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Osama Bin Laden is DEAD

Cracket said:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/02/dianne-feinstein-bin-laden-pakistan-six-years_n_856670.html


The World is waiting to see how Pakistan/ISI explains this now. Good luck!
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More then this...the world, read fatuously gloating indians, will also be waiting to see how US will continue to supply it's 130K military + 100K mercenaries in Afghanistan without Pakistan's cooperation...

The 800 pound gorilla that Indians in their idiocy are conveniently ignoring here is that US has lost the war in Afghanistan and the last thing they'd be interesting in doing would be muck up their exit from the theater without incurring further losses...

Osama's death is a non-event, it won't change anything on the ground...
 
saqlain said:
I think that is one area where Pakistan will have difficult time.
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He was in one area for six years, 2 hours away from a US embassy and not too far away from a US military presence in Pakistan.

How did they not know he was there? I call BS on that article, or America is even more inept than Pakistan.

Seems that a few people here are more worried about Pakistan's ineptitude and not America's. Why have none of you questioned the CIA and it's intelligence gathering capabilities?
 
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duostyle said:
Alright. But Osama was a terrorist. What else did they expect from him? His way was wrong. But does the US doing the exact same thing make it right? Doesn't that make the US Govt as much of a terrorist organization as Al-Qaeda?

I saw an American woman on TV say she was glad that they finally 'killed the monster' and I thought to myself, does she know at what cost? Who is the bigger 'monster' here?

Ps. It's getting quite late here, I'll come back to any reply to this tomorrow.
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You can't blame her for that reaction (You will not realize unless you lost your child in that manner).

What were you expecting her to say " Please let Osama live happily ?"
 
im just glad they've finally decided to "kill" him. Now if all the closet Osama supporters would stop drawing Osama vs US analogies and move forward on this whole issue. Fact remains that Pakistan harbors terrorists and is successful in doing so solely because of the abutment support these terrorists gather in that region...
 
LowkeyP said:
He was in one area for six years, 2 hours away from a US embassy and not too far away from a US military presence in Pakistan.

How did they not know he was there? I call BS on that article, or America is even more inept than Pakistan.

Seems that a few people here are more worried about Pakistan's ineptitude and not America's. Why have none of you questioned the CIA and it's intelligence gathering capabilities?
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I see what you mean. If the US soldiers would have been in Pakistan and doing operation from door to door and they had missed then they should take the blame. But that is not the case my friend. Despite some military presence inside Pakistan, US had to rely on Pakistan's ISI for some cooperation. As you know, both of us have no intel on this matter as we are only reacting based on what is stated in the media. It is possible that US did not get some of the first hand intel or may not have taken the intel as a credible one in order to act earlier. It seems like this time they had the intel and they went ahead and got their man. The real question is if the Pakistanis knew about this or not, that is up for contention.
 
Btw I'm just wondering about a comment some other poster made that "if India had breached borders like USA there would be war"...so is that pretty much admitting USA can do whatever it wants in Pakistan?

Apparently the government didn't know USA will breach the border to get their guy, but no resistance from Pakistan. Why would Pakistan bend over to give USA whatever it needs but if any other country asks the same its war?
 
saqlain said:
I see what you mean. If the US soldiers would have been in Pakistan and doing operation from door to door and they had missed then they should take the blame. But that is not the case my friend. Despite some military presence inside Pakistan, US had to rely on Pakistan's ISI for some cooperation. As you know, both of us have no intel on this matter as we are only reacting based on what is stated in the media. It is possible that US did not get some of the first hand intel or may not have taken the intel as a credible one in order to act earlier. It seems like this time they had the intel and they went ahead and got their man. The real question is if the Pakistanis knew about this or not, that is up for contention.
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Thing is, the US have been searching for OBL more so than anybody else - ISI included. How is it that, if he was in the same place for six years, they had no idea?

That's more of a blunder than anything.
 
Cracket said:
Btw I'm just wondering about a comment some other poster made that "if India had breached borders like USA there would be war"...so is that pretty much admitting USA can do whatever it wants in Pakistan?

Apparently the government didn't know USA will breach the border to get their guy, but no resistance from Pakistan. Why would Pakistan bend over to give USA whatever it needs but if any other country asks the same its war?
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Most of the poeple would say yes pakistan should not allowed US or any other country to attack within their Border but the Problem is Pakistan is Controlled by Millitry people and US is the only country which offers them $$$$
 
Cracket said:
Btw I'm just wondering about a comment some other poster made that "if India had breached borders like USA there would be war"...so is that pretty much admitting USA can do whatever it wants in Pakistan?

Apparently the government didn't know USA will breach the border to get their guy, but no resistance from Pakistan. Why would Pakistan bend over to give USA whatever it needs but if any other country asks the same its war?
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There is a difference between US and the rest of the world including India. US has the courage and the means to get everything done anywhere. I don't think India has that kind of courage and means to do it. Terrorists go in Mumbai and kill innocent people and India knowing who did it can not do anything. But that is not the case with the US :)
 
Garuda said:
You can't blame her for that reaction (You will not realize unless you lost your child in that manner).

What were you expecting her to say " Please let Osama live happily ?"
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So that woman had lost a child in that manner...

how about half a million iraqi children of Albright's worth the cost fame...do the kins of these children have a right to retribution...if so, whoever started this since half a million dead iraqi children precludes 9/11 and who indeed is the biggest monster...
 
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spiron said:
@shaykh1985

I dont for even a second believe that Osama killed is going to put to rest the militancy.
Its a far bigger problem and even if it could, i dont think US will let this thing die.
they need it to assert themselves just like the issue of WMD in Iraq.. and even the weapon manufacturing companies in US need this war to rage on to keep themselves in business.
Today its Osama, tomorrow it might be Somalia.

Pakistan wouldnt have led the operation to kill Osama because the excuse of ISI having 'some' elements is a total farce. ISI is a well oiled unit which has never seen any chinks nor any aberration.. they are fully involved in double dealing and no such unit will want to let go of the biggest asset. They bloody would be aware that showing an operation in a place which is heart to a military academy and retired army personnels and even so much deep in Pakistan will only be akin to shooting themselves in the foot.
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My bad bro...it wasnt your post I thought was bizarre...quoted you by mistake...

I agree with what you have written...perpetual war = money and also makes a nation dependent on the US...

Pakistan could very well become another Somalia in terms of being anarchaic...and could go down the same way as Libya into a civil conflict that will be never ending...

And agreed in terms of your second point...having a strong role in the murder of Osama will only make Pakistan less stable...thing is their current story hasn't fooled anybody so the instability has occurred anyway...
 
LowkeyP said:
Thing is, the US have been searching for OBL more so than anybody else - ISI included. How is it that, if he was in the same place for six years, they had no idea?

That's more of a blunder than anything.
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As you know it is still too early into this. In the past US has failed at few important points where they could not capitalize on good intel, according to the reports in the media. Questions may be raised why the US failed for six years. Don't you think that there will be questions on Pakistan's ISI for the very same matter??
 
saqlain said:
There is a difference between US and the rest of the world including India. US has the courage and the means to get everything done anywhere. I don't think India has that kind of courage and means to do it. Terrorists go in Mumbai and kill innocent people and India knowing who did it can not do anything. But that is not the case with the US :)
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Hey I won't disagree with that.

But at the same time, I think there India would take it lying down if US ever crossed Indian borders without permission like that.

I know USA is boss...the most powerful force on the planet so yeah they pretty much deserve to have things their way then I guess.
 
Cracket said:
Btw I'm just wondering about a comment some other poster made that "if India had breached borders like USA there would be war"...so is that pretty much admitting USA can do whatever it wants in Pakistan?

Apparently the government didn't know USA will breach the border to get their guy, but no resistance from Pakistan. Why would Pakistan bend over to give USA whatever it needs but if any other country asks the same its war?
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LOL this is under the assumption (false) that Pakistan did not know about the USA sending three helicopters into their territories (lol). Mission would have been impossible without Pakistan co-operation ... the President himself stated this but still people continue to spew this line of thinking :irfan
 
I think most of My Indian Friends on this Forum are missing the Point

Who Told US that OBL was at that Residence?
Lets assume Osma was living there for 5 years How on earth nobody seen him?

and US is that Inept that they couldnt find him in these all 5 years?
 
PerfectionPersonified said:
I think most of My Indian Friends on this Forum are missing the Point

Who Told US that OBL was at that Residence?
Lets assume Osma was living there for 5 years How on earth nobody seen him?

and US is that Inept that they couldnt find him in these all 5 years?
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Have you been reading the accounts of how the US intelligence deciphered the clues? Maybe you should before commenting.
 
Originally Posted by Cracket
Sorry but I always knew osama was in pak. And not even underground but in the open.

Also I read that Obama gave the order without permission from Pak. The forces just entered Pak like that, executed Osama, by this time Pak was just prepping dogfighters when all was said and done to check out who entered their country like that!

If only india could learn a lesson here... this is how you kill daewood.
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Keep dreaming. Whenever you ever cross our border, it will be dealt with full force and your planes will be shot down. Try it.
 
Unfortunately for India, they are not US and not someone we look up to for Aids. So until they are a big force as US, they will just have to dream about entering Pakistan.
 
PerfectionPersonified said:
I think most of My Indian Friends on this Forum are missing the Point

Who Told US that OBL was at that Residence?
Lets assume Osma was living there for 5 years How on earth nobody seen him?

and US is that Inept that they couldnt find him in these all 5 years?
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Well you really think that OBL was going out for a walk in Abbottabad city every evening and give autographs to every child???? Obviously he was living there in secrecy and that is how he has survived all these years.
 
saqlain said:
Well you really think that OBL was going out for a walk in Abbottabad city every evening and give autographs to every child???? Obviously he was living there in secrecy and that is how he has survived all these years.
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Interesting ---Secrecy? for 5 years?---I dont buy this--
 
To those who believe the ISI, as an organization, was 'harboring' him, can you please explain to me why they would 'harbor' such a prized asset at such an open, militarily unsecured location relatively close to the Afghan border?
 
Most of the indians Are happy not because Osama died more than that "PAKISTAN" issue he live d in Pakistan bla bla .Pakistan's army bla bla .
 
saajidrox said:
Most of the indians Are happy not because Osama died more than that "PAKISTAN" issue he live d in Pakistan bla bla .Pakistan's army bla bla .
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Well of course, takes a news like this to bring them out of the IPL world...
 
Khabri420 said:
Well of course, takes a news like this to bring them out of the IPL world...
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Interesting a topic like this shows the real IQ and Intellignce of some indians who really like to Bash anything against pakistan ..BTW if a Boat can cross 25 redars from Karachi to Mumbai without intercepting Osama Bin Laden ws living by himself as well
 
Guys, don't be surprised if US comes up with some sort of picture or video evidence tomorrow...They are working on it. (fake evidence obv)
 
duostyle said:
Now, my question is, was it worth it?
Does his death justify everything the US has done since 9/11? All the countries invaded and ruined, the thousands of deaths of innocent people in the process, etc. Was all this worth the revenge for those 3k lives lost on 9/11?

Because when I take a step back and look at the bigger picture, I see that the world has lost a lot more lives just to avenge the death of those on 9/11... It was a sad day but look at the mess they've made since then and how much they've ruined. Can anyone justify that the lives of those Americans were worth more than the ones in Afghanistan/Iraq or Pakistan?

Just to clarify, I don't support extremists/terrorists or Osama. :)
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Errr how many countries is that? Do you mean 2 countries, one of which is going to come out of this far more prosperous than it previously was and the other country which is basically ruined anyway? Or do you have some other countries which were invaded that we are not aware of?

I don't think avenging was ever the motive, the motive was to ensure terrorists did not have the support of sovereign states. Whatever you think of that motive.

It's a valid question, whether all the death was worth it, but not the way you have framed it. Of course the flip side of that question is what was the US supposed to do, just sit there and accept 9-11 without any action?
 
Random Aussie said:
It's a valid question, whether all the death was worth it, but not the way you have framed it. Of course the flip side of that question is what was the US supposed to do, just sit there and accept 9-11 without any action?
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They could have taken better steps into solving the issue, not by killing thousands of civilians...how does that make them less of terrorists?
 
Random Aussie said:
Errr how many countries is that? Do you mean 2 countries, one of which is going to come out of this far more prosperous than it previously was and the other country which is basically ruined anyway? Or do you have some other countries which were invaded that we are not aware of?

I don't think avenging was ever the motive, the motive was to ensure terrorists did not have the support of sovereign states. Whatever you think of that motive.

It's a valid question, whether all the death was worth it, but not the way you have framed it. Of course the flip side of that question is what was the US supposed to do, just sit there and accept 9-11 without any action?
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How would either Iraq or Afghanistan come out of this more prosperous? They are demolished states. The 'motive' never had any real meat behind it, as there was no threat of terrorists having the support of sovereign states (unless you believe Afghanistan Taliban were going to align with Al-Qaeda and unleash hell with a flurry of rocks)

I suppose the most feasible option would've been for the USA not to invade Afghanistan and breach the basis of international relations (state sovereignty) for what was essentially a man-hunt.
 
Random Aussie said:
Errr how many countries is that? Do you mean 2 countries, one of which is going to come out of this far more prosperous than it previously was and the other country which is basically ruined anyway? Or do you have some other countries which were invaded that we are not aware of?

I don't think avenging was ever the motive, the motive was to ensure terrorists did not have the support of sovereign states. Whatever you think of that motive.

It's a valid question, whether all the death was worth it, but not the way you have framed it. Of course the flip side of that question is what was the US supposed to do, just sit there and accept 9-11 without any action?
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So basically two invasions and destructions of formerly sovereign states (bad though the Taliban and Saddam were, they were more prosperous and successful leaders of their respective states than the puppets who have succeeded) is somehow LESS than 3000 Americans dying? Sure that was an atrocity, but how does it justify in any way the atrocity that's been taking place since? Unless I'm mistaken, at least 5-7 times more civilians have died in the ensuing conflict in Iraq and Afghanistan since. You telling me the life of an American civilian is worth the lives of 5 or more Iraqi or Afghan civilians?

Invading Afghanistan because the Taliban were extending their misled tribalistic sympathies to OBL. Yep, that's a good idea. Invade and raze a country because there's a guy in there who once bombed you. A full decade of unjustified murders before you catch him. Justice, American style. And what of Iraq and the non-existent WMDs?

Epicly :facepalm:worthy comment from a usually somewhat sensible poster. Like 2 unjustified invasions under pretences of 2 countries is somehow less contemptible than a lunatic bombing a district of New York. Both are contemptible, but the fact that you can vouch for one is just stunning and sad.
 
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USA Killed thousand of Innocent Civilians and destroyed Iraq
USA Killed thousand of Innocent Civilians and destroyed Afghanistan
USA Killed thousand of Innocent Civilians and destroyed Vietnam
USA Killed thousand of Innocent Civilians in and destroyed Japan (The only country to use Nuclear Missile

USA made Bin Laden destroyed him and yet Pakistan is the Victom How ironic is this

BTW what is USA military presence doing in 157 Countries all over the world?

You have to be really stupid to say they just visiting around
 
Why is Poison so awesome? I'm not going to be posting my viewpoints for a little bit but this guy hits the nail on its head then proceeds to kick it into the ground. Well done brah.
 
Poison said:
How would either Iraq or Afghanistan come out of this more prosperous? They are demolished states. The 'motive' never had any real meat behind it, as there was no threat of terrorists having the support of sovereign states (unless you believe Afghanistan Taliban were going to align with Al-Qaeda and unleash hell with a flurry of rocks)

I suppose the most feasible option would've been for the USA not to invade Afghanistan and breach the basis of international relations (state sovereignty) for what was essentially a man-hunt.
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Iraq is not a demolished state, it will become quite prosperous in time.

Whether the motive had substance or not is a matter of opinion, I wasn't supporting it by stating it, just stating it.

Have to disagree with you on Afghanistan. Not invading Afghanistan was not an option post 9-11. The one thing that would have stopped the war was if the Taliban handed over Bin Laden, they refused (and loved their brief notoriety too) knowing that their refusal meant the effective destruction of their country.

Of course on here nothing is the fault of the Taliban, everything is the fault of evil America. The truth is usually a bit more nuanced.
 
Some People Need to just Need to Stick to Cricketing Forum because they make such Stupid Comments on other issues that you just wonder HOW OLD they are...
 
LowkeyP said:
Why is Poison so awesome? I'm not going to be posting my viewpoints for a little bit but this guy hits the nail on its head then proceeds to kick it into the ground. Well done brah.
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+1. Simply love reading the chap's posts; class poster MashaAllah
 
1137moiz said:
So basically two invasions and destructions of formerly sovereign states (bad though the Taliban and Saddam were, they were more prosperous and successful leaders of their respective states than the puppets who have succeeded) is somehow LESS than 3000 Americans dying? Sure that was an atrocity, but how does it justify in any way the atrocity that's been taking place since? Unless I'm mistaken, at least 5-7 times more civilians have died in the ensuing conflict in Iraq and Afghanistan since. You telling me the life of an American civilian is worth the lives of 5 or more Iraqi or Afghan civilians?

Invading Afghanistan because the Taliban were extending their misled tribalistic sympathies to OBL. Yep, that's a good idea. Invade and raze a country because there's a guy in there who once bombed you. A full decade of unjustified murders before you catch him. Justice, American style. And what of Iraq and the non-existent WMDs?

Epicly :facepalm:worthy comment from a usually somewhat sensible poster. Like 2 unjustified invasions under pretences of 2 countries is somehow less contemptible than a lunatic bombing a district of New York. Both are contemptible, but the fact that you can vouch for one is just stunning and sad.
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I will keep this short and sweet. Your standard rant has absolutely nothing to do with what I posted, keep your irrelevant junk to your own posts and don't quote mine then lie about what I said.

I didn't say anything was a good idea nor did I support anything. I just asked a question and gave a rationale. On here with the pretendiban that equates to support I guess. So facepalm yo'self, fool.
 
PerfectionPersonified said:
Some People Need to just Need to Stick to Cricketing Forum because they make such Stupid Comments on other issues that you just wonder HOW OLD they are...
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Not necessarily nice what you said, but I agree with it. Like you have to be really naive to believe everything in the media, without making an effort to look into it and finding proofs. AFG and Iraq are are more prosperous deserves this :facepalm:
 
kkmix said:
Not necessarily nice what you said, but I agree with it. Like you have to be really naive to believe everything in the media, without making an effort to look into it and finding proofs. AFG and Iraq are are more prosperous deserves this :facepalm:
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Probably a waste of time arguing with so obviously brickheaded a fellow, but the fact that he can post this, as if the USA had no choice other than to invade 2 countries hunting one guy who ended up being nowhere near those areas while, apparently, the Taliban had all the options in the world:

Of course the flip side of that question is what was the US supposed to do, just sit there and accept 9-11 without any action
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then jumping on his high horse as though he'd been misquoted, shows that he's more than just your run-of-the-mill moron: he's a holier-than-thou moron.
 
If only the americans had done this operation to nab bin laden, which amounts to nothing more then a police action ten years ago, america would not have been bankrupt and it's empire and economic prowess would have been in tact...more importantly hundreds of thousands of innocents would not have perished nor three countries in ruins...
 
careful guys, don't go anywhere near logic especially if it amounts to the slightest criticism of America's foreign policy...that makes you a member of Random Aussie's :quote: Pretendiban :quote:
 
1137moiz said:
Probably a waste of time arguing with so obviously brickheaded a fellow, but the fact that he can post this, as if the USA had no choice other than to invade 2 countries hunting one guy who ended up being nowhere near those areas while, apparently, the Taliban had all the options in the world:



then jumping on his high horse as though he'd been misquoted, shows that he's more than just your run-of-the-mill moron: he's a holier-than-thou moron.
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Stay Tuned he would be making a firely Unrelated reply..Which a normal person would just applaud for being Stupid
 
Random Aussie said:
Iraq is not a demolished state, it will become quite prosperous in time.

Whether the motive had substance or not is a matter of opinion, I wasn't supporting it by stating it, just stating it.

Have to disagree with you on Afghanistan. Not invading Afghanistan was not an option post 9-11. The one thing that would have stopped the war was if the Taliban handed over Bin Laden, they refused (and loved their brief notoriety too) knowing that their refusal meant the effective destruction of their country.

Of course on here nothing is the fault of the Taliban, everything is the fault of evil America. The truth is usually a bit more nuanced.
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Why will Iraq become prosperous in time? Natural resources which have always been there. Perhaps I smell another motive here :yk

Give me evidence that the Taliban even knew where Bin Laden was. Bin Laden was not some leader of the Afghani people. He is a SAUDI citizen, he's not even an Afghani. It's perfectly rational for a nation state to refuse to 'hand over' a claimed 'terrorist' with a country they have never and will never align with.

The Taliban were NOT at fault for anything related to 9/11. The Afghani people were NOT responsible for the alleged actions of a supposed Saudi terrorist mastermind on their shores. Even if you accept that Bin Laden was the mastermind of 9/11 it's completely and utterly irrational to justify attacking and destroying a nation state in search of one man. But then again, Afghanistan is also one of the richest places on earth in terms of natural resources. Perhaps another motive :yk
 
PerfectionPersonified said:
Interesting a topic like this shows the real IQ and Intellignce of some indians who really like to Bash anything against pakistan ..BTW if a Boat can cross 25 redars from Karachi to Mumbai without intercepting Osama Bin Laden ws living by himself as well
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hahhahaha good one :))) ...love they deseptive way some indian are using to bash pakistan on this osama matter .....:akhtar
 
Poison said:
Why will Iraq become prosperous in time? Natural resources which have always been there. Perhaps I smell another motive here :yk

Give me evidence that the Taliban even knew where Bin Laden was. Bin Laden was not some leader of the Afghani people. He is a SAUDI citizen, he's not even an Afghani. It's perfectly rational for a nation state to refuse to 'hand over' a claimed 'terrorist' with a country they have never and will never align with.

The Taliban were NOT at fault for anything related to 9/11. The Afghani people were NOT responsible for the alleged actions of a supposed Saudi terrorist mastermind on their shores. Even if you accept that Bin Laden was the mastermind of 9/11 it's completely and utterly irrational to justify attacking and destroying a nation state in search of one man. But then again, Afghanistan is also one of the richest places on earth in terms of natural resources. Perhaps another motive :yk
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bro let him believe what he wants to ...its usless debating most of westners ..they are bit over brainwashed by the media ...in there world everything mr president says is %100 truth
 
I'm a bit surprised to be honest - most of the Aussie mates I have actually would support RA's view, as I've realised in the past few days after discussions post-Osama death. I thought the majority opinion was that the wars were both unjustified but I guess I underestimated the influence of Fox News :inzi
 
:))) :))) I know exactly what you mean in regards to the Current Affairs programs, littered with stories about how one dog barked at a neighbour and now they want legal action, and magic solutions to obesity :))
 
Poison said:
I'm a bit surprised to be honest - most of the Aussie mates I have actually would support RA's view, as I've realised in the past few days after discussions post-Osama death. I thought the majority opinion was that the wars were both unjustified but I guess I underestimated the influence of Fox News :inzi
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You are smarter than that mate, I haven't given my view anywhere. Except on the subject of other posters. :)
 
Poison said:
Why will Iraq become prosperous in time? Natural resources which have always been there. Perhaps I smell another motive here :yk

The post I responded to stated Iraq was ruined. My point was that it is not ruined. So you seem to be agreeing with me here.

Give me evidence that the Taliban even knew where Bin Laden was. Bin Laden was not some leader of the Afghani people. He is a SAUDI citizen, he's not even an Afghani. It's perfectly rational for a nation state to refuse to 'hand over' a claimed 'terrorist' with a country they have never and will never align with.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/sns-worldtrade-taliban-chi,0,2638022.story
Whether you believe that or not, the important thing is that the US people believed it, so given that the US govt could not not act.

The Taliban were NOT at fault for anything related to 9/11. The Afghani people were NOT responsible for the alleged actions of a supposed Saudi terrorist mastermind on their shores. Even if you accept that Bin Laden was the mastermind of 9/11 it's completely and utterly irrational to justify attacking and destroying a nation state in search of one man. But then again, Afghanistan is also one of the richest places on earth in terms of natural resources. Perhaps another motive :yk
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The reason given was to stop the Taliban harbouring Al Qaeda members. Whether it was the real reason who knows.

If you want to believe OBL had nothing to do with 9-11 and it was all a plot in order to launch 2 wars to enable the US to grab natural resources that is up to you. I dont know either way, I am just giving the rationale for action as it was explained in the Western media.

Of course on here that means I am supporter of the US and the Pretendiban are going to send me a suicide email or something similar.....
 
I say let's invade every country in the world, that would make the world more "prosperous" :)))
 
Random Aussie said:
The reason given was to stop the Taliban harbouring Al Qaeda members. Whether it was the real reason who knows.

If you want to believe OBL had nothing to do with 9-11 and it was all a plot in order to launch 2 wars to enable the US to grab natural resources that is up to you. I dont know either way, I am just giving the rationale for action as it was explained in the Western media.

Of course on here that means I am supporter of the US and the Pretendiban are going to send me a suicide email or something similar.....
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I'm not arguing that .... I'm not a conspiracy theorist as such in that regard; I see this argument may end up going in circles as we're disagreeing on a key discretionary point.

And you have provided a viewpoint mate, the viewpoint that the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq are justified.
 
Poison said:
I'm a bit surprised to be honest - most of the Aussie mates I have actually would support RA's view, as I've realised in the past few days after discussions post-Osama death. I thought the majority opinion was that the wars were both unjustified but I guess I underestimated the influence of Fox News :inzi
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Without making it sound like I am defending anyone, can I just say that most "westerners" are always supportive of afganistan war but not Iraq.

there is a difference between 2. No one in right mind can defend iraq war however even most of my pakistani friends reluctantly agree that afganistan war is understandable. debatable but you don't need to be a bloody scientist to see america's point of view.

while so much accusations thrown at US, how about looking at pakistan's role in all of this?

I can not believe this thread is discussing the 2 war's when the obvious question pakistanis should be asking is whether ISI was instrumental in providing safe haven to Osama. Was army worried that the US aid will stop if osama got killed/captured?

were they really looking after pakistani interest?
 
howzzat said:
Without making it sound like I am defending anyone, can I just say that most "westerners" are always supportive of afganistan war but not Iraq.

there is a difference between 2. No one in right mind can defend iraq war however even most of my pakistani friends reluctantly agree that afganistan war is understandable. debatable but you don't need to be a bloody scientist to see america's point of view.
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Eish, the 2nd part of your post is highly debatable at this stage so will wait for the facts to emerge down the track.

I disagree that the Afghan war was justified even in the slightest. Of course this is in hindsight, at the time it may have seemed justified because of the major impact the attack had on people all over the world, I don't think anyone really objected to the US staging the invasion at that time.

But slowly as it emerged that Afghanistan as a nation state had very little influence on the 9/11 attacks, the media line shifted to the 'barbaric' Taliban and the 'liberate the people' front that's been paraded about for the past 4/5 years.

It's a shift from the media perspective which has largely shaped the opinions of individuals today, who don't mind that Osama was never found in Afghanistan but now believe the war was justified anyways because of the Taliban's barbarism. I'm sorry but this cannot stand, it's a CLEAR falsehood which has been used as a front to justify the war. Now that it's emerged (according to the US) that Afghanistan was not the safe haven for Osama, it becomes even more blindingly clear that the war was completely unjustified.

They tried the same shift in media perspective for Iraq, but I guess people weren't as dumb and caught on fairly quickly to what was going on :adnan
 
Jjust thought I would share this diagram of Bin Ladens 'fortress' I came across, apologies if someone has already posted it.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...d-to-bin-laden-compound/article2006541/page1/

When I look at this building design its remarkably similar to how you might design a prison. Now I don't think there's been any official word on how long bin ladens been staying or visiting this place but after looking at its design I struggle to believe it has been built for any other purpose than hiding a massive target. I'm fairly confident this building served no other purpose, and was custom built for bin laden to settle in.
 
Found this quote today, thought it was spectacular, not sure of authenticity.

"I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that."

Martin Luther King Jnr.
 
It is truly sad to see pics of Americans cheering on the streets and celebrating as Bin Laden's death was the greatest thing to ever happen to them. I feel sorry for these ppl as they are just plain ignorant, have no idea of what is going on outside the US.. Killing a Bin Laden wont stop Islamic fundamentalism if only the American public could be wise enuff to stop their government from trying to control the world.....
 
Romali_rotti said:
It is truly sad to see pics of Americans cheering on the streets and celebrating as Bin Laden's death was the greatest thing to ever happen to them. I feel sorry for these ppl as they are just plain ignorant, have no idea of what is going on outside the US.. Killing a Bin Laden wont stop Islamic fundamentalism if only the American public could be wise enuff to stop their government from trying to control the world.....
Click to expand...

What did you think of people celebrating when 9/11 happend and burning the US flag?
 
My dad says he has a gut instinct that India may have joined USA in shooting OBL. Don't be surprised if that comes out.

If it does, Pakistan should bow its head down in shame! Overthrow the leaders
 
No need for the sarcasm. Indeed this was India's chance to screw Pakistan over.

My dad has an extremely good and well-rounded knowledge of politics throughout UK and Pakistan and world affairs and is 60 years old.

So I am quite interested by what he says rather than your dry sarcasm.

Not an attacking post, but a defensive one looking at my father- the man who has taught me so much :)

I am not saying they were involved. But if they were, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised
 
I didn't mean to offend you or your dad in any way champ - nothing against either one of you, I'm sure he's quite the knowledgable fellow.

Thing is, logically, why would India be involved at all? We'd hear about this. As per reports, the Americans didn't even tell the British about this. For Indians to set foot in Pakistan, our ISI would've heard about it.
 
Wasim_Waqar said:
No need for the sarcasm. Indeed this was India's chance to screw Pakistan over.

My dad has an extremely good and well-rounded knowledge of politics throughout UK and Pakistan and world affairs and is 60 years old.

So I am quite interested by what he says rather than your dry sarcasm.

Not an attacking post, but a defensive one looking at my father- the man who has taught me so much :)

I am not saying they were involved. But if they were, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised
Click to expand...

With due respect to your father i would like to point it out the India dont have the guts to do such a operation on its own soil.
 
Not a chance Wasim_Waqar - first of all, all Indians are accountants or call centre operators, not sure they would've been recruited by the USA. Secondly (on a more serious note) I strongly doubt the USA would seek help from Indians for help in such an important operation (no offense to Indian posters, but the Indian army isn't world renowned for having super-commandos or anything)
 
Poison said:
Not a chance Wasim_Waqar - first of all, all Indians are accountants or call centre operators, not sure they would've been recruited by the USA. Secondly (on a more serious note) I strongly doubt the USA would seek help from Indians for help in such an important operation (no offense to Indian posters, but the Indian army isn't world renowned for having super-commandos or anything)
Click to expand...

All Indians are as much accountants and call center operators as all *zip* (I shouldn't have said that, comment removed). Thanks for the stereotyping.

On a serious note, yes, India partnering US on operation Osama looks completely unlikely. In all ways.
 
Last edited:
Garuda said:
You can't blame her for that reaction (You will not realize unless you lost your child in that manner).

What were you expecting her to say " Please let Osama live happily ?"
Click to expand...

I'm not blaming her. I'm just curious if she knows what her country has done in the past 10 years to get to this 'monster'. Her reaction is understandable, but I'm sure there are tons of other non-american mothers who would use the same term for the US.

Just ironic that their government is now calling Bin Laden a monster but when you compare what they have done to what he did on that day, it makes them look like the bigger monsters.

Some good posts by moiz, kkmix and Poison. And that quote by MLK just sums up how I personally feel about this.
 
Wasim_Waqar said:
My dad says he has a gut instinct that India may have joined USA in shooting OBL. Don't be surprised if that comes out.

If it does, Pakistan should bow its head down in shame! Overthrow the leaders
Click to expand...


What does your father base this hunch on?

I mean the Indian government does not even have the balls to execute convicted terrorists (Afzal Guru) so I doubt they could even think of being part of an attack like this across the border. They just don't have the guts.
 
Some hilarious headlines were featured on Letterman last night:

"Rot in Hell Osama!"

"We got him: US Nails the *******"

I'm sure if the person and country was switched the response would still be the same. What a terrible world we live in.
 
Gabbar Singh said:
What does your father base this hunch on?

I mean the Indian government does not even have the balls to execute convicted terrorists (Afzal Guru) so I doubt they could even think of being part of an attack like this across the border. They just don't have the guts.
Click to expand...

I will let you know when I get home from work.

Amazing if he's right- wouldn't put it past him!
 
The villain of the World has been killed. It will be a moral blow to all the extremists, though not a major operational blow. I surely see this as the beginning of the end. Some people may be skeptical if it is the start of end, but Osama the villain was a face behind whom all the villains got behind morally. Really happy with this news.

Also as I hear reports in Thailand and people talking mostly everybody seems so sure that very senior people in ISI and Pak Army were surely behind that safe house for Osama. For them Osama was a golden goose and why get him killed when the nation gets money for his search

Lastly about the operation, what perfect execution. 90% of equipment in Pak is US origin. US jammed the Radars and flew helicopter at very low levels, and Pak realized only when major part of operation had taken place. USA knew by taht way the saviors in ISI and Pak Army were too late to save Osama and help him escape. Once too late a warning had also come to Pak to stay away from operation and US took the body out of Pak. Brilliant execution

Thank god the biggest villain of the world is gone. Now we should find the villian is Pak set up and get after them. That is how the whole situation in Pak and Afghanistan would be solved
 
jashan83 said:
The villain of the World has been killed. It will be a moral blow to all the extremists, though not a major operational blow. I surely see this as the beginning of the end. Some people may be skeptical if it is the start of end, but Osama the villain was a face behind whom all the villains got behind morally. Really happy with this news.

Also as I hear reports in Thailand and people talking mostly everybody seems so sure that very senior people in ISI and Pak Army were surely behind that safe house for Osama. For them Osama was a golden goose and why get him killed when the nation gets money for his search

Lastly about the operation, what perfect execution. 90% of equipment in Pak is US origin. US jammed the Radars and flew helicopter at very low levels, and Pak realized only when major part of operation had taken place. USA knew by taht way the saviors in ISI and Pak Army were too late to save Osama and help him escape. Once too late a warning had also come to Pak to stay away from operation and US took the body out of Pak. Brilliant execution

Thank god the biggest villain of the world is gone. Now we should find the villian is Pak set up and get after them. That is how the whole situation in Pak and Afghanistan would be solved
Click to expand...



any hardcore proof or just bull@#@$ like most of u indian trolls come to PP for

..1. show proof of alqaidas links with ISI

2. how exectly was osama a golden goose for ISI when alqaida affieleated tarek e taliban is killing more pakistanis then nato soldiers ?

3. proof of US jamming pakistani Radars ? (this is not india where terriorists from pakistan fooled drunk indian army and 25 radars :junaid

4.and lastly ...plz come and get ur villans from pakistan if u have guts ...dont try to compair urself with US ...ur villan search team will be killed after a few mins of entering pakistan unlike mumbai attacks ....:akhtar
 
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