PCB set to reappoint Babar Azam as captain ahead of the T20 World Cup 2024

[Dr_Bassim]

Kohli is much much better of a batsmen than Babar.

But that was never the discussion.

Also not sure why you’re straight up lying and making up numbers.

15 out of 19 of Babar’s centuries have resulted in wins. This is 78%, not 40%. When Babar scores a centuries we win most of the time.

You are right.

My bad, I didnt deliberately lie.

But my point of original statistics remains.

That most of his centuries have come against weak attacks or poor teams.

You are welcome to refute that if you want.

 

[IMMY69]

I will give him above average.

He is not a poor batsmen, never said that.

Maybe saying average was a bit harsh but I am tired him going missing when it matters most.

Well in that case please watch or find the score cards from 2016 to 2019, see what middle order we had and the form of those batsmen and compare that to the middle order from 2019 to 2024...

You'll see the retirement of a couple of experienced middle order batsman and another who got injured and subsequently has hardly played...

All this will tell show you that post 2019 our middle order has been almost non existent... these are important factors to consider

 

[Mamoon]

That's so false its even not funny.

The entire reason you don't rate Amla is his bilateral performances and lack of tournament performances.

The entire reason Australia is highly rated is because they win Cups.

Not JAMODI's.

Suddenly even the Cups have no value and bilaterals are best over period because Babar is flavor of the month.

You seem to be losing it for such a respected poster.

You need to put things into perspective.

I don’t rate Amla relative to white ball greats who were great both in bilateral series and tournaments.

Amla has amazing numbers, but he has been shockingly poor in tournaments which means because of his serial choking, you can’t rate him on par with white ball legends like Sir Viv, Ponting, Tendulkar, Lara, Jayasuriya, Ganguly, Kohli, Rohit, Warner etc.

But it will be idiotic to say in isolation that he is a poor batsman when he has scored 27 centuries at an average of 49 in 178 innings. He is a better ODI batsman than 90% of the batsmen to have played this format, but he is clearly a run below the remaining 10% that represent the cream of the format.

Winning cups alone do not make you great so your argument that the entire reason Australia is great is because of its trophies is not correct.

What makes you great is winning cups + maintaining consistently over a long period of time. You can’t judge the entire career’s body of work based on tournament performances.

Tournament performances elevates an average career into a good one and a good career into a great one and a great career into a legendary one.

However, it is does not make things black and white. It doesn’t make or break a career.

My admiration for the Indian team is no secret in spite of the fact that they have 0 trophies since 2013. Why? Simply because the consistency that they have demonstrated across formats home and away year in year out makes them an incredible team.

If you think that trophies are the only thing that matters, would you say that the West Indies have been the third greatest cricket nation in the last 20 years?

Do you think the West Indies in the last 20 years have enjoyed that reputation and have been looked at as one of the most successful cricket teams in this period?

 

[160KPH]

You are right.

My bad, I didnt deliberately lie.

Okay fair enough.

But if you thought 40% of his centuries resulted in wins this whole time and when you were corrected and it was 78% and yet you still hold the exact same opinion then that makes me question if your opinion could ever be changed to begin with.

 

[Mamoon]

Another Strawman.

You claimed he's on the caliber of Indian bats and that he'd world class.

Both words which I've debunked multiple times. As I said you've run out of points.

I ask again - please quote the post where I claimed that he is of the same caliber as the top Indian batsmen?

What part of my question do you not understand?

You have made a claim about what I said and to back that claim, you need to quote the exact post where I made that claim.

 

[160KPH]

Well in that case please watch or find the score cards from 2016 to 2019, see what middle order we had and the form of those batsmen and compare that to the middle order from 2019 to 2024...

You'll see the retirement of a couple of experienced middle order batsman and another who got injured and subsequently has hardly played...

All this will tell show you that post 2019 our middle order has been almost non existent... these are important factors to consider

Yeah the reality is that when Babar scores 50+ but especially 100+, our win rate goes up dramatically.

If Babar isn’t scoring massively, we usually lose. As evident by the last WC.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Okay fair enough.

But if you thought 40% of his centuries resulted in wins this whole time and when you were corrected and it was 78% and yet you still hold the exact same opinion then that makes me question if your opinion could ever be changed to begin with.

It will once Babar starts impacting matches in tournaments.

Or starts scoring against "A" class attacks.

I don't need 15 centuries against top class attacks.

Even a few good knocks in tournaments can make my opinion change to him being a great batsmen, if not world class.

 

[mominsaigol]

I ask again - please quote the post where I claimed that he is of the same caliber as the top Indian batsmen?

What part of my question do you not understand?

You have made a claim about what I said and to back that claim, you need to quote the exact post where I made that claim.

I'll ask topspin to fetch it, or I'll look for it and get back to you tmr.

I can't go searching atm. My guess is its in the imad waseem thread.

But I 100% remember you made this claim with your words being comparing babar to Indian batsmen and discussing why he'd be included and an assest to this team.

This is sadly your final argument you can resort to since I don't have time to soul search multiple threads to fetch comments.

 

[mominsaigol]

Sanity at last.
Babar is a poor captain but a fine batsman and certainly the best Pakistan have.
Is he as good as Kohli, Root or Williamson, let alone Smith at their best, clearly not but he is still an excellent player.

Pakistan will not win the T20 World Cup and it is frankly irrelevant if the captain were Babar, SSA or Imad.
None of them are tactical geniuses but T20 doesn’t really require huge intellectual powers - the basic problem is that the players are not good enough.
No captain can change that (or indeed neither can a highly lauded, overpaid foreign coach who will last 6 months before being fired by yet another new head of the PCB)

So you acknowledge that as a player babar is not good enough including all of Pakistani players?

 

[Statpadder Inc]

The idea that Babar Azam is a minnow basher is complete nonsense. The best format to look at this would be Test cricket since you almost always play the other teams best sides.

His career averages against all teams: 45.85
His career average against SENA: 45.7

His numbers against SENA are almost the exact same as his career numbers. In fact the reason his numbers aren’t higher is because he’s missed out on minnow bashing when he had the chance. His worst performance in Test was against Zimbabwe where he only scored 2 runs in 2 matches. The opposite of minnow bashing.

He averages 71 at home and 36 away, huge discrepancy

 

[Statpadder Inc]

25 out of 50 of Virat’s centuries are against West Indies, Zimbabwe, and Bangladesh

He's scored 1 century against Zimbabwe, this so dishonest.

And no, he doesn't have 24 centuries against wi and bang combined

 

[daytrader]

Babar is not world class lol now I've heard everything. Thank you PP for the recent laughs.

 

[mominsaigol]

The idea that Babar Azam is a minnow basher is complete nonsense. The best format to look at this would be Test cricket since you almost always play the other teams best sides.

His career averages against all teams: 45.85
His career average against SENA: 45.7

His numbers against SENA are almost the exact same as his career numbers. In fact the reason his numbers aren’t higher is because he’s missed out on minnow bashing when he had the chance. His worst performance in Test was against Zimbabwe where he only scored 2 runs in 2 matches. The opposite of minnow bashing.

It's inflated due to test batting on pindi pitches. Did you watch the aussie game at home? Abdullah and imam were batting like bradman , England tonked 500 on the first day etc etc.

Away from home he averages 36, because they don't prepare flat trackers for Test.

Stats are always a terrible metric when used in the hands of the wrong person.

 

[mominsaigol]

Yeah the reality is that when Babar scores 50+ but especially 100+, our win rate goes up dramatically.

If Babar isn’t scoring massively, we usually lose. As evident by the last WC.

Babar not scoring heavily caused us to reach the final in 2022 which was the last cup we played before 2023.

Even if that was mostly kudrat ki nazam.

 

[Maliq_Mudasir]

To much fighting on Pp for the last few days, while players are enjoying snooker at the Kakul camp.

 

[160KPH]

He's scored 1 century against Zimbabwe, this so dishonest.

And no, he doesn't have 24 centuries against wi and bang combined

Sorry, I was trying to say Zimbabwe, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, and West Indies. Don’t know how Sri Lanka got out off in my message.

But sure, subtracting Zimbabwe he has 24/50 centuries against Sri Lanka, West Indies, and Bangladesh.

I was not using that to demean Kohli’s record. I was pointing out that all top batsmen will obviously convert more scores into 100’s against bad bowling attacks than good ones. That’s what you would expect.

He averages 71 at home and 36 away, huge discrepancy

That was not the argument that was being had. He was talking about Babar minnow bashing. My post was showing that Babar has performed against the top teams the same way he has performed against bottom teams. Not about home or away performance.

But regardless, in SENA countries, Babar averages 53 in England, 46 in New Zealand, 36 in South Africa, and 25 in Australia. Considering the current SA pitches, the only country where he’s been out right not good in has been Australia where he has only one memorable innings which was the 100 at the Gabba.

Away from home he averages 36, because they don't prepare flat trackers for Test.

He averages 53 in England and 46 in New Zealand where the ball moves plenty.

It's inflated due to test batting on pindi pitches. Did you watch the aussie game at home? Abdullah and imam were batting like bradman , England tonked 500 on the first day etc etc.

Also you’re just diverting the point. You guys were saying he is a minnow basher and all his scoring is against the weak sides. I just demonstrated that he scores the same against weak sides as he does the top sides.

Please don’t change the topic when I prove a point wrong if you’re not going to first admit being wrong about minnow bashing. If you want to have a conversation about home vs away then that’s a different conversation.

 

[160KPH]

Babar is not world class lol now I've heard everything. Thank you PP for the recent laughs.

Only on online forums is it possible to find these kinds of opinions

 

[160KPH]

Babar not scoring heavily caused us to reach the final in 2022 which was the last cup we played before 2023.

Even if that was mostly kudrat ki nazam.

This is called cherry picking. For someone who says they know a lot about stats and criticize others using them it’s shocking to me that you would make basically the most fundamental error possible.

Also you’re jumping between formats.

Babar Azam has 3 T20I centuries, we won all 3 matches.
Babar Azam has 36 T20 50+ scores and we won 25 of those matches which is 69.4%.

 

[the Great Khan]

Nothing changes on this forum..over twenty years and we still have to put up with stupid idiotic posts as above..

 

[Statpadder Inc]

Sorry, I was trying to say Zimbabwe, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, and West Indies. Don’t know how Sri Lanka got out off in my message.

But sure, subtracting Zimbabwe he has 24/50 centuries against Sri Lanka, West Indies, and Bangladesh.

Kohli made his debut in 2008, sri lanka reached the wc final in 2011 and the ct semis in 2013, they were a top odi team till 2014.

The sl team that he played in his early years was much better than the one babar feasted on

 

[Sunny_majoka]

We have Saud, Imad and sarfraz with the former two being much better cricketers than babr can ever dream to be, so no we are not out of options.

It’s just the fact that the man in your profile is one of the most corrupt characters in PCT

On what basis you declared saud and imad better cricketers than Babar?

What have they achieved which Babar didn't?

 

[PakEngFan]

Usman Khan and rizwan aren't relevant In this discussion but yes, I'd say he should. I'll 100% back that claim.

The problem is you can't back it. Your argument is nothing more then a personal opinion of Oh ik he shall fail in international, muhahaha, Rizzu zindabad.

Not a valid argument.

Yes let's ignore rizwan stats and being our best batsmen in the recent Australia series and pick a guy who hasn't even got a 50 in FC cricket. Yes mine is an opinion and yous is a fact.

Makes perfect sense.

 

[PakEngFan]

Babar Azam put up a masterclass in ODI batting, scoring 151 off 131 balls, to help Pakistan thump Nepal by 238 runs in the opening match of the 2023 Asia Cup.

Babar Azam scores 158 vs England (bowlers being Saqib Mahmood, Lewis Gregory, Brydon Carse and Gregory Overton.) Good knock but sadly overshadowed by Lewis Gregory and James Vince as Pakistan lost the match.

Babar Azam has 19 international centuries out of which 5 are vs WI, 3 vs SL, 2 vs Zimbabwe (one resulted in a tied match) 1 vs Nepal which led to his winning centuries.

Both his centuries vs England have been in losing causes.

His two centuries vs NZ are valuable.

His one vs South Africa is good.

2 of his centuries vs Australia resulted in wins. One of them was chasing 210 runs vs the likes of Behrendoff, Nathan Ellis and he hit 105 off 115 balls. The other century vs Australia vs valuable as Pakistan chased 349, however the bowlers were like Abbot and Ellis again.

The one other century against Australia needs not to be discussed as we all know it was the height of selfishness.

60 percent of Babar's centuries have come against West Indies, Sri Lanka, Zimbabwe and Nepal.

40 percent of Babar's centuries have come against good teams like Australia, England, NZ and South Africa. Out of those 3 of them have resulted in losses.

In short he has 5 centuries against top teams that have resulted in wins.

Out of those 5 centuries 2 vs Australia had a bowling attack of Ellis, Behrendoff, and Abbot.

3 out of 19 centuries of Babar Azam have come against top class attacks that have resulted in wins.

And he is world class?

Please give me a break.

You didn't give me the centuries against Nepal and uganda. I ask again could you please give us his centuries against both of the teams. You said centuries not a century.

 

[Mrhandsome]

For Babars sake i hope he is not made captain. He was starting to find his batting form and i am not sure if he needs the burden of captaincy right now. Rizwan is a confirmed pick in all three formats and IMO is a shrewd captain who can get better out of the team

 

[mominsaigol]

This is called cherry picking. For someone who says they know a lot about stats and criticize others using them it’s shocking to me that you would make basically the most fundamental error possible.

Also you’re jumping between formats.

Babar Azam has 3 T20I centuries, we won all 3 matches.
Babar Azam has 36 T20 50+ scores and we won 25 of those matches which is 69.4%.

It's not called cherry picking. Those 3 100's are minnow bashers.

Babar is not a good t20 bat by any means. Their isn't any discussion to be had beyond pointless chatter.

Tbf he's a good odi no 3 though, and decent at test in conditions that aren't aussie grounds. Key word decent. Nothing special though.

 

[mominsaigol]

Yes let's ignore rizwan stats and being our best batsmen in the recent Australia series and pick a guy who hasn't even got a 50 in FC cricket. Yes mine is an opinion and yous is a fact.

Makes perfect sense.

Did we win against Australia though? No? Okay good.

Deja vu much .

 

[PakEngFan]

The idea that Babar Azam is a minnow basher is complete nonsense. The best format to look at this would be Test cricket since you almost always play the other teams best sides.

His career averages against all teams: 45.85
His career average against SENA: 45.7

His numbers against SENA are almost the exact same as his career numbers. In fact the reason his numbers aren’t higher is because he’s missed out on minnow bashing when he had the chance. His worst performance in Test was against Zimbabwe where he only scored 2 runs in 2 matches. The opposite of minnow bashing.

The only people who think he's a minnow basher are his haters. Yes Babar has his faults and is no way near perfect but he's far from a minnow basher. His worst teams in t20s are Bangladesh, Sri Lanka and Afghanistan but yes his a minnow basher. In odis his worst record is also against Bangladesh and the only team he struggled against is India but yes he's a minnow basher.

 

[160KPH]

Did we win against Australia though? No? Okay good.

Deja vu much .

That’s a terrible point because if even 2 other batsmen managed to play as good as Rizwan did we would won a match or two.

If all our batsmen played as good in Australia as Rizwan did we would have swept the series.

 

[160KPH]

That’s a terrible point because if even 2 other batsmen managed to play as good as Rizwan did we would won a match or two.

If all our batsmen played as good in Australia as Rizwan did we would have swept the series.

And on top of that he’s not even a specialist batsmen, he’s our WK batsmen.

 

[mominsaigol]

That’s a terrible point because if even 2 other batsmen managed to play as good as Rizwan did we would won a match or two.

If all our batsmen played as good in Australia as Rizwan did we would have swept the series.

I am JOKING, I only give my attention to those deserving, for only a few may revel in my glory.

Jokes aside, I've never been serious on imad being made a prime minister or rizwan being replaced in all formats.

It's as relevant as you claiming our seminfinalists will be Pakistan × 4,

I do it to mess with rizzu fans and imad fans , but I want UK over rizwan in t20 same with imad over mawaz in all formats.

 

[160KPH]

The only people who think he's a minnow basher are his haters. Yes Babar has his faults and is no way near perfect but he's far from a minnow basher. His worst teams in t20s are Bangladesh, Sri Lanka and Afghanistan but yes his a minnow basher. In odis his worst record is also against Bangladesh and the only team he struggled against is India but yes he's a minnow basher.

Yeah if you look at his record he performed better against top teams than against minnows. His worst Test series ever was against Zimbabwe


Shows you how little they care for the truth or facts.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

You didn't give me the centuries against Nepal and uganda. I ask again could you please give us his centuries against both of the teams. You said centuries not a century.

You do know that when we say Uganda its more of a metaphor to compare that he always wants to play against Nepal, Hong Kong or Uganda because that's where his best comes from.

If you actually want him to play Uganda and score a century, that's another story.

 

[mominsaigol]

Yeah if you look at his record he performed better against top teams than against minnows. His worst Test series ever was against Zimbabwe


Shows you how little they care for the truth or facts.

How many of those top teams were top teams though?

A d string Australia or him bullying a d string sa with a 49 ball 100 doesn't count.

Theirs a reason he gets exposed in every tournament against top sides. And unlike South Africa which is more of a mentality curse due to their awful never ending chasing woes,

When has he performed well against top sides?

His 68 and 101 are his most notable innings with that 196 in test as well. He's played notable innings no one denies it.

But calling him world class is ridiculous. And always will be. Max you can claim he's world class for PAKISTAN STANDARDS AS A BATTER ONLY.

You can't claim he's world class around the world, that's nonsense.

 

[Mamoon]

@Dr_Bassim

You didn’t reply. As per you, winning trophies are the only thing that matters.

ICC trophies won in the last 20 years:

Australia: 7
India, England and West Indies: 3

Are you comfortable stating that the West Indies have been on par with India and England as the most successful cricket team of the last 20 years?

Do you look back at the last 20 years of West Indies cricket and view at a successful era?

 

[Mamoon]

I'll ask topspin to fetch it, or I'll look for it and get back to you tmr.

I can't go searching atm. My guess is its in the imad waseem thread.

But I 100% remember you made this claim with your words being comparing babar to Indian batsmen and discussing why he'd be included and an assest to this team.

This is sadly your final argument you can resort to since I don't have time to soul search multiple threads to fetch comments.

No. You will not ask your fellow ignoramus to fetch it.

You made a claim and you have to provide evidence to support your claim.

Don’t try to run away now. Own up to your accusations or apologies for lying.

 

[Mamoon]

You do know that when we say Uganda its more of a metaphor to compare that he always wants to play against Nepal, Hong Kong or Uganda because that's where his best comes from.

If you actually want him to play Uganda and score a century, that's another story.

The only player who needs Nepal, HK and Uganda is Imad Wasim.

Bro averages 60 with the ball vs the top ODI sides and has the ego of Shane Warne.

 

[mominsaigol]

No. You will not ask your fellow ignoramus to fetch it.

You made a claim and you have to provide evidence to support your claim.

Don’t try to run away now. Own up to your accusations or apologies for lying.

I'm not in the mood to search, and you know full well that I am not lying. As I said this statement is the last thing you can hold onto after I thrashed every single point.

We had this discussion just a few days ago, you know full well what you claimed.

You outright said Indians have many great talents but thay doesn't mean babar isn't in their class.

And I'm not a rat, you made it clear he's not on par with kohli and rohit, but you also claimed that they WOULD HAPPILY accept him into the team.

And lastly even in an unlikely one in a million scenario I'm unable to find evidence, I still wouldn't apologise to you.

I have no respect for someone who tells people to act like adults but spams clown emojis or acts salty with sarcastic comments(which got deleted btw) for someone he doesn't like getting POTW, as if I care about that.

Nor do I have respect for someone who called me and other pakistani's living in Australia as 2nd class citizens, you should apologise.

 

[mominsaigol]

No. You will not ask your fellow ignoramus to fetch it.

You made a claim and you have to provide evidence to support your claim.

Don’t try to run away now. Own up to your accusations or apologies for lying.

found the post, Happy now?

 

[PakEngFan]

You do know that when we say Uganda its more of a metaphor to compare that he always wants to play against Nepal, Hong Kong or Uganda because that's where his best comes from.

If you actually want him to play Uganda and score a century, that's another story.

So he doesn't have centuries against Uganda and Nepal after all. It was just your fantasy.

 

[mominsaigol]

View attachment 142963found the post, Happy now?

@Mamoon

BTW ik you're going to rat, so I'll answer for you, I didn't bring imad up, you did to avoid my question on Indian batsmen. No point regarding imad being in Indian team was ever made before you derailed for the millionth time.

Now where is my 2nd rate citizen apology?

 

[PakEngFan]

Yeah if you look at his record he performed better against top teams than against minnows. His worst Test series ever was against Zimbabwe

Shows you how little they care for the truth or facts.

When you present facts they run away as usual. The definition of haters when presented with stats they can't seem to answer anything.

 

[mominsaigol]

When you present facts they run away as usual. The definition of haters when presented with stats they can't seem to answer anything.

My prediction for this cup.

Babar dominated in group stages against usa, Canada and Ireland and likely hits one century as well since as captain he'll promote himself to open with rizwan or saim.

Against India and in super 8's he'll fail almost every game besides maybe 1 where he'll perform possibly either against NZ scoring a soft 50.

Afterwards, we get eliminated in super 8's, you'll quote his inflated stats lol.

Bookmark this post by the end of June/July when the tournament ends. Thanks.

 

[Sadozai]

Rizwan bottled three finals back of back. His mentality is questionable.

However, that is not reason why PCB have completely sidelined him as a potential leader.

We will find out the reality behind Rizwan’s fall in the pecking order soon.

So according to your logic, the one who is yet to guide his teams to 4 finals is better captain than the one who has played 4 finals in a row and won 1 of them?

 

[PakEngFan]

My prediction for this cup.

Babar dominated in group stages against usa, Canada and Ireland and likely hits one century as well since as captain he'll promote himself to open with rizwan or saim.

Against India and in super 8's he'll fail almost every game besides maybe 1 where he'll perform possibly either against NZ scoring a soft 50.

Afterwards, we get eliminated in super 8's, you'll quote his inflated stats lol.

Bookmark this post by the end of June/July when the tournament ends. Thanks.

For a start this is more of your hope and again it has nothing to do my post.

 

[mominsaigol]

For a start this is more of your hope and again it has nothing to do my post.

They say hope is the most powerful thing in this world, without hope their is only despair.

 

[moghul]

Younis Khan took 7 months to lose the entire dressing room who ended up taking oaths against him. A decent captain but a terrible leader who couldn’t unify the team and build a cohesive culture of mutual respect.

Babar’s players are deeply loyal to him. This shows his admirable leadership qualities. Babar is a leader.

He is a leader in dressing room but a loser in the field , mentally very weak .

 

[Dr_Bassim]

So he doesn't have centuries against Uganda and Nepal after all. It was just your fantasy.

He has a century against Nepal.

 

[IMMY69]

My prediction for this cup.

Babar dominated in group stages against usa, Canada and Ireland and likely hits one century as well since as captain he'll promote himself to open with rizwan or saim.

Against India and in super 8's he'll fail almost every game besides maybe 1 where he'll perform possibly either against NZ scoring a soft 50.

Afterwards, we get eliminated in super 8's, you'll quote his inflated stats lol.

Bookmark this post by the end of June/July when the tournament ends. Thanks.

I didn't know that Babarvis the only batsman in the side

 

[mominsaigol]

I didn't know that Babarvis the only batsman in the side

We'll get eliminated in super 8's.

This new format means kudrat ki nizam won't work since last time we didn't have to face aus, Eng, NZ or afg in the group stages to reach semi's.

Aus will get rid of us in super 8's.

 

[PakEngFan]

They say hope is the most powerful thing in this world, without hope their is only despair.

Yeah keeping hoping for someone's downfall. But I thought you don't have likes and dislikes that didn't last long.

 

[PakEngFan]

He has a century against Nepal.

You said centuries against Nepal and uganda. I already said he has one against Nepal. Try again I will wait.

 

[mominsaigol]

Yeah keeping hoping for someone's downfall. But I thought you don't have likes and dislikes that didn't last long.

I didn't think you'd reply to an obviously sarcastic comment lol .

 

[IMMY69]

We'll get eliminated in super 8's.

This new format means kudrat ki nizam won't work since last time we didn't have to face aus, Eng, NZ or afg in the group stages to reach semi's.

Aus will get rid of us in super 8's.

So?
Where we end up is besides the point

 

[mominsaigol]

So?
Where we end up is besides the point

If Bobby and rizzu were world class we wouldn't end up here that's the point.

In t20 2 world class batsmen followed by medicore batsmen are usually enough to win a game assuming the bowling is also good.

It doesn't work in odi though or in test obviously but In t20 you can get away with it.

Yet the worlds no 3 and no 4 ranked batsmen in t20 can't achieve that for us. It automatically debunks the whole idea of Babar being a world class bat.

 

[Rana]

Wow, Babar's captaincy must have improved a lot in the last 3 months.

Did I miss something at the PSL?

Ask @Mamoon

He will prove to you Babar has evolved as a batsman and captain under Peshawar Zalmi

 

[IMMY69]

If Bobby and rizzu were world class we wouldn't end up here that's the point.

In t20 2 world class batsmen followed by medicore batsmen are usually enough to win a game assuming the bowling is also good.

It doesn't work in odi though or in test obviously but In t20 you can get away with it.

Yet the worlds no 3 and no 4 ranked batsmen in t20 can't achieve that for us. It automatically debunks the whole idea of Babar being a world class bat.

Two world class batsmen followed by mediocre batsman are usually enough to win in T20?

Are you trolling?

 

[Dr_Bassim]

You said centuries against Nepal and uganda. I already said he has one against Nepal. Try again I will wait.

He has a century against Zimbabwe which isnt much better than Uganda.

Funnily enough that match was tied.

Listen if you think that Babar is "Sangreal" and "Holy Grail" of cricket its fine.

You are NEVER going to convince me that I should be in awe of an average to above average player with his current level of performance.

If he improves, I will revise my opinion.

Otherwise, I dont care if you wake up to a poster of his face everyday.

He is still pretty average to above average.

Sorry.

 

[mominsaigol]

Two world class batsmen followed by mediocre batsman are usually enough to win in T20?

Are you trolling?

2 world class batsmen can score enough runs and bat out most of the game. Even one single world class bat can single handidely win the game.

If they both fail then yes it's an issue. Also no team has all 7 of their batsmen being world class atm. Only classic Australia had that luxury.

Most teams have 2 or 3. Australia have Warner, Travis and maxwell, the rest are good but not on these 3 levels.

 

[PakEngFan]

He has a century against Zimbabwe which isnt much better than Uganda.

Funnily enough that match was tied.

Listen if you think that Babar is "Sangreal" and "Holy Grail" of cricket its fine.

You are NEVER going to convince me that I should be in awe of an average to above average player with his current level of performance.

If he improves, I will revise my opinion.

Otherwise, I dont care if you wake up to a poster of his face everyday.

He is still pretty average to above average.

Sorry.

I don't care if he's average or rubbish. But I want to know his centuries against those countries which you imagined. Instead of going around in circles. just say I made it up because of my hate for Babar.

 

[Darkrai]

What a difference a couple of months can make. Shaheen was the natural choice to lead Pakistan this WC, but his abysmal performance against NZ and now in PSL has put us in this situation.

There are only four players to pick from.

4. Rizwan: His captaincy is good, but his place in the team is not guaranteed. Given that Babar will play, he could ruin the balance of the team, especially if we have Usman as well now.

3. Shadab: He is an unreliable cricketer, but he will likely play and will not ruin the balance of the team. His captaincy is ok. I'd put him ahead of Rizwan.

2. Shaheen: Guaranteed starter. Like Shadab, he's ok as a captain. Best option if you to want someone else other than Babar.

1. Babar: In a world where ATG players playing for and captaining ATG teams have failed to win WCs, Babar has done a decent job of getting to a semi-final and final in this format with a rubbish team in which there are only a couple of guaranteed starters. Selecting him as the captain for the WC will not be a bad decision.

 

[PakEngFan]

He will be Zimbabar for life

That’s his iconic presence

That's better than your heros who are on verge of getting dropped in a ramazan tournaments lol.

 

[IMMY69]

2 world class batsmen can score enough runs and bat out most of the game. Even one single world class bat can single handidely win the game.

If they both fail then yes it's an issue. Also no team has all 7 of their batsmen being world class atm. Only classic Australia had that luxury.

Most teams have 2 or 3. Australia have Warner, Travis and maxwell, the rest are good but not on these 3 levels.

We lost a semi and final...
How many clutch players did the Aussies and England have and how many of those clutch players actually scored runs?

 

[Mamoon]

@Mamoon

BTW ik you're going to rat, so I'll answer for you, I didn't bring imad up, you did to avoid my question on Indian batsmen. No point regarding imad being in Indian team was ever made before you derailed for the millionth time.

Now where is my 2nd rate citizen apology?

So what is wrong with what I said?

Babar is not in the league of Kohli and Rohit. I will also add Gill and Jaiswal to this list because I firmly believe they will retire with far bigger batting legacies than Babar, but India would happily take Babar as competition for the likes of Iyer and KL Rahul.

You were jumping up and down all this time for this post?

 

[Mamoon]

I'm not in the mood to search, and you know full well that I am not lying. As I said this statement is the last thing you can hold onto after I thrashed every single point.

We had this discussion just a few days ago, you know full well what you claimed.

You outright said Indians have many great talents but thay doesn't mean babar isn't in their class.

And I'm not a rat, you made it clear he's not on par with kohli and rohit, but you also claimed that they WOULD HAPPILY accept him into the team.

And lastly even in an unlikely one in a million scenario I'm unable to find evidence, I still wouldn't apologise to you.

I have no respect for someone who tells people to act like adults but spams clown emojis or acts salty with sarcastic comments(which got deleted btw) for someone he doesn't like getting POTW, as if I care about that.

Nor do I have respect for someone who called me and other pakistani's living in Australia as 2nd class citizens, you should apologise.

Also, who called you a rat?

You think too highly of yourself. I admire rats and other rodents. They play an important role in our ecosystem.

 

[Mamoon]

@Dr_Bassim

You didn’t reply. As per you, winning trophies are the only thing that matters.

ICC trophies won in the last 20 years:

Australia: 7
India, England and West Indies: 3

Are you comfortable stating that the West Indies have been on par with India and England as the most successful cricket team of the last 20 years?

Do you look back at the last 20 years of West Indies cricket and view at a successful era?

@Dr_Bassim

Still waiting.

 

[Mamoon]

So according to your logic, the one who is yet to guide his teams to 4 finals is better captain than the one who has played 4 finals in a row and won 1 of them?

Babar guided Pakistan to a T20 World Cup final. That is a bigger achievement than winning 10 PSLs as captain.

 

[mominsaigol]

Also, who called you a rat?

You think too highly of yourself. I admire rats and other rodents. They play an important role in our ecosystem.

Yes I'm sure being one yourself, you have huge admiration for them. Imagine telling me to hold an adult conversation. Pfftt you're a child.

 

[mominsaigol]

So what is wrong with what I said?

Babar is not in the league of Kohli and Rohit. I will also add Gill and Jaiswal to this list because I firmly believe they will retire with far bigger batting legacies than Babar, but India would happily take Babar as competition for the likes of Iyer and KL Rahul.

You were jumping up and down all this time for this post?

Babar isn't even in the same league as Iyer, you're massively jumping.

Then again I'm not suprised considering you're someone who flip flops like a fish and can't stay consistent with any argument.

Whenever you got cornered you start insulting or being pouty about it. Not my fault you can't hold any conversation properly.

 

[PakEngFan]

Also, who called you a rat?

You think too highly of yourself. I admire rats and other rodents. They play an important role in our ecosystem.

Hahah this is brutal.

 

[Mamoon]

Babar isn't even in the same league as Iyer, you're massively jumping.

Then again I'm not suprised considering you're someone who flip flops like a fish and can't stay consistent with any argument.

Whenever you got cornered you start insulting or being pouty about it. Not my fault you can't hold any conversation properly.

Yes. Babar isn’t even in your league. Why stop at Shreyas Iyer.

 

[mominsaigol]

Yes. Babar isn’t even in your league. Why stop at Shreyas Iyer.

And who's in your league exactly? Anyone who captains for peshawar Zalmi?

 

[Dr_Bassim]

You didn’t reply. As per you, winning trophies are the only thing that matters.

ICC trophies won in the last 20 years:

Australia: 7
India, England and West Indies: 3

Are you comfortable stating that the West Indies have been on par with India and England as the most successful cricket team of the last 20 years?

Do you look back at the last 20 years of West Indies cricket and view at a successful era?

West Indies won two tournaments when they were indeed at their peak so that's a moot point.

The only other tournament they have won is a T20 tournament when they had the big hitters and they deserved to win it. At that point in time they were genuinely the most feared T20 team in the world.

However, it is quite rare for the opposite to happen.

To be consistently rated high and not win a single piece of silverware over the years.

South Africa are repeatedly called chokers for the same reason that despite being one of the best they have no real Cups to show that they were indeed the best.

If you ask any Indian they would easily take away 10 of Kohli's centuries maybe even 20 for the World Cup.

I simply can't fathom how you can call Babar a world class batsmen without him having any substance, charisma, personality and on the losing end as a captain for 4 years.

 

[Suleiman]

we needed this. Pakistan cricket discussion had become too boring. This decision opens up at least 10 different story lines and at least 20 different conspiracy theories

 

[Mamoon]

West Indies won two tournaments when they were indeed at their peak so that's a moot point.

The only other tournament they have won is a T20 tournament when they had the big hitters and they deserved to win it. At that point in time they were genuinely the most feared T20 team in the world.

However, it is quite rare for the opposite to happen.

To be consistently rated high and not win a single piece of silverware over the years.

South Africa are repeatedly called chokers for the same reason that despite being one of the best they have no real Cups to show that they were indeed the best.

If you ask any Indian they would easily take away 10 of Kohli's centuries maybe even 20 for the World Cup.

I simply can't fathom how you can call Babar a world class batsmen without him having any substance, charisma, personality and on the losing end as a captain for 4 years.

You are still not answering my question. It is okay, let me rephrase.

The West Indies won two T20 WCs (2012, 2016) and a CT (2004) in the period of 12 years.

No team in the world won more trophies in that period. Their tally of 3 trophies was matched by Australia and India but surpassed by none.

Would you say that the West Indies were the best team in the world in that period and better than G. Smith’s South Africa? Obviously not.

Would you rather be South Africa from 2004-2012 or the West Indies? There is only one correct answer and that is South Africa.

Also, India would happily have Kohli on 30 centuries not 50 centuries if it means winning a trophy, but you are comparing individual accolades with team success.

I’m taking about team success not individual milestones. I object your assessment that trophies are the only thing that matters. That is not true at all.

India will not trade their two Test series win in Australia for an ICC trophy.

India will not trade the longest ever reign as number 1 ranked Asian Test team for an ICC trophy.

India will not trade the iconic 2001 Test series win over Waugh’s Australia and the historic Kolkata Test for the 2003 World Cup final.

ICC trophies matter, they matter a great deal, but they are not the only thing that matter as I have explained above.

 

[topspin]

So Sammy takes the credit for the good tactical decisions but Babar takes the blame for the bad ones?

There's only so much Sammy can do to help Babar, who doesn't have the problem-solving ability and instincts to be able to think quickly and respond to match situations whenever there are momentum shifts in favour of the opposition. You can visibly seen the panic on his face and you can tell from a mile away that he's not capable of regaining control of the contest. This is exactly why he has to rely on individual brilliance. Sammy's post match interview was a clear give away that he doesn't rate Babar's leadership.

Captaincy is one of those things, you're either have it or you don't. You can't make an uneducated individual with a low cricketing IQ become a tactical genius nor can you make a beta male a leader of a team. The bottom line is Babar has nothing going for him as captain.

 

[FearlessRoar]

The captaincy and head coach positions in the Pakistan Cricket Team have become a seesaw.

 

[topspin]

Babar vs Kohli/Rohit and other Indian batsmen who I think are better than him and Babar vs Imad/Amir and his status in Pakistan are two completely different lines of argument.

Unfortunately, people who possess a one-track mind cannot understand the nuances and intricacies of two completely different debates that shouldn’t be juxtaposed in the first place.

Nope you're not fooling anyone here. You've already been caught out from calling Babar selfish to bashing those who describe him as such, all in a period of under six months. What does this go to show?

What tears? We need to understand that Pakistan is a middling team and they have a very small chance of beating the top sides and whoever is the captain will not make any significant difference to the outcomes because the core problem is the lack of talent and skill at our disposal.

If not Babar, who can be the captain? There are no better options and that makes Babar the default choice. Regardless of where Babar stands or doesn’t stand in world cricket, he is untouchable within Pakistan cricket because no one can compete with in terms of performances, consistency and stature.

Delusional people were waxing lyrical about Shan Masood, the most pathetic Test batsman this country has ever seen, but for all his so-called inspiring leadership and tactical brilliance, he still returned from Australia with a 3-0 whitewash on his head and let’s not forget that this was an out of sorts Australian side that dropped a Test to the West Indies.

West Indies drawing the series really showed up and exposed the myth that Masood did a good job as captain. Had he done a good job, Pakistan would not have been whitewashed.

Moreover, let’s not forget how he let Australia off the hook at the MCG when they were 16/4. Had this been on Babar or any other captain’s watch, he would have been criticized to death but perhaps Masood’s English makes him immune to criticism from people who think that speaking fluent English is all that it takes to be a captain.

Pakistan has won ICC tournaments over the last 15 years with previous captains, who each had less than half of the time that Babar had in leading the side. Babar holds the record low in the PSL for losing 9 out of 10 matches in an entire season. Why is Babar always a loser? Even Imad has achieved more as a captain over Babar, who's had countless opportunities to win something, first from his U19 playing days, then during his failed 4 year stint as Pakistan captain and now as the skipper of Peshawar Zalmi.

The hard truth is in the last 15 years of Pakistan cricket, encompassing the PSL, no one other than Misbah has had more opportunities to win a tournament for his side. The only thing worse than the Babar cult is the Misbah cult.

 

[topspin]

Yes anyone else we would have won all of them.

This makes sense for someone who's only watched Pakistan cricket under Babar's leadership.

 

[Rana]

This makes sense for someone who's only watched Pakistan cricket under Babar's leadership.

Excellent point. He’s never watched cricket before Misbah made Babar captain

 

[PakEngFan]

This makes sense for someone who's only watched Pakistan cricket under Babar's leadership.

It also makes sense for someone who hates Babar.