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New Zealand beat Bangladesh by 9 wickets in the 2nd Test, win series 2-0

Aman said:
its not like Shakibs knock was chance less, he had 2 lives IIRC.

We're probably going to see scores of 500/3 declared when you guys tour.

Wouldn't surprise me to see Ashwin to do well either, our batsmen are horrific.
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Ashwin has failed as a spinner in NZ,SA,Aus,England. His 80% wickets are in Asia. Still to prove himself as a bowler outside Asia.
 
Executioner said:
Shakib has 15 5-wicket hauls. His bowling average is on the higher side but could have been lower if he had support from other bowlers and not often he got to bowl in the second innings on 4th/5th day pitch particularly in the past. In ODIs and T20Is he is among the better spinners in the world. Rankings will tell you so


And an average of 40 with bat in hand in tests. With 35 in ODIs and 26 in T20Is

You are looking for impact but why have such high standards from someone who is very good in both disciplines. How many players in the world today can walk into most sides in the world with bat or ball alone?
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Shakib is very good in both but world class in none.

Ashwin is world class (my issue with him is statistically being considered one of the best ever bowlers) who has immense impact with the ball maybe even more so than Kohli or Smith with the bat. With the bat he is handy, which with his world class bowling makes him probably the most valuable player in world cricket.

I'd gladly take someone who is world class in one discipline and can win you matches on his own than someone who is very good in both.
 
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Aman said:
Shakib is very good in both but world class in none.

Ashwin is world class (my issue with him is statistically being considered one of the best ever bowlers) who has immense impact with the ball maybe even more so than Kohli or Smith with the bat. With the bat he is handy, which with his world class bowling makes him probably the most valuable player in world cricket.

I'd gladly take someone who is world class in one discipline and can win you matches on his own than someone who is very good in both.
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That's your choice whom you want.

An all-rounder adds balance to your side which Shakib does. If you want a Frontline bowler/batsman that's a different thing.
 
Executioner said:
That's your choice whom you want.

An all-rounder adds balance to your side which Shakib does. If you want a Frontline bowler/batsman that's a different thing.
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It isn't about balance, it's about winning games.

Ashwin has probably won more matches alone than KW, Root, Tanim, Stokes and Shakib combined.

The impact he has is immense albeit just in the SC, I wish we had a bowler of that quality...
 
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Aman said:
It isn't about balance, it's about winning games.

Ashwin has probably won more matches alone than KW, Root, Tanim, Stokes and Shakib combined.

The impact he has is immense albeit just in the SC, I wish we had a bowler of that quality...
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Mehedi Hasan Miraz took 50 percent of the wickets against England. On favorable wickets a spinner can be absolutely lethal.
 
Executioner said:
Mehedi Hasan Miraz took 50 percent of the wickets against England. On favorable wickets a spinner can be absolutely lethal.
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It's one thing to pick wickets on minefields.

Miraz needs to repeat his performance outside of his home in countries like India, UAE, Sri Lanka, etc.
 
street cricketer said:
It's one thing to pick wickets on minefields.

Miraz needs to repeat his performance outside of his home in countries like India, UAE, Sri Lanka, etc.
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Same applies to Ashwin and all other spinners

The real challenge is when you are forced to perform in unhelpful conditions

Warne and Murali are two who standout
 
Executioner said:
Mehedi Hasan Miraz took 50 percent of the wickets against England. On favorable wickets a spinner can be absolutely lethal.
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24 5 fers and 7 10 fers...

Steyn has 26 5 fers and 5 10 fers..
 
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Executioner said:
Same applies to Ashwin and all other spinners

The real challenge is when you are forced to perform in unhelpful conditions

Warne and Murali are two who standout
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Ashwin was successful against England on some pretty flat wickets, the wickets we got in India were nothing like the ones you prepared for England as well. On those kinds of wicket, Santner and Sodhi would have been effective.

Also, there are instances where Ashwin's contributions have led to Indian victories (against SL and a Test against us?)
 
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Aman said:
Ashwin was successful against England on some pretty flat wickets, the wickets we got in India were nothing like the ones you prepared for England as well. On those kinds of wicket, Santner and Sodhi would have been effective.

Also, there are instances where Ashwin's contributions have led to Indian victories (against SL and a Test against us?)
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Correction WI*

Mixed up Bhaji's innings with Ashwin's.
 
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Executioner said:
Same applies to Ashwin and all other spinners

The real challenge is when you are forced to perform in unhelpful conditions

Warne and Murali are two who standout
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Eh?

Ashwin has been equally effective in India, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, the West Indies and in the UAE as well if he played on it. That's more than 50% of the test playing nations and venues.

Miraz was great in a single series where the wickets were similar to the ones India had against South Africa. Lets wait before putting both in the same basket.
 
street cricketer said:
Eh?

Ashwin has been equally effective in India, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, the West Indies and in the UAE as well if he played on it. That's more than 50% of the test playing nations and venues.

Miraz was great in a single series where the wickets were similar to the ones India had against South Africa. Lets wait before putting both in the same basket.
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I was talking about unfavorable conditions.

Obviously Ashwin is an accomplished spinner right now.

Not comparing Miraz to him. Miraz is a batting all-rounder
 
Dios said:
Outside Asia (Zimbabwe excluded):

Yasir Shah - 27 wickets in 15 innings, average:55.81, strike-rate: 88.8

Ashwin - 41 wickets in 21 innings, average: 42.73, strike-rate: 80.2

Shakib - 40 wickets in 15 innings, average: 26.70, strike-rate: 55.6

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...5;team=6;team=7;template=results;type=bowling
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On virtue of these stats we can safely say Shakib is a world class bowler.

He is a good batsman but not among the best batsman but definitely one of the best spinners in the world when you consider performance in all formats combined.

All that with the following batting average

24 in t20s
35 in ODIs
41 in tests

Quite an immature player is shakib, not impact but he is an excellent support player. Not being impactful should not take away the fact that he is the only true genuine world class all-rounder in modern cricket and that itself says something about his ability.

It's not easy to perform in 2 disciplines in all 3 formats.
 
Executioner said:
On virtue of these stats we can safely say Shakib is a world class bowler.

He is a good batsman but not among the best batsman but definitely one of the best spinners in the world when you consider performance in all formats combined.

All that with the following batting average

24 in t20s
35 in ODIs
41 in tests

Quite an immature player is shakib, not impact but he is an excellent support player. Not being impactful should not take away the fact that he is the only true genuine world class all-rounder in modern cricket and that itself says something about his ability.

It's not easy to perform in 2 disciplines in all 3 formats.
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Yet the spinners that are compared are Ashwin, Yasir and Herath.

He isn't world class.
 
And how many test matches shakib has played in SA and Aus? And what's his amazing record in these two counteries which are hardest to tour for sub continent teams, but oh it's not shakib fault that BD isn't good enough to be invited in those two counteries for test series.
 
Shakib is a good bowler. No doubt. But how much has he played in Australia, SA etc.? Places where spinners find it difficult.
 
Aman said:
Yet the spinners that are compared are Ashwin, Yasir and Herath.

He isn't world class.
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2 are specialist spinners while Ashwin is a bowling all-rounder.

Shakib has performed well abroad but his performance in home isn't special. The slow flat wickets we produced doesn't suit Shakib's style of bowling given his round arm action.

Shakib may be inferior to those 3 with ball in hand but has done enough to be justified as world class. All that after having to.carry his team with bat as well.
 
Statsman said:
Shakib is a good bowler. No doubt. But how much has he played in Australia, SA etc.? Places where spinners find it difficult.
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Has played in South Africa with 2 five wicket hauls there

But I have no doubt he would struggle the same way as Yasir Shah or Ashwin did in Australia. Atleast in the past Australian wickets were somewhat suitable for spinners hence warne and Murali had some.success

These current Australian wickets are absolute roads from a spinners perspective
 
Executioner said:
Has played in South Africa with 2 five wicket hauls there

But I have no doubt he would struggle the same way as Yasir Shah or Ashwin did in Australia. Atleast in the past Australian wickets were somewhat suitable for spinners hence warne and Murali had some.success

These current Australian wickets are absolute roads from a spinners perspective
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What? Murali was TERRIBLE in Australia. Bowling average was 75.41
 
Zeshan547 said:
And how many test matches shakib has played in SA and Aus? And what's his amazing record in these two counteries which are hardest to tour for sub continent teams, but oh it's not shakib fault that BD isn't good enough to be invited in those two counteries for test series.
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Shakib average 20 in SAF. He's by far the best SC spinner outside SC conditions. Shakib doesn't rely on conditions to pick wickets
 
Bd needs to get 300 lead leaving 60 overs left to get any result on their favor. Else bd loosing it.
 
Mahmudullah should be kicked out from our test team. He is totally worthless in that format. He is wasting a place of test squad for a long time. Useless selectors.
 
Bd is loosing it from a very good position again. Seniors again responsible for these two*test loss. All seniors gone. All now depends on juniors. Hope they can pile up some runs and take lead to 270+ and left 50 overs max. Hope they just hold on.
 
Chaal Bhai, Choutha Roz paar kar le - it might rain tomorrow.

Boys are learning hard way what it takes to bat 2nd time in a cricket match.
 
Bangladesh why do you insist on adopting Asian habits! :facepalm: Why must you collapse in one inning regularly?

Wagner Sher is awesome!
 
It's not habit or choke - it's technical limitation. Kiwis have found that BD players are very crispy drivers & cutters of both feet, but they don't like the smell of leather.

First innings, one is more composed - but after 3 days, if a hard leather piece starts to hiss past your nose & ear .....

It's good - they now know what to expect next time they go out (this is after 6.5 years) - there are couple of really fast wicket in BD, but more grassy, hence they don't bowl much short. Now, need couple of rock bed roads to practice the chest high ball at 140km.
 
Hobbits are gonna get phainty of their life against Saffers..

Gamble of preparing green-tops has worked against the Asian sides.. But they would be shredded against the side whose fate is not dependent on the coin in these conditions.
 
MMHS said:
It's not habit or choke - it's technical limitation. Kiwis have found that BD players are very crispy drivers & cutters of both feet, but they don't like the smell of leather.

First innings, one is more composed - but after 3 days, if a hard leather piece starts to hiss past your nose & ear .....

It's good - they now know what to expect next time they go out (this is after 6.5 years) - there are couple of really fast wicket in BD, but more grassy, hence they don't bowl much short. Now, need couple of rock bed roads to practice the chest high ball at 140km.
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Technical limitation is one thing but consistently collapsing is down to inexperience. The stage is still too big for them. They've never been in this position before so are overwhelmed by the pressure of taking their side to victory or draw. However, in a couple of years, this will be invaluable experience when all the young batsmen have matured.
 
MMHS said:
It's not habit or choke - it's technical limitation. Kiwis have found that BD players are very crispy drivers & cutters of both feet, but they don't like the smell of leather.

First innings, one is more composed - but after 3 days, if a hard leather piece starts to hiss past your nose & ear .....

It's good - they now know what to expect next time they go out (this is after 6.5 years) - there are couple of really fast wicket in BD, but more grassy, hence they don't bowl much short. Now, need couple of rock bed roads to practice the chest high ball at 140km.
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"Tbh needs us more than we need him. We're his only way to win another Ballon d'Or" :broad
 
A little disappointed with Bangladesh though.

They have the ability to compete which showed in 1st innings of both tests.

I think if they applied themselves in 2nd innings, surely 2 draws were not out of question.
 
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On what basis is Rubel Hossain playing test cricket? FC average of 63 with the ball and test average of 77. Even part timers are not this bad. Somebody bin this useless sack of crap.
 
leatherface58 said:
On what basis is Rubel Hossain playing test cricket? FC average of 63 with the ball and test average of 77. Even part timers are not this bad. Somebody bin this useless sack of crap.
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We also have Riad who never scores in tests even on flat wickets.
 
I am disappointed by this 8-0 rout.

It's not like the matches where close either we were outplayed by a team with discipline.

I can accept that our youths struggled but Tamim and Riad were just woeful. Mushfiq had injury problems

In our current test xi only 4 players have played more than 10 matches and one of them has a bowling average Adam voges would be proud of.
 
The imploding tendencies of Bangladesh are right up there with the very best, may this streak continue even against us :D
 
Honestly, I think Bangladesh is on the rise. They need some work for sure and need to learn to deal with pressure, but in 5 years time maybe they can challenge top 5 rankings.

Any idea why Mustafizur Rahman didn't play? Wasn't he being rested almost every other match to have him ready for the Test series?
 
Dios said:
Outside Asia (Zimbabwe excluded):

Yasir Shah - 27 wickets in 15 innings, average:55.81, strike-rate: 88.8

Ashwin - 41 wickets in 21 innings, average: 42.73, strike-rate: 80.2

Shakib - 40 wickets in 15 innings, average: 26.70, strike-rate: 55.6

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...5;team=6;team=7;template=results;type=bowling
Click to expand...

Executioner said:
On virtue of these stats we can safely say Shakib is a world class bowler.

He is a good batsman but not among the best batsman but definitely one of the best spinners in the world when you consider performance in all formats combined.

All that with the following batting average

24 in t20s
35 in ODIs
41 in tests

Quite an immature player is shakib, not impact but he is an excellent support player. Not being impactful should not take away the fact that he is the only true genuine world class all-rounder in modern cricket and that itself says something about his ability.

It's not easy to perform in 2 disciplines in all 3 formats.
Click to expand...

Joseph Gomes said:
Shakib average 20 in SAF. He's by far the best SC spinner outside SC conditions. Shakib doesn't rely on conditions to pick wickets
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Shakib is a world class bowler but stats can't be used like that to compare apples and oranges.

For example, Shakib hasn't played in Aus.

Remove Aus from stats and someone like Ashwin averages 24.5 outside Asia (no Zimbabwe).

Now that doesn't mean Ashwin will averages 24.5 if he does a whole overseas cycle (barring Aus). Too speculative and highly unlikely.

Herath has poor stats in Eng but has amazing stats for a modern spinner in Aus. Just 33 (which he averaged in 2012). I doubt any other overseas spinner can match that in Aus. Also he won a test match for SA in Durban turner.

Someone like Yasir averaged 40 in England but he was way more impactful there than any overseas spinner in recent times.

Spinner stats are all a mess when we take just overseas due to low sample set plus the fact that some grounds aid spin more, while some are just graveyards for spinners (and you need a bit of luck to get good pitches when you tour). So comparison between them needs more context along with stats.

Shakib is no spin track bully. That's for sure.

WC spinner and AR.
 
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Really pathetic effort by Bangladesh today after competing so well for the previous days of play. The way they batted was ridiculous.

Plenty of talent there for sure but not a backbone in sight im afraid.
 
Bangladesh recalling the glory days of West Indies in late 90s and early 2000s with these ridiculous and outta nowhere collapses.

Happy with Henry and Southee's performance. Boult has been disappointing. He took wickets but he still does not run through sides.
 
Space Cat said:
Really pathetic effort by Bangladesh today after competing so well for the previous days of play. The way they batted was ridiculous.

Plenty of talent there for sure but not a backbone in sight im afraid.
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The problem I see for Bangladesh is that Shakib is their main batsman. He seems to be the big fish. No team can compete consistently if Shakib is their Main weapon.

Banglas need a couple of serious run making middle order batsmen. Their top order seems to be alright with Tamim/Soumya and Imrul.
 
Space Cat said:
Really pathetic effort by Bangladesh today after competing so well for the previous days of play. The way they batted was ridiculous.

Plenty of talent there for sure but not a backbone in sight im afraid.
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To be fair, this wasn't a fully fit Bangladesh side.

In the 1st Test, Mushfiq showed a lot "spine" by batting with broken fingers, up until he got hit on the helmet. It was excellent cricket from NZ because that was the only way he could be dismissed at that stage. Then of course Imrul also hobbled back onto the field after being stretchered off the previous day. There was good resolve shown by Mominul, Sabbir in the first innings, and by Sabbir again in the 2nd. Had we batted another 10 overs in either innings (not declaring in the 1st innings), we'd have likely saved the match.

In the 2nd Test, we had a total of 7 players with 3 or fewer Test caps, including 2 debutants. The pitch was certainly more sporting than the one in Wellington.

All in all, we didn't disgrace ourselves compared to how other subcontinent sides have fared against this NZ side in NZ conditions. This was only our 2nd Test series in the last 17 months, and the first one away in around 30 months. Other teams have far more preparation and fare as poorly or even worse.

Its about showing continual improvement, often in small increments.

Since 2013, Bangladesh have done decently in Tests:

Drawn match in SL, series vs NZ, another at home vs PAK (huge comeback from a 300 run 1st innings deficit), a close drawn series vs SA, which would have likely marked our first Test win had it not rained, followed immediately by our first win vs England.

This year is going to be a tough one. A test in India (most likely against India A), a series in SA later on.

As long as we continue to develop we're moving forward, albeit slowly.

10 years ago, Bangladesh lost by an innings at home and everywhere they toured regardless of how many players were rested from the opposition sides. 4 years ago, we started drawing matches at home, and have now finally won (20 runs short of a 2-0 whitewash of England!). We competed in spurts overseas in totally alient conditions.

I am reasonably satisfied with this performance so long as we don't stagnate for long after this.
 
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