[PICTURES/VIDEOS] Jasprit Bumrah is the best fast-bowler in the world right now

[TheSultan]

Only 3 wickets in the match? This is the GOAT?

Dear oh dear, how standards have fallen. I hear seam friendly conditions too? Dear oh dear.

I’ll assume he’s not bowling bravely. Too scared of getting it, bowling too wide. How world bowling has fallen. Dear oh dear.

 

[Ab Fan]

Now before I start this thread let my say that I believe Bumrah is the bowler going around now, and by far the best in flat conditions. But I think there is a problem with Bumrah's bowling in friendly conditions which is seen in this test and was also seen in the dharmasala test aginst england. He has the Srinath syndrome where he produves many ooh-aah inducinh deliveries which beats the bat by a mile but doesn't get close the producing an edge. Do you think he bowls a bit shorter in friendly conditions?

That's Shami's problem. He doesn't get the length right. Bumrah seems to struggle due to not being able to control exaggerated swing and seam.

 

[Mamoon]

He is not even better than Cummins, Rabada and Hazlewood in Test cricket and Indian fans think he is in GOAT debate. The delusion is laughable.

 

[anikrc1]

He is not even better than Cummins, Rabada and Hazlewood in Test cricket and Indian fans think he is in GOAT debate. The delusion is laughable.

Why is he not better than Cummins and Rabada?

 

[anikrc1]

Only 3 wickets in the match? This is the GOAT?

Dear oh dear, how standards have fallen. I hear seam friendly conditions too? Dear oh dear.

I’ll assume he’s not bowling bravely. Too scared of getting it, bowling too wide. How world bowling has fallen. Dear oh dear.

He was not bowling wide, rather his balls were doing too much. Like pitching on middle and going two stumps wide of offstump stuff. Don't know what he should have done.

 

[TheSultan]

He was not bowling wide, rather his balls were doing too much. Like pitching on middle and going two stumps wide of offstump stuff. Don't know what he should have done.

Wow - if he doing that to right handers, was he bowling legspin?

 

[anikrc1]

Wow - if he doing that to right handers, was he bowling legspin?

Almost. Look I don't know whether you are being sarcastic or not, but the problem was his balls were literally doing too much. Like some of Wasim's spell.

 

[Mamoon]

Why is he not better than Cummins and Rabada?

Rabada is one of the greats of Test cricket. He is two years younger than Bumrah and has 300 Test wickets which Bumrah might not even get to, considering he is 130 wickets away and will be 31 in a month or so.

Rabada doesn’t get enough credit for the champion bowler that he is and Indians hyping their own to the moon and back is a big reason why genuine greats like Rabada are not getting the limelight that they deserve.

Bumrah might be India’s GOAT considering their embarrassing legacy of fast bowlers but all other Test nations have produced better pacers and will continue to produce better pacers in the future.

There is no reason for others to make him sit on their heads. He is good but not as good as Indians would have you believe, but then again, every good Indian cricketer gets glorified and magnified 10 times than what they are actually worth.

Take Kohli’s example: he is not even close to being legendary in Test cricket which is the most important format of the game.

However, he is supposedly in GOAT conversation and a king for having a similar Test legacy as Inzamam and Yousuf and a lesser legacy than Younis and Sangakkara.

If Rabada was Indian, he too would be sitting on the heads of 2 billion people now and his Bollywood biopic would already be in production.

Same goes for Cummins. A great of the game who too will finish with far more Test wickets than Bumrah. He has about a 100 more at the same age. In addition, when you factor in what he has accomplished as a leader, Bumrah isn’t even worth lacing his boots.

 

[anikrc1]

Rabada is one of the greats of Test cricket. He is two years younger than Bumrah and has 300 Test wickets which Bumrah might not even get to, considering he is 130 wickets away and will be 31 in a month or so.

Rabada doesn’t get enough credit for the champion bowler that he is and Indians hyping their own to the moon and back is a big reason why genuine greats like Rabada are not getting the limelight that they deserve.

Bumrah might be India’s GOAT considering their embarrassing legacy of fast bowlers but all other Test nations have produced better pacers and will continue to produce better pacers in the future.

There is no reason for others to make him sit on their heads. He is good but not as good as Indians would have you believe, but then again, every good Indian cricketer gets glorified and magnified 10 times than what they are actually worth.

Take Kohli’s example: he is not even close to being legendary in Test cricket which is the most important format of the game.

However, he is supposedly in GOAT conversation and a king for having a similar Test legacy as Inzamam and Yousuf and a lesser legacy than Younis and Sangakkara.

If Rabada was Indian, he too would be sitting on the heads of 2 billion people now and his Bollywood biopic would already be in production.

Same goes for Cummins. A great of the game who too will finish with far more Test wickets than Bumrah. He has about a 100 more at the same age. In addition, when you factor in what he has accomplished as a leader, Bumrah isn’t even worth lacing his boots.

Firstly, I don't know why you brought up Kohli as even in his peak all Indian fans rated Smith better as a test bat. It was Smith who was getting rated alongside Lara and Sachin as a test bat by Indian fans not Kohli. Kohli's greatness was argued for his loi batting, never his test batting. But Rabada and Cummins being better than Bumrah because they took more wickets doesn't sit right with me. That'll make Anderson a greater bowler than Steyn. Instead let's talk about their skillsets. What do you think Cummins and Rabada do better than Bumrah? They both have the physical advantage of being taller and Cummins probably is more accurate than Bumrah. Apart from that do you think they have any advantage over Bumrah?. Bumrah swings the new ball even more, though control is an issue. His seam movement generation is as good. And with old ball with his use of reverse swing when available and cutters when not he is much more skillful than Cummins and Bumrah. His yorkers are much better. I will give you that they both have a better bouncer than Bumrah. Still I think it's clear that Bumrah is a more skillful bowler than both.

 

[Majestic]

@Mamoon , Bumrah’s away performance is better than Rabada and Cummins and hence he is a better test bowler than both. Include white ball and he is well ahead of both as both are quite average white ball performer.

 

[worldlife92]

Rabada is one of the greats of Test cricket. He is two years younger than Bumrah and has 300 Test wickets which Bumrah might not even get to, considering he is 130 wickets away and will be 31 in a month or so.

Rabada doesn’t get enough credit for the champion bowler that he is and Indians hyping their own to the moon and back is a big reason why genuine greats like Rabada are not getting the limelight that they deserve.

Bumrah might be India’s GOAT considering their embarrassing legacy of fast bowlers but all other Test nations have produced better pacers and will continue to produce better pacers in the future.

There is no reason for others to make him sit on their heads. He is good but not as good as Indians would have you believe, but then again, every good Indian cricketer gets glorified and magnified 10 times than what they are actually worth.

Take Kohli’s example: he is not even close to being legendary in Test cricket which is the most important format of the game.

However, he is supposedly in GOAT conversation and a king for having a similar Test legacy as Inzamam and Yousuf and a lesser legacy than Younis and Sangakkara.

If Rabada was Indian, he too would be sitting on the heads of 2 billion people now and his Bollywood biopic would already be in production.

Same goes for Cummins. A great of the game who too will finish with far more Test wickets than Bumrah. He has about a 100 more at the same age. In addition, when you factor in what he has accomplished as a leader, Bumrah isn’t even worth lacing his boots.

Rabada is definitely underrated in Test cricket but I'll still choose Bumrah over him.
I agree Indians tend to overrate their cricketers but Bumrah is genuinely good.
Moreover, Rabada's record in India and Pakistan is poor while Bumrah has performed almost everywhere (both avg around 30 in NZ so not comparing that)
Also, Rabada is inferior in other formats.

Bumrah has the backing of good stats for all that hype but it's the belief he instils that he can win the match from a difficult situation. The belief that he won't leak 20+ runs in the death overs, that he can bowl a magical delivery to break a partnership is what makes him special.
Shami especially in the white ball cricket and WCs is more attacking and a better wicket taker, still Bumrah is the one India will rely on when the tables have turned.
Even today, he made it extremely difficult for the NZ batsmen. When on song, it's extremely difficult to score against him and all this makes him special.

In my 25+ years of following cricket closely, I've only seen Wasim Akram with that impact and Shane Warne to an extent.

 

[Mamoon]

Firstly, I don't know why you brought up Kohli as even in his peak all Indian fans rated Smith better as a test bat. It was Smith who was getting rated alongside Lara and Sachin as a test bat by Indian fans not Kohli. Kohli's greatness was argued for his loi batting, never his test batting. But Rabada and Cummins being better than Bumrah because they took more wickets doesn't sit right with me. That'll make Anderson a greater bowler than Steyn. Instead let's talk about their skillsets. What do you think Cummins and Rabada do better than Bumrah? They both have the physical advantage of being taller and Cummins probably is more accurate than Bumrah. Apart from that do you think they have any advantage over Bumrah?. Bumrah swings the new ball even more, though control is an issue. His seam movement generation is as good. And with old ball with his use of reverse swing when available and cutters when not he is much more skillful than Cummins and Bumrah. His yorkers are much better. I will give you that they both have a better bouncer than Bumrah. Still I think it's clear that Bumrah is a more skillful bowler than both.

@Mamoon , Bumrah’s away performance is better than Rabada and Cummins and hence he is a better test bowler than both. Include white ball and he is well ahead of both as both are quite average white ball performer.

Rabada is definitely underrated in Test cricket but I'll still choose Bumrah over him.
I agree Indians tend to overrate their cricketers but Bumrah is genuinely good.
Moreover, Rabada's record in India and Pakistan is poor while Bumrah has performed almost everywhere (both avg around 30 in NZ so not comparing that)
Also, Rabada is inferior in other formats.

Bumrah has the backing of good stats for all that hype but it's the belief he instils that he can win the match from a difficult situation. The belief that he won't leak 20+ runs in the death overs, that he can bowl a magical delivery to break a partnership is what makes him special.
Shami especially in the white ball cricket and WCs is more attacking and a better wicket taker, still Bumrah is the one India will rely on when the tables have turned.
Even today, he made it extremely difficult for the NZ batsmen. When on song, it's extremely difficult to score against him and all this makes him special.

In my 25+ years of following cricket closely, I've only seen Wasim Akram with that impact and Shane Warne to an extent.

Bumrah's lack of wickets relative to his age completely rules him out of the ATG debate in Test cricket. The fact that he was not good enough to play for India at an age where the aforementioned bowlers had already a similar number of wickets that Bumrah does now counts against him, and it is no one's fault except his.

The difference between Steyn and Anderson is that Steyn himself has 400+ wickets and when both him and Anderson were playing in their prime, there was a huge gap (7-8 runs) between their respective averages.

When we talk about Bumrah in Test cricket relative to Rabada and Cummins, 170 odd wickets at 20 is by no means better than 300 wickets at 22. The gap is clearly not significant at all and therefore, the massive difference in the wickets tally makes a difference.

Steyn at Bumrah's age had 300 wickets as well. A fast bowler with only 170 odd wickets at the age of 31 is a fighting a losing battle against time. Even if he ends up with 300 wickets, he will have pretty much the exact same record that Cummins and Rabada do today, and by the time Bumrah gets to 300, both of them would have crossed 400 at roughly the same average, so Bumrah is clearly not better than them in Test cricket.

Bumrah is undoubtedly India's GOAT Test pacer, but that says less about how good he is and more about how awful India's pace bowling legacy is, because prior to Bumrah, their best Test pacers to date wouldn't even carry drinks and towels for an all-time D XI. However, if we look beyond the prism of India, Bumrah doesn't even enter the ATG debate in Test cricket because there countless pacers with a superior legacy in the format.

 

[Ab Fan]

Bumrah's lack of wickets relative to his age completely rules him out of the ATG debate in Test cricket. The fact that he was not good enough to play for India at an age where the aforementioned bowlers had already a similar number of wickets that Bumrah does now counts against him, and it is no one's fault except his.

The difference between Steyn and Anderson is that Steyn himself has 400+ wickets and when both him and Anderson were playing in their prime, there was a huge gap (7-8 runs) between their respective averages.

When we talk about Bumrah in Test cricket relative to Rabada and Cummins, 170 odd wickets at 20 is by no means better than 300 wickets at 22. The gap is clearly not significant at all and therefore, the massive difference in the wickets tally makes a difference.

Steyn at Bumrah's age had 300 wickets as well. A fast bowler with only 170 odd wickets at the age of 31 is a fighting a losing battle against time. Even if he ends up with 300 wickets, he will have pretty much the exact same record that Cummins and Rabada do today, and by the time Bumrah gets to 300, both of them would have crossed 400 at roughly the same average, so Bumrah is clearly not better than them in Test cricket.

Bumrah is undoubtedly India's GOAT Test pacer, but that says less about how good he is and more about how awful India's pace bowling legacy is, because prior to Bumrah, their best Test pacers to date wouldn't even carry drinks and towels for an all-time D XI. However, if we look beyond the prism of India, Bumrah doesn't even enter the ATG debate in Test cricket because there countless pacers with a superior legacy in the format.

Marshall has 376, Imran 362, Donald 330, lillee 350, Holding, Garner Roberts under 250.

 

[Ab Fan]

Bumrah's lack of wickets relative to his age completely rules him out of the ATG debate in Test cricket. The fact that he was not good enough to play for India at an age where the aforementioned bowlers had already a similar number of wickets that Bumrah does now counts against him, and it is no one's fault except his.

The difference between Steyn and Anderson is that Steyn himself has 400+ wickets and when both him and Anderson were playing in their prime, there was a huge gap (7-8 runs) between their respective averages.

When we talk about Bumrah in Test cricket relative to Rabada and Cummins, 170 odd wickets at 20 is by no means better than 300 wickets at 22. The gap is clearly not significant at all and therefore, the massive difference in the wickets tally makes a difference.

Steyn at Bumrah's age had 300 wickets as well. A fast bowler with only 170 odd wickets at the age of 31 is a fighting a losing battle against time. Even if he ends up with 300 wickets, he will have pretty much the exact same record that Cummins and Rabada do today, and by the time Bumrah gets to 300, both of them would have crossed 400 at roughly the same average, so Bumrah is clearly not better than them in Test cricket.

Bumrah is undoubtedly India's GOAT Test pacer, but that says less about how good he is and more about how awful India's pace bowling legacy is, because prior to Bumrah, their best Test pacers to date wouldn't even carry drinks and towels for an all-time D XI. However, if we look beyond the prism of India, Bumrah doesn't even enter the ATG debate in Test cricket because there countless pacers with a superior legacy in the format.

Bumrah's impact goes way beyond this statistical factor, i.e. number of wickets. When you look at his match winning performances and his away record, it is as impactful or even better than Cummins and Rabada.

He was player of series in series drawn in South Africa 2023 and England 2022 and was leading wicket taker in series victory in Australia in 2018-19 series and was impressive in 2020-21 series too. In addition to this, he was player of series in 2019 Windies win too. His wickets tally away from home is about same as the wickets tally of Cummins and Rabada but his away average is 21 while for Cummins and Rabada, it is sitting quite below at 26.

What Bumrah basically lacks is minnow bashing at home and that hardly counts for anything because he already has a highly impressive home record where he averages 16 with bowl. That number may change with more sample but it is well ahead of the rest just like how his away record is well ahead of others from his era and he is doing it by leading the Indian pace attack everywhere.

 

[RexRex]

An ordinary test for the GOAT but I expect him to come guns blazing in the 2nd test.

 

[kron]

Now before I start this thread let my say that I believe Bumrah is the bowler going around now, and by far the best in flat conditions. But I think there is a problem with Bumrah's bowling in friendly conditions which is seen in this test and was also seen in the dharmasala test aginst england. He has the Srinath syndrome where he produves many ooh-aah inducinh deliveries which beats the bat by a mile but doesn't get close the producing an edge. Do you think he bowls a bit shorter in friendly conditions?

He can't control swing with new ball in wet conditions.
Something to work on..

But he should have been supported by akshdeep

Since shami is out.

 

[kron]

An ordinary test for the GOAT but I expect him to come guns blazing in the 2nd test.

It's cause no shami and akashdeep to support.
Had the useless siraj
Can't do it by himself

And spinners did nothing

Also batsmen when we score 46 it's already over.

 

[Mamoon]

Marshall has 376, Imran 362, Donald 330, lillee 350, Holding, Garner Roberts under 250.

Yes, so Bumrah has another 80 wickets minimum to go before we can open the discussion on where he stands in the pantheons of great Test pacers, but Indian fans are in such a rush that they already handing out GOAT certificates when he is playing in the same era as a few other pacers who have 250-300 Test wickets @ 22 and are around the same age if not younger.

 

[Mamoon]

Bumrah's impact goes way beyond this statistical factor, i.e. number of wickets. When you look at his match winning performances and his away record, it is as impactful or even better than Cummins and Rabada.

He was player of series in series drawn in South Africa 2023 and England 2022 and was leading wicket taker in series victory in Australia in 2018-19 series and was impressive in 2020-21 series too. In addition to this, he was player of series in 2019 Windies win too. His wickets tally away from home is about same as the wickets tally of Cummins and Rabada but his away average is 21 while for Cummins and Rabada, it is sitting quite below at 26.

What Bumrah basically lacks is minnow bashing at home and that hardly counts for anything because he already has a highly impressive home record where he averages 16 with bowl. That number may change with more sample but it is well ahead of the rest just like how his away record is well ahead of others from his era and he is doing it by leading the Indian pace attack everywhere.

Pipe down. Bumrah averages 20 not 10. He has not done anything that other quality Test bowlers of his era have not done.

In terms of quality of bowling, there is no difference between 170 @20 and 250/300 @22, so you can’t dismiss those with a much larger body of work by the same age.

As far as impact this and that is concerned, a lot of it has to do with the team composition and the overall outlook of the team. It goes beyond on individual player.

For example, Rabada is desperately unlucky to have played his peak years of Test cricket in an era where South African batting level is at their lowest since their re-admission.

One can only imagine how many Test matches and series Rabada would have won for South Africa if he was backed up by batsmen like prime AB, Kallis, Amla, Smith etc.

Bumrah is an excellent bowler playing for a very good team. That’s it. He hasn’t been sent from the heavens and he isn’t beyond comparison with any other excellent bowler.

 

[FearlessRoar]

Former Pakistan cricketer, Basit Ali said on his You Tube channel:

"The eight-over spell that Bumrah bowled, reminded me of Wasim Akram and Waqar Younis. But India has to take into consideration that Bumrah will need two quicks alongside him in Australia.

Bumrah does not have a good pace bowling partner at the moment. Shami getting fit before the Australia tour will be crucial for India. The batting looks fine. Rohit (Sharma) scored a fifty, and Virat (Kohli) scored a 70. These are good signs. Sarfaraz (Khan) hit 150 and played extremely well. Rishabh Pant is already a good Test player."

 

[Ab Fan]

Yes, so Bumrah has another 80 wickets minimum to go before we can open the discussion on where he stands in the pantheons of great Test pacers, but Indian fans are in such a rush that they already handing out GOAT certificates when he is playing in the same era as a few other pacers who have 250-300 Test wickets @ 22 and are around the same age if not younger.

I am not in favour of such fans who are already putting Bumrah at level of Wasim and Imran. I would have him below Waqar too for now but most neutral Pakistani fans themselves underrated Waqar a lot. He has left Shoaib Akhtar in the dust due to his multiple standout performances in away test series vs top sides and recently the T20 World Cup win.

 

[Ab Fan]

Pipe down. Bumrah averages 20 not 10. He has not done anything that other quality Test bowlers of his era have not done.

In terms of quality of bowling, there is no difference between 170 @20 and 250/300 @22, so you can’t dismiss those with a much larger body of work by the same age.

As far as impact this and that is concerned, a lot of it has to do with the team composition and the overall outlook of the team. It goes beyond on individual player.

For example, Rabada is desperately unlucky to have played his peak years of Test cricket in an era where South African batting level is at their lowest since their re-admission.

One can only imagine how many Test matches and series Rabada would have won for South Africa if he was backed up by batsmen like prime AB, Kallis, Amla, Smith etc.

Bumrah is an excellent bowler playing for a very good team. That’s it. He hasn’t been sent from the heavens and he isn’t beyond comparison with any other excellent bowler.

There are couple of points here which needs to be noted. Rabada has got a weak batting line-up to support, that's right. But he also has a luxury of playing his home matches in South Africa which are the most friendly conditions he can get to bowl at.

Now, if you follow Rabada's performance away from home especially vs non minnows like Windies, Bangladesh who got pretty poor batting line-up, you will find that his average excluding them is almost nearing to 30. This validates the point that Rabada is not that good vs non minnows away from home. He has often struggled vs good teams whenever conditions have not been friendly in last 4-5 years and this proves the point.

Bumrah on other hand is quite comfortably no.1. If you look purely at quality and based on a good sample size, he is right up there at top. There is no one with the kind of impact he has created in last 5-6 years across the formats, whether it is away from home, match winning performances or even ICC tournament. He is sitting comfortably at top in this era but he would need about 50 odd test wickets more to get into top 10 ATG bowlers conversation which he is not far off.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

I hadn't paid much attention to him but a stats breakdown by @Buffet really broke down how good he has been.

He has GOAT potential for sure but we must also be very very honest that if god forbid his career was to end today would be in the conversation for GOATs at this stage of his career? No chance.

As I said once previously if it was all to finish now he would on a similar tier to someone like Ryan Harris in test match cricket.

If he continues to perform he will climb the tiers for sure but it is an overexegaration to give him a seat at the table just yet.

 

[Ab Fan]

I hadn't paid much attention to him but a stats breakdown by @Buffet really broke down how good he has been.

He has GOAT potential for sure but we must also be very very honest that if god forbid his career was to end today would be in the conversation for GOATs at this stage of his career? No chance.

As I said once previously if it was all to finish now he would on a similar tier to someone like Ryan Harris in test match cricket.

If he continues to perform he will climb the tiers for sure but it is an overexegaration to give him a seat at the table just yet.

Ryan Harris? He has achieved absolutely nothing compared to Bumrah in any format. Bumrah is already leagues ahead due to his series winning performances in Australia and series drawn performances in South Africa and England as standout player. In addition to that, he single-handedly won India the T20 World Cup. Even if he retires today, he would go down as an ATG test bowler, although maybe not at the level of top 10-15 fast bowlers in history.

 

[RexRex]

As I said once previously if it was all to finish now he would on a similar tier to someone like Ryan Harris in test match cricket.

Did Ryan Harris have similiar stats at this point in his career ?

 

[Buffet]

I hadn't paid much attention to him but a stats breakdown by @Buffet really broke down how good he has been.

He has GOAT potential for sure but we must also be very very honest that if god forbid his career was to end today would be in the conversation for GOATs at this stage of his career? No chance.

As I said once previously if it was all to finish now he would on a similar tier to someone like Ryan Harris in test match cricket.

GOAT potential, sure.

Right now , nah. Needs to do it longer.

Look at away from home with below 25 bowlers having 100 plus wickets. Every single one of them is certified test great. Only 14 pacers in entire history makes this cut.

SR of 46 and Avg of 21 when playing away from home mostly against good teams.

Ryan was a good bowler, but Bumrah has long gone past such tiers. Ryan Harris tiers won't land up in this kind of lists.

Given he is averaging 15-16 at home and 21 away without doing stats padding by playing lots of games against weaker sides or being home track bully, I would think 250+ test wickets makes it absolute top tier among all pacers in test format. In limited overs, he is top tier along side McGrath and Wasim.

As far as GOAT is concerned, that only comes in discussion after his playing days are done and we can see entire career.

 

[Buffet]

Former Pakistan cricketer, Basit Ali said on his You Tube channel:

"The eight-over spell that Bumrah bowled, reminded me of Wasim Akram and Waqar Younis. But India has to take into consideration that Bumrah will need two quicks alongside him in Australia.

Bumrah does not have a good pace bowling partner at the moment. Shami getting fit before the Australia tour will be crucial for India. The batting looks fine. Rohit (Sharma) scored a fifty, and Virat (Kohli) scored a 70. These are good signs. Sarfaraz (Khan) hit 150 and played extremely well. Rishabh Pant is already a good Test player."

Yah, same problem like Wasim, Ball was swinging too much for batsmen to get near. Only great batsmen could nick such deliveries.

 

[Devadwal]

After 39 Test matches...
173 wkts, S/r 56.13 - Richard Hadlee
173 wkts, S/r 53.85 - Glenn McGrath
173 wkts, S/r 44.15 - Jasprit Bumrah

 

[Ab Fan]

Yah, same problem like Wasim, Ball was swinging too much for batsmen to get near. Only great batsmen could nick such deliveries.

Exaggerated swing and seam is hard to control. If Bumrah learns that, he will be a force in those conditions too.

 

[kron]

Love bumrah. One of the best bowlers of all time.

But yes basit is right. He needs shami harshit and or akashdeep who did well to support him

Siraj is pathetic.

Bowling works in pairs.

McGrath's had Lee and Gillespie so it was a compete attack
Complement each othe well.

Bumrah shami peak ishant was a brilliant attack

I reckon try harshit akashdeep bumrah next game

They would run through nz. We would have extended batting too. Get axar in. Drop loldeep.

Sorry if I offended kuldeep fans but he should play only pattas. Not on swing friendly conditions. Not his fault though. Selectors are to blame.

 

[BouncerGuy]

Every great bowler needs support at the other end. A one-man army can win you 1-2 games but it can never make that team great on the whole.

Bumrah is one-man army atm.

 

[FearlessRoar]

'We Will Monitor...': Gautam Gambhir's Blueprint on Managing Jasprit Bumrah's Workload Ahead of BGT 2024​

With the Border-Gavaskar series looming on the horizon, saving the best of the best becomes a pressing issue: one that Gautam Gambhir is facing currently concerning ace pacer Jasprit Bumrah, who may be rested ahead of the second Test against New Zealand.

With the Australia tour less than a month away, it becomes imperative for India to come to a conclusion on whether or not Bumrah, who has played all three home Tests this season so far, shall be rested.

“Once the series is over, we still have around 10 or 12 days before the (first) Test starts in Australia. That is enough break for our fast bowlers as well. But we will still monitor after this Test match where Jasprit Bumrah is,” Gambhir stated.

“But it’s not only about Jasprit Bumrah. It’s about with all the fast bowlers as well. We want to keep them fresh. We know that obviously we’ve got a long tour and an important tour of Australia.

“Workload management will definitely depend on what the outcome of this Test match is and how much have they bowled in this match,” he added.

The strike bowler will be the one spearheading the Indian bowling attack down under against the mighty Aussies.

It has also been reported by The Indian Express that the selection committee is looking for a fast-bowling all-rounder for the Australia series with the likes of Nitish Reddy and Shardul Thakur as front-runners for the spot in the Indian squad.

The report suggests that both Reddy and Thakur will compete for a single spot, and it will be interesting to see which side the selectors choose as their fast-bowling all-rounder solution for the Indian squad.

'We Will Monitor...': Gautam Gambhir's Blueprint on Managing Jasprit Bumrah's Workload Ahead of BGT 2024 - News18

Bumrah will be expected to be the one spearheading the Indian bowling attack down under against the mighty Aussies in the upcoming Border-Gavaskar trophy.

www.news18.com

 

[aboveandbeyond]

I will always question Bumrahs bowling action. Unless he has it tested and cleared by independent bodies then I'm afraid for me he is a question mark.

 

[aboveandbeyond]

After 39 Test matches...
173 wkts, S/r 56.13 - Richard Hadlee
173 wkts, S/r 53.85 - Glenn McGrath
173 wkts, S/r 44.15 - Jasprit Bumrah

Waqar 33 tests

190 test wickets @ 19 and S/r 36
With 19 fifers

 

[Mamoon]

When Bumrah doesn’t take wickets in helpful conditions, it is because he bowled so amazingly well that he couldn’t take wickets as the ball kept missing the stumps and the edges.

Some amazing glazing going on. How embarrassing.

 

[Mamoon]

What is stopping Indian fans from declaring Bumrah as the greatest fast bowler in history?

 

[TheSultan]

Waqar 33 tests

190 test wickets @ 19 and S/r 36
With 19 fifers

Next level. Absolute next level. Don’t care about the average, just look at that strike rate.

 

[Ab Fan]

Waqar will always be a bridesmaid due to his average record away from home and lacklustre skill with the new ball. His only true legacy is his ability to bowl pinpoint yorkers on toe at his prime when he had pace. He is nowhere near the top 10 pacers of all time.

 

[Hitman]

I will always question Bumrahs bowling action. Unless he has it tested and cleared by independent bodies then I'm afraid for me he is a question mark.

Him and the whole of India would be so devastated to know that.

 

[Kroll]

Waqar will always be a bridesmaid due to his average record away from home and lacklustre skill with the new ball. His only true legacy is his ability to bowl pinpoint yorkers on toe at his prime when he had pace. He is nowhere near the top 10 pacers of all time.

Waqar in his prime was unbeatable.

 

[mominsaigol]

Waqar will always be a bridesmaid due to his average record away from home and lacklustre skill with the new ball. His only true legacy is his ability to bowl pinpoint yorkers on toe at his prime when he had pace. He is nowhere near the top 10 pacers of all time.

Maybe not top 10, ut you're delusional if you think Bumrah is > Waqar during his golden era.

 

[Romali_rotti]

Maybe not top 10, ut you're delusional if you think Bumrah is > Waqar during his golden era.

What was Waqars combined avg vs Aus, SA & Eng during this prime/peak ?

 

[Buffet]

Maybe not top 10, ut you're delusional if you think Bumrah is > Waqar during his golden era.

Waqar's does not have a that great record even during his golden era against top teams.

Top 5 teams during Waqar's peak:





Waqar's performance against top teams during his peak:





Waqar's performance against same teams during his entire career: Similar trend as his golden era. Good teams were troubled more by many other bowlers, be it inside or outside his golden era.

 

[Hitman]

Waqar's does not have a that great record even during his golden era against top teams.

Top 5 teams during Waqar's peak:

View attachment 147006



Waqar's performance against top teams during his peak:

View attachment 147007



Waqar's performance against same teams during his entire career: Similar trend as his golden era. Good teams were troubled more by many other bowlers, be it inside or outside his golden era.

View attachment 147008

Easily the most overrated fast bowler of the 90's. Not even good enough to lace the boots of McGrath, Ambrose and Donald. Have a look at his career record against Australia to figure out how they treated him. As for his prime from his debut till the end of 1994, the Aussies still made a mockery out of him with him averaging much above 30 against them during that period.

 

[Romali_rotti]

Waqar's does not have a that great record even during his golden era against top teams.

Top 5 teams during Waqar's peak:

View attachment 147006



Waqar's performance against top teams during his peak:

View attachment 147007



Waqar's performance against same teams during his entire career: Similar trend as his golden era. Good teams were troubled more by many other bowlers, be it inside or outside his golden era.

View attachment 147008

It's not Waqars fault his supporters make him out to be something he really isn't.



He is a good to an OK bowler vs tough competition.. That's not a bad thing but he is no goat...lol

 

[Hitman]

It's not Waqars fault his supporters make him out to be something he really isn't.



He is a good to an OK bowler vs tough competition.. That's not a bad thing but he is no goat...lol

LOL, speaks a lot when someone like Ajay Jadeja makes a complete and utter fool out of you in an all important WC QF match against arch finals.

The MOM of that match should have been Waqar for single handedly helping us win. Of course Saeed Anwar and the likes of Saleem Malik choking didn't help them either.

 

[mominsaigol]

Waqar's does not have a that great record even during his golden era against top teams.

Top 5 teams during Waqar's peak:

View attachment 147006



Waqar's performance against top teams during his peak:

View attachment 147007



Waqar's performance against same teams during his entire career: Similar trend as his golden era. Good teams were troubled more by many other bowlers, be it inside or outside his golden era.

View attachment 147008

I don't think Waqar is top 10. I even said he isn't

I just said he's superior to Bumrah. Indians have a need to make bumrah the best ever when he clearly isn't.

I've seen Bumrah's performance in wc semi final and wc final in 2023, similarly I saw his performance in the recent NZ test game.

He ain't anything special. His golden moment was in 2024 wc.

Otherwise 2017 to 2021 he's been nothing spectacular and no please don't quote these er stats and all that in my face.

Not in the mood to play these filtered games atm.

 

[Buffet]

Some one may point out that 13 tests are small sample size against top 5 teams for Waqar. I will somewhat agree that yes some bowlers can be unfit or whatever. You can add one more teams, Eng, to make it the top 6 teams during his golden era.

Waqar's performance when taking top 6 teams during his golden era




Waqar was a good bowler during his peak, but plenty of other bowlers troubled good teams a lot more than Waqar even during his peak period.

 

[mominsaigol]

Indians overrate everyone. It's nothing new.

1) Sachin is the best in Longetivity only, but Indians feel the need to believe he's the best in every era and is essentially bradman when in reality steve smith during his golden years and kumar Sangakara without gloves is far far superior to Sachin at his absolute peak.

2) Then Bumrah isn't even top 10 bowlers of all time but Indians want to crown him as superior to everyone such as Mcgrath and wasim but when you claim this to them, they get defensive and start throwing the whole, But we respect aussie cricket you aussie wannabe.

3) Similarly narratives for Laxman being crises man enter such as deapite playing 86 odi's which is longer then most careers, Indians feel the need to use The excuse that laxman just wasn't suited when he clearly was rubbish and wanted to play odi. Then in test, if youre not avergaing 50 as a Specialist, Key word specialist in one format then you're garbage, But Indians feel the need to nitpick certain innings and dub him as a crises man, When in reality he was a rubbish odi player, a rubbish opener who was made to open cause he wasn't good enough to fit in the middle order and finally misbah his way in to the middle eventually.

These narratives don't ever end.


However For some reason, Indians claim that they respect other cricketers but I don't see such respect ever being given.

I've seen Indian posters downplay, downgrade or downright insult many cricketers, Even bradman being insulted to a certain extent, But when I bring this up 3 excuses come about.

A) We never claimed this or I haven't seen anyone claim this

B) You're a wannabe aussie/ Pakistani and we know better.

 

[Buffet]

I don't think Waqar is top 10. I even said he isn't

I just said he's superior to Bumrah. Indians have a need to make bumrah the best ever when he clearly isn't.

I've seen Bumrah's performance in wc semi final and wc final in 2023, similarly I saw his performance in the recent NZ test game.

He ain't anything special. His golden moment was in 2024 wc.

Otherwise 2017 to 2021 he's been nothing spectacular and no please don't quote these er stats and all that in my face.

Not in the mood to play these filtered games atm.

You are free to rate anyone in any order. It's a free world.

Bumrah is not best ever right now. That should be discussed only after he hangs his boot.

 

[Romali_rotti]

You are free to rate anyone in any order. It's a free world.

Bumrah is not best ever right now. That should be discussed only after he hangs his boot.

Yeah in order for Bumrah to enter the GOAT conversations he needs to finish his career with atleast 250 plus test wickets and avg 19 - 21...

As of now Bumrah is not a goat..

 

[mominsaigol]

You are free to rate anyone in any order. It's a free world.

Bumrah is not best ever right now. That should be discussed only after he hangs his boot.

Then why are you posting statistics about Waqar Younis comparing him to other bowlers of his era and presenting then to me when I straight up said he isn't top 10 bowlers of all time?

On which planet do you see me overrating Waqar?

Thread is about Bumrah, I compared waqar to Bumrah.

Why are you shoving 1990 era stats on me? Or is that Bumrah has become everyone's god father and every other player must be downgraded immensely and formulate new narratives to appease Bumrah the overlord?

 

[Romali_rotti]

LOL, speaks a lot when someone like Ajay Jadeja makes a complete and utter fool out of you in an all important WC QF match against arch finals.

The MOM of that match should have been Waqar for single handedly helping us win. Of course Saeed Anwar and the likes of Saleem Malik choking didn't help them either.

Jadeja was a decent bat, he was a match fixer unfortunately. Not surprised Jadeja laid into Waqar.

 

[Buffet]

It's not Waqars fault his supporters make him out to be something he really isn't.



He is a good to an OK bowler vs tough competition.. That's not a bad thing but he is no goat...lol

I would say, over his entire career OK bowler against tough oppositions, but during his peak it was more than ok. I meant, average of 25-26 is very good even if many other bowlers did perform better than him even during his golden era/peak.

He goes as lower tier ATG for me. He was really fun to watch during his peak due to his insiwing yorkers with old ball. Tails were sitting sucks against him. Almost towards the end he picked up how to use new ball. Loved watching him and cricket history is richer due to having Waqar.

 

[Buffet]

Why are you shoving 1990 era stats on me? Or is that Bumrah has become everyone's god father and every other player must be downgraded immensely and formulate new narratives to appease Bumrah the overlord?

If you are going to compare players across era then one of the important data point will be how they stand up against their peers. That's the only reason I presented Waqar's stats during his peak or golden era.

 

[CrIc_Mystique]

As an Indian I agree our bias & tendencies is to hype exaggerate & over rate our boys.
By the same token there is a massive narrative, green smoke & concentrated effort by a lot of others to trivialize many of indian memorable victories or to diss off near misses , both of which have happened in large quantities in recent years.
Indian cricketers are no exception & subject to the same sniping & pettiness.
Enuff said

 

[Ab Fan]

Yeah in order for Bumrah to enter the GOAT conversations he needs to finish his career with atleast 250 plus test wickets and avg 19 - 21...

As of now Bumrah is not a goat..

A GOAT fast bowler will pick only 250 test wickets? I think that’s low.

He will become top 10 calibre with 250 test wickets at avg under 23.

 

[RexRex]

What a load of cack. Waqar in his prime was unbeatable.

Waqar has a legacy due to one and only one reason - the english media hype machine that went into overdrive after his 1992 and 96 tours to Eng...

 

[Ab Fan]

Marshall
McGrath
Hadlee
Steyn
Wasim
Ambrose
Imran
Donald
Lillee
Holding/ Garner
Garner/Holding
Waqar
Pollock
Walsh

Maybe not top 10, ut you're delusional if you think Bumrah is > Waqar during his golden era.

Why do you make assumptions by yourself? I said Waqar is not top 10 level, didn’t said Bumrah is yet either.

Currently, I would have Waqar at #12 for me since 1970 onwards. Bumrah is #17 for me.

Now coming to golden era, @Buffet already exposed how much of a minnow basher he was during his golden era. Let’s not treat as if he was some second coming of Marshall. He never was that good.

 

[Ab Fan]

Andy Roberts is next. I sometimes do put Andy Roberts above 2-3 names in that list, around Waqar level. He is rated very highly despite not outrageous stats.

 

[Hitman]

Now coming to golden era, @Buffet already exposed how much of a minnow basher he was during his golden era. Let’s not treat as if he was some second coming of Marshall. He never was that good.

New Zealand, Sri Lanka and Zimbabwe were the 3 teams he feasted on during his golden period, while flopping against Australia like anything.

Keep in mind that Sri Lanka were minnows till 1994/95, and Zimbabwe came out of their minnow status in around 1997, which lasted till 2003 WC.

 

[Ab Fan]

New Zealand, Sri Lanka and Zimbabwe were the 3 teams he feasted on during his golden period, while flopping against Australia like anything.

Keep in mind that Sri Lanka were minnows till 1994/95, and Zimbabwe came out of their minnow status in around 1997, which lasted till 2003 WC.

He is certainly overrated, still a lower tier ATG for me. Not many can claim success in both formats even though he has quite apparent flaws in both formats.

 

[Ab Fan]

From pre-1970, some known names include

Sydney Barnes
Fred Trueman
Ray Lindwall
Alan Davidson
Alec Bedser
Mike Proctor

 

[kron]

Maybe not top 10, ut you're delusional if you think Bumrah is > Waqar during his golden era.

What golden era? Before injury? Yea he was a beast but he was not untouchable.

 

[kron]

Then why are you posting statistics about Waqar Younis comparing him to other bowlers of his era and presenting then to me when I straight up said he isn't top 10 bowlers of all time?

On which planet do you see me overrating Waqar?

Thread is about Bumrah, I compared waqar to Bumrah.

Why are you shoving 1990 era stats on me? Or is that Bumrah has become everyone's god father and every other player must be downgraded immensely and formulate new narratives to appease Bumrah the overlord?

I agree. Bumrah cummins rabada are nothing compared to 90s bowlers.

They cannot compete at all in 90s bowling g friendly era.

 

[mominsaigol]

Omg, I already said Waqar isn't top 10 it's just bumrah is worse then waqar.

 

[Ab Fan]

Marshall
McGrath
Hadlee
Steyn
Wasim
Ambrose
Imran
Donald
Lillee
Holding/ Garner
Garner/Holding
Waqar
Pollock
Walsh

Why do you make assumptions by yourself? I said Waqar is not top 10 level, didn’t said Bumrah is yet either.

Currently, I would have Waqar at #12 for me since 1970 onwards. Bumrah is #17 for me.

Now coming to golden era, @Buffet already exposed how much of a minnow basher he was during his golden era. Let’s not treat as if he was some second coming of Marshall. He never was that good.

@mominsaigol , any comments?

 

[Romali_rotti]

Imagine if Dale Steyn got to bowl on those 90s wickets which Waqar played on. Steyn wouldve had over 700 wickets at below 22 avg.. What a bowler he was...

 

[mominsaigol]

@mominsaigol , any comments?

Why are you arguing with me when I said waqar is not top 10 but bumrah is below waqar.

 

[Ab Fan]

Why are you arguing with me when I said waqar is not top 10 but bumrah is below waqar.

It’s you who were arguing about this. Don’t know why but you said this while quoting me.

Maybe not top 10, ut you're delusional if you think Bumrah is > Waqar during his golden era.

 

[Hitman]

Imagine if Dale Steyn got to bowl on those 90s wickets which Waqar played on. Steyn wouldve had over 700 wickets at below 22 avg.. What a bowler he was...

Big fan. Pretty much the best Test fast bowler the cricketing world has seen since the great Glenn McGrath retired. Although Kagiso Rabada can surpass him provided he improves his record in Asia. Steyn was an absolute gun in India.

 

[aboveandbeyond]

Bumrah has fed off cow lashing t20 flat track bullies of this era. No way a potentia chucker is GOAT material.

Let's face it. We had Jimmy Anderson near unplayable from ages 35-40. That says every thing you want to know

 

[Romali_rotti]

Big fan. Pretty much the best Test fast bowler the cricketing world has seen since the great Glenn McGrath retired. Although Kagiso Rabada can surpass him provided he improves his record in Asia. Steyn was an absolute gun in India.

Yeah Steyn was the second best quick after McGrath imo.

That's what you call goats not a stat padder like Waqar who took a lot of cheap wickets vs weak oppositions lol...

 

[kron]

Omg, I already said Waqar isn't top 10 it's just bumrah is worse then waqar.

Bumrah is light years ahead of waqar.

 

[kron]

Bumrah would averaged 15 in those treacherous tracks of 90s era

 

[Romali_rotti]

Bumrah would averaged 15 in those treacherous tracks of 90s era

He wouldve been almost unplayable in the 90s. His awkward action, line and length wouldve made him a scary proposition....

 

[mominsaigol]

Bumrah is light years ahead of waqar.

I'm sure he's battling the death star somewhere and crossing the milky way right about now

 

[Hitman]

Yeah Steyn was the second best quick after McGrath imo.

That's what you call goats not a stat padder like Waqar who took a lot of cheap wickets vs weak oppositions lol...

Absolutely. Miandad and Waqar are both feathers of the same bird. The former choked all his life against the West Indies and ended with a laughable batting average of 29 against them (despite the likes of Shakoor Rana watching his back at home), the latter choked all his life against Australia and ended with a laughable bowling average of 34 at an even more laughable SR of 63 against them.

Rabada is another guy I rate very highly. While he hasn't done greatly in Asia, his overall record is absolutely phenomenal. 308 wickets at an average of 21.67 at an SR of 38.8

And he's just 29 years old. He can very easily go pass 500 Test wickets.​

 

[Ab Fan]

Between 1992-2005, we saw multiple fast bowlers of high quality such as McGrath, Ambrose, Wasim, Donald, Waqar, S Pollock and Walsh.

Post 2005, there was a shift in trend from test cricket to white ball and T20Is which meant the defense of batsmen was not as tight as before but the same shift was seen among fast bowlers too, the likes of Malinga and rest focused more on bowling LOI line and length, yorkers became so important and hence you simply can’t compare players across era based on same parameter.

Dale Steyn was by far the best and at its prime between 2005-2014 while rest were well behind. Post 2014, Anderson and Ashwin were the toughest bowlers in home-like conditions and did workable job in alien conditions.

In last 5-6 years, Cummins, Bumrah and Rabada have been the standouts out of which only Bumrah is the best in all formats combined.

 

[kron]

I'm sure he's battling the death star somewhere and crossing the milky way right about now

Yes everyone is quaking in their boots at the sight of waqar.

He ain't no wasim. If it's wasim then sure. Respect wasim bhai. Legend. One of the best ever. Even with diabetes.

But waqar. Nha.

I would take shoaib over him. Shoaib is so underrated.