[PICTURES/VIDEOS] Babar Azam’s failures against India

[NishanKonar]

i make it a point never to address or respond to trolls. The Mark Twain quote (“Never argue…”) is my go to response, or should I say non response, in such situations.

As far as the thread topic goes, Babar is highly rated in India, probably because we honestly aren’t used to rating most Pakistani batsmen (as Pakistanis didn’t rate Indian bowlers for a long time, and some don’t even now). At the same his track record against us so far is a matter of concern for him and his legacy.

Babar is actually not so highly rated in India - precisely bcoz he never seems to play well against India

Indians generally rate players who do well against us - like Saeed Anwar or Inzimam. One reason Wasim Akram is highly rated in India but Waqar Younis not so much

 

[Farabi]

When he was out India were already in great position . Shaheen gave 79 runs in 10 over.

I’d take that perf with a grain of salt. Hard for any team to contain when 2 main bowlers are injured in the middle of the game.

 

[Devadwal]

I’d take that perf with a grain of salt. Hard for any team to contain when 2 main bowlers are injured in the middle of the game.

Middle of game? Naseem bowled 9 over and Harish 5

 

[Mamoon]

I can’t stop my laughter. @Mamoon , this needs your urgent attention.

Oh my. Hashim Amla is better than all of them though.

 

[topspin]

Bumrah owns Babar. Our captain is only good against Bangladesh, Afghanistan and Kenya. His foot movement is so poor leaving him an ideal candidate for being caught behind. Whenever the ball swings a bit this guy has no clue what to do.

And Nepal

 

[Rana]

Babar's "failures" are down to a tiny sample size and nothing more. He is already a far superior batsman than 99% of Pakistani and Indian batsmen throughout history.

Despite everything being against him and his team, I expect Babar to once again prove himself a better batsman than Kohli during this world cup.

If Pakistan and India played more frequently, he would boss the Indian bowlers.

Indian+Pakistani Batsmen who Babar isn’t better than currently and also in comparison to stature of legends of the past:

1. Kohli
2. Sharma
3. Tendulkar
4. Inzimam
5. Dravid
6. Ganguly
7. Saeed Anwar
8. Sehwag
9. Yuvraj Singh
10. Dhoni
11. Miandad


Don’t care about the positions of these players. I’m more than certain Babar is yet to supersede any of them. So I don’t understand where the 99% figure comes from? Are these 10-11 players 1%?

 

[VForVendetta]

Indian+Pakistani Batsmen who Babar isn’t better than currently and also in comparison to stature of legends of the past:

1. Kohli
2. Sharma
3. Tendulkar
4. Inzimam
5. Dravid
6. Ganguly
7. Saeed Anwar
8. Sehwag
9. Yuvraj Singh
10. Dhoni
11. Miandad


Don’t care about the positions of these players. I’m more than certain Babar is yet to supersede any of them. So I don’t understand where the 99% figure comes from? Are these 10-11 players 1%?

Azhar,Gavaskar,Abbas,Laxman,Yousuf, Salim Malik? I don't know the criteria you followed while choosing those names but I think you can easily add these guys on your list, four of them were genuine all format batsmen, other two were bonafide test match winners.

 

[Rana]

Azhar,Gavaskar,Abbas,Laxman,Yousuf, Salim Malik? I don't know the criteria you followed while choosing those names but I think you can easily add these guys on your list, four of them were genuine all format batsmen, other two were bonafide test match winners.

Yeah I don’t want to be lynched here, kept it safe with the 11 I said

But yes, not sure how I missed those names too.

 

[VForVendetta]

Yeah I don’t want to be lynched here, kept it safe with the 11 I said

But yes, not sure how I missed those names too.

No can save you from lynching , I am afraid you have poked the dragon, You have dared to question the legitimacy of the one & true GOAT batsman of entire history, so yeah your deserve severe punishment.
To be fair to you, We both missed Younus somehow. If we talk about all format players then there won't be more than 10 genuine great Indo-Pak players. But if we take one format legends into account then the list easily eclipses 20.If you add Yuvraj, Dhoni, Dravid then you can't neglect Younus, Gavaskar or Laxman.

 

[Rana]

No can save you from lynching , I am afraid you have poked the dragon, You have dared to question the legitimacy of the one & true GOAT batsman of entire history, so yeah your deserve severe punishment.
To be fair to you, We both missed Younus somehow. If we talk about all format players then there won't be more than 10 genuine great Indo-Pak players. But if we take one format legends into account then the list easily eclipses 20.If you add Yuvraj, Dhoni, Dravid then you can't neglect Younus, Gavaskar or Laxman.

The discussion is currently relevant to ODIs as I believe Bilal7 has only tuned in for the World Cup, and hasn’t been keeping in touch with cricket overall.

The other day he said Pakistan are well placed to win the World Cup because they have been comfortably chasing 320+ scores recently. He didn’t respond when I asked who those 320 scores were made against. For me that’s a clear indication that he probably believes those scores were against the main strength teams and that’s exactly what’s going to happen in the World Cup.

People are out of touch or out of tune with reality. It’s fine, a long World Cup ahead.

 

[VForVendetta]

The discussion is currently relevant to ODIs as I believe Bilal7 has only tuned in for the World Cup, and hasn’t been keeping in touch with cricket overall.

The other day he said Pakistan are well placed to win the World Cup because they have been comfortably chasing 320+ scores recently. He didn’t respond when I asked who those 320 scores were made against. For me that’s a clear indication that he probably believes those scores were against the main strength teams and that’s exactly what’s going to happen in the World Cup.

People are out of touch or out of tune with reality. It’s fine, a long World Cup ahead.

So you consider Dravid as an odi legend? That's interesting because almost no Indian & very few non Indian would term him as odi great. I have seen a lot of Indians claiming him as their worst odi batsman ever. Personally I feel he is extremely underrated & unnecessarily disrespected by his countrymen due to that world cup disaster. Also because they have the luxury to put aside someone like him as they keep churning one after another great loi batsman which their neighbors can only dream of.

 

[Marooned]

Bumrah owns Babar. Our captain is only good against Bangladesh, Afghanistan and Kenya. His foot movement is so poor leaving him an ideal candidate for being caught behind. Whenever the ball swings a bit this guy has no clue what to do.

What generic nonsense is that? Bumrah is yet to dismiss Babar in any format.

 

[Rana]

So you consider Dravid as an odi legend? That's interesting because almost no Indian & very few non Indian would term him as odi great. I have seen a lot of Indians claiming him as their worst odi batsman ever. Personally I feel he is extremely underrated & unnecessarily disrespected by his countrymen due to that world cup disaster. Also because they have the luxury to put aside someone like him as they keep churning one after another great loi batsman which their neighbors can only dream of.

For me Rahul Dravid was the backbone of India whenever I watched him play. He doesn’t get as much plaudits he deserves because Tendulkar was the golden boy. Dravid was definitely a better ODI batsman than Mohammad Yousuf in that era.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

For me Rahul Dravid was the backbone of India whenever I watched him play. He doesn’t get as much plaudits he deserves because Tendulkar was the golden boy. Dravid was definitely a better ODI batsman than Mohammad Yousuf in that era.

Nonsense.

Babar is a Tendulkar level batsmen.

His numbers are much better than Tendulkar.

Kohli, Root and Williamson are a notch below.

 

[Rana]

Nonsense.

Babar is a Tendulkar level batsmen.

His numbers are much better than Tendulkar.

Kohli, Root and Williamson are a notch below.

I don’t know if you are being serious but if that’s what you truly believe, so be it.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

I don’t know if you are being serious but if that’s what you truly believe, so be it.

Well you seem to have missed his 150 vs Nepal.

So you may be biased.

 

[Rana]

Well you seem to have missed his 150 vs Nepal.

So you may be biased.

Oh hahahaaha

That 150 v Nepal adds him in the upper echelons of ODI greats

 

[VForVendetta]

For me Rahul Dravid was the backbone of India whenever I watched him play. He doesn’t get as much plaudits he deserves because Tendulkar was the golden boy. Dravid was definitely a better ODI batsman than Mohammad Yousuf in that era.

I don't think it's only due to Sachin if we are talking about odi. Sourav, Sehwag, Yuvraj, Dhoni they all are given more plaudits than him. He was their best batsman in 99 wc, a fact most Indian fans often overlook & without his clutch performance Ind would have never made it this far in 03 wc, no matter how many runs Sachin & Sourav were making for fun. If you are talking specifically about icc events then I agree, hands down he was better than Yousuf. Overall I am not sure, either can make a case.
I think him being forced out from his natural no 3 position to bat at no 5 is one of the biggest reasons he couldn't achieve more. The guy definitely had atleast 20 hundreds in him. Pretty much since 02 he has been used as human shield & always had to accommodate for Sachin, Sourav or Shewag so that they can bat at their favorite position. He never threw a fuss & public meltdown unlike his contemporaries. Maybe if he had a bit ego in him & looked for himself more he would have ended up with 11000-12000 runs with 20 hundreds & 40+ average which would have surely helped his cause as a great odi batsman. Again it comes down to his nationality, with record such as his, he would have been celebrated as an atg if he was born in any other country except Ind & Maybe Aus.

 

[VForVendetta]

Nonsense.

Babar is a Tendulkar level batsmen.

His numbers are much better than Tendulkar.

Kohli, Root and Williamson are a notch below.

All jokes aside, I think Babar definitely is a better odi batsman than Root & Williamson. If I am to rate the fab 4 & Babar in odi's it would go like this :
Kohli >Smith>Babar >Root>Williamson
in tests obviously he is way behind the others & I am not sure if he will ever be able to touch them or even close the gap. I honestly enjoy whenever one of his fanboys make such absurd statements of him being equal or better than Kohli, Sachin, Lara, Ponting etc. It gives you a clear idea that all these fans belong to a certain age group & hardly witnessed the legends in their pomp in 90's & 00's. They don't even grasp the proposition that every time they come up with such claims they throw their idol to wolves & eventually make him a laughing stock every single time he fails in major occasions (like the last three loi tournaments).

 

[Adnan_Ilyas]

Babar has ben poor vs India but then again most of our players have been. Babar is hyped because he scores against all the other teams, centuries against all teams

 

[Rana]

Babar has ben poor vs India but then again most of our players have been. Babar is hyped because he scores against all the other teams, centuries against all teams

Has Babar scored a ODI hundred against Cummins, Starc and Hazlewood?

 

[Ab Fan]

Has Babar scored a ODI hundred against Cummins, Starc and Hazlewood?

Yes.

 

[Rana]

Yes.

Oh the one when they were chasing 350?

 

[Moiza]

Has Babar scored a ODI hundred against Cummins, Starc and Hazlewood?

Didn't think this one through, did you?

 

[Rana]

Didn't think this one through, did you?

View attachment 136833

Why did you delete Sharjeel?

 

[Moiza]

Why did you delete Sharjeel?

Because I answered this question:

Has Babar scored a ODI hundred against Cummins, Starc and Hazlewood?

Not this:

Has Sharjeel scored a ODI hundred against Cummins, Starc and Hazlewood?

 

[Rana]

Because I answered this question:

Has Babar scored a ODI hundred against Cummins, Starc and Hazlewood?

Not this:

Has Sharjeel scored a ODI hundred against Cummins, Starc and Hazlewood?

Has Sharjeel creamed Cummins, Starc and Hazlewood modern ODI style on a consistent basis?

Oh yes he has!

Has Babar?

 

[Moiza]

Has Sharjeel creamed Cummins, Starc and Hazlewood modern ODI style on a consistent basis?

Oh yes he has!

Has Babar?

Sir you are changing your statement now. Your statement was that Babar has not scored a ODI hundred against Cummins, Starc and Hazlewood.

Your flipped your statement after being proven wrong.

 

[topspin]

Because I answered this question:

Has Babar scored a ODI hundred against Cummins, Starc and Hazlewood?

Not this:

Has Sharjeel scored a ODI hundred against Cummins, Starc and Hazlewood?

Firstly, how many hundreds does Babar have against that bowling attack?

Secondly, in his best innings against the same bowlers what was his strike rate?

 

[Rana]

Sir you are changing your statement now. Your statement was that Babar has not scored a ODI hundred against Cummins, Starc and Hazlewood.

Your flipped your statement after being proven wrong.

What statement did I change??? I asked a question if he did….I didn’t know he did. So what statement have I changed?

 

[VForVendetta]

Didn't think this one through, did you?

View attachment 136833

Is this the same match where Hasan went for some 100+ runs & broke quite a few embarrassing records?

 

[Rana]

Is this the same match where Hasan went for some 100+ runs & broke quite a few embarrassing records?

I think this is the match where Aqib learned from the Aussies,

“Don’t get Babar out”

 

[Moiza]

You guys seem to get very salty as soon as you are called out for posted incorrect facts.


At no point have I said that Babar has a SR comparable to Sharjeel or Hassan didnt concede 100. I pointed out incorrect facts after which all of you have started to deflect here and there

 

[Saj]

Perfect opportunity to put this right, in front of a packed home crowd and a huge television audience.

He's more than capable of a big score versus India, but a win is obviously more important than Babar's individual score.

 

[Moiza]

Perfect opportunity to put this right, in front of a packed home crowd and a huge television audience.

He's more than capable of a big score versus India, but a win is obviously more important than Babar's individual score.

Would be nice of him to come to the post match presentation in this PP shirt as a tribute to all the analyst at PP.

 

[Rana]

Perfect opportunity to put this right, in front of a packed home crowd and a huge television audience.

He's more than capable of a big score versus India, but a win is obviously more important than Babar's individual score.

I think Babar would be happy with the individual score

 

[indianpanacea]

I think the best way to succeed in India in ODIs for babar is to play as opener.
Strategy of Pakistan has to change.if babar and rizwan can open in T20 cricket ,what is the logic of not doing so in odis.They are perfect combination and can repeat same performances in ODIs.
I guess the batting order be like
Babar
Rizwan
Saud shakeel
Abdullah shafique
Iftikhar
Agha salman
M.Nawaz
Hassan Ali
Osama
Shaheen
Haris

 

[Cricket Warrior]

this is the perfect moment to score a century against India in aworld cup and that too at the packed Ahmedabad cricket stadium.

There is not much assistance for bowlers from the Ahmedabad wicket its a bit of "SAPAAT" track, so it seems to be a favorable condition for batsmen score runs easily.

 

[VForVendetta]

I think this is the match where Aqib learned from the Aussies,

“Don’t get Babar out”

Hahaha don't know. How old was he at that time? 22/23 at max. Pretty young. To his credit he scored a hundred against one of best fast bowling attacks on their den. But the problem was they were chasing 370 & he was plodding around with a subpar 90 strike rate innings. From context point of view it was a completely worthless knock since all it did was help him statpad. I don't think a true fan should ever celebrate this kind of knock. A 50 ball 70 would have been much more helpful & would have proven his game awareness.

 

[Rana]

Hahaha don't know. How old was he at that time? 22/23 at max. Pretty young. To his credit he scored a hundred against one of best fast bowling attacks on their den. But the problem was they were chasing 370 & he was plodding around with a subpar 90 strike rate innings. From context point of view it was a completely worthless knock since all it did was help him statpad. I don't think a true fan should ever celebrate this kind of knock. A 50 ball 70 would have been much more helpful & would have proven his game awareness.

Sharjeel was the one who was doing all the heavy lifting

 

[VForVendetta]

Sharjeel was the one who was doing all the heavy lifting

Humm now I remember, Sharjeel & Umar were the only guys who seemed to have an idea what they were chasing. The rest either had no clue or simply didn't care up, gave up on the team & decided to statpad. Not an ideal match if you want to prove anybody's greatness.

 

[Rana]

Humm now I remember, Sharjeel & Umar were the only guys who seemed to have an idea what they were chasing. The rest either had no clue or simply didn't care up, gave up on the team & decided to statpad. Not an ideal match if you want to prove anybody's greatness.

Yeah a bit of an own goal there by @Moiza

 

[PakPremi]

Hahaha don't know. How old was he at that time? 22/23 at max. Pretty young. To his credit he scored a hundred against one of best fast bowling attacks on their den. But the problem was they were chasing 370 & he was plodding around with a subpar 90 strike rate innings. From context point of view it was a completely worthless knock since all it did was help him statpad. I don't think a true fan should ever celebrate this kind of knock. A 50 ball 70 would have been much more helpful & would have proven his game awareness.

Lol so if you remove his worthless 100, how would others achieved the 370 total?

 

[PakPremi]

Yeah a bit of an own goal there by @Moiza

No it was not own goal he proved Babar is capable of scoring runs against the world's best pacers, now you lot changed the goal post to strike rate after been shown he has scored.

 

[Rana]

No it was not own goal he proved Babar is capable of scoring runs against the world's best pacers, now you lot changed the goal post to strike rate after been shown he has scored.

So what’s the goal? Score runs for yourself?

 

[MenInG]

God - never seen so many people hanging around waiting for Babar to fail.

 

[VForVendetta]

Lol so if you remove his worthless 100, how would others achieved the 370 total?

He needed to score more freely, as simple as that. If he was aiming for a 100 he should have tried to get it around 80/85 balls. Nothing wrong with taking time, but he should have definitely accelerated after getting the 50. The acceleration was never there unfortunately, but I don't blame him. He was a young inexperienced guy at the time, lacked game awareness. All the senior players were playing for themselves, selfishly trying to save their own place, so Babar shouldn't be singled out. Only two batsmen tried to give the chase a go.
My point is if you as a fan want to celebrate Babar's greatness, this is definitely not the knock or match you should point out. It wasn't an exceptional knock which at any time in the match was threatening the opposition. But for a young rookie it was a good experience. That's the way it should be seen & remembered. Babar from my memory has atleast three superlative knocks against SENA top attacks, this one isn't definitely among them.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Lol so if you remove his worthless 100, how would others achieved the 370 total?

So how did his 100 help?

Basically played for himself.

 

[Moiza]

God - never seen so many people hanging around waiting for Babar to fail.

The runs, wins and most importantly the tears of some members at PP keep rolling but Babar his friends keep marching on!

People have been hanging around since 2021 for him to fail and we have indeed stumbled on the final hurdles but the team keeps exceeding all expectations. I am just proud to see my team putting up a fight in every ICC tournament it plays.

 

[Rana]

The runs, wins and most importantly the tears of some members at PP keep rolling but Babar his friends keep marching on!

People have been hanging around since 2021 for him to fail and we have indeed stumbled on the final hurdles but the team keeps exceeding all expectations. I am just proud to see my team putting up a fight in every ICC tournament it plays.

I don’t get it, what’s the definition of success as a player?

 

[Moiza]

No it was not own goal he proved Babar is capable of scoring runs against the world's best pacers, now you lot changed the goal post to strike rate after been shown he has scored.

Its a new tactic I have seen on PP.

The other day a member made a statement that Amir's fixing didnt matter since we won the match anyway. I pointed out that we lost by an innings and 200 odd runs, after which the member started saying that we didnt lose the match because of 1 no ball so it doesnt matter.

 

[Moiza]

I don’t get it, what’s the definition of success as a player?

For a team that relies on its bowling, the definition of success for a no 3 batsman should be score the bulk of the runs. Babar managed to do that for PCT in 2019 and in 2021 WC T20 he was the tournament's highest run getter.

What many of you fail to comprehend is that no every team can play like England. Each team has its own strength and Babar is playing accordingly to ours. Our ICC performance is a testament to that.

 

[Rana]

For a team that relies on its bowling, the definition of success for a no 3 batsman should be score the bulk of the runs. Babar managed to do that for PCT in 2019 and in 2021 WC T20 he was the tournament's highest run getter.

What many of you fail to comprehend is that no every team can play like England. Each team has its own strength and Babar is playing accordingly to ours. Our ICC performance is a testament to that.

Our ICC performance in what? ODIs?

Pakistan have achieved well in T20 world cups before. Runners up, Winners, Semi finalists…

 

[Moiza]

Our ICC performance in what? ODIs?

Pakistan have achieved well in T20 world cups before. Runners up, Winners, Semi finalists…

Mate this is the first ICC ODI event happening while he is the captain. Or do u want him to make a time machine, go into the future, and perform in 2023 ODI WC before it has happened?

We have only lost 10 ODIs under his captaincy so the lot of you need to cool your jets. Now the typical answer will come from you guys that it was B, C, D, Z team of xyz country. Like I said before, the tears keep rolling at PP while Babar and his boys march on!

 

[TheSultan]

@Moiza @PakPremi - you are not real
Babar fans. You want him to stay in the slow lane and you will defend him to the hilt while doing it.

Some of us who criticise him are actually bigger fans of his batting talent than you. We recognise his potential and know he can do better and should do better if he played with some courage. I want him to be an undisputed great, not just be a great for his fanboys.

We shouldn’t need to massage his statistics and plaster uncontextualised batting numbers. His record should speak for itself. Instead we have statisticians trying to furiously knock up some stats that babar at 20 was better than Kohli at 20, I mean seriously, get a life

 

[Cricket Warrior]

i m pretty much hopeful that babar will break this myth this time and will score big against india.

 

[mominsaigol]

@Moiza @PakPremi - you are not real
Babar fans. You want him to stay in the slow lane and you will defend him to the hilt while doing it.

Some of us who criticise him are actually bigger fans of his batting talent than you. We recognise his potential and know he can do better and should do better if he played with some courage. I want him to be an undisputed great, not just be a great for his fanboys.

We shouldn’t need to massage his statistics and plaster uncontextualised batting numbers. His record should speak for itself. Instead we have statisticians trying to furiously knock up some stats that babar at 20 was better than Kohli at 20, I mean seriously, get a life

This, no one realises that babar is class and is simply underperforming for his talent.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

One of the reasons Babar is underperforming is this new rage that "number of centuries and personal milestones" defines the greatness of a player.

However, unless he starts throwing those 100s and focusing on WINNING, questions will continue to be asked.

 

[Technics 1210]

Inshallah Babar will prove his doubters and haters wrong.

His run tally is already nearing 200 runs after 2 matches in India, and in one innings he retired before hitting a milestone, this is how good he is.

Don't care if they were warm up matches, his account in India is open, and he is doing exactly what I expect - steer the innings, and dispatch bad balls with utter contempt on Indian wickets - the characteristics of a world class batsman - #1 ODI batsman to be precise.

After this World Cup, the IPL franchises will be begging the BCCI to find a way to sign Babar!

You can bookmark this comment for prosperity.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Inshallah Babar will prove his doubters and haters wrong.

His run tally is already nearing 200 runs after 2 matches in India, and in one innings he retired before hitting a milestone, this is how good he is.

Don't care if they were warm up matches, his account in India is open, and he is doing exactly what I expect - steer the innings, and dispatch bad balls with utter contempt on Indian wickets - the characteristics of a world class batsman - #1 ODI batsman to be precise.

After this World Cup, the IPL franchises will be begging the BCCI to find a way to sign Babar!

You can bookmark this comment for prosperity.

Didn't Babar go unsold in 100 draft? Shaheen went for 100k, Rauf for 60k.

 

[topspin]

Didn't Babar go unsold in 100 draft? Shaheen went for 100k, Rauf for 60k.

Goes to show the English understand the modern game. They know he’s not good enough to be playing T20Is.

Look at Australia, Smith didn’t even get selected for the first XI during last year’s WT20.

 

[Technics 1210]

Didn't Babar go unsold in 100 draft? Shaheen went for 100k, Rauf for 60k.

Yup, the franchises would have needed to spend the majority of their budget, if not all to sign Babar - pure economic decision.

100K is pittance.

 

[mominsaigol]

One of the reasons Babar is underperforming is this new rage that "number of centuries and personal milestones" defines the greatness of a player.

However, unless he starts throwing those 100s and focusing on WINNING, questions will continue to be asked.

Babar has shown he's capable of bullying 2nd string bowlers and atleast rotating strike well and accelerating against 1st string.

It's his slowing down for milestones that costs us usually.

 

[mominsaigol]

Yup, the franchises would have needed to spend the majority of their budget, if not all to sign Babar - pure economic decision.

100K is pittance.

So Babar was so priceless that no one wanted him?

 

[Hitman]

Yup, the franchises would have needed to spend the majority of their budget, if not all to sign Babar - pure economic decision.

100K is pittance.

Someone with an SR of 128 in international T20 cricket? Yea, sure

 

[Technics 1210]

He cannot handle Pakistan-India matches pressure.

5 ODIs, average 31
4 T20Is, average 30

He hasn’t played Tests against them but he is lucky because Ashwin and Jadeja would run rings around him. He is weak against spin.

9 innings, 1 half-century. It is not a coincidence.

It is a bottle-job. He is Pakistan’s best batsman but India have reduced him to mediocrity. All great Pakistani batsman were good against India but he is not following their footsteps.

Also his deluded fans who compare him to Kohli need to realize that he hasn’t been able to have 1% the impact Kohli has had on Pakistan-India matches.

Can Babar Azam improve his record against India over his career or will this fixture remain his Achilles’ Heel?

If he he continues to bottle it, will it impact his status and legacy?

It took Tendulkar over 70 ODI matches to score his first ODI century, not against Pakistan, in his CAREER! Look it up. Oh that's right you've been following Cricket since the early 00s.

Plus, across all the teams Tendulkar has played against, his lowest career average was vs Pakistan. His lowest century tally was also against Pakistan. Bottle job in high pressure games right?

Yet here you are having a go at Babar for not scoring big in a pressure vs India spanning 5 ODIs?

 

[mominsaigol]

Ridiculous.

It took Tendulkar over 70 ODI matches to score his first ODI century, not against Pakistan, in his CAREER! Look it up. Oh that's right you've been following Cricket since the early 00s.

Plus, across all the teams Tendulkar has played against, his lowest career average was vs Pakistan. His lowest century tally was also against Pakistan. Bottle job in high pressure games right?

Yet here you are having a go at Babar for not scoring big in a pressure vs India spanning 5 ODIs?

Get real.

The new PP rules and the 2 new balls rules meaning anyone can Average 40 to 50 now lol.

Tendulkar played in a harder era, with harder rules and in an era where bowlers would cheat via ball tampering that would go unnoticed unless your afridi trying to bite the ball lol.

Older era was harder to bat, much harder, no bazzball nonsense.

Tendulkar was batting 100x better then kohli during the end of his career in 2012. Not saying kohli is bad, kohli was at the start of his career and not the player he is now, but he was cremating 2012 pakistan in Asia cup including chucking ajmal.

 

[Technics 1210]

Here come the excuses.

Tendulkar was an OPENER since 1994.

1 ball, 2 balls, 4 balls, makes no difference to an opener that is unless he survives around 25 overs or more in an ODI, and Powerplays were introduced in the 80s, but why should this matter to a 'MRF Genius' player anyway.

Babar will shine like a supernova in this World Cup. Get your sun glasses ready.

 

[Technics 1210]

Facta don't care about feelings.

The hatered towards Babar is just unreal and unwarranted.

First they complain Pakistan has no world class batsman, then along comes Babar, then they claim he is not world class because he's not in the top 10 rankings, then Babar tops the rankings, then they complain he plays against B,C,D teams, then he scores a century vs Australia facing their A team bowlers, then they complain the match was lost, then they want him as captain, but they want him removed - ecetera ecetera.

There is no satisfying hate as hate has no limits.

 

[mominsaigol]

Facta don't care about feelings.

The hatered towards Babar is just unreal and unwarranted.

First they complain Pakistan has no world class batsman, then along comes Babar, then they claim he is not world class because he's not in the top 10 rankings, then Babar tops the rankings, then they complain he plays against B,C,D teams, then he scores a century vs Australia facing their A team bowlers, then they complain the match was lost, then they want him as captain, but they want him removed - ecetera ecetera.

There is no satisfying hate as hate has no limits.

I agree with you, you know what the issue is? The issue is their needs to be a balance with support and hate

You bashing people for blind hate but complimenting that with blind love doesn't send a strong message.

Just like you don't assume hate on someone you don't know, you shouldn't love and blindly support them either.

But chalo if you want to troll I can't stop you.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Facta don't care about feelings.

The hatered towards Babar is just unreal and unwarranted.

First they complain Pakistan has no world class batsman, then along comes Babar, then they claim he is not world class because he's not in the top 10 rankings, then Babar tops the rankings, then they complain he plays against B,C,D teams, then he scores a century vs Australia facing their A team bowlers, then they complain the match was lost, then they want him as captain, but they want him removed - ecetera ecetera.

There is no satisfying hate as hate has no limits.

I am going to answer you as a genuine person for one last time and hope you are not just trolling.

Firstly, Babar is a good batsmen but short of world class at the moment. That may change in the future as he still has time to leave a legacy and make a niche for himself if gets out of his padding and selfish nature.

Secondly, being World Class doesn't mean being top 10 in the rankings. Rizwan and Babar top the T20 rankings but their impact in T20 is zilch. Nada. They even average in the 50s. But no one cares because they can simply not win you games by their padding.

Thirdly, the top ranking is obviously achieved by playing Junior Dalas and Warners. No sensible team sends their "A" team for bilateral matches and uses these matches as a platform to groom and blood new players and fringe players ready to hit the national team. Meanwhile, Pakistan plays the same 11 even against Namibia and Guernsey and PNG so obviously they get a lot of freebies.

Fourthly, there is no point of a century if the match is indeed lost. The match in question is where Australia hit 370 runs and Babar oblivious to the state of the match prodded along for his century. Better for him would be 70 off 40 balls to give others a chance. Getting to 320 runs and losing respectably by 50 runs is STILL A LOSS. Losing by 100 + runs trying to chase 370 is ALWAYS better than losing by 30 runs and hitting a useless 150 in the process.

Fifthly, Babar is a poor captain. He has his set ideas in his mind without any plan B. Infact, most of the times his plan B is to panic and put the fielders and boundaries and allow easy singles when the batsmen are attacking. He rarely has a slip for his spinners (not that they deserve a slip), and he rarely goes for the kill when the opposition is down. India were four down and ended up with 250 plus which shows that he doesn't have the guts to go the jugular when the opposition is down. Babar is a poor captain but a much better batsmen. There is NO SHAME in that. Tendulkar was a very ordinary captain too, but a genius player who excelled as a batsmen. So if Babar is absolved of the responsibility of leading the side, I have a feeling he is going to finally evolve to the player who everyone wants him to be. I doubt he loves the responsibility of leading the side anyways as his demeanor is rarely every of someone who enjoys captaining the side.

Finally, all of this is not to say that Babar Azam is equivalent of Habibul Bashar or some other average player. His ability to play strokes is second to none. He has a beautiful cover drive. He has the ability to score quickly and up the pace effortlessly. But he gets bogged down because of personal milestones and statistics. He doesn't skip matches vs teams like Nepal, Hong Kong but actually revels in playing them because they become easy centuries for him.

Babar needs the push to go to next level. Any criticism of his based on his potential and not because people hate him or get jealous of him. The world doesn't revolve around jealousy and hatred as you try to portray the antagonists of Babar.

Lastly, no one hates the Pakistan team. We are all born in Pakistan and by default we have developed a love for Pakistan cricket. The last real superstar for Pakistan was Shahid Afridi who probably was not the ideal superstar but when he played, Pakistan won games. Before that, Razzaq was another one.

Pakistan has a rich history of sportsmen who changed the game. Imran, Wasim, Waqar, Javed, Hanif, Abbas, Miandad, Inzimam, Younis Khan, Saqlain, Mushtaq, Abdul Qadir, Shoaib Akhtar. All of them were single handedly match winners on their day. Now read this list Imam, Abdullah, Rizwan, Babar, Nawaz, Shadab ..... Do you even see any star quality in any them sans Babar? And he even he seems driven by personal goals and desires.

Learn to respect dissent and don't compare dissent with hatred. You may be born in a generation where you have only seen Ahmed Shehzads and Imran Farhats so you can't comprehend what we have seen. But that doesn't make you any more loyal than me.

We all have methods to point out the glaring deficiencies and look for improvements in the team.

 

[Mamoon]

It took Tendulkar over 70 ODI matches to score his first ODI century, not against Pakistan, in his CAREER! Look it up. Oh that's right you've been following Cricket since the early 00s.

Plus, across all the teams Tendulkar has played against, his lowest career average was vs Pakistan. His lowest century tally was also against Pakistan. Bottle job in high pressure games right?

Yet here you are having a go at Babar for not scoring big in a pressure vs India spanning 5 ODIs?

Late 90s not early 00s, and yes I’m aware that it took 70+ ODIs for Tendulkar to score his first century which clearly had a lot to do with the fact that he made his debut at a very young age and took some time to get going in the ODI format. Once he did, he did not look back.

Tendulkar’s 98 (75) in 2003 World Cup match is one of the all-time great ODI knocks where he dispatched Wasim, Waqar and Shoaib with utter disdain and made a big target look like a stroll in the park in an extremely high pressure game.

That innings alone is bigger than Babar’s entire career so far, just like Kohli’s epic innings at the MCG last year in the T20 World Cup is bigger than Babar’s entire career so far.

If Babar can do on October 15 what Tendulkar did in 2003, no one would care about his overall record vs India and question his performances.

It is all about having that big iconic knocks. That is what people remember not averages.

When people think about Tendulkar vs Pakistan in ODIs, they think about the 2003 World Cup, the six to Akhtar. They don’t think about his overall record.

Babar so far has not played a single notable ODI innings against India in 5 attempts. He has the chance to change that in this World Cup and alter this perception, but history is not against him because he has bottled plenty of innings against India.

 

[Technics 1210]

I am going to answer you as a genuine person for one last time and hope you are not just trolling.

Firstly, Babar is a good batsmen but short of world class at the moment. That may change in the future as he still has time to leave a legacy and make a niche for himself if gets out of his padding and selfish nature.

Secondly, being World Class doesn't mean being top 10 in the rankings. Rizwan and Babar top the T20 rankings but their impact in T20 is zilch. Nada. They even average in the 50s. But no one cares because they can simply not win you games by their padding.

Thirdly, the top ranking is obviously achieved by playing Junior Dalas and Warners. No sensible team sends their "A" team for bilateral matches and uses these matches as a platform to groom and blood new players and fringe players ready to hit the national team. Meanwhile, Pakistan plays the same 11 even against Namibia and Guernsey and PNG so obviously they get a lot of freebies.

Fourthly, there is no point of a century if the match is indeed lost. The match in question is where Australia hit 370 runs and Babar oblivious to the state of the match prodded along for his century. Better for him would be 70 off 40 balls to give others a chance. Getting to 320 runs and losing respectably by 50 runs is STILL A LOSS. Losing by 100 + runs trying to chase 370 is ALWAYS better than losing by 30 runs and hitting a useless 150 in the process.

Fifthly, Babar is a poor captain. He has his set ideas in his mind without any plan B. Infact, most of the times his plan B is to panic and put the fielders and boundaries and allow easy singles when the batsmen are attacking. He rarely has a slip for his spinners (not that they deserve a slip), and he rarely goes for the kill when the opposition is down. India were four down and ended up with 250 plus which shows that he doesn't have the guts to go the jugular when the opposition is down. Babar is a poor captain but a much better batsmen. There is NO SHAME in that. Tendulkar was a very ordinary captain too, but a genius player who excelled as a batsmen. So if Babar is absolved of the responsibility of leading the side, I have a feeling he is going to finally evolve to the player who everyone wants him to be. I doubt he loves the responsibility of leading the side anyways as his demeanor is rarely every of someone who enjoys captaining the side.

Finally, all of this is not to say that Babar Azam is equivalent of Habibul Bashar or some other average player. His ability to play strokes is second to none. He has a beautiful cover drive. He has the ability to score quickly and up the pace effortlessly. But he gets bogged down because of personal milestones and statistics. He doesn't skip matches vs teams like Nepal, Hong Kong but actually revels in playing them because they become easy centuries for him.

Babar needs the push to go to next level. Any criticism of his based on his potential and not because people hate him or get jealous of him. The world doesn't revolve around jealousy and hatred as you try to portray the antagonists of Babar.

Lastly, no one hates the Pakistan team. We are all born in Pakistan and by default we have developed a love for Pakistan cricket. The last real superstar for Pakistan was Shahid Afridi who probably was not the ideal superstar but when he played, Pakistan won games. Before that, Razzaq was another one.

Pakistan has a rich history of sportsmen who changed the game. Imran, Wasim, Waqar, Javed, Hanif, Abbas, Miandad, Inzimam, Younis Khan, Saqlain, Mushtaq, Abdul Qadir, Shoaib Akhtar. All of them were single handedly match winners on their day. Now read this list Imam, Abdullah, Rizwan, Babar, Nawaz, Shadab ..... Do you even see any star quality in any them sans Babar? And he even he seems driven by personal goals and desires.

Learn to respect dissent and don't compare dissent with hatred. You may be born in a generation where you have only seen Ahmed Shehzads and Imran Farhats so you can't comprehend what we have seen. But that doesn't make you any more loyal than me.

We all have methods to point out the glaring deficiencies and look for improvements in the team.

As for Babar, he will play his natural game. He is our best bat, world #1 in ODIs. If you think rankings are inaccurate, then propose a new ranking algorithm to the ICC. Fact is Babar can only play what is infront of him.

So what if Babar doesn't have higher gears, neither did Dravid. I would rather have a player play his natural game (which is quality anyway) and last longer at the crease, then get out quick playing an unnatural game.

The Pakistan players in your rich history list played in a different era. You should add Hanif Mohammed to the list too, however the players in the rich history list played their natural game, so there is no reason to expect anything else from Babar.

As for centuries in losses, not bothered, 66% of Tendulkar's 100 centuries never resulted in a win, so to single out Babar's century in a losing cause in simply biased and unjust. The main thing is that Babar has the ability to score centuries, and this is all that matters to me.

Now on to his captaincy, this is the only point I would agree with you. Babar does have much to learn, but the greatest teachers are mistakes, so I have faith in him captaining Pakistan in his first ever ODI WC captain on the hope he has learned from his mistakes.

I appreciate your genuine efforts but despite your post you continue to ridicule Babar, especially in this thread. Fine but it seems to me you want Babar to conquer the world, but are disappointed that he is not playing your version of an unnatural game, me on the other hand, I have followed Pakistan long enough to know to expect the unexpected and let the universe unfold.

Finally, if you think Pakistan are going to humiliate themselves at this WC, then why bother watching? Genuine question.

On a side note, there is an interesting theory called the Theory of Emergence. At a basic level it means individual components are useless (for example fans) but when they unite (emergence) they become powerful and influential.

So lets unite behind Pakistan and enjoy the WC!

 

[Hitman]

Babar has played 6 innings against India, not 5.

 

[Technics 1210]

Late 90s not early 00s, and yes I’m aware that it took 70+ ODIs for Tendulkar to score his first century which clearly had a lot to do with the fact that he made his debut at a very young age and took some time to get going in the ODI format. Once he did, he did not look back.

Tendulkar’s 98 (75) in 2003 World Cup match is one of the all-time great ODI knocks where he dispatched Wasim, Waqar and Shoaib with utter disdain and made a big target look like a stroll in the park in an extremely high pressure game.

That innings alone is bigger than Babar’s entire career so far, just like Kohli’s epic innings at the MCG last year in the T20 World Cup is bigger than Babar’s entire career so far.

If Babar can do on October 15 what Tendulkar did in 2003, no one would care about his overall record vs India and question his performances.

It is all about having that big iconic knocks. That is what people remember not averages.

When people think about Tendulkar vs Pakistan in ODIs, they think about the 2003 World Cup, the six to Akhtar. They don’t think about his overall record.

Babar so far has not played a single notable ODI innings against India in 5 attempts. He has the chance to change that in this World Cup and alter this perception, but history is not against him because he has bottled plenty of innings against India.

You see when you ask Indian fans for memorable Tendulkar knocks vs Pakistan, all they have is 2003 WC. You can even expand beyond the WC, but 2003 WC is the beginning and end of the list, and Tendulkar was a 'MRF Genius' player. I would say Tendulkar was tamed by Pakistan amd got lucky in 2003. Not even Tendulkar's knock in 2011 Mohali SF makes the list cos he was dropped 5 times.

Babar has the opportunity in this WC, but for you to call him a bottle job, after only 5 ODIs against India, is just remarkable.

 

[JattMaula]

You see when you ask Indian fans for memorable Tendulkar knocks vs Pakistan, all they have is 2003 WC. You can even expand beyond the WC, but 2003 WC is the beginning and end of the list, and Tendulkar was a 'MRF Genius' player. I would say Tendulkar was tamed by Pakistan amd got lucky in 2003. Not even Tendulkar's knock in 2011 Mohali SF makes the list cos he was dropped 5 times.

Babar has the opportunity in this WC, but for you to call him a bottle job, after only 5 ODIs against India, is just remarkable.

Tendulkar was MOM in 3 of 5 WC matches he played against Pakistan including the first one.

India were clear underdogs from 92 to 99 and were chasing a big total in 03.

IND vs PAK Cricket Scorecard, 16th Match at Sydney, March 04, 1992

Live Cricket Scoreboard: Get India vs Pakistan 16th Match, cricket scorecard, Benson & Hedges World Cup 1991/92 dated March 04, 1992.

www.espncricinfo.com

IND vs PAK Cricket Scorecard, 2nd QF at Bengaluru, March 09, 1996

Live Cricket Scoreboard: Get India vs Pakistan 2nd QF, cricket scorecard, Wills World Cup 1995/96 dated March 09, 1996.

www.espncricinfo.com

IND vs PAK Cricket Scorecard, 4th Super at Manchester, June 08, 1999

Live Cricket Scoreboard: Get India vs Pakistan 4th Super, cricket scorecard, ICC World Cup 1999 dated June 08, 1999.

www.espncricinfo.com

IND vs PAK Cricket Scorecard, 36th Match at Centurion, March 01, 2003

Live Cricket Scoreboard: Get India vs Pakistan 36th Match, cricket scorecard, ICC World Cup 2002/03 dated March 01, 2003.

www.espncricinfo.com

IND vs PAK Cricket Scorecard, 2nd Semi-Final at Mohali, March 30, 2011

Live Cricket Scoreboard: Get India vs Pakistan 2nd Semi-Final, cricket scorecard, ICC Cricket World Cup 2010/11 dated March 30, 2011.

www.espncricinfo.com

 

[TheSultan]

Tendulkar was MOM in 3 of 5 WC matches he played against Pakistan including the first one.

India were clear underdogs from 92 to 99 and were chasing a big total in 03.

IND vs PAK Cricket Scorecard, 16th Match at Sydney, March 04, 1992

Live Cricket Scoreboard: Get India vs Pakistan 16th Match, cricket scorecard, Benson & Hedges World Cup 1991/92 dated March 04, 1992.

www.espncricinfo.com

IND vs PAK Cricket Scorecard, 2nd QF at Bengaluru, March 09, 1996

Live Cricket Scoreboard: Get India vs Pakistan 2nd QF, cricket scorecard, Wills World Cup 1995/96 dated March 09, 1996.

www.espncricinfo.com

IND vs PAK Cricket Scorecard, 4th Super at Manchester, June 08, 1999

Live Cricket Scoreboard: Get India vs Pakistan 4th Super, cricket scorecard, ICC World Cup 1999 dated June 08, 1999.

www.espncricinfo.com

IND vs PAK Cricket Scorecard, 36th Match at Centurion, March 01, 2003

Live Cricket Scoreboard: Get India vs Pakistan 36th Match, cricket scorecard, ICC World Cup 2002/03 dated March 01, 2003.

www.espncricinfo.com

IND vs PAK Cricket Scorecard, 2nd Semi-Final at Mohali, March 30, 2011

Live Cricket Scoreboard: Get India vs Pakistan 2nd Semi-Final, cricket scorecard, ICC Cricket World Cup 2010/11 dated March 30, 2011.

www.espncricinfo.com

Let’s be honest here.

Some of the MoM’s were just default options because there was no clear single performer.

1992 - no standout performance, let’s give it to the kid

2011 - if I was Tendulkar, I’d give that MoM medal back, dropped 5 times and overall a pretty slow and poor innings. Should have gone to one of the bowlers because defending 260 in India is matchwinning (aided obviously by Misbah who should have got an honorable mention)

 

[BouncerGuy]

Babar's record surely is pure against India, but it does not mean that he is not a world-class player. The whole world praises Babar as they are not blind as well. They can see what Babar means to the team. Yeah, he should be giving 100 percent against each team but failing against one does not make him a bad player and the same goes the other way if he has a 100-plus average against Zimbabwe then this is not the standard for him to be the best player.

 

[Unbiased-Fan]

oh hello, don't put wrong stats here to prove you point

As for Babar, he will play his natural game. He is our best bat, world #1 in ODIs. If you think rankings are inaccurate, then propose a new ranking algorithm to the ICC. Fact is Babar can only play what is infront of him.

So what if Babar doesn't have higher gears, neither did Dravid. I would rather have a player play his natural game (which is quality anyway) and last longer at the crease, then get out quick playing an unnatural game.

The Pakistan players in your rich history list played in a different era. You should add Hanif Mohammed to the list too, however the players in the rich history list played their natural game, so there is no reason to expect anything else from Babar.

As for centuries in losses, not bothered, 66% of Tendulkar's 100 centuries never resulted in a win, so to single out Babar's century in a losing cause in simply biased and unjust. The main thing is that Babar has the ability to score centuries, and this is all that matters to me.

Now on to his captaincy, this is the only point I would agree with you. Babar does have much to learn, but the greatest teachers are mistakes, so I have faith in him captaining Pakistan in his first ever ODI WC captain on the hope he has learned from his mistakes.

I appreciate your genuine efforts but despite your post you continue to ridicule Babar, especially in this thread. Fine but it seems to me you want Babar to conquer the world, but are disappointed that he is not playing your version of an unnatural game, me on the other hand, I have followed Pakistan long enough to know to expect the unexpected and let the universe unfold.

Finally, if you think Pakistan are going to humiliate themselves at this WC, then why bother watching? Genuine question.

On a side note, there is an interesting theory called the Theory of Emergence. At a basic level it means individual components are useless (for example fans) but when they unite (emergence) they become powerful and influential.

So lets unite behind Pakistan and enjoy the WC!

Oye hello, don't post any misleading stats here only to prove your point.
Out of 100 centuries scored by Sachin, 53 were scored in winning causes. India lost only 25 times whenever he made century.
20 were scored in drawn matches.
Can you please tell us from where did you get that 66%?

 

[Unbiased-Fan]

Babar is good player in my opinion, but he is so much overrated by his fans who thinks he already better than likes of Kohli or other members of FAB 4.
He is the 2nd most overhyped cricketer of all times only behind an obvious former Pakistani allrounder.
He was completely flopped on bouncy pitches of Australia in 2022 t20i world cup and spinning tracks of Sri Lanka.
He never missed playing against minnow teams and B/C sides of stronger teams just to improve his stats, but mostly flops against quality lineups.
He is not better than any of Miandad, Yousuf, Younis, Inzamam and Anwar. He can catch them after 2-3 years of good cricket against quality teams but for now he is nowhere near the pakistani greats.