[PICTURES] For those who hail Jasprit Bumrah, must acknowledge the greatness of the Real Head of the Table (Imran Khan)

[Van_Sri]

Bumrah with 200 Away Wickets and 100 Home Wickets with an Average below 22 is better than Imran for me.

 

[Kianig89]

Different era, Different type of players surely no comparison between two.

Imran bowled to the likes of Gooch, Botham, Viv , Haynes & Chappel whereas Bumrah bowling against Braithwaite, Crawley, Konstas, Conway etc

 

[Van_Sri]

Imran was better as an Allrounder but not as a Bowler.

 

[Local.Dada]

A) Never won India a world cup during his entire 24 year long reign. In 2011 minus Pakistan, the only other 2 games he performed in, India lost and the other was a tie. The entire team even stated they wanted to win for Sachin rather then Sachin winning it for them. Truth is he wasn't needed besides Pakistan game. And Asia cup exit in 2012 was caused by him. His final century is awful.

B) As a captain he led India into ruin, probably the top 5 worst captains of all time. He himself admitted that he wasn't a leader or a mentor to anyone, just an inspiration from a batting perspective.

Ik is a top quality bowler, it's an insult to compare bhuvi to him and anyone who makes that comparison is clueless about cricket or an Indian. A top class captain and very handy qith the bat.

Remove all this pr nonsense and you'd realise that kapil dev and imran Khan are their countries respective 2 greatest cricketers ever.

Sachin, Kohli, and Dhoni are social media, pr and bollywood hype, their excellent cricketers no doubt but not what you guys have perceived them to be qith your bollywood antics

A) Never won India a world cup during his entire 24 year long reign. In 2011 minus Pakistan, the only other 2 games he performed in, India lost and the other was a tie. The entire team even stated they wanted to win for Sachin rather then Sachin winning it for them. Truth is he wasn't needed besides Pakistan game. And Asia cup exit in 2012 was caused by him. His final century is awful.

Are you sure? He is a Ct and WC winner. Is BCCICC cheating me?

Also Tendulkar waited for 24 yrs. How many years did Imran Khan wait lol. He was a 40 yr old guy being carried by his team in 1992. Captaincy skills are directly proportional to winning a trophy. MSD has won Wc, WT20, Asia cup in both odi and t20 format, CT and was the no.1 test team in the world. Also won a SENA series (Nzl). As a odi batsman he was leagues ahead of Imran Khan. Virat Kohli well he is king Virat Kohli. However yes all of them including Imran were great players and have fanatic following. That’s the larger point.

Also SRt in WC quarter final

IND vs AUS Cricket Scorecard, 2nd Quarter-Final at Ahmedabad, March 24, 2011

Live Cricket Scoreboard: Get India vs Australia 2nd Quarter-Final, cricket scorecard, ICC Cricket World Cup 2010/11 dated March 24, 2011.

www.espncricinfo.com

 

[Van_Sri]

Are you sure? He is a Ct and WC winner. Is BCCICC cheating me?

Also Tendulkar waited for 24 yrs. How many years did Imran Khan wait lol. He was a 40 yr old guy being carried by his team in 1992. Captaincy skills are directly proportional to winning a trophy. MSD has won Wc, WT20, Asia cup in both odi and t20 format, CT and was the no.1 test team in the world. Also won a SENA series (Nzl). As a odi batsman he was leagues ahead of Imran Khan. Virat Kohli well he is king Virat Kohli. However yes all of them including Imran were great players and have fanatic following. That’s the larger point.

Also SRt in WC quarter final

IND vs AUS Cricket Scorecard, 2nd Quarter-Final at Ahmedabad, March 24, 2011

Live Cricket Scoreboard: Get India vs Australia 2nd Quarter-Final, cricket scorecard, ICC Cricket World Cup 2010/11 dated March 24, 2011.

www.espncricinfo.com

Imran Khan scored 44 and 72 in 1992 World Cup coming at No 3 in Semi-Final and Final. He did contribute to Pakistan Success in 1992 World Cup.

 

[Local.Dada]

Imran Khan scored 44 and 72 in 1992 World Cup coming at No 3 in Semi-Final and Final. He did contribute to Pakistan Success in 1992 World Cup.

Absolutely. Legend cricketer. I was merely stating that waiting for a long time to win a World Cup is not unique to Sachin and also a fact Sachin did win a WC and ct as @mominsaigol above said SRT never won or I may have understood it that way.

 

[Ab Fan]

In a couple of years time, Bumrah will cement his spot in Tier 1 of fast bowlers.

Tier 1 - Marshall, McGrath, Hadlee, Bumrah, Ambrose

Tier 2 - Steyn, Imran, Donald, Wasim, Garner, Holding, Lillee, Cummins

Tier 3 - Rabada, Pollock, Roberts, Waqar, Walsh

 

[Van_Sri]

In a couple of years time, Bumrah will cement his spot in Tier 1 of fast bowlers.

Tier 1 - Marshall, McGrath, Hadlee, Bumrah, Ambrose

Tier 2 - Steyn, Imran, Donald, Wasim, Garner, Holding, Lillee, Cummins

Tier 3 - Rabada, Pollock, Roberts, Waqar, Walsh

Bumrah has to take atleast 300 Wickets to be discussed as a Tier 1 Bowler with an Average less than 22.

 

[FastBowlingAllrounder]

Would Australia score 180 in the first innings if Bumrah was not injured?

Probably.

 

[BouncerGuy]

Bumrah has to take atleast 300 Wickets to be discussed as a Tier 1 Bowler with an Average less than 22.

This is true... Bumrah is lacking wicekts atm... He is the best one in current era but he is certainly not the ATG atm.

 

[mominsaigol]

Absolutely. Legend cricketer. I was merely stating that waiting for a long time to win a World Cup is not unique to Sachin and also a fact Sachin did win a WC and ct as @mominsaigol above said SRT never won or I may have understood it that way.

You misunderstood. Read what I said carefully.

 

[Van_Sri]

This is true... Bumrah is lacking wicekts atm... He is the best one in current era but he is certainly not the ATG atm.

He need atleast 3 more years of Test Career with a couple of 2024’s

 

[Van_Sri]

Imran Khan scored 44 and 72 in 1992 World Cup coming at No 3 in Semi-Final and Final. He did contribute to Pakistan Success in 1992 World Cup.

Imran Khan also did very well in 1987 World Cup Semi Final - took 3/36 and scored 58 runs vs Australia

 

[mominsaigol]

This is true... Bumrah is lacking wicekts atm... He is the best one in current era but he is certainly not the ATG atm.

Lacking wickets, Lacking 10 wicket hauls, and has a clown record vs NZ which people are conveintally ignoring.

Bumrah's biggest issue is that stamina wise he's a clown. He's basically injury prone and lacks the ability to bowl long spells.

It's for this reason he hasn't taken a 10 wicket haul as of yet. And his NZ record is beyond hilarious.

He's overrated by Indians who overrated laxman > YK as well. Plain and simple.

Bumrah needs to pick up a few 10 wicket hauls and improve his NZ avg to be considered in the same league as mcgrath, Marshall etc.

 

[amax]

Bumrah has to take atleast 300 Wickets to be discussed as a Tier 1 Bowler with an Average less than 22.

Lack of 10fer is also one weak point on the "quantitative" side of things.

 

[Local.Dada]

This is true... Bumrah is lacking wicekts atm... He is the best one in current era but he is certainly not the ATG atm.

Imran Khan is considered an ATG allrounder. Not bowler. I have never heard one single batsman say they were scared of IK bowling like they said about Lillee-Thompson or WI bowlers. Yes in the 90s people thought Pak attack was dangerous and scary with 2 Ws and later Shoaib. IK is regarded as a very good bowler but not an ATG must see bowler. Yes absolutely can claim to be one of the greatest allrounders to play the game.

 

[Local.Dada]

Lacking wickets, Lacking 10 wicket hauls, and has a clown record vs NZ which people are conveintally ignoring.

Bumrah's biggest issue is that stamina wise he's a clown. He's basically injury prone and lacks the ability to bowl long spells.

It's for this reason he hasn't taken a 10 wicket haul as of yet. And his NZ record is beyond hilarious.

He's overrated by Indians who overrated laxman > YK as well. Plain and simple.

Bumrah needs to pick up a few 10 wicket hauls and improve his NZ avg to be considered in the same league as mcgrath, Marshall etc.

Bumrah plays 4 formats because I consider IpL its own unique format and has star performances and stand out performances in all formats and all conditions. Doesn’t need validation. Currently the best of this era like Steyn from previous era. . Anyone trying to manipulate numbers to prove otherwise not only understand math but also cricket or is a hater. No other explanation. No one is close in terms of the fear factor Bumrah has.

That is the starting and ending of this argument

 

[The Bald Eagle]

@Ab Fan I like your discourse, because atleast unlike other posters you come up with stats and logic to get your point across. But thankfully, your little question made me do a search for detail stats that hilariously debunk your argument


Bumrah's average against all teams in Test is below. And as in IK's time there wasn't any SENA but ENA. So his avg against ENA is 28.25. Ang against NZ it is awful. While Imran's avg is 25.19 against ENA
View attachment 150395

View attachment 150394

@The Bald Eagle

No response to that post ?

@Ab Fan for you too as you conveniently ignored my challenge to introduce separate avgs for ENA and then do the maths. Anyways I have come across what you guys are up to and was a bit flabbergasted to find how ICC calculates avgs. Which is ludicrous as shown in below pic with following source.

Bowling average - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Anyways the stats are in the above posts of mine that I have quoted

Against England
*Bumrah 22.17
*Imran 24.64

Against New Zealand
* Bumrah 45.44
* IMran 28.19

Against Australia
* Bumrah 17. 16
* Imran 24.97

And I calculated how any person with basic math knowledge should do

Bumrah avg against ENA (22.17 + 45.44+ 17.16 ÷3) = 28.26
Imran avg against ENA (24.64+28.19+24.97 ÷3) = 25.93

So this is how I calculated the above overall and the away avg of both and in that manner Bumrah could have never ended with 21 avg. Got it

 

[The Bald Eagle]

So my generous and magnanimous offer as host of this thread to @uppercut , @Ab Fan and @Rajdeep to please give us a criteria to find out GOAT or ATG and compare any two players with such contentions.

A. Should it be the holistic data as I provided in OP but then some Socrates here resorted to selective cheery picking to rescue their idol
B. Present any criteria of YOUR choice and be the man of your words and I would too accept it and apply uniformly to gauge the greatness of players
C. Ignore altogether and make troll posts to save your faces

The choice is your, guys, no shame in accepting Khan is no better than Bumrah and expect likewise from you after you choose your course of action.

 

[mominsaigol]

Bumrah plays 4 formats because I consider IpL its own unique format and has star performances and stand out performances in all formats and all conditions. Doesn’t need validation. Currently the best of this era like Steyn from previous era. . Anyone trying to manipulate numbers to prove otherwise not only understand math but also cricket or is a hater. No other explanation. No one is close in terms of the fear factor Bumrah has.

That is the starting and ending of this argument

No one said he isn't the best of his era.

And no one brought in other formats either. I don't disagree with him being the best t20 bowler of all time.

But he vastly vastly behind the likes of mcgrath and even wasim in tests. Forget wickets, don't really care about that as that's no of matches dependant.

But he needs 10 fers and needs to improve that nz avg.

He does that keeping the same 19 avg and he'll be > Mcgrath as a test bowler even.

^^ Those are the numbers. Also don't play this no games qith me, I saw how you guys were comically using numbers in that rubbish laxman vs Younis Khan thread.

And don't talk about haters either. Ik you yourself don't do it, but most Indian posters assume that if you're a Pakistani and bangaldeshi then automatically their biased which is hypocritical and very ironic coming from biased people who are in minority on a pakistani forumn anyway.

Bumrah can rank > Mcgrath if he improves his nz avg and gets more 10 fers. He hasn't gotten 10 fers due to his lack of stamina and fitness being able to bowl long spells.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

No one said he isn't the best of his era.

And no one brought in other formats either. I don't disagree with him being the best t20 bowler of all time.

But he vastly vastly behind the likes of mcgrath and even wasim in tests. Forget wickets, don't really care about that as that's no of matches dependant.

But he needs 10 fers and needs to improve that nz avg.

He does that keeping the same 19 avg and he'll be > Mcgrath as a test bowler even.

^^ Those are the numbers. Also don't play this no games qith me, I saw how you guys were comically using numbers in that rubbish laxman vs Younis Khan thread.

And don't talk about haters either. Ik you yourself don't do it, but most Indian posters assume that if you're a Pakistani and bangaldeshi then automatically their biased which is hypocritical and very ironic coming from biased people who are in minority on a pakistani forumn anyway.

Bumrah can rank > Mcgrath if he improves his nz avg and gets more 10 fers. He hasn't gotten 10 fers due to his lack of stamina and fitness being able to bowl long spells.

Can't agree more

 

[uppercut]

Anyways the stats are in the above posts of mine that I have quoted

Against England
*Bumrah 22.17
*Imran 24.64

Against New Zealand
* Bumrah 45.44
* IMran 28.19

Against Australia
* Bumrah 17. 16
* Imran 24.97

And I calculated how any person with basic math knowledge should do

Bumrah avg against ENA (22.17 + 45.44+ 17.16 ÷3) = 28.26
Imran avg against ENA (24.64+28.19+24.97 ÷3) = 25.93

So this is how I calculated the above overall and the away avg of both and in that manner Bumrah could have never ended with 21 avg. Got it

ohh bhai ... you cannot compute avg of averages like that!!

Reason: the denominator in bowling avg calculation which is the runs conceded is different for each country. So your avgs for both players are wrong. Yes BOTH.


I will give you a simple example. Lets say you eat 1 apple a day for 364 days and on new years eve you go full celebration mode and eat 50 apples on that day. What is your per day apple consumption ? according to your logic its (1 + 50)/2 = 25.5 apples per day ?

 

[The Bald Eagle]

ohh bhai ... you cannot compute avg of averages like that!!

Reason: the denominator in bowling avg calculation which is the runs conceded is different for each country. So your avgs for both players are wrong. Yes BOTH.


I will give you a simple example. Lets say you eat 1 apple a day for 364 days and on new years eve you go full celebration mode and eat 50 apples on that day. What is your per day apple consumption ? according to your logic its (1 + 50)/2 = 25.5 apples per day ?

Lol...you tried hard but missed the trick..

Let me dish it my way. According to your ICC avg formula as mentioned in post 178.

Bumrah takes 1/30 in 10 overs with an economy rate of 3 and bowling average in this case would be 30.
Haris Rauf gets whacked for 89/3 in same 10 overs with economy rate of nearly 9 and bowling avg of 29.66

So as per your avg determines the winner formula with ICC formula who is the winner by bowling avg.... surprise surprise it's Haris Rauf....lol have I said anything wrong?

 

[Local.Dada]

No one said he isn't the best of his era.

And no one brought in other formats either. I don't disagree with him being the best t20 bowler of all time.

But he vastly vastly behind the likes of mcgrath and even wasim in tests. Forget wickets, don't really care about that as that's no of matches dependant.

But he needs 10 fers and needs to improve that nz avg.

He does that keeping the same 19 avg and he'll be > Mcgrath as a test bowler even.

^^ Those are the numbers. Also don't play this no games qith me, I saw how you guys were comically using numbers in that rubbish laxman vs Younis Khan thread.

And don't talk about haters either. Ik you yourself don't do it, but most Indian posters assume that if you're a Pakistani and bangaldeshi then automatically their biased which is hypocritical and very ironic coming from biased people who are in minority on a pakistani forumn anyway.

Bumrah can rank > Mcgrath if he improves his nz avg and gets more 10 fers. He hasn't gotten 10 fers due to his lack of stamina and fitness being able to bowl long spells.

Fair point but I don’t speak for everyone collectively. I am only giving my take.

 

[uppercut]

Lol...you tried hard but missed the trick..

Let me dish it my way. According to your ICC avg formula as mentioned in post 178.

Bumrah takes 1/30 in 10 overs with an economy rate of 3 and bowling average in this case would be 30.
Haris Rauf gets whacked for 89/3 in same 10 overs with economy rate of nearly 9 and bowling avg of 29.66

So as per your avg determines the winner formula with ICC formula who is the winner by bowling avg.... surprise surprise it's Haris Rauf....lol have I said anything wrong?

What !!?? You are talking about a completely different topic of what constitutes better match performance in an isolated match. I am talking about career avg calculation !!! This is like comparing mud with apples.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Ok @uppercut so should career avg be the criteria of greatness agreed or the holistic stats like avg, economy, wickets per innings, fifers, 10fers etc. plz give us your criteria

What !!?? You are talking about a completely different topic of what constitutes better match performance in an isolated match. I am talking about career avg calculation !!! This is like comparing mud with apples.

 

[uppercut]

Ok @uppercut so should career avg be the criteria of greatness agreed or the holistic stats like avg, economy, wickets per innings, fifers, 10fers etc. plz give us your criteria

Forget about whether we should use averages or not for evaluating a player for a moment. I am just talking about HOW to correctly calculate overall avg. According to you we can just add up avgs in each country and divide by the number of countries. Correct ?

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Forget about whether we should use averages or not for evaluating a player. I am just talking about HOW to correctly calculate overall avg. According to you we can just add up avgs in each country and divide by the number of countries. Correct ?

It ought to be but it isn't so. Because as you are the witness yourself it help some to hide bad avg against particular teams. IYKWIM.

It may not be the best criteria but certainly appears better than current one. If they want to make it more accurate than need to bring in the contemplation of economy rate too.

And it's fine that if you aren't interested in any criteria anymore

 

[uppercut]

It ought to be but it isn't so.

Do you know why ? Hint: It has got nothing to do with Cricket. If you really want to know why ... see the apples example I posted in Post# 184.

Do you still want to claim that your per day apple consumption is 25.5 when you know that you eat only one apple for 364 out of 365 days ?

 

[mominsaigol]

Fair point but I don’t speak for everyone collectively. I am only giving my take.

You have to analyse metrics.

In tests, your avg across other countries and year by year performance determines who's > who.

For example Kane Williamson has 33 centuries in just 103 test games and avg 54. On the surface these are excellent stats and would qualify his as top 5 greatest test batters of all time.

However you cannot say Williamson is > Younis Khan? Why? Because YK has solid records in every country barring SA where he averages 31, So even though he has a lower avg and Williamson is about to beat his century tally in lesser games,

Williamson has been a circus clown in eng, India, Sri Lanka, and south africa. Avg 20 to 25 in these countries is downright hilarious.

And barring NZ he hasn't been that great in other countries either. His best avg barring neutral venues like uae is 42 in Australia which isn't bad but nothing special either.

More runs and higher avg doesnt determine anything as that's based of no of games played.

Coming back to Bumrah, Someone like mcgrath has a 21 avg and a nigh perfect record across every country. To top it off the batters were the likes of Sachin, kallis etc. Finally he has multiple 10 fers and what not.

Bumrah only beats Mcgrath on avg, but his record against nz both at home and away is clown worthy and he has zero 10 fers which implies that

A) He's avg with the new ball

B) He doesn't have stamina.

And Bumrah's record with the old ball isn't great either. In bgt Travis head and Steve smith both went carnage mode on him once he was forced to bowl with the old ball.

He only dismissed Steve and Travis when the new ball was on.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Do you know why ? Hint: It has got nothing to do with Cricket. If you really want to know why ... see the apples example I posted in Post# 184.

Do you still want to claim that your per day apple consumption is 25.5 when you know that you eat only one apple for 364 out of 365 days ?

Nope you are wrong you had to divide by 365 or 366, not 2 first thing.

The example you quoted could be true if you are finding avg of 2 days. Simple

 

[mominsaigol]

You have to analyse metrics.

In tests, your avg across other countries and year by year performance determines who's > who.

For example Kane Williamson has 33 centuries in just 103 test games and avg 54. On the surface these are excellent stats and would qualify his as top 5 greatest test batters of all time.

However you cannot say Williamson is > Younis Khan? Why? Because YK has solid records in every country barring SA where he averages 31, So even though he has a lower avg and Williamson is about to beat his century tally in lesser games,

Williamson has been a circus clown in eng, India, Sri Lanka, and south africa. Avg 20 to 25 in these countries is downright hilarious.

And barring NZ he hasn't been that great in other countries either. His best avg barring neutral venues like uae is 42 in Australia which isn't bad but nothing special either.

More runs and higher avg doesnt determine anything as that's based of no of games played.

Coming back to Bumrah, Someone like mcgrath has a 21 avg and a nigh perfect record across every country. To top it off the batters were the likes of Sachin, kallis etc. Finally he has multiple 10 fers and what not.

Bumrah only beats Mcgrath on avg, but his record against nz both at home and away is clown worthy and he has zero 10 fers which implies that

A) He's avg with the new ball

B) He doesn't have stamina.

And Bumrah's record with the old ball isn't great either. In bgt Travis head and Steve smith both went carnage mode on him once he was forced to bowl with the old ball.

He only dismissed Steve and Travis when the new ball was on.

Sorry @PakPremi on A i meant avg with the old ball.

He's top quality with the new ball.

 

[uppercut]

Nope you are wrong you had to divide by 365 or 366, not 2 first thing.

The example you quoted could be true if you are finding avg of 2 days. Simple

So post the correct math calculation and the correct average apple consumption per day

 

[mominsaigol]

So post the correct math calculation and the correct average apple consumption per day

It's not even hard bro?

Their 365 days in a calender year.

364 + 50 = 414 apples eaten in a year.

414 ÷ 365 = 1.13 apples eaten per day.

 

[uppercut]

Lol...it's just for you will remove this irrelevant stuff later.

365+50 ÷366 =1.133

yes and to break it up its actually like this: ( 1 x 364 ) + ( 50 x 1 ) / ( 364 + 1 ) = 414/365 = 1.13

So do the same for bowling avg calculation for Bumrah ( or any bowler for that matter ).

 

[Ab Fan]

In a couple of years time, Bumrah will cement his spot in Tier 1 of fast bowlers.

Tier 1 - Marshall, McGrath, Hadlee, Bumrah, Ambrose

Tier 2 - Steyn, Imran, Donald, Wasim, Garner, Holding, Lillee, Cummins

Tier 3 - Rabada, Pollock, Roberts, Waqar, Walsh

Considering that our little brother @The Bald Eagle has lost its mind and is creating new formulas in process of suggesting us how averages should be computed, I guess for neutrals, it is pretty much evident that we can follow the above tier wise ranking of all fast bowlers.

 

[uppercut]

It's not even hard bro?

Their 365 days in a calender year.

364 + 50 = 414 apples eaten in a year.

414 ÷ 365 = 1.13 apples eaten per day.

Why do you think I came up with that scenario ?

Hint: Read post# 178 and also follow the previous posts quoted in there.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Considering that our little brother @The Bald Eagle has lost its mind and is creating new formulas in process of suggesting us how averages should be computed, I guess for neutrals, it is pretty much evident that we can follow the above tier wise ranking of all fast bowlers.

Lol.... @Ab Fan have you gone mad, how on earth you put Bumrah with the likes of Hadlee, Ambrose, Marshall, McGrath etc....just because of avg???

How come a bowler who may hardly cross 350 tally in his entire career and with ZERO 10fer let alone 1 in SENA could compare to these above legends with multiple 10 fers. Brother ab you need some rest may be you are losing the plot because of your blind love for Bumrah

 

[Ab Fan]

Lol.... @Ab Fan have you gone mad, how on earth you put Bumrah with the likes of Hadlee, Ambrose, Marshall, McGrath etc....just because of avg???

How come a bowler who may hardly cross 350 tally in his entire career and with ZERO 10fer let alone 1 in SENA could compare to these above legends with multiple 10 fers. Brother ab you need some rest may be you are losing the plot because of your blind love for Bumrah

Quality of wickets define greatness. Not quantity.

Quality wise, Bumrah is right up there. I already proved it. He is operating in a different league to Imran as test bowler purely.

 

[sweep_shot]

Bumrah with 200 Away Wickets and 100 Home Wickets with an Average below 22 is better than Imran for me.

Comparing averages across two different eras is silly.

Bowlers in the past faced better batters and they also didn't have DRS.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Quality of wickets define greatness. Not quantity.

Quality wise, Bumrah is right up there. I already proved it. He is operating in a different league to Imran as test bowler purely.

Hahahah ...ok just check my OP.....Bumrah prime bowling year vs IK prime bowler. Who won even with the avg.

Additional information for you bro, Bumrah in 2024 bagged 11 wickets with an avg of nearly 10 against BANGLADESH. While IK in 1982 bagged wickets against Aus, Ind and away against England. It is your QUALITY wise fair analysis of prime year vs prime year

 

[mominsaigol]

Why do you think I came up with that scenario ?

Hint: Read post# 178 and also follow the previous posts quoted in there.

Oh I see, i just read them.

All ill say is, all you guys suck at math .

Anyway, Bumrah is a top tier bowler. IK is a top tier allrounder.

I don't really care much about this thread, My only goal is to expose overglorified Indian players like ashwin, Jadeja, Laxman, Dhoni and a few others.

Their great players but overglorified and wouldn't have had any hype if they were Australian, English, From NZ or what not. All this marketing pr irritates me.

Same for Pakistani players and Pakistani fans who overglorify.

But I don't have an issue with bumrah or Imran Khan, as both are the real deal and their hype matches their status.

I do disagree with bumrah being the greatest test bowler of all time. He can definitely become no 1 but for that he needs to fix his NZ avg and take 10 fers as well as improve with the old ball.

Which is why I rank him below Mcgrath as mcgrath has zero red flags. It's also why I rank root below Sachin, Smith, Lara and a few others. That aus avg sticks out like a sore thumb and so does that barely 50 avg.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

I do disagree with bumrah being the greatest test bowler of all time. He can definitely become no 1 but for that he needs to fix his NZ avg and take 10 fers as well as improve with the old ball.

Which is why I rank him below Mcgrath as mcgrath has zero red flags. It's also why I rank root below Sachin, Smith, Lara and a few others. That aus avg sticks out like a sore thumb and so does that barely 50 avg.

I don't know bro, when on earth ppl will get your simple plain point, appears to be Chinese for some.

 

[sweep_shot]

I do disagree with bumrah being the greatest test bowler of all time. He can definitely become no 1 but for that he needs to fix his NZ avg and take 10 fers as well as improve with the old ball.

Anyone who thinks Bumrah is the greatest Test bowler of all time is clearly new to cricket and/or has some type of mental health problem.

 

[mominsaigol]

I don't know bro, when on earth ppl will get your simple plain point, appears to be Chinese for some.

You can only make someone see the truth, you can't make em accept it

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Guys please stick to the thread topic, thanks

 

[uppercut]

@The Bald Eagle .... are you still saying that Bumrah's avg in ENA is wrong and it should be 28.26 and it should be calculated like this in post# 178 by you:


Bumrah avg against ENA (22.17 + 45.44+ 17.16 ÷3) = 28.26
Imran avg against ENA (24.64+28.19+24.97 ÷3) = 25.93

 

[sweep_shot]

@The Bald Eagle .... are you still saying that Bumrah's avg in ENA is wrong and it should be 28.26 and it should be calculated like this in post# 178 by you:


Bumrah avg against ENA (22.17 + 45.44+ 17.16 ÷3) = 28.26
Imran avg against ENA (24.64+28.19+24.97 ÷3) = 25.93

Check the batters Imran bowled against and the batters Bumrah bowled against. Imran didn't have the luxury to bowl against T20 hacks.

Comparing averages across two different eras is pretty silly.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

@The Bald Eagle .... are you still saying that Bumrah's avg in ENA is wrong and it should be 28.26 and it should be calculated like this in post# 178 by you:


Bumrah avg against ENA (22.17 + 45.44+ 17.16 ÷3) = 28.26
Imran avg against ENA (24.64+28.19+24.97 ÷3) = 25.93

I have already addressed it. Can't repeat it. You guys feel like defending Bumrah is your utmost duty. Just check my OP stats. That is what a real holistic analysis should be like. It was only guys like you and Ab fan who resorted to cherry picking

 

[uppercut]

Check the batters Imran bowled against and the batters Bumrah bowled against. Imran didn't have the luxury to bowl against T20 hacks.

Comparing averages across two different eras is pretty silly.

The question I asked @The Bald Eagle is about mathematics not cricket ... do you understand the difference ? If so please feel free to answer that question in my post that you are quoting without resorting to verbal gymnastics

 

[uppercut]

I have already addressed it. Can't repeat it. You guys feel like defending Bumrah is your utmost duty. Just check my OP stats. That is what a real holistic analysis should be like. It was only guys like you and Ab fan who resorted to cherry picking

No you have not ... and Iam talking about your Post#80 and post# 178. These are different stats compared to what you posted in the OP and the problem is in how you calculated Bumrah's ENA avg to be 28.26

 

[Van_Sri]

Let’s Compare Wasim and Bumrah - 1) Stamina - Wasim bowled 20.83 Overs per Innings in his Career and Bumrah is bowling at 16.72 Overs per Innings. Wasim > Bumrah in Stamina. 2) Wickets per Innings : Wasim took 2.29 Wickets per innings and Bumrah is taking 2.38 Wickets per innings. Conclusion : Bumrah despite bowling less overs than Wasim is still managing to take more wickets than Wasim in a Test Match so untill this number is effected in the future we cannot blame Bumrah for Stamina.

 

[Van_Sri]

Wickets per innings : 1) Hadlee : 2.87 2) Lillee : 2.69 3) Steyn : 2.57 4) Donald : 2.56 5) Rabada : 2.55 6) Imran : 2.55 7) Marshall : 2.49 8) Waqar : 2.42 9) Bumrah : 2.38 10) Cummins : 2.35 11) Garner : 2.33 12) McGrath : 2.32 13) Wasim : 2.29 14) Ambrose : 2.26 15) Roberts : 2.24 16) Holding : 2.20 17) Walsh : 2.14 18) Pollock : 2.08

In a couple of years time, Bumrah will cement his spot in Tier 1 of fast bowlers.

Tier 1 - Marshall, McGrath, Hadlee, Bumrah, Ambrose

Tier 2 - Steyn, Imran, Donald, Wasim, Garner, Holding, Lillee, Cummins

Tier 3 - Rabada, Pollock, Roberts, Waqar, Walsh

 

[sweep_shot]

Wickets per innings : 1) Hadlee : 2.87 2) Lillee : 2.69 3) Steyn : 2.57 4) Donald : 2.56 5) Rabada : 2.55 6) Imran : 2.55 7) Marshall : 2.49 8) Waqar : 2.42 9) Bumrah : 2.38 10) Cummins : 2.35 11) Garner : 2.33 12) McGrath : 2.32 13) Wasim : 2.29 14) Ambrose : 2.26 15) Roberts : 2.24 16) Holding : 2.20 17) Walsh : 2.14 18) Pollock : 2.08

I hope you understand taking wickets of Konstas and Tim Paine are not the same as taking wickets of Ricky Ponting and Steve Waugh.

What I am trying to say is stats across two different eras shouldn't be compared. There are many factors.

 

[Van_Sri]

I hope you understand taking wickets of Konstas and Tim Paine are not the same as taking wickets of Ricky Ponting and Steve Waugh.

What I am trying to say is stats across two different eras shouldn't be compared. There are many factors.

I pointed out one factor and it’s a factor that tells you how much the team relied on a fast bowler for wickets.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

ohh bhai ... you cannot compute avg of averages like that!!

Reason: the denominator in bowling avg calculation which is the runs conceded is different for each country. So your avgs for both players are wrong. Yes BOTH.


I will give you a simple example. Lets say you eat 1 apple a day for 364 days and on new years eve you go full celebration mode and eat 50 apples on that day. What is your per day apple consumption ? according to your logic its (1 + 50)/2 = 25.5 apples per day ?

@uppercut are you numbskull, you yourself quoted my answer post 178 and now running away.

You jumped in to defend bumrah by quoting avg. So simple question for you how you gauge greatness....hope you won't flee like usual with your whataboutery

 

[uppercut]

@uppercut are you numbskull, you yourself quoted my answer post 178 and now running away.

I quoted that post# 178 to highlight the wrong avg calculation. Do you agree that you are calculating the ENA OR SENA avg wrongly ?

You jumped in to defend bumrah by quoting avg. So simple question for you how you gauge greatness....hope you won't flee like usual with your whataboutery

A very simple method is to look at bowling avgs. Its a universally accepted stat. And its not like Bumrah has played very small number Of tests. Infact his wkts tally is now above 200 wkts while avg has stayed under 20 which is a unheard of accomplishment. Very very few bowlers have managed that ... unless you think there's a problem with his avg. Its not like he has bashed the minnows.

obviously since he is still active the final verdict will be made when he is done playing. But there is a good reason why the whole cricket world ( except on PP lol ) is going crazy over his wkt taking ability.

Fun fact Shoaib Akhtar has played one more test ( 46 ) and taken 27 less wkts than Bumrah and at a far worse avg of 25.69 and strike rate ... that should give you a very good idea as to how good he is.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

What have I written in post 178?, Read again

I quoted that post# 178 to highlight the wrong avg calculation. Do you agree that you are calculating the ENA OR SENA avg wrongly ?

 

[cricketjoshila]

@Ab Fan for you too as you conveniently ignored my challenge to introduce separate avgs for ENA and then do the maths. Anyways I have come across what you guys are up to and was a bit flabbergasted to find how ICC calculates avgs. Which is ludicrous as shown in below pic with following source.

Bowling average - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

View attachment 150446

Anyways the stats are in the above posts of mine that I have quoted

Against England
*Bumrah 22.17
*Imran 24.64

Against New Zealand
* Bumrah 45.44
* IMran 28.19

Against Australia
* Bumrah 17. 16
* Imran 24.97

And I calculated how any person with basic math knowledge should do

Bumrah avg against ENA (22.17 + 45.44+ 17.16 ÷3) = 28.26
Imran avg against ENA (24.64+28.19+24.97 ÷3) = 25.93

So this is how I calculated the above overall and the away avg of both and in that manner Bumrah could have never ended with 21 avg. Got it

Why don't you teach this basic maths of yours to Statsguru?

Bumrahs avg vs ENA is 21.33

All-round records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

 

[cricketjoshila]

Imran Khans avg vs ENA is 25.26

All-round records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Ok do you want to compare IK and Bumrah, then what about OP stats that make Bumrah and IK comparison at their peaks plus stats after same number of innings, infact two more for Bumrah as a grace and leniency.

Any thoughts about that???

Also those stats contain career prime year avg too....and that avg is calculated as per your favorite stats guru method...any thoughts without shifting goal posts???

Imran Khans avg vs ENA is 25.26

All-round records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

 

[uppercut]

What have I written in post 178?, Read again

The first point in that post of problem with avg calculation ( low wkt count ) does not apply to Bumrah ... 200 wkts is not a small number ... you should know that.

The 2nd point is about how YOU Calculated his ENA avg which is just plain Wrong. Do you agree?

 

[cricketjoshila]

Ok do you want to compare IK and Bumrah, then what about OP stats that make Bumrah and IK comparison at their peaks plus stats after same number of innings, infact two more for Bumrah as a grace and leniency.

Any thoughts about that???

Also those stats contain career prime year avg too....and that avg is calculated as per your favorite stats guru method...any thoughts without shifting goal posts???

First of all you wrongly calculated Bumrahs avg. You need to acknowledge that first.

Secondly just posting the number of wickets and avg for a year doesn't mean anything. We have to look at who were the opponents and where the matches were played.

Bumrah is still playing the game. So he has every chance of bettering his this performance.

Lastly, no one denies that Imran was a great bowler a ATG all rounder.

But Bumrahs current career avg and SR are better than Imran Khan.

Only Marshall and McGrath because of their sheer stats over a longer period and Wasim because of his sheer ability stands above Bumrah. This is based on the assumption that Bumrah has similar performances over next 100 plus test wickets.

 

[saimayubera]

Imran has an away average of 26 which is quiet poor.

Same with Wasim and Waqar.

And we all know what was happening in the 80s in Pak cricket with the umpires and the balls.

There is a reason neutral fans place Imran in tier 2 where he belongs.

 

[Van_Sri]

In Australia and England Combined : 1) Jasprit Bumrah : 101 Wickets @20.49 2) Imran Khan : 92 Wickets @26.53 3) Wasim Akram : 89 Wickets @26.84 - Bumrah already has more Wickets than Wasim and Imran in 2 Important Cricket Nations. But he needs to improve his record against New Zealand

 

[uppercut]

Ok do you want to compare IK and Bumrah, then what about OP stats that make Bumrah and IK comparison at their peaks plus stats after same number of innings, infact two more for Bumrah as a grace and leniency.

Any thoughts about that???

From your own cherry picked stats from the OP you have Imran Avging at 22.7 and JJ at 19.4 .... how does that prove Imran is better .... because Imran as 22 more wkts ... therefore the Avg difference does not matter for you ? Is this is what you are saying ?

Also those stats contain career prime year avg too....and that avg is calculated as per your favorite stats guru method...any thoughts without shifting goal posts???

No they dont. You left out Imran's horrible debut match after which he was dropped for 3 yrs , to manufacture a timeframe spanning 47 matches from 1974 where he is comparable to Bumrah whereas you have taken Bumrahs whole career so far LOL
And there is no such thing as a "Stats guru method" . There is one and only one method that everyone accepts including professional cricket statisticians, the broadcasters the officials etc etc ( except you !)


If you really want to know how good bumrah is take a look at this:

This is Imrans cumulative bowling record and you can see that it took him 30 Tests to permanently bring his bowling avg below 30.

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

whereas here is JJs cumulative record and you can see there is exactly one match where he was above 30 and that was after the 2nd test after which he never touched a avg of 30. Ofcourse Imran never managed to bring his avg below 20 or the strike rate below 50 ( never mind below 45 ) but thats another story.

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

This is why there is no comparison between the two and I have not even bothered about ball tampering to achieve reverse swing or Pakistani umpires.

 

[Ab Fan]

Why is this thread still going on? I already closed the whole argument by proving that Bumrah is operating in a different league to Imran as a test bowler.

Imran averages 26 away from home with ball against non minnows.

Bumrah averages 20 away from home against non minnows.

With factual analysis, I have debunked all arguments of brother @The Bald Eagle and he has only two choice now:

1) Either accept the reality that Bumrah is all set to surpass Imran as best Asian fast bowler.

2) Behave like a troll and post incorrect facts and arguments which he seems to be doing throughout.

I think I probably know which one he will choose.

 

[saimayubera]

Different era, Different type of players surely no comparison between two.

Imran bowled to the likes of Gooch, Botham, Viv , Haynes & Chappel whereas Bumrah bowling against Braithwaite, Crawley, Konstas, Conway etc

. Bumrah has bowled to Williamson, Root and Smith who are better than Gooch, Botham and Haynes. Smith better than Viv and Chappel too.

Imran has also bowled to lots of mid batsmen whose names have been lost to time.

This is like when people say music/movies in old days were so much better. So many high quality movies/bands etc.

Yeah, that's cause only the good ones are remembered while the mid ones are forgotten.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

First of all you wrongly calculated Bumrahs avg. You need to acknowledge that first.

Secondly just posting the number of wickets and avg for a year doesn't mean anything. We have to look at who were the opponents and where the matches were played.

Bumrah is still playing the game. So he has every chance of bettering his this performance.

Lastly, no one denies that Imran was a great bowler a ATG all rounder.

But Bumrahs current career avg and SR are better than Imran Khan.

Only Marshall and McGrath because of their sheer stats over a longer period and Wasim because of his sheer ability stands above Bumrah. This is based on the assumption that Bumrah has similar performances over next 100 plus test wickets.

On first question, I have already mentioned in post 178 that how I calculated is not the method of calculating avg by ICC and I have shared reservations on it with my premise which you can read in above posts.

Secondly about the quality of peak years team, I have already mentioned it in case you missed it

Hahahah ...ok just check my OP.....Bumrah prime bowling year vs IK prime bowler. Who won even with the avg.

Additional information for you bro, Bumrah in 2024 bagged 11 wickets with an avg of nearly 10 against BANGLADESH. While IK in 1982 bagged wickets against Aus, Ind and away against England. It is your QUALITY wise fair analysis of prime year vs prime year

Thirdly I don't deny that Bumrah is a great and the GOAT INDIAN bowler. And yep Bumrah has better avg and SR but who has more fifers, 10fers away (which infact Bumrah has zero away and home), who has better wickets/innings, best match and innings figure, best economy rate etc

You can't just restrict yourself on two stats instead of holistic comparison

 

[The Bald Eagle]

From your own cherry picked stats from the OP you have Imran Avging at 22.7 and JJ at 19.4 .... how does that prove Imran is better .... because Imran as 22 more wkts ... therefore the Avg difference does not matter for you ? Is this is what you are saying ?




No they dont. You left out Imran's horrible debut match after which he was dropped for 3 yrs , to manufacture a timeframe spanning 47 matches from 1974 where he is comparable to Bumrah whereas you have taken Bumrahs whole career so far LOL
And there is no such thing as a "Stats guru method" . There is one and only one method that everyone accepts including professional cricket statisticians, the broadcasters the officials etc etc ( except you !)


If you really want to know how good bumrah is take a look at this:

This is Imrans cumulative bowling record and you can see that it took him 30 Tests to permanently bring his bowling avg below 30.

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

whereas here is JJs cumulative record and you can see there is exactly one match where he was above 30 and that was after the 2nd test after which he never touched a avg of 30. Ofcourse Imran never managed to bring his avg below 20 or the strike rate below 50 ( never mind below 45 ) but thats another story.

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

This is why there is no comparison between the two and I have not even bothered about ball tampering to achieve reverse swing or Pakistani umpires.

Again so you believe avg is the ULTIMATE criteria then would you agree on below stats too as these stats suggest Shaheen and Naseem way better than Bumrah lol or would you like to the holistic analysis like I shared stats pics in OP.


Lol and on prime vs prime year comparison. What else do you expect. For instance if someone wants to know who is better Mike Tyson or Tyson fury then you will ask the old man to fight latter young man. Obviously you would compare both prime performances and 45 or 47 matches stats in OP is no cherry picking as Mr genius Bumrah has played only 45 matches till this date. Lol

And on IK improvement in later phase of his career. That is fact and the only thing I agree with you and by the way it was one of the most phenomenal career transformation. And also don't you know IK missed 3 years of his peak career owing to injury.



And again in case you don't know how to read stats and most importantly AVG in prime year

 

[uppercut]

Again so you believe avg is the ULTIMATE criteria then would you agree on below stats too as these stats suggest Shaheen and Naseem way better than Bumrah lol or would you like to the holistic analysis like I shared stats pics in OP.

You are are using ODI stats to prove that Bowling Avg is not the hallmark of Determining testmatch pedigree ? Nobody here claims that Bumrah is a ODI great. He does not even play much ODI cricket (and has now sat out of even the CT ). Also ODI cricket is very different from Test Cricket. So yeah nice try.

Lol and on prime vs prime year comparison. What else do you expect. For instance if someone wants to know who is better Mike Tyson or Tyson fury then you will ask the old man to fight latter young man. Obviously you would compare both prime performances and 45 or 47 matches stats in OP is no cherry picking as Mr genius Bumrah has played only 45 matches till this date. Lol

Well I didn't ask you to compare a young Bumrah with old Imran. What I said is why did you leave out the First Test match of Imran ? Was he OLD in 1971 ? This sort of dishonest stats manipulation is very easy to spot and we all know why you left that out ( as he went wicketless and therefore did not even have a bowling avg ) . If you want to leave out bad matches then do the same for both players although thats ludicrous. So for Imran you took away his stats from the first match which is 22 overs for 55 run and ZERO wkts. If you remove the same from Bumrah's stats his Avg comes down to 19.13 and a SR of 41.2 !! So you see the problem or you need further education on Cricket stats ?

However I did give you other parameters to do like-for-like comparison such as these:

1. How many matches did it take for both players to bring their bowling avg below 30,25,20
2. Ditto for Strike rates to dip below 50,45
3. Whether they were dropped.

What do you have to say for that ?

And on IK improvement in later phase of his career. That is fact and the only thing I agree with you and by the way it was one of the most phenomenal career transformation. And also don't you know IK missed 3 years of his peak career owing to injury.

Well the point is Bumrah never was soo ordinary to avg 30 after his first 30 tests. Thats very ordinary and thats a huge negative for Imran.

And again in case you don't know how to read stats and most importantly AVG in prime year

Do you even know how to calculate Avgs ? I see that you are doggedly avoiding answering that question after your hilarious calculation method got exposed ? You should be the last person to take pot shots about how to read stats.

 

[uppercut]

On first question, I have already mentioned in post 178 that how I calculated is not the method of calculating avg by ICC and I have shared reservations on it with my premise which you can read in above posts.

Nope this is what you said in Post# 178 on the topic of how you calculated that avg for ENA ( you even put down the numbers lol )

And I calculated how any person with basic math knowledge should do

Bumrah avg against ENA (22.17 + 45.44+ 17.16 ÷3) = 28.26
Imran avg against ENA (24.64+28.19+24.97 ÷3) = 25.93

I can bet my house and tell you point blank that thats not how bowling avgs are calculated per basic mathematics. END OF Story. But dont let that stop you from digging a bigger hole. The hilarious thing here is that Even Imrans avg is wrong per your calculation because it has the same problem ... lol

@Ab Fan

 

[The Bald Eagle]

O really , just go through this thread. Many calling him an ALL FORMAT BEST bowlers atm....thankfully you don't consider him an ODI great a revelation for me.

You are are using ODI stats to prove that Bowling Avg is not the hallmark of Determining testmatch pedigree ? Nobody here claims that Bumrah is a ODI great. He does not even play much ODI cricket (and has now sat out of even the CT ). Also ODI cricket is very different from Test Cricket. So yeah nice try.




Well I didn't ask you to compare a young Bumrah with old Imran. What I said is why did you leave out the First Test match of Imran ? Was he OLD in 1971 ? This sort of dishonest stats manipulation is very easy to spot and we all know why you left that out ( as he went wicketless and therefore did not even have a bowling avg ) . If you want to leave out bad matches then do the same for both players although thats ludicrous. So for Imran you took away his stats from the first match which is 22 overs for 55 run and ZERO wkts. If you remove the same from Bumrah's stats his Avg comes down to 19.13 and a SR of 41.2 !! So you see the problem or you need further education on Cricket stats ?

Lol what a great criteria....I must see haven't heard of this criteria before so wanna compare Bumrah in Tests with Scott Boland or some other bowler too. Let alone greats of past.

However I did give you other parameters to do like-for-like comparison such as these:



1. How many matches did it take for both players to bring their bowling avg below 30,25,20

2. Ditto for Strike rates to dip below 50,45

3. Whether they were dropped.

 

[uppercut]

O really , just go through this thread. Many calling him an ALL FORMAT BEST bowlers atm....thankfully you don't consider him an ODI great a revelation for me.

What they mean by that is he has performed well across all formats which is true but if you just pick ODI there is not enough matches played to declare him as a ODI great as yet and he doesnt play them regularly ( LAst played 15 months ago most probably will not play anytime soon in that format )and ofcourse he did not end up on the WC Winners side which counts against him. However he did make up for that in T20 WC.

But for whats its worth his ODI ER is 4.59 which is unreal in the modern game and his S/R and avg are top notch in the Waqar Younis category except for longevity.

Lol what a great criteria....I must see haven't heard of this criteria before so wanna compare Bumrah in Tests with Scott Boland or some other bowler too. Let alone greats of past.

So you are saying Comparing Bumrah with Imran is like comparing Boland with Bumrah ? Is that the point you are trying to make in this thread all along ?

 

[The Bald Eagle]

What they mean by that is he has performed well across all formats which is true but if you just pick ODI there is not enough matches played to declare him as a ODI great as yet and he doesnt play them regularly ( LAst played 15 months ago most probably will not play anytime soon in that format )and ofcourse he did not end up on the WC Winners side which counts against him. However he did make up for that in T20 WC.

But for whats its worth his ODI ER is 4.59 which is unreal in the modern game and his S/R and avg are top notch in the Waqar Younis category except for longevity.




So you are saying Comparing Bumrah with Imran is like comparing Boland with Bumrah ? Is that the point you are trying to make in this thread all along ?

Lol... Don't twist my word to digress from simple debate. Is this your criteria of determining a GOAT, a simple YES/NO would be enough. Because if it is Yes then I have some great stats for you

However I did give you other parameters to do like-for-like comparison such as these:



1. How many matches did it take for both players to bring their bowling avg below 30,25,20

2. Ditto for Strike rates to dip below 50,45

3. Whether they were dropped.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Nope this is what you said in Post# 178 on the topic of how you calculated that avg for ENA ( you even put down the numbers lol )




I can bet my house and tell you point blank that thats not how bowling avgs are calculated per basic mathematics. END OF Story. But dont let that stop you from digging a bigger hole. The hilarious thing here is that Even Imrans avg is wrong per your calculation because it has the same problem ... lol

@Ab Fan

Yeah I have mentioned it in PLAIN words that is how I calculated and how it should be generally calculated as mere bowling avg could be misleading remember my post 183.

Which shows how bowling avg alone without consideration of economy rate may make a bowler like Haris Rauf better than Bumrah.

And before praising Bumrah about his great economy. Would you like to tell us who has better Test economy rate Bumrah or IK?? I know you won't answer but dodge this bit. So let me answer IK has better economy rate than Bumrah. But then again I don't believe jn cherry picking but like for like Holistic comparisons...

 

[uppercut]

Lol... Don't twist my word to digress from simple debate. Is this your criteria of determining a GOAT, a simple YES/NO would be enough. Because if it is Yes then I have some great stats for you

In Test Cricket yes. Note: Now don't go crazy on Statgs guru to pull up list of bowlers with better avg than 20. You need to apply some common sense too. Like minimum number of matches and wkts and performing against top teams.

Now where is the Yes/NO answer to the question about acknowledging what is the CORRECT way to calculate Stats ?

Are you still going to stand by this method you posted in post# 178? Simple Yes/NO answer please:

And I calculated how any person with basic math knowledge should do

Bumrah avg against ENA (22.17 + 45.44+ 17.16 ÷3) = 28.26
Imran avg against ENA (24.64+28.19+24.97 ÷3) = 25.93

So this is how I calculated the above overall and the away avg of both and in that manner Bumrah could have never ended with 21 avg. Got it

Something tells me you will never answer that question.

 

[cricketjoshila]

On first question, I have already mentioned in post 178 that how I calculated is not the method of calculating avg by ICC and I have shared reservations on it with my premise which you can read in above posts.

Secondly about the quality of peak years team, I have already mentioned it in case you missed it


Thirdly I don't deny that Bumrah is a great and the GOAT INDIAN bowler. And yep Bumrah has better avg and SR but who has more fifers, 10fers away (which infact Bumrah has zero away and home), who has better wickets/innings, best match and innings figure, best economy rate etc

You can't just restrict yourself on two stats instead of holistic comparison

Bowling Avg is Number of runs given away divided by number of wickets. Thats how its calculated world wide.

That's the standard practice

Your methodology and your reservations doesn't change the standard practice.

You have comfortably hidden the fact that Imran played 1 test versus SL in 1982. Took 14 wickets @ 8.28His career best figures of 8 for 58 came in the first innings of this test.

Btw Bumrah avgd 12.81 vs BD. Thats nearly 13 not 10

Hiding facts doesn't work.

So your this Bumrah played against BD excuse is of no use.

Bumrah takes 4.5 wickets in a match

Imran takes 4.1 wickets in a match

Viv Richards Sachin Tendulkar and Ricky Ponting have no test triple 100s. So?

Viv only has 3 double hundreds. So?

 

[uppercut]

Yeah I have mentioned it in PLAIN words that is how I calculated and how it should be generally calculated as mere bowling avg could be misleading remember my post 183.

Do you realize it is JUST PLAIN HORRIBLY WRONG and it has nothing to do with Cricket ? YES/NO PLEASE.

And it cannot be misleading at all unless you are using it to rank players who have played a very small number of tests and/or taken just few wkts. 46 tests / 200+ Wkts is a pretty decent accomplishment.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

In Test Cricket yes. Note: Now don't go crazy on Statgs guru to pull up list of bowlers with better avg than 20. You need to apply some common sense too. Like minimum number of matches and wkts and performing against top teams.

Lol... Why shouldn't I because it will expose you. OK leaving it as per your request. By the way over 40 bowlers have better career avg than Bumrah and that too below 20....i am sure you have looked or checked the same stats before... That is why the plea don't apply it uniformly but by your so called "common sense"


And unlike you I didn't run away see below this is just a post above what you posted right now. It is wrong per current criteria but misleading at occasions too. Even you yourself have shed tears for IK first match avg being not recorded properly due to same method. What an irony

Yeah I have mentioned it in PLAIN words that is how I calculated and how it should be generally calculated as mere bowling avg could be misleading remember my post 183.

Which shows how bowling avg alone without consideration of economy rate may make a bowler like Haris Rauf better than Bumrah.
...