New Zealand outclass Australia by 159 runs in 1st ODI

[Aman]

It is too tiny for an International stadium

IIRC 300+ has only be scored there 7 times

 

[hur rizvi]

IIRC 300+ has only be scored there 7 times

Does that make 57m boundary 77m?

 

[Aman]

Does that make 57m boundary 77m?

It makes your logic flawed.

You point to the boundaries being too small, yet the cricket that is put on there is far superior to the cricket you get on the roads in the UAE and Aus.

 

[hur rizvi]

It makes your logic flawed.

You point to the boundaries being too small, yet the cricket that is put on there is far superior to the cricket you get on the roads in the UAE and Aus.

My opinion is simple No cricket ground in the world should have 57m boundary. ICC should decide allowable dimensions and IMO they should be greater than 65m.

UAE grounds are pathetic for cricket bar dubai, but we play there only because we are forced too and the problem there is pitch not the dimmesnions.

I like Eden park but the should do something about boundary size.

 

[Aman]

My opinion is simple No cricket ground in the world should have 57m boundary. ICC should decide allowable dimensions and IMO they should be greater than 65m.

UAE grounds are pathetic for cricket bar dubai, but we play there only because we are forced too and the problem there is pitch not the dimmesnions.

I like Eden park but the should do something about boundary size.

They can't do anything about it.

It's either Eden Park or no cricket in NZ's biggest city.

 

[pacefan]

So now you can say Pakistan wasn't that bad, we grabbed kiwis by their neck in both One Dayers but only because of worst Captaincy and an Umpiring blunder cost us the series; Now look at Australia(Home Yard Bullies) what has happened to them; all they like to play in their own back yard against team with the worst bowling line up like India and look where they are right now!! Hence the only disadvantage Pakistan has is the lack of international matches in our own country and so we are paying the price on playing on worst pitches and worst outfield in UAE! recently all these countries are playing well in their own back yard and as soon as they travel outside they become mediocre teams!

 

[carrom_ball]

So now you can say Pakistan wasn't that bad, we grabbed kiwis by their neck in both One Dayers but only because of worst Captaincy and an Umpiring blunder cost us the series; Now look at Australia(Home Yard Bullies) what has happened to them; all they like to play in their own back yard against team with the worst bowling line up like India and look where they are right now!! Hence the only disadvantage Pakistan has is the lack of international matches in our own country and so we are paying the price on playing on worst pitches and worst outfield in UAE! recently all these countries are playing well in their own back yard and as soon as they travel outside they become mediocre teams!

Surely you don't mean to say pak> Australia in odis? Do you?

 

[hur rizvi]

They can't do anything about it.

It's either Eden Park or no cricket in NZ's biggest city.

Its upon ICC and NZC to do or not do, but personally i dont like 57m boundary in an international stadium.

 

[pacesensation]

[MENTION=139847]Ankit007[/MENTION]

i am sorry for my earlier comments. They were uncalled for. I sincerely apologize for those comments.


Regards

 

[Ankit007]

[MENTION=139847]Ankit007[/MENTION]

i am sorry for my earlier comments. They were uncalled for. I sincerely apologize for those comments.


Regards

Oh cmon bro. thats perfectly okk.

Me too Sorry if I hurt you

 

[Pete Rose]

Early days, but I think Pakistan did quite well basis this comparison.

 

[Pete Rose]

Surely you don't mean to say pak> Australia in odis? Do you?

No he means to say that Pakistan has a better bowling attack than India in odis basis a very short window of comparison of what has transpired over the last two weeks. It counts for nothing as our batting is rubbish.

 

[IcedCoffee]

I'll post that below:
--------------------------------------
Apologies for the late reply.

I have no doubt that India got flatter tracks in Australia. Adelaide was flat as always, but turning and ripping on the final day (ask the Aussie posters). Gabba had a bit of bounce but was flatter than the normal Brisbane track. Melbourne and Sydeny were probably the flattest tracks I saw, absolute flat beds they were. Sydney which usually assists the spinners did nothing.

But the point is, did only India receive flat tracks? The drop in pitches have been flat for a long time in Australia. The tracks were flat during the last SA tour of Aus, NZ received joke of a tracks in WACA (of all pitches, imagine the furore had India received such a track in Perth) and Brisbane. Only Adelaide was good due to the different match conditions and pink ball. The tracks against WI were super flat too.

Many people tend to believe a conspiracy that the BCCI strong arms other boards into producing flat tracks.

Other than Trent Bridge, which was a disgrace of a wicket, all the other tracks were bowling tracks only. Especially Lords was a green top.

I'll reproduce the pitch reports for our matches in the SA and NZ tour (cricinfo):

Pitch report of Jo'burg test:
"Would you look at that. The pitch report comes up and there is a "nice covering of grass on it. The sun is out and the groundsman believes the preparation has been quite perfect. It will be a little slow on the first day, but will quicken as the match progresses. There will be movement for the fast bowlers early on, but there might not be too much assistance for the spinners."

Pitch report of Auckland test:
A slight passing shower on, which hopefully won't delay the match further. "A tremendous grass coverage," says Simon Doull of the pitch. He also says the pitch is not quite rock hard because it hasn't had the sun to dry out. So he expects tennis-ball bounce, a lot of movement, but not a lot of pace.

Pitch report of Wellington test:
"The pitch report has mixed news for the batsman. Life will be tough early on, there is a considerable and even covering of grass on this deck. But as the game wears on, in the second and third days with the sun beating down it will flatten out. The outfield is fantastic. It's a lovely day out there, with a maximum of 21 degrees celsius and a humidity of 87%".

I saw all of those matches live and while they definitely weren't greatly seaming wickets, they definitely weren't flat tracks either as many will have you believe. All of these tracks had conditions which can assist the bowlers, atleast on the first 2 to 3 days.

Unfortunately, India can never win with a few ppers here. If India do well abroad, it's either because:

1. The wickets were flat or
2. The batsmen played foolish shots to crap bowling.

And if India fail in difficult conditions abroad:

1. India are FTBs and were found out on difficult tracks (which are the saving grace of test cricket)..

When India do well at home:

1. India are HTBs.
2. India can only win on doctored pitches.

When overseas teams fail in difficult conditions in India:

1. No batsman could bat on such disgraceful conditions (which of course are destroying Test cricket).

--------------------------------------

1st and 2nd test were flat, but the 3rd test between Aus and SA in Perth wasn't a flat track. It had some pace and bounce as well as some seam movement.

India played well in the J'berg test, I'll admit that. There was assistance, and they countered it well.

However, when Aus toured SA, their first test was also on a pitch that had plenty of movement and assistance for the bowlers especially with the bounce. MJ made good use of that. It must also be said that there was some reverse swing (though not as much as the 2nd test) during the last test, and the Australians managed to overcome it.

As far as the Auckland Ind vs NZ test goes, report suggests this:

"Sent in on a green Eden Park drop-in pitch which offered early assistance, New Zealand quickly slipped to 30 for three. Then McCullum joined forces with Williamson to demoralise the Indians. Their stand of 221 was full of textbook strokes as the pitch flattened and the ball deteriorated, though not enough on a lush outfield to enable reverse swing."

As for the Wellington test:

"New Zealand struggled to 192 on an emerald tinged strip after Dhoni had won his seventh consecutive toss."

"and, eventually, a declaration that set India a purely notional 435 from 67 overs. They slipped to 54 for three, but Kohli avoided further embarrassment on a benign pitch, scoring his sixth Test hundred."

India batted 2nd in both those games. From the looks of it, this isn't some proof that they are capable of handling swing and seaming conditions. Yes, they did decent as there still was something in the pitches, but it's not enough to counter the plenty more times where they have been found out against such conditions namely in England and even that Auckland test.

Now, from what is evident so far (Aus' NZ tour will confirm), India has managed better in swinging/seaming conditions than Aus, but only just. Certainly not enough to be calling Aus FTBs or HTBs.

Btw during that Lord's test, granted India batted first on a very green pitch, it must be said about how during the first 10 overs with the new ball, Hawk-Eye showed that not a single delivery by the English attack would have hit the stumps. The Indians in reply showed the english when they bowled, how to take full advantage of such conditions by pitching it up and reaping the rewards. Still, I digress, India had to struggle to get out of that situation, and they did well (mostly due to Rahane). But sorry, that barrage of wickets on the last day wasn't due to good bowling (not saying it's crap as they bowled really well in that game), but rather brainless batting, and smart field placement.

*Note: Similar thing happened in Wellington test according to Williamson where the NZ bowlers failed to adjust to the length, but still it was a tough pitch to play on during both sides' first innings.

India got rolled out by England during a home tour (in Ind) in 2012. As far as I see it, England are the only side who aren't FTB/HTBs.

As far as the SA tour of India goes, no one can deny how poor the pitches were. Also, let's not kid ourselves when we compare the SA spin attack of part-timers to the powerful combination of Jadeja and especially Ashwin. Had India batted against these two, they too would have collapsed. Regardless, they won, and that's that.

Nobody is saying that India win only on doctored pitches--they likely can beat any team in the world right now at home. As far as overseas teams touring India goes, let me know when those same teams start preparing pitches that are rated as "poor" by the ICC then people will stop whinging about the doctored pitches at home. Also, pitches like Edgebaston provide decent batting conditions once the initial swing and seam assistance period is over as shown by Root with his 100 during that Aus 60 a. out test.

 

[IcedCoffee]

) do you even listen to yourself before typing, they lost because they threw their wickets, India lost because they are not good enough ) man you have no clue about cricket

Check out dismissals during Ind vs Eng 4th and 5th test. Indians were edging it to the keeper or the slips. During 3rd test similar but some c&b and bowled too. That's a lot different than just playing a hook shot and hitting it to the same fielder at short mid. or midwicket. Sure, the result is the same, but the difference being, one is a far better display of pace bowling and speaks more about a bowler's skill than the other. Still, I'm not saying Ishant bowled poorly--he bowled well, and got India the win. However, that's the distinction between the 2nd test and the rest.

It's like a Pakistani batting collapse and you proud yourself on that. I mean sure it's great, but you're only fooling yourself if you think it was due to some exceptional display of bowling prowess.

 

[IcedCoffee]

This is a dangerous line of argument. Then Indian fans can argue that India threw away their series after getting a win at Lord's, and justifiably so.

And since when we go by the words of commies. By that logic, Australia will be the best team in the world if you listen to channel nine, India if you listen to star sports and England in Skysports...

Read my last reply to that carrom guy.

 

[street cricketer]

1st and 2nd test were flat, but the 3rd test between Aus and SA in Perth wasn't a flat track. It had some pace and bounce as well as some seam movement.

India played well in the J'berg test, I'll admit that. There was assistance, and they countered it well.

However, when Aus toured SA, their first test was also on a pitch that had plenty of movement and assistance for the bowlers especially with the bounce. MJ made good use of that. It must also be said that there was some reverse swing (though not as much as the 2nd test) during the last test, and the Australians managed to overcome it.

As far as the Auckland Ind vs NZ test goes, report suggests this:

"Sent in on a green Eden Park drop-in pitch which offered early assistance, New Zealand quickly slipped to 30 for three. Then McCullum joined forces with Williamson to demoralise the Indians. Their stand of 221 was full of textbook strokes as the pitch flattened and the ball deteriorated, though not enough on a lush outfield to enable reverse swing."

As for the Wellington test:

"New Zealand struggled to 192 on an emerald tinged strip after Dhoni had won his seventh consecutive toss."

"and, eventually, a declaration that set India a purely notional 435 from 67 overs. They slipped to 54 for three, but Kohli avoided further embarrassment on a benign pitch, scoring his sixth Test hundred."

India batted 2nd in both those games. From the looks of it, this isn't some proof that they are capable of handling swing and seaming conditions. Yes, they did decent as there still was something in the pitches, but it's not enough to counter the plenty more times where they have been found out against such conditions namely in England and even that Auckland test.

Now, from what is evident so far (Aus' NZ tour will confirm), India has managed better in swinging/seaming conditions than Aus, but only just. Certainly not enough to be calling Aus FTBs or HTBs.

Btw during that Lord's test, granted India batted first on a very green pitch, it must be said about how during the first 10 overs with the new ball, Hawk-Eye showed that not a single delivery by the English attack would have hit the stumps. The Indians in reply showed the english when they bowled, how to take full advantage of such conditions by pitching it up and reaping the rewards. Still, I digress, India had to struggle to get out of that situation, and they did well (mostly due to Rahane). But sorry, that barrage of wickets on the last day wasn't due to good bowling (not saying it's crap as they bowled really well in that game), but rather brainless batting, and smart field placement.

*Note: Similar thing happened in Wellington test according to Williamson where the NZ bowlers failed to adjust to the length, but still it was a tough pitch to play on during both sides' first innings.

India got rolled out by England during a home tour (in Ind) in 2012. As far as I see it, England are the only side who aren't FTB/HTBs.

As far as the SA tour of India goes, no one can deny how poor the pitches were. Also, let's not kid ourselves when we compare the SA spin attack of part-timers to the powerful combination of Jadeja and especially Ashwin. Had India batted against these two, they too would have collapsed. Regardless, they won, and that's that.

Nobody is saying that India win only on doctored pitches--they likely can beat any team in the world right now at home. As far as overseas teams touring India goes, let me know when those same teams start preparing pitches that are rated as "poor" by the ICC then people will stop whinging about the doctored pitches at home. Also, pitches like Edgebaston provide decent batting conditions once the initial swing and seam assistance period is over as shown by Root with his 100 during that Aus 60 a. out test.

What happened to SA batting in the Bangalore and the Delhi tests?

And you're right. I rate English batting slightly above India, but they're too inconsistent. They drew with frigging west indies away, was smashed in Australia away, lost to SL at home and drew with NZ at home, while getting beaten comprehensively in the UAE. Yes, they did well to win in SA, but we should remember that the side they beat lacked Steyn, Philander, Kallis, Smith (all of these played against us) and a team containing van Zyl, Vilas, Viljoen, all of whom weren't test standard, and with Amla and Faf, both of whom couldn't buy a run before the series. This is definitely not the hallmark of a dominant test team.

That said, NZ and to some extent, England, probably have managed to compete the best away from their home. Still I would wait before they tour India before reaching my conclusions. And yes, they should be ready for rank turners, given the fact that they don't think twice before dishing out greentops to the Asian teams.

 

[pacefan]

Surely you don't mean to say pak> Australia in odis? Do you?

Obviously never but we did put up a good fight thats all what i meant!

 

[IcedCoffee]

What happened to SA batting in the Bangalore and the Delhi tests?

And you're right. I rate English batting slightly above India, but they're too inconsistent. They drew with frigging west indies away, was smashed in Australia away, lost to SL at home and drew with NZ at home, while getting beaten comprehensively in the UAE. Yes, they did well to win in SA, but we should remember that the side they beat lacked Steyn, Philander, Kallis, Smith (all of these played against us) and a team containing van Zyl, Vilas, Viljoen, all of whom weren't test standard, and with Amla and Faf, both of whom couldn't buy a run before the series. This is definitely not the hallmark of a dominant test team.

That said, NZ and to some extent, England, probably have managed to compete the best away from their home. Still I would wait before they tour India before reaching my conclusions. And yes, they should be ready for rank turners, given the fact that they don't think twice before dishing out greentops to the Asian teams.

I'd put that due to lack of confidence really, and a woefully out of form top-middle order barely barring AB and Edgar. In the 2nd test, you might have noticed, as Gavaskar highlighted that the Saffers were playing for the spin and they got bowled by straight forward deliveries. Still, that's on them, and India would have won that test too. Btw Steyn and Philander only played a single test. Also, Kallis and Smith weren't part of the team either. Throw in the doctored pitches and well you get a better picture of the story. Granted, I've already said my piece on this above, that India is still very formidable at home.

Maybe England are the new Pakistan . On a more serious note, it's not exactly fair to compare them to the Aussies with that 5-0 drubbing as that same Aus side beat the then World's No. 1 (near full strength side too) 2-1 at home. But yes they did embarrass themselves in WI even if you count the fact that they were going through a rebuilding period. With that said, they're a much more formidable side now, and had it not been for YS, maybe the result in UAE would have been different too--if at least more draws (don't forget the first test where Pak escaped).

NZ only managed a draw with Bang in late 2013, but I guess that doesn't say much.

I've already spoken about green pitches. At least they provide an even balance compared to flat phattas and rank turners.

 

[street cricketer]

I'd put that due to lack of confidence really, and a woefully out of form top-middle order barely barring AB and Edgar. In the 2nd test, you might have noticed, as Gavaskar highlighted that the Saffers were playing for the spin and they got bowled by straight forward deliveries. Still, that's on them, and India would have won that test too.

You're referring to the first test. Eventhough the pitch looked like a rank turner, many batsmen of both sides got out playing for turn when there wasn't as much turn.

Bangalore was an out and out true pitch and yet they capitulated there in the 1st innings. I wouldn't put it down to lack of confidence as it was just the 2nd match of the series.

Btw Steyn and Philander only played a single test. Also, Kallis and Smith weren't part of the team either. Throw in the doctored pitches and well you get a better picture of the story. Granted, I've already said my piece on this above, that India is still very formidable at home.

I was talking about India's tour of SA in 2013. SA were clearly the 2nd best in the India tour for whatever reasons and it isn't India's fault that they have got better spinners than them.

Maybe England are the new Pakistan . On a more serious note, it's not exactly fair to compare them to the Aussies with that 5-0 drubbing as that same Aus side beat the then World's No. 1 (near full strength side too) 2-1 at home. But yes they did embarrass themselves in WI even if you count the fact that they were going through a rebuilding period. With that said, they're a much more formidable side now, and had it not been for YS, maybe the result in UAE would have been different too--if at least more draws (don't forget the first test where Pak escaped).

Yes, they were different and so was the Indian team which lost to England at home. It contained 6 passengers (over the hill players) in that side. Still it is brought up when India's records are discussed.

NZ only managed a draw with Bang in late 2013, but I guess that doesn't say much.

NZ drew with Pakistan at their home, something not many teams have done. They drew with England in their home too. So they have performed well in swing and turning conditions. They competed well in Adelaide, and perhaps the only disappointment was that they capitulated in Brisbane (even India performed better than them with a lesser bowling attack). Still, their major test is at home to Australia and away to India.

I've already spoken about green pitches. At least they provide an even balance compared to flat phattas and rank turners.

I will argue that a green top will do a damage which at most times is irreparable for the team that bats in the first innings.

A greentop usually has conditions that assist swing to a great extent in the first day and it flattens gradually. So when the side that bats first is cleaned up for around 150 or 200 by the first day and the opposition goes on to make use of the good batting conditions to make 350 or 400, what chance does the other side have when it concedes a lead of around 200?

With rank turners, the conditions gradually deteriorate and is equally difficult during the 2nd, 3rd and the 4th innings. A good batsman can make runs there as KP played that famous innings at Mumbai to turn the series on its head.

 

[PCP_1]

Total Pwnage.

 

[IcedCoffee]

You're referring to the first test. Eventhough the pitch looked like a rank turner, many batsmen of both sides got out playing for turn when there wasn't as much turn.

Bangalore was an out and out true pitch and yet they capitulated there in the 1st innings. I wouldn't put it down to lack of confidence as it was just the 2nd match of the series.



I was talking about India's tour of SA in 2013. SA were clearly the 2nd best in the India tour for whatever reasons and it isn't India's fault that they have got better spinners than them.



Yes, they were different and so was the Indian team which lost to England at home. It contained 6 passengers (over the hill players) in that side. Still it is brought up when India's records are discussed.



NZ drew with Pakistan at their home, something not many teams have done. They drew with England in their home too. So they have performed well in swing and turning conditions. They competed well in Adelaide, and perhaps the only disappointment was that they capitulated in Brisbane (even India performed better than them with a lesser bowling attack). Still, their major test is at home to Australia and away to India.



I will argue that a green top will do a damage which at most times is irreparable for the team that bats in the first innings.

A greentop usually has conditions that assist swing to a great extent in the first day and it flattens gradually. So when the side that bats first is cleaned up for around 150 or 200 by the first day and the opposition goes on to make use of the good batting conditions to make 350 or 400, what chance does the other side have when it concedes a lead of around 200?

With rank turners, the conditions gradually deteriorate and is equally difficult during the 2nd, 3rd and the 4th innings. A good batsman can make runs there as KP played that famous innings at Mumbai to turn the series on its head.

Fair enough, but you could also argue that with rank turners, the focus of the game is mostly on the spinners, and with nothing in it for the batsmen or fast bowlers. Btw the pitch kp scored on was no where near as bad as the mohali one.

With green wickets, it's a test for a batsman's patience and temperament. Watch Vijay in England and to an extent even pujara in SA. It's about how well you can leave the balls outside your off stump in swinging conditions for the first hour to 2 hours. And then capitalize. Btw If it's really green, then it will affect even the opposition's first innings. Then with spin coming into it, the side batting first will be at an advantage once they've passed the initial hurdle, as they won't be playing on a 5th day pitch with lots of turn.

 

[Abdullah]

hindsight is a beautiful thing mate, hahaha, and do you really believe that we as a no. 8th ranked team or better than world champion and no.1 australian team in ODIs, than if you really do it is height of delusion.

It was said in jest bro. But I do have the feeling that good times are around the corner in odis

 

[Energetic]

Only Bangladesh and South Africa can challenge and beat NZ in NZ in my opinion. South Africa has the batsman to beat NZ and BD has the bowlers to beat NZ. I remember that unbeaten 100 by Mahmudullah in swinging conditions – breathtaking stuff.

 

[Zeshan547]

Only Bangladesh and South Africa can challenge and beat NZ in NZ in my opinion. South Africa has the batsman to beat NZ and BD has the bowlers to beat NZ. I remember that unbeaten 100 by Mahmudullah in swinging conditions – breathtaking stuff.

what next, all teams should forfeit their matches against bangla in asia cup and world t20, due to fear of mighty thrashing from mighty bangla team and bangladesh should be crowned as champions without even playing because such is their class and history. Now happy?

 

[SL_Fan]

This is what happens when you play on absolute roads for months on end. You forget that batting is not just going on the front foot and trying to whack it all over the park from ball one.

 

[trogger]

I wish we could blame it all on the pitch having a lot of life but truth is it was pretty much another road, was more to do with actually having to chase a large total actually defended by a decent bowling attack that we couldn't handle.

 

[street cricketer]

I wish we could blame it all on the pitch having a lot of life but truth is it was pretty much another road, was more to do with actually having to chase a large total actually defended by a decent bowling attack that we couldn't handle.

Got spoilt by our bowling eh