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MS Dhoni is better than Michael Bevan - He is the BEST finisher of the game

Mamoon_Ghaffar said:
As usual people suffering from nostalgia. Bevan was awesome but Dhoni is far better.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but Bevan won a match with over a 100 needed at more than a run a ball, batting with the tail, in a crucial match.

Anyways, I don't rate yesterday's innings, it was not good, even Dhoni would admit that he probably shouldn't have taken it to the last over, and should not have exposed the tail-enders for entire overs to Malinga. However, for everything before this match, he deserves to be ranked among the great finishers, but just a notch below Bevan
 
Garuda said:
Actually, if you see most of the time he takes it to 49th over and not 50th (with exception like yesterday).

After 47th over, he targets the over which is bowled by the least experienced bowler. So it can be 48 or 49. By 50th over he most of the times would have already won or needing less than 10.
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Anyway it's risky.. I watched that game against Aus where India needed 13 of 4 (at one point, India needed less than run-a-ball around 35 runs or so)...

What if Dhoni could not hit that six of McKay, 13 of 4 is almost a lost cause...credit to him that he did.. but if he could not hit that six, he would have been blamed and we wouldn't be talking about him as a great finisher.. the point is it covered his earlier mistake of allowing the game to drift away.
 
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Reverselap said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Bevan won a match with over a 100 needed at more than a run a ball, batting with the tail, in a crucial match.

Anyways, I don't rate yesterday's innings, it was not good, even Dhoni would admit that he probably shouldn't have taken it to the last over, and should not have exposed the tail-enders for entire overs to Malinga. However, for everything before this match, he deserves to be ranked among the great finishers, but just a notch below Bevan
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It was a very good innings.. it can't be bad just because he took it to the last over.. while his decision can be argued, calling the innings not good enough is perhaps off the mark.
 
Dhoni is better than Bevan. He is the BEST finisher in the game

Reverselap said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Bevan won a match with over a 100 needed at more than a run a ball, batting with the tail, in a crucial match.

Anyways, I don't rate yesterday's innings, it was not good, even Dhoni would admit that he probably shouldn't have taken it to the last over, and should not have exposed the tail-enders for entire overs to Malinga. However, for everything before this match, he deserves to be ranked among the great finishers, but just a notch below Bevan
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I remember the knock. But Dhoni's frequency of match winning knocks is better.
 
Mamoon_Ghaffar said:
I remember the knock. But Dhoni's frequency of match winning knocks is better.
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That alone doesn't make him "definitely" better than Bevan, does it ? Bevan played some match saving innings in WC 99, 2003.. some of the really lost causes he won..

Dhoni will take some more such innings to go definitely past Bevan, he has just edged ahead at the moment.
 
vicky_iisc said:
That alone doesn't make him "definitely" better than Bevan, does it ? Bevan played some match saving innings in WC 99, 2003.. some of the really lost causes he won..

Dhoni will take some more such innings to go definitely past Bevan, he has just edged ahead at the moment.
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Why are you so on and on about Bevan? I have seen Bevan most of his career. The only special about him was the ease at which he used to rotate the strike. He didnt used to score too many boundaries but still maintained a very good strike rate. At the time that was pretty special as we haven't seen anything similar in past.

Dhoni is altogether different beast. He plans who to target, when to target and can blast any bowler right from Steyn to Eranga.
 
The only props Dhoni has over Bevan is that he's also captain.

Though I'll argue again, with regards to yesterday's match, that India should have been chasing around 150, and should not have bowled 9 overs of part timers.

That aside, it wasn't a great knock, but it won the match, so I agree, I can't call it bad.

Poorly paced might be the right word, but it showed Dhoni's reliance on singles and doubles. He should not have played this match though, and I argue this on ethics. India got a replacement for him in the squad, so wasn't he technically out of the squad? Never heard of someone coming back for a final before
 
bin_pendi_ka_lota said:
Why are you so on and on about Bevan? I have seen Bevan most of his career. The only special about him was the ease at which he used to rotate the strike. He didnt used to score too many boundaries but still maintained a very good strike rate. At the time that was pretty special as we haven't seen anything similar in past.

Dhoni is altogether different beast. He plans who to target, when to target and can blast any bowler right from Steyn to Eranga.
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As if Bevan did not plan his innings.. and target who to hit.. come on.. don't give qualities of a player as if he alone had them.

And to say that only special about Bevan was his rotation of strike is a huge understatement.
 
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I have seen Bevan his whole career and is one of my favorite.

But he was no where better than Dhoni. If the requirement is over 8 RPO with another 15 overs to go, I will pick Dhoni any day of the week and he will do it 7 - 10 times.

Bevan was dependent on some hits from other sides to keep the RRR under control.

In terms of number of matches won from difficult situations, I will pick Dhoni.

One can argue why Dhoni takes it to last over by making it more worse situation. I can argue that the bowlers are on top when wickets are falling and there are 60 more runs to get. He takes it to last couple of overs when the bowlers also feel the pressure and its lesser runs to take risk and go wild. It is a gamble but he is a master of playing it than others. He plays with opposition's mind this way and most of the time he manage to get the success doing it.
 
Garuda said:
I have seen Bevan his whole career and is one of my favorite.

But he was no where better than Dhoni. If the requirement is over 8 RPO with another 15 overs to go, I will pick Dhoni any day of the week and he will do it 7 - 10 times.

Bevan was dependent on some hits from other sides to keep the RRR under control.

In terms of number of matches won from difficult situations, I will pick Dhoni.

One can argue why Dhoni takes it to last over by making it more worse situation. I can argue that the bowlers are on top when wickets are falling and there are 60 more runs to get. He takes it to last couple of overs when the bowlers also feel the pressure and its lesser runs to take risk and go wild. It is a gamble but he is a master of playing it than others. He plays with opposition's mind this way and most of the time he manage to get the success doing it.
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Not all greatness in ODIs is judged by required run rate ability.. that's all I can say. Dhoni is a better pick when 8 RPO is the requirement.. but not all ODI matches require that..

Bevan was a different kind of ODI great.. we should not compare him with Dhoni on SR.. there is no comparison.
 
vicky_iisc said:
As if Bevan did not plan his innings.. and target who to hit..come on.. don't give qualities of a player as if he alone had them.

And to say that only special about Bevan was his rotation of strike is a huge understatement.
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No he used to score evenly. Rarely he needed to score a boundary or six.
The ability to rotate strike shouldn't be looked down upon. He was best at it. However this policy works very well when you have a player on the other side who can add value to this by his batting ability. And allmost whole of the aussie team was good at that.
 
Moh@n said:
Dhoni is just plain lucky. It just takes a deeper look at the scorecard.

1. The 8th Indian wicket fell on the fifth ball of the 42nd over. At that time, India required 35 runs in 49 balls (RR less than 4 per over). Now Dhoni still manages to get this to 15 off 5 balls!! Thankfully for India, it was an inexperienced Eranga who bowled the last over.

2. Out of those 49 balls (after the fall of the 8th wicket), Dhoni lets the number 10 and 11 face 23 balls (almost 50% of the strike).

3. What was the logic behind dropping your best pace bowler for the final and play a hack like Vinay Kumar instead? If Umesh really needed rest, why couldn't he be rested earlier in the tournament?
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Dhoni sure is a lucky fella (cricket gods seem to be a big Dhoni fan :msd) but there's a method to the madness as well. He knows what he's doing. Might not work all the time but seems to work 90%+ of the time so what ever he's doing is clearly working for him and India. A very special player.
 
I think he went past Bevan some time ago. Definitely in the top 3 all time ODI players list as far as I'm concerned (Viv and Sachin being the other two). Will prolly end up at no 2 when he calls it a day I reckon. Maybe even number one if he can keep doing this for a few more years and win another WC.
 
bin_pendi_ka_lota said:
Who else whould have Bowled that last over?
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If it was an experienced bowler like Malinga or even Herath, 15 from the last over would not have been easy as it turned out to be. So Mathews should have ideally finished off with Eranga when the number 10 and 11 were on strike and just looking to defend.

bin_pendi_ka_lota said:
Yes , Because all they needed was to defend their wicket. It was a 11 vs 1 contest.
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Since when do we have confidence in our number 10 and 11 to defend their wicket? Remember India v Zimbabwe in 1999 WC? Old example but just saying. Our tailenders have never been known for their batting.

bin_pendi_ka_lota said:
:facepalm: Buvaneshwar has been the best pacer for us..... Vinay is similar. I cant justify why Ishant played but replacing Umesh with Vinay is no brainer
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Vinay is similar to Bhuvi? :facepalm: Since when? Atleast their stats don't suggest so.

Replacing Umesh with Vinay might have been a no brainer is some of the league games, not in the final.
 
Moh@n said:
If it was an experienced bowler like Malinga or even Herath, 15 from the last over would not have been easy as it turned out to be. So Mathews should have ideally finished off with Eranga when the number 10 and 11 were on strike and just looking to defend.
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Yeah no doubt it would have been the wise thing to do. Matthews simply didn't have the cojones to bowl the last over. Eranga was murdered by even Bopara in the final over just a couple of weeks ago in the CT (went for around 25 or something). Any one can be a captain but not everyone can be a leader. Having said that though Dhoni can take any one apart when he's in the zone.
 
Moh@n said:
If it was an experienced bowler like Malinga or even Herath, 15 from the last over would not have been easy as it turned out to be. So Mathews should have ideally finished off with Eranga when the number 10 and 11 were on strike and just looking to defend.



Since when do we have confidence in our number 10 and 11 to defend their wicket? Remember India v Zimbabwe in 1999 WC? Old example but just saying. Our tailenders have never been known for their batting.



Vinay is similar to Bhuvi? :facepalm: Since when? Atleast their stats don't suggest so.

Replacing Umesh with Vinay might have been a no brainer is some of the league games, not in the final.
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Hindsight is bliss.Wodda Couldaa means nothing...

Have you forgotten how Dhoni took apart Steyn in IPL or How Malinga managed to beat Sir Ravindra Jadeja in giving 4 byes in that CT game....


As for as selection of Vinay over Umesh, In the conditions it was justified. Look at Umesh stats since CT. However Selection of Ishant over Umesh is where their is a case of conversaion.
 
sachjinn said:
I hope Sanath is No 4 or 5 at least for you as so many seem to ignore the bald man.
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Sana was another special player but hard to put him over guys like Bevan, Gilly and Ponting though. Man I miss the fella :))
 
vicky_iisc said:
Not all greatness in ODIs is judged by required run rate ability.. that's all I can say. Dhoni is a better pick when 8 RPO is the requirement.. but not all ODI matches require that..

Bevan was a different kind of ODI great.. we should not compare him with Dhoni on SR.. there is no comparison.
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Its not the only thing but a major thing.

ODI doesn't care about wickets lost. It's all about runs in a limited over. So RRR or SR with an good average is the major factor.

Two player can chase well and take the team to finish line.

One's chase % reduces when RRR is increased to 8 while the other can still do it. Isn't the second better than first when we are talking about chasing and finishing ?


What do you mean by different kind of player ? every one is something different to them. Does that make them better than others ?
 
Dhoni is better than Bevan. He is the BEST finisher in the game

SL_Fan said:
Sana was another special player but hard to put him over guys like Bevan, Gilly and Ponting though. Man I miss the fella :))
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Perera is the new Sana :akhtar
 
Garuda said:
Its not the only thing but a major thing.

ODI doesn't care about wickets lost. It's all about runs in a limited over. So RRR or SR with an good average is the major factor.

Two player can chase well and take the team to finish line.

One's chase % reduces when RRR is increased to 8 while the other can still do it. Isn't the second better than first when we are talking about chasing and finishing ?


What do you mean by different kind of player ? every one is something different to them. Does that make them better than others ?
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By different kind.. means.. I have seen Bevan rescue Australia many times even when RPO required was not that much and wickets were lost.. look at 2003 WC matches..

There is a reason Bevan was called ATG in ODIs by all.. and he was never a dasher.. was never as good as some of the others who could blast it .. there must be something with him to still be called the best ODI batsman of that era and finisher all time..
 
Amla, ABD and Dhoni probably the best ODI batsman of this generation.

Dhoni best finished no doubt. Only a crazy man would choose anyone over Dhoni to be at the crease when you need 50 of 6 overs with 3 wickets lett
 
SL_Fan said:
Yeah no doubt it would have been the wise thing to do. Matthews simply didn't have the cojones to bowl the last over. Eranga was murdered by even Bopara in the final over just a couple of weeks ago in the CT (went for around 25 or something). Any one can be a captain but not everyone can be a leader. Having said that though Dhoni can take any one apart when he's in the zone.
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Dhoni would have gone after Eranga whichever over he would have bowled.

There were 3 overs left. One from Malinga, one from Mathews and one from Eranga.

Dhoni would have attacked Eranga as he was prone to pressure due to being least experienced.
 
vicky_iisc said:
By different kind.. means.. I have seen Bevan rescue Australia many times even when RPO required was not that much and wickets were lost.. look at 2003 WC matches..
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I have seen Bevan his entire career. There are more example with Dhoni too. Why do you say Bevan is better?

There is a reason Bevan was called ATG in ODIs by all.. and he was never a dasher.. was never as good as some of the others who could blast it .. there must be something with him to still be called the best ODI batsman of that era and finisher all time..
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What is that reason except that he is retired. If he was playing now he would have been no where better than Dhoni.

As someone mentioned your bold things are just sounding nostalgic.

People always says how great past songs or movies were. But they forget that ppl only remember the great movies from the past. They forget there were a lot of trash was also getting created. Similarly in today's days there are some great movies/songs being created.
 
Sultan Yusuf said:
Dhoni is the beneficiary of the repayment policy of a $45 million loan.
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Like I said before, sore losers everywhere.

Specially by someone who is a fan of someone who was beaten black and blue in the 1996 World Cup Quarter Final and shown his aukaad :)))
 
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Garuda said:
I have seen Bevan his entire career. There are more example with Dhoni too. Why do you say Bevan is better?



What is that reason except that he is retired. If he was playing now he would have been no where better than Dhoni.

As someone mentioned your bold things are just sounding nostalgic.

People always says how great past songs or movies were. But they forget that ppl only remember the great movies from the past. They forget there were a lot of trash was also getting created. Similarly in today's days there are some great movies/songs being created.
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I don't have all the references of Bevan's great innings ready.. I just remember the impression because I watched him play them.. now even a youtube will not help.. becasue he never was a dasher to "show" how good he was. I remember one Asia Xi Vs World Xi innings though where he was not his usual self..

No, it's not the result of appreciating the past and belittling the present.. plus as I mentioned earlier, it cuts both ways..

As per past movies or songs being great.. only good ones are remembered forever, kind of proves the point, doesn't it ?

Dhoni is great too, may be since Dhoni has not done it consistently against SA/Aus/ etc. outside India may be one such factor why I feel he still needs to do more.. but I agree there is a very minor gap b/w him and Bevan.. but if you ask me.. at this point I will rate Bevan as better albeit slightly.
 
Hitman said:
Like I said before, sore losers everywhere.

Specially by someone who is a fan of someone who was beaten black and blue in the 1996 World Cup Quarter Final and shown his aukaad :)))
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You fallen for his trap mate.
I am so sure he posted that to gain attention..but failed miserably as no one CARED :msd
 
vicky_iisc said:
I don't have all the references of Bevan's great innings ready.. I just remember the impression because I watched him play them.. now even a youtube will not help.. becasue he never was a dasher to "show" how good he was. I remember one Asia Xi Vs World Xi innings though where he was not his usual self..

No, it's not the result of appreciating the past and belittling the present.. plus as I mentioned earlier, it cuts both ways..

As per past movies or songs being great.. only good ones are remembered forever, kind of proves the point, doesn't it ?
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I have been watching live cricket since 1983 and had followed India Vs WI final live. So I have also seen Bevan's innings and I do not think he is any better. He was good but he had never chased like What Dhoni had done and in big stages.

No it doesn't prove your point. It just proves that it's nostalgia as you just remember the good ones.

Dhoni has good innings which will be remembered after 30 years too. So no your point is not proving that Bevan is better. It's just something you want others to believe as you feel it that way.


Dhoni is great too, may be since Dhoni has not done it consistently against SA/Aus/ etc. outside India may be one such factor why I feel he still needs to do more.. but I agree there is a very minor gap b/w him and Bevan.. but if you ask me.. at this point I will rate Bevan as better albeit slightly.
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Again looks good for argument. So you are not looking at what he has done rather than trying to find out what he has not done to show him lower.

Again bolded part, just your feeling. Look at your posts above. you just keep giving vague points like "There must be a reason", "He was different" etc etc which doesn't prove anything.
 
Rockstar said:
You fallen for his trap mate.
I am so sure he posted that to gain attention..but failed miserably as no one CARED :msd
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Hmm...yes, that's why you replied.

Look - my problem is not with Dhoni. It's not his fault he receives so many gifts.
 
Garuda said:
I have been watching live cricket since 1983 and had followed India Vs WI final live. So I have also seen Bevan's innings and I do not think he is any better. He was good but he had never chased like What Dhoni had done and in big stages.

No it doesn't prove your point. It just proves that it's nostalgia as you just remember the good ones.

Dhoni has good innings which will be remembered after 30 years too. So no your point is not proving that Bevan is better. It's just something you want others to believe as you feel it that way.




Again looks good for argument. So you are not looking at what he has done rather than trying to find out what he has not done to show him lower.

Again bolded part, just your feeling. Look at your posts above. you just keep giving vague points like "There must be a reason", "He was different" etc etc which doesn't prove anything.
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let us leave this prove thing.. how can I "prove" Bevan was better when the gap b/w them in my opinion is marginal ? Neither can it be proven Bevan was nothing special .. so let's leave this argument. He was not better just because he was different... I never said that.. Also I did not say it proves Bevan was better.. please read my post carefully.. how can it prove anything ?

About the other part, of appreciating the past, if only "good songs" from past are remembered, that means if some song was bad, it wouldn't be called good now, would it ? It proves the point that only good ones from the past are talked about.. not everyone from that era..

You can read a few earlier posts of mine here in this thread where I have tried to explain that the argument cuts both ways.. present is also hyped ignoring the past.. and not only past is glorified.
 
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About yesterday, does anyone think he shouldn't have come back? Maybe he should have let Virat handle the pressure of a "small" final, would hold him good stead for future big tournaments. Dhoni's not going to be around forever
 
vicky_iisc said:
let us leave this prove thing.. how can I "prove" Bevan was better when the gap b/w them in my opinion is marginal ? Neither can it be proven Bevan was nothing special .. so let's leave this argument. He was not better just because he was different... I never said that..

About the other part, of appreciating the past, if only "good songs" from past are remembered, that means if some song was bad, it wouldn't be called good now, would it ? It proves the point that only good ones from the past are talked about.. not everyone from that era..

You can read a few earlier posts of mine here in this thread where I have tried to explain that the argument cuts both ways.. present is also hyped ignoring the past.. and not only past is glorified.
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You are not getting the point.

If something was good in past doesn't mean that a good thing in present will always be less good than that.

Or if a better thing in present comes in present then the good past doesn't stay good.


Bevan was considered greatest ODI player in his era doesn't mean that there won't be anyone better in future.
 
Reverselap said:
About yesterday, does anyone think he shouldn't have come back? Maybe he should have let Virat handle the pressure of a "small" final, would hold him good stead for future big tournaments. Dhoni's not going to be around forever
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I did feel before the match. But during last over I changed my mind. :p
 
Garuda said:
I did feel before the match. But during last over I changed my mind. :p
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I feel India wouldn't be chasing 200 if Kohli was captaining. Those few overs by Kohli and Raina were vital. Had Ashwin and Jadeja been brought on earlier....

Even if we don't agree on that, Celkon Cup isn't exactly important
 
Reverselap said:
I feel India wouldn't be chasing 200 if Kohli was captaining. Those few overs by Kohli and Raina were vital. Had Ashwin and Jadeja been brought on earlier....

Even if we don't agree on that, Celkon Cup isn't exactly important
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No the cup was not important and no one would have lost his sleep over it.

But when watching the last over, there was no way I would have wanted anyone else other that Dhoni.
 
Garuda said:
You are not getting the point.

If something was good in past doesn't mean that a good thing in present will always be less good than that.

Or if a better thing in present comes in present then the good past doesn't stay good.


Bevan was considered greatest ODI player in his era doesn't mean that there won't be anyone better in future.
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Are you implying that I will use this silly logic of Bevan being the best of all time in past and future.. just because he was best that time ? irrespective of who comes in future ? Sorry, I don't base my argument on such logic.. but then I am picking him on gut feel, so you can say that..

It's just my opinion and the impression of watching both that the difference b/w them is marginal.. before WC 2011 final, I would not have rated Dhoni closer also (though he played match winning innings earlier too)..

I will say I rate Bevan slightly better just because he gave more "assurance" of safety of chase.. at that time when 100 runs run-a-ball or more was not very easy as it is now.. now this "assurance" is a feeling which can't be proven.. and I agree currently no one gives that feeling more than Dhoni... but just as I can't prove it either way.. on gut feel basis, I will rate Bevan slightly better than Dhoni at the moment.. it may change in future as Dhoni is a very calm and cool customer.. may be if you asked me after one more such innings from Dhoni against Aus/SA, I will pick Dhoni.
 
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Garuda said:
No the cup was not important and no one would have lost his sleep over it.

But when watching the last over, there was no way I would have wanted anyone else other that Dhoni.
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Which is why Kohli should have captained. It would have been Virat's cup, because after 2015, I believe Dhoni himself has said he'll retire

What then? You'll have a captain with no experience of captaining finals, even small ones
 
Sandeep99 said:
It is your opinion. Many people may disagree with you. You just blanket out other possibilities and say 'we cannot deny' :)))
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I dont think people will disagree too much about this

how about this, if bevan played in this era he would DEFINITLY have modified his batting skills to suit to the present and hence have some decent stats? He played between 94 and 04 when he faced some quality bowlers like walsh, waqar, wasim, vaas...pitches were more bowler friendly and ODI rules werent tilted to batsman. These days, there are PPs. Not to mention, he didnt play during the T20 era
 
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sachjinn said:
Not everyone or anyone for that matter. Just you :)

Interesting that you should use the phrase, get ideas.

So, who is it? Dhoni or Bevan?
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What makes you think I read your that post even, let alone getting "idea" from that to support Bevan ? Do you watch me ?
 
Dhoni has surpassed Bevan in my very unbiased opinion.
As for some posters saying that Bevan played in the era of better bowlers... I would just ask you, where does this argument disappear when you compare Tendulkar to Ponting or Kallis ??

Ponting and Kallis feasted on an age of trundlers.. Did they set the world on fire against bowlers in 90s ??
Add to that, Ponting, bevan never played Mcgrath, Warne, Lee ... Lara never played the fearsome west indian attack of 90s ... Kallis never played Steyn and Donald.. Infact all of them had the bonus of playing Indian trundlers, which neither Dhoni or Tendu had.

So there goes the argument of Bevan playing in a bowler friendly era. If the argument doesnt hold true for Tendu -lara/ponting/kallis comparisons.. then dont use it selectively to prove Bevan superior here.
Let's face it...Dhoni has just inched past Bevan here.
 
vicky_iisc said:
What makes you think I read your that post even, let alone getting "idea" from that to support Bevan ? Do you watch me ?
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Sachin whispered in my ear. He told me to do it.

So you won't answer the more pertinent question - Dhoni or Bevan?
 
sachjinn said:
Sachin whispered in my ear. He told me to do it.

So you won't answer the more pertinent question - Dhoni or Bevan?
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I have already shared my opinion on it earler in this thread.. just refer to my two or three posts above.. it's not an "answer" which I can give, it's my opinion..
 
Bevan was no match to Dhoni as a finisher. Dhoni is miles ahead and is a complete cricketer.
 
vicky_iisc said:
I have already shared my opinion on it earler in this thread.. just refer to my two or three posts above.. it's not an "answer" which I can give, it's my opinion..
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Here's what you said,

If Dhoni hadn't played that innings in WC final, I would rate Bevan as better carrier of innings than Dhoni.

And later
but if you ask me.. at this point I will rate Bevan as better albeit slightly.

I asked a simple qn - so who is it?



Answer if you will, I don't care anymore.
 
sachjinn said:
Here's what you said,

If Dhoni hadn't played that innings in WC final, I would rate Bevan as better carrier of innings than Dhoni.

And later
but if you ask me.. at this point I will rate Bevan as better albeit slightly.

I asked a simple qn - so who is it?



Answer if you will, I don't care anymore.
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If you can read properly, you should read my posts above.. I can't be repeating myself for someone who has a problem in reading the full post and jumping the gun without even reading it properly.. Sorry, don't have time for that...
 
its pretty obvious that Bevan was a better finisher than Dhoni. He faced better bowlers that Dhoni. He played on a lot more bowler friendly pitches than Dhoni. And he played in an era when rules were not in so much favour of batsmen as they are now. Bevan wins hands down.
 
vicky_iisc said:
Are you implying that I will use this silly logic of Bevan being the best of all time in past and future.. just because he was best that time ? irrespective of who comes in future ? Sorry, I don't base my argument on such logic.. but then I am picking him on gut feel, so you can say that..

It's just my opinion and the impression of watching both that the difference b/w them is marginal.. before WC 2011 final, I would not have rated Dhoni closer also (though he played match winning innings earlier too)..

I will say I rate Bevan slightly better just because he gave more "assurance" of safety of chase.. at that time when 100 runs run-a-ball or more was not very easy as it is now.. now this "assurance" is a feeling which can't be proven.. and I agree currently no one gives that feeling more than Dhoni... but just as I can't prove it either way.. on gut feel basis, I will rate Bevan slightly better than Dhoni at the moment.. it may change in future as Dhoni is a very calm and cool customer.. may be if you asked me after one more such innings from Dhoni against Aus/SA, I will pick Dhoni.
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Do you have any data to back it up? I mention again that its just your impression


While chasing and in winning (where both were not out, which means they finished the game)

Bevan has scored 1020 runs from 1480 balls at a SR of 68.91
MSD has scored 1500 runs from 1600 balls at a SR of 93.75


Which clearly says Dhoni has made it more times where demand was to score 150% faster than what Bevan had to do.

So what makes you think Dhoni is not crossed Bevan for better finisher ?
 

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Reverselap said:
Which is why Kohli should have captained. It would have been Virat's cup, because after 2015, I believe Dhoni himself has said he'll retire

What then? You'll have a captain with no experience of captaining finals, even small ones
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Yes, I would also have loved Virat raising the cup.

But the way the team batted may be he wouldn't have :D
 
I have to rate Dhoni than everyone else !!! Simply because he is the CAPTAIN and the WICKET-KEEPER on top of everything that a normal player have to.do. These two addinal duties makes up a huge mental and physical load on a player. Even when the team is batting, one see that the Captain is just not sitting and watching the match. He is deeply involved analyzing the match. So there is lot more to being a Captain than a player.
 
If you never saw Bevan play then i suggest to not post (in plain English keep your mouth shut) on this thread guys please.

Dhoni is not fit enough to lace his boots IMO, you have to do what MS does against the bowling attacks as well. In that regard Bevan and Klusner will always be ahead of him IMO.

He is good player none the less though. I have not even mentioned the trundler named Viv
 
Bevan was an accumulator and basically relied on singles more than power hitting. He was not capable of 10 % power hitting as Dhoni who can clear the boundary at will when he is in the zone against any bowler.

Dhoni has a strike rate of close to 90 in ODIs whereas Bevan has a strike rate of 75. There have been numerous instances where Dhoni came in at the end of the innings and scored 13-14 runs an over and took the game away from the opposition in the blink of an eye. Bevan was never capable of doing this.

Its this sheer match winning ability and capacity to change the match situation so quickly which puts Dhoni above everyone else.
 
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test_fan said:
When you make comments like this do you think anyone would take you seriously? LOL
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thats ok coz i never took this thread seriously. To call a single player the greatest is always stupid and subjective. Unless you have a fair sample then its best to keep your mouth shut
 
How do you score singles when you need 12 runs to win in a single over remaining batting with the tail at that?

I always thought 9 runs+ was impossible in a single over especially under pressure. One player changed my perception thats because he did on a regular basis.

Again if you never saw the great man play, especialy in those days with minimum field restrictions, keep your mouth shut
 
Re: Dhoni is better than Bevan. He is the BEST finisher in the game

soso_killer said:
How do you score singles when you need 12 runs to win in a single over remaining batting with the tail at that?

I always thought 9 runs+ was impossible in a single over especially under pressure. One player changed my perception thats because he did on a regular basis.

Again if you never saw the great man play, especialy in those days with minimum field restrictions, keep your mouth shut
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Did anyone ask you to keep your mouth shut when you said that Dhoni is not fit to tie Bevan's laces?

Dhoni is ahead of Bevan as a batsman.Yes he is no Viv or Tendulkar but ahead of Bevan.
 
cricketjoshila said:
Did anyone ask you to keep your mouth shut when you said that Dhoni is not fit to tie Bevan's laces?

Dhoni is ahead of Bevan as a batsman.Yes he is no Viv or Tendulkar but ahead of Bevan.
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Thats According to you but others like me might have different opinions. Beven was better, he was more than a finisher.
 
Lol what happened there? I Saw it somewhere with comparisons done with that infamous hafeez incident during SA series. Caption mentioned that SL appealed but umpires didnt bother.
Did anyone watch this during the final?
 

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Dhoni is better than Bevan. He is the BEST finisher in the game

gabbarsingh said:
Bevan was an accumulator and basically relied on singles more than power hitting. He was not capable of 10 % power hitting as Dhoni who can clear the boundary at will when he is in the zone against any bowler.

Dhoni has a strike rate of close to 90 in ODIs whereas Bevan has a strike rate of 75. There have been numerous instances where Dhoni came in at the end of the innings and scored 13-14 runs an over and took the game away from the opposition in the blink of an eye. Bevan was never capable of doing this.

Its this sheer match winning ability and capacity to change the match situation so quickly which puts Dhoni above everyone else.
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Bevan never it get to 10-12 runs required in the last over... He was a true finisher of the game. Dhoni is a product of BCCI funding and crap bowling at the death.
 
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