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[PICTURES] Is Virat Kohli the greatest ODI run chaser in history?

Mamoon said:
There have been many great finishers such has Hussey, Bevan and Dhoni, but what makes Kohli special is that he is the first ODI batsman in history who is not only a top-order anchor but also a great finisher. The game has never seen a two in one combo like him before.

No top-order batsman before him has anchored and finished so many games consistently.

He comes in early, grabs the bull by the horns and runs away with it. He doesn’t rely on the top-order to set a platform for him, and neither does he bank on others to finish the job - he sets the platform himself and then finishes the game off.

He is Tendulkar/Ponting and Dhoni/Bevan/Hussey rolled into one. He has redefined the role of a top-order batsman in ODIs.

He is one great World Cup away from becoming the GOAT ODI batsman, but he is the GOAT chaser already.
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Exactly. Well put.

People really underestimate scoreboard pressure.

What Kohli has done is remarkable.

Being Pakistan fans doesn't mean we shouldn't appreciate magnificent cricket from an Indian.
 
Greatest chaser shouldn't be debated to be honest. Anyone nitpicking is simply missing the point. He doesn't have to be good in everything, he has to be better than others.

Anyone who doesn't agree should name other candidate and make a case. I don't think it's easy to make a case for some one else when it comes to chasing.

What happen in so and so match to Kohli or XYZ did this in one match in career is a childish way to look at this. I don't recall anyone having such consistency when chasing, but it hardly means that Kohli is going to chase all scores every time. Such expectations are idiotic.
 
Kohli is already a great of the game.... sure he goes missing when he is needed the most, or when the going gets tough, but then again nobody is perfect.
 
Syed1 said:
Kohli is already a great of the game.... sure he goes missing when he is needed the most, or when the going gets tough, but then again nobody is perfect.
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That is a trait he shares with the likes of Wasim Akram and Shoaib Akhtar. Although, in fairness, he hasn't feigned an injury like 96 quarter final at bangalore.
 
AMSS said:
That is a trait he shares with the likes of Wasim Akram and Shoaib Akhtar. Although, in fairness, he hasn't feigned an injury like 96 quarter final at bangalore.
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Did you forget the 1992 Final?
 
shah_1 said:
Did you forget the 1992 Final?
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The poster I quoted did forget Kohli's CT final knock as well as the fact that his career is only half done so yeah, my post was a bit in the same vein.
 
Kohli has only been part of 7 successful run chases against Eng, Aus and SA, in their backyards. Out of a total of 18 matches where he has had to chase in those countries.

Not really GOAT of all time chase material.

Now, just looking at the guy who I consider to be the second greatest ODI batsman of all time, Ricky Ponting who batting second 28 times against Eng, India, SA and Pak, he won 17, with an average of 77. Kohli's average in those wins is higher but overall number of wins are lower. Not including world cups.

I think a similar story would be repeated if we looked at Viv, AB and Amla.

So, just to bring things back to reality, KOhli is a terrific ODI batsman, maybe even great, but he is still some way off from being the greatest. As a chaser, or rather, finisher, he still has some m#way to go as well.

Indians shouldnt get angry at that, it's just a fact and it doesn't stop Kohli being the best over the last couple of years but history is far bigger than just 2008 to now.
 
barah_admi said:
Kohli has only been part of 7 successful run chases against Eng, Aus and SA, in their backyards. Out of a total of 18 matches where he has had to chase in those countries.

Not really GOAT of all time chase material.

Now, just looking at the guy who I consider to be the second greatest ODI batsman of all time, Ricky Ponting who batting second 28 times against Eng, India, SA and Pak, he won 17, with an average of 77. Kohli's average in those wins is higher but overall number of wins are lower. Not including world cups.

I think a similar story would be repeated if we looked at Viv, AB and Amla.

So, just to bring things back to reality, KOhli is a terrific ODI batsman, maybe even great, but he is still some way off from being the greatest. As a chaser, or rather, finisher, he still has some m#way to go as well.

Indians shouldnt get angry at that, it's just a fact and it doesn't stop Kohli being the best over the last couple of years but history is far bigger than just 2008 to now.
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Well put. If Ricky did not struggle in IND and had retired in 09', he would have been remembered in a far fonder tone.
 
barah_admi said:
Kohli has only been part of 7 successful run chases against Eng, Aus and SA, in their backyards. Out of a total of 18 matches where he has had to chase in those countries.

Not really GOAT of all time chase material.

Now, just looking at the guy who I consider to be the second greatest ODI batsman of all time, Ricky Ponting who batting second 28 times against Eng, India, SA and Pak, he won 17, with an average of 77. Kohli's average in those wins is higher but overall number of wins are lower. Not including world cups.

I think a similar story would be repeated if we looked at Viv, AB and Amla.

So, just to bring things back to reality, KOhli is a terrific ODI batsman, maybe even great, but he is still some way off from being the greatest. As a chaser, or rather, finisher, he still has some m#way to go as well.

Indians shouldnt get angry at that, it's just a fact and it doesn't stop Kohli being the best over the last couple of years but history is far bigger than just 2008 to now.
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Three top teams during Ponting entire career will be SA, Inda and SL.

Ponting while batting second against top 3 teams in their backyard

28 ODI's - avg 33 zero ton.
 
Kohli while batting second - avg 65 , SR 93
Ponting while batting second - avg 41 , SR 76

Kohli while batting second outside of home - Avg 66 , SR 91
Ponting while batting second outside of home - Avg 46 , SR 78

Now anyone of think that avg of 65 right now is equivalent of average of 40-45 10 years ago then it's a different issue. How many 65 average batsmen we have right now? How many 40-45 average batsmen we had when Ponting played?

If you can't make the cut over all then it's meaningless to apply 10 filters to prove that Ponting was a better chaser. If you feel over all they are in the same ball park as a chaser then sure drill down and find out how they differ when you apply more filters.
 
Buffet said:
Three top teams during Ponting entire career will be SA, Inda and SL.

Ponting while batting second against top 3 teams in their backyard

28 ODI's - avg 33 zero ton.
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My statement is wrong here. I just checked the W/L during Ponting's career and Pakistan should be in the top as well. That will take Ponting's number higher.

Anyway, point in previous post about drilling down applies. Ponting's record as chaser is not in the same ball park after accounting for different era. That makes it useless exercise to apply bunch of filter and then compare Ponting with Kohli.
 
Buffet said:
Three top teams during Ponting entire career will be SA, Inda and SL.

Ponting while batting second against top 3 teams in their backyard

28 ODI's - avg 33 zero ton.
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You are doing stats wrong. The way to go is to slice and dice *till* you get that sliver of stat where Kohli lags behind the Vivs and Pontings (but not Sachin, so be careful) of the world. Then you need to keep badgering how that sliver of stat is the most important and defining trait of an ATG ODI bat.

So keep slicing and dicing!
 
barah_admi said:
Kohli has only been part of 7 successful run chases against Eng, Aus and SA, in their backyards. Out of a total of 18 matches where he has had to chase in those countries.

Not really GOAT of all time chase material.

Now, just looking at the guy who I consider to be the second greatest ODI batsman of all time, Ricky Ponting who batting second 28 times against Eng, India, SA and Pak, he won 17, with an average of 77. Kohli's average in those wins is higher but overall number of wins are lower. Not including world cups.

I think a similar story would be repeated if we looked at Viv, AB and Amla.

So, just to bring things back to reality, KOhli is a terrific ODI batsman, maybe even great, but he is still some way off from being the greatest. As a chaser, or rather, finisher, he still has some m#way to go as well.

Indians shouldnt get angry at that, it's just a fact and it doesn't stop Kohli being the best over the last couple of years but history is far bigger than just 2008 to now.
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#AlternateFacts
 
barah_admi said:
Kohli has only been part of 7 successful run chases against Eng, Aus and SA, in their backyards. Out of a total of 18 matches where he has had to chase in those countries.

Not really GOAT of all time chase material.

Now, just looking at the guy who I consider to be the second greatest ODI batsman of all time, Ricky Ponting who batting second 28 times against Eng, India, SA and Pak, he won 17, with an average of 77. Kohli's average in those wins is higher but overall number of wins are lower. Not including world cups.

I think a similar story would be repeated if we looked at Viv, AB and Amla.

So, just to bring things back to reality, KOhli is a terrific ODI batsman, maybe even great, but he is still some way off from being the greatest. As a chaser, or rather, finisher, he still has some m#way to go as well.

Indians shouldnt get angry at that, it's just a fact and it doesn't stop Kohli being the best over the last couple of years but history is far bigger than just 2008 to now.
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ManFan said:
Well put. If Ricky did not struggle in IND and had retired in 09', he would have been remembered in a far fonder tone.
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Stats only tell half the story, and in this case, it doesn't even tell a quarter. For nearly 80% of his career, Ponting has played with arguably the greatest ODI attack of all time.

How often did he have to chase big totals? Having a good average in wins means little when most of the time you are chasing below par totals. Similarly, Viv played in an extremely strong attack and had the luxury of not chasing big totals.

As far as Amla is concerned, you don't need stats to know that he has been a poor chaser when it comes to big totals. I can hardly recall him gunning down a big total, and although de Villiers has done it more often, he is still nowhere near comparable to Kohli in this regard.

He has taken South Africa to the brink on many occasions, only to get out at the wrong time with South Africa losing the game. This is where Kohli trumps him - he rarely gets out during a big chase after getting set, and ends up finishing the job himself.

Throughout his career, Kohli has been tasked with chasing 300+ totals far more frequently than Ponting, Viv, de Villiers or Amla, and his success rate has been phenomenal.

To make a case for any batsman other than Kohli as the GOAT ODI chaser is utterly ridiculous. He is levels ahead of every other ODI batsman in history.
 
Kohli has never done a chase on December 31st if the year. So he is not a goat. Lol Arguments are getting down to ridiculous levels. Backyard , select tteams. Have we missed weather conditions so that we get a zero innings matching those conditions.
 
I do not know whether Kohli is greatest or not , but there is no doubt he is a freak of one kind. That consistency is something , not many have.
 
The debate is nonsensical

Virat is by far the best and we should close this thread so people could stop wasting their time writing long essays.
 
Sadevdesai said:
I wonder what PPers would write if he played for us !!!!!
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Indian or Pakistani he is one of the best of all time chasing.

As for the greatest of all time in ODI's, he is way behind and will never be better than Sir Viv Richards.
 
barah_admi said:
Kohli has only been part of 7 successful run chases against Eng, Aus and SA, in their backyards. Out of a total of 18 matches where he has had to chase in those countries.

Not really GOAT of all time chase material.

Now, just looking at the guy who I consider to be the second greatest ODI batsman of all time, Ricky Ponting who batting second 28 times against Eng, India, SA and Pak, he won 17, with an average of 77. Kohli's average in those wins is higher but overall number of wins are lower. Not including world cups.

I think a similar story would be repeated if we looked at Viv, AB and Amla.

So, just to bring things back to reality, KOhli is a terrific ODI batsman, maybe even great, but he is still some way off from being the greatest. As a chaser, or rather, finisher, he still has some m#way to go as well.

Indians shouldnt get angry at that, it's just a fact and it doesn't stop Kohli being the best over the last couple of years but history is far bigger than just 2008 to now.
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Ponting will always remain my favourite batsman.

But he doesn't deserve to be compared to Kohli when it comes to chasing.
 
Virat Kohli is unquestionably the best chaser in ODI history, anyone who denies this is nitpicking but what they don't realize is that if they did the same thing to other batsmen that could make anyone look bad. As he's only human but as far as humans go in cricket I think Virat Kohli is probably one of the best.
 
KingKhanWC said:
Indian or Pakistani he is one of the best of all time chasing.

As for the greatest of all time in ODI's, he is way behind and will never be better than Sir Viv Richards.
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Have to disagree.

Viv was amazing but Kohli will surpass him soon.
 
Statically so far Kohli is way ahead of the next best while batting second. Both ABD and Kohli have cricket left in them , so this might change in future.

[table=class: grid, align: center]
[tr][td]Player [/td][td]Span [/td][td]Mat [/td][td]Runs [/td][td]Avg [/td][td]SR [/td][td]100 [/td][td]50 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]V Kohli (INDIA) [/td][td]2008-2018 [/td][td]118 [/td][td]5597 [/td][td]65.84 [/td][td]93.42 [/td][td]20 [/td][td]27 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]AB de Villiers (Afr/SA) [/td][td]2005-2017 [/td][td]108 [/td][td]4172 [/td][td]57.94 [/td][td]94.86 [/td][td]7 [/td][td]28 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]MG Bevan (AUS) [/td][td]1994-2004 [/td][td]112 [/td][td]2882 [/td][td]56.5 [/td][td]67.6 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]19 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]MJ Clarke (AUS) [/td][td]2003-2015 [/td][td]94 [/td][td]2696 [/td][td]53.92 [/td][td]76.33 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]21 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]JE Root (ENG) [/td][td]2013-2018 [/td][td]50 [/td][td]1809 [/td][td]53.2 [/td][td]82.33 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]11 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]SR Watson (AUS) [/td][td]2002-2015 [/td][td]80 [/td][td]2640 [/td][td]52.8 [/td][td]90.75 [/td][td]5 [/td][td]15 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]MS Dhoni (INDIA) [/td][td]2004-2018 [/td][td]172 [/td][td]4324 [/td][td]50.27 [/td][td]81.5 [/td][td]2 [/td][td]30 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]ML Hayden (AUS) [/td][td]1993-2008 [/td][td]68 [/td][td]2450 [/td][td]50 [/td][td]79.15 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]20 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]CG Greenidge (WI) [/td][td]1975-1991 [/td][td]74 [/td][td]2996 [/td][td]49.11 [/td][td]64.83 [/td][td]7 [/td][td]16 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]SM Gavaskar (INDIA) [/td][td]1975-1987 [/td][td]53 [/td][td]1905 [/td][td]48.84 [/td][td]61.45 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]18 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]JJ Roy (ENG) [/td][td]2015-2018 [/td][td]26 [/td][td]1119 [/td][td]48.65 [/td][td]113.37 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]6 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]MJ Guptill (NZ) [/td][td]2009-2018 [/td][td]73 [/td][td]2728 [/td][td]47.85 [/td][td]92.66 [/td][td]7 [/td][td]14 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]A Bagai (CAN) [/td][td]2003-2013 [/td][td]34 [/td][td]1191 [/td][td]47.64 [/td][td]72.35 [/td][td]2 [/td][td]9 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]WJ Cronje (SA) [/td][td]1992-2000 [/td][td]90 [/td][td]2658 [/td][td]47.46 [/td][td]75.29 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]20 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]S Dhawan (INDIA) [/td][td]2010-2018 [/td][td]56 [/td][td]2358 [/td][td]47.16 [/td][td]95.15 [/td][td]7 [/td][td]12 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Misbah-ul-Haq (PAK) [/td][td]2002-2015 [/td][td]80 [/td][td]2331 [/td][td]45.7 [/td][td]72.68 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]19 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]G Gambhir (INDIA) [/td][td]2003-2013 [/td][td]81 [/td][td]3093 [/td][td]45.48 [/td][td]86.15 [/td][td]6 [/td][td]21 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]JH Kallis (ICC/SA) [/td][td]1996-2014 [/td][td]170 [/td][td]5575 [/td][td]44.95 [/td][td]71.91 [/td][td]5 [/td][td]45 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]IVA Richards (WI) [/td][td]1975-1991 [/td][td]105 [/td][td]3010 [/td][td]44.92 [/td][td]86.39 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]21 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]IJL Trott (ENG) [/td][td]2009-2013 [/td][td]36 [/td][td]1211 [/td][td]44.85 [/td][td]73.79 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]10 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]GC Smith (SA) [/td][td]2002-2013 [/td][td]99 [/td][td]3841 [/td][td]44.14 [/td][td]84.3 [/td][td]7 [/td][td]27 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]TM Dilshan (SL) [/td][td]1999-2016 [/td][td]138 [/td][td]4104 [/td][td]44.12 [/td][td]89.74 [/td][td]11 [/td][td]15 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]SPD Smith (AUS) [/td][td]2010-2018 [/td][td]52 [/td][td]1497 [/td][td]44.02 [/td][td]84.52 [/td][td]4 [/td][td]7 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]KS Williamson (NZ) [/td][td]2010-2018 [/td][td]54 [/td][td]1887 [/td][td]43.88 [/td][td]79.41 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]12 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]RR Sarwan (WI) [/td][td]2001-2013 [/td][td]99 [/td][td]3066 [/td][td]43.8 [/td][td]74.92 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]20 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Q de Kock (SA) [/td][td]2013-2017 [/td][td]40 [/td][td]1615 [/td][td]43.64 [/td][td]105.14 [/td][td]4 [/td][td]6 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Javed Miandad (PAK) [/td][td]1976-1996 [/td][td]101 [/td][td]3041 [/td][td]43.44 [/td][td]66.84 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]23 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]HM Amla (SA) [/td][td]2008-2017 [/td][td]68 [/td][td]2584 [/td][td]43.06 [/td][td]84.03 [/td][td]6 [/td][td]15 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]GP Thorpe (ENG) [/td][td]1993-2002 [/td][td]46 [/td][td]1372 [/td][td]42.87 [/td][td]71.19 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]13 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]S Chanderpaul (WI) [/td][td]1994-2011 [/td][td]143 [/td][td]4455 [/td][td]42.83 [/td][td]71.46 [/td][td]6 [/td][td]31 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]L Klusener (SA) [/td][td]1996-2004 [/td][td]90 [/td][td]1670 [/td][td]42.82 [/td][td]95.15 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]9 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Saeed Anwar (PAK) [/td][td]1989-2003 [/td][td]107 [/td][td]3849 [/td][td]42.76 [/td][td]81.03 [/td][td]10 [/td][td]20 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]MEK Hussey (AUS) [/td][td]2004-2012 [/td][td]71 [/td][td]1197 [/td][td]42.75 [/td][td]73.12 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]7 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]BC Lara (ICC/WI) [/td][td]1990-2007 [/td][td]166 [/td][td]5425 [/td][td]42.71 [/td][td]78.11 [/td][td]9 [/td][td]28 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]AD Mathews (SL) [/td][td]2008-2018 [/td][td]91 [/td][td]1915 [/td][td]42.55 [/td][td]82.75 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]13 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]SR Tendulkar (INDIA) [/td][td]1989-2012 [/td][td]242 [/td][td]8720 [/td][td]42.33 [/td][td]88.44 [/td][td]17 [/td][td]52 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]RG Twose (NZ) [/td][td]1995-2001 [/td][td]43 [/td][td]1185 [/td][td]42.32 [/td][td]75.33 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]10 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]MD Crowe (NZ) [/td][td]1983-1995 [/td][td]67 [/td][td]2282 [/td][td]42.25 [/td][td]72.9 [/td][td]2 [/td][td]17 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]RT Ponting (AUS) [/td][td]1995-2011 [/td][td]162 [/td][td]5074 [/td][td]41.93 [/td][td]76.34 [/td][td]8 [/td][td]32 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]HH Dippenaar (Afr/SA) [/td][td]2000-2007 [/td][td]66 [/td][td]1921 [/td][td]41.76 [/td][td]67.05 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]17 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]A Symonds (AUS) [/td][td]1998-2009 [/td][td]90 [/td][td]1538 [/td][td]41.56 [/td][td]92.09 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]9 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]RG Sharma (INDIA) [/td][td]2007-2018 [/td][td]105 [/td][td]3384 [/td][td]41.26 [/td][td]83.1 [/td][td]6 [/td][td]22 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]EJG Morgan (ENG/IRE) [/td][td]2007-2018 [/td][td]96 [/td][td]2797 [/td][td]41.13 [/td][td]90.9 [/td][td]5 [/td][td]16 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]F du Plessis (SA) [/td][td]2011-2017 [/td][td]52 [/td][td]1685 [/td][td]41.09 [/td][td]87.44 [/td][td]2 [/td][td]13 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]ME Trescothick (ENG) [/td][td]2000-2006 [/td][td]57 [/td][td]2054 [/td][td]41.08 [/td][td]86.26 [/td][td]6 [/td][td]10 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Inzamam-ul-Haq (Asia/PAK) [/td][td]1991-2007 [/td][td]174 [/td][td]4796 [/td][td]40.99 [/td][td]72.84 [/td][td]4 [/td][td]30 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]LD Chandimal (SL) [/td][td]2010-2018 [/td][td]61 [/td][td]1633 [/td][td]40.82 [/td][td]75.98 [/td][td]2 [/td][td]11 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]AJ Strauss (ENG) [/td][td]2004-2011 [/td][td]64 [/td][td]2243 [/td][td]40.78 [/td][td]84.35 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]15 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]AJ Lamb (ENG) [/td][td]1982-1992 [/td][td]61 [/td][td]1916 [/td][td]40.76 [/td][td]74.93 [/td][td]2 [/td][td]9 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]G Kirsten (SA) [/td][td]1993-2003 [/td][td]95 [/td][td]3283 [/td][td]40.53 [/td][td]70.32 [/td][td]6 [/td][td]23 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]KC Sangakkara (Asia/ICC/SL) [/td][td]2000-2015 [/td][td]181 [/td][td]5400 [/td][td]40.29 [/td][td]79.05 [/td][td]7 [/td][td]33 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]AC Gilchrist (AUS) [/td][td]1997-2008 [/td][td]136 [/td][td]4789 [/td][td]40.24 [/td][td]100.82 [/td][td]8 [/td][td]32 [/td][/tr]
[/table]
 
Kohli has 5 100's while chasing 300+ scores and winning
362/1 Vs Australia : Kohli-100(52)*
356/7 Vs England : Kohli - 122(105)
351-4 Vs Australia : Kohli - 115(66)*
330-4 Vs Pakistan : Kohli - 183(148)
321/3 Vs Sri Lanka: Kohli - 133(86)*

* Virat has 20 hundreds while chasing, Next is Tendulkar with 17, then daylight and Gayle & Dilshan with 11.

* Virat has 18 hundreds while chasing and winning, with Tendulkar at 14. No one else has scored 10.

* Averages 65 while chasing with strike rate of 93, second best is ABDV with 57. (Min 50 innings)

These are staggering stats.

There has never been a better chase in the history of the game.
 
Good on him for scoring his first ton in South Africa and first match-winning ton in Australia, England and South Africa against the home attack. If he continues doing this for a few more years, there is no reason why he shouldn't displace Ricky Ponting from the #3 spot in the all-time ODI XI. Fantastic batsman.
 
Mamoon said:
Stats only tell half the story, and in this case, it doesn't even tell a quarter. For nearly 80% of his career, Ponting has played with arguably the greatest ODI attack of all time.

How often did he have to chase big totals? Having a good average in wins means little when most of the time you are chasing below par totals. Similarly, Viv played in an extremely strong attack and had the luxury of not chasing big totals.

As far as Amla is concerned, you don't need stats to know that he has been a poor chaser when it comes to big totals. I can hardly recall him gunning down a big total, and although de Villiers has done it more often, he is still nowhere near comparable to Kohli in this regard.

He has taken South Africa to the brink on many occasions, only to get out at the wrong time with South Africa losing the game. This is where Kohli trumps him - he rarely gets out during a big chase after getting set, and ends up finishing the job himself.

Throughout his career, Kohli has been tasked with chasing 300+ totals far more frequently than Ponting, Viv, de Villiers or Amla, and his success rate has been phenomenal.

To make a case for any batsman other than Kohli as the GOAT ODI chaser is utterly ridiculous. He is levels ahead of every other ODI batsman in history.
Click to expand...

I would like to remind you that chasing is only half the game. Setting a target is just as crucial a job and requires a different set of skills and is something that batsmen like Amla and de Villiers are better at than Kohli. Being the best chaser ever does not make Kohli the best batsman ever. Just like Waqar being one of the best at defending a target does not automatically make him the best bowler ever. The second innings of a match sticks to the mind better than the first innings but each innings is equally important in winning a game.

Secondly, Ponting, Viv, Inzamam and a fee others have also anchored innings (whatever anchoring someone like Viv would do) and finished off the innings in the past. Kohli is not unique in this aspect but he may well be the best at it.
 
Bilal7 said:
Good on him for scoring his first ton in South Africa and first match-winning ton in Australia, England and South Africa against the home attack. If he continues doing this for a few more years, there is no reason why he shouldn't displace Ricky Ponting from the #3 spot in the all-time ODI XI. Fantastic batsman.
Click to expand...

the problem here is that this is no longer a yardstick to go by ... a vast majority of PP told you that Kohli is a great without bothering to do a microanalysis using Statsguru. Some things dont require certification from SG. You just know that the player is above the rest when you watch them bat over a long period of time. This is exactly the same reason why no Waqar is a Great ODI bowler without any major trophies to show for it.
 
Tusker said:
the problem here is that this is no longer a yardstick to go by ... a vast majority of PP told you that Kohli is a great without bothering to do a microanalysis using Statsguru. Some things dont require certification from SG. You just know that the player is above the rest when you watch them bat over a long period of time. This is exactly the same reason why no Waqar is a Great ODI bowler without any major trophies to show for it.
Click to expand...

Waqar was a big bottler when it counted most so everything else he did in ODI's is irrelevant, and here's the thing, the trophy cabinet may be empty and that's fine but you need to perform at a respectable level in tournaments, now it doesn't have to be spectacular because there are other factors to look at such as the strength of an individual team, you"ll find that in stronger bowling attacks where you have some support there's more comfort to perform other times not so much. That guy got spanked by India from genesis all the way to revelations, that's the first thing that comes to mind when I look at Waqar's ODI career.
 
Tusker said:
the problem here is that this is no longer a yardstick to go by ... a vast majority of PP told you that Kohli is a great without bothering to do a microanalysis using Statsguru. Some things dont require certification from SG. You just know that the player is above the rest when you watch them bat over a long period of time. This is exactly the same reason why no Waqar is a Great ODI bowler without any major trophies to show for it.
Click to expand...

I didn't mention trophies or anything like that because I don't want to discuss Kohli's WC performances until 2019.

Microanalysis is only done for the very best players. No one cares how much Rahane or Fakhar average in a specific country, them just scoring runs is what matters. However, when you are competing with the Vivs and Pontings of the world, you need to be more than a FTB and HTB and Kohli's most recent century was a very crucial one for that reason. Before this, he did not have a single match-winning hundred against Australia, England and South Africa away and he hasn't played a single away game against Pakistan on top of that, so that was four top teams he still had to win games against in their backyard. This hundred shows he has evolved as a player and for me at least, is one of his best.
 
Tusker said:
the problem here is that this is no longer a yardstick to go by ... a vast majority of PP told you that Kohli is a great without bothering to do a microanalysis using Statsguru. Some things dont require certification from SG. You just know that the player is above the rest when you watch them bat over a long period of time. This is exactly the same reason why Waqar is still considered a Great ODI bowler without any major trophies to show for it.
Click to expand...

Corrected
 
shaz619 said:
Waqar was a big bottler when it counted most so everything else he did in ODI's is irrelevant, and here's the thing, the trophy cabinet may be empty and that's fine but you need to perform at a respectable level in tournaments, now it doesn't have to be spectacular because there are other factors to look at such as the strength of an individual team, you"ll find that in stronger bowling attacks where you have some support there's more comfort to perform other times not so much. That guy got spanked by India from genesis all the way to revelations, that's the first thing that comes to mind when I look at Waqar's ODI career.
Click to expand...

Waqar bowled well in the 96 World Cup until the final overs of the Indian innings. I wouldn't hold that against him especially considering that Pakistan did not have Wasim to exert control at the other end.
 
Thread is about GOAT chaser and Kohli has definitely overtaken everyone.. As a complete batsmen he is still in his prime so he has potential and form to become GOAT as well depends on 2019 WC hopefully he has a sachinesque one to settle the debate once and for all..
 
Bilal7 said:
I didn't mention trophies or anything like that because I don't want to discuss Kohli's WC performances until 2019.

Microanalysis is only done for the very best players. No one cares how much Rahane or Fakhar average in a specific country, them just scoring runs is what matters. However, when you are competing with the Vivs and Pontings of the world, you need to be more than a FTB and HTB and Kohli's most recent century was a very crucial one for that reason. Before this, he did not have a single match-winning hundred against Australia, England and South Africa away and he hasn't played a single away game against Pakistan on top of that, so that was four top teams he still had to win games against in their backyard. This hundred shows he has evolved as a player and for me at least, is one of his best.
Click to expand...

The problem with microanalysis is that they are invariably based on small sample size and sometimes flat out wrong assumptions never mind consistent application to all players. For instance there is no real difference in facing SA bowlers in say Eng or Aus or NZ in some tournament than it is on SA.
 
Indian fans: Kohli or Dhoni in a high pressure chase (not WC or CT KOs)?
 
If my team had to chase down a score of 300+ the first player on my mind will be Kohli.

The talk of FTB and HTB is perhaps relevant in some cases, but facts are facts, if Kohli can score tons under the FTB/HTB tag, then why can't other players in the same match on the same pitch?

I would be more interested in runs scored where Kohli has to bat first and set a target compared to runs scored while chasing a target.
 
Tusker said:
The problem with microanalysis is that they are invariably based on small sample size and sometimes flat out wrong assumptions never mind consistent application to all players. For instance there is no real difference in facing SA bowlers in say Eng or Aus or NZ in some tournament than it is on SA.
Click to expand...

Sometimes, yeah. For example, Kohli I believe has a low average in the West Indies or Sri Lanka but everyone knows that is just an anomaly.

However, in this case, it was Kohli's weakness against the moving ball that was causing it. No shame in that because no ATG player is born perfect. They improve and so has Kohli and this match-winning hundred shows that he has come a long way since 2014. South African pacers know South African conditions better than anyone else and thus, can take advantage of them better than anyone else. That is why facing them at home and doing well against them is a mark of a great player.
 
Bilal7 said:
Indian fans: Kohli or Dhoni in a high pressure chase (not WC or CT KOs)?
Click to expand...

Kohli and it’s not even close.

Dhoni cannot won you games when the runs to be scored is more than 100. He used to be a very good finisher in high pressure situations with smaller target to chase.
 
Bilal7 said:
Indian fans: Kohli or Dhoni in a high pressure chase (not WC or CT KOs)?
Click to expand...

You're asking the wrong group of fans which automatically assume everything in the present is the best thing since jesus turned water into whine
 
troodon said:
Kohli and it’s not even close.

Dhoni cannot won you games when the runs to be scored is more than 100. He used to be a very good finisher in high pressure situations with smaller target to chase.
Click to expand...

I would say he still is but yeah, seems like Kohli has surpassed Dhoni in the eyes of the Indian public.
 
shaz619 said:
You're asking the wrong group of fans which automatically assume everything in the present is the best thing since jesus turned water into whine
Click to expand...

You would pick Dhoni then? I'm split on this because although Dhoni has the keeper-batsman position under lock and key in my all-time ODI XI, he's always been more of a finisher and it's tough to compare him to a top-order batsman.
 
An ODI great without a doubt. He is anchor and finisher rolled into one. Just needs a winning knock in a icc tournament to be considered the GOAT.
 
Bilal7 said:
You would pick Dhoni then? I'm split on this because although Dhoni has the keeper-batsman position under lock and key in my all-time ODI XI, he's always been more of a finisher and it's tough to compare him to a top-order batsman.
Click to expand...

I think you have answered your question. Dhoni was a finisher came in at #6, while Kohli is a chaser+finisher who comes in at #3. Barring Dhoni's self promotion of WC 2011 finals of course.
 
Bilal7 said:
You would pick Dhoni then? I'm split on this because although Dhoni has the keeper-batsman position under lock and key in my all-time ODI XI, he's always been more of a finisher and it's tough to compare him to a top-order batsman.
Click to expand...

Defo Dhoni for me, I've seen him pull of some incredible chases in crunch games. In his prime the guy was scary at handling pressure scenario's and always batted so well with the tail, he could back himself to get 20 off the final over or so with a wicket or two in hand that's the type of batsman he was. The reflex's have declined now but he is still good enough for the international level. The other thing is he was a keeper as well, can't imagine what he'd have been like had he played as a specialist.
 
If India were playing my team in a World Cup final, I'd be more afraid of Dhoni then Kohli
 
Bilal7 said:
I would say he still is but yeah, seems like Kohli has surpassed Dhoni in the eyes of the Indian public.
Click to expand...

Only as a pure top order batsman. MSD is a gun keeper/captain also and I don't think there will be another player like him .
 
[MENTION=129948]Bilal7[/MENTION],

Former English captain Michael Vaughan tweeted Virat Kohli is the greatest chaser of all time.

You see.. This is the problem with cricket greats. They are not bothered to "Micro-Macro" analyze any player before commenting. As far as I understand YOU are the only ATG analyzer so work as fast as you can to correct Vaughan and all those Greats commented. Tweet them at the earliest.. !!

It looks like there is something eating you from inside whenever Kohli scores runs. Treat it ASAP lest it can be fatal. I am really serious!!
 
Marikar said:
[MENTION=129948]Bilal7[/MENTION],

Former English captain Michael Vaughan tweeted Virat Kohli is the greatest chaser of all time.

You see.. This is the problem with cricket greats. They are not bothered to "Micro-Macro" analyze any player before commenting. As far as I understand YOU are the only ATG analyzer so work as fast as you can to correct Vaughan and all those Greats commented. Tweet them at the earliest.. !!

It looks like there is something eating you from inside whenever Kohli scores runs. Treat it ASAP lest it can be fatal. I am really serious!!
Click to expand...


After all the arguments he has still managed not to convince anyone except himself lol Scoring a 100 is hard enough (Misbha would know how hard it is). But 17 hundreds while chasing is a distant reality for mere mortals. I guess he will have a problem him not scoring when the moon and other stars aligned lol
 
Marikar said:
[MENTION=129948]Bilal7[/MENTION],

Former English captain Michael Vaughan tweeted Virat Kohli is the greatest chaser of all time.
Click to expand...

You lost your point right here. Trying to substantiate a point based on what other's say is a sign of weakness. Plus Michael Vaughan is not rated highly by any stretch of the imagination. He is not even a footnote in English Cricket.
 
R3verse Swing said:
You lost your point right here. Trying to substantiate a point based on what other's say is a sign of weakness. Plus Michael Vaughan is not rated highly by any stretch of the imagination. He is not even a footnote in English Cricket.
Click to expand...



And who are you compared to Michael Vaughan? Not even a footnote in humanity.. People can believe what they want mostly Pakistanis can never digest Indians being the best so they will come at some half arsed arguments.. But rest of the world will acknowledge Kohli as the GOAT chaser..
 
R3verse Swing said:
You lost your point right here. Trying to substantiate a point based on what other's say is a sign of weakness. Plus Michael Vaughan is not rated highly by any stretch of the imagination. He is not even a footnote in English Cricket.
Click to expand...

You are absolutely right. But when cricket experts say, "a non Indian batsman is the greatest batsman", PPers get delighted and are over the cloud, but when they praise any Indian batsman, PPers come with same tune, "they want IPL contract".
 
Last edited:
You too lost everything here. I was being sarcastic. You mean I have to stick with Bilal7's microanalysis (great) despite of great international players.

English players have short span. I mean however great they can be. Using your yardstick, I will have to trash Alan Lamb, David Gower, Edmonds and Emburey... Nah.. Nah, just because they don't exert much influence in today's world, their significance can't be overlooked. Hence Michael Vaughan.
 
Marikar said:
You too lost everything here. I was being sarcastic. You mean I have to stick with Bilal7's microanalysis (great) despite of great international players.

English players have short span. I mean however great they can be. Using your yardstick, I will have to trash Alan Lamb, David Gower, Edmonds and Emburey... Nah.. Nah, just because they don't exert much influence in today's world, their significance can't be overlooked. Hence Michael Vaughan.
Click to expand...

Ahhh this old chestnut.
 
Bilal7 said:
However, in this case, it was Kohli's weakness against the moving ball that was causing it. No shame in that because no ATG player is born perfect. They improve and so has Kohli and this match-winning hundred shows that he has come a long way since 2014. South African pacers know South African conditions better than anyone else and thus, can take advantage of them better than anyone else. That is why facing them at home and doing well against them is a mark of a great player.
Click to expand...

Problem is the ball did not seam or swing that much in the 1st ODI ... you will only know this if you watch the match. It was a typical good ODI batting surface. I can show you many ODIs in Asia where the ball did a lot of talking but the stereotype built up against Asian pitches is so strong that it is nearly impossible to change peoples mind. This is why stats can be very misleading.
 
Tusker said:
Problem is the ball did not seam or swing that much in the 1st ODI ... you will only know this if you watch the match. It was a typical good ODI batting surface. I can show you many ODIs in Asia where the ball did a lot of talking but the stereotype built up against Asian pitches is so strong that it is nearly impossible to change peoples mind. This is why stats can be very misleading.
Click to expand...

Yes, that is why he needs to score in these places consistently.

Marikar said:
[MENTION=129948]Bilal7[/MENTION],

Former English captain Michael Vaughan tweeted Virat Kohli is the greatest chaser of all time.

You see.. This is the problem with cricket greats. They are not bothered to "Micro-Macro" analyze any player before commenting. As far as I understand YOU are the only ATG analyzer so work as fast as you can to correct Vaughan and all those Greats commented. Tweet them at the earliest.. !!

It looks like there is something eating you from inside whenever Kohli scores runs. Treat it ASAP lest it can be fatal. I am really serious!!
Click to expand...

And the legendary Michael Holding recently said he will only call Kohli a great player once he does something of note in England. Now please let your hypocrisy shine through.

I don't understand why some random guy would have a problem with how I rate cricket players. I don't give a rat's tail about your opinions, much less let them bother me, why do you start crying everytime I mention Kohli? I am here to discuss cricket and that is what I will continue to do, regardless of what Vaughan says.

It's funny cause I have had nothing but good to say about Kohli today but of course, anyone who doesn't drink the water dripping from his feet is not giving him due credit. Disgusting, lol. As for your idiotic suicide taunt, last I checked it was Indian fans who take the performances of their idols too seriously, not the 'haterz'
 
Meh what one random poster thinks on the interweb is irrelevant. Kohli is already the greatest run chaser in history of cricket.

Well on his way to become an the GOAT in ODI's as well.

If that makes someone cry who cares.
 
Bilal7 said:
Yes, that is why he needs to score in these places consistently.



And the legendary Michael Holding recently said he will only call Kohli a great player once he does something of note in England. Now please let your hypocrisy shine through.

I don't understand why some random guy would have a problem with how I rate cricket players. I don't give a rat's tail about your opinions, much less let them bother me, why do you start crying everytime I mention Kohli? I am here to discuss cricket and that is what I will continue to do, regardless of what Vaughan says.

It's funny cause I have had nothing but good to say about Kohli today but of course, anyone who doesn't drink the water dripping from his feet is not giving him due credit. Disgusting, lol. As for your idiotic suicide taunt, last I checked it was Indian fans who take the performances of their idols too seriously, not the 'haterz'
Click to expand...

Holding is all over the place with his opinions on Kohli.

In 2017 he said, "[Kohli] is certainly a great batsman."

Somehow in 2018, Kohli is "extremely good."

:))

Needs to make up his mind.
 
barah_admi said:
Kohli has only been part of 7 successful run chases against Eng, Aus and SA, in their backyards. Out of a total of 18 matches where he has had to chase in those countries.

Not really GOAT of all time chase material.

Now, just looking at the guy who I consider to be the second greatest ODI batsman of all time, Ricky Ponting who batting second 28 times against Eng, India, SA and Pak, he won 17, with an average of 77. Kohli's average in those wins is higher but overall number of wins are lower. Not including world cups.

I think a similar story would be repeated if we looked at Viv, AB and Amla.

So, just to bring things back to reality, KOhli is a terrific ODI batsman, maybe even great, but he is still some way off from being the greatest. As a chaser, or rather, finisher, he still has some m#way to go as well.

Indians shouldnt get angry at that, it's just a fact and it doesn't stop Kohli being the best over the last couple of years but history is far bigger than just 2008 to now.
Click to expand...

Ponting isn't even 1/5th the chaser Kohli is. An out of form Kohli is much better chaser than Ponting. Not sure if you're trolling or simply clueless
 
Oligochaetes said:
Who has been a better chaser in ODI's than Kohli? :79:
Click to expand...

The all time great Babar Azam by chasing games across the globe and Mars and galaxies. All his centuries have come while chasing against top 3 Odi teams on toughest pitches and he's already overtaken Kohli according the so called ATG Analyst talking above. :D
 
barah_admi said:
Kohli has only been part of 7 successful run chases against Eng, Aus and SA, in their backyards. Out of a total of 18 matches where he has had to chase in those countries.
Click to expand...

Lol I love how winning in 7 out of 18 chases in difficult away conditions is considered sub-par.

This is the standard that Kohli has set for himself.
 
Cuts_and_cuts_hard said:
Lol I love how winning in 7 out of 18 chases in difficult away conditions is considered sub-par.

This is the standard that Kohli has set for himself.
Click to expand...

It's not a bad thing but someone like POnting has done better, which is my point, Kohli is still some way away from being the very best in a number of categories. Add to that Ponting's great wc performances and it raises him to a different level.
 
Kholi has failed in all the chases that mattered. WC15 Semi and CT17 Final. Can't be called the best.
 
JattMaula said:
Kholi has failed in all the chases that mattered. WC15 Semi and CT17 Final. Can't be called the best.
Click to expand...

The thread title is "greatest ODI run chaser in history", not greatest run chaser in World Cup Finals.

Even in the latter case, the winner would be Aravinda D Silva, Dhoni or Gambhir and not Ponting...lol. Ponting chased in one final and scored 24.

To make matters more clear Gilchirst's 149 Vs Lanka was way better than Ponting's 140, which came on the back of a spectacular start given by Gilchrist.

People should forget the myth that Ponting was the best world cup finals player. It was Gilchrist with 57, 54 and 149. Peace!
 
JattMaula said:
Kholi has failed in all the chases that mattered. WC15 Semi and CT17 Final. Can't be called the best.
Click to expand...

I disagree.

Why was Michael Bevan repeatedly hailed as the "GOAT ODI chaser" before Kohli?

1) Bevan never chased in an ICC knockout match
2) He had one decent winning effort (74* off 126 balls) vs ENG in a group match

Kohli is held to an absurd standard despite being miles better.
 
He doesn't have a single great chase on my birthday.Sorry but I dont consider him as a great chaser.
 
JattMaula said:
Kholi has failed in all the chases that mattered. WC15 Semi and CT17 Final. Can't be called the best.
Click to expand...

Who decides what chase is matter what chase doesn’t matter? 300 plus chases never achieved in a big final. Unless you can show someone achieving that your argument is stale.
 
Kohli is not. Ponting is the best. I don't need statistics. They lie. What if Pontings chase record is inferior !! When i say he is best , he is the best.
 
Kohli scored in the tests. Has 2 match winning scores chasing vs South Africa in South Africa. Is he still a joker against the moving ball? I thought he couldn't chase in South Africa? A very very difficult day for [MENTION=129948]Bilal7[/MENTION]. Going to hillairious watching you contradict yourself :misbah
 
kingusama92 said:
I disagree.

Why was Michael Bevan repeatedly hailed as the "GOAT ODI chaser" before Kohli?

1) Bevan never chased in an ICC knockout match
2) He had one decent winning effort (74* off 126 balls) vs ENG in a group match

Kohli is held to an absurd standard despite being miles better.
Click to expand...

Bevan hardly got a chance to chase a target in a knockout match. Though he did play an absolutely brilliant inning in the 96 WC semifinal against red hot WI when Australia was in deep trouble.
 
Kohli is the best ODI batsman right now and probably the 2nd best of all time. However, an average of 35 in 14 tournament finals and semifinals is a very poor record for someone of his caliber.
 
The_Odd_One said:
Kohli is the best ODI batsman right now and probably the 2nd best of all time. However, an average of 35 in 14 tournament finals and semifinals is a very poor record for someone of his caliber.
Click to expand...

He needs 1 match winning knock in Semi Final or Final to be the GOAT. He is so far ahead of the rest in everything else it's not even funny. Just had a look on cricinfo, ridiculous stats

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/253802.html?class=2;template=results;type=batting
 
The_Odd_One said:
I am fully aware of his stats but until he plays that knock that other greats of the game have played, many will have the right to not accept him as the GOAT ODI batsman.
Click to expand...

If he is able to play that knock, if, how would you rate him compared to Viv or Tendulkar?
 
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