Usman Chadda
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I meant as an LOI captain. As a Test captain/batsman, he deserves the highest accolades. Destroyed our ODI cricket though.
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Pakistan has fallen far behind India as a cricketing nation
- Thread starter Rayyman
- Start date
No matter how much u convince ....few fans here won't agree the fact. That is the main reason Pak will fall behind India in terms professionalism ..the way cricket is played now a days. Some random guy coming from streets and becoming Star cricketer will not going to happen in Modern cricket. Which requires systematic approach and infrastructure to produce new age cricket Stars2
And that's where lies the problem to get that infrastructure in place one needs money , Pakistan doesn't have money , lack of quality cricket pitches will lead to in adequate development of Pakistani domestic cricketers .
Cricket is a game that easily manipulated by climatic pitch ball conditions
Or rules bought in by the ICC to disadvantage teams , bouncer limitation , 2 new balls , field placement restrictions , bigger bats , bowler arm bend rule
That's why pakistan should stop pumping money in one sport cricket
Games like hockey and football require less investment and are much more simpler to play without needing expensive equipment ,
Africa and Brazil kids play on clay pits/ Astro turfs in Brazil they play on the beach or street footballers and they produce amazing footballers ,
Because in football all u need is a football that costs a tenner the game cannot be manipulated by climate / pitch or rules regulations
We need to invest in football
Mp812
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In the 1980s at peak of their dominance , the WI lost a Worldcup final to India by 43 runs which considering scores those days was big margin.
Did that make India on par with WI in 80s? Or did WI still remain the better team literally?
IIRC WI after the world cup final went to India and defeated India 5-0 in an ODI series...and in present day NZ of all teams defeated CT champions 5-0..Ah the irony.
Did that make India on par with WI in 80s? Or did WI still remain the better team literally?
IIRC WI after the world cup final went to India and defeated India 5-0 in an ODI series...and in present day NZ of all teams defeated CT champions 5-0..Ah the irony.
Rayyman
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Another hundred for Dhawan today. If this guy played for Pakistan he would be a legendary opener for us already. And for India, at times he struggles to find a place in the team. Such is the difference in class between the two cricketing nations.
Bleedgreen4ever
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Not really...he is a regular in the Indian ODI side not in tests though.
Usman Chadda
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What is this guy talking about? Anyone else feel this thread is a 100% wind-up attempt just for the 'lolz'?
Mamoon
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It is a WUM thread but there is truth in that assessment. Dhawan is considered a good player in India but he is not a legend and one of their greats. However, a Pakistani opener with similar performances would already be a bonafide legend and well on his way of becoming our best opener ever.
Our batting legacy is a joke and it sums up the gulf between the two countries which is only going to widen in the future. India's best batsman today is already better than any batsman Pakistan has ever produced and he hasn't even hit 30 yet.
The reverse used to be true when it comes to bowling, but unfortunately things have changed now. India are unlikely to produce bowlers of the caliber of Wasim, Imran, Waqar etc., but their new crop of pace bowlers are better than ours.
There is no doubt that India has raced ahead of Pakistan as a cricketing nation since the millennium and it is only going to get worse from here.
The_Odd_One
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He's a legendary opener for India too.
Rayyman
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If he was Pakistani he would only have been behind Anwar.
As Indian, he is well behind Sehwag, Tendulkar, Gambhir, Ganguly and Gavaskar.
For comparison, a legend (in your words) in Dhawan, is India's 6th most prolific opener in terms of runs across all formats. For Pakistan, it is Salman Butt, followed closely by Ahmed Shehzad and Shahid Afridi...
Bleedgreen4ever
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Well as an Indian opener he is only behind Sehwag Tendulkar and Sharma....
You are exaggerating
Sidilicious
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In LOIs, Ganguly and Gambhir are also ahead
The_Odd_One
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Why mixing formats? Given his tournament performances, he's only behind Tendulkar. How many Indian openers average 46 at 94 SR?
It's funny when people try to make him look like a nothing batsman but then he becomes world class when compared with openers from other teams.
The_Odd_One
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The list of your top Pakistani openers provides an insight on your level of cricket knowledge.
Sidilicious
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You cannot compare the Average of someone who played in the 90s to that of someone who played in 2010s.
By your criteria, Dhawan is also ahead of Saeed Anwar who averaged 39 @ 80 SR. Most fans would agree that he is not.
So, Dhawan is clearly behind Tendulkar, Sehwag and Ganguly . And as things stand, also arguably behind Gambhir.
Sadevdesai
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Some truth to the fact that we have fallen behind the Indians as they are doing well against SA in SA. Although, nothing can really be determined unless we play each other .... whenever that happens !!! So, just keep the fingers crossed, and hope we do well against the next opponents !!!!
Savak
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I wonder what is the overall conclusion of this thread?
That Pakistan should now look up to India, IPL as the way forward in Cricket as opposed to Australia, England, South Africa?
That Pakistan should now look up to India, IPL as the way forward in Cricket as opposed to Australia, England, South Africa?
IndianFan2018
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No, Stop living in CT victory hangover forever, you guys won handsomely fair enough move on. I see fans and even some current players still taking about CT win to cover current failures. To avoid NZ like horror show, Pak team should try to improve on fitness levels to compete with SENA teams better next time, cheers
Savak
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No, Stop living in CT victory hangover forever, you guys won handsomely fair enough move on. I see fans and even some current players still taking about CT win to cover current failures. To avoid NZ like horror show, Pak team should try to improve on fitness levels to compete with SENA teams better next time, cheers
Fitness problems aside, we did badly in NZ because we didn't arrive early enough to acclimitize properly.
Usman Chadda
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India got clattered 4-0 in NZ with a much more accomplished team than Pakistan back in 2014. NZ is a tough place to tour and while the lads put up an awful show, they still came back as the first Asian side to win a T20 series in NZ. It's a very young side in-terms of experience, cut them some slack.No, Stop living in CT victory hangover forever, you guys won handsomely fair enough move on. I see fans and even some current players still taking about CT win to cover current failures. To avoid NZ like horror show, Pak team should try to improve on fitness levels to compete with SENA teams better next time, cheers
Rayyman
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Excuse me? Hafeez is second on the list of most runs scored as a Pakistani opener.
Usman Chadda
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I know the CT hurts bad, but an Indian fan doesn't get to decide how long Pakistanis enjoy the win. We won despite the massive challenges we face in our domestic structure and no international back home. While India is winning ICC trophies all the time (just check India's record in ICC tournaments since 2013, Masha Allah), it is something of a big deal for Pakistanis.No, Stop living in CT victory hangover forever, you guys won handsomely fair enough move on. I see fans and even some current players still taking about CT win to cover current failures. To avoid NZ like horror show, Pak team should try to improve on fitness levels to compete with SENA teams better next time, cheers
Bleedgreen4ever
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Bleedgreen4ever
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Not really..I do not think most fans would rate Ganguly ahead of Dhawan
Sidilicious
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I know most fans would rate dada over Dhawan.
But what is your argument for rating Dhawan over Dada?
IndianFan2018
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Ok enjoy as long as you want ... CT which India won twice (one shared with SL due to Rain), so not a big deal for us.
big_gamer007
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You might be too young but Ganguly for few seasons was our best LOI player even better than Sachin and one of the best LOI players of the world.. Later on he declined and people remember that version of Ganguly for for 3-4 seasons he was the God of offside..
Dhawan is still behind Tendu, Ganguly, Sehwag.. Currently slightly ahead of gambo and Rohit.. F he carries on like this he will become second best after tendu..
Dhawan is ahead of ganguly and sehwag for sure. Our top 3 is currently best in world. 90% of time atleast 2 are batsman of 3 are in great form but if 2 gets out of form then it becomes quite hard to win matches leave series.
Hitman
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Greg Chappell said it best just after India exit in the 2007 WC - 'If you want to be a team like Australia, you can't afford to run your cricket like Zimbabwe'.
Bhaag Viru Bhaag
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Dhawan is ahead of Ganguly and Sehwag just like Kohli is ahead of Sachin?
Bhaag Viru Bhaag
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Who are those fans?
Titan24
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Exactly. India even lost the T20s in NZ and Pak became the first Asian side to win T20 series there.
Also last time Pakistan toured SA, Pak won 2-1 against a much better and full strength squad including Steyn and Kallis.
IndianFan2018
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Do u think Rabada (World No. 1 bowler), Morkel, Nigidi and Morris are lesser bowlers ..hats off to your cricket knowledge
Titan24
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Do u think Rabada (World No. 1 bowler), Morkel, Nigidi and Morris are lesser bowlers ..hats off to your cricket knowledge
Lol! Ngidi is debuting in this series its not like he is some legendary one day player as you are making him out to be. Also Morris is talented but atm he is not as great as Kallis or even Philander, they both played at that time. As an allrounder he is not even close to Kallis.
This attack is less experienced then that one by miles.You can check the stats, but I guess you already know it cosndering your exceptional knwoledge of cricket.
And batting wise Markram playing his 2nd 3rd ODI, Zondo playing his 2nd ODI Klaasen debuting.
But, yes as India is playing so opposition is full strenghth.
Kudos to your cricketing knowledge.
IndianFan2018
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No one is denying inexperience of SA bowlers ...they are playing in home that is a plus. We can accept batting of SA is weak certainly not bowling ...bro.
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Bhai, Pakistan is the strongest cricket team, no comparisons....enjoy
You are right, should enjoy CT victory as long as you can....fully deserve it.
Syed1
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No, Stop living in CT victory hangover forever, you guys won handsomely fair enough move on. I see fans and even some current players still taking about CT win to cover current failures. To avoid NZ like horror show, Pak team should try to improve on fitness levels to compete with SENA teams better next time, cheers
Sir last time India was in New Zealand you guys lost ODI series 4-0. So please don't give us lecture on performance. Last time India won an ICC trophy was all the way back in 2013.
The_Odd_One
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No, Stop living in CT victory hangover forever, you guys won handsomely fair enough move on. I see fans and even some current players still taking about CT win to cover current failures. To avoid NZ like horror show, Pak team should try to improve on fitness levels to compete with SENA teams better next time, cheers
You have lost all of your series in those countries with an ATG team so it is ironic to hear it coming from an Indian fan.
AssassinatedDevil
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Rayyman
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And now a century for Rohit too. In 4 out of 5 matches in this series, an Indian top 3 batsman has scored a hundred. And this is in a series in SA. Pak. could never even dream of this.
shokz1408
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Lol a top 3 like this, indeed we can't even dream such a thing, it's that much out of the question.
ataullah
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Fakhar
Babar
Talat
Sarfraz
Malik
Asif
Faheem
Shadab
Hasan
Amir
Junaid/shinwari
Can this side match indian odi team in a world cup do or die situation?
Babar
Talat
Sarfraz
Malik
Asif
Faheem
Shadab
Hasan
Amir
Junaid/shinwari
Can this side match indian odi team in a world cup do or die situation?
Nope. India will extend the streak.
jnaveen1980
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Pakistan/India matches don't depend on form. It is more like who holds the nerves. Generally those who bats second falls apart regardless of how good they are. They just implode.
Fakhar - Dhawan
Babar - Rohit
Talat - Kohli
Sarfraz - Dhoni
Malik- Pandey
Asif- DK
Faheem- Pandya
Shadab- kuldeep
Hasan- Bumrah
Amir- B Kumar
Junaid/Shinwari - Shami/ Chahal
That's man to man comparison. Now u decide
Bleedgreen4ever
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We have won against an ATG SA in SA with our worst ever team
Oligochaetes
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Pakistan is slowly and surely finding a good XI and will peak at the right time at the world cup.
Mark My Words! India has peaked too early, by the time World Cup arrives, Kohli and Rohit will have lost their form, and will have a wretched tournament.
Mark My Words! India has peaked too early, by the time World Cup arrives, Kohli and Rohit will have lost their form, and will have a wretched tournament.
The same team that won CT and blanked clueless Lankans 5 zip got out for 74 in an ODI against a mid tier ODI team and lost all 5 games within months. That's the beauty of Pakistan cricket. They can beat any one and can lose to anyone. The WC 2019 is going to be a roller coaster for this Pak team considering consistency is rewarded. Eternal greatness like Immi's cornered tigers (who were very inconsistent too by the way) or extreme disappointment awaits Pak team. There is no middle ground.
As usual indian batting trumps Pak batting especially the top3.
If Pak are to win , Fakhar has to be in beast mode and Pak has to score over 275 . Pak has the bowlers to defend anything over 250.
Indian ODI team is still shaky. Middle order is still weak. If one of top 3 scores big, indian bowlers will easily defend anything over 250.
Kuldeep/Bk/Bumrah/Chahal/Shami is a quality attack.
Indians on the other hand have been very consistent in ODIs in the last few years. They were at least in the semis in every ICC tournament in the last few years and are a "tournament" team. This is despite their big guns like Rohit or Kohli not performing to their usual standard. They breeze through the qualifiers but have stumbled in the knock outs. Heart says 2019 WC belongs to the man that blames himself for losing 2015 WC semis, 2017 CT final, the best batsman in ODIs Kohli. Mind says the brittle batting line up after top 3 will be the downfall again. Eitherway, it will be a test for Kohli, Rohit and also an ageing Dhoni to prove they can be winners again. England or Australia will probably be a road block in the semis for this very good ODI outfit
250 to 300 is bread and butter for this Indian team in chases. Anything beyond that is where they will have an issue. I don't think this Indian team would have bundled for 150 if they were chasing 260 in the final.
If Indian team plays 3 or 5 match series against any team away, they will win all the series. Best Odi team in the world. Period
Bleedgreen4ever
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Not really
You get Kohli Sharma out all others are very vulnerable.
Rahane is inconsistent and averages in the 30s
Dhoni is about to retire
Pandya is very inconsistent
Dhawan is very susceptible to swing.
This team will be rattled by NZ in NZ
ENG in ENG and even Pakistan in Pakistan.
Asch Ali
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Next match Talat
Go and make 50
Go and make 50
B_Positive
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India is ahead by a lot. Esp because of batting. Bowling of both sides are comparable to each other but a vast gap in batting
NZ is the only place we never seem to click. Last tour to england we beat them 3-1 and kohli scored less than 100 runs in the whole series and rohit did not play in 3 of the 4 matches. Pakistan may have won the CT final but they are not a better team than india in anyway or form.
Kohli The King of Chase
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We are a superior team. We SHOULD be able to beat you 6 or 7/ 10 times,quite easily.
But if ur bowling clicks and u get Kohli and Rohit out early, you COULD make a match out of it.
But if ur bowling clicks and u get Kohli and Rohit out early, you COULD make a match out of it.
pakistani pride
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Could should would bla bla bla.
Same we can say that FZ will smash your bowlers and that Amir will once AGAIN get Rohit cheaply.
Fact is we have to wait the next big game will be during the WC next year.
Pak are going into the right direction. What India are doing shouldnt worry us.
Lots of ifs. If you also remove root and bairstow, England is nothing. No spinners and fast bowlers are average. NZ is no match. Current team will trash NZ. Lol at slipping in Pak there.
Well they almost beat India at their home so bit of an overstatement calling them "no match".
There is a reason why your team is no 9 in Odi. Let's first see your team in top 5, then we will talk about beating no 1 team.
No more ashwin and jadeja. Current team is a lot better. You will see it
sohailmm
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We are slowly coming back to our insticts and those cluch playerss have starting to appear on the playing 11 , what we actually need is Talat to fire in ODI .
If Talat and Haris can be cement themselves inplace of Maliks and Hafeezs and keep this Imad guy out of the team then we would surely be better side .
Future is promising and hopefully these young guys ( faheem , shadab , hassan , shaheen, Talat ) come good in future.
If Talat and Haris can be cement themselves inplace of Maliks and Hafeezs and keep this Imad guy out of the team then we would surely be better side .
Future is promising and hopefully these young guys ( faheem , shadab , hassan , shaheen, Talat ) come good in future.
He was trying to be nice with you. He,should have used WILL
They were not playing during that series as well plus the same can be said for Pakistan as they have quite a different lineup than what played in NZ.
AssassinatedDevil
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Topic of thread is simply not the case anymore. A year ago i would've agreed that the gap between the sides is getting larger and larger. But the rise of our fast bowling nucleus and the duo of Babar and Fakhar have provided us with much needed change in our national side. If Fakhar is fiery hot, then Babar can be ice cold if the situation demands. Up until 2016 this unqiue blend was missing from our side. India is still a bit ahead because of their batting but seeing how less Pak and India play each other, I'd say the odds of each team winning in their next encounter is 50-50.
Rayyman
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Once again we are chest thumping after destroying C-team Windies. India would've smashed 250 on these pitches. Poor from Pakistan batting as always. And look at Usman and Faheem's death bowling. Giving boundaries galore to Ramdin and Mohammed. They're not fit to tie the shoes of the likes of Bumrah and Bhuvneshwar. IPL'18 will show how far ahead India really is compared to PSL'18.
That's why ICC's rankings have credibility. They are not based on a single series or a tournament.
Rayyman
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I think, it's clear. The CT was a fluke. Here in the Asia Cup we have lost by 100+ runs and then 9 wickets.
India are just the better cricketing country. They are on the rise and Pakistan will only get worse from here sadly.
India are just the better cricketing country. They are on the rise and Pakistan will only get worse from here sadly.
Stewie
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This Pakistan team is not accustomed to performing well in bat friendly conditions.
They did fine in england under bowler friendly conditions. But they cant make a fist of it if bowlers are nullified.
Its not a bad team.. just not for these conditions. Thats what i think
They did fine in england under bowler friendly conditions. But they cant make a fist of it if bowlers are nullified.
Its not a bad team.. just not for these conditions. Thats what i think
the_outsider
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NZ was bowler friendly conditions. What happened there?
Wonderwoman
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It was "too bowler friendly" there.
Tyler Durden
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You are wrong. NZ was fielding-friendly conditions and Pak's poor fielding helped the NZ achieve 5-0
Pete Rose
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This is an Opus Dei thread
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