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[PICTURES] For those who hail Jasprit Bumrah, must acknowledge the greatness of the Real Head of the Table (Imran Khan)

The Bald Eagle said:
@Ab Fan I like your discourse, because atleast unlike other posters you come up with stats and logic to get your point across. But thankfully, your little question made me do a search for detail stats that hilariously debunk your argument


Bumrah's average against all teams in Test is below. And as in IK's time there wasn't any SENA but ENA. So his avg against ENA is 28.25. Ang against NZ it is awful. While Imran's avg is 25.19 against ENA
View attachment 150395

View attachment 150394
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Good effort in posting the correct images but unfortunately, your numbers and your argument in response to this are incorrect. Bumrah’s Test bowling average against England, New Zealand, and Australia (ENA) is 21, not 28. Meanwhile, Imran Khan’s average against ENA is indeed 25.

So instead of hilariously debunking anything, you have actually made an error in your own argument. If you’re going to make bold claims, at least post accurate facts. Otherwise, it just weakens your credibility.
 
Are you sure, @Ab Fan ? 21??? Would love to see from where you get those stats
Screenshot_20250203-200844.jpg
Ab Fan said:
Good effort in posting the correct images but unfortunately, your numbers and your argument in response to this are incorrect. Bumrah’s Test bowling average against England, New Zealand, and Australia (ENA) is 21, not 28. Meanwhile, Imran Khan’s average against ENA is indeed 25.

So instead of hilariously debunking anything, you have actually made an error in your own argument. If you’re going to make bold claims, at least post accurate facts. Otherwise, it just weakens your credibility.
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Away Record : Wasim Akram - 260 Wickets @24.44, Waqar Younis - 211 Wickets @26.06, Imran Khan - 199 Wickets @25.76, Jasprit Bumrah - 158 Wickets @20.05 - Bumrah is better than Wasim, Waqar and Imran. I want Bumrah to take 200 Away Wickets and 100 Home Wickets with Good Average to close the debate who is the best bowler from Sub-Continent.
 
Van_Sri said:
Away Record : Wasim Akram - 260 Wickets @24.44, Waqar Younis - 211 Wickets @26.06, Imran Khan - 199 Wickets @25.76, Jasprit Bumrah - 158 Wickets @20.05 - Bumrah is better than Wasim, Waqar and Imran. I want Bumrah to take 200 Away Wickets and 100 Home Wickets with Good Average to close the debate who is the best bowler from Sub-Continent.
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Nice, wish him luck but in old times, there weren't weak sides like WI and SL of today and BD to reduce the away average significantly and bag easy away wickets
 
The Bald Eagle said:
Nice, wish him luck but in old times, there weren't weak sides like WI and SL of today and BD to reduce the away average significantly and bag easy away wickets
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He is doing better than Wasim, Waqar and Imran in Australia 🇦🇺 but he needs 2-3 good years more to be in conversation with Big 3 of Pakistan
 
With factual analysis, I have debunked all arguments of brother @The Bald Eagle and he has only two choice now:

1) Either accept the reality that Bumrah is all set to surpass Imran as best Asian fast bowler.

2) Behave like a troll and post incorrect facts and arguments which he seems to be doing throughout.

I think I probably know which one he will choose.

:kp :ab :inti
 
Ab Fan said:
Why? Can’t you see yourself?

Why are you attaching country wise average here? You mentioned ENA.

Bumrah - 21.33
Imran - 25.56

stats.espncricinfo.com

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com stats.espncricinfo.com

———Your argument hilariously debunked lol ———
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The above stat source is same, so ESPNcricinfo must be mistaken in either your or my case.

www.espncricinfo.com

Jasprit Bumrah batting bowling stats, averages and cricket statistics, 2025

Find out the complete career history of Jasprit Bumrah including highest scores, centuries, half centuries, wickets and more
www.espncricinfo.com www.espncricinfo.com
 
The Bald Eagle said:
The above stat source is same, so ESPNcricinfo must be mistaken in either your or my case.
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It’s not ESPN, you are the one who read it mistakenly because you are not combining the numbers against the three nations but instead showing split. :kp :inti
 
I will personally rate Bumrah better than Wasim, Waqar and Imran if he takes 300 Test Wickets - 200 Away Wickets and 100 Home Wickets at an Average below 22
 
The Bald Eagle said:
I know brother gazza, but for the past 6 months. Indians have been praising Bumrah day and night. Even ICC is hell bent to give him all the cricketer of the years accolade. But hopefully after seeing these stats comparison they won't make the claim for Bumrah to be the ATG.

PS: I believe Bumrah is a great bowler but NOT the best at all....
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Let them have their moment. Happens in Cricket. Bumrah was really exceptional in 2024
 
Ab Fan said:
It is very unlikely that he will maintain that average of 19 with 350 wickets.

But 350 wickets at 21-22 won’t put him above McGrath and Hadlee either.

I think he will likely pick 80-100 more and there will be some decline too. Probably somewhere between 280-320 wickets at avg of 21-22.

That would include the output of 200+ away wickets at 22-23 and will put him above Imran Khan as a test bowler.

Imran’s 362 wickets constitutes 199 wickets away from home at 25.76.

So, unless Bumrah has a major decline in his next 3-4 years or 20 tests, he should go past Imran as a test bowler.
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He definitely has potential. Don't think we'll see a massive decline like Kohli unless he gets injured too much.
 
The Bald Eagle said:
Lol...you are fooling yourself, Bumrah has played 32 matches overall in all away venues yet. While your source showing it as against ENA lone. Lol...don't know who will ran away now
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The Bald Eagle said:
Bumrah's average against all teams in Test is below. And as in IK's time there wasn't any SENA but ENA. So his avg against ENA is 28.25. Ang against NZ it is awful. While Imran's avg is 25.19 against ENA
View attachment 150395

View attachment 150394
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This is what you said. Bumrah’s avg against ENA is 28. You didn’t showed any evidence for that.

Now, when I showed you evidence with the link attached , you are bringing away matches. Do you even know what you are posting?

Eagle buddy, seems like age is catching you up. Getting bald and confused too :kp :inti
 
The Bald Eagle said:
Lol...you are fooling yourself, Bumrah has played 32 matches overall in all away venues yet. While your source showing it as against ENA lone. Lol...don't know who will ran away now
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You asked for AVG vs ENA in your post # 80. It did not specify away or home. So @Ab Fan and me have posted the correct stat for ENA
 
uppercut said:
You asked for AVG vs ENA in your post # 80. It did not specify away or home. So @Ab Fan and me have posted the correct stat for ENA
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The difference is even bigger when we look away from home vs ENA.

stats.espncricinfo.com

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com stats.espncricinfo.com

Bumrah - Avg 20
Imran - Avg 26

Bumrah is simply operating at a different level to Imran ever did away from home. Imran can make a claim as all rounder which obviously no Indian fan is denying but as a bowler purely, Bumrah just needs to make sure he doesn’t have a huge decline and he will go past Imran.
 
Ab Fan said:
The difference is even bigger when we look away from home vs ENA.

stats.espncricinfo.com

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com stats.espncricinfo.com

Bumrah - Avg 20
Imran - Avg 26

Bumrah is simply operating at a different level to Imran ever did away from home. Imran can make a claim as all rounder which obviously no Indian fan is denying but as a bowler purely, Bumrah just needs to make sure he doesn’t have a huge decline and he will go past Imran.
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I think what he did was added the 3 avgs for ENA and divided it by 3 :ROFLMAO:
 
uppercut said:
I think what he did was added the 3 avgs for ENA and divided it by 3 :ROFLMAO:
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Probably true :))

Why did he left West Indies for Imran though? They were the best team of that era and Imran did well against them. He also left SA for Bumrah which doesn’t make sense.
 
Ab Fan said:
Probably true :))

Why did he left West Indies for Imran though? They were the best team of that era and Imran did well against them. He also left SA for Bumrah which doesn’t make sense.
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Its called Cherry picking to peddle his agenda. Pakistanis get very sensitive when discussing phaasht bowlers... especially if its a Indian ... thats why the need to somehow put you down. How dare you daal and rice eating nobody even dare to talk about phaasht bowling that requires red meat... thats the mentality

:ROFLMAO:
 
Ab Fan said:
Probably true :))

Why did he left West Indies for Imran though? They were the best team of that era and Imran did well against them. He also left SA for Bumrah which doesn’t make sense.
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Lol...Ab it seems like AB devillier you are looking for a comeback from retirement. Lol can't school you in math today. But classes will resume tomorrow.

Lol what else do you expect, three countries (ENA) so you expect me to divide it be 4 or 3 and I challenge you to bring the stats of ENA with mention of each countries and their avg for everyone to see. I have already done that. And 28 is indeed his overall avg against SENA. And by no means his avg is 21 lol, even on away venues.Happy dreams or nightmare my friend.
The Bald Eagle said:
@Ab Fan I like your discourse, because atleast unlike other posters you come up with stats and logic to get your point across. But thankfully, your little question made me do a search for detail stats that hilariously debunk your argument


Bumrah's average against all teams in Test is below. And as in IK's time there wasn't any SENA but ENA. So his avg against ENA is 28.25. Ang against NZ it is awful. While Imran's avg is 25.19 against ENA
View attachment 150395

View attachment 150394
Click to expand...
 
The Bald Eagle said:
Lol...Ab it seems like AB devillier you are looking for a comeback from retirement. Lol can't school you in math today. But classes will resume tomorrow.

Lol what else do you expect, three countries (ENA) so you expect me to divide it be 4 or 3 and I challenge you to bring the stats of ENA with mention of each countries and their avg for everyone to see. I have already done that. And 28 is indeed his overall avg against SENA. And by no means his avg is 21 lol, even on away venues.Happy dreams or nightmare my friend.
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Nope. This is SENA and Bumrah away avg = 20.39 not 28 lol

stats.espncricinfo.com

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com stats.espncricinfo.com


You might want to first decide on whether you want to filtet by ENA MENA SENA DIGA and home or away 🤣
 
We will give Imran the ula fala. But then tell us where does Malcolm Marshall sit?

In a booth?
At the bar?

Or.....at the head of the table????
 
The amazing IK career was in 3 stages. A young man that was raw and became decent, then the competition of World Series spurred him to match the best of the time in the late 70s. Then a change of action and becoming an amazing bowler that lasted 3 years and then at his peak he lost the best part of 3 years. That IK was a freak of nature, seriously quick and swinging the ball like a banana. This IK destroyed both Ind and Australia at home, came within a David Constant decision or 2 from beating England at away. Then the final stage was the comeback against SL at home in 85, which culminated in series victory in England with IK taking 10 at Headingly and a drawn series in the Windies, where he took over over wickets and again within a David Archer decision of beaten the unbeatable Windies team.
The other thing that Bumrah has in his favour is DRS because IK was an inswing bowler and umpires generally didn't give people out on the front foot.
 
Bewal Express said:
The amazing IK career was in 3 stages. A young man that was raw and became decent, then the competition of World Series spurred him to match the best of the time in the late 70s. Then a change of action and becoming an amazing bowler that lasted 3 years and then at his peak he lost the best part of 3 years. That IK was a freak of nature, seriously quick and swinging the ball like a banana. This IK destroyed both Ind and Australia at home, came within a David Constant decision or 2 from beating England at away. Then the final stage was the comeback against SL at home in 85, which culminated in series victory in England with IK taking 10 at Headingly and a drawn series in the Windies, where he took over over wickets and again within a David Archer decision of beaten the unbeatable Windies team.
The other thing that Bumrah has in his favour is DRS because IK was an inswing bowler and umpires generally didn't give people out on the front foot.
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Imran Khan was a proper legend but he now stands in the shadows of the new bowling King 🔥


image (1).jpg
 
Bewal Express said:
The amazing IK career was in 3 stages. A young man that was raw and became decent, then the competition of World Series spurred him to match the best of the time in the late 70s. Then a change of action and becoming an amazing bowler that lasted 3 years and then at his peak he lost the best part of 3 years. That IK was a freak of nature, seriously quick and swinging the ball like a banana. This IK destroyed both Ind and Australia at home, came within a David Constant decision or 2 from beating England at away. Then the final stage was the comeback against SL at home in 85, which culminated in series victory in England with IK taking 10 at Headingly and a drawn series in the Windies, where he took over over wickets and again within a David Archer decision of beaten the unbeatable Windies team.
The other thing that Bumrah has in his favour is DRS because IK was an inswing bowler and umpires generally didn't give people out on the front foot.
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See post# 60 which explains why.
 
Bewal Express said:
Does it explain how he managed to do it for both new and old ball?
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uppercut said:
Do the stats give breakup of wkts by new/old ball ?
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actually lets say that just a very small fraction of his wkts like less than 10% of wkts were due to tampering. So thats 36 wkts.

Therefore if we exclude those 36 wkts his avg goes above 25 ! (362-36) = 326/8258 = 25.33

BTW this does not account for the runs he would have conceded ( which would further drop his avg) if not for the illegal methods used to get well set batsmen out.
 
Imran khan won’t make top 10 test bowlers getout of ur delusion.
Bumrah>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>imran. How many series imran won in Australia?

Bumram>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>imran+wasim(test)
 
Imran’s away record at his prime between 1980-1988 was great and hence I do rate him a top 10( or probably top 8) fast bowler of all time in Tests. But if you compare with Hadlee and Marshall from his era, he sits well behind both in terms of away performance.

In terms of peak home performance, he is above both and there is a home away disparity which is why it is a legitimate question as to how did Imran manage to weave this level of magic at home especially on those flat decks.

In case of Waqar, the disparity is even bigger between home and away and even home performance also at his peak(till 1994) and post that. Hence, he will fall simply nowhere in my top 15 fast bowlers of all time.

I will rate Imran and Wasim among my top 10 fast bowler of all time. Bumrah’s career is not over but he is almost a certain to be in top 10 too and if he can maintain the quality for 2-3 years more, he is in strong contention for top 5 spot.
 
Golu-momin said:
Imran khan won’t make top 10 test bowlers getout of ur delusion.
Bumrah>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>imran. How many series imran won in Australia?

Bumram>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>imran+wasim(test)
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India won series in Australia because Australia at that time were in a bit of a transition phase. Same India got demolished in the recent BGT.

Bumrah should get tested first. His records should have an asterisk mark till he gets tested.
 
sweep_shot said:
India won series in Australia because Australia at that time were in a bit of a transition phase. Same India got demolished in the recent BGT.

Bumrah should get tested first. His records should have an asterisk mark till he gets tested.
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Tested for nandrolone?
 
sweep_shot said:
To see if he is chucking or not.

If his action is clean, why can't he be tested? What are Indians afraid of?

:qdkcheeky
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Oh, I get it. For a second I thought you were referring to nandrolone like a certain couple of Pakistani bowlers back in 2006/07.

Coming to the point, a bowler is tested when an on field umpire has doubts over his actions, not when losers from Pakistan and Bangladesh want. The day some umpire has doubt over the legitimacy over his action, he will be tested. Until then, losers from Pakistan and Bangladesh can keep crying 24/7.

'Boohoooooooooooooo!' :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:​
 
Bumrah is the best bowler against Top 7 batters in the history of Test cricket as far as ball by ball data is concerned.

For a minimum of 200 wickets, that is.

Has not had the longevity of McGrath, Marshall, Ambrose but his record against Top 7 batters is even better than those guys let alone Pakistani bowlers.

As an Indian cricket fan, I consider McGrath the GOAT because longevity does matter to me.

But for Pakistanis who have long argued that peak performances matter more, they should have no issues considering him in the conversation for GOAT Test bowlers.
 
uppercut said:
actually lets say that just a very small fraction of his wkts like less than 10% of wkts were due to tampering. So thats 36 wkts.

Therefore if we exclude those 36 wkts his avg goes above 25 ! (362-36) = 326/8258 = 25.33

BTW this does not account for the runs he would have conceded ( which would further drop his avg) if not for the illegal methods used to get well set batsmen out.
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What proof have you got that he tampered with the ball in matches. You need to actually understand the reference before you use it in many matches. Tendulkar was done in matches.🤣🤣🥰
 
Ab Fan said:
Imran’s away record at his prime between 1980-1988 was great and hence I do rate him a top 10( or probably top 8) fast bowler of all time in Tests. But if you compare with Hadlee and Marshall from his era, he sits well behind both in terms of away performance.

In terms of peak home performance, he is above both and there is a home away disparity which is why it is a legitimate question as to how did Imran manage to weave this level of magic at home especially on those flat decks.

In case of Waqar, the disparity is even bigger between home and away and even home performance also at his peak(till 1994) and post that. Hence, he will fall simply nowhere in my top 15 fast bowlers of all time.

I will rate Imran and Wasim among my top 10 fast bowler of all time. Bumrah’s career is not over but he is almost a certain to be in top 10 too and if he can maintain the quality for 2-3 years more, he is in strong contention for top 5 spot.
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Look at his Windies demolition in 1986 and you will see why. If it doesn't shout out at you. Let me know
 
Bewal Express said:
What proof have you got that he tampered with the ball in matches. You need to actually understand the reference before you use it in many matches. Tendulkar was done in matches.🤣🤣🥰
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Bhai, he himself confessed in his own words in his autobiography that he used to regularly tamper with the ball and even used bottle caps.
 
Hitman said:
Bhai, he himself confessed in his own words in his autobiography that he used to regularly tamper with the ball and even used bottle caps.
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I haven't seen that. Can you give me a reference. But what do you make of this from SRT
 
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Nikhil_cric said:
Bumrah is the best bowler against Top 7 batters in the history of Test cricket as far as ball by ball data is concerned.

For a minimum of 200 wickets, that is.

Has not had the longevity of McGrath, Marshall, Ambrose but his record against Top 7 batters is even better than those guys let alone Pakistani bowlers.

As an Indian cricket fan, I consider McGrath the GOAT because longevity does matter to me.

But for Pakistanis who have long argued that peak performances matter more, they should have no issues considering him in the conversation for GOAT Test bowlers.
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List those 'top 7 batters in the history of test cricket' please. :inti
 
Indians are right.

There was no Pakistani great ever. Everyone cheated. India would have won more matches in 80s and 90s but they played the game fairly unlike other teams.

Tendulkar would have beaten Bradmans average but his overuse of his right arm gave him tennis elbow.

Taj Mahal was a temple before mughals.

Blah blah blah.
 
DeadlyVenom said:
Indians are right.

There was no Pakistani great ever. Everyone cheated. India would have won more matches in 80s and 90s but they played the game fairly unlike other teams.

Tendulkar would have beaten Bradmans average but his overuse of his right arm gave him tennis elbow.

Taj Mahal was a temple before mughals.

Blah blah blah.
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Most of the Pakistani’s were once upon a time Hindus bro. They got converted by force. Imran, Wasim and Waqar are Great Bowlers from Sub-Continent. Stats don’t tell the truth all the time. I know in 90s Indian Cricket fans used to be scared of Pakistan Bowling lineup when they play India - Shoaib, Wasim, Waqar, Razzaq, Azhar, Saqlain they used to rule Sharjah but their biggest blow came in 1999 World Cup Finals and they never recovered.
 
People who are talking about lack of better batsmen in modern era is forgetting the fact that bowlers used to bowl in uncovered and dangerous pitches in 90% of the games back then. That is why batsmen could never play shots that they do now. It is a simple modernization of the game courtesy big bats, small boundaries and advent of other shorter formats. If anything, fast bowling is tougher in modern era.
 
Van_Sri said:
Most of the Pakistani’s were once upon a time Hindus bro. They got converted by force. Imran, Wasim and Waqar are Great Bowlers from Sub-Continent. Stats don’t tell the truth all the time. I know in 90s Indian Cricket fans used to be scared of Pakistan Bowling lineup when they play India - Shoaib, Wasim, Waqar, Razzaq, Azhar, Saqlain they used to rule Sharjah but their biggest blow came in 1999 World Cup Finals and they never recovered.
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Correction, no Indians were scared of Waqar..

Matter of fact they looked forward to beating his rear end into the next galaxy...
 
Romali_rotti said:
Correction, no Indians were scared of Waqar..

Matter of fact they looked forward to beating his rear end into the next galaxy...
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In Sharjah from 1984 to 2000 Pakistan defeated India 18 times and India managed to defeat them only 6 times. India somehow managed to defeat them in World Cups but they were really strong in 90s. Once Ganguly became Captain and Jagmohan Dalmiya became ICC Chief things started getting better for India as more money was spent on developing good cricketers. Pakistan has Raw Talent but due to Corrupted PCB right talent is not playing for Pakistan with a good leadership.
 
Romali_rotti said:
Correction, no Indians were scared of Waqar..

Matter of fact they looked forward to beating his rear end into the next galaxy...
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Due to tensions between India and Pakistan, India Batsman did not face Waqar in his prime - 1990 to 1994 India avoided lot of heart breaks
 
Van_Sri said:
Due to tensions between India and Pakistan, India Batsman did not face Waqar in his prime - 1990 to 1994 India avoided lot of heart breaks
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Nahh not really, this is what waqar did to Brian Lara after the beating he took from Jadeja, he was just as good like the 90-94.



Waqar wouldve been owned at all times by India.
 
Bewal Express said:
The amazing IK career was in 3 stages. A young man that was raw and became decent, then the competition of World Series spurred him to match the best of the time in the late 70s. Then a change of action and becoming an amazing bowler that lasted 3 years and then at his peak he lost the best part of 3 years. That IK was a freak of nature, seriously quick and swinging the ball like a banana. This IK destroyed both Ind and Australia at home, came within a David Constant decision or 2 from beating England at away. Then the final stage was the comeback against SL at home in 85, which culminated in series victory in England with IK taking 10 at Headingly and a drawn series in the Windies, where he took over over wickets and again within a David Archer decision of beaten the unbeatable Windies team.
The other thing that Bumrah has in his favour is DRS because IK was an inswing bowler and umpires generally didn't give people out on the front foot.
Click to expand...
Great insights 👍
 
Rajdeep said:
People who are talking about lack of better batsmen in modern era is forgetting the fact that bowlers used to bowl in uncovered and dangerous pitches in 90% of the games back then. That is why batsmen could never play shots that they do now. It is a simple modernization of the game courtesy big bats, small boundaries and advent of other shorter formats. If anything, fast bowling is tougher in modern era.
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Which era are you talking about. Not the 70s onwards
 
Rajdeep said:
People who are talking about lack of better batsmen in modern era is forgetting the fact that bowlers used to bowl in uncovered and dangerous pitches in 90% of the games back then. That is why batsmen could never play shots that they do now. It is a simple modernization of the game courtesy big bats, small boundaries and advent of other shorter formats. If anything, fast bowling is tougher in modern era.
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In test cricket? No it isn't.

You're referring to viv's era. The 1990's era in test cricket was easier then today's era.

Odi was harder in 1990's.
 
mominsaigol said:
In test cricket? No it isn't.

You're referring to viv's era. The 1990's era in test cricket was easier then today's era.

Odi was harder in 1990's.
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Imran was not 90s cricketer. His prime was in mid-end1970s till mid 80s when pitches were uncovered, bats used to be like hockey sticks and batsmen were without helmets. Add to it lack of camera's to caught ball tampering, test cricket back then was heavily tilted towards bowlers. That is why coaches used to teach young batters to keep the head steady, go to the line of the ball with weight going forward etc to counter bowling and exxeggerated swing in that era.

Game has modernized and now it is heavily tilted towards batsmen. Sure most batsmen no longer have copy book technique as it is not required in modern era. What Bumrah is doing in such era and that too across all formats is mindblowing. He is easily the best fast from Asian subcontinent, we all know it. However that is not to disrespect any ATG bowlers from yester years. It is simply OPs insecurity that is making people engage in this meaningless discussion. The other day he also posted a random video of Pat Cummins where he is saying Shaheen Afridi is better bowler that Bumrah and was flaunting it. ICC cricketer of the year award has devastated OP and he is now acting desperate to bring Bumrah down.
 
Rajdeep said:
Imran was not 90s cricketer. His prime was in mid-end1970s till mid 80s when pitches were uncovered, bats used to be like hockey sticks and batsmen were without helmets. Add to it lack of camera's to caught ball tampering, test cricket back then was heavily tilted towards bowlers. That is why coaches used to teach young batters to keep the head steady, go to the line of the ball with weight going forward etc to counter bowling and exxeggerated swing in that era.

Game has modernized and now it is heavily tilted towards batsmen. Sure most batsmen no longer have copy book technique as it is not required in modern era. What Bumrah is doing in such era and that too across all formats is mindblowing. He is easily the best fast from Asian subcontinent, we all know it. However that is not to respect any ATG bowlers from yester years. It is simply OPs insecurity that is making people engage in this meaningless discussion. The other day he also posted a random video of Pat Cummins where he is saying Shaheen Afridi is better bowler that Bumrah and was flaunting it. ICC cricketer of the year award has devastated OP and he is now acting desperate to bring Bumrah down.
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^^ Bro this is an excellent post and response?

I disagree with all parts but this is an excellent response.

Why can't you give me such responses when we discuss? Where was this before? Why was i previously dealing with nonsense such as

Rajdeep says this and that?

Anyway good response.
 
@Rajdeep some exciting comments in this thread

* Imran Khan used to hunt on tail enders
* He was a bottle cap opener
* Pitches and players were less aggressive then
* Imran conflated his figures due to umpires in Pakistan
* He wasn't best at 4th Innings
* 10 percent of his wickets were result of ball tempering.

Lol...shows very well the desperation :kp
 
Imran Khan was a great allrounder and maybe his wickets are not scrutinized as much as say Waqar Younis’s but he was a huge beneficiary of no cameras and no neutral umpires. Maybe he himself saw that would tarnish his legacy somewhat to push for neutral umpires .

Bumrah has done it a much higher level in a much more competitive era with technology, cameras, smaller boundaries, bigger bats.

Cant compare bowlers across eras but I rate Bumrah much higher. Infact I rate Wasim and Waqar over Imran for the era they bowled in
 
Local.Dada said:
Imran Khan was a great allrounder and maybe his wickets are not scrutinized as much as say Waqar Younis’s but he was a huge beneficiary of no cameras and no neutral umpires. Maybe he himself saw that would tarnish his legacy somewhat to push for neutral umpires .

Bumrah has done it a much higher level in a much more competitive era with technology, cameras, smaller boundaries, bigger bats.

Cant compare bowlers across eras but I rate Bumrah much higher. Infact I rate Wasim and Waqar over Imran for the era they bowled in
Click to expand...
www.espncricinfo.com

Neutral umpires

They made their first appearance when a Pakistan captain invited two Indian umpires to stand in a Test against West Indies
www.espncricinfo.com www.espncricinfo.com
 
The Bald Eagle said:
www.espncricinfo.com

Neutral umpires

They made their first appearance when a Pakistan captain invited two Indian umpires to stand in a Test against West Indies
www.espncricinfo.com www.espncricinfo.com
Click to expand...
And with neutral umpires a weak Indian team with 16 year old Sachin managed to draw a series vs Imran, Wasim, Waqar, Qadir. Better Indian teams used to get owned.

As I said nothing to take away from IK but the “banana reverse swing” and “bottle caps” were always a topic in the mix.

2 Ws did it with modern tech and neutral umpires and clearly to anyone who understood cricket Wasim was leagues ahead than others so he gets relatively more respect than Waqar.
 
The Bald Eagle said:
@Rajdeep some exciting comments in this thread

* Imran Khan used to hunt on tail enders
* He was a bottle cap opener
* Pitches and players were less aggressive then
* Imran conflated his figures due to umpires in Pakistan
* He wasn't best at 4th Innings
* 10 percent of his wickets were result of ball tempering.

Lol...shows very well the desperation :kp
Click to expand...
And what are your excuses?

Isn't it the one you've stated a few times about the standard of batting being substantially poor in comparison to the 80's due to which Bumrah's wicket's don't carry as much worth as those of our tiger IK? Right?
 
Azaad said:
And what are your excuses?

Isn't it the one you've stated a few times about the standard of batting being substantially poor in comparison to the 80's due to which Bumrah's wicket's don't carry as much worth as those of our tiger IK? Right?
Click to expand...
I certainly say one thing with conviction, batters were more technically savvy and gifted back then. And I hardly think any neutral cricket fan could disagree on that.

Don't like to mudsling on Bumrah unless some troll posts make me to
 
I remember this post from
Long time back which made a lot of sense: I think Pakistanis think Imran Khan was some 200sr batsman and 160 clicks bowler:

From what I have seen, Imran was a compact batsman kind of like Misbah. He had a solid defense and could block good deliveries, was limited with strokeplay but could unleash a big booming 6 vs medium pacers and spinners. I think Misbah is IK’s cousin too correct me if I am wrong but very similar batting method.

As a bowler IK was a 135-140 clicks bowler with skills kind of like Bhuvaneshwar Kumar. He could bowl with new and old ball ( which is legendary and sponsored by Pepsi of course :) )

A great allrounder of the game and probably top 5 allrounders of all time.

However I can understand if cricket begins and ends with him for some fans. We see such fanatic fans of players in India too for Dhoni, Sachin, Virat.

However Imran being presentable, can speak English, was in page 3 tabloids and was a great cricketer probably adds aura to that package for Pak cricket fans. I understand.
 
Local.Dada said:
I remember this post from
Long time back which made a lot of sense: I think Pakistanis think Imran Khan was some 200sr batsman and 160 clicks bowler:

From what I have seen, Imran was a compact batsman kind of like Misbah. He had a solid defense and could block good deliveries, was limited with strokeplay but could unleash a big booming 6 vs medium pacers and spinners. I think Misbah is IK’s cousin too correct me if I am wrong but very similar batting method.

As a bowler IK was a 135-140 clicks bowler with skills kind of like Bhuvaneshwar Kumar. He could bowl with new and old ball ( which is legendary and sponsored by Pepsi of course :) )

A great allrounder of the game and probably top 5 allrounders of all time.

However I can understand if cricket begins and ends with him for some fans. We see such fanatic fans of players in India too for Dhoni, Sachin, Virat.

However Imran being presentable, can speak English, was in page 3 tabloids and was a great cricketer probably adds aura to that package for Pak cricket fans. I understand.
Click to expand...
Dhoni isn't even in boot licking distance of Imran. He himself is a garbage t20 and bang avg test cricketer. He's good in odi but his 50 avg is inflated due to multiple not outs and he was bang avg overseas. Only good in Asian conditons. Dhoni also had a much better team then Imran did.

As for Virat, Virat let himself go. He's an atg due to odi exploits but he will always be remembered as the guy who botched his test career. Steve smith has had a career resurgence after just 1.5 hears of poor form while kohli became a clown in test cricket at age 30-31.

As for Sachin, Indians overrate him. Batting isn't the only thing that determines a cricketers greatness. Sachin is a goat batter and the best odi + test batter of his era however he

A) Never won India a world cup during his entire 24 year long reign. In 2011 minus Pakistan, the only other 2 games he performed in, India lost and the other was a tie. The entire team even stated they wanted to win for Sachin rather then Sachin winning it for them. Truth is he wasn't needed besides Pakistan game. And Asia cup exit in 2012 was caused by him. His final century is awful.

B) As a captain he led India into ruin, probably the top 5 worst captains of all time. He himself admitted that he wasn't a leader or a mentor to anyone, just an inspiration from a batting perspective.

Ik is a top quality bowler, it's an insult to compare bhuvi to him and anyone who makes that comparison is clueless about cricket or an Indian. A top class captain and very handy qith the bat.

Remove all this pr nonsense and you'd realise that kapil dev and imran Khan are their countries respective 2 greatest cricketers ever.

Sachin, Kohli, and Dhoni are social media, pr and bollywood hype, their excellent cricketers no doubt but not what you guys have perceived them to be qith your bollywood antics
 
The Bald Eagle said:
I certainly say one thing with conviction, batters were more technically savvy and gifted back then. And I hardly think any neutral cricket fan could disagree on that.

Don't like to mudsling on Bumrah unless some troll posts make me to
Click to expand...
How can you say that with a straight face? In this day n age of mental health coaches, video analysis, numerous camera angles, top-notch tech & analysis equipment not to mention the emergence of AI -- you really think the cricketers nowadays are any less skilled or 'technically savvy' (as you put it) than their counterparts in the 80s or 90s?

And talking about saying things with conviction - one thing we can all agree with conviction is that ball tampering was rampant in the IK era and the unbridled support from home umpires as well (which that amazing poster known as Buffet has clearly shown statistically several times in his posts) - should that not discount IK's achievements in comparison to those from Bumrah?

Be fair dude!
 
Rajdeep said:
People who are talking about lack of better batsmen in modern era is forgetting the fact that bowlers used to bowl in uncovered and dangerous pitches in 90% of the games back then. That is why batsmen could never play shots that they do now. It is a simple modernization of the game courtesy big bats, small boundaries and advent of other shorter formats. If anything, fast bowling is tougher in modern era.
Click to expand...
Which era are you talking about. Not the 70s onwards
Rajdeep said:
Imran was not 90s cricketer. His prime was in mid-end1970s till mid 80s when pitches were uncovered, bats used to be like hockey sticks and batsmen were without helmets. Add to it lack of camera's to caught ball tampering, test cricket back then was heavily tilted towards bowlers. That is why coaches used to teach young batters to keep the head steady, go to the line of the ball with weight going forward etc to counter bowling and exxeggerated swing in that era.

Game has modernized and now it is heavily tilted towards batsmen. Sure most batsmen no longer have copy book technique as it is not required in modern era. What Bumrah is doing in such era and that too across all formats is mindblowing. He is easily the best fast from Asian subcontinent, we all know it. However that is not to disrespect any ATG bowlers from yester years. It is simply OPs insecurity that is making people engage in this meaningless discussion. The other day he also posted a random video of Pat Cummins where he is saying Shaheen Afridi is better bowler that Bumrah and was flaunting it. ICC cricketer of the year award has devastated OP and he is now acting desperate to bring Bumrah down.
Click to expand...
Pitches weren't uncovered. Look it up
 
Azaad said:
How can you say that with a straight face? In this day n age of mental health coaches, video analysis, numerous camera angles, top-notch tech & analysis equipment not to mention the emergence of AI -- you really think the cricketers nowadays are any less skilled or 'technically savvy' (as you put it) than their counterparts in the 80s or 90s?

And talking about saying things with conviction - one thing we can all agree with conviction is that ball tampering was rampant in the IK era and the unbridled support from home umpires as well (which that amazing poster known as Buffet has clearly shown statistically several times in his posts) - should that not discount IK's achievements in comparison to those from Bumrah?

Be fair dude!
Click to expand...
Ok then please name the top batters that Bumrah have faced and here is just a small list of players of that era. Vivian Richards (Till date the longest reigning no 1 ranked batter), Sunil Gavaskar, Ian Chappel and his brothers, Ian Botham, Martin Crowe, Arjuna Ranatunga......and on and on
 
Away averages against 8 major teams:-

Bumrah - 19
Garner - 19
Ambrose - 21
McGrath- 21
Marshall - 21
Hadlee - 21

A tier below,

Donald - 23
Holding - 23
Steyn - 24
Lillee - 24
Wasim - 24
Rabada - 25
Cummins - 25
Pollock - 25
Walsh - 25
Imran - 25
Waqar - 26




To conclude,

Tier 1 - Marshall, McGrath, Hadlee, Ambrose, Bumrah

Tier 2 - Garner(due to lack of 5-fee and not being lead bowler), Steyn, Wasim, Donald, Lillee, Holding

Tier 3 - Cummins, Imran, Pollock, Rabada, Waqar, Walsh


So, it seems Bumrah is a tier 1 bowler while Imran is a tier 3 bowler based on their away record. :kp :inti
 
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