PCB set to reappoint Babar Azam as captain ahead of the T20 World Cup 2024

[Rana]

Sarfraz and YK have entered the chat .

He makes a fair point,

But I don’t agree Pakistani captains haven’t had better campaigns than the 2022 and 2023wc.

Pakistan should have won the 2010 and 2011 World Cup and T20 World Cup under Afridi. They were looking solid until some bottle jobs that cost them massively. They should have won the 2007 World Cup under Malik too.

They had no business winning the 2022 and 2023 World Cups under Babar because the entire team, strategy applied for those teams were flawed. They rightly lost them. In 2022, there were at least 4 teams worthy of playing a final with England more than Pakistan.

There was no hiding place in 2023 with the league format. The nonsense strategies which Babar wanted to apply were rightfully exposed

 

[PakEngFan]

If the rumours are indeed true about PCB's desire to reappoint Babar for the upcoming WT20 and in response have received a demand from him to captain in all 3 x formats, then I hope somehow the PCB can come to their senses. Babar's shameless entitlement is a clear red flag.

Even if he was the best batsman in the world, he's not fit to captain because he's selfish, tactically clueless and a meek individual.

As for Babar's track record of failure as captain:

• 2021 WT20
• 2022 Asia Cup
• 2022 WT20
• 2023 Asia Cup
• 2023 ODI WC
• Lost home series to Australia at home in 2022 and England in 2023

Yes anyone else we would have won all of them.

 

[mominsaigol]

He makes a fair point,

But I don’t agree Pakistani captains haven’t had better campaigns than the 2022 and 2023wc.

Pakistan should have won the 2010 and 2011 World Cup and T20 World Cup under Afridi. They were looking solid until some bottle jobs that cost them massively. They should have won the 2007 World Cup under Malik too.

They had no business winning the 2022 and 2023 World Cups under Babar because the entire team, strategy applied for those teams were flawed. They rightly lost them. In 2022, there were at least 4 teams worthy of playing a final with England more than Pakistan.

There was no hiding place in 2023 with the league format. The nonsense strategies which Babar wanted to apply were rightfully exposed

The point is, claiming Pakistan has done BETTER in ICC cups then any other captain since the past 20 years (20 meaning since 2004)

Is automatically a defunct point when YK and Sarfraz won it but Bobby didn't. Irrespective of any luck, flukes, outside factors involved,

The claim is they've done better under Bobby,

^^ That is his premise, which instantly falls flat if under those captains Pakistan won an ICC cup and under babar they did not, regardless of any external factors imvolved.

its a bold claim to make and he should have either elaborated better or supplemented it to make the point clearer to support his viewpoint.

 

[Mamoon]

Four teams were more worthy of playing the final vs England but yet Babar’s captaincy is the problem.

Switch Babar with Imad and suddenly the narrative changes to Imad helped Pakistan punch above their weight and helped Pakistan play the final ahead of four more worthy teams.

Perception and agendas are everything.

 

[Mamoon]

The point is, claiming Pakistan has done BETTER in ICC cups then any other captain since the past 20 years (20 meaning since 2004)

Is automatically a defunct point when YK and Sarfraz won it but Bobby didn't. Irrespective of any luck, flukes, outside factors involved,

The claim is they've done better under Bobby,

^^ That is his premise, which instantly falls flat if under those captains Pakistan won an ICC cup and under babar they did not, regardless of any external factors imvolved.

its a bold claim to make and he should have either elaborated better or supplemented it to make the point clearer to support his viewpoint.

Fluke factor cannot be discounted because @Rana himself laid the ground rules in his post. Read his post again.

 

[Mamoon]

Brother claiming being WORLD CLASS for Pakistan standards and claiming HE'S WORLD CLASS in general are very seprate things.

He is an average batsmen who statically in a prior era would be a footnote. He's lucky to be playing in an era where franchise has made it easy to stat pad.

If kohli played as many tours as Bobby did against c string he'd have doubled sackings record considering the fact that he scored 5 centuries in a cup alone against top quality sides.

Same goes for Warner and rachin and other players. Sachin's record would become a joke if they played so many tours against c string rather the leagues.

You're disrespecting actual world class players by putting Babar on the same league ams claiming that Indian batsmen are world class but babar would fit into the clique.

With ishan kishan, Gill being able to score 200's, jaiswal in the ranks, kohli and rohit still around, sheryas still playing at no 4, their wouldn't be any space for Bobby in even their 2nd string side.

Don't throw the word WORLD CLASS so randomly. India doesn't even think Kishan is world class and kishan has played knocks not a single one of our batsmen could ever play including fakhar who on his day can hit big.

Not this rubbish again.

If Babar is “average” than what are the 99.99% of batsmen that have played for Pakistan in the last 15 years?

 

[Mamoon]

Younis Khan took 7 months to lose the entire dressing room who ended up taking oaths against him. A decent captain but a terrible leader who couldn’t unify the team and build a cohesive culture of mutual respect.

Babar’s players are deeply loyal to him. This shows his admirable leadership qualities. Babar is a leader.

 

[mominsaigol]

Four teams were more worthy of playing the final vs England but yet Babar’s captaincy is the problem.

Switch Babar with Imad and suddenly the narrative changes to Imad helped Pakistan punch above their weight and helped Pakistan play the final ahead of four more worthy teams.

Perception and agendas are everything.

No one brought up imad, your arguments are getting ridiculous now,

It's not even a comparison between Bobby vs imad anymore, you've over exaggerated everything to the point you're claiming Babar would be accommodated into the Indian team, and are throwing the word World class around like its nothing, and outright disrespecting other captains or other modern greats of the game by holding them to babar standards lol.

Fluke factor cannot be discounted because @Rana himself laid the ground rules in his post. Read his post again.

What Rana claimed isn't relevant to your own premise established on Babar being the absolute best captain when he didn't win anything and those other 2 did. Your fault for not making it clearer.

Next time claim something along the lines of Bobby is the best but unlucky. Their I fixed your premise for you. You may thank me later or continue to be pouty, upset and ungrateful towards me like you always are towards me, makes no difference to me.

 

[mominsaigol]

Not this rubbish again.

If Babar is “average” than what are the 99.99% of batsmen that have played for Pakistan in the last 15 years?

Again this derails it. You're claim was holding Babar to a standard of Indian batsmen and other modern greats. It wasn't even about Pakistani batsmen anymore.

You held him in the caliber of actual modern greats. I don't think any pakistani batsmen is world class, I've never claimed that. The only batsmen who I think is world class was either zaheer abass or inzi, but I didn't definitively claim those cause I started watching cricket since 2011, I never watched them play so I can't verify.

But no pakistani batsmen from 2011 till 2024 is world class. Babar doesn't escape that mould. He's bang average compared to actual modern greats.

 

[Rana]

Yes anyone else we would have won all of them.

Maybe this is true.

What is also true is that Babar lost them all.

 

[Mamoon]

Again this derails it. You're claim was holding Babar to a standard of Indian batsmen and other modern greats. It wasn't even about Pakistani batsmen anymore.

You held him in the caliber of actual modern greats. I don't think any pakistani batsmen is world class, I've never claimed that. The only batsmen who I think is world class was either zaheer abass or inzi, but I didn't definitively claim those cause I started watching cricket since 2011, I never watched them play so I can't verify.

But no pakistani batsmen from 2011 till 2024 is world class. Babar doesn't escape that mould. He's bang average compared to actual modern greats.

You didn’t answer my question.

I repeat: if you are using the word “average” to describe Babar, what word would you use to describe the following batsmen:

Imam, Masood, Abdullah, Hafeez, Shehzad, Umar Akmal, Manzoor, Amin, Maqsood, Taufeeq, Farhat, Hameed, Faisal Iqbal, Asim Kamal.

These are just some names off the top of my head. I can obviously expand this list if I think about it.

Babar is miles better than all these batsmen - what would you call them if Babar is “average”?

 

[mominsaigol]

You didn’t answer my question.

I repeat: if you are using the word “average” to describe Babar, what word would you use to describe the following batsmen:

Imam, Masood, Abdullah, Hafeez, Shehzad, Umar Akmal, Manzoor, Amin, Maqsood, Taufeeq, Farhat, Hameed, Faisal Iqbal, Asim Kamal.

These are just some names off the top of my head. I can obviously expand this list if I think about it.

Babar is miles better than all these batsmen - what would you call them if Babar is “average”?

I 100% answered your question, you didn't answer mine lol.

You're either blind or deliberately ignoring.

I outright claimed no batsmen since 2011 till 2024 is world class, their all in the AVERAGE category if you're holding then to standards of actual WORLD class batsmen like you've previously done.

Babar does not escape the mould. Also the people you mentioned are below average, weird how you're taking the cream of the crop below average cricketers. Very ratty move . Nice try but try again.

 

[160KPH]

I 100% answered your question, you didn't answer mine lol.

You're either blind or deliberately ignoring.

I outright claimed no batsmen since 2011 till 2024 is world class, their all in the AVERAGE category if you're holding then to standards of actual WORLD class batsmen like you've previously done.

Babar does not escape the mould. Also the people you mentioned are below average, weird how you're taking the cream of the crop below average cricketers. Very ratty move . Nice try but try again.

Maybe it’d be best if you both just defined what you meant by world class? Seems that you may both just have different definitions.

 

[PakEngFan]

Maybe this is true.

What is also true is that Babar lost them all.

Yes specially if Asif Ali was the captain.

 

[Usman Chadda]

According to unconfirmed reports, Shaheen is ready to step down.

Babar’s reluctance to only be a white-ball captain is the only hold up right now.

 

[RidiculousMan]

Younis Khan took 7 months to lose the entire dressing room who ended up taking oaths against him. A decent captain but a terrible leader who couldn’t unify the team and build a cohesive culture of mutual respect.

Babar’s players are deeply loyal to him. This shows his admirable leadership qualities. Babar is a leader.

I can't help but think because of Babar's work ethic and dedication to the game. Every single player looks upto him. He's the standard. That in itself is leading from the front.

Although it's a separate discussion of how tactically aware and strategically good he is as a captain.

 

[160KPH]

I can't help but think because of Babar's work ethic and dedication to the game. Every single player looks upto him. He's the standard. That in itself is leading from the front.

Although it's a separate discussion of how tactically aware and strategically good he is as a captain.

Yeah if you look at most of our up and coming batsmen, they all massively look up to Babar Azam and have spoken about it in interviews.

Saim Ayub and Harris are two examples.

 

[mominsaigol]

Maybe it’d be best if you both just defined what you meant by world class? Seems that you may both just have different definitions.

The og debate which is a continuation of this one, if that he held Babar to the same standards as Indian batsmen and called him world class

Deapite originally claiming people like Conway are superior and Babar is basically a bootleg Amla, he's switched to Bobby being world class, not on the level of kohli but someone who casually makes the Indian team.

I outright claimed why that's false, but he as usual derails it 24/7 to include pakistani batsmen deapite that never being the point

Mamoon will always derail or try to establish a new premise when he gets cornered, he did this in pur 2019 and 2023 Pakistan team debate where he got cornered and couldn't come up with an actual comparison, so he built some narrative on 2018 team getting butchered, despite many players in 2018 team like rizwan, abid Ali not even making it to the 2019 squad, so moot point.

So he's derailing it again by bringing in Pakistani batsmen and also selectively highlight proper failures rather, so he's even failing at his own derailment.

Regardless the og point is that babar isn't world class for Indian standards like he claimed. He would not be a front runner in their team, Kishan can score 200's and make big totals and is flexible to bat at any position, Jaiswal, Gill, Rohit, Kohli, Sheryas, Sanju, rahul, kishan literally slam the door shut on babar ever making it the Indian 11.

Only position he can bat in would be no 6 or no 7, and they wouldn't let an anchorer bat their, At no 6 they value oandya or sky more since they need a finisher and not an accumulator.

Jadeja at no 7 is an allrounder and provides value with the ball.

In no Universe is babar world class compared to Indian batsmen and makes it into their squad. Max he gets to bat at no 4 for a c string Indian side.

 

[mominsaigol]

The og debate which is a continuation of this one, if that he held Babar to the same standards as Indian batsmen and called him world class

Deapite originally claiming people like Conway are superior and Babar is basically a bootleg Amla, he's switched to Bobby being world class, not on the level of kohli but someone who casually makes the Indian team.

I outright claimed why that's false, but he as usual derails it 24/7 to include pakistani batsmen deapite that never being the point

Mamoon will always derail or try to establish a new premise when he gets cornered, he did this in pur 2019 and 2023 Pakistan team debate where he got cornered and couldn't come up with an actual comparison, so he built some narrative on 2018 team getting butchered, despite many players in 2018 team like rizwan, abid Ali not even making it to the 2019 squad, so moot point.

So he's derailing it again by bringing in Pakistani batsmen and also selectively highlight proper failures rather, so he's even failing at his own derailment.

Regardless the og point is that babar isn't world class for Indian standards like he claimed. He would not be a front runner in their team, Kishan can score 200's and make big totals and is flexible to bat at any position, Jaiswal, Gill, Rohit, Kohli, Sheryas, Sanju, rahul, kishan literally slam the door shut on babar ever making it the Indian 11.

Only position he can bat in would be no 6 or no 7, and they wouldn't let an anchorer bat their, At no 6 they value oandya or sky more since they need a finisher and not an accumulator.

Jadeja at no 7 is an allrounder and provides value with the ball.

In no Universe is babar world class compared to Indian batsmen and makes it into their squad. Max he gets to bat at no 4 for a c string Indian side.

BTW @topspin can probably show all the evidence of the timed he derailed.

He also derailed the thread when 2021 loss against Australia was brought up.

Babar's 39 of 34 cost us, Fakhar shpuld have been sent to open as he struck at 171. Hadan Ali, Rauf and hafeez's brilliant economy of 10, 11 and 13 cost as well so did hasan alias drop catch.

Imad shpuld have done better but 8.33 economy was fine and Bobby shpuld have given imad one more over rather then give hasan Ali who was getting bashed left and right.

I explained why we lost in a clear and coinsence fashion because he was prasing babar over the moon.

He derailed it again by taking about how imad got smashed and ignoring the other bowlers and even praised babar's innings, even though every analyst said that babar ON THAT DAY hindered falhar and rizwan.

And unlike mamoon I'm not biased. I don't like rizwam but rizwan played that day, so did fakhar and so did shadab. Babar's innings + Hasan ali + Rauf + Shaheen being run machines to matter wade was the biggest cause of the defeat.

Yet he derails it to act as if imad was the one who pulled a Mohammad hafeez. I saw that match multiple times and remember every moment lol.

@160KPH

 

[Mamoon]

I 100% answered your question, you didn't answer mine lol.

You're either blind or deliberately ignoring.

I outright claimed no batsmen since 2011 till 2024 is world class, their all in the AVERAGE category if you're holding then to standards of actual WORLD class batsmen like you've previously done.

Babar does not escape the mould. Also the people you mentioned are below average, weird how you're taking the cream of the crop below average cricketers. Very ratty move . Nice try but try again.

So you are grouping all those batsmen that I mentioned in the same category as Babar?

 

[Mamoon]

I can't help but think because of Babar's work ethic and dedication to the game. Every single player looks upto him. He's the standard. That in itself is leading from the front.

Although it's a separate discussion of how tactically aware and strategically good he is as a captain.

Yes and in addition, he is also a decent individual with excellent behavior. It is impossible to not admire him as a person and as a cricketer.

Younis was a great player too but his behavior was aggressive and unpredictable and he had a massive ego. It is not surprising that the players revolted against him.

 

[mominsaigol]

So you are grouping all those batsmen that I mentioned in the same category as Babar?

A straw man fallacy (sometimes written as strawman) is the informal fallacy of refuting an argument different from the one actually under discussion, while not recognizing or acknowledging the distinction

^^ First learn this fundamental fact.

secondly to answer your question while mine remains unanswered, the players you mentioned and specifically listed are below par for even pakistani standards.

Comparing them to the World or to Indian batsmen like you've done would be a joke.

However babar being superior to failures like Umar akmal, does not shove his status to world class or put him on the tier of Indian batsmen like you proclaimed.

 

[Mamoon]

Let me explain some debate fundamentals to you.

A straw man fallacy (sometimes written as strawman) is the informal fallacy of refuting an argument different from the one actually under discussion, while not recognizing or acknowledging the distinction

^^ First learn this fundamental fact.

secondly to answer your question while mine remains unanswered, the players you mentioned and specifically listed are below par for even pakistani standards.

Comparing them to the World or to Indian batsmen like you've done would be a joke.

However babar being superior to failures like Umar akmal, does not shove his status to world class or put him on the tier of Indian batsmen like you proclaimed.

You fumbled by calling Babar “average” when he is clearly much better than “average” and now you are digging to defend and justify your position.

 

[Shafi]

According to latest report Babar wants 2 years captaincy in all formats.

 

[RidiculousMan]

According to latest report Babar wants 2 years captaincy in all formats.

Chairman himself can't guarantee 6 months for his position. Lol

 

[Kianig89]

Babar wants all format captaincy hold over team selections and veto power over coaches and no player power

 

[Ahmed216]

Yes anyone else we would have won all of them.

At least a couple if Asif Ali was captain and imad the deputy

 

[Shafi]

Sounds like Naqvi is mirror of Zaka. Both are incompetent and there to make money know nothing but try to please who has large fans.

 

[mominsaigol]

You fumbled by calling Babar “average” when he is clearly much better than “average” and now you are digging to defend and justify your position.

I never fumbled, I maintained a single viewpoint on him being average.

You can't defend your position, I asked you to defend your original premise, how is babar world class compared to Indian batsmen? How is he on the a similar league to them for which you proclaimed so confidently.

This whole shehzad nonsense is an objective strawman by you.

Secondly you're clearly committing a half truth fallacy. Now please don't make me explain what a half truth fallacy is, actually I'll have to explain it since you don't understand debating terms.

A half truth fallacy is when you present biased information into a debate to justify a viewpoint without presenting other evidence.

You deliberately presented failure batsmen who are not considered average but are considered failures without bringing up batsmen such as fakhar which would end up becoming a more logical argument.

In order to be World class in cricket,

You need to be able to play innings that fakhar or Kishan can but the key difference is you have to be able to do it Consistently.

its why fakhar and kishan arent world class cause their inconsitent batsmen, whereas someone like Warner has played fakhar zaman esc innings aagainst top sides and especially sodes like Pakistan Extremely consistently.

Babar cant ever come close to ever playing an innings like fakhar can, let alone do it consistently like rachin, Warner, quinton de kock etc.

So do not derail again. Just be humble and concede. You've run out of points anyway.

 

[Shafi]

Babar wants all format captaincy hold over team selections and veto power over coaches and no player power

Both Amir and Imad should announce retirement and Usman should go back to UAE to save career. Under Babar Usman either get selected and warm the bench or not get selected. Same Hasan Ali, Nawaz will play.

 

[Kianig89]

Babar Azam is a world class batsman " Naseer Hussain, Harsha Bhogle, Ian Bishop" all echo the same sentiment not sure why people are locking horns on it surely the opinion of ex cricketers hold more worth than arm chair warriors

 

[mominsaigol]

Babar Azam is a world class batsman " Naseer Hussain, Harsha Bhogle, Ian Bishop" all echo the same sentiment not sure why people are locking horns on it surely the opinion of ex cricketers hold more worth than arm chair warriors

No it doesn't. Theirs a reason why it's still an opinion, it's as irrelevant as ex cricketers like anil kumble claiming that rizwan in the world cup was top 3 batsmen in the world despite many bats like maxwell, Warner, Travis head, rohit, sheryas, kohli, quinton, rachin, fakhar even lol, all outperformed him by miles.

His 131 followed by 2 scores of 40 + followed by other failures does not put him in the same tier as quinton, kohli or rachin who smacked 3, 4 and 5 centuries respectively or Travis head smacking 2 centuries especially one crucial knock in the final.

Facts and evidence matter more. Results in a tournament where full sides play will always matter more then ex cricketers.

Various ex cricketers disagree with babar being no 1 btw. With multiple ex cricketers such as misbah pointing out that babar isn't world class and his standing against C string sides don't matter, check his standings against top string sides and see where he stands.

 

[Kianig89]

Both Amir and Imad should announce retirement and Usman should go back to UAE to save career. Under Babar Usman either get selected and warm the bench or not get selected. Same Hasan Ali, Nawaz will play.

Babar has been unlucky 2021 Wt20 Hassan Ali drops Wade, Babar Robbed off a trophy, 2022 WT20 SSA gets injured Babar Robbed off a trophy, 2023WC Babar is let down by team vs AfG and Robbed off from trophy

 

[Ahmed216]

Babar Azam is a world class batsman " Naseer Hussain, Harsha Bhogle, Ian Bishop" all echo the same sentiment not sure why people are locking horns on it surely the opinion of ex cricketers hold more worth than arm chair warriors

Virat Kohli, Pointing, Andy flower and more.

 

[Mamoon]

I never fumbled, I maintained a single viewpoint on him being average.

You can't defend your position, I asked you to defend your original premise, how is babar world class compared to Indian batsmen? How is he on the a similar league to them for which you proclaimed so confidently.

This whole shehzad nonsense is an objective strawman by you.

Secondly you're clearly committing a half truth fallacy. Now please don't make me explain what a half truth fallacy is, actually I'll have to explain it since you don't understand debating terms.

A half truth fallacy is when you present biased information into a debate to justify a viewpoint without presenting other evidence.

You deliberately presented failure batsmen who are not considered average but are considered failures without bringing up batsmen such as fakhar which would end up becoming a more logical argument.

In order to be World class in cricket,

You need to be able to play innings that fakhar or Kishan can but the key difference is you have to be able to do it Consistently.

its why fakhar and kishan arent world class cause their inconsitent batsmen, whereas someone like Warner has played fakhar zaman esc innings aagainst top sides and especially sodes like Pakistan Extremely consistently.

Babar cant ever come close to ever playing an innings like fakhar can, let alone do it consistently like rachin, Warner, quinton de kock etc.

So do not derail again. Just be humble and concede. You've run out of points anyway.

Asking me to prove that Babar is world class is like asking if the sun rises in the east.

His record as an all format speaks for itself.

How Babar compares to some other world class batsmen in contemporary cricket and some all-time greats is a completely different line of debate and I have absolutely no hesitating in admitting that Babar is not in the same league as players like Kohli and Sharma or upcoming Indian players like Jaiswal.

However, that doesn’t mean that Babar is just another average batsmen. He is not. That is a ridiculously ignorant position to hold but one you can expect from someone who thinks that Imad’s 25 in 21 in the CT final was a blockbuster innings and took the game away from India.

Also, using bold and italic doesn’t make your feeble argument any intelligent.

Pakistani fans are the most intellectually bankrupt fans in the game who harbor very poor understanding of cricket. Opinions such as above is the reason why Pakistani fans carry this reputation.

A Pakistani fan calling Babar just an average batsman and not world class is the type of idiocy that makes Pakistani cricket fans a laughing stock.

Babar is too good to play for such an ignorant and deluded cricket nation.

 

[Mamoon]

Both Amir and Imad should announce retirement and Usman should go back to UAE to save career. Under Babar Usman either get selected and warm the bench or not get selected. Same Hasan Ali, Nawaz will play.

If Usman is such a coward that he doesn’t want to fight for his place in the team and doesn’t want competition, he is more than welcome to go back to the UAE.

As far as Amir and Imad are concerned, who cares about two expired and retired cricketers who have made it clear that playing for Pakistan is not a priority for them?

 

[Shafi]

If Usman is such a coward that he doesn’t want to fight for his place in the team and doesn’t want competition, he is more than welcome to go back to the UAE.

As far as Amir and Imad are concerned, who cares about two expired and retired cricketers who have made it clear that playing for Pakistan is not a priority for them?

Amir is far better than Run machine Hasan and Haris, Imad is well ahead of Usama and Nawaz. Babar is a dictator captain and will take or drop or play whom he wants. Win or loss doesn't matter. PCB is wasting money on coaches. With this attitude coaches will just there for show with no input. It will give bad reputation on Gary or Gillepse.

 

[Usman Chadda]

If Usman is such a coward that he doesn’t want to fight for his place in the team and doesn’t want competition, he is more than welcome to go back to the UAE.

As far as Amir and Imad are concerned, who cares about two expired and retired cricketers who have made it clear that playing for Pakistan is not a priority for them?

Imad Wasim avoiding fitness tests on the basis of some mysterious injury has escaped the notice of most fans here.

The agenda based support is nauseating.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

That’s fine, cups are overrated anyway. Consistent performances over a long period and sustaining high ranking shows the real quality of a team.

India haven’t won a cup in the last 10 years but this period has still been phenomenal for India. In comparison, Pakistan has won a cup more recently than India but every Pakistani fan would swap the last 10 years with India because India’s overall consistency and performances across formats have been a thousand times better than Pakistan.

Since 2000, the West Indies have won 3 cups. Only Australia and India have won more cups in this period. England have also won 3.

However, no one would look at this period and consider the West Indies as the most successful cricket team after Australia and India and on par with England.

The West Indies have been borderline minnows in spite of winning cups because they lack consistency over a period of time.

For example, South Africa with 0 cups have been 100x better than West Indies with 3 cups.

That's so false its even not funny.

The entire reason you don't rate Amla is his bilateral performances and lack of tournament performances.

The entire reason Australia is highly rated is because they win Cups.

Not JAMODI's.

Suddenly even the Cups have no value and bilaterals are best over period because Babar is flavor of the month.

You seem to be losing it for such a respected poster.

 

[IMMY69]

No it doesn't. Theirs a reason why it's still an opinion, it's as irrelevant as ex cricketers like anil kumble claiming that rizwan in the world cup was top 3 batsmen in the world despite many bats like maxwell, Warner, Travis head, rohit, sheryas, kohli, quinton, rachin, fakhar even lol, all outperformed him by miles.

His 131 followed by 2 scores of 40 + followed by other failures does not put him in the same tier as quinton, kohli or rachin who smacked 3, 4 and 5 centuries respectively or Travis head smacking 2 centuries especially one crucial knock in the final.

Facts and evidence matter more. Results in a tournament where full sides play will always matter more then ex cricketers.

Various ex cricketers disagree with babar being no 1 btw. With multiple ex cricketers such as misbah pointing out that babar isn't world class and his standing against C string sides don't matter, check his standings against top string sides and see where he stands.

If you have played a decent level of cricket you would know that Babar Azam is an absolutely class batsman, people would pay just to watch him bat.

Anything you say to the contrary just tells me you don't know what you're talking about...

(Please don't reply with a long essay...)

 

[mominsaigol]

Asking me to prove that Babar is world class is like asking if the sun rises in the east.

You have to bonkers and delusional beyond belief to argue otherwise. His record as an all format speaks for itself.

How Babar compares to some other world class batsmen in contemporary cricket and some all-time greats is a completely different line of debate and I have absolutely no hesitating in admitting that Babar is not in the same league as players like Kohli and Sharma or upcoming Indian players like Jaiswal.

However, that doesn’t mean that Babar is just another average batsmen. He is not. That is a ridiculously ignorant position to hold but one you can expect from someone who thinks that Imad’s 25 in 21 in the CT final was a blockbuster innings and took the game away from India.

Also, using bold and italic doesn’t make your feeble argument any intelligent.

Pakistani fans are the most intellectually bankrupt fans in the game who harbor very poor understanding of cricket. Opinions such as above is the reason why Pakistani fans carry this reputation.

A Pakistani fan calling Babar just an average batsman and not world class is the type of idiocy that makes Pakistani cricket fans a laughing stock.

Fans like you deserve the third rate batsmen that have been playing for Pakistan over the last 20 years. Babar is too good to play for such an ignorant and deluded cricket nation.

Asking me to prove that Babar is world class is like asking if the sun rises in the east.

Horrible Analogy as one is an undisputed fact and the other is an opinion that can be disputed.

I'm asking you to defend your opinion and validated it, if you can't do so, not my fault.

You have to bonkers and delusional beyond belief to argue otherwise. His record as an all format speaks for itself.

First of all, for someone who claims that hes an adult, you cant seem to keep childish insults out of it. Again you claiming the words you need to bonkers and delusional is your opinion, its not backed by anything beyond your emotional outbursts. I'm asking you to show proof of said record. His record against c string sides doesn't matter.
The whole debate began with you answering what world class entails, a term you loosely throw around without understanding what average or below average entails.

How Babar compares to some other world class batsmen in contemporary cricket and some all-time greats is a completely different line of debate and I have absolutely no hesitating in admitting that Babar is not in the same league as players like Kohli and Sharma or upcoming Indian players like Jaiswal.

Your original claim was that hes in the same caliber that they are, you admitted hes inferior but that Any Indian team would view him as world class, which again is a term you've loosely thrown around. I've already given you a plethora of evidence for why it's not the case as well as a full explanation as to why Babar does not fall into a category if world class, a point which you ignored once again, so concession accepted.

However, that doesn’t mean that Babar is just another average batsmen. He is not. That is a ridiculously ignorant position to hold but one you can expect from someone who thinks that Imad’s 25 in 21 in the CT final was a blockbuster innings and took the game away from India.

Another Strawman and a personal attack. Imad has zero relevancein any of this discussion so do not derail, I've already told you ik when you try to derail desperately, nice try. I asked you to justify your opinion, which you have not been able to. You viewing that he's an top class batsmen doesn't make it true, nor does you sun setting analogy make sense.

Go on and ask me to prove how someone like Warner is world class and I'll prove it easily, Im asking you to prove multiple consistent notable innings, you havent done so, again key word consistently notable.

Also, using bold and italic doesn’t make your feeble argument any intelligent.

Oh ik, im doing it to irritate you .

Pakistani fans are the most intellectually bankrupt fans in the game who harbor very poor understanding of cricket. Opinions such as above is the reason why Pakistani fans carry this reputation.

Another personal attack and again another irrelevant opinion, firstly im not a pakistani fan I've made that clear, and NEITHER are you a few months back lol, A true pakistani fan doesn't swip swop on a whim, nor do they hate in certain players like imad or Amir they support the team through the end.

I'm a true aussie fan as I have never critised my team.

Secondly your own opinions on what a pakistani fan is or isn't, is not an objective word of God. Nobody cares about your opinion bro, they want facts and evidence. Also using the word FEEBLE is funny lol.


A Pakistani fan calling Babar just an average batsman and not world class is the type of idiocy that makes Pakistani cricket fans a laughing stock.

How many times must i make everything clear that im not a Pakistani fan. I've made it abduantaly clear that I do not support the team, max I can offer is that my prayer is with then for the sake of Pakistan and other loyal fans but I have made it clear I don't support the team at all, and again neither do you, a True pakistani fan does not complain about certain people getting selected lol, thy also value other people's opinions.

Fans like you deserve the third rate batsmen that have been playing for Pakistan over the last 20 years. Babar is too good to play for such an ignorant and deluded cricket nation.

For the 3rd time, i am not a fan of Pakistan cricket, i havent been since the end of 2019. Ive made it abdunatly clear ill mever support a non gelled team such as this.

Secondly this your 4th personal attack in this comment. Dont ever tell me again that you wish to have adukt conversations when you make such comments.

As I said earlier you've run out of points. Concede, be humble and control yourself. No one cares about your anger tantrums.

 

[PakEngFan]

If you have played a decent level of cricket you would know that Babar Azam is an absolutely class batsman, people would pay just to watch him bat.

Anything you say to the contrary just tells me you don't know what you're talking about...

(Please don't reply with a long essay...)

Hahah. His long essay will include a lot of irrelevant topics. He thinks Usman Khan should replace rizwan in all formats lol.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

If you have played a decent level of cricket you would know that Babar Azam is an absolutely class batsman, people would pay just to watch him bat.

Anything you say to the contrary just tells me you don't know what you're talking about...

(Please don't reply with a long essay...)

That's very untrue also.

Babar is an average batsmen and the batsmen below him are even worse in Pakistan so he seems like a king.

I won't write long essay but you can't find one other extraordinary performance in tournaments besides NZ over 10 years to prove this.

The payment analogy is false. People used to pay to watch Afridi bat and Afridi was mediocre as well. They paid because they hoped Afridi could win the game. With Babar you know it's not gonna happen even if he hits 150.

 

[PakEngFan]

That's very untrue also.

Babar is an average batsmen and the batsmen below him are even worse in Pakistan so he seems like a king.

I won't write long essay but you can't find one other extraordinary performance in tournaments besides NZ over 10 years to prove this.

The payment analogy is false. People used to pay to watch Afridi bat and Afridi was mediocre as well. They paid because they hoped Afridi could win the game. With Babar you know it's not gonna happen even if he hits 150.

You said he's got centuries against Nepal and uganda could you please provide us them centuries?

 

[Ahmed216]

Criticising Babar is like criticising Sachin for all the Indian defeats during the 90's

 

[IMMY69]

That's very untrue also.

Babar is an average batsmen and the batsmen below him are even worse in Pakistan so he seems like a king.

I won't write long essay but you can't find one other extraordinary performance in tournaments besides NZ over 10 years to prove this.

The payment analogy is false. People used to pay to watch Afridi bat and Afridi was mediocre as well. They paid because they hoped Afridi could win the game. With Babar you know it's not gonna happen even if he hits 150.

What a load of dross

 

[Usman Chadda]

That's very untrue also.

Babar is an average batsmen and the batsmen below him are even worse in Pakistan so he seems like a king.

I won't write long essay but you can't find one other extraordinary performance in tournaments besides NZ over 10 years to prove this.

The payment analogy is false. People used to pay to watch Afridi bat and Afridi was mediocre as well. They paid because they hoped Afridi could win the game. With Babar you know it's not gonna happen even if he hits 150.

The issue is this logic falls flat when you have posts celebrating Imad Wasim’s return, who is the definition of below average.

You don’t have any credibility if you are lambasting Babar yet singing praises of a failed cricketer like Imad Wasim.

 

[IMMY69]

Criticising Babar is like criticising Sachin for all the Indian defeats during the 90's

I'm so sick of these four of five posters who clearly have an agenda against Babar.

Would I make him captain again? Honestly I wouldn't as I think he's an inept tactician.

But to call him average is just ludicrous.

 

[mominsaigol]

If you have played a decent level of cricket you would know that Babar Azam is an absolutely class batsman, people would pay just to watch him bat.

Anything you say to the contrary just tells me you don't know what you're talking about...

(Please don't reply with a long essay...)

@dr bassim already answered your question.

So theirs no need. But you answering What a load of dross isnt a counter argument btw.

 

[mominsaigol]

Hahah. His long essay will include a lot of irrelevant topics. He thinks Usman Khan should replace rizwan in all formats lol.

Usman Khan and rizwan aren't relevant In this discussion but yes, I'd say he should. I'll 100% back that claim.

The problem is you can't back it. Your argument is nothing more then a personal opinion of Oh ik he shall fail in international, muhahaha, Rizzu zindabad.

Not a valid argument.

 

[160KPH]

Babar is clearly a great batsmen and that’s why when he falls short of our very high expectations of him we are disappointed. His class is acknowledged not just by Pakistani fans but by his peers and fellow players as well as retired players, coaches, and analysts.

If we had a few more players that were of Babar’s class then we would be a very strong cricket team. He’s significantly stronger than any other Pakistan batsmen in LOI, including people we idolize like Inzamam. He’s still not our greatest Test bat, but he has plenty of time to reach that as well since he has 5-6 years of prime batting left.

Yes, he’s not on the level of Virat Kohli, ABD, etc but those guys are generational level players and not just world class but competitors in the all time greats discussion.

 

[mominsaigol]

The issue is this logic falls flat when you have posts celebrating Imad Wasim’s return, who is the definition of below average.

You don’t have any credibility if you are lambasting Babar yet singing praises of a failed cricketer like Imad Wasim.

Brother, Just like Mamoon I'd recommend not to derail and talk about imad waseem and present that as a counter argument.

Stick to discussing the topics at hand. His logic does not fall flat.

Him claiming imad is vital and Babar is average are mutually exclusive points. Their entirely 2 different lines of logic.

If his logic falls flat for imad waseem it doesn't fall flat for Babar. Their not the same lines of thinking.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

You said he's got centuries against Nepal and uganda could you please provide us them centuries?

Babar Azam put up a masterclass in ODI batting, scoring 151 off 131 balls, to help Pakistan thump Nepal by 238 runs in the opening match of the 2023 Asia Cup.

Babar Azam scores 158 vs England (bowlers being Saqib Mahmood, Lewis Gregory, Brydon Carse and Gregory Overton.) Good knock but sadly overshadowed by Lewis Gregory and James Vince as Pakistan lost the match.

Babar Azam has 19 international centuries out of which 5 are vs WI, 3 vs SL, 2 vs Zimbabwe (one resulted in a tied match) 1 vs Nepal which led to his winning centuries.

Both his centuries vs England have been in losing causes.

His two centuries vs NZ are valuable.

His one vs South Africa is good.

2 of his centuries vs Australia resulted in wins. One of them was chasing 210 runs vs the likes of Behrendoff, Nathan Ellis and he hit 105 off 115 balls. The other century vs Australia vs valuable as Pakistan chased 349, however the bowlers were like Abbot and Ellis again.

The one other century against Australia needs not to be discussed as we all know it was the height of selfishness.

60 percent of Babar's centuries have come against West Indies, Sri Lanka, Zimbabwe and Nepal.

40 percent of Babar's centuries have come against good teams like Australia, England, NZ and South Africa. Out of those 3 of them have resulted in losses.

In short he has 5 centuries against top teams that have resulted in wins.

Out of those 5 centuries 2 vs Australia had a bowling attack of Ellis, Behrendoff, and Abbot.

3 out of 19 centuries of Babar Azam have come against top class attacks that have resulted in wins.

And he is world class?

Please give me a break.

 

[160KPH]

You said he's got centuries against Nepal and uganda could you please provide us them centuries?

The idea that Babar Azam is a minnow basher is complete nonsense. The best format to look at this would be Test cricket since you almost always play the other teams best sides.

His career averages against all teams: 45.85
His career average against SENA: 45.7

His numbers against SENA are almost the exact same as his career numbers. In fact the reason his numbers aren’t higher is because he’s missed out on minnow bashing when he had the chance. His worst performance in Test was against Zimbabwe where he only scored 2 runs in 2 matches. The opposite of minnow bashing.

 

[160KPH]

The reason why it’s not really worth having the argument anymore is because it’s already been proven and acknowledged by some of the best players of our era and some of the best retired cricketers. On top of that, he’s the biggest name in Pakistan cricket and the biggest Pakistani cricketer in the world by far.

What’s the point of convincing a couple of people who hate on him online when the entire world already recognizes how good Babar is.

 

[FearlessRoar]

Shaheen Shah Afridi Upset With Pakistan Cricket Board's Behaviour, Looking To Step Down

Pakistan pacer Shaheen Shah Afridi is looking to quit T20 captaincy, if reports are to be believed. According to a report in PTI, a well-informed source close to him said that the bowler was upset that not even once the Pakistan Cricket Board Chairman Mohsin Naqvi or the national selectors have spoken to him about their future plans as far as the leadership or appointment of coaches is concerned.

There have been reports that the board is looking to remove Shaheen from the post and bring back Babar Azam, with less than three months to go for the T20 World Cup.

Babar, on his part, hasn't yet accepted the offer from the board. The decision to remove him as captain of all formats after failing to qualify for the knockouts has hurt him and he has proposed that he will return as captain, if it is for all three formats.

"Shaheen is rightly upset as being the national T20 captain he expected that even if the board/selectors wanted to remove him they have the decency to also inform him for the reasons behind this and keep him in the loop about everything," the source told PTI.

According to the source, Shaheen was disappointed that he wasn't kept in the loop as the board chief discussed with the national selectors and Babar this week to discuss the T20 World Cup.

"Shaheen believes that if the Board wants to remove him they should have informed him by now as he is even willing to step down himself. In fact now he has been advised by some of his close ones to do this and step away from all the chaos and confusion being caused by the Board," the source said.

Shaheen was named T20 skipper after the 2023 ODI World Cup when Zaka Ashraf was heading the board. His appointment was made on the basis of his ability to lead the Lahore Qalandars in the Pakistan Super League to two consecutive titles.

But after being named skipper, Shaheen lost the T20 series in New Zealand 1-4 and could not repeat his magic with the Qalandars as they finished at the bottom of the table this season.

Shaheen is expected to clearly speak with other senior players including Babar, Mohammad Rizwan, Shadab Khan and Fakhar Zaman on the leadership problem and then make a final call himself.

Pakistan play New Zealand in another T201 series beginning April 18 and it needs to be seen if Shaheen steps down before that.

"Some members of the selection committee now feel the best thing is to let Shaheen Shah Afridi continue as captain for the home T20 series against New Zealand in April and give him a chance to prove his credentials," one well-informed source told PTI.

Shaheen Shah Afridi Upset With Pakistan Cricket Board's Behaviour, Looking To Step Down

A well-informed source close to Shaheen Shah Afridi said that the bowler was upset that not even once the Pakistan Cricket Board Chairman Mohsin Naqvi or the national selectors have spoken to him about their plans as far as the captaincy or appointment of coaches is concerned, as discontentment...

www.timesnownews.com

 

[mominsaigol]

Babar is clearly a great batsmen and that’s why when he falls short of our very high expectations of him we are disappointed. His class is acknowledged not just by Pakistani fans but by his peers and fellow players as well as retired players, coaches, and analysts.

If we had a few more players that were of Babar’s class then we would be a very strong cricket team. He’s significantly stronger than any other Pakistan batsmen in LOI, including people we idolize like Inzamam. He’s still not our greatest Test bat, but he has plenty of time to reach that as well since he has 5-6 years of prime batting left.

Yes, he’s not on the level of Virat Kohli, ABD, etc but those guys are generational level players and not just world class but competitors in the all time greats discussion.

That's fine, And finally a logical poster. @160KPH you and I disagree alot but you and major I respect for actually bringing arguments and keeping personal insults out of it, rather then responding mostly with

No I think Babar is great, don't critise otherwise you a hater .

Regardless the topic isn't about whether he's class or not. I already explained it, the og topic was about Bobby being in the league of Indian batsmen which I debunked from every other angle.

Secondly world class cannot just be throw around, not can ONCE IN A GENERATIONAL TALENT LOL.

In order to be world class you need to play fakhar or kishan like innings but on a CONSISTENT BASIS which kohli, rachin, Warner, can do and ab could easily do in his prime.

The reason fakhar and kishan aren't world class is due to their inconsistency.

As for once in a generation, Kindly reserve that for viv, kohli, Tendulkar, pointing etc, I wouldn't even consider Warner or maxwell in thay class lol.

Babar has never played an ATG like innings that falhar and kishan have, let alone play them consistently like Warner.

So you can't claim he's world class, If you compare him to batsmen AROUND THE WORLD, he is extremely extremely average in comparison.

These arguments are getting ridiculous now, you guys have no idea you're insulting the likes of Warner, de villers etc by putting babar's name in front of them lmao.

And no that 101, or that 68 is not an ATG innings or a world class innings. Its a good innings but even rizwan's 131 against Sri Lanka and fakhar's 60 ball 100( which isn't his best innings, just one of) tops it by miles.

 

[Usman Chadda]

Brother, Just like Mamoon I'd recommend not to derail and talk about imad waseem and present that as a counter argument.

Stick to discussing the topics at hand. His logic does not fall flat.

Him claiming imad is vital and Babar is average are mutually exclusive points. Their entirely 2 different lines of logic.

If his logic falls flat for imad waseem it doesn't fall flat for Babar. Their not the same lines of thinking.

Right, so Imad Wasim is vital in a team where you have two similar hit-and-miss all-rounders?

Yet Babar Azam, who’s performances far eclipses any of his peers and for a team struggling to find decent batsmen, is average?

The two are inter-related because the posters are clamoring for the return of a mediocre cricketer while calling their best batter ‘average’.

 

[Kianig89]

Ricky Ponting a great of the game in numerous occasions in a very serious discussion classified Babar in world class category, but the couch experts have some other agenda

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Strictly speaking, if you keep going missing despite bashing B and C attacks, you can longer hit the eligibility of world class.

If Babar redeems that over the years, I will be the first to welcome him into world class category.

Till then, I will give him above average if you really insist.

 

[160KPH]

Babar Azam put up a masterclass in ODI batting, scoring 151 off 131 balls, to help Pakistan thump Nepal by 238 runs in the opening match of the 2023 Asia Cup.

Babar Azam scores 158 vs England (bowlers being Saqib Mahmood, Lewis Gregory, Brydon Carse and Gregory Overton.) Good knock but sadly overshadowed by Lewis Gregory and James Vince as Pakistan lost the match.

Babar Azam has 19 international centuries out of which 5 are vs WI, 3 vs SL, 2 vs Zimbabwe (one resulted in a tied match) 1 vs Nepal which led to his winning centuries.

Both his centuries vs England have been in losing causes.

His two centuries vs NZ are valuable.

His one vs South Africa is good.

2 of his centuries vs Australia resulted in wins. One of them was chasing 210 runs vs the likes of Behrendoff, Nathan Ellis and he hit 105 off 115 balls. The other century vs Australia vs valuable as Pakistan chased 349, however the bowlers were like Abbot and Ellis again.

The one other century against Australia needs not to be discussed as we all know it was the height of selfishness.

60 percent of Babar's centuries have come against West Indies, Sri Lanka, Zimbabwe and Nepal.

40 percent of Babar's centuries have come against good teams like Australia, England, NZ and South Africa. Out of those 3 of them have resulted in losses.

In short he has 5 centuries against top teams that have resulted in wins.

Out of those 5 centuries 2 vs Australia had a bowling attack of Ellis, Behrendoff, and Abbot.

3 out of 19 centuries of Babar Azam have come against top class attacks that have resulted in wins.

And he is world class?

Please give me a break.

Wow, you’re telling me that good players score more centuries against bad teams than good teams?

Almost all players score more centuries against bad bowling attacks than good bowling attacks. That’s because they’re good bowling attacks. That’s true of almost all top players. 25 out of 50 of Virat’s centuries are against West Indies, Zimbabwe, and Bangladesh. Does that mean he’s bad because 50% of his centuries are against these teams? Of course not.

 

[IMMY69]

@dr bassim already answered your question.

So theirs no need. But you answering What a load of dross isnt a counter argument btw.

There is no argument to be had.
Only a complete numpty or agenda driven would argue otherwise.

There are posters who you can debate with and then there ones like yourself who simply have an agenda.
A dark heart and there is no point in wasting time on it.

Dr Bassim's post is a shambles.
His whole argument to make Babar look like an average batsman is just logical. Five centuries in wins against top opposition is just a laughable argument...

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Wow, you’re telling me that good players score more centuries against bad teams than good teams?

Almost all players score more centuries against bad bowling attacks than good bowling attacks. That’s because they’re good bowling attacks. That’s true of almost all top players. 25 out of 50 of Virat’s centuries are against West Indies, Zimbabwe, and Bangladesh. Does that mean he’s bad because 50% of his centuries are against these teams? Of course not.

Nice try.

But not only is Virat an ATG chaser but > 85 percent of his centuries have resulted in wins for his team.

For Babar 40 percent of his centuries have resulted in wins.

The gap is as huge as the Grand Canyon yet you tried to jump it.

Lets keep this comparison to Babar vs Amla or some other average ODI cricketer instead of an ATG.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

There is no argument to be had.
Only a complete numpty or agenda driven would argue otherwise.

There are posters who you can debate with and then there ones like yourself who simply have an agenda.
A dark heart and there is no point in wasting time on it.

Dr Bassim's post is a shambles.
His whole argument to make Babar look like an average batsman is just logical. Five centuries in wins against top opposition is just a laughable argument...

I haven't decided to make Babar look like anything.

I presented facts.

You don't like them because it makes Babar look quite poor.

The good news is that if he improves, I will be the first to admit that he is a great player because unlike illogical fans or illogical hatred I have no ulterior motives.

I take everything at face value.

If Babar can hit a few ATG centuries, why not?

I will switch over to his bandwagon.

 

[Mamoon]

Imad Wasim avoiding fitness tests on the basis of some mysterious injury has escaped the notice of most fans here.

The agenda based support is nauseating.

It is funny how these players get “injured” when it is time to do some rigorous fitness Tests.

Imad had no problem playing the entire PSL but is now nursing a knee injury to avoid doing a few laps. Hilarious.

 

[160KPH]

Secondly world class cannot just be throw around, not can ONCE IN A GENERATIONAL TALENT LOL.

These arguments are getting ridiculous now, you guys have no idea you're insulting the likes of Warner, de villers etc by putting babar's name in front of them lmao.

You misread my post. I said Babar can not be listed next to ABD and Kohli because those guys are not just world class but they’re generational players.

In order to be world class you need to play fakhar or kishan like innings but on a CONSISTENT BASIS which kohli, rachin, Warner, can do and ab could easily do in his prime.

If someone could play the type of innings Fakhar Zaman played against New Zealand on a consistent basis they would be the greatest player of all time. No one has ever played those type of innings on a consistent basis.

Also I don’t even know why you’re mentioning Ishan Kishan in this. He’s scored 1 100 in his entire ODI career and that was the 210 against Bangladesh. He’s not even in the discussion of players on that level.

 

[Mamoon]

Your original claim was that hes in the same caliber that they are

Please quote my “original claim” where I stated that Babar is of the same caliber as Kohli and Rohit.

 

[160KPH]

Nice try.

But not only is Virat an ATG chaser but > 85 percent of his centuries have resulted in wins for his team.

For Babar 40 percent of his centuries have resulted in wins.

The gap is as huge as the Grand Canyon yet you tried to jump it.

Let’s keep this comparison to Babar vs Amla or some other average ODI cricketer instead of an ATG.

Alma’s career is better than almost any Pakistan ODI batsmen.

Amla’s career is also about 10,000x better than Imad Wasim who you continuously call a match winner, so it’s pretty clear you have extreme double standards.

 

[Saj]

Wow, Babar's captaincy must have improved a lot in the last 3 months.

Did I miss something at the PSL?

 

[mominsaigol]

Please quote my “original claim” where I stated that Babar is of the same caliber as Kohli and Rohit.

Another Strawman.

You claimed he's on the caliber of Indian bats and that he'd world class.

Both words which I've debunked multiple times. As I said you've run out of points.

 

[IMMY69]

I haven't decided to make Babar look like anything.

I presented facts.

You don't like them because it makes Babar look quite poor.

The good news is that if he improves, I will be the first to admit that he is a great player because unlike illogical fans or illogical hatred I have no ulterior motives.

I take everything at face value.

If Babar can hit a few ATG centuries, why not?

I will switch over to his bandwagon.

From world class, I see it's now ATG and about Kohli vs Babar....

Babar is a World Class batsman, this doesn't necessarily mean he's an all time great or on par with Kohli or anything like that...

The point is that he is World Class and not an average or poor batsman.

He's also extremely aesthetically pleasing and people would pay to watch a Babar innings

 

[mominsaigol]

You misread my post. I said Babar can not be listed next to ABD and Kohli because those guys are not just world class but they’re generational players.

If someone could play the type of innings Fakhar Zaman played against New Zealand on a consistent basis they would be the greatest player of all time. No one has ever played those type of innings on a consistent basis.

Also I don’t even know why you’re mentioning Ishan Kishan in this. He’s scored 1 100 in his entire ODI career and that was the 210 against Bangladesh. He’s not even in the discussion of players on that level.

No because scoring a 60 ball 100 isn't as big a deal when Butler scored these multiple times.

The reason why that innings is relevant cause its Match winning.

Quinton 4 100's and Warner 164 is Match winning. Babar on the other hand is a different case, his game against a c string Australia where he scored by his team still lost is the highlight.

 

[mominsaigol]

From world class, I see it's now ATG and about Kohli vs Babar....

Babar is a World Class batsman, this doesn't necessarily mean he's an all time great or on par with Kohli or anything like that...

The point is that he is World Class and not an average or poor batsman.
He's also extremely aesthetically pleasing and people would pay to watch a Babar innings

He's not world class, at best he's maybe a good player, he's comes in that category, World class does not apply when all top teams have 3 to 4 players superior to him.

 

[IMMY69]

Wow, Babar's captaincy must have improved a lot in the last 3 months.

Did I miss something at the PSL?

Last 3 months?
Come on Saj, when you have a body or institution that reflects the rest of the countries institutions then you'll get such stupid decisions...

World class Batsman bad sadly a very poor captain and it's laughable they're actually contemplating it or not putting to the rumours to bed

 

[160KPH]

Nice try.

But not only is Virat an ATG chaser but > 85 percent of his centuries have resulted in wins for his team.

For Babar 40 percent of his centuries have resulted in wins.

The gap is as huge as the Grand Canyon yet you tried to jump it.

Lets keep this comparison to Babar vs Amla or some other average ODI cricketer instead of an ATG.

Kohli is much much better of a batsmen than Babar.

But that was never the discussion.

Also not sure why you’re straight up lying and making up numbers.

For Babar 40 percent of his centuries have resulted in wins.

15 out of 19 of Babar’s centuries have resulted in wins. This is 78%, not 40%. When Babar scores a centuries we win most of the time.

 

[mominsaigol]

You misread my post. I said Babar can not be listed next to ABD and Kohli because those guys are not just world class but they’re generational players.

If someone could play the type of innings Fakhar Zaman played against New Zealand on a consistent basis they would be the greatest player of all time. No one has ever played those type of innings on a consistent basis.

Also I don’t even know why you’re mentioning Ishan Kishan in this. He’s scored 1 100 in his entire ODI career and that was the 210 against Bangladesh. He’s not even in the discussion of players on that level.

I brought up kishan to illustrate that

A) He's more valuable then babar is for India since he can bat at any position and keep and even he's 2nd string for India, so no Bobby doesn't get into the team when sheryas, Kohli Rohit and Gill are occupying.

B) Secondly its because he scored a 210 which Bobby cannot do, now compare thatbtonrohit who's scored multiple.

Please do not throw world class around like this its beyond embrassing.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

From world class, I see it's now ATG and about Kohli vs Babar....

Babar is a World Class batsman, this doesn't necessarily mean he's an all time great or on par with Kohli or anything like that...

The point is that he is World Class and not an average or poor batsman.
He's also extremely aesthetically pleasing and people would pay to watch a Babar innings

I will give him above average.

He is not a poor batsmen, never said that.

Maybe saying average was a bit harsh but I am tired him going missing when it matters most.

 

[IMMY69]

He's not world class, at best he's maybe a good player, he's comes in that category, World class does not apply when all top teams have 3 to 4 players superior to him.

Yeah ok...

Thanks

 

[160KPH]

No because scoring a 60 ball 100 isn't as big a deal when Butler scored these multiple times.

In ODI Buttler has only scored only two 100 that came from 60 balls or less.

That was also when he walked out at 211/3 with 15 overs left and when he walked out at 194/2 with 15 overs left. Both against Pakistan in bilateral series.

You’re massively overestimating how often these type of innings happen.

 

[gibsyhesperis]

I'm so sick of these four of five posters who clearly have an agenda against Babar.

Would I make him captain again? Honestly I wouldn't as I think he's an inept tactician.

But to call him average is just ludicrous.

Babar is a poor captain but a fine batsman and certainly the best Pakistan have.
Is he as good as Kohli, Root or Williamson, let alone Smith at their best, clearly not but he is still an excellent player.

Pakistan will not win the T20 World Cup and it is frankly irrelevant if the captain were Babar, SSA or Imad.

None of them are tactical geniuses but T20 doesn’t really require huge intellectual powers - the basic problem is that the players are not good enough.

No captain can change that (or indeed neither can a highly lauded, overpaid foreign coach who will last 6 months before being fired by yet another new head of the PCB)