What's new

Pakistan’s lack of a 150kph+ bowler starting to catch up on them?

Rana

Hall of Famer
Joined
Jan 18, 2006
Runs
86,293
I’ve been noticing this for ages. No doubt that our batting has regressed and we are not producing world class batsmen the way we once did, but it pains to see that we do not possess a single bowler in our domestic structure who we can call upon to just bowl fast. Nearly all other countries are producing guys that bowl 145 on an average, and all of them can call upon 150kmh bowlers in their domestic set up.

Today, Pakistan were easily done in by a bowler hitting the deck hard and exploiting their weakness to the short ball. Pakistan could not match that sort of exposure, and really have no one to do it besides the TTF Wahab Riaz. Alarming signs
 
South African bowling conditions were tailor made for Wahab. As it is he was actually Pakistan's best bowler on the tour to Australia. But then again Wahab looked very ineffective in that test match against Australia in the UAE and his pace was down, he may not be as quick as he used to be which is why the selectors ignored him.
 
South African bowling conditions were tailor made for Wahab. As it is he was actually Pakistan's best bowler on the tour to Australia. But then again Wahab looked very ineffective in that test match against Australia in the UAE and his pace was down, he may not be as quick as he used to be which is why the selectors ignored him.

This is the thing though, why do we need to recall a 34 year old guy who really should be retiring from International cricket? We are lacking young guys from the age of 19 to 26 who can bowl real heat! This is supposed to be the generation that grew up watching Shoaib Akhtar bowl at 95mph, yet we get very excited seeing a bowler who bowls 87mph these days
 
This is the thing though, why do we need to recall a 34 year old guy who really should be retiring from International cricket? We are lacking young guys from the age of 19 to 26 who can bowl real heat! This is supposed to be the generation that grew up watching Shoaib Akhtar bowl at 95mph, yet we get very excited seeing a bowler who bowls 87mph these days

Many reasons to blame. Pakistani domestic pitches have really gone to the dogs in the last decade with the abscence of international cricket, slow, low bounce and the bulk of the matches are played in Punjab during the Winter season where due to the fog, wet conditions, you have the likes of Asad Ali, Hammad Azam, Sadaf Hussain and a 38 year old Aizaz Cheema topping bowling charts with their medium paced stuff. Batsmen are always grinding, surviving, lacking confidence in playing shots and bowlers just have to bowl at 123-127 km/hr and let the pitch do everything for them.

No incentive to bowl fast and no need too. Also so a few clips on Geo TV where the bowling side was indulging in grotesque ball tampering and the domestic umpires were either too incompetent too notice or too powerless to stop the offenders.

Overall our standard of domestic cricket has been extremely poor for a long time and the abscence of international cricket in Pakistan over the last 10-20 years has proven to be the final nail in the coffin. Wasim Khan, Ehsan Mani, Imran Khan and their plan to completely overhaul domestic cricket is the only way to go. We have got to reduce the quantity of teams and players in domestic cricket, introduce professional standards, create a sustainable regional-departmental partnership to field one team, get a few private investors and PSL franchise owners to put in a stake in a regional side and revitalize club, school cricket.

Bring domestic cricket to a point where you can get a broad caster in.
 
Yes it does hamper us a bit especially in places like South Africa and Australia.

Again it comes down to the domestic structure. We do produce teenagers with raw pace but they eventually fizzle out. Express bowlers need proper management and looking after.

Good coaching is also needed to smooth out their actions at an early age. We see quite a bit of young bowlers who bowl in the 140s with an inefficient action, a smoother and more efficient action will have them bowling at least 5-6 kph quicker with the same effort. Salman Irshad is one, he was able to bowl up to 145 in the PSL and his action wasn't even the most efficient. With a better action he could be bowling 150 kph stuff. Muhammad Sami is a great example in this regard. The guy has one of the smoothest and mechanically efficient actions ever which allows him to bowl near 140 even at 38 years of age.
 
Shaheen will bowl 145 regularly in couple of years if he keeps working hard and stay motivated.Musa is also potentially 145-150 pacer
 
Lets keep an eye on Haris Rauf, Musa Khan, Naseem Shah and Shaur Ahmed.

Where has Shaur gone ? Haven't seen him in any domestic competition. We need someone who can consistently bowl at 145+, hopefully atleast one of them can do that in future.
 
How many teams have genuine express bowlers / 150ks plus?

Starc
Furgueson
Milne
Wood
Rabada
Olivier
Stanlake
Hazlewood
Bumrah
Shami

Maybe not all above 150 but definitely 145k+. Pakistan are lacking that even now in the reserves
 
Starc
Furgueson
Milne
Wood
Rabada
Olivier
Stanlake
Hazlewood
Bumrah
Shami

Maybe not all above 150 but definitely 145k+. Pakistan are lacking that even now in the reserves

Ive seen Amir do 145+
 
Starc
Furgueson
Milne
Wood
Rabada
Olivier
Stanlake
Hazlewood
Bumrah
Shami

Maybe not all above 150 but definitely 145k+. Pakistan are lacking that even now in the reserves
Shami and Hazlewood are not as quick. Agree with the rest of the list.

Pakistan pacers are not match fit for Tests, and their speeds suffer. Watch them crank it up for T20s :facepalm:
 
Shami and Hazlewood are not as quick. Agree with the rest of the list.

Pakistan pacers are not match fit for Tests, and their speeds suffer. Watch them crank it up for T20s :facepalm:

If you ever get a chance to watch the T20 domestic tournament played in SA, they will have complete nobodies in every other team that bowl 90mph.

It’s a similar situation in the CPL also. In the English domestic scene, there are county second teams and premier league club sides that will have bowlers bowling in the high 140s. Only Pakistan is suffering this drought of genuine pace bowlers
 
Sami still bowls at 145KPH, and wahab is also there.Lets dump abbas and amir and bring ttf's back into the team
 
Sami still bowls at 145KPH, and wahab is also there.Lets dump abbas and amir and bring ttf's back into the team

I’m not sure you read the opening post. No one wants those two back, it’s unfortunate that we are not doing anything in producing a real fast bowler. This is what we need to realise and as soon as we can
 
Ive seen Amir do 145+

He only clocks 145+ in LOI where he knows how much he will bowl. In tests as he has shown this innings and in England time and time again, he can drop his pace 5-7K’s and still be effective, and prolong his spells. Plus if our bowling line-up is performing than I really could care less if they are bowling 138 or 148. Wickets are what matter and if they are getting those than great. Would it be nice to have a couple of Express bowlers, like Waqar or Akthar? Yes, but if our current line-up is performing at a bit slower pace than so be it. I’m still hoping we can produce somebody like an Akthar or Waqar because watching those guys ball is entertaining on a whole other level.
 
I’m not sure you read the opening post. No one wants those two back, it’s unfortunate that we are not doing anything in producing a real fast bowler. This is what we need to realise and as soon as we can


I think the thing with a lot of those express 145-150+ guys is that they are all gym fit guys. If you look at SA’s bowlers physique compared to ours you will see they are much bigger lads than our boys. So they can bowl 140-45+ consistently. Even our past express bowlers have been pretty big guys.
 
I am not too concerned. What we really needed on this SA track was a quality 4 man attack.

If we had Abbass, Amir, Shaheen and Faheem as our 4 seamers, SA would have been bowled out for 130.
 
On a seaming track, Amla and Elgar enjoying the military pace of Hassan and Amir, Shaheen also.
 
On a seaming track, Amla and Elgar enjoying the military pace of Hassan and Amir, Shaheen also.

The bowlers did their job!

They came out to bowl with barely a days break. The fact that this match is competitive is because of Amir and Shaheen's performance.
 
Very good thread. Amla in particular struggles against raw pace, so from this series context at least, Pakistan are missing a consistent 90mph bowler.
 
The bowlers did their job!

They came out to bowl with barely a days break. The fact that this match is competitive is because of Amir and Shaheen's performance.

You expect this from Test Cricketers. Bowling has been extremely disappointing in the second inning so far.
 
The bowlers did their job!

They came out to bowl with barely a days break. The fact that this match is competitive is because of Amir and Shaheen's performance.

Im not denying that. What I am saying is that seeing Amla playing these guys with so much time and ease, its been a case for quite some time now. Modern cricket does not allow you to simply get away with 130kmh bowlers all the time.
 
On a seaming track, Amla and Elgar enjoying the military pace of Hassan and Amir, Shaheen also.

Amir has fitness issues so not his mistake but why did Afridi and Hasan’s pace fall in this match especially when they have a small target to defend.
 
Starc
Furgueson
Milne
Wood
Rabada
Olivier
Stanlake
Hazlewood
Bumrah
Shami

Maybe not all above 150 but definitely 145k+. Pakistan are lacking that even now in the reserves

Don't forget Steyn, Yeah and Cummins who are consistently in the 140s.
 
In contrast to the speed of the SA seamers:

Rabada 145-147
Olivier 145-150
Steyn 137-145
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Amir 134-140
Shaheen 134- 140
Hassan 133-140
 
Starc
Furgueson
Milne
Wood
Rabada
Olivier
Stanlake
Hazlewood
Bumrah
Shami

Maybe not all above 150 but definitely 145k+. Pakistan are lacking that even now in the reserves

Add:
Steyn (bowls the same speed as Olivier and Rabada)
Gabriel
Thomas(ODI only but still)
Patterson (Aus Reserve)

Literally nobody bowls over 150kph consistently in a Test not even Starc - Shoaib and Lee were the last and even then only for a few overs.
 
Dodgy speed guns in Pakistan. So much for all of those videos we see of youngsters who are apparently 145+
 
Where is @cheifdestroyer now personally attacking me for calling this issue out? I told you I would see you around
 
The point we are missing here is forget about 150kph express pace, Pakistan do not have a bowler who can deliver 6 balls in an over over 140kph which is about 87mph if I’m not mistaken. These guys grunt and strain and ball barely clocks at 136mph, with the occasional ball getting into low 140s and only just.

Amazing , never thought I’d see the day when Pakistani quicks would be more like Angus Fraser bowling medium pace line and length, and Indian quicks would be bowling sharpish bouncers.
 
The point we are missing here is forget about 150kph express pace, Pakistan do not have a bowler who can deliver 6 balls in an over over 140kph which is about 87mph if I’m not mistaken. These guys grunt and strain and ball barely clocks at 136mph, with the occasional ball getting into low 140s and only just.

Amazing , never thought I’d see the day when Pakistani quicks would be more like Angus Fraser bowling medium pace line and length, and Indian quicks would be bowling sharpish bouncers.

Not enough steel left in the domestic scene of the country Im afraid. Burger boy youngsters who are "phast" bowlers developing into good swing bowlers. The real quick tape ball bowlers are the ones that are chucking it hard.
 
Pace is overrated.

Yes, its always good to watch but when it comes down to it in the game its overrated. Our bowlers are performing just fine. Abbas, Amir and Shaheen are good fast bowlers who can get you wickets and that is what is required of them
 
Not enough steel left in the domestic scene of the country Im afraid. Burger boy youngsters who are "phast" bowlers developing into good swing bowlers. The real quick tape ball bowlers are the ones that are chucking it hard.

You gotta blame the conditions in which the domestic cricket is played , damp low pitches on which every medium becomes richard hadlee. Look at the domestic bowling stats and you will know that the major wicket takers are usually medium pacers and spinners are nowhere in the scene.
 
Im not denying that. What I am saying is that seeing Amla playing these guys with so much time and ease, its been a case for quite some time now. Modern cricket does not allow you to simply get away with 130kmh bowlers all the time.

Mate, shaan and imam . Tell me how they were looking against steyn rabada and Olivier before the tea break yesterday?
Yes I'm talking about shaan and imam!!
 
Mate, shaan and imam . Tell me how they were looking against steyn rabada and Olivier before the tea break yesterday?
Yes I'm talking about shaan and imam!!

It’s brillint to see two youngsters who play real pace well. Babar also. But the same cannot be said about the rest. A change of format also and you will see how all of them besides Babar maybe struggling to score against the real quicks
 
Not really.

Amir, Hasan and Shaheen can all get it to 140 or more, i.e. around 90mph.

They have played their parts and restricted SA massively in the first innings with some brilliant bowling.

The batsmen are the biggest issue.
 
Forget 150 kph. None of them have clocked 145 consistently. They are all fast medium. No one who can bowl a genuinely fast spell let alone an express spell.
 
Agree fully that pace alone does not count for everything , but if you imagine the same ‘almost’ Jaffas from Amir with a bit more speed and bounce, that would make the difference between a fast bowler that could rip through a top order of batting line up with 3/4 quick wickets, and one who just gets a couple of hard earned wickets.
 
The point we are missing here is forget about 150kph express pace, Pakistan do not have a bowler who can deliver 6 balls in an over over 140kph which is about 87mph if I’m not mistaken. These guys grunt and strain and ball barely clocks at 136mph, with the occasional ball getting into low 140s and only just.

Amazing , never thought I’d see the day when Pakistani quicks would be more like Angus Fraser bowling medium pace line and length, and Indian quicks would be bowling sharpish bouncers.

This. Its so sad to see that our bowlers have become line and length types while the Indian bowlers are bowling at 145+ kph. I expected Shaheen to bowl a quick spell this morning but he too was underwhelming. Worse part is that there is no one in the domestics who can bowl quick either and apparently this is the generation that grew up watching Shoaib Akhtar.

We need to revamp our domestic set up to bring back the glory days.
 
Don't need to be express fast bowler when you can instead become a McGrath type bowler relying on line & length and still picking up top-order wickets.
 
Don't need to be express fast bowler when you can instead become a McGrath type bowler relying on line & length and still picking up top-order wickets.

Yes, one of those types of bowlers is fine. But a proper bowling attack would need one 147km+ bowler to add true potency
 
Don't need to be express fast bowler when you can instead become a McGrath type bowler relying on line & length and still picking up top-order wickets.
Yea. I can’t bowl fast so let me just become McGrath. Easy peasy.
Pigeon was a once in a generation bowler and he too was quick.
 
If you take away the magic number of 150kph, you would actually appreciate that Pakistan has pretty good bunch of pace bowlers to choose from. The failure as ever is that the batting is not test class and hasn't been for decades now. If Pakistani batsmen had done even a mediocre job they would have won this test, and the series against NZ 3-0.

Please digest this and understand where the problems lie.
 
I agree. Abbas,Afridi,Hasan,Yasir forms a very good attacking bowling line up. Pakistan's problem is batting and Fielding. It is really not justifiable at all to blame the bowlers who are doing a fine job. Unless and until Pakistan finds at least two consistent 50 plus averaging batsmen in tests ,they will continuously suffer. Any if these batsmen havent got this ability. Many regards Babar as a solution but to me he seems to be only a good ODI middle order batsman,he has to improve a lot to become a good test batsman.He lacks temperament of a consistent test batsman. Asad Shafique won't get any chance in top 6 sides in the world.Azhar is a batsman with limited abilities but he is still Pakistan's best test batsman at present.
 
It's astounding people are still going after the bowlers. You have to be really optimistic to be mad about not defending 149 :))
 
It's astounding people are still going after the bowlers. You have to be really optimistic to be mad about not defending 149 :))

It really isn’t about defending, it’s just the issue that we just don’t have that fun pace bowler anywhere in the set up
 
Yes, one of those types of bowlers is fine. But a proper bowling attack would need one 147km+ bowler to add true potency

It's kind of true. Bumrah has given different dimension to Indian attack due to bowling 145+.

But just pace is useless, he has very good control.
 
For goodness sake, the bowling is not the problem.

If a batting unit loses 9 wickets for 90 runs on the best day for batting, it’s not the bowlers who let you down.
 
You cannot compare Lee, Akhtar era with current time. There was widespread doping then. Most bowlers dropped 5-10 kmh after dope tests were introduced. Even Agarkar used to bowl 145 then.
Pakistan's lack of sleed us surprising. Is there general decline in health of the country?
 
It's astounding people are still going after the bowlers. You have to be really optimistic to be mad about not defending 149 :))

While I agree Pak batsman are the main problem, the Bowlers are not completely off the hook either.

In the first innings they let SA off the hook by letting Steyn, Dekock, Rabada etc get crucial runs... You should have given SA no lead at all.

In the second innings again, while I agree SA should have been 20/3 and Pak could have won the match from there but it still doesn't mean that on a bowling pitch you let Amla and Elgar take away the game completely from you... It wasn't top notch bowling as a unit. They should have persisted and I am not joking if they had got SA at 100/5, they could have won the match.

P.S. I still think batting is the top most issue but that will be solved eventually when you kick out dead wood
 
You are missing one very important point. Our domestic structure totally lacks fitness instructors and Sports Nutritionists. Our bowlers phyicality doesn't support them either. We need to start working on bowlers when they are in under 16, Then they will have the fitness levels to match with their international compatriots.
 
Bowlers set up the match really well, its the batting that failed YET AGAIN.
 
While I agree Pak batsman are the main problem, the Bowlers are not completely off the hook either.

In the first innings they let SA off the hook by letting Steyn, Dekock, Rabada etc get crucial runs... You should have given SA no lead at all.

In the second innings again, while I agree SA should have been 20/3 and Pak could have won the match from there but it still doesn't mean that on a bowling pitch you let Amla and Elgar take away the game completely from you... It wasn't top notch bowling as a unit. They should have persisted and I am not joking if they had got SA at 100/5, they could have won the match.

P.S. I still think batting is the top most issue but that will be solved eventually when you kick out dead wood
Disagree. All the pressure was on the bowlers to take wickets, while South Africa knew all they had to do was play them out and runs will come. Also, a drop catch and a controversial decision brought them down mentally. Our bowling attack deserves full marks for their effort, it's the batting that totally disrupted our dominant position.

The bowlers can only do so much. No bowling attack in the world experiences the kind of pressure our lot does. No matter what you say, it will naturally start playing on your mind when your batting compatriats mess up every game.
 
The main problem with Pakistan in tests has to be the captain... He runs out of ideas in important situations just like Dhoni in overseas tests before. Pakistan need to find a good batsman/bowler who can lead the side. My pick would be Babar Azam !
 
People need to stop treating problems as mutually exclusive. Is our bowling department our strength? yes. Is it the only thing saving us regularly from embarrassment at the hands of our batting order? yes. NONETHELESS, do we have a problem of not producing quality genuine fast bowlers? yes.

The problem is in the domestic structure that rewards trundling. Pure pace bowling is effective because it can take the pitch out of the equation - our domestic pitches hand the equation to the bowlers to dabble in at 130 KPHs and raze pathetic batting orders to the ground.
 
All this talk about fast bowlers is secondary.

In the 1st test Pakistan were playing with 8 players.

Sarfaraz's contribution was obviously 0 as we all saw in both innings.

Shafiq's contribution was close to zero.

And Yasir hardly bowled.

So thats 3 players who didnt contribute anything. A 30 a piece from Asad and Sarafaraz would have made a world of difference.
 
Nothing exciting about Pakistani batting but now the bowling is being exposed as well. Very, very flat bowling attack.
 
Nothing exciting left in pak cricket, didn't remember the last time I watched a full match which was not a t20, must be decade ago. Wish we had tear away pacers, massive swing bowlers, classical orthodox batsmen, aggressive big hitters, mystery spinners, zilch, nada.
 
Last edited:
We desperately need some 145+ fast bowlers. Our trundler brigade is so boring.
 
Pace has dropped considerably, especially in test cricket. On these pitches bowlers should be looking to hit the deck hard like how Oliver was doing.
 
We desperately need some 145+ fast bowlers. Our trundler brigade is so boring.
And it’s not like the trundlers are all that effective either, they are just capable of performances only good enough to keep their place in the team, nothing more.

When was the last time a Pakistani pace bowler took 5/6 wickets for 30/40 odd runs — It happens maybe once every 2 or 3 years now - I remember a time when it was almost happening in every test and ODI series back in the days of Wasim, Waqar, Aqib, Shoaib, saqlain, Mushtaq Ahmed...and often more than once... a few games where Wasim and Waqar would Be fighting between them to convert their 4-fers to 5 in the same innings.
 
150?

Current set of bowlers are averaging below 140 in test cricket. Shaheen offers a glimmer of hope, but the rest?
 
I’ve been noticing this for ages. No doubt that our batting has regressed and we are not producing world class batsmen the way we once did, but it pains to see that we do not possess a single bowler in our domestic structure who we can call upon to just bowl fast. Nearly all other countries are producing guys that bowl 145 on an average, and all of them can call upon 150kmh bowlers in their domestic set up.

Today, Pakistan were easily done in by a bowler hitting the deck hard and exploiting their weakness to the short ball. Pakistan could not match that sort of exposure, and really have no one to do it besides the TTF Wahab Riaz. Alarming signs

Pace is just one of the Factors. Wahab Riaz has pace, Mohd Sami had pace but both failed. They were given multiple chances because they had speed. The Last great pace Bowler that played for Pakistan was Mohd Asif (he destroyed his own career by spot fixing). But Asif was not fast.

Pakistan even now has a decent bowling attack but no attack can apply pressure if the batting side can't even score 200. Hardly any decent batting talent is being produced. there are no replacement for Non-performers like Asad Shafiq. The reason Pakistan can't drop Asad Shafiq is there is no one to take his place. He performs once in 6 or 7 innings. And I can't recall a match that Pakistan won because of Asad Shafiq. We dont even have a replacement for injured Haris Sohail. We are using a T-20 opener Fakhar Zaman in test matches in South Africa.

I predict Asad Shafiq will play 1 good innings out of the Next 3 innings and will cement his place for the next 2 test series.
We need a batting talent hunt to be conducted all over Pakistan, so we can find some high class Batting talent. Not T20 hacks and no Shahid Afridi wannabe's
 
Naseem Shah, Husnain, Arshad and Musa are quite quick as far as we have heard. Let's hope one of them breaks through.
 
And it’s not like the trundlers are all that effective either, they are just capable of performances only good enough to keep their place in the team, nothing more.

When was the last time a Pakistani pace bowler took 5/6 wickets for 30/40 odd runs — It happens maybe once every 2 or 3 years now - I remember a time when it was almost happening in every test and ODI series back in the days of Wasim, Waqar, Aqib, Shoaib, saqlain, Mushtaq Ahmed...and often more than once... a few games where Wasim and Waqar would Be fighting between them to convert their 4-fers to 5 in the same innings.

And the sad part is that there is no genuine fast bowler in our domestic setup either. :(
 
Naseem Shah, Husnain, Arshad and Musa are quite quick as far as we have heard. Let's hope one of them breaks through.

Naseem and Husnain are already facing injuries. Arshad at best can become a 140 kph avg bowler. Musa is the only hope.
 
Our bowling is overrated. NZ exposed that.

None of our bowlers will make it into England, India, SA, NZ or Australia starting line ups.

Our lack of pace is embarrassing. SL and India have faster bowlers than us now.
 
Our bowling is overrated. NZ exposed that.

None of our bowlers will make it into England, India, SA, NZ or Australia starting line ups.

Our lack of pace is embarrassing. SL and India have faster bowlers than us now.

Faheem Ashraf May just be the quickest bowler in Pakistan right now. This is alarming
 
Back
Top