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Peak Sachin Tendulkar vs Peak Virat Kohli

Peak Sachin Tendulkar or Peak Virat Kohli in Tests?

  • Total voters
    6
  • Poll closed .
Sachin at the moment if we consider both formats. Don’t get me wrong Kohli has improved a lot as a test player but he has not reached Sachins level in tests yet. A few more years of dominance from Kohli in tests and then he can surpass Tendulkar.
 
I guess peak means their best and game against spin & pace both not just pace.

Even now when Kohli is on his 'peak' (as some posters are saying), he is at best above average against spin and struggling against spinners like Moeen and Lyon. Tendu would have destroyed such players i have 0 doubt about it.
 
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SarfiBabarHaris said:
I guess peak means their best and game against spin & pace both not just pace.

Even now when Kohli is on his 'peak' (as some posters are saying), he is at best above average against spin and struggling against spinners like Moeen and Lyon. Tendu would have destroyed such players i have 0 doubt about it.
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Thats why it's so hard to put Kohli above him.

Kohli tho dominates pace and scores massively when in zone.

His exploits in SA and ENG are stuff of legends where he outperformed everyone by a mile.
 
SarfiBabarHaris said:
I guess peak means their best and game against spin & pace both not just pace.

Even now when Kohli is on his 'peak' (as some posters are saying), he is at best above average against spin and struggling against spinners like Moeen and Lyon. Tendu would have destroyed such players i have 0 doubt about it.
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Kohli did get out to the likes of Lyon a few more times than he'd have liked, but still he averages 50+ against Lyon. It's similar to a bowler taking 5 wickets after conceding 250 runs.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Thats why it's so hard to put Kohli above him.

Kohli tho dominates pace and scores massively when in zone.

His exploits in SA and ENG are stuff of legends where he outperformed everyone by a mile.
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We're talking about peak right? What's the peak rating of SRT? 898. Never crossed 900 in his 24 years of career. Kohli has just entered his peak in the past 1-2 years or so, and has already attained peak rating of 935, which is ridiculous.
 
King Kong said:
Kohli did get out to the likes of Lyon a few more times than he'd have liked, but still he averages 50+ against Lyon. It's similar to a bowler taking 5 wickets after conceding 250 runs.
Click to expand...

What's Kohli's average against Lyon since 2017?

Lyon was mediocre in 2013 India tour and decent in 2014 home tour.

What's Kohli's numbers against improved Lyon?
 
King Kong said:
We're talking about peak right? What's the peak rating of SRT? 898. Never crossed 900 in his 24 years of career. Kohli has just entered his peak in the past 1-2 years or so, and has already attained peak rating of 935, which is ridiculous.
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Tendulkar has no weakness.

Kohli goes missing on turning tracks against quality bowling.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
What's Kohli's average against Lyon since 2017?

Lyon was mediocre in 2013 India tour and decent in 2014 home tour.

What's Kohli's numbers against improved Lyon?
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He hasn't bowled much to Kohli since then. Bowled a total of 80 balls, getting him out twice.
 
Kohli like Ponting is great against pace but against spinner he is pretty weak even at his peak.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Tendulkar has no weakness.

Kohli goes missing on turning tracks against quality bowling.
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Weakness and all else are intangibles. What matters are results. I wouldn't consider those failures against SA in 2015 to bring down Kohli where Dean Elgar looked a world class bowler. He only failed in one series on turning tracks(against AUS). He also had a few good knocks on turners too.
 
I second what Ponting said when asked to him about comparisons between Tendulkar and Kohli.

"The comparison is not correct at this stage of the career and that too from a player who has played 200 Tests. You remember Sachin from the time that he was in the last phase of the career, not at the time when he was starting or in the middle period. Everyone has compared Virat to them but they have to see whether they can keep domination on international cricket for 10, 12, 15 years."


"Sachin did this and he is also the sign of the three champions of the game and this is the real champion. Playing two hundred Tests is not a minor issue. I also played 168 but the matter of two hundred is different. Let’s see how Virat’s career graph goes. Only after the end of his career should he be compared to Sachin, otherwise it would be excessive with both of them. ”
 
There is some truth to the statement that Tendulkar faced better attacks, but it is often overblown. If we dig deep, Australia, West Indies and Sri Lanka were the only two teams with superior attacks.

Of course, you can add Pakistan to the list as well, but he only played 3 Tests against Wasim, Waqar and Saqlain in the 90s and failed barring the Chennai masterclass.

England and New Zealand have better attacks today, while the South African attack is very much comparable to the one that Tendulkar faced.

There is no doubt that Australia do not have bowlers like McGrath and Warne today, but their current attack is world class in its own right and among their best ever.

Of course, it is perfectly fine for people to rate Tendulkar higher due to so and so reasons, but statements like there is no comparison and he is far ahead etc. are largely baseless now.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Tendulkar has no weakness.

Kohli goes missing on turning tracks against quality bowling.
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True. He is slightly weak against proper spin. But, Tendulkar rarely took a series by the scruff off the neck as Kohli does. Be it against England at home in 2016, or outshine every other batsman from his and the opposition in SA and England. Even in LOIs, his performance in SA and England was better than everyone else combined.

Kohli is not better than Tendulkar in both formats. Not yet at least. But if (and a BIG IF) he keeps going like this for another set of home and away series, he will overtake Sachin in tests. In ODI, he delivers in the WC and he would have overtaken Sachin for me.
 
King Kong said:
We're talking about peak right? What's the peak rating of SRT? 898. Never crossed 900 in his 24 years of career. Kohli has just entered his peak in the past 1-2 years or so, and has already attained peak rating of 935, which is ridiculous.
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Good point , considered him as a god is ridiculous , Kohli is better and contribute to the team.
 
Tendulkar at his peak was averaging 58-60, talk about peak. Kohli is brilliant but he is up against one of the greatest of all-time, if not the greatest ever.
 
King Kong said:
We're talking about peak right? What's the peak rating of SRT? 898. Never crossed 900 in his 24 years of career. Kohli has just entered his peak in the past 1-2 years or so, and has already attained peak rating of 935, which is ridiculous.
Click to expand...

Peak rating is not the definition of greatness. Its one factor, but cannot be the only criteria. You can have a very high peak rating after having 1-2 good years, but remain average otherwise.

If you look at Sachin's rating, he remained consistenly above 750 for 75% of his career and remained in the top 10 rank for 10 years between 93 and 2003. This means he was extremely consistent and rarely had a bad series. Thats remarkable given that he played for 23 years.
 
Spinners Tendu faced --> Murali, Warne, Saqi etc

Spinners Kohli faced --> Herath, Lyon, Ali etc

And you telling me both faced bowlers of same quality? Tell me you are joking.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Kohli tho dominates pace and scores massively when in zone.
Click to expand...

Kohli is excellent against express pace and bounce but against swing and seam he is not.

I have my theory and strongly believe he would not have been a great player like Tendu if he had played in the 90s as bowlers that time were vastly superior when it comes to swing/seam and reverse swing.
 
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SarfiBabarHaris said:
Spinners Tendu faced --> Murali, Warne, Saqi etc

Spinners Kohli faced --> Herath, Lyon, Ali etc

And you telling me both faced bowlers of same quality? Tell me you are joking.
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Kohli also face , murali. Don't post without research and he had good record against Sri Lanka.
 
Mr. Cricket said:
Kohli also face , murali. Don't post without research and he had good record against Sri Lanka.
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Yeah a Murali on his last legs in odis.
I can post 10 more quality bowlers like that for Tendu.

Btw how many matches Kohli played against Murali in tests?
Answer is --> NONE

Dont post rubbish!
 
SarfiBabarHaris said:
Yeah a Murali on his last legs in odis.
I can post 10 more quality bowlers like that for Tendu.

Btw how many matches Kohli played against Murali in tests?
Answer is --> NONE

Dont post rubbish!
Click to expand...

Point is facing murali or not. He faced murali.
And when did u talk about test.
 
SarfiBabarHaris said:
Yeah a Murali on his last legs in odis.
I can post 10 more quality bowlers like that for Tendu.

Btw how many matches Kohli played against Murali in tests?
Answer is --> NONE

Dont post rubbish!
Click to expand...

Even Sachin faced Hadlee and Marshall :))
 
Peak Tendulkar in a heart beat.

Those who have seen both in their peaks don’t have much to think about here. Now it’s a clear call.

Kohli is no Sachin in ODIs either

Sachin is the biggest legend of world cups. 6 of them overall and he DOMINATED 3 of them
 
Tendulkar an opener with no pressure of having a weak middle order. He could go his merri way. Even if he gets out someone will bail the team out. Kohli often played a role of builder cum finisher. Tougher role.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
Tendulkar an opener with no pressure of having a weak middle order. He could go his merri way. Even if he gets out someone will bail the team out. Kohli often played a role of builder cum finisher. Tougher role.
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Are you serious? Go look at the team in 90's, that team had 1 good batsman his name was tendulkar and he had no worldclass bowling to back him like kohli does. Tendulkar only got a decent team around him in mid 2000's. That's 15 years of playing with rubbish or inconsistent players.

People switched off their TV's when tendulkar got out, that's what tendulkar had to deal with.
 
freelance_cricketer said:
Peak Tendulkar in a heart beat.

Those who have seen both in their peaks don’t have much to think about here. Now it’s a clear call.

Kohli is no Sachin in ODIs either

Sachin is the biggest legend of world cups. 6 of them overall and he DOMINATED 3 of them
Click to expand...

Tendulkar needed his 5th world Cup when he was 38 on batting friendly home conditions to score a ton against a team that was not called Kenya, Namibia or Sri Lanka.

Give Kohli some time, he has been very consistent so far on some tricky wickets. He will come good.
 
Kohli has surpassed tendulkar in odis and with a century in knockouts he will leave sachin way behind.
 
Dead Ball said:
Tendulkar needed his 5th world Cup when he was 38 on batting friendly home conditions to score a ton against a team that was not called Kenya, Namibia or Sri Lanka.

Give Kohli some time, he has been very consistent so far on some tricky wickets. He will come good.
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So his 98 vs Pak (03’), or his 90 against Aus (96’) does not count?
 
Hitman said:
So his 98 vs Pak (03’), or his 90 against Aus (96’) does not count?
Click to expand...

They were great knocks. But the reason this thread has been bumped is obviously since Kohli isn't converting his fifties into hundreds.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
Tendulkar an opener with no pressure of having a weak middle order. He could go his merri way. Even if he gets out someone will bail the team out. Kohli often played a role of builder cum finisher. Tougher role.
Click to expand...
yeah like what happend in 96 world cup against Aussies & semifinal vs SL.
 
jeeteshssaxena said:
Kohli has surpassed tendulkar in odis and with a century in knockouts he will leave sachin way behind.
Click to expand...
not yet .... Kohli is a master chaser of huge targets(pucca batting friendly conditions) when there is no relative pressure what so ever. Otherwise there is no comparison. Let us then wait till that arrives because that is not that easy as it can be
 
Kohli is very consistent. Sachin had many peaks throughout his career the 90s peak Sachin is the best batsman to have ever played the game. Similarly the 2000s Sachin was a bit more subdued in terms of attacking prowess but was consistent and played his role perfectly.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
Only in the 90s he had that issue. Right through 2000s he had loads of support.
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support or no support , while Sachin was at the crease he made sure India was always in the game.Whether the following batsmen were competent enough or not is different matter altogether.
This is why I am a lot disappointed with Kohli in the ENG match.When he got out the target for the rest had become a bit too much.iF it was 215 instead of 198 ( 17 runs more) when Kohli got out, India would have been right in the game for others to take off from there.In a normal situation that mere 17 more runs would have been child play for Kohli. But in world cup ...
 
satheesh said:
support or no support , while Sachin was at the crease he made sure India was always in the game.Whether the following batsmen were competent enough or not is different matter altogether.
This is why I am a lot disappointed with Kohli in the ENG match.When he got out the target for the rest had become a bit too much.iF it was 215 instead of 198 ( 17 runs more) when Kohli got out, India would have been right in the game for others to take off from there.In a normal situation that mere 17 more runs would have been child play for Kohli. But in world cup ...
Click to expand...

World cup doesn't mean rubbish balls won't become good balls. It was just unfortunate he could find the gap. a meter on either side it was going for boundary. You could say he was a tad unlucky. Just an unfortunate coincidence. Hope it doesn't happen in the playoffs. India is a 2 men team. They have to build and also accelerate unlike ENgland who can keep on slogging as someone will take over. They went as far as they could go. How long they are going to carry the whole batting line up for 40 overs in every match.
 
Peak SRT was magic, he had an inhuman presence and an X factor which Kohli simply does not have..
 
Kohli is not only a far superior batsman than Tendulkar already but a much better captain. There was a reason Tendulkar couldn't handle captaincy....
 
Sachin Ramesh Tendulkar.

Kohli is no doubt the better chaser and captain but Tendulkar is a tier above everyone in the modern era.
 
Tests - tendulkar
ODI - Kohli

Kohli is mentally tougher and fitter.But Tendulkar was just naturally better.
At his absolute peak (1994-1999 before 1st back injury and later tennis elbow) ,Tendulkar was the greatest.Played with an absolute **** team,full of mediocrity and match fixers.Horrible bowling.But whoever has watched tendulkar in mid 90s knew it was magic.Could destroy anyone.
Also peak tendulkar was WAAY better than virat kohli against spinners.Peak tendulkar destroyed warne,took on saqlain on rank turners and did well against murali too.He could destroy spinners in a way kohli is not capable of doing.
 
I have watched Tendulkar right from when he made debut. He had incredible talent to dominate the bowlers. But the construction of Kohli's knocks are almost fool proof compared to Tendulkar who would hit a lot of ball in the air. Almost all stroke players relied on clearing the infield bar a few (like Azharuddin).
This is exactly why people were surprised that he could not convert a couple of 50s in this world cup. All were soft dismissals.

He stupidly gave himself out against Pakistan which was not necessary. He is getting out to trundlers like Stoinis, Phelu, Holder, Plunkett. This is kinda similar to Tendulkar who often got out to guys like Cronje, Gavin Larsen, Razzaq.
 
austerlitz said:
Tests - tendulkar
ODI - Kohli

Kohli is mentally tougher and fitter.But Tendulkar was just naturally better.
At his absolute peak (1994-1999 before 1st back injury and later tennis elbow) ,Tendulkar was the greatest.Played with an absolute **** team,full of mediocrity and match fixers.Horrible bowling.But whoever has watched tendulkar in mid 90s knew it was magic.Could destroy anyone.
Also peak tendulkar was WAAY better than virat kohli against spinners.Peak tendulkar destroyed warne,took on saqlain on rank turners and did well against murali too.He could destroy spinners in a way kohli is not capable of doing.
Click to expand...
This.Kohli even at his speak struggles against lalloos like Moeen Ali. Sachin is ahead of Kohli as a pure batsman but Kohli wins everything else.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
I have watched Tendulkar right from when he made debut. He had incredible talent to dominate the bowlers. But the construction of Kohli's knocks are almost fool proof compared to Tendulkar who would hit a lot of ball in the air. Almost all stroke players relied on clearing the infield bar a few (like Azharuddin).
This is exactly why people were surprised that he could not convert a couple of 50s in this world cup. All were soft dismissals.

He stupidly gave himself out against Pakistan which was not necessary. He is getting out to trundlers like Stoinis, Phelu, Holder, Plunkett. This is kinda similar to Tendulkar who often got out to guys like Cronje, Gavin Larsen, Razzaq.
Click to expand...

Razzaq was a decent bowler
 
The one thing at least going for Tendulkar was he played against some of the greatest bowlers cricket has ever seen.

I can't say the same for the new generation of batsmen now.

Kohli is still world class though.
 
Sachin because he could bowl too. Sachin was also a polite human being; Kohli behaves like an uneducated gangster.
 
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austerlitz said:
Tests - tendulkar
ODI - Kohli

Kohli is mentally tougher and fitter.But Tendulkar was just naturally better.
At his absolute peak (1994-1999 before 1st back injury and later tennis elbow) ,Tendulkar was the greatest.Played with an absolute **** team,full of mediocrity and match fixers.Horrible bowling.But whoever has watched tendulkar in mid 90s knew it was magic.Could destroy anyone.
Also peak tendulkar was WAAY better than virat kohli against spinners.Peak tendulkar destroyed warne,took on saqlain on rank turners and did well against murali too.He could destroy spinners in a way kohli is not capable of doing.
Click to expand...

if only he shows this toughness in world cups
 
Kohli bats at a much more difficult position than Tendulkar. I would Kohlis contribution much above Tendulkar. And then bring in the captaincy and fielding angle
 
jnaveen1980 said:
I have watched Tendulkar right from when he made debut. He had incredible talent to dominate the bowlers. But the construction of Kohli's knocks are almost fool proof compared to Tendulkar who would hit a lot of ball in the air. Almost all stroke players relied on clearing the infield bar a few (like Azharuddin).
This is exactly why people were surprised that he could not convert a couple of 50s in this world cup. All were soft dismissals.

He stupidly gave himself out against Pakistan which was not necessary. He is getting out to trundlers like Stoinis, Phelu, Holder, Plunkett. This is kinda similar to Tendulkar who often got out to guys like Cronje, Gavin Larsen, Razzaq.
Click to expand...

Test cricket is the truest judge of talent where Tendulkar still is quite ahead. At this age he averaged nearly 60.

Over the 100+ years of cricketing evolution, test batsmanship has remained a matter of guts and temperament.

ODI cricket has kept evolving. Like you talked about better inning management, safe aggressive cricket, chasing mentality, strike rotation etc have all evolved over the years. Tendulkar actually is THE revolutionary in terms of how to pace an ODI inning. In an era great ODI batsmen settled for 8-10 centuries he showed the world how to be prolific and hit tons after tons. Kohli has merely taken it from Tendulkar’s book and taken it one step ahead burn only in ODI cricket.

All said and done, Tendulkar could pull a batting master class like he did at centurion in 2003 out of the hat which Kohli till date has not managed in 50 overs tournaments. It’s a fair point against his legacy claimed as GOAT. Tendulkar TOWERS over Kohli in world cups.
 
With all due respect, legends are not made in bilateral series with 5 thousand runs or 50 thousand runs as is the case with Hashim Amla.

Guptil, Gayle, even Luo Vincent have some crazy knocks to their name in bilateral international friendlies.

Tendulkar played 5 World Cup matches against Pakistan and won 3 man of the matches in them. Stuff like that is what sets him apart.
 
Sherlock said:
The one thing at least going for Tendulkar was he played against some of the greatest bowlers cricket has ever seen.

I can't say the same for the new generation of batsmen now.

Kohli is still world class though.
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There was no hiding in the 90s, Pakistan after all their main pacers and spinners had people like Razzaq and Afridi coming at you which was crazy.

Every major team except India had ATG level pacers
 
The thread title says Peak Virat vs Peak Sachin.
I would say that Sachin pre-tennis elbow was the most dynamic batsman I have seen to date with AB at second in terms of peak batting ability at their peak.
Kohli is the one with more focus and determination but he simply hasn't been as good as Sachin at his peak at any point so far in his career in terms of batting ability.

Kohli is getting a bit one dimensional now, I think he's trying to adjust him game. He's past his peak for me, still best in the world right now.
 
Poor Kohli, openers keep setting an ideal platform for him every match and he can't even get a big one from thereon.

Cant even score against Bangaldesh
 
Sachin in World Cup Semi Finals :

65 during 1996 WC
83 during 2003 WC
85 during 2011 WC

Kohli in World Cup Semi Finals :

9 during 2011 WC
1 during 2015 WC
1 during 2019 WC
 
ManFan said:
He had a mental block in the Finals; that’s it.

He was a beast otherwise.
Click to expand...

Exactly, the WC finals are the only dark spot in Tendulkar's glorious ODI career.

Kohli's only bright spots are unfortunately his bilateral stats (which not even Kohli rates highly, he skips every other series now).
 
Peak Tendu dismantles Kohli.

Tendu performed against ATG bowlers in hardest of bowling conditions while whole team failed. Kohli fails the only time it matters even with such a good team. If Sachin had a team half as good as Kohli has, India would have won many more trophies.
 
Following two factors bother Indians about Kohli :-

1. Remaining inferior to Smith as a test batsman
Peak Tendulkar surpassed Lara in mid 90s to establish himself as The best test batsman in the world, a status he enjoyed for nearly a decade until Dravid in 2002-2003 and later Ponting and a resurgent Lara in mid 2000s. Tendulkar's second peak in late 2000s to reclaim the top spot cemented his place much like Muhammad Ali and Rod Laver as the greatest of his generation. Kohli has been playing second to Smith for many years now.

2. Tendulkar dominated 3 world cups. Kohli has not dominated even one world cup yet.


Until he does something about the above two factors, there is no way he can ever get past Tendulkar as an Indian legend.
 
In ODI's Sachin contributed in 1996, 1999, 2003 and 2011 world cups. In tests Sachin is already better than Kohli. :viru
 
To be fair , SRT had to face Wasim/Akram/Akhtar , Warne/Lee/McGrath, Donald/Polock/Nitini , Ambrose/Walsh/Bishop, Murli/Vass, Bond/Vetori/Craines

Kholi probably only had to face Broad/Anderson and Bolt/Southee who were stronger than their counterparts who bowled to SRT .. and kholi has actually failed against these 2 teams.. so in tht scenario, SRT > Kholi
 
Bhaag Viru Bhaag said:
In ODI's Sachin contributed in 1996, 1999, 2003 and 2011 world cups. In tests Sachin is already better than Kohli. :viru
Click to expand...

Sachin didn't contribute much during the 1999 WC, he even missed a few matches due to his fathers demise. 1999 was actually Dravid's WC where he was the highest run scorer.

But yeah during 1996, 2003 and 2011 Tendulkar absolutely dominated the tournament. Tendulkar was highest Run scorer in 1996, 2003 WCs and 2nd Highest Run Scorer in 2011 WC. That's Tendulkar dominating 3 WC tournaments.

Kohli has already played three World Cups and his performance in all the tournaments has been very ordinary.

Kohli wasn't even among the Top Ten Run Scorers of the 2019 World Cup.
 
Kohli played a breathtaking knock yesterday but Peak Tendulkar would have 1+ that without sweating and looking somewhat agricultural.
 
Peak kohli outgunning peak tendulkar in all formats

Tests - kohli was weak in England which he overcame in last tour in the most swinging conditions I have seen in England since last 20 years or so . Australia kohli has dominated in a way tendulkar had never dominated .
South Africa - barring late 2000 when Sachin scored a 150 plus master class , Sachin wasn’t a reliable bat there . I prefer kohli to Sachin in South Africa - again the pitches there were worse than india getting out in 60 runs in early 90 S

Odi - kohli is an atg . Better than tendulkar . World cups he hasn’t brought his a gam yet . Likely to change in next wc
But remember he wears the captains hat too . Not the same when u are captain and best batter .

T20 - kohli is the new beast . Can play at all gears . Tendulkar didn’t have the beast gear - not even when he was 20 .
 
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