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Peak Sachin Tendulkar vs Peak Virat Kohli

Peak Sachin Tendulkar or Peak Virat Kohli in Tests?

  • Total voters
    6
  • Poll closed .
Hitman said:
Wasim Akram in his entire career was never rated #1 in ICC Test rankings.
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He probably wasn't the number one bowler at any one time in the world then.

Just as Tendulkar has not ever had a higher peak than Smith.
 
DeadlyVenom said:
He probably wasn't the number one bowler at any one time in the world then.

Just as Tendulkar has not ever had a higher peak than Smith.
Click to expand...
Mohammad Yousuf is ahead of Brian Lara (whom you adore) in all time ICC Test batting rankings.
 
DeadlyVenom said:
He probably wasn't the number one bowler at any one time in the world then.

Just as Tendulkar has not ever had a higher peak than Smith.
Click to expand...

Wasim Akram has a peak ranking of 80 sitting below Mohammed Abbas and Jason Holder.

Honestly think your time is better spent discussing inftimania or whatever. No need to strain your brain talking about stuff you clearly struggle to comprehend. 😉
 
AMSS said:
Wasim Akram has a peak ranking of 80 sitting below Mohammed Abbas and Jason Holder.

Honestly think your time is better spent discussing inftimania or whatever. No need to strain your brain talking about stuff you clearly struggle to comprehend. 😉
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Never ever take the opinion of Pakistani fans on Indian cricketers seriously. The only reason why some of them big up players like Kohli, Dhoni, Dravid, etc is simply because of the stomach ache Tendulkar's international reputation for over 20 years gave them.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
AMSS said:
Wasim Akram has a peak ranking of 80 sitting below Mohammed Abbas and Jason Holder.

Honestly think your time is better spent discussing inftimania or whatever. No need to strain your brain talking about stuff you clearly struggle to comprehend. 😉
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I've never claimed Wasim had a longer and better peak than another bowler though.

You made the claim about Tendulkar and Smith.

Instead of throwing random insults because the facts don't agree with your baseless claim you should go and revise your post.
 
Hitman said:
Never, ever take the opinion of Pakistani fans on Indian cricketers seriously. The only reason why some of them big up players like Kohli, Dhoni, Dravid, etc is simply because of the stomach ache Tendulkar's international reputation for over 20 years gave them.
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This is just silly.

Dhoni and Kohli have smashed us.

Tendulkar lost more matches against Pakistan than he won. Why would he annoy Pakistanis but someone like Kohli wouldn't?

Most Tendulkar fans argue based on emotions. He was the Jimmy Anderson of batting. In almost every metric apart that doesn't correlate to matches played there are many many better players.
 
DeadlyVenom said:
This is just silly.

Dhoni and Kohli have smashed us.

Tendulkar lost more matches against Pakistan than he won. Why would he annoy Pakistanis but someone like Kohli wouldn't?

Most Tendulkar fans argue based on emotions. He was the Jimmy Anderson of batting. In almost every metric apart that doesn't correlate to matches played there are many many better players.
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Is it? That’s your opinion? Well, here’s someone else’s opinion.

 
Hitman said:
Never ever take the opinion of Pakistani fans on Indian cricketers seriously. The only reason why some of them big up players like Kohli, Dhoni, Dravid, etc is simply because of the stomach ache Tendulkar's international reputation for over 20 years gave them.
Click to expand...

I think it has more to do with the fact that Pakistan had a lot of success against India during the glory days of Tendulkar.
 
Hitman said:
Is it? That’s your opinion? Well, here’s someone else’s opinion.

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So when an opinion is in agreement it is valid.

When you don't like it it's because I have a stomach ache, don't know anything about cricket etc etc

Anyway I'm not sure what this video proves. That Richie Benaud at one point thought Tendulkar was the best. With no real metric apart from his eyes?

Are his eyes divine? Why should we accept it?

The video is completely irrelevant to what's being discussed.
 
Hitman said:
No, it's just hatred and insecurity.
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Hatred and insecurity against someone that we beat more often that lost to?

This doesn't make any sense. Please explain instead of posting videos about old Aussies.
 
DeadlyVenom said:
So when an opinion is in agreement it is valid.

When you don't like it it's because I have a stomach ache, don't know anything about cricket etc etc

Anyway I'm not sure what this video proves. That Richie Benaud at one point thought Tendulkar was the best. With no real metric apart from his eyes?

Are his eyes divine? Why should we accept it?

The video is completely irrelevant to what's being discussed.
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Who is asking you to accept it? You accepting it or not makes no difference to the credibility of his opinion. That man saw Bradman play. The world would gladly take his opinion over that of a no-named Pakistani.
 
Hitman said:
Who is asking you to accept it? You accepting it or not makes no difference to the credibility of his opinion. That man saw Bradman play. The world would gladly take his opinion over that of a no-named Pakistani.
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You are still being emotional and throwing insults while accusing others of hatred and insecurity.

You need to back up your comment instead of crying.

Does seeing Bradman play give someone holy powers?
 
DeadlyVenom said:
You are still being emotional and throwing insults while accusing others of hatred and insecurity.

You need to back up your comment instead of crying.

Does seeing Bradman play give someone holy powers?​
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Being the one of the most respected cricket analyst ever and a former highly successful Aussie captain gives him far more credibility than a random Pakistani. You want some more dose? Here is is one of your own countryman that your nation's cricket fans revere.

​
Tendulkar is the best ever: Hanif Mohammad​



How does one feel after scoring 499 runs in a single innings?

"Tired," says Hanif Mohammad.

The 69-year-old former opener, who ranks amongst one of the greatest batsmen in Pakistan and world cricket, kept wickets and bowled with both arms in Test cricket and once held the record for the highest first class individual score of 499.

Hanif told rediff.com that the 499 he scored on January 11, 1959 was something he had never even dreamt of.

"I had scored 230 the previous year in the Quaid-E-Azam Trophy. So the next year when I got a hundred I decided to break my own record by scoring a 300. Wasim Mohammad was my elder brother and also the captain of the team. He knew all the cricket records by heart and we used to call him Wisden.


"At the end of the day, when I got 300, my brother asked me to go for the world record held by Don Bradman, who had made 452. I told him that I had only scored 300 and was another 150 runs away from the record. I told him it would be too much.

"As elder brother and captain of my team he asked me to continue batting the next day and I had to. Back at home he massaged my hands and encouraged me for the big knock the next day."

The little master overhauled the Don's score but failed to cross the 500 mark in a single innings.

"When I was dismissed for 499 I didn't know I had missed scoring 500. Later on when I was told about it I felt I could have got it," he says.

"When I went to Australia in 1965, Bradman came to see me and was surprised to see my size. He thought he would see a six feet six inch man who would have broken the record."

But he reckons that there were no hard feelings when Brian Lara broke his record, scoring 501, because records are meant to be broken.

"But it's a pity that for 35 years people forgot my record, but remembered me when Brian Lara broke it. I got calls from England for three hours when Lara was approaching my score."

Hanif Mohammad was the human form of technical correctness. Never one to play aerial shots; Hanif wore the bowlers down before moving in for the kill.

"Not much has changed since I quit playing," he says.

"There is more protection for the batsmen and the wickets are covered. The technique still remains the same."

But one-day cricket is making batsmen play more strokes, he believes.

"It is forcing batsmen to hit the ball, whether it is there to be hit or not. This is where batting has changed and spoilt the techniques of some batsmen. For one-day matches the approach is all right, but when you are playing Test cricket don't play one-day strokes. Play the waiting game; wait for the loose balls," he advises.

"Take Virender Sehwag for example. His technique is completely unsuited for Test cricket, yet he survives.

"Now take Rahul Dravid, he takes time to settle, whether he is playing Test or one-day cricket. Once he's settled he knows he has all the strokes to get the runs. This is the way batsmen should prepare themselves."

But, he says, in the end you cannot compare players with different techniques because both types of batsmen score runs.

"I am not upset about the way batsmen play one-day cricket. There was no one-day cricket during my time. If there were one-dayers during that time then probably I would also have played like these guys do. The essence of one-day cricket is that you need runs to win the game the same day. So you have to score at least at a strike rate of 60-70 runs per hundred balls."

But he believes the art of batting long hours is probably lost due to the one-day onslaught.

"Batsmen have become habitual to playing one-day cricket and want to score of every ball. It will be very difficult to change technique and play like that anymore for most batsmen."

Born in Junagadh, Hanif Mohammad is a great fan of Sunil Gavaskar.

"To my mind Sunil was the most complete opener. Technically, he was more sound than me. His records show how great a batsman he was. He was the most perfect opening batsman ever. You cannot expect more from any opener.

"But Sachin Tendulkar is the best ever. No one can come near him. No one can touch him as a batsman. He is number one. Brian Lara and Inzamam-ul Haq are world class, but Tendulkar is unmatched. His technique, judgement, his confidence and range of strokes are simply amazing.

"He had more strokes than Sunil Gavaskar and in that respect was better than him."

In comparison, he feels sad that Pakistan is not producing great batsmen any more.

"There is no one at the moment in Pakistan. They only have two good batsmen in Yousuf Youhana and Inzamam-ul Haq. This country has given batsmen like Javed Miandad, Zaheer Abbas, Sadiq Mohammad and Mushtaq Mohammad but now we are struggling.

"Pakistan cricket is in the rebuilding stage and it takes time. In two years Pakistan will re establish itself," he feels.

Having represented Pakistan in the first Test series against India in 1952-53, the little master is glad to see India-Pakistan play cricket again.

"I still can't believe that India is playing Pakistan in Karachi. So I decided to come and to the stadium and see it for myself. People are happy to come near each other again and that is the best thing for the sport."
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Link: https://www.rediff.com/cricket/2004/mar/14hanif.htm​
 
Tendulkar, then some daylight and then a little bit more sunlight and then Kohli.

It is not even a comparison...LOL.

I am following and watching cricket for a long time and has never seen been a better batsman than SRT.
 
DeadlyVenom said:
You are still being emotional and throwing insults while accusing others of hatred and insecurity.

You need to back up your comment instead of crying.

Does seeing Bradman play give someone holy powers?
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You won't reply any further? I have tons and tons of such articles where former greats of the game have rated him the best. So much that you won't be able to count.
 
Hitman said:
You won't reply any further? I have tons and tons of such articles where former greats of the game have rated him the best. So much that you won't be able to count.
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So your basis for Tendulkar is that others have seen him play and rate him the greatest.

I don't agree with that.

Statistically he is not the greatest in almost all metrics.

The best bowlers who actually bowled to him rate others higher.

Old men opinion has some validity. If former cricketers from another era have a positive opinion then of course it support he was a good player but it nowhere makes them the best. I am happy to agree that Tendulkar is probably in the top 30 batsman to have played the game based on the opinion of Hanif and Richie.

But there needs to be more than that. Something that can be backed up.

Again statistically others are superior.

Great bowlers ill give you four as an example - Murali McGrath, Imran, Wasim all rate others higher.

In the modern era Smith and Kohli have surpassed him.

For me just having old players put him in their All time XI isn't enough.
 
DeadlyVenom said:
So your basis for Tendulkar is that others have seen him play and rate him the greatest.

I don't agree with that.

Statistically he is not the greatest in almost all metrics.

The best bowlers who actually bowled to him rate others higher.

Old men opinion has some validity. If former cricketers from another era have a positive opinion then of course it support he was a good player but it nowhere makes them the best. I am happy to agree that Tendulkar is probably in the top 30 batsman to have played the game based on the opinion of Hanif and Richie.

But there needs to be more than that. Something that can be backed up.

Again statistically others are superior.

Great bowlers ill give you four as an example - Murali McGrath, Imran, Wasim all rate others higher.

In the modern era Smith and Kohli have surpassed him.

For me just having old players put him in their All time XI isn't enough.
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Haven't seen a better batsman than Sachin, says Viv Richards​


Legendary batsman Viv Richards has said that batting maestro Sachin Tendulkar is the best batsman he has ever seen in his life.

"I didn’t see Don (Bradman) but to me, in all my years associated with the game, I haven’t seen a better batsman than Sachin Tendulkar. If there is a better batsman than Sachin, then he hasn't arrived yet," said the legendary batsman on the sidelines of a promotional event at the Queen's Park Oval on Thursday.

Richards was an idol for Tendulkar.

Richards said Tendulkar has achieved every possible thing in his kitty, and rated the Mumbaikar maestro as a "complete cricketer".

"To me the most remarkable thing about Tendulkar is how he has completed the full cycle of his cricketing career, overcoming pain, agony, failures, fatigue, injuries yet continuing relentlessly till the point the circle was complete. He is the most complete package, the cricketer I respect more than anyone else," he said.

Richards said Tendulkar took the right decision by skipping the complete West Indies tour.

"He is 37 and not getting any younger. You have got to respect him for his decision. He has done enough to decide what is best for him. He knows his commitments and the approach he must take for the rest of his career," he said.

Richards, however, feels that Tendulkar’s presence could have done a world of good to the young cricketers of the Caribbean.

"It would have been fantastic for the young boys to just watch him in action; how he prepares his innings; the way he goes about building his knock, overcoming conditions and opponents. It could have been an invaluable experience for our young batsmen," he said.​
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Link: https://www.hindustantimes.com/cric...ys-richards/story-qy4cuJQ4XIS4leh5VKnKMN.html
 
Ab Fan said:
Test cricket - Tendulkar
ODI cricket - Virat Kohli
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Virat played in an easier era in odi. Sachin is a better odi player but kohli is a better chaser. Chasing wise kohli is an absolute monster of a player, but Sachin is still overall superior.

Regardless their not as far apart as people make them out to be. Their realtive and you can make arguments for both as to who's superior.
 
SRT is the best test batsman I have seen in the last 30 years. Teams had ATG bowlers in 90s and yet you could expect every series SRT scoring a ton in opposition's den. Just to put it in context, Lara was a gun batsman and yet he averaged 51 in 90s and SRT averaged 58 in the same period.

SRT will be pretty much sure shot spot in world XI test for me due to how vesatile he was. Kohli won't make the cut for me in test.

In ODI, SRT was a gun opener but I think chasing kohli is far ahead of anyone else in history.


Over all, SRT due to test because he was simply in differnet league. He did not just have random stats or played when very few teams had ATG bowlers, he had great stats in 90s when so many team had gun bowlers. Every single away test tours, he was expected to score and he did score. He scored heavily agasint the best team of his era as well.
 
Buffet said:
SRT is the best test batsman I have seen in the last 30 years. Teams had ATG bowlers in 90s and yet you could expect every series SRT scoring a ton in opposition's den. Just to put it in context, Lara was a gun batsman and yet he averaged 51 in 90s and SRT averaged 58 in the same period.

SRT will be pretty much sure shot spot in world XI test for me due to how vesatile he was. Kohli won't make the cut for me in test.

In ODI, SRT was a gun opener but I think chasing kohli is far ahead of anyone else in history.


Over all, SRT due to test because he was simply in differnet league. He did not just have random stats or played when very few teams had ATG bowlers, he had great stats in 90s when so many team had gun bowlers. Every single away test tours, he was expected to score and he did score. He scored heavily agasint the best team of his era as well.
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Is chasing Kohli really far ahead of everyone?
Kohli has botched so many chases in ICC ODI tournaments that it would be unfair to say he is far ahead..
2011 WC Final. He scored 30+. He put up a very valuable partnership with Gambir, but as the best as the best chaser that would be an average performance.
2015 WC pretty poor. He exactly knew what Johnson was trying to achieve, and he still fell in the trap.
2017 CT - very poor show. Got a lifeline but still didn’t capitalize.
2019 WC worse of all IMO. How could Kohli not help India chase down 240 + was beyond me. I believe most of his chases happened in bilateral series or small tournaments like triseries or Asia cups.
You know who was a really clutch chaser? Gautam Gambhir. That guy was good. 2009 CT match against Pak. 2011 QF, 2011 Final. He put his hand up in all those matches.
 
Kohli played most of his cricket in batting friendly era while Sachin had to face top-class bowling with strict rules. Cannot just compare kohli and Sachin who played in different eras mostly.

Kohli for ODIs and Sachin for Tests would be my pick.
 
DeadlyVenom said:
So your basis for Tendulkar is that others have seen him play and rate him the greatest.

I don't agree with that.

Statistically he is not the greatest in almost all metrics.

The best bowlers who actually bowled to him rate others higher.

Old men opinion has some validity. If former cricketers from another era have a positive opinion then of course it support he was a good player but it nowhere makes them the best. I am happy to agree that Tendulkar is probably in the top 30 batsman to have played the game based on the opinion of Hanif and Richie.

But there needs to be more than that. Something that can be backed up.

Again statistically others are superior.

Great bowlers ill give you four as an example - Murali McGrath, Imran, Wasim all rate others higher.

In the modern era Smith and Kohli have surpassed him.

For me just having old players put him in their All time XI isn't enough.
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You refuse to reply every time I reply you. The person in question this time is King Viv. A player that Pakistanis idolise and someone whom your hero Imran Khan has sung praises since his playing days till now.

Or is Viv looking for an IPL contract?
 
Hitman said:
You refuse to reply every time I reply you. The person in question this time is King Viv. A player that Pakistanis idolise and someone whom your hero Imran Khan has sung praises since his playing days till now.

Or is Viv looking for an IPL contract?
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Sorry bro sometimes I see notifications and jump onto another thread by that time I forget about the quote notification.

Players are entitled to their opinions. As are you and as am I.

You can rely on them for the basis of yours and for me I will rely on alternatives opinions and and some stats.

We will not agree so can agree to disagree respectfully. However one thing I want you to note is I don't have a personal beef with Tendulkar...if there was a player for Pakistanis to dislike it would be Kohli as he has smashed us more than anyone.
 
DeadlyVenom said:
Sorry bro sometimes I see notifications and jump onto another thread by that time I forget about the quote notification.

Players are entitled to their opinions. As are you and as am I.

You can rely on them for the basis of yours and for me I will rely on alternatives opinions and and some stats.

We will not agree so can agree to disagree respectfully. However one thing I want you to note is I don't have a personal beef with Tendulkar...if there was a player for Pakistanis to dislike it would be Kohli as he has smashed us more than anyone.
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🤣🤣 Cough, cough …

David Gower's 50 Greatest Cricketers of All Time

David Gower's 50 Greatest Cricketers of All Time (May 1, 2015) Here's a copy over Amazon - http://www.amazon.com/David-Gowers-Greatest-Cricketers-Time/dp/1906850887 And here is his list -...
ppforum.pakpassion.net ppforum.pakpassion.net
 
Hitman said:
🤣🤣 Cough, cough …

David Gower's 50 Greatest Cricketers of All Time

David Gower's 50 Greatest Cricketers of All Time (May 1, 2015) Here's a copy over Amazon - http://www.amazon.com/David-Gowers-Greatest-Cricketers-Time/dp/1906850887 And here is his list -...
ppforum.pakpassion.net ppforum.pakpassion.net
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Yes he is in the top 50 for sure.

It seems you want to continue down this path. That's fine. can you explain why several players average more than Tendulkar? Why several of the greats of the games have more big scores? Why he has completely failed to achieve the pinnacle of batting via a triple hundred? Why his ICC peak isnt that?

Let's hear your words please rather than copy and paste of former cricketers.

And the opinion of Murali, McGrath and Wasim? Can you explain why you prefer the opinion of those that viewed Tendulkar on a TV screen than those who actually bowled to him and his peers?

Since you have called me back here let's hear your responses please. The responses of Hitman not the responses of others...
 
DeadlyVenom said:
Great bowlers ill give you four as an example - Murali McGrath, Imran, Wasim all rate others higher.
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Warne and Alan Donald, two of the best bowlers in 90s rated Tendulkar as best. McGrath rated Lara over Tendulkar but always maintained these two were the best he bowled to.

But why would you mention Wasim among the greats? By your own criteria he ranks at 80 on ICC AT Test bowler list, below Holder and Abbas. DOn't think his opinion carries any weight. Did Akram ever win a series for his team in AUS/Windies/South Africa - three of the toughest test destinations in 90s?
 
AMSS said:
Warne and Alan Donald, two of the best bowlers in 90s rated Tendulkar as best. McGrath rated Lara over Tendulkar but always maintained these two were the best he bowled to.

But why would you mention Wasim among the greats? By your own criteria he ranks at 80 on ICC AT Test bowler list, below Holder and Abbas. DOn't think his opinion carries any weight. Did Akram ever win a series for his team in AUS/Windies/South Africa - three of the toughest test destinations in 90s?
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No no if you remember the 'peak' was your criteria not mine. Don't make it my criteria my friend.

Can you explain why you can scroll to the bottom of this list why one player is missing?


www.espncricinfo.com

Test matches | Batting records | Most runs in an innings | ESPNcricinfo

Find records of Most runs in an innings in Test matches only on ESPNcricinfo.
www.espncricinfo.com www.espncricinfo.com
 
Also I'm genuinely unaware has Tendulkar won a series in those places you mentioned?
 
DeadlyVenom said:
No no if you remember the 'peak' was your criteria not mine. Don't make it my criteria my friend.
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I think you have a genuine comprehension problem. When I mentioned peak, I mean literal batting peak including matches, runs and average, not ICC ranking.

Now focus and repeat after me.

Sachin's peak of 160 odd test - without a break - is the best any player has ever had post WW2. Most runs, highest average, most centuries. The whole package.
 
DeadlyVenom said:
Yes he is in the top 50 for sure.

It seems you want to continue down this path. That's fine. can you explain why several players average more than Tendulkar? Why several of the greats of the games have more big scores? Why he has completely failed to achieve the pinnacle of batting via a triple hundred? Why his ICC peak isnt that?
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Top 50? Last I checked, David Gower rated him at #3, while your country’s hero not even in top 10.

Can you explain why several players average more than Tendulkar?
Just like dozens and dozens of players average more than Viv Richards and Brian Lara.

Why several of the greats of the games have more big scores?

Just like several of the greats of the game have more big score than Viv Richards and Ricky Ponting.

Why he has completely failed to achieve the pinnacle of batting via a triple hundred?
Just like Viv Richards, Ricky Ponting, Greg Chappell.

Here’s some more dose of reality for you. Here’s cricket bible Wisden picking it’s All Time Xi.
====
WG Grace, Don Bradman, Viv Richards and Shane WarneIMAGE SOURCE,GETTY IMAGES
Wisden has named four Englishmen in an all-time Test World XI to mark 150 years of the Cricketers' Almanack.

Openers Jack Hobbs and WG Grace are included, along with wicketkeeper Alan Knott and fast bowler Sydney Barnes.

The team is captained by legendary Australia batsman Don Bradman and features his countryman Shane Warne.

West Indians Viv Richards, Garry Sobers and Malcolm Marshall all make the XI along with India's Sachin Tendulkar and Wasim Akram of Pakistan.

Wisden World XI
1. Jack Hobbs (England, 1908-1930)

61 Tests, 5,410 runs at 56.94

2. WG Grace (England, 1880-1899)

22 Tests, 1,098 runs at 32.29

3. Donald Bradman (Australia, 1928-1948 - captain)

52 Tests, 6,996 runs at 99.94

4. Sachin Tendulkar (India, 1989-2013)

198 Tests, 15,837 runs at 53.86

5. Viv Richards (West Indies, 1974-1991)

121 Tests, 8,540 runs at 50.23

6. Garry Sobers (West Indies, 1954-1974)

93 Tests, 8,032 runs at 57.78, 235 wickets at 34.03

7. Alan Knott (England, 1967-1981 - wicketkeeper)

95 Tests, 4,389 runs at 32.75, 250 catches, 19 stumpings

8. Wasim Akram (Pakistan, 1985-2002)

104 Tests, 414 wickets at 23.62

9. Shane Warne (Australia, 1992-2007)

145 Tests, 708 wickets at 25.41

10. Malcolm Marshall (West Indies, 1978-1991)

81 Tests, 376 wickets at 20.94

11. Sydney Barnes (England, 1901-14)

27 Tests, 189 wickets at 16.43
 
Hitman said:
Top 50? Last I checked, David Gower rated him at #3, while your country’s hero not even in top 10.

Can you explain why several players average more than Tendulkar?
Just like dozens and dozens of players average more than Viv Richards and Brian Lara.

Why several of the greats of the games have more big scores?

Just like several of the greats of the game have more big score than Viv Richards and Ricky Ponting.

Why he has completely failed to achieve the pinnacle of batting via a triple hundred?
Just like Viv Richards, Ricky Ponting, Greg Chappell.

Here’s some more dose of reality for you. Here’s cricket bible Wisden picking it’s All Time Xi.

www.bbc.co.uk

WG Grace and Shane Warne in Wisden all-time World Test XI - BBC Sport

Wisden names WG Grace and Shane Warne in an all-time Test World XI to mark 150 years of the Cricketers' Almanack.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk
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Lol all you can do is run to more articles.

So Tendulkar is the greatest but now he is just like Viv Pointing and Lara?

Brother by what metric is he the greatest? Is he the greatest player mentioned by nature of his mention in publications.

We are still eagerly awaiting Hitman's words not copy and paste of articles.
 
DeadlyVenom said:
Lol all you can do is run to more articles.

So Tendulkar is the greatest but now he is just like Viv Pointing and Lara?

Brother by what metric is he the greatest? Is he the greatest player mentioned by nature of his mention in publications.

We are still eagerly awaiting Hitman's words not copy and paste of articles.
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The point is you need not have the highest average, or the highest Test score, or a triple hundred to be the GOAT. The biggest example is Viv Richards. Those links I've provided have gazillion times more value than the opinion of a no named nobody like yourself.
 
I dont get why Tendulkar being greatest of all time should be shoved down everyones throat.

You can say Hashim Amla is the GOAT.

Is it a ridiculous opinion? Yes.

Should you be derided for it and called out? Yes.

Does that mean you should be forced into accepting that Hashim isnt GOAT? No.

I have no beef with someone claiming Tendulkar is best ever.

I have no beef either with someone claiming X,Y and Z is better than Tendulkar.

But I dont understand why Indian fans INSIST and FORCE people to accept Tendulkar's greatness on EVERYONE.

Its tiresome and annoying.

Yes, I get it he was a great.

But he retired and is gone.

Move on.
 
Dr_Bassim said:
I dont get why Tendulkar being greatest of all time should be shoved down everyones throat.

You can say Hashim Amla is the GOAT.

Is it a ridiculous opinion? Yes.

Should you be derided for it and called out? Yes.

Does that mean you should be forced into accepting that Hashim isnt GOAT? No.

I have no beef with someone claiming Tendulkar is best ever.

I have no beef either with someone claiming X,Y and Z is better than Tendulkar.

But I dont understand why Indian fans INSIST and FORCE people to accept Tendulkar's greatness on EVERYONE.

Its tiresome and annoying.

Yes, I get it he was a great.

But he retired and is gone.

Move on.
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I agree, let there be dissenting opinions. I too think he was among the GOATs, but it’s an ever evolving playing field. I also strongly feel against comparing players across different eras. Nobody has any clue how a player from one generation will fare in another era with different playing environment and players, it’s all hypothetical and people are ready to go to war for that!! Tells you more about how uninformed, clueless, myopic (pick your choice) a lot of people are.
 
Hitman said:
The point is you need not have the highest average, or the highest Test score, or a triple hundred to be the GOAT. The biggest example is Viv Richards. Those links I've provided have gazillion times more value than the opinion of a no named nobody like yourself.
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Forget my opinion as you clearly can't accept it without making insulting comments.

I'm asking for yours now.

Your opinion is based on just pasting links? You tell me why you think he is the greatest. Use your own brain, your own words, own thoughts.

Come on Hitman you are a real boy not a puppet. Let's hear your opinion.

Or at the very least tell us why Gower and and Richie Benaud watching TV footage should be valued over Wasim, Imran, McGrath or Murli?
 
No doubt Sachin played in an era where bowlers like Wasim, Waqar, and Ambrose were scary to face but what Virat Kohli has achieved at such a high pace is extraordinary so i will place kohli a bit ahead than sachin.
 
DeadlyVenom said:
Forget my opinion as you clearly can't accept it without making insulting comments.

I'm asking for yours now.

Your opinion is based on just pasting links? You tell me why you think he is the greatest. Use your own brain, your own words, own thoughts.

Come on Hitman you are a real boy not a puppet. Let's hear your opinion.

Or at the very least tell us why Gower and and Richie Benaud watching TV footage should be valued over Wasim, Imran, McGrath or Murli?
Click to expand...
The way I rate players is not by averages otherwise imam is a better bat then inzi lol.

I rate them by observation and you can tell alot by observation.

Kohli has weaknesses. Against the early inswing he takes a couple of steps forward and nudges it to the legside because junaid khan exposed kohli in 2012 which is why kohli developed his feet movement. Even in 2021 amd 2022 you can see he was the only player to neutralise shaheen's inswing by nudging a bit down.

While his coming a few steps down usually works, sometimes it doesn't, case in point Amir where he top edged it straight into the fielders hands.

Against outswing he also struggles a bit and that was the one area where analyst consider his weaknesses back in 2014, and kohli has improved alot by now cross batting or pulling it, but he still sometimes gets out by edging it into the stumps when bowling that length.

Against spin kohli is just too good but even very good legspin will bamboozle him like adil rashid did.

Sachin on the other hand is complete. All highlights and innings I saw of his, his timing, his strokes, his hand eye coordination, his ability to adjust from top to bottom hand and his footwork were just too good, secondly he's also much much superior at lofted strokes them kohli is. Their wasn't a single orthodox stroke on the planet that Sachin could not play and as a batter he didn't have any weakness. Sachin gets out either if he makes a mistake, not because you bowl well.

Although the only time I saw Sachin fumbling big was in 2003 and in 2011.

It's the same reason I don't rate chacha or Shadab. Chacha is clueless against wrist spin and shadab just holds everything with a bottom hand, they'll never be established batters with this strategy.
 
peak tendulkar of 2011 on young kohli's knock in world cup final quote-unquote from sachin's autobiography

"We were in a potentially dangerous situation when Virat Kohli arrived at the crease to join Gambhir. Virat had started the World Cup with a hundred against Bangladesh and now he finished off with a key innings in the final. The importance of his contribution is not always acknowledged, but his 35 was part of a key partnership, as both Gautam and Virat managed to score at a brisk pace and so the asking rate was never out of reach."
 
Brad Hogg said on his YouTube channel:

"I don't think Virat is going to get there now. I just don't think Virat is going to get there. I think he's lost his momentum and the momentum that he's lost has been for a number of years now. He's got to turn around in the next 10 Test matches, or he's going to drop off."

"So, Joe Root has 146 Test matches with 12,000 runs. Sachin Tendulkar made nearly 16,000 runs in 200 Test matches. That's 4,000 runs in 66 Tests. I think Joe Root can go close to toppling that."

"I think it's going to be something to watch. Watch out, Joe Root is on the move to beat Sachin Tendulkar. I think quietly he'll have that in the back of his mind to try and topple that little unique stat."
 
Sachin’s greatest ability was his resilience. To stay on top of his game for 24 years. To stay motivated to do it after having achieved a lot in his career.

Imagine Kohli going strong till 2033.

Crazy longevity
 
Personally Kohli is a lot more aesthetically pleasing to watch than Tendulkar.

I never enjoyed watching Sachin bat.

Sehwag, Azharuddin, Laxman were all a lot better to watch in the past. Even Dravid, he obv was slow, but when he did play shots, was great to watch.

And obv nowadays, Kohli, Rohit, much better to watch than mechanical little tendu.
 
TheSultan said:
Personally Kohli is a lot more aesthetically pleasing to watch than Tendulkar.

I never enjoyed watching Sachin bat.

Sehwag, Azharuddin, Laxman were all a lot better to watch in the past. Even Dravid, he obv was slow, but when he did play shots, was great to watch.

And obv nowadays, Kohli, Rohit, much better to watch than mechanical little tendu.
Click to expand...
That's an incorrect statement. But then no surprises,this can be expected from you.
 
Dr_Bassim said:
But I dont understand why Indian fans INSIST and FORCE people to accept Tendulkar's greatness on EVERYONE.
Click to expand...


why not! Sachin Tendulkar's legendary status is non-negotiable. His unparalleled achievements and contributions to cricket demand unconditional reverence.

Forcing others to acknowledge his greatness isn't optional; it's essential. Anything less would be a disservice to his iconic legacy.

Tendulkar's stature transcends debate, and his supremacy must be asserted.

No quarter should be given to those who refuse to recognize his greatness. Not an option.



@Hitman
 
uppercut said:
why not! Sachin Tendulkar's legendary status is non-negotiable. His unparalleled achievements and contributions to cricket demand unconditional reverence.

Forcing others to acknowledge his greatness isn't optional; it's essential. Anything less would be a disservice to his iconic legacy.

Tendulkar's stature transcends debate, and his supremacy must be asserted.

No quarter should be given to those who refuse to recognize his greatness. Not an option.



@Hitman
Click to expand...
Thanks for tagging me. What more needs to be said when the greatest batsman they have produced averages 29 against the best team of his time, the West Indies, and has 5 MOM awards in 124 Tests, when our own Sourav Ganguly has more MOM awards in fewer Tests.​
 
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No one is bigger than Sachin..end off discussion. Comparing him with any other player is non-negotiable for us. Players like Virat comes and goes.
 
cant compare the two as ODI's are a Completely different game now .... for instance Tendulkar played a lot of ODI Cricket with RED ball .... unthinkable now.
 
Only good Kohli inning after going out of form- MCG against PCT , Sachin was remarkable against Steyn in 2010, Kohli can only smack Rauf and Shaheen
 
The teams Sachin bashed vs Kohli there is no comparison.

Pak of Sachin’s era vs Pak of Kohli’s era
SA of Sachin’s era vs SA of Kohli’s era
SL/ Wi of Sachin’s era vs SL/Wi of Kohli’s era

Aus is subjective because they are still the top team of this era like last era but I would rate the previous Aus team much stronger.

Only England and Nzl have improved since. Sachin’s era
 
Following a record-extending 51st ODI century, India batting star Virat Kohli is being rated as the greatest one-day batter by former England captain Michael Atherton, he said:

“Virat Kohli in a run-chase in 50-over cricket, there’s been nobody better in the history of the game, really. 51 century is an unbelievable number,"

“I mean, he’s (Kohli) got 51 and he passed 14,000 runs, which only Tendulkar and Sangakkara have got past that mark in one-day cricket. And he got them in 60-odd innings quicker than Sachin, and I think about 90-odd innings quicker than Kumar. So, I mean, ODI is probably his best. You know, he’s been a great all-format player, clearly, but you’d probably say that ODI is his absolute best format,"
 
Cricket Warrior said:
Following a record-extending 51st ODI century, India batting star Virat Kohli is being rated as the greatest one-day batter by former England captain Michael Atherton, he said:

“Virat Kohli in a run-chase in 50-over cricket, there’s been nobody better in the history of the game, really. 51 century is an unbelievable number,"

“I mean, he’s (Kohli) got 51 and he passed 14,000 runs, which only Tendulkar and Sangakkara have got past that mark in one-day cricket. And he got them in 60-odd innings quicker than Sachin, and I think about 90-odd innings quicker than Kumar. So, I mean, ODI is probably his best. You know, he’s been a great all-format player, clearly, but you’d probably say that ODI is his absolute best format,"
Click to expand...
Poor from Athers. He himself was present during that era and he is still citing Kohli taking 60 innings lesser than Tendulkar to complete 14K ODI runs.

Would call it recency bias.
 

Ponting: 'Kohli the best 50-overs player I have ever seen'​

I haven't seen a better ODI player than Kohli, he can be the leading run-scorer: Ponting.

Dubai, Former Australian skipper Ricky Ponting said he has not seen a "better player" than Virat Kohli in ODIs, and backed the Indian batting star to go past legendary Sachin Tendulkar as the highest run-getter in the 50-over format.

Kohli made an exceptional unbeaten 100, his 51st in ODIs, to guide India to a six-wicket win over Pakistan in a Champions Trophy match here on Sunday.

"I don’t think I’ve ever seen a better 50-over player than Virat Kohli. Now that he's gone past me and only two ahead of him, I'm sure he would want to give himself the best chance to be remembered as the all-time leading run scorer in the game,” Ponting told ICC Review.

During the course of that hundred, Kohli went past the 14000-run mark in one-dayers, joining former Sri Lankan captain Kumar Sangakkara and Tendulkar in a rare club.

Kohli is still 4,341 runs behind Tendulkar and at 36, the champion batter has limited time in his hand to overhaul the latter’s mark.
But Ponting did not see it as an impossible task for Kohli.

"Obviously physical-wise, he’s probably as fit as he's ever been and works exceptionally hard on that side of his game. It’s crazy when you think about it, isn’t it? Just how good Virat’s been over such a long period of time, yet he’s still 4,000 runs behind Sachin.

"It just goes to show how good Sachin was, but also his longevity in the game. But with someone like Virat, you never write him off. If the hunger's still there, then I’m never going to write him off ,” he added.

Ponting said a match against Pakistan often brought the best in Kohli, and termed him as a big match player.

"Yeah, 2022 and now, he stood up against the team that he would probably steel himself the most to play against. When Pakistan had batted first on a tricky wicket, it needed someone at the top of the order to play a match-winning innings like that.

"Once again, it was Kohli to get the job done. He's been a champion player for a long, long time. And particularly in the white-ball formats, where he's been an unbelievably good 50-over player,” said the Aussie.

Ponting said Kohli’s hundred was the difference between India and Pakistan on that night.

"You look at the two scorecards, it’s one, Virat making a 100, and lots of Pakistan starts without anyone going on and making a big score.
https://www.hindustantimes.com/spor...ading-run-scorer-ponting-101740459295356.html
 
Peak Sachin Tendulkar always. However, Virat Kohli should not retire after this Champions Trophy. He can easily play another ODI World Cup. Rohit "fatty" Sharma, however, should be dropped after this tournament.
 
Mercurial said:
Peak Sachin Tendulkar always. However, Virat Kohli should not retire after this Champions Trophy. He can easily play another ODI World Cup. Rohit "fatty" Sharma, however, should be dropped after this tournament.
Click to expand...
No he cannot and shouldnt

First perform in Ko stages in semis and finals and help India win then we shall see

And yes Sachin is ahead of kohli in tests. Not odi
 
kron said:
No he cannot and shouldnt

First perform in Ko stages in semis and finals and help India win then we shall see

And yes Sachin is ahead of kohli in tests. Not odi
Click to expand...
Apologies Sachin is ahead in odi too
 
When Sachin paaji was playing, peak Abdul Razzaq was #4 fast bowler in the Pakistan playing XI after Wasim, Waqar, Shoaib. Read again, i said PEAK Abdul Razzaq who effortlessly bowled 140 kph, moved it in the air and off the pitch, bowled reverse swinging yorkers.

Today he would be front line pacer for most teams.

I rest my case.
 
I am screwed today. I didn't pick both Ibrahim and Root.
This Salt guy and Gurbaz disappointed for the second time.
 
Peak Kohli.

Never could SRT time a century to the final ball let alone win a match with a century!

Instead SRT waited for the perfect moment that never arrived, meanwhile Kohli plays for the moment.

Average Kohli is better than Peak SRT.
 
From thr 90's and after there has been only one batter better than Sachin, his name is Brian Charles Lara. Kohli is nowhere close.
 
Sachin takes both. He's better in odi and tests, However kohli > Sachin while chasing in odi.

Batting first Sachin remains ahead.
 
RidiculousMan said:
In ODIs Kohli is clear. Tendulkar was a softie in the format like Babar.
Click to expand...

3 man of the match awards in 5 WC matches ( including one for All round performance) and that epic phainta of Shoaib Actor say hello.

here is a stat to mull on .... Tendulkar made 76 runs in the other 2 matches where he did not win a MoM award. Guess how much Inzi made in all 4 WC matches combined vs Ind ? Just 61 runs at a avg of 15.25 and a whopping S/R of 50 that would make Misbah look like a gun ODI player ... This is the difference between the real match winner and the pretender lol

Its quite hilarious to see Pakistani's try to run down Tendulkar but the reality is that his record checks out from all aspects especially when it comes to big matches.

Link: Tendulkar vs Pak in WC
 
It’s crazy that despite all his achievements Sachin is still behind Inzimam when it comes to important matches (considering all 3 formats)… didn’t he start playing when he was like 16?
 
Let's put things into perspective and discuss why comparing across eras is dumb. Lets look at the playing conditions when Sachin started cricket.

When Sachin started ODIs were played with white clothing and red balls, average scoring rate was around 4, batting strike rates were between 60-70, average of ODI batters were under 40 and an economy rate of 5 runs per over was considered expensive. When Navjot Siddhu scored his 4th ODI hundred in 1993/94 (I think that was the year) it was the highest by an Indian in ODIs. Desmond Haynes's 17 hundreds was the world record in ODIs and 220 was a match winning total at most times. 300+ scores were rare and India's first such score came in 1996 in Sharjah.

There were no two new balls and boundaries other than NZ grounds were big and six hitting was difficult. Bowlers could reverse the ball after 35-40 overs and the white ball sometimes was impossible to see in the final overs and had to be changed most often because of that. There were no bouncer rules, there were no free hits, no ball +4 wasn't 5 runs. I can keep adding more and more in terms of how rules have changed. There was no DRS as well.

Now lets look at the current era, any tom dick and harry can average 50+ in ODIs. We have 58-63 meters boundaries where ever top edges go for 6. There are two new balls and reverse swing is almost gone. Scoring rates are 6-7 per over, every team can score 300+ easily. An economy of 6 is considered okay. World record for most hundreds in ODIs was 49 before Virat broke it. There are many batters who had scored 20+ ODI hundreds from various teams.

Now how do you compare batters playing in these two different eras? Can we guarantee, Virat would have averaged 58 if he had debuted in 1989 playing ODIs in white clothing and red ball? Or can you say Sachin would not have averaged 58 in this era and wouldn't have scored at a higher pace?

This is why comparing eras is stupid. The conditions are never the same, Sachin in the era he played was a great. His batting average was at least 10-15 points higher than the top 6 batter average in the 90's and his SR was at least 16-17 higher than the average SR's of top 6 batters of the 90's. That's all you can compare any batter against. You cannot say Dean Jones is inferior to Ponting because he struck only at 72. Dean was product of his generation and while there were some exceptions to that rule like Zaheer Abbas, Viv Richards etc, everyone who played in that era had a SR of 65-72 and it was considered good. Can we say Shubman Gill who averages 58 at a SR of 100 is a better batter than Viv or Zaheer? You cannot as comparisons cannot be made like that. Zaheer Abbas and Viv were great of that generation as they were way ahead of their peers in terms of average and SR. Same with Sachin as even the greats of his time like Anwar and Lara struck 6-7 points lower than Sachin in ODIs and averaged almost 5 points lower.

That is the only comparison we can make. When there has been so many changes to the rules and playing conditions we cannot make a blanket statement and say that a player from 70's is worse than someone playing now. The only thing which matters is what they have done for the game in your country and how it has inspired future generations. People say Bumrah is better than Kapil but again the contributions of the latter cannot be taken lightly. Kapil came into the indian team when spinners were opening the bowling attack for India and Karsan Ghavri was filling in as a pacer/spinner. Kapil inspired an entire generation of fast bowlers. Sachin and Gavaskar inspired an entire generation of batters. The same thing Virat and Bumrah will do and so will Rohit, Shami, Kuldeep etc. No one cares if they are better than Bedi or Sachin etc.

Comparison across eras is absolutely dumb, it can never be qualitative and only bring about favoritism etc.
 
Suleiman said:
It’s crazy that despite all his achievements Sachin is still behind Inzimam when it comes to important matches (considering all 3 formats)… didn’t he start playing when he was like 16?
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Please what important matches? Just 1992 WC? After that what? Did Inzimam not fail in ever ICC game he played against India while Sachin scored in most of them?
 
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