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Pak V India: ODI series , POST DISCUSSION HERE!

hoodis- you have not been here long and still have a lot to learn. I suggest you grow up a bit, and show a bit more maturity.
 
Butt
Afridi
Razzaq
Malik
Inzi
Youhana
Younis
Akmal
Rana
Rao or Sami
Kaneria

Going by the reports this is what they seem to be thinking about. But YK at 5 down is a waste so we might see either Butt or Malik getting dropped (with probably Chairman Hafeez coming in and YK moving up a spot).
 
I don't see much wrong with what he has said.

Anyhow, Malik should bat at 3 or 4 if he has to play. He is wasted 4 down.
 
I dont know who Waheed Khan is, and I dont care who he is.

But it IS rather strange that they are playing Younis by dropping Hafeez, and threby going in with just 5 bowlers in such difficult conditions. It is a VERY strange decision. Is there favoritsm at work here? Possible. Not sure, but possible
 
Marooned said:
I think Waheed Khan gets it right more often than he is credited for. Saleem Altaf continues to cause problems. He is the kebab main hadee which will cause problems not Shereyar Khan.
Click to expand...

I agree with you he has been interfering in matters that do not concern him unnecesserily, You never heard Haroon Rashid giving statements about team selection because he knew that it was not a manager's job to do so, a manager is supposed to over look the team's dealings outside the playing field. He is concerned with press dealings and other such engagements. Saleem Altaf seems to have taken in his own hands to reserect Pakistan cricket.
 
Yes and how many times do you see the second in command (CEO or whatever it is called these days) running around as manager of the team. Has he nothing else to do at the PCB or does he feel the team wouldn't function without him?
 
Love and Theft said:
I dont know who Waheed Khan is, and I dont care who he is.

But it IS rather strange that they are playing Younis by dropping Hafeez, and threby going in with just 5 bowlers in such difficult conditions. It is a VERY strange decision. Is there favoritsm at work here? Possible. Not sure, but possible
Click to expand...

So is this team news confirmed then? I thought it was a mere rumour!
 
malik for YK???

A batsmen whose in bad form now but has done well in odis over last year... his replacement?

i rubbish odi batsmen whose gr8est odi achievement is 100 v the mighty hong kong...

what a choice....
 
"For one he is not impressed with the habit of the coach to be upfront to take credit for any good performance but pass the buck to the captain or find excuses after any bad performance or if things are not going well as has been the case in the first two one-dayers,"

I agree.
 
tapss said:
"For one he is not impressed with the habit of the coach to be upfront to take credit for any good performance but pass the buck to the captain or find excuses after any bad performance or if things are not going well as has been the case in the first two one-dayers,"

I agree.
Click to expand...

When did he pass the buck to the captain?
 
Ask Altaf..

Personally,I hear a lot of Woolmer quotes abt how he did this and that...while Pak wins..
But when Pak loses,its poor Inzi doing all the talking and facing media..
See this again in the first 2 ODI's..Where is BW in the media???But Inzi quotes and interviews are all over the media..Mark my words..just wait till Pak wins-You will see BW quotes all over the place while Inzi will be made to go quiet..BW will take on the media responsibilities..Im pretty sure thats what Altaf means..dont believe me??Just wait till Pak wins!!
 
Is it just me or have the rest of you guys noticed this HUGE AND MIND BOGGLING difference between Pakistani and Indian journalists.

Indian journalists always sing praises of their team and their potential, and criticize fairly but when it comes to Pakistani journalists, its always "judgement day is upon us" attitude etc. The are always cynical and discouraging and try their best to put our national team down, start rumors, distort facts, put their own spin on player statements, and are usually very subjective in their approach.

I am sorry but this article is an embodiment of all thats wrong with Pakistan's cricket journalists.

Its rather shameful.
 
tapss said:
Ask Altaf..

Personally,I hear a lot of Woolmer quotes abt how he did this and that...while Pak wins..
But when Pak loses,its poor Inzi doing all the talking and facing media..
See this again in the first 2 ODI's..Where is BW in the media???But Inzi quotes and interviews are all over the media..Mark my words..just wait till Pak wins-You will see BW quotes all over the place while Inzi will be made to go quiet..BW will take on the media responsibilities..Im pretty sure thats what Altaf means..dont believe me??Just wait till Pak wins!!
Click to expand...

And what makes you think Altaf is all 'good' and should be 'asked'?
Here you go:

Inzamam's bat slipped, says Woolmer

Osman Samiuddin in Visakhapatnam

April 5, 2005



Bob Woolmer spoke after the game on where his team went wrong. Here's what he had to say:


Mahendra Dhoni: played "fantastically well" according to to Bob Woolmer © AFP


On Mahendra Dhoni
He played fantastically well, along with Virender Sehwag today. He is a big hitter of the ball but I don't think we bowled well enough to him and generally in the first hour and a half today. We allowed him to get underneath the ball which you can't do in ODI cricket and if we bowl like this to him again, then he will play fantastically well again.

On where the game was lost
The key to losing the game was our bowling first thing this morning. Later, although we batted well, we lost wickets at crucial stages.

On the reliance on part-time bowlers
In Australia, where the pitches are good, they also bowled well so I don't think it is a question of a wrong strategy. I just think our skill levels haven't been up to the mark in both the games we have played so far.

On missing Younis Khan
I think we are missing him, he is very alive in the field and he keeps the team bubbling but he hasn't been a big part of our ODI team for some time now so he doesn't come in to the team that easily.

On Inzamam's anger at his run-out
He is a very cool person. His bat just slipped out of his hand as he walked back to the pavilion.

On the weather
The weather wasn't as much a factor today as it was in Cochin. I think we had the better conditions fielding in the morning and the Indians had it much worse in the afternoon.

On shuffling the batting order
We shuffled it for obvious reasons with such a big target to chase and even though Afridi didn't score we got it about right. We made nearly 300 with six overs to go so I think the batting worked well and our run-rate was about right throughout. The only problem was that we lost wickets at crucial junctures.

On taking positives from the game
Yousuf Youhana batted really well today and I think in the field we were committed; we chased hard and were determined. Rana Naveed-ul-Hasan bowled fantastically well today as well.

On why Danish Kaneria is not in the ODI team
I think we have enough variety in our attack. Shahid Afridi bowls his leg-spin and Mohammad Hafeez can bat. Arshad Khan has also done well since he has come in.

On where to from here
The euphoria of Bangalore has been shelved and we need to improve now and win the next game if we want to win this series. We have to do all things well at the same time now. In Cochin, we bowled well but batted poorly – 282 was a gettable target. Here we batted well but bowled badly so we need to get it right for the next game. We have not played out ODI game well and we need to bounce back now. The one-day game is a lottery anyway but we just haven't played well enough.

Osman Samiuddin is a freelance journalist based in Karachi.

© Cricinfo
 
tapps- a few examples of woolmer quotes after we win plz!

it cant be that difficult. Try and dig them up.
 
hash-
I can dig up many many interviews anq quotes..There is google adn the famous BW website..But thats besides the point..Thats one interview you posted..That doesnt prove anything..Im in no mood to dig up articles or google them bcos u disagree with my opinion..Thats fine.U can disagree.But Iin my opinon,BW is a past master at milking the media..Poor Inzi is a new learner..He will get blamed for the defeats while BW gets accolades for winning..Thats my view..Take it or leave it..And if you want proof..use google!Sorry, but cant do that for ya!
 
tapss said:
hash-
I can dig up many many interviews anq quotes..There is google adn the famous BW website..But thats besides the point..Thats one interview you posted..That doesnt prove anything..Im in no mood to dig up articles or google them bcos u disagree with my opinion..Thats fine.U can disagree.But Iin my opinon,BW is a past master at milking the media..Poor Inzi is a new learner..He will get blamed for the defeats while BW gets accolades for winning..Thats my view..Take it or leave it..And if you want proof..use google!Sorry, but cant do that for ya!
Click to expand...

Of course you are entitled to your opinion but in order to disagree with someone you have to back yourself up with evidence.

What I know is Inzamam is not very vocal and doenst like public spotlight, he shies away from it. He doesnt issue many statements be it win or loss.
Woolmer however is a good communicator and when you win of course you get carried away and issue more statements than when you lose.
Due to this, sometimes one gets an impression that Woolmer only makes statements and takes credit when the team wins.

I do not agree with the idea that he passes the buck to the team or captain.
 
will leave it then tapps!

when you accuse someone of doing something the burden of proof is on you! ie you have to prove it!

If yuo cannot bring up any examples of Woolmer taking the credit for our victories but blaming someone else when we lose, which is what you were saying, then yuo have not proven it. I will leave it and will assume you are wrong.
 
Waheed Khan is a very very biased journalist and it shows in his articles.

I think Saleem Altaf is also unneccessarily giving media statements. Even if there are differences, it should all be kept in-house.

To me he is just an added distraction for the team and sending a Manager who is also the Director of cricket operations for PCB and a former player was a recipe for disaster to begin with.

--------

Commenting purely on cricket strategy though I feel dropping a specialist batsman and playing a 6th bowler is stupid in Indian conditions.

We need to fight fire with fire... if they score 300+, we need the batting to match it...

5 specialist bowlers plus a couple who can turn their arm over can accomplish the same results in these conditions than 6 specialist bowlers, and the specialist batsman gives you the extra depth in batting to chase/score big totals on these batting paradises
 
I agree on 5 generally though we don't have others who can turn their arm over. I also thought Sami etc were struggling to get 10 overs in (thanks to the heat). Razzak will also struggle if we bat first and he is in for a while with the bat and then asked to bowl 10 overs. A tough call.

But it will also mean dropping Chairman Hafeez.
 
when everyone is fit - 3 pacers upfront must be relied upon to bowl at least their quota plus the 2 all rounders - if we have ppl like yk and salman butt - then we can probably get at best 5 overs from the two combined
 
Also Razzak and Afridi have been bowling better than they have in the past couple of years. Which is an incentive to play 5 bowlers only.
 
awright..didnt really wanna do ths but ere goes..

Woolmer passing the buck by saying that he got wrong advice from "high" sources(what the heck is he for,then)

Woolmer crying after the Banglore win abt racism(whee the heck was he before the win)..taking the chance to attack when Pak won and gain sympathy

Woolmer crying abt players not following his advice..

Woolmer deflecting the disastrous Aussie tour by shifting blame on umpires(yep,he has no responsibility,obviously)

btw..The guy hasnt won a single test series or ODI tournament..Forget abt the winning team..he doesnt even have a plan for a stablized X1!!

http://www.dawn.com/2005/02/23/spt4.htm
http://www.dawn.com/2004/12/17/spt1.htm
http://www.htcricket.com/htcricket/7438_1025320,001600830000.htm
http://www.jang.com.pk/thenews/mar2005-daily/22-03-2005/sports/s18.htm
 
tapss said:
awright..didnt really wanna do ths but ere goes..

Woolmer passing the buck by saying that he got wrong advice from "high" sources(what the heck is he for,then)

Woolmer crying after the Banglore win abt racism(whee the heck was he before the win)..taking the chance to attack when Pak won and gain sympathy

Woolmer crying abt players not following his advice..

Woolmer deflecting the disastrous Aussie tour by shifting blame on umpires(yep,he has no responsibility,obviously)

btw..The guy hasnt won a single test series or ODI tournament..Forget abt the winning team..he doesnt even have a plan for a stablized X1!!

http://www.dawn.com/2005/02/23/spt4.htm
http://www.dawn.com/2004/12/17/spt1.htm
http://www.htcricket.com/htcricket/7438_1025320,001600830000.htm
http://www.jang.com.pk/thenews/mar2005-daily/22-03-2005/sports/s18.htm
Click to expand...


All of the above are very true and he was absolutely justified in issuing those statements .. you can color it any which way you want but that is the fact!
 
tough choice Younis Kahn has to be brought in coz of his terrific batting form of late and we cant have 12 men in the team so one player has to be dropped .

Inorder to mantain the balance of the team we have to drop a batsman for a batsman the specialist batsmen in the team are

Salman Butt: has to play coz he is a specialist opener
YOYO : he is experienced and does play well on flat tracks so he is playing
Inzi: wid over 10000 ODI runs he has to play + he is also our captain

Malik : he loses out here
 
'Woolmer passing the buck by saying that he got wrong advice from "high" sources(what the heck is he for,then)'

If you actually read what he said on his website you wills ee that he didn't pass the buck at all http://www.bobwoolmer.com/articles/51.htm

Woolmer crying after the Banglore win abt racism(whee the heck was he before the win)..taking the chance to attack when Pak won and gain sympathy

well it is true. Waheed Khan, Javed Miandad, Sarfraz Nawaz have all been banging on about how this foreigner can never understand our culture etc.


Woolmer crying abt players not following his advice..

didn't see that anywhere. By the way, Miandad said after the India tour 'if the players don't listen to the coach, what can he do?'

Woolmer deflecting the disastrous Aussie tour by shifting blame on umpires(yep,he has no responsibility,obviously)

once again you are believing what was written in the media. He actually clarified what was said on his website.


You said Woolmer is happy to take the credit when we win but shifts the blame when we lose. I have not seen any evidence of either. He always writed reports and answers questions on his website......whether we have won or lost.

I think in a lot of peoples eyes, Woolmer can do no right. They accuse him of chopping and changnig but the second a lpayer fails in a couple of games they want him out. Furthermore, they also want Woolmer out! Yeh, lets change coach every nine months. Great idea.
 
Woolmer passing the buck by saying that he got wrong advice from "high" sources(what the heck is he for,then)
Click to expand...

Yes he said that was the advice of a lot of people, he also said we batted poorly. If you check the result of that game we had gotten through the tough period (first 15) with just one wicket down. After that we lost simply due to poor batting.

Woolmer crying after the Banglore win abt racism(whee the heck was he before the win)..taking the chance to attack when Pak won and gain sympathy
Click to expand...

Yeah he said that. He used the opp so what?


Woolmer deflecting the disastrous Aussie tour by shifting blame on umpires(yep,he has no responsibility,obviously)
Click to expand...

He pointed out the umpiring issue and very rightly in my opinion. He said it then and said it many times that we did not play well. He said we lost out by not pressing home the advantage when we were ahead. That the bowlers need to support Kaneria more, that the batsmen needed to show more application etc etc

What else should he say? What does Wright say when India lose? Does he say it's my fault and I should be kicked out? No, I think he points out the areas that need improvement just as Woolmer does.

btw..The guy hasnt won a single test series or ODI tournament..Forget abt the winning team..he doesnt even have a plan for a stablized X1!!
Click to expand...

Three test series have been played. Drew against India in India (no mean achievement which will hurt the Indians for a while) and also against Sri Lanka and lost to Australia (as nearly everyone else has).

As with any coach (Wright included) it takes time and the test series in India is a step forward.
 
let me see how long Woolmer survives like this..Will Pak ever have a stable team under him?Will any youngster ever gain confidence playing under his system..I dont think so..lets see!Pak was amongst the top 3 in ODIs' the time Woolmer took over and not bad in tests too..Lets see where he leaves them..But to be honest,Im not too unhappy with the situation as long as he is the coach when he plays Ind.
 
tapss said:
let me see how long Woolmer survives like this..Will Pak ever have a stable team under him?Will any youngster ever gain confidence playing under his system..I dont think so..lets see!Pak was amongst the top 3 in ODIs' the time Woolmer took over and not bad in tests too..Lets see where he leaves them..But to be honest,Im not too unhappy with the situation as long as he is the coach when he plays Ind.
Click to expand...

That is interesting because under him the record against India is 1/1 in tests and 4/2 in odis. Pak had lost 7 out of 10 odi's when Woolmer took over so it is also interesting that you considered them amongst the top 3.

You repeat your stable team comments now and again. But then the argument only stands as far as the opening spots go. The rest of the team has been stable.
 
Tapss..... You are really sending a very strong message out there based on the result of just 2 ODIs that were hugely in favor of the side winning the toss..

Are you sure you want to go through with your stand on this forum? Because things can change pretty rapidly in a couple of days. We may end up saying here "We are not too unhappy with the situation as long as Woolmer is the coach against India when Ganguly is their captain"

:)

Friendly advice, buddy. keep that in mind.
 
I know Marooned.. When he does that, I know how people feel when they get abducted by aliens..

"oh crap what happened.. how did i end up here.... what are they gonna do to me.. did i do something wrong? "


:)
 
This is why its on top of the page, otherwise you will find the front page cluttered with 20 diff threads with the same topic? I wont be merging any more between now and until day after so go crazy if you like !
 
MenInGreen said:
This is why its on top of the page, otherwise you will find the front page cluttered with 20 diff threads with the same topic? I wont be merging any more between now and until day after so go crazy if you like !
Click to expand...


Yes I know it's time for your little 48 hr vacation. It was a 'light-hearted' comment though.

I don't mind threads being merged but I do hate stickies.
 
Marooned said:
MenInGreen said:
This is why its on top of the page, otherwise you will find the front page cluttered with 20 diff threads with the same topic? I wont be merging any more between now and until day after so go crazy if you like !
Click to expand...


Yes I know it's time for your little 48 hr vacation. It was a 'light-hearted' comment though.

I don't mind threads being merged but I do hate stickies.
Click to expand...

You mad - a mod never sleeps or goes on vacation...
 
I expect, you would soon have the HULK in your avatar Miggy Bro.

By the way hows the weather supposed to be like in Jamshedpur.. anybody know?
 
you mean the HUNK... B)

The weather in Jamshedpur....

Partly Cloudy
High 37
Low 25

From Yahoo weather - toss is important
 
Pls post your comments on this and next match team composition etc here.
 
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