. That lady was really unfortunate.

Again, I feel it has more to do with society than law enforcement. You can't expect police to be everywhere all the time.

 

[in_cutter]

Who said Islam has anything to do with it?

Tell us what Islam has to do with it?

 

[KingKhanWC]

[MENTION=43583]KingKhanWC[/MENTION] You are saying the govt isn't to be blamed, watch this video.

THIS IS THE FREAKEN CCPO of lahore who said this.

they had to change IG's for this CCPO! Imran Khan and his party should get bashed for this.

Serious question, did you study Urdu in India while you were growing up there?

The cop isnt blaming the victim, he is sending advise to all to check their vehicle before travelling at night. This is common sense even a father would say to their child and governments in the UK give the same advice here.

When you turn everything political you lose credibility. My friend it's too late, the days of PPP coming into power and looting the nation again are long, this party will never for a majority government for the rest of their time and in a decade or two will be obselete.

 

[Major]

Serious question, did you study Urdu in India while you were growing up there?

The cop isnt blaming the victim, he is sending advise to all to check their vehicle before travelling at night. This is common sense even a father would say to their child and governments in the UK give the same advice here.

When you turn everything political you lose credibility. My friend it's too late, the days of PPP coming into power and looting the nation again are long, this party will never for a majority government for the rest of their time and in a decade or two will be obselete.

we have another one who agrees with CCPO.

You should check your own urdu

 

[El Generico]

Death penalty doesn't deter people from committing evil.

It's the mindset of the nation that needs to change.

We get triggered when it comes to relatively meaningless matters like "blasphemy", as we've been accustomed to seeing with the protests from the pro-Mumtaz Qadri crowd who swarm around, blocking the streets of every major city in Pakistan.

When it comes to major issues like rape and etc, hardly anyone in Pakistan bats an eyelid.

This is why uniting a nation by religion doesn't work. A secular Pakistan is what's needed for us to progress as a nation.

Hasn't case been the top trend on Pakistan social media as well as the mainstream media? Its seems like the case has shaken up a lot of people in Pakistan. How does that equate to not "batting an eye lid"?

 

[Bigboii]

Probably not but the action from here taken to give her justice might be different and most of the people will disappear.

SS also made sure that justice in high profile cases is served and criminals are handed over to courts

but can PTI bring systematic changes ( I dont think so )

On second thought even if they try I wish they don't because their buffoonery will make the problem worse

I am pretty sure these PTI ministers are so incompetent that even their mothers cant trust them to bring dahi

So expecting these fickle minded individuals to bring major administrative reform is like asking a monkey to sing you a song

Everything they touch turns into dust so don't even try to do anything they'll make the problem worse

 

[Major]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Even after getting bashed the whole day for his remarks, he is not letting go of victim blaming. Worse yet this time he mentioned “Because she is a french National, that’s why she did it, she thought she is in France” <br>Absolute bonkers<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/RemoveCCPOLahore?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#RemoveCCPOLahore</a> <a href="https://t.co/HaJi74ySI9">pic.twitter.com/HaJi74ySI9</a></p>— Zameer Maan (@ZameerMaan) <a href="https://twitter.com/ZameerMaan/status/1304071511175766017?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 10, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[MENTION=43583]KingKhanWC[/MENTION]

 

[El Generico]

Serious question, did you study Urdu in India while you were growing up there?

The cop isnt blaming the victim, he is sending advise to all to check their vehicle before travelling at night. This is common sense even a father would say to their child and governments in the UK give the same advice here.

When you turn everything political you lose credibility. My friend it's too late, the days of PPP coming into power and looting the nation again are long, this party will never for a majority government for the rest of their time and in a decade or two will be obselete.

That wasn't the time for those comments though. Nothing wrong with telling people to take precautions but his timing and tone are what caused the entire issue.

And now he has doubled down with his idiotic France comments. This guy doesn't seem capable of handling such a sensitive issue.

 

[Star_Coffee]

SS also made sure that justice in high profile cases is served and criminals are handed over to courts

but can PTI bring systematic changes ( I dont think so )

On second thought even if they try I wish they don't because their buffoonery will make the problem worse

I am pretty sure these PTI ministers are so incompetent that even their mothers cant trust them to bring dahi

So expecting these fickle minded individuals to bring major administrative reform is like asking a monkey to sing you a song

Everything they touch turns into dust so don't even try to do anything they'll make the problem worse

Reforms take years.

What's pathetic about is that some individuals on this thread trying to score political points are accusing others of blaming the victim while simply highlighting the world is not perfect.

Plenty of my female friends carry a knife or pepper spray, in an ideal world, it shouldn't be this way, but sadly, this is how it is.

 

[ahmedzee]

plz do bother to read the statement of the political appointed cop, only that you would understand the reference.

He's an idiot, no doubt. But my question is, can a govt really do something to stop rapes? There are many forms of it that happens int he west. Yes, an incident like this should not happen, but why do you blame a 2 year old govt and not many previous govts for numerous rapes done in the past. I know you and this other poster would go to any lengths to blame this current govt due to the affiliations with PPP. So again, why score such political points when you didn't post jack when there were incidents during PPP govt (even the present situation in KHI).

 

[KingKhanWC]

That wasn't the time for those comments though. Nothing wrong with telling people to take precautions but his timing and tone are what caused the entire issue.

And now he has doubled down with his idiotic France comments. This guy doesn't seem capable of handling such a sensitive issue.

If you watch Crimewatch in the UK, its aim is to catch criminals who are still on the run. Often in the past rape victims have appeared on screen, with police giving advise to women including check your vehicle before you head off. The programme ended with 'Dont have nightmares, sleep well'.

This is normal for police and nowhere did he justify or blame the victim.

Tbh Its pathetic to even defend this simple logical statement.

 

[Major]

He's an idiot, no doubt. But my question is, can a govt really do something to stop rapes? There are many forms of it that happens int he west. Yes, an incident like this should not happen, but why do you blame a 2 year old govt and not many previous govts for numerous rapes done in the past. I know you and this other poster would go to any lengths to blame this current govt due to the affiliations with PPP. So again, why score such political points when you didn't post jack when there were incidents during PPP govt (even the present situation in KHI).

The Marwah case was sad, and PPP should be blamed for it. For not being able to protect a small child. They should be bashed for the sindh police. THey should be bashed for not having a child kidnapping help line that could act immediately.
I really feel sorry for that childs mother having to come on a morning show just to get justice for her small child who only went out to buy biscuits.

Every govt is to be blamed whenever our law enforcement fails. PTI might be two years old, but it takes only one damn order to make sure your men are patrolling the Ring Road.

 

[KingKhanWC]

we have another one who agrees with CCPO.

You should check your own urdu

Of course I agree women should check their vehicles, its the same advise we give to women in our family or even men. Nobody wants a female sister left stranded on a road, it's dangerous.

Come up with something a little more intelligent if you want to blame PTI for a crime in Pakistan. Also show some evidence to compare such crimes under PTI in the last 2 years and the same for PPP. The police were far more corrupt under the theif Zardari, we both know this.

 

[Major]

Every nation see such disgusting tragedies. Take India rape and abuse of women is rampant, no other continent cant even compare let along another nation. UK has so many peados, mainly elderly white men but gives them weak sentences if they get caught. Or the US, Bill Clintion and Trump were friends with a peado pimp and are refusing to help in bringing to light his crimes.

Pakistan as nation does have issues with mysogony but not sure about your personal life but in my family women are given the highest status, they make the rules. Seeing women as lesser humans is a big issue worldwide. Not sure why you dont get your family and move, sure you'll have to pay taxes ...

Matriarchy is only achieved in Pakistani households when the women has attain a certain age.
In Pakistan, even a male kid gets special status.

 

[Major]

Of course I agree women should check their vehicles, its the same advise we give to women in our family or even men. Nobody wants a female sister left stranded on a road, it's dangerous.

Come up with something a little more intelligent if you want to blame PTI for a crime in Pakistan. Also show some evidence to compare such crimes under PTI in the last 2 years and the same for PPP. The police were far more corrupt under the theif Zardari, we both know this.

The guy victim blamed, but you are gonna pretend he was advising her.. nice.
He even went on about how she is french and she did it cause of that.

Read the statements, these are coming from an official police wala.

So police has become less corrupt now under this govt.

Ring Road comes under this CCPO, if there was no paroling of police, the govt would be blamed because they appointed this lunatic who has already blamed the victim for the rape.

Btw, lets hope they get CCTV footage because under the safe city camera project, ringroad comes under it aswell.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Matriarchy is only achieved in Pakistani households when the women has attain a certain age.
In Pakistan, even a male kid gets special status.

I agree this is an issue, moms wil want their daughters to cook while their sons cant make a drink for themselves. However the culture in the UK isnt much different, women are looked up, whistled, shouted rude words etc. Girls arent given teh same love as boys too, not as bad as Pakistan but the issue is not only in one culture.

 

[Major]

Very good statement by Ali Muhammad Khan of PTI.

He has asked CCPO lahore to be removed and has condemned the statement by the CCPO. He has demanded his own govt.

 

[Major]

<iframe src="https://www.facebook.com/plugins/video.php?href=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fnadeemmalik%2Fvideos%2F822475645163918%2F&show_text=0&width=560" width="560" height="420" style="borderne;overflow:hidden" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowTransparency="true" allowFullScreen="true"></iframe>


This is worth watching

 

[KingKhanWC]

The guy victim blamed, but you are gonna pretend he was advising her.. nice.
He even went on about how she is french and she did it cause of that.

Read the statements, these are coming from an official police wala.

So police has become less corrupt now under this govt.

Ring Road comes under this CCPO, if there was no paroling of police, the govt would be blamed because they appointed this lunatic who has already blamed the victim for the rape.

Btw, lets hope they get CCTV footage because under the safe city camera project, ringroad comes under it aswell.

You want to believe he was blaming the victim but it's obvious from his language and frustration he was warning others. Read my other post, this is normal for police in the UK. In fact they give victims leaflets on how to keep themselves safe going foward which include such statements.

Police have become less corrupt everyone knows this. I used be asked for bribes but not now under Imran. I was stopped once when Imran first came into power, I told the cop Ive come to see New Pakistan, he smiled and agreed.

 

[Major]

You want to believe he was blaming the victim but it's obvious from his language and frustration he was warning others. Read my other post, this is normal for police in the UK. In fact they give victims leaflets on how to keep themselves safe going foward which include such statements.

Police have become less corrupt everyone knows this. I used be asked for bribes but not now under Imran. I was stopped once when Imran first came into power, I told the cop Ive come to see New Pakistan, he smiled and agreed.

He was victim blaming, everyone on social media is angry, infact even PTI ministers have asked for his resignation due to the dumb statement he has been giving. Watch the video above this post.

Police hasn't become less corrupt. They are still the same as they were before. Be it police or govt department officials.
WHen eid days are near, you should see how the police operates.

 

[KingKhanWC]

He was victim blaming, everyone on social media is angry, infact even PTI ministers have asked for his resignation due to the dumb statement he has been giving. Watch the video above this post.

Police hasn't become less corrupt. They are still the same as they were before. Be it police or govt department officials.
WHen eid days are near, you should see how the police operates.

I was there the night before Eid when stopped. I assume they were checking for drugs as they went through my cigarattes.

Which ministers? Please post a link to their statements, maybe they know something more one short snippet on the video? Social media means nothing.