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Pakistan vs England | 2nd Test | Dubai | Oct 22-26 | Day 3

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Moeen Ali was always poor.

Even when he was picking wickets against us, I found it hard to rate him.

Does get some decent drift in England and there were some damn good spells against us but overall....meh.
 
misbah going after rashid here, gets 2 runs with lofted drive.

Pak 126/3 - lead 262
 
Bilal7 said:
Younis "looks" ordinary but it must hurt people when Younis makes them question their eyes when he keeps piling on the runs. His record in England, New Zealand and Australia must be scarring for these people, as must his record at #3.
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Pitches were flat in England in 06 and he got outperformed by MoYo the Choker. In 2010, he chickened out.

In Australia, he hasn't been able to score a hundred and in NZ, he got outperformed by MoYo again.

We saw his worth in the first and third Test of SA, where he failed on the lively wickets.

In short: his overseas record is misleading, because statistics are just a guide. Had you followed his career, from his debut, you will agree that he is a mediocre player of pace.

His ODI record is the biggest proof.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Moeen Ali was always poor.

Even when he was picking wickets against us, I found it hard to rate him.

Does get some decent drift in England and there were some damn good spells against us but overall....meh.
Click to expand...

No he's actually quite good for a part timer.
 
Bilal7 said:
He's merely a good swing/seam bowler that needs help from the conditions to be effective. Hence, the merging of 'Cloud' and 'Anderson'.
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How do you explain his good record in the last few years in India, SL, UAE (2012 and now). He has learned to reverse, and he is hard to hit. Can't swing the Kookaburra miles but he is always a threat with the new ball.

I wonder why our batsmen are struggling to hit this trundler around the park.
 
Anderson has just given 8 runs in 8 overs. And here we are debating we can play pacers :facepalm:


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Younis' pads time the ball better against pace than his bat.
 
Mamoon said:
Pitches were flat in England in 06 and he got outperformed by MoYo the Choker. In 2010, he chickened out.

In Australia, he hasn't been able to score a hundred and in NZ, he got outperformed by MoYo again.

We saw his worth in the first and third Test of SA, where he failed on the lively wickets.

In short: his overseas record is misleading, because statistics are just a guide. Had you followed his career, from his debut, you will agree that he is a mediocre player of pace.

His ODI record is the biggest proof.
Click to expand...

So getting out-performed by Yousuf somehow negates the fact that he did excellently in two of the four best places for pace bowling? Might not have a century in Australia but a 40+ average in absence means he was consistent, which is good, especially for a #3.

The pitches were flat but there was definitely swing on offer. There is nothing misleading about this, only a pathetic refusal to accept the facts and not rate your own eyes as the best judge for everything.

What does his ODI record have to do with anything? He is a poor ODI player, just like Gavasker, Dravid, Pujara, etc. What argument are you making here?
 
Oh no, Atherton, don't ask Rameez about pakistani players, even not about Misbah
 
yasir said:
Anderson has just given 8 runs in 8 overs. And here we are debating we can play pacers :facepalm:


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Click to expand...

Why should they attack Anderson when Rashid is giving them a buffet? No offense but some of these arguments are childish. Even at school level, it is a basic tactic to attack the inferior bowler and not take unnecessary chances against the better bowlers.
 
Haroon786 said:
He's a part timer being made to play a front line role - he simply isn't skilled enough to be a main spinner.
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And since he is rated as main spinner or judged as main spinner...comments about him will be regarding his skills as a main spinner.

As a Test bat, he is dodgy too.
 
aliasad1998 said:
If moeen is twice as good as samit. How can samit and moeen both be twice as good as rashid
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English wrist-spin is a mysterious thing, not many can make sense of it.

No matter how mediocre I think Rashid is, Cook has handled him poorly. A captain can make or break a spinner and Cook isn't backing his leggie with these fields.

Misbah deserves a decent amount of credit for the way Yasir has come into the team and performed so well from day one. Kaneria was a fantastically talented bowler but Inzi's captaincy did him no favours.
 
Mamoon said:
Pitches were flat in England in 06 and he got outperformed by MoYo the Choker. In 2010, he chickened out.
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That's rubbish, the PCB didn't select him for that tour thanks to Ijaz Butt's lunacy and massive ego. We all saw how well our batsmen did as a result.
 
Last 10 overs: RR of 3.70. All of this without taking risks. Fantastic batting.
 
Haha Misbah, fooled both keeper and slip fielder :D
 
Bilal7 said:
Why should they attack Anderson when Rashid is giving them a buffet? No offense but some of these arguments are childish. Even at school level, it is a basic tactic to attack the inferior bowler and not take unnecessary chances against the better bowlers.
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Exactly.whats the point?? Theyre playing 2 rubbish spinners and were attacking them
 
:))) :)))

Misbah is literally toying with the field. English lions should join the circus.
 
LOL .... that was funny .. Misbah just bamboozled them :D (intentionally or unintentionally) doesnt matter :D
 
Bilal7 said:
Why should they attack Anderson when Rashid is giving them a buffet? No offense but some of these arguments are childish. Even at school level, it is a basic tactic to attack the inferior bowler and not take unnecessary chances against the better bowlers.
Click to expand...

You are arguing on both side. Anderson is not a good bowler and we play fast bowling so well, you cannot have both ways.

In our language it is call "lambay katay ball" [emoji41][emoji41][emoji41]


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Bilal7 said:
So getting out-performed by Yousuf somehow negates the fact that he did excellently in two of the four best places for pace bowling? Might not have a century in Australia but a 40+ average in absence means he was consistent, which is good, especially for a #3.

The pitches were flat but there was definitely swing on offer. There is nothing misleading about this, only a pathetic refusal to accept the facts and not rate your own eyes as the best judge for everything.

What does his ODI record have to do with anything? He is a poor ODI player, just like Gavasker, Dravid, Pujara, etc. What argument are you making here?
Click to expand...

Gavaskar and Dravid were better ODI players for their era than Younis. Reason I brought MoYo into the discussion is because people talk about Younis' overseas record as if he reached heights that no Pakistani batsman has done so before. He doesn't even have a hundred in Australia.

Looking at his overseas record tells you nothing about his ability to dominate pace, and you cannot be a good player of any type of bowling if you are unable to dominate them.

He is an average player of pace bowling. Don't take the 1/10 comments to heart, that's nonsense of course.

Giving him 7.5 when you gave Amla bhai and de Villiers 9.5 is not right either. He is a 6 or a 6.5.
 
Two runs away from 9000 runs. Burnol requested by Khan's haters.
 
Haroon786 said:
I refuse to rate him as a main spinner.
Click to expand...

That's your call. But point is comments about Moeen Ali by anyone in this forum is reg main spinner and not part timer.

He is playing like the main spinner here and judged according to that.

Plus bowling is not a plus for him unlike other part timers. He needs both batting and bowling to stay in the team.
 
Markhor said:
That's rubbish, the PCB didn't select him for that tour thanks to Ijaz Butt's lunacy and massive ego. We all saw how well our batsmen did as a result.
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I am sorry but he has no one but himself to blame. He always loses his mind when he becomes the captain and he lost control of the dressing room within 9 months and his attitude explains why that happened.

He chickened out of leadership and was rightfully dropped at that point, and there was no chance of him doing well in those conditions any way so he should thank his lucky stars.

Few months later, for the Australian tour, he refused to show up to the training camp when called by the management and chose to fish in his village.

I love how he has been made a fallen hero of that saga, when it was his own inability to manage the dressing room that proved to be his downfall.

He is the opposite of Misbah: emotionally unstable to be a leader.
 
Saying Junaid Khan has loads of potential is baffling statement. Who has stopped his potential??


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sensible-indian-fan said:
That's your call. But point is comments about Moeen Ali by anyone in this forum is reg main spinner and not part timer.

He is playing like the main spinner here and judged according to that.

Plus bowling is not a plus for him unlike other part timers. He needs both batting and bowling to stay in the team.
Click to expand...

By Asian standards, he's garbage tbh.
 
YK closing in on 9000 runs [emoji106][emoji106]


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Mamoon said:
Gavaskar and Dravid were better ODI players for their era than Younis. Reason I brought MoYo into the discussion is because people talk about Younis' overseas record as if he reached heights that no Pakistani batsman has done so before. He doesn't even have a hundred in Australia.

Looking at his overseas record tells you nothing about his ability to dominate pace, and you cannot be a good player of any type of bowling if you are unable to dominate them.

He is an average player of pace bowling. Don't take the 1/10 comments to heart, that's nonsense of course.

Giving him 7.5 when you gave Amla bhai and de Villiers 9.5 is not right either. He is a 6 or a 6.5.
Click to expand...

Yes, yes, whatever. The point is that Dravid and Gavasker were poor players in ODIs but that had nothing to do with their ability against pace, same goes for Younis.

Did I say such a thing? I don't think so. I gave him a 7.5, not a 9.5 against pace and my rating shows that he has been good against pace throughout his career and "doesn't even have a hundred in Australia" is not a valid argument. How many legends have centuries in every single test-playing country?

You don't have to dominate bowlers to be a good player. Only the very best players can dominate the bowling while also being consistent enough to make it count. Younis does dominate the spinners which puts him ahead of guys like Kallis and Cook as far as this criteria is concerned. Dominating means owning the bowlers, putting them off their line and making them helpless against you. Not just tuk tukking in a text-book manner, like you suggested.

He's a 7.5 easily.
 
Congratulations to him, but I hope we don't pay too much if he desires to add another 1,000 runs and tours England and Australia next year.
 
The ATG does it, MashAllah. Some people are gritting their teeth.
 
Mamoon said:
Congratulations to him, but I hope we don't pay too much if he desires to add another 1,000 runs and tours England and Australia next year.
Click to expand...

Trust me mamoon he wont be as bad as hafeez, shehzad, shan and malik. Ill choose him at 42 over them. Ofcourse theres quality on the bench mainly in azhar, haris and babar
 
Another fifty on the way but none of England's four pacers have managed to induce a single false shot against the legend, MashAllah.

But of course, no sixes against the pacers so he must be poor.
 
Bilal7 said:
He averages 50+ at #3 and 50+ in England and New Zealand. I've already acknowledged that he has an awkward technique but that is the case when he plays spin too. Instead of using smileys, maybe you could develop a better argument as to why you think he's poor against pace, other than the generic "duh, he look bad against fast balling, duh, he cannot hit six against fast balling."
Click to expand...

It doesn't get more obvious than this, if you can't see his incompetency of handling pacers throughout his career with this current innings being a sample size to judge his skills, then I'm afraid you've willfully put a blindfold on making you incapable to see his deficiencies when he's facing faster men.

As for developing a better argument to convince my case, I would say first and foremost he has a very limited technique (which you agree on) that makes him incapable to maneuver the ball from a solid base, his feet get stuck in the pitch and he's always falling over to his left side making him an LBW candidate to in swinging deliveries which is the reason why he bats outside the crease to cover the line of the delivery to avoid getting LBW. Moreover he doesn't have the power to pierce the gaps on the off side and mostly get 2s or an edge through gully that race away for 4. He doesn't seem assertive or imposing himself on pace bowlers in contrast to his ability to handle spin bowlers with ease and authority. Which is the reason why he fills his boots against spin bowlers when they are introduced into the attack to mask his incompetency, lack of application and ability to score against pacers. His SR goes tumbling down once pacers come into attack and you'd be praying that he doesn't give it away with a poor out of jail shot or an edge to the keeper/slips which is mostly the case when he isn't in survival mode.

Want me to continue or is it enough to convince you?
 
Bilal7 said:
Yes, yes, whatever. The point is that Dravid and Gavasker were poor players in ODIs but that had nothing to do with their ability against pace, same goes for Younis.

Did I say such a thing? I don't think so. I gave him a 7.5, not a 9.5 against pace and my rating shows that he has been good against pace throughout his career and "doesn't even have a hundred in Australia" is not a valid argument. How many legends have centuries in every single test-playing country?

You don't have to dominate bowlers to be a good player. Only the very best players can dominate the bowling while also being consistent enough to make it count. Younis does dominate the spinners which puts him ahead of guys like Kallis and Cook as far as this criteria is concerned. Dominating means owning the bowlers, putting them off their line and making them helpless against you. Not just tuk tukking in a text-book manner, like you suggested.

He's a 7.5 easily.
Click to expand...

Kallis and Cook are not widely renowned for their special powers against particular type of bowling but it is their ability to bat for long periods of time and discipline which stands out.

Younis is better than them against spin but he cannot be considered a quality player of pace bowling unless he learns to dominate.
 
Come on Sikander Bakht, surely you should know when Pakistan's next Test series are :facepalm:
 
Critical Analyst said:
It doesn't get more obvious than this, if you can't see his incompetency of handling pacers throughout his career with this current innings being a sample size to judge his skills, then I'm afraid you've willfully put a blindfold on making you incapable to see his deficiencies when he's facing faster men.

As for developing a better argument to convince my case, I would say first and foremost he has a very limited technique (which you agree on) that makes him incapable to maneuver the ball from a solid base, his feet get stuck in the pitch and he's always falling over to his left side making him an LBW candidate to in swinging deliveries which is the reason why he bats outside the crease to cover the line of the delivery to avoid getting LBW. Moreover he doesn't have the power to pierce the gaps on the off side and mostly get 2s or an edge through gully that race away for 4. He doesn't seem assertive or imposing himself on pace bowlers in contrast to his ability to handle spin bowlers with ease and authority. Which is the reason why he fills his boots against spin bowlers when they are introduced into the attack to mask his incompetency, lack of application and ability to score against pacers. His SR goes tumbling down once pacers come into attack and you'd be praying that he doesn't give it away with a poor out of jail shot or an edge to the keeper/slips which is mostly the case when he isn't in survival mode.

Want me to continue or is it enough to convince you?
Click to expand...

Please don't because I'll be extremely bored. If you can bring some facts into the discussion, instead of your opinion on Younis, that'll be great though.

Mamoon said:
Kallis and Cook are not widely renowned for their special powers against particular type of bowling but it is their ability to bat for long periods of time and discipline which stands out.

Younis is better than them against spin but he cannot be considered a quality player of pace bowling unless he learns to dominate.
Click to expand...

Younis has just as much ability to bat for long periods of time as Cook, Kallis and Dravid do. Unlike the former two, Younis also dominates the spinners. I see no reason why he can't be called a good player of pace bowling as long as he keeps accumulating runs against them, like he has.
 
aliasad1998 said:
Trust me mamoon he wont be as bad as hafeez, shehzad, shan and malik. Ill choose him at 42 over them. Ofcourse theres quality on the bench mainly in azhar, haris and babar
Click to expand...

Haris Sohail needs to replace him in the Test team before our overseas tours. We saw the difference in their ability to handle pace in the World Cup.
 
Bilal7 said:
Please don't because I'll be extremely bored. If you can bring some facts into the discussion, instead of your opinion on Younis, that'll be great though.



Younis has just as much ability to bat for long periods of time as Cook, Kallis and Dravid do. Unlike the former two, Younis also dominates the spinners. I see no reason why he can't be called a good player of pace bowling as long as he keeps accumulating runs against them, like he has.
Click to expand...

Yes so call him a great player of spin. No has an issue with that, but he doesn't warrant that title vs. Pace.
 
Congratulations to Younis Khan; wonderful achievement which I hope isn't followed up with a delusional interview.

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Markhor said:
That was definitely a GIF/avatar-worthy moment.
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y434bcz.gif
 
At this point, Younis is more likely to be run-out than fall to one of the English pacers.
 
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