[PICTURES] Is Virat Kohli the greatest ODI run chaser in history?

[unitedkush]

What?

Stop framing your arguments on what ifs and buts. We have 5 overs left, another 30-40 wouldn't have been far fetched for us. Give the player credit when they play a good knock regardless of what their name is or what jersey they don.

This forum has been micro-analyzing Kohli's stats for 6 years now to point out his flaws, one of them were NOT scoring a century in SENA in a winning cause, well he's just done that so cop it and move on.

 

[Stark]

Stop framing your arguments on what ifs and buts. We have 5 overs left, another 30-40 wouldn't have been far fetched for us. Give the player credit when they play a good knock regardless of what their name is or what jersey they don.

This forum has been micro-analyzing Kohli's stats for 6 years now to point out his flaws, one of them were NOT scoring a century in SENA in a winning cause, well he's just done that so cop it and move on.

Harsh much?

Some people gonna lose their bowel movement if they do not lash out against certain players. It used to be SRT earlier, now it ll be virat.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Stop framing your arguments on what ifs and buts. We have 5 overs left, another 30-40 wouldn't have been far fetched for us. Give the player credit when they play a good knock regardless of what their name is or what jersey they don.

This forum has been micro-analyzing Kohli's stats for 6 years now to point out his flaws, one of them were NOT scoring a century in SENA in a winning cause, well he's just done that so cop it and move on.

Cop what? lol. He played a very good knock. All I did was call out the desperation of Kohli fans. They start bumping threads even if he chases 50 runs.

If you're gonna call someone the GOAT, expect them to be micro-analyzed.

 

[Saurav]

Pakistan's batting is trash?

even to chase a score that's hardly a challenge?

Or is chasing not that easy as it seems?

They seem to be doing fine batting first

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Cop what? lol. He played a very good knock. All I did was call out the desperation of Kohli fans. They start bumping threads even if he chases 50 runs.

If you're gonna call someone the GOAT, expect them to be micro-analyzed.

The only failure Kohli has is World Cup qualifying rounds. Micro analyzing won't help much in anything else though, his ODI career is near flawless except for WC.

 

[Sadevdesai]

One can bad mouth Kohli all they want ..... but you would want him to be in your Team !!!!!!!!!

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Cop what? lol. He played a very good knock. All I did was call out the desperation of Kohli fans. They start bumping threads even if he chases 50 runs.

If you're gonna call someone the GOAT, expect them to be micro-analyzed.

And you're criteria for judging the greatest chaser of all time is only if he has scored and won on a steep chase outside Asia(OZ/ENG/SA) against the home team with each bowler being of a high quality(no weak links). Sorry but even Viv's ODI record doesn't stand such scrutiny.

 

[Abdul]

There's no question about this. He's a godly batsman.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

And you're criteria for judging the greatest chaser of all time is only if he has scored and won on a steep chase outside Asia(OZ/ENG/SA) against the home team with each bowler being of a high quality(no weak links). Sorry but even Viv's ODI record doesn't stand such scrutiny.

That's why he will surpass him if he does that.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

even to chase a score that's hardly a challenge?

Or is chasing not that easy as it seems?

They seem to be doing fine batting first

Read the scores of the NZ series.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

That's why he will surpass him if he does that.

If that's the criteria, then he's already surpassed Viv with this knock. Viv has not scored a single knock while chasing or even batting first which is better tha this against an attack with more than 2 quality bowlers. The only attack which was relentless was the windies and Viv never faced them.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

That's why he will surpass him if he does that.

Kohli has 50+ average in all countries except Lanka and WI. He doesn't need to do much more to surpass Viv lol.

 

[fitCricFan]

This bloke is genuine class in a freakish way. I mean, look at him rotating the strike and relieving pressure. His game is all about playing based on what the situation demands and pacing his innings accordingly. With the sort of talent I can see him plundering runs around the globe with quite a few more classy innings yet to come.

You can debate all you want about him being a GOAT but he is always a pleasure to watch. Wish we had a few more Kohli's in other teams and it would have been fascinating to watch them compete

 

[unitedkush]

Cop what? lol. He played a very good knock. All I did was call out the desperation of Kohli fans. They start bumping threads even if he chases 50 runs.

If you're gonna call someone the GOAT, expect them to be micro-analyzed.

Cop when a batsman plays a special knock and not get triggered by it when inevitably he receives the plaudits , this was the 2nd highest chase in Durban by the visiting team, first victory for India in Durban as well. His fans WILL go into overdrive every time he does this because whenever he doesn't, people go to extreme lengths on this forum to play down his ability. Don't dish out if you can't take it.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

If that's the criteria, then he's already surpassed Viv with this knock. Viv has not scored a single knock while chasing or even batting first which is better tha this against an attack with more than 2 quality bowlers. The only attack which was relentless was the windies and Viv never faced them.

He has chases against attacks which would be equivalent to the overall strength of this attack.

 

[Mr.Q]

Desperate much. At least bump this thread when it's worth bumping. Chasing 270 is hardly a challenge against a bowling attack of two bowlers.

This thread was bumped when he successfully chased yet another total for India. Maybe you should read the thread title again.

It's not just one good knock but a set or series of good and great knocks that make a batsman great. This was a high quality knock and definitely deserves great praise. You don't have to be a 'fan' to appreciate a batsman like Kohli but only a hater would say what you said. I'm sorry man but I didn't expect such a comment from you.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

No he doesn't. Not in Australia and not in England. This attack of rabada,tahir and morne is probably better than any ODI attack of the 80's bar the Windies themselves. Morne has an average of less than 25 in ODI's, Tahir is the best ODI spinner and Rabada is the best test bowler in the world with a very good average of 26 ish in ODIs. That's better than Aussie or English attack that Viv supposedly chased against. Even his 189 against England had Botham and Willis and then rubbish on par with Andile probably worse.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

This thread was bumped when he successfully chased yet another total for India. Maybe you should read the thread title again.

It's not just one good knock but a set or series of good and great knocks that make a batsman great. This was a high quality knock and definitely deserves great praise. You don't have to be a 'fan' to appreciate a batsman like Kohli but only a hater would say what you said. I'm sorry man but I didn't expect such a comment from you.

He does not have a series of chasing knocks away from home. If he did, I wouldn't even comment.

This is his first impressive chase away from home. If it was bumped for that reason, I have no problem.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

No he doesn't. Not in Australia and not in England. This attack of rabada,tahir and morne is probably better than any ODI attack of the 80's bar the Windies themselves. Morne has an average of less than 25 in ODI's, Tahir is the best ODI spinner and Rabada is the best test bowler in the world with a very good average of 26 ish in ODIs. That's better than Aussie or English attack that Viv supposedly chased against. Even his 189 against England had Botham and Willis and then rubbish on par with Andile probably worse.

For Richards, Australia and England are not the only alien conditions.

Tahir is nullified on this track unless there's scoreboard pressure then his restriction comes into play. Morris and Phelukwayo's below average bowling bring this attack down. After the first 10 overs, there was no threat at all and he had all the time to set himself.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

For Richards, Australia and England are not the only alien conditions.

Tahir is nullified on this track unless there's scoreboard pressure then his restriction comes into play. Morris and Phelukwayo's below average bowling bring this attack down. After the first 10 overs, there was no threat at all and he had all the time to set himself.

After that, it's only pakistan and NZ. NZ only had hadlee. Who else did they have? Chahal and yadav took 5 wickets on this pitch but somehow the best wristspinner can't be effective on a Durban track? Every attack has a couple of great bowlers and then average/below average bowlers. It is a rare ATG bowling attack like the Windies or Mcgrath/Gillespie/Lee/Warne in 2002 that has relentless quality. Not many score against that quality batting fitrst forget about chasing.

 

[Oligochaetes]

Who is the next best century maker in run chasing victories and how many 100's? Can anyone make a list please?
Thanks in advance

 

[R3verse Swing]

GOAT/ATG titles cannot be applied to a player who is still playing - only once a player has retired and upon reflection of said player's career.

Is Kohli on track to be an ATG, yes. Is he an ATG, no.

 

[Mr.Q]

He does not have a series of chasing knocks away from home. If he did, I wouldn't even comment.

This is his first impressive chase away from home. If it was bumped for that reason, I have no problem.

It was yet another high quality knock from Kohli in a chase and hence this thread got bumped . I don't think anybody was thinking about stats or anything. And you don't need stats to praise a great batsman or a high quality knock.

 

[jnaveen1980]

He QEDed few year back. All these chases are just Icings on the cake.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

He does not have a series of chasing knocks away from home. If he did, I wouldn't even comment.

This is his first impressive chase away from home. If it was bumped for that reason, I have no problem.

He has 9 centuries chasing away from home

136 vs Bangladesh in Bangladesh (2014)

128* vs Sri Lanka in Sri Lanka (2012)

123 vs New Zealand in New Zealand (2014)

115 vs Zimbabwe in Zimbabwe (2013)

112 vs South Africa in South Africa (2018)

111* vs West Indies in West Indies (2017)

110* vs Sri Lanka in Sri Lanka (2017)

106 vs Australia in Australia (2016)

102* vs Bangladesh in Bangladesh (2010)

9 centuries doesn't look like a series of chasing knocks to you?

 

[Sachin136]

Who is the next best century maker in run chasing victories and how many 100's? Can anyone make a list please?
Thanks in advance

Sachin with 14. http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...ndreds;result=1;template=results;type=batting

 

[TM Riddle]

For Richards, Australia and England are not the only alien conditions.

Tahir is nullified on this track unless there's scoreboard pressure then his restriction comes into play. Morris and Phelukwayo's below average bowling bring this attack down. After the first 10 overs, there was no threat at all and he had all the time to set himself.

Now you are just getting desperate.
Join the Kohli fan club bro. We all float in here.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

After that, it's only pakistan and NZ. NZ only had hadlee. Who else did they have? Chahal and yadav took 5 wickets on this pitch but somehow the best wristspinner can't be effective on a Durban track? Every attack has a couple of great bowlers and then average/below average bowlers. It is a rare ATG bowling attack like the Windies or Mcgrath/Gillespie/Lee/Warne in 2002 that has relentless quality. Not many score against that quality batting fitrst forget about chasing.

One example is 95* against Australia composed of Lillee, Thomson, Hogg, Hogan. An attack of similar overall strength.

AB has chased 320 odd against Australia with Johnson, Starc, Richardson, Faulkner(prime 2014). Yes, I agree knocks like these are rare but that's why the greatest stand out from the rest.

You're saying not many but there is only one GOAT so the highest standard is expected from him. At least one knock and he's had his chances.

 

[UP]

GOAT chaser. Just needs to chase down high totals in KO games to close this case.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Now you are just getting desperate.
Join the Kohli fan club bro. We all float in here.

Okay, I'm in.

 

[BaankeJi]

One example is 95* against Australia composed of Lillee, Thomson, Hogg, Hogan. An attack of similar overall strength.

AB has chased 320 odd against Australia with Johnson, Starc, Richardson, Faulkner(prime 2014). Yes, I agree knocks like these are rare but that's why the greatest stand out from the rest.

You're saying not many but there is only one GOAT so the highest standard is expected from him. At least one knock and he's had his chances.

I agree. You call someone GOAT, he is bound to be microanalysed.

This was a very good knock. He plays a couple more such knocks and takes India to win, he would have done enough.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

I agree. You call someone GOAT, he is bound to be microanalysed.

This was a very good knock. He plays a couple more such knocks and takes India to win, he would have done enough.

Reasonable man/woman.

 

[jnaveen1980]

No one will come anywhere close to his vicinity in chasing totals like nobody’s business. He comes first. Then light years. Then next. Others occasionally does. He is doing chasing as a business

 

[Thomaskutty]

Ya , he probably is. I can't think of anyone, former or current player , who comes close.

 

[Dead Ball]

Insane run chaser.

For me , he needs to do two things more to be considered the greatest run chaser ever -

- A century in a run chase during a non-dead rubber WC match. Even better if its in a knockout. For an ODI batsman of his calibre, he has been surprisingly average in WC games. WC2019, i will be paying close attention to his performances. For me, his performance in the event will ascertain whether he is an ATG or not. Two greatest ODI batsmen of his previous eras, Viv and SRT absolutely dominated the WC.

- A century in a tournament final. Again Kohli averages only 22 in the 8 finals he has played so far. Viv and SRT upped their game significantly in finals, both averaging around 57-60 in finals i think!

I still believe Kohli will end his career as the GOAT ODI batsman, he has had an excellent learning curve so far in his career. But for me, he has to tick the couple of boxes i mentioned.

 

[jadaja]

not just chaser, he is the best odi player ever, no one comes close.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Insane run chaser.

For me , he needs to do two things more to be considered the greatest run chaser ever -

- A century in a run chase during a non-dead rubber WC match. Even better if its in a knockout. For an ODI batsman of his calibre, he has been surprisingly average in WC games. WC2019, i will be paying close attention to his performances. For me, his performance in the event will ascertain whether he is an ATG or not. Two greatest ODI batsmen of his previous eras, Viv and SRT absolutely dominated the WC.

- A century in a tournament final. Again Kohli averages only 22 in the 8 finals he has played so far. Viv and SRT upped their game significantly in finals, both averaging around 57-60 in finals i think!

I still believe Kohli will end his career as the GOAT ODI batsman, he has had an excellent learning curve so far in his career. But for me, he has to tick the couple of boxes i mentioned.

No need. Run chase is run chase. Pressure or no pressure. Kohli not scoring final is just an aberration Not like bowlers suddenly become demons. Lot of lesser known players have done well in final. It is only feather in the cap rather than cap itself. If only chasing is that easy we would not be talking about it . Do we have a topic Greatest setter of the target. No. Because every Tom sick and Harry can do that.

 

[Dead Ball]

No need. Run chase is run chase. Pressure or no pressure. Kohli not scoring final is just an aberration Not like bowlers suddenly become demons. Lot of lesser known players have done well in final. It is only feather in the cap rather than cap itself. If only chasing is that easy we would not be talking about it . Do we have a topic Greatest setter of the target. No. Because every Tom sick and Harry can do that.

Disagree here.

The World Cup is the biggest stage of cricket , especially if you're from the SC.

The reason Viv and SRT are considered GOAT is because they significantly improved their games in finals/WC. The greatest run chaser of all time having zero hundreds in chases in WC or finals would be a shame and a huge chink in his record.

An aberration is if its 2-3 matches. Kohli has played in 8 finals and hasn't even scored a 50!

We're talking about the potential GOAT in Kohli, so the standards have to be set very high accordingly.

 

[urnotserious]

LOL at anyone that says Viv was better. He wasn't even in the same stratosphere that Virat lives in today.

 

[Dead Ball]

LOL at anyone that says Viv was better. He wasn't even in the same stratosphere that Virat lives in today.

Viv had an average of 64 in WCs (including a hundred in a WC Final), an average of 54 in Finals and a superb record in all kind of knockouts. Virat hasn't done anything remotely close on the big stage.

I am not saying he can't, i hope he does. But he hasn't yet.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Disagree here.

The World Cup is the biggest stage of cricket , especially if you're from the SC.

The reason Viv and SRT are considered GOAT is because they significantly improved their games in finals/WC. The greatest run chaser of all time having zero hundreds in chases in WC or finals would be a shame and a huge chink in his record.

An aberration is if its 2-3 matches. Kohli has played in 8 finals and hasn't even scored a 50!

We're talking about the potential GOAT in Kohli, so the standards have to be set very high accordingly.

Not often you get to wc final. Viv failed twice out of three. He is still a great player. Gauti clicked twice in two times in 2 we final. Those are all feather that’s it. Defining quality is consistency. All great players are great because they are consistent not because they have a success in wc final: sachin flopped in both wc finals. Won’t make him less of a batsman.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Don’t go by average in final. Yo score a 200 in one final and 3 sucks in next 3 final you will still average 50. That is misleading

 

[Dead Ball]

Not often you get to wc final. Viv failed twice out of three. He is still a great player. Gauti clicked twice in two times in 2 we final. Those are all feather that’s it. Defining quality is consistency. All great players are great because they are consistent not because they have a success in wc final: sachin flopped in both wc finals. Won’t make him less of a batsman.

Sachin flopped in two WC Finals but was beastly in all other WC matches. And he was beastly in tournament finals. Of course there are going to be a few failures here and there.

Here's a question - can you name a single ATG ODI batsman with poor record in finals or WCs? Only one i can think of is Lara (who averaged in his 20s in finals, but played a GOAT knock chasing in a final against Pak in 1993. Lara has a stellar record in WCs), but even he isn't mentioned in GOAT debates when it comes to ODIs.

SRT, Viv, Bevan, Ponting, Dhoni all of them have been great in finals/WCs barring a few failures here and there. Viv and SRT have the least chinks, therefore they are considered the best. Virat is nowehere close to them in big stages. In bi-laterals, i think Kohli may have already surpassed them both.

 

[Dead Ball]

Don’t go by average in final. Yo score a 200 in one final and 3 sucks in next 3 final you will still average 50. That is misleading

Whats your point? I know that, but 22 with zero 50s is still a terrible average any way you look at it.

 

[Mr.Q]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">He is at is again .. The Greatest chaser the game has ever seen .. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Fact?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Fact</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/SAvIND?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#SAvIND</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/imVkohli?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@imVkohli</a></p>— Michael Vaughan (@MichaelVaughan) <a href="https://twitter.com/MichaelVaughan/status/959126294607917057?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 1, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[jnaveen1980]

Sachin flopped in two WC Finals but was beastly in all other WC matches. And he was beastly in tournament finals. Of course there are going to be a few failures here and there.

Here's a question - can you name a single ATG ODI batsman with poor record in finals or WCs? Only one i can think of is Lara (who averaged in his 20s in finals, but played a GOAT knock chasing in a final against Pak in 1993. Lara has a stellar record in WCs), but even he isn't mentioned in GOAT debates when it comes to ODIs.

SRT, Viv, Bevan, Ponting, Dhoni all of them have been great in finals/WCs barring a few failures here and there. Viv and SRT have the least chinks, therefore they are considered the best. Virat is nowehere close to them in big stages. In bi-laterals, i think Kohli may have already surpassed them both.

Now WC to any finall . We cannot conveniently pick one innings and it is a great innings. Kohl’s 133 against srilanka at Hobart when India had to win certain no of overs is as good as any. He shredded Malinga into pieces. Richard is famous for his189 a bilateral ODI innings not his 138 in final

 

[Dead Ball]

Now WC to any finall . We cannot conveniently pick one innings and it is a great innings. Kohl’s 133 against srilanka at Hobart when India had to win certain no of overs is as good as any. He shredded Malinga into pieces. Richard is famous for his189 a bilateral ODI innings not his 138 in final

It was a great innings.

I can turn over your Gauti example the other way too, Abdur Razzaq played a better bilateral knock than Kohli has ever played against SA in 2000's. Doesn't make him a better bilateral player because Kohli is consistence personified in bilaterals. But he has to show the same consistency on the biggest stages,

I clearly mentioned WC and Finals. Kohli has not played a significant run chasing knock in either. All ATG ODI batsmen in HISTORY have performed on this stage. And it should be a criteria for Kohli as well. Not 'just a feather in the cap' as you mentioned. A player in a GOAT debate is expected to have at the very least, just ONE GREAT WC campaign. Kohli has none yet. SRT had 3 (1996,2003 and 2011), Viv had 3 too. I hope Kohli proves me wrong in 2019.

 

[urnotserious]

Viv had an average of 64 in WCs (including a hundred in a WC Final), an average of 54 in Finals and a superb record in all kind of knockouts. Virat hasn't done anything remotely close on the big stage.

I am not saying he can't, i hope he does. But he hasn't yet.

And Virat beats him on average, strike rate and better scoring rate against better bowlers on everything else. Everything.

I'll repeat it for you, everything.

 

[Dead Ball]

And Virat beats him on average, strike rate and better scoring rate against better bowlers on everything else. Everything.

I'll repeat it for you, everything.

Kohli has an SR of 92, Viv had an SR of 90 around 30-40 years back!

If you dont understand the difference in the context, there is no point arguing.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Kohli has an SR of 92, Viv had an SR of 90 around 30-40 years back!

If you dont understand the difference in the context, there is no point arguing.

So you are saying not much has changed since?

 

[Dead Ball]

So you are saying not much has changed since?

ODI's as a game has definitely changed since then. Kohli's SR does not stand out in this era the way Viv's did in his time.

 

[indipper]

Bowl me dollies for 10 years, I will become the ATG hitter.

 

[kingusama92]

I'm always stunned when people argue against Kohli being the GOAT ODI chaser.

There's absolutely no doubt.

 

[The_Odd_One]

I have no doubt in my mind that Kohli will break all ODI batting records by the time he retires.

Unbelievable conversion rate!

 

[jnaveen1980]

It was a great innings.

I can turn over your Gauti example the other way too, Abdur Razzaq played a better bilateral knock than Kohli has ever played against SA in 2000's. Doesn't make him a better bilateral player because Kohli is consistence personified in bilaterals. But he has to show the same consistency on the biggest stages,

I clearly mentioned WC and Finals. Kohli has not played a significant run chasing knock in either. All ATG ODI batsmen in HISTORY have performed on this stage. And it should be a criteria for Kohli as well. Not 'just a feather in the cap' as you mentioned. A player in a GOAT debate is expected to have at the very least, just ONE GREAT WC campaign. Kohli has none yet. SRT had 3 (1996,2003 and 2011), Viv had 3 too. I hope Kohli proves me wrong in 2019.

Inzamam apart from two innings in 1992 world cup did zilch. Anwar's 194, Ijaz's 134, Basit ali 127, Inzi's 149, Afridis 101 all came in bilateral or tri series lot of those innings are still celebrated. How many of us celebrate Sachin's 140 against Kenya or 152 against Namebia . Sachin's best ODI innings is not a world cup ODI innings. There are several better than that . They all came in bilaterals. WC innings doesn't automatically become better. Okay there are few like Gilchrist's 149, Aravinda's 103, Kapil's 175. But vast majority of great ODI innings come in bilateral or tri series

 

[GLORY OF '92]

Kohli is so far ahead it's crazy.

Even if he doesn't play another ODI his legacy is massive.

He will win a WC too to erase all doubts.

 

[BaankeJi]

Reasonable man/woman.

I am just a simple man.
Put a "Ji" in my username so that even when people are angry, they pay respect.

 

[giri26]

I don't know if he is the greatest but he is for sure one of the best. Brilliant innings by Virat, unfortunately due to the time zone, I couldn't watch the full game.

 

[dravidthewall]

One of the greatest chaser in the history of cricket...ATG cricketer

 

[Haripotter]

He does not have a series of chasing knocks away from home. If he did, I wouldn't even comment.

This is his first impressive chase away from home. If it was bumped for that reason, I have no problem.

U forgot his 183* and 133* outside India, valuable 40 odd in CT final against england and ODI series victories while chasing against Australia in Austin and many others.
How much more can one scan and try to downgrade this batsman. I'm sure it's tiring

 

[Indiafan]

No, you lot are just desperate.

Even Rahane has scored easily here because there's no pressure after the first two bowlers and no scoreboard pressure.

Yes, we are the ones putting down someone all experts in the world acknowledge as a great

 

[urnotserious]

Kohli has an SR of 92, Viv had an SR of 90 around 30-40 years back!

If you dont understand the difference in the context, there is no point arguing.

Virat has scored ONE and HALF times Viv's runs in roughly the same number of matches with a better strike rate, much much much much much better and a godly average(47 vs. 56) in an era with computer analysis and professional cricketers with a higher concentration of games like T20 that Viv never had to play.

If you cannot understand that(which you don't), there is no point in arguing(which there isn't, but what the hell).

 

[urnotserious]

Inzamam apart from two innings in 1992 world cup did zilch. Anwar's 194, Ijaz's 134, Basit ali 127, Inzi's 149, Afridis 101 all came in bilateral or tri series lot of those innings are still celebrated. How many of us celebrate Sachin's 140 against Kenya or 152 against Namebia . Sachin's best ODI innings is not a world cup ODI innings. There are several better than that . They all came in bilaterals. WC innings doesn't automatically become better. Okay there are few like Gilchrist's 149, Aravinda's 103, Kapil's 175. But vast majority of great ODI innings come in bilateral or tri series

Once Kohli scores in the world cup he'll comeback with "did he score these runs in the 70s and 80s? Does he have a time machine? No? Then he's not GOAT".

 

[Dead Ball]

Inzamam apart from two innings in 1992 world cup did zilch. Anwar's 194, Ijaz's 134, Basit ali 127, Inzi's 149, Afridis 101 all came in bilateral or tri series lot of those innings are still celebrated. How many of us celebrate Sachin's 140 against Kenya or 152 against Namebia . Sachin's best ODI innings is not a world cup ODI innings. There are several better than that . They all came in bilaterals. WC innings doesn't automatically become better. Okay there are few like Gilchrist's 149, Aravinda's 103, Kapil's 175. But vast majority of great ODI innings come in bilateral or tri series

I think you are missing my point here. I do think Kohli is a great batsman. But to be touted as the GOAT he has a few boxes left to tick. I really do not understand how anybody could argue otherwise.

Inzamam's massive failures in WC and Finals are the reason why he doesn't get mentioned in ODI GOAT debates when we are discussing SRT Viv or ABDV.

Even if you exclude SRTs scores against Kenya and Namibia and Zimbabwe in WC tourneys, he ends up with a solid record. If you exclude Kohli's bashing of Bangladesh etc. in WC, his record looks like that of a mediocre batsman in WC.

SRT's 98 against Pakistan is widely considered as one of his top 3 ODI knocks coming in a high pressure Ind-Pak encounter in a WC.

You guys seem to think he has already done enough to be considered a GOAT batsman. If he retires tomorrow, his record in WC and Finals will make for a sorry sight and pales in comparison to the greats of the previous era.

Is it too much to ask for the supposed GOAT ODI chaser to have ONE GOOD KNOCK in a WC knockout (or even the preliminary stages) and tournament final while chasing ?

However these are just criterion I have set for myself, you guys are free to consider him a GOAT batsman. I would wait till the 2019 WC to make my decision. I love Kohli and I hope he can lead India to victory in 2019 backed with solid performances with his bat.

 

[cricketjoshila]

I have a feeling that One of these WCs Kohli is going to beast it in such a way that he will put even Tendulkar to shame.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

I have a feeling that One of these WCs Kohli is going to beast it in such a way that he will put even Tendulkar to shame.

As it stands, Kohli needs just 1 World Cup to be the GOAT ODI batsman. His overall stats are so great and uniform it's hard to believe. There isn't a single country where he averages less than 45. That's one of the best cricketing stats I have seen considering sample size. WC aside, his overall stats are near flawless.

 

[Mamoon]

There is daylight between Kohli and every other batsman in history when it comes to chasing in ODIs. It is laughable to debate this.

 

[Stark]

I have a feeling that One of these WCs Kohli is going to beast it in such a way that he will put even Tendulkar to shame.

That is an overtly OTT statement. Sachin didn't scored in WC finals, but he was a legit Great at around 24 yrs of age. What he did in the 96 WC and then in 2003, both the events saw him being spectacular. The Indian team was not like the one we have today (composition + integrity), nor do we see the same pedigree of bowling attack (opposition + team's own). The last bit takes slightly away from Kohli, but he is more than making up for that since quite sometime now.

Kohli already has made his mark in the chasing circuit. The way he plays is quite distinctively his - scurrying for the runs than relying on boundaries all the time, timing the shots than be going after balls with brute force etc.

Age begets maturity, and once his jumpiness eases out, I am def expecting something crazy good from his side.

 

[Slog]

As it stands, Kohli needs just 1 World Cup to be the GOAT ODI batsman. His overall stats are so great and uniform it's hard to believe. There isn't a single country where he averages less than 45. That's one of the best cricketing stats I have seen considering sample size. WC aside, his overall stats are near flawless.

This!

He is already an ODI ATG and needs one mega WC semi or final innings to be the GOAT in ODIs

 

[R3verse Swing]

Can someone explain to me why it is important for a player to perform in a WC to be considered an ATG?

It's as bad as saying a player must perform in England to be considered an ATG.

For some context, Bradman played against pretty much 1 team and in 2 countries, England and Australia, no WC, no ODIs - and is considered GOAT.

 

[Stark]

Can someone explain to me why it is important for a player to perform in a WC to be considered an ATG?

Not everybody thinks like that. But because of pressure due to what is at stake, people are inclined to take it as the gold standard.

For some context, Bradman played against pretty much 1 team and in 2 countries, England and Australia, no WC, no ODIs - and is considered GOAT.

One Word - Era + Unpralleled success.

 

[Slog]

That is an overtly OTT statement. Sachin didn't scored in WC finals, but he was a legit Great at around 24 yrs of age. What he did in the 96 WC and then in 2003, both the events saw him being spectacular. The Indian team was not like the one we have today (composition + integrity), nor do we see the same pedigree of bowling attack (opposition + team's own). The last bit takes slightly away from Kohli, but he is more than making up for that since quite sometime now.

Kohli already has made his mark in the chasing circuit. The way he plays is quite distinctively his - scurrying for the runs than relying on boundaries all the time, timing the shots than be going after balls with brute force etc.

Age begets maturity, and once his jumpiness eases out, I am def expecting something crazy good from his side.

Kohli has been part of teams with much greater bowling attacks than Sachin ever was

 

[Slog]

For some context, Bradman played against pretty much 1 team and in 2 countries, England and Australia, no WC, no ODIs - and is considered GOAT.

Dont remember anyone ever calling Bradman the GOAT in ODIs...

 

[Slog]

Can someone explain to me why it is important for a player to perform in a WC to be considered an ATG?

Because ICC tournaments and some marquee bilateral series (Pak-Ind, Aus-SA) are the only time when ODIs matter

 

[Stark]

Kohli has been part of teams with much greater bowling attacks than Sachin ever was

That is precisely what I was indicating.

 

[Princejain191]

The question is not whether Virat is the greatest chaser or not, the question is that if Virat is not the greatest chaser, then who is? And though Virat does need to chase better in WC ODI matches but even with that hole in the CV, I wouldn't put Dhoni or Bevan ahead of Virat in chasing. For me, that answers the question.

 

[shah_1]

Can someone explain to me why it is important for a player to perform in a WC to be considered an ATG?

It's as bad as saying a player must perform in England to be considered an ATG.

For some context, Bradman played against pretty much 1 team and in 2 countries, England and Australia, no WC, no ODIs - and is considered GOAT.

He is an ATG but World Cup is the biggest ODI event ofcourse you have perform in that tournament.

All great players have done in the past, he needs to do the same.

.

 

[Hasan2K8]

Easily, without a doubt. Best in the business. Absolute beast when it comes to chasing. Pure class!

Love this guys hunger, drive, determination for wanting more, to be score, score and score and never satisfied. Unlike some others especially asian players who can get easily satisfied after some success.

Kohli has the Aussie mentality of 00s.

 

[barah_admi]

Hussey is the best LOI finisher I've ever seen, because the way he struck the ball, he could change the match in an over or two. Kohli is someone who is better at building innings and taking it down to the wire. Rarely does he explode (ala Gayle or Buttler).

So far, Kohli would be second on my list, but if he can provide a chase in a clutch world cup match or ct, then he'd be on par with Hussey.

 

[Mamoon]

Hussey is the best LOI finisher I've ever seen, because the way he struck the ball, he could change the match in an over or two. Kohli is someone who is better at building innings and taking it down to the wire. Rarely does he explode (ala Gayle or Buttler).

So far, Kohli would be second on my list, but if he can provide a chase in a clutch world cup match or ct, then he'd be on par with Hussey.

There have been many great finishers such has Hussey, Bevan and Dhoni, but what makes Kohli special is that he is the first ODI batsman in history who is not only a top-order anchor but also a great finisher. The game has never seen a two in one combo like him before.

No top-order batsman before him has anchored and finished so many games consistently.

He comes in early, grabs the bull by the horns and runs away with it. He doesn’t rely on the top-order to set a platform for him, and neither does he bank on others to finish the job - he sets the platform himself and then finishes the game off.

He is Tendulkar/Ponting and Dhoni/Bevan/Hussey rolled into one. He has redefined the role of a top-order batsman in ODIs.

He is one great World Cup away from becoming the GOAT ODI batsman, but he is the GOAT chaser already.