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Really for the first time in years I feel that the Test rankings are true representation of where WE stand as a team.
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Pakistan deserve 7th position in ICC's Test rankings
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Really for the first time in years I feel that the Test rankings are true representation of where WE stand as a team.
Ummii
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Well I'm also not very impressed with our test team even I do believe that we're one of the weak test team atm. However we're far better than Bangladesh, New zealand and Sri lanka
You know you are talking about the same team that cleaned you up in your own backyard only last year.
topspin
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I'm not so sure about that - beating NZ in the next series won't be an easy task either as they drew last time and now Pakistan is going in without Younis.
the_outsider
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Hardly. They won 1 match then promptly lost the next one by an innings.
They barely scrapped past WI. If it wasn't for Gabriel's brainfade even that series would have been a draw.
And worst of all, Pak cannot seem to win at home anymore.
1 test match win in England is just that. 1 win. Nothing more. Nothing less. Even WI had a win in England. And they are still ranked 8th.
Hasan123
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Yes we deserve this ranking. It could get worse if we don't win the series against Australia and New Zealand.
Better how? Both those teams defeated Pakistan 2-0 convincingly in recent times. Herath and Dananjaya will run riot against Pakistani batsmen in Sri Lanka and in the UAE. The kiwi pace attack on a green top was too much for Pakistan to handle the last time and I don't see anything changing if they were to tour down under again.
Pakistan deserve their 7th place ranking in tests.
jeetu
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The biggest issue for low ranking is Pakistan's strugling to win matches at UAE , while other teams are dominating at home. There is also a factor of poor scheduling which meant Pakistan just played 8 tests in last 3 years at home/nuetral venues.
[table=width: 500, class: grid, align: center]
[tr][td]Team [/td][td]Mat [/td][td]Won [/td][td]Lost [/td][td]Draw [/td][td]W/L [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]India [/td][td]23 [/td][td]17 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]5 [/td][td]17 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Australia [/td][td]17 [/td][td]12 [/td][td]2 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]6 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]South Africa [/td][td]19 [/td][td]13 [/td][td]4 [/td][td]2 [/td][td]3.25 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]New Zealand [/td][td]15 [/td][td]9 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]3 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]England [/td][td]21 [/td][td]14 [/td][td]6 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]2.333 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Sri Lanka [/td][td]12 [/td][td]8 [/td][td]4 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]2 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Pakistan [/td][td]8 [/td][td]4 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]1.333 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]West Indies [/td][td]12 [/td][td]4 [/td][td]5 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]0.8 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Bangladesh [/td][td]6 [/td][td]2 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]0.666 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Ireland [/td][td]1 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Zimbabwe [/td][td]6 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]5 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[/table]
This! 8 matches at home (UAE) is too less even if they had won all of them they would be 6. Also I feel UAE wickets are too flat for any team to force results. They need to play 8 matches a year in UAE to have a chance of going up the ranking.
FastBowlingAllrounder
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At this very moment we may deserve the 7th place ranking. But the real question is what can we do to turn it around in this series, and the upcoming ones?
Nikhil_cric
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Yes because rankings are based only on performances in England . Test results in other parts of the world count only for half as much especially wherever India has done better
Nikhil_cric
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How are Pakistan far better than NZ? Enzed have been an excellent team for the last 4 years and you haven't beaten them either home or away
After herath retires, I'd put PAK above SL though.How are Pakistan far better than NZ? Enzed have been an excellent team for the last 4 years and you haven't beaten them either home or away
Well Pakistan need to play 10 games atleast in UAE a year like all other teams and they will be allright. the rankings etc are just joke at the moment, too much inaccuracy and inconsistency.
Nikhil_cric
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Bhaijaan it doesn't work like that. If India are playing so many tests at home, they also tend to play a lot of tests away as well. We played 19 tests away as well in this period. Also Pakistan have hardly been dominant in the UAE even in 2/3 match test series, it would be even harder to dominate over the course of 4/5 matches.
Why did you ignore Pakistan's performance against last year where they thrashed you in your home series? Do runs only matter against englang not Sri Lanka?
NO it wont be harder the other teams will find it hard to compete against a team who will play so many games at a given venue. Pakistan have actually got a decent record away same as say India who lose in all 3 Places SA, AUS AND ENG but Pakistan actually manages to draw or win in England. In any case I am not saying they will become No.1 side but they will be better off.
My other point about rankings are they are just too in consistent so fans have to do guess work. No team play roughly same number of games in similar conditions. I actually still think SA are the best test side followed by England and then India.
Its because beating Sri lanka traditionally has not been as hard for Pakistan as England in England.
the_outsider
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You mean the SA team that lost in England, couldn't win a single match in BD, lost in UAE and got whitewashed in India and SL is the best test side?
Or are you talking about the English team that drew in BD, lost in NZ, lost in UAE and lost 4-0 in India and Australia? So are they the best side?
There seems to be a very convenient practice here on PP to highlight India's overseas losses and downplay (sometimes even ignore) overseas losses of ENG, SA and AUS.
Man that's my opinion and you are entitled to yours. And my opinion is based on longer time period than you mentioned. England and SA have actually got some good away wins in difficult places. for SA this might be changing as some of their best players are nearing the end.
Also for England yes they lost to India in India fair but for that SA series those pitches were shocking and it clear showed how worried India were to play them on anything other than total dust bowls.
the_outsider
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Yes that's true. In two tests out of the 4 tests in that series, the pitches were absolute dustbowls.
And that's why SA dished out the same thing in return when India toured them this year. All 3 pitches were absolute green mambas. And Faf du Plessis admitted that too in press conferences. That they doctored their pitches as well. So fair play. Both teams did the same thing.
Difference is SA ended 3 matches with a 0-3 scoreline and India ended with a 1-2 scoreline.
sugumarrising
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India, australia, south africa, & england are the best test sides at the moment, all these teams are dominant in home and struggle abroad, india being far more consistent in home conditions so they are no.1 in test.
cricketindiafan
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Losing a Test to WI and getting whitewashed by SL, thats number 8 and 9 test teams. Now a draw at home vs a weak Australia
As much as you want, one win vs England (which was a great win and a wonderful achievement) will not wash away those awful losses and painful draws against poor teams.
Only thing that will help Pakistan now is a series win vs SA in SA, which as you have said should be easy against an average SA bowling attack.
No all 4 of those pitches were shocking and a real shock to me as I had not seen these kind of pitches any where before. I still dont no why India did that because normal Indian pitches are good enough for India to win at home.
Anyway I still think SA and England are the best sides followed by India. England might be the next dominant side given the players they are producing. Currently they only struggle in Asia ( they lose in Aus but they win some series too).
And 2-1 ( winning dead rubber) 3-0 not much difference in my book.
Bigger point here is rankings are just to inaccurate to mean much and they are exposed now because in the past we had clear number 1s first WI and the AUS but now that we dont they are exposed.
Regarding Pak they need to play more games at home and then they will be allright.
cricketindiafan
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LOL SA got whitewashed in SL, got thumped (like India) in England, so how exactly are they better?
Eng could not even beat BD in BD, have failed to beat Pakistan at home, lost a test to WI at home, get thrashed in India, NZ and Australia
As much as you want, none of those teams have a better record than India.
India just struggle too much away from ASIA that's just too much. Both SA And England win in other difficult places like for England in SA or SA in Aus. These are hard places to win but they manage it from time to time. But India just fail in all 3 places and surely that's too much to class them the best side?
When people don't have anything solid to back thr opinion and got thump with no way to run they start shouting its my opinion my opinion...We all know its your opinion but atleast back it with some stat or some reasoning..
the_outsider
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Nope. Bangalore pitch was absolutely fine. And Feroz Shah Kotla pitch was also fine. India scored 600 runs on that pitch for the loss of just 15 wickets. SA made that pitch look a lot worse than it was.
There might not be any difference between 2-1 and 3-0 in your mind but that doesn't mean anything. Scorecard says what it says.
And nobody is claiming currently Indian test team is dominant like 70s Windies or 90s Australia. Even though, even at their peak Australia also managed just 1 series win in India out of 4 attempts.
As far as England winning in Australia is concerned, they have won only once in Australia in the last 30 years! The one time they won (2012/13) they were ranked number 1 - once again proving the validity of the ranking system. If we exclude that series, England have lost 19 out of their last 20 tests in Australia and have drawn once. Zero wins.
Rankings are fine. It's the same system that had Australia as number 1 in 2008 and it's the same system that had England as number 1 in 2013. You just can't digest that because India is number 1 now.
What do you mean? I assume you didnt like i put England and SA above India? In that case i just said India just dont win anything outside ASIA and thats just too much!! England have got many win in SA in recent past and SA have got wins in AUS. These are the hard places to go and win and India have got none. Sorry if you dont like it but I cant say Inida is the best side because its too much to not being able to win in any difficult places. What does it say about the players?? they just want to play in either Asia or against easy team say WI? Common at-least go and win somewhere at-least once in your careers.
the_outsider
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For SENA teams, SENA conditions are not tough. If that was the case then SA and AUS would not get whitewashed in SL, nevermind their poor shows in India.
Australia and SA could not even win the series in Bangladesh.
Everything you are saying, is designed to downplay India's performance. That is your only agenda.
I was also very critical of England being ranked number 1 at that time too. But until everyone plays same number of game in each and every country rankings will always be suspect. Or another way is to go football way where nobody gives a damn about rankings and just wait for tournament to come around to get excited about national team, in which case we need a tournament for test cricket too.
the_outsider
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I had posted here some time ago some data that shows that the ratio of home/away matches for all teams are more or less the same.
Just like in 2017 India played a lot of home tests, in 2018 they will be playing 12 tests in SENA and only 2 home tests. It balances out over a 2-year period.
I have no agenda against any side!! I would like Pakistan to win as a fan naturally and after that I am just neutral. I am not a person who takes pleasure in anybodies lose.
You say for SA to win in Aus is not tough? I think its! they are better equipped than Asian teams yes for sure but those are still tough conditions to win. Best side should at-least win in some tough conditions and places? dont you think so? If you don't then that's fine but my opinion is different.
Yes but thats for India only but say for Pak they have only played 8 test matches in UAE in 3 years?
Of course England is the only country in which country is played. Silly me.
Nikhil_cric
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SA lost series in England, Lanka and India. How are they better than India? England lost everywhere except SA. Again what makes them better. Neither SA nor England have a dominant record at home either.
In Odis India and England are the best sides (I dont count T20s) I cant decide who is better. But in test my criteria is show me what you got? common its test cricket. both England and SA have won in places where I didnt expect them to win.
I didnt mean to say they are the dominant sides and have won everywhere but other sides have not won anywhere. From Asian teams only Pakistan have drawn series in England all other just lose in all 3/4 difficult places to go and win. Maybe I am wrong about Sri Lanka did they win the last series in England?
Canford Cliffs
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With multiple camera's around in modern cricket, its tough to get reverse swing which was the main strength of Pak in the 90s. Also ICC crackdown of illegal spinners has taken a toll on Pak team. Batting was never their strength anyway but with bowlers being restricted due to above mentioned issues, they are failing to win test matches.
Buffet
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Every team deserve the ranking they have. It's just a mathematical formula and true for everyone.
India, followed by SA, Eng, Aus and NZ are the best Test teams at the moment. They are very hard to beat in their home conditions and somewhat competitive away from home. Bottom five need to improve a lot if we want to promote Test cricket on the global stage. They can't remain poorer for so long, otherwise there's no point in playing Test cricket with them.
How can you say India is competitive away and Srilanka and Pakistan are not? Pakistan have not lost a series in England in last two series where India have lost everywhere!! Srilanka have actually won series in England last time they were over their.
It's because Pakistan and SL have only played 2-match Test series when they last toured England. Pakistan has an atrocious in other countries like Australia, SA and NZ. Same with SL.
Pakistan played 4 match series which the drew too! and what was the result of the last India series after first 2 matches against England? let me tell you 2-0 to England. and about other countries you forgot to add same with India. So over all India has the worst record away to these countries.
Syed1
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This is what happens when people mouth off without much knowledge.
Pakistan has played 31 tests in NZ, 10 they have won, 7 they have lost and the other 14 have been draws.
Meanwhile, India has played 23 tests in NZ, 5 they won, 8 they lost and 10 have been draws.
But that doesnt excuse you irresponsible statement that India is more competitive away from home than Srilanka and Pakistan when those are the only two teams to win something in those countries. Pakistan record is better in NZ too.
cricketindiafan
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Eng, SA, Aus winning against each other home or away is similar to Ind, Pak, SL, BD winning home or away or in UAE (or even WI where the wickets are more spin friendly for some years).
Yes the non Asian countries have a better record in Asia than Asian countries in SENA. But we are not talking about historical performances but of last 3-4 years.
But you must win in some difficult condition even Pakistan managed to draw in England and Sri lanka a win recently so why cant India? They are just too home dependent and have only won what was expected from current Indian team and the past Indian teams. From what I can remember India was always a strong team at home and only special sides beat them and we no longer have any special dominant teams around. But for India to be considered best side or even better than previous Indian sides they must do at-least something.
the_outsider
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Let's not kid ourselves, Syed. Not a single one of those 10 wins have come in the last 8 years.
If we are going to fall back on historical record then even India has a series win in England in 2007 while Pakistan's last win came 22 years ago in '96. But nobody will say that India is doing better in Eng than Pak, will they?
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Tridibans_16
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You and your biases. Pakistan lost 0-2 to SL of all people.....
BTW even Windies won 1 test in England.
How come India didnt win the series in England then?
Tridibans_16
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Other than in England, Pakistan was whitewashed in Aus (for ages now), NZ, SA, lost to SL in UAE drew with NZ at UAE...... If anything, they are worse than the 7th ranking.
Tridibans_16
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Like how Pak got whitewashed in AUS since 20 years and in SA last time you were there. In fact, you lost to SL in UAE. So how only our record in England is epitome of everything?
Also, India last won a series in England in 2007. When did Pakistan won a series there? 30 years back?
saeed5646
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2 match test series lost of pakistan to SL is called pakistan trash and white wash by SL
while pakistan 2 test match of eng which pakistan draw 1-1 is called it is only 2 match series
what a logic
the_outsider
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That's precisely what everyone is trying to say. Winning in England is not the be all end all of anything.
The only reason why performance in England gets hyped so much is because Eng is the only country where Pak has done well. That is why it suits the narrative of the Pak fans to highlight Eng tours and ignore AUS tours.
Logic would dictate that the most important series should be the ones against the best team in the world. In the last 20 years, AUS has been by far the best test team in the world. And India has been the 2nd best touring team in Australia this millennium and the best Asian tourist by a country mile. Butnce Pak has lost 12 tests in a row there, fans are always afraid of bringing up Australia. Only time they bring it up is when they want to talk about India's whitewash in 2012. The bias is there for everyone to see.
the_outsider
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1996
Above post was in response to even WI won in England so by that logic India must have won 5-0? The other thing is that India have won nothing in AUS or SA same as Pakistan and Srilanka.
if you are talking of past performance then you will find Pakistan actually have a better record in England than India. But recently also Pakistan have been better. Point I am trying to make is I dont consider India the best side due to their failure in all 3 countries which is too much of a failure for me. for the record I dont consider either Pakistan or Sri lanka to be better but they both highlight my point very well that it is not impossible to perform or win on those countries specially if you are the best side.
Let me repeat it again. Pakistan has been whitewashed in Australia, SA and NZ just like WI have been whitewashed in India recently. Let that sink in for a moment before claiming that Pakistan has a better away record.
This post does not answer the question I assume you dont have one.
But they have! its not any achievement because its only due to how bad India is in those countries.
saeed5646
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how many test series india have won in england that too after traveling every second year to england from last 10years
3 by pakistan and 4 by india so i don,t why so much arrogance
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saeed5646
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typo error 3 each by pak and india
cricketindiafan
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Best side relative to others in last 3-4 years. Winning in SENA will make this Indian team a truly dominant one, which we clearly are not. Had our opportunity in SA and Eng but we are not yet that good to win series there.
Yes we have been always dominant at home but the current side has demolished everyone in India - 4-0 vs Eng, 3-0 vs SA, 2-0 vs NZ, 3-0 vs SL, 2-0 vs WI, only Aus managed to compete decently and lost 2-1. That’s 16 wins and 1 loss across 3-4 years! Never ever been such strong at home. If only we could add a couple of series wins in SENA to his list..hope remains
ManFan
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Justified.
We're struggling to beat a second-string AUS team in the UAE due to the ineptitude of our captain, lack of insight by our coach, and poor selection.
There's no shame in admitting that since Misbah's departure, we have regressed terribly as a Test team. But the cracks began to appear right after the much celebrated 2016 England tour with a loss against the West Indies, 0-5 in Oceania and barely scrapping by in the WI.
This is largely due to the investments in the chicken-hearted cricketers who are in their (mid?) 30's and have yet to show they can handle pressure. Namely Azhar, Shafiq, Sarfraz, Hafeez, and Wahab.
But it's not their fault as the domestic scene has groomed them for failure at the international stage.
All's well that ends well and right now, the best hope for the future of the PCT, is to rid themselves of the plague known as "complacency".
We're struggling to beat a second-string AUS team in the UAE due to the ineptitude of our captain, lack of insight by our coach, and poor selection.
There's no shame in admitting that since Misbah's departure, we have regressed terribly as a Test team. But the cracks began to appear right after the much celebrated 2016 England tour with a loss against the West Indies, 0-5 in Oceania and barely scrapping by in the WI.
This is largely due to the investments in the chicken-hearted cricketers who are in their (mid?) 30's and have yet to show they can handle pressure. Namely Azhar, Shafiq, Sarfraz, Hafeez, and Wahab.
But it's not their fault as the domestic scene has groomed them for failure at the international stage.
All's well that ends well and right now, the best hope for the future of the PCT, is to rid themselves of the plague known as "complacency".
I disagree slightly that India are anymore dominant at home than before. In the past truly great sides gave them competition or won. But for the last 10 years or so those sides are no longer around so its become a straight forward affair. There used to be a few draws as well due to UAE type wickets India have done away from those as they wanted more home advantage.
Syed1
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Last 6 Pakistan series in England
96, 01, 06, 10, 16, 18 (3 drawn, 2 England and 1 Pakistan)
Last 6 Indian series in England
96, 02, 07, 11, 14, 18 (1 drawn, 4 England and 1 India)
But look at the arrogance of these bloody chest thumpers
In the last 3-4 years, Pakistan has the most number of whitewashes for SC teams. That's why they are rightly ranked in the bottom 5.
cricketindiafan
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Have you been reading your own posts before the Asia Cup?
They are chest thumping because they have every right to do so.. No 1 test time
What about you? Why you jumping up and down. Your team at the bottom of the table since ages...
PAK actually should be ranked as No. 1 & England as No. 2 - since PAK has avoided defeat in ENG, which no team could do in last 5-6 years, while England lost in PAK's home series ..... anything else doesn't matter much, they hardly exist.
saeed5646
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let them have there moment and fell proud about 25-3 out asia against top side
Canford Cliffs
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We are no.1 in ICC rankings and been there since last 2 years and will continue to remain there for many years to come. So if we dont feel proud, who else will? Supporter of 7th rank team?
Focus on teams like WI, BD, SL etc who are closer to your vicinity. Touching India is an everest to climb for Pakistan.
Buffet
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There is one person who finally understood Junaids.
RyanRyan10
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Pakistan also lost 2 tests against West Indies-both home & away
They have been good in England but that's the only country where they have been better than India since 2015
Rankings are calculated for results from 2015-16 season
Almost every country dominates at home but in these years Pak has struggles even at home & have 4-3 record
They lost 2 tests vs SL & 1 vs WI
That's why their ranking dropped as both these teams were lower ranked
India doesn't gain much by beating sides like SL or WI but it's the 12-1 home record against SENA nations at home which has helped us gain the rankings
We aren't good away but just too good at home & most importantly we don't lose to sides like SL,WI or BD like other teams do
If just winning "tougher" matches are criteria then a side like Liverpool would have Won couple of leagues as there were seasons were they had the best record against top sides & also in away matches but it was their losses against the lower ranked sides that pushed them down
the_outsider
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Man you disagree with a lot of things. And then you say "it's my opinion" but you don't give any facts to back them.
So let me give you some facts:
India now has 10 back-to-back home series wins. That's a world record.
India has 21 wins and 1 loss in their last 27 matches spanning 5+ years. A W/L ratio of 21. Also a world record.
So you can have your opinions. But the facts of the matter disagree with you.
the_outsider
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Ranked #7 in tests.
Showed their place in ODIs by India, NZ & BD. Even Afghanistan caught you with your pants down.
Yet you have the arrogance to talk smack. So Indians with their #1 rank can say whatever they want. You just have to sit back and take it. Don't like it? Then pray every day that your team stops being a minnow. Pray very hard.
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