SpiritOf1903
ODI Debutant
- Joined
- Oct 4, 2009
- Runs
- 9,135
Seems like yesterday he burst on to the scene with his unorthodox action.
Now the premier fast bowler in World Cricket.
Now the premier fast bowler in World Cricket.
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ATG teams had world class bowlers/world class batsmen/world class fielders.Right now India just has world class bowlers. Worst batting line up. Average fielding unit.The man can help India win even if his batters only put up 100 runs on the board. Such is quality and psychological hold on the opposition.
He clearly held back vs nz. Not surprised. But I do still want him to show up vs nz away when we tour next time. I understand most ATGs can have one a nation or 2 whom they struggle against but I still expect him to raise his game. Show more intensity. I feel like he really preserves himself vs nz. Never bowled with fire in that tests series vs nz back in India last time.ATG teams had world class bowlers/world class batsmen/world class fielders.Right now India just has world class bowlers. Worst batting line up. Average fielding unit.
He was holding back vs them last series. Bowlers lot slower. He seems to be not as good with sg ball when it comes to swinging with the new ball also.All that's great but what happens against New Zealand batsman? Surely they are not getting troubled with that action.
Yea he is chucking.Said it before and will say it again, I don't consider anything he does as legit until and unless he has been tested and cleared.
Before anyone brings up the fact that umpires have never reported him, I would use the same argument where 99 out of 100 commentators,, players and ex players praise Indian cricket to the hilt.... Its all about the money and the chance to double or triple their net worth.
It will be a dissapointing result for Aus. Going first in Perth was intentional to get easy win. Aus bowlers did their job. Batsmen need to step up. I mean playing at home and India has just Bumrah. Got to survive and score against others.Ind are not going to score more than 150 to 175 again, let them have some good lead and aus have a good target to achieve rather than paltry ones. If India wins, aus will never go for first test at perth.
He debuted in 2018 in test. Took 5-fers in SA, Aus and Eng. Helped India win test series in Aus first time. Helped his team win tests in Eng and SA. That was his first year in test with 48 test wickets in all away matches.Seems like yesterday he burst on to the scene with his unorthodox action.
Now the premier fast bowler in World Cricket.
Initially nobody could pick up his action, then injuries and he's come back even strongerHe debuted in 2018 in test. Took 5-fers in SA, Aus and Eng. Helped India win test series in Aus first time. Helped his team win tests in Eng and SA. That was his first year in test with 48 test wickets in all away matches.
I don't recall anyone starting like that in his first year of test cricket specially playing all away games agaisnt good teams. By the end of 2018, he was the primium fast bowler in world cricket because he was already doing very well in shorter formats and did extremely well in first away series in so many places. Normally it takes bowlers few series to do well.
That was 7 years ago. I think his injury made it feel like he started playing recently and became a premier fast bowler.
Its akin to India's result against nz on spin tracks.Aus went with age old belief than the present situation. Aus have similar issues to india with ageing superstar's and inconsistent performance. They should have gone for batting pitches hoping khawaja,head and Carey can take care.At the end if ind wins this match somehow,this may be the only bright spot for next 9 tests I believe(next 4 in bgt and 5 in eng)It will be a dissapointing result for Aus. Going first in Perth was intentional to get easy win. Aus bowlers did their job. Batsmen need to step up. I mean playing at home and India has just Bumrah. Got to survive and score against others.
Nah, not likely to happen. You need great bowling unit and not just one great bowler.The man can help India win even if his batters only put up 100 runs on the board. Such is quality and psychological hold on the opposition.
They had. Ishant/Shami as partners in crime. Each offered something different.Nah, not likely to happen. You need great bowling unit and not just one great bowler.
He releases the ball late, much later than others and that makes it hard for batsmen. Ball comes faster at you. I don't think it's easy to face when ball comes fast at you, moves both ways and he has dangeours bouncers as well. All that without change in action. It will be harder to pick up.Initially nobody could pick up his action, then injuries and he's come back even stronger
Yes, that was great bowling unit and that's why India won so many tests away with them. One grear bowler can win tests here and there but it's hard to win many away tests without good bowling unit.They had. Ishant/Shami as partners in crime. Each offered something different.
They had it before with shami ishan umesh etcNah, not likely to happen. You need great bowling unit and not just one great bowler.
He had a surgery. Likely to join the team in the backendYes, that was great bowling unit and that's why India won so many tests away with them. One grear bowler can win tests here and there but it's hard to win many away tests without good bowling unit.
What happened to Shami? Retired or or injured? At least two good and one decent can still work but just one good bowler won't work often even if the bowler is Bumrah.
Akhtar?Once a chucker, always a chucker.
Yep. Akhtar, lee murli, hsrbahjan, Ajmal bumrah. All chuckersAkhtar?
You're free to have your opinion.Yep. Akhtar, lee murli, hsrbahjan, Ajmal bumrah. All chuckers
Akthar Lee and bumrah are not chuckers. Rest yes.Yep. Akhtar, lee murli, hsrbahjan, Ajmal bumrah. All chuckers
Pakistan gave a scare to Aussies last year with zero great bowlers.Yes, that was great bowling unit and that's why India won so many tests away with them. One grear bowler can win tests here and there but it's hard to win many away tests without good bowling unit.
What happened to Shami? Retired or or injured? At least two good and one decent can still work but just one good bowler won't work often even if the bowler is Bumrah.
What we lack is a bhuvi ishant type swing bowler.Pakistan gave a scare to Aussies last year with zero great bowlers.
India has Bumrah who is a certified ATG, then they have Siraj who is a good support bowler and did well in Aus last time, Harshit Rana is a very good prospect.
There is no way to tell whether Siraj and Rana will/won't become world class test bowlers in the future, so comparing a young bowling attack to experienced once doesn't make sense here and won't give us the real answer.
Shami was injured but he is back in domestics, BCCI will probably send him to Aus after the first two tests.
We have some good talented bowlers in the squad, Akashdeep and Prasidh are tall hit the deck bowlers who are tailor made for Aussie conditions. All in all, I dont think that we lack firepower with the ball, our reserve pacers are not just young 22 year olds, they have played many first class and A games.
Shardul last time swung the ball both ways. Part of the reason he was successful in SA, England to some extent. He could swing the ball at 135.What we lack is a bhuvi ishant type swing bowler.
That's what we need for nz and England. And even SA
Cause remember even philtrundler was successful in SEN.
Can anyone of Reddy, Rana or Akash Deep become that?What we lack is a bhuvi ishant type swing bowler.
That's what we need for nz and England. And even SA
Cause remember even philtrundler was successful in SEN.
Huge difference between giving scare due to one bowler vs actually winning a long series. Yes, Bumrah is certified ATG bowler but Hadlee was also certified ATG bowler with just 7 away wins in entire career due to lack of support.Pakistan gave a scare to Aussies last year with zero great bowlers.
India has Bumrah who is a certified ATG, then they have Siraj who is a good support bowler and did well in Aus last time, Harshit Rana is a very good prospect.
There is no way to tell whether Siraj and Rana will/won't become world class test bowlers in the future, so comparing a young bowling attack to experienced once doesn't make sense here and won't give us the real answer.
Shami was injured but he is back in domestics, BCCI will probably send him to Aus after the first two tests.
We have some good talented bowlers in the squad, Akashdeep and Prasidh are tall hit the deck bowlers who are tailor made for Aussie conditions. All in all, I dont think that we lack firepower with the ball, our reserve pacers are not just young 22 year olds, they have played many first class and A games.
Huge difference between giving scare due to one bowler vs actually winning a long series. Yes, Bumrah is certified ATG bowler but Hadlee was also certified ATG bowler with just 7 away wins in entire career due to lack of support.
Point noted about Indian support bowlers being good/decent but let's wait and see how well they develop.
Yah, many fans don't realize how rare it's to have that variety and then two great spinners in same side who could actually bat. Home domination and even two series wins in Aus had contribution from Ashwin, Jadeja in batting and bowling both.You need the right mix of bowlers. All round bowlers. Reverse swing bowlers, conventional swing bowlers, Hit the deck bowlers, if possible left arm swing bowler. With Ishant and Shami India covered almost all the bases. Thakur briefly provided support as a swing bowler. Umesh/Shami reverse exponents and also shami is an outstanding seam bowler. Bumrah is a bit of everything. Ishant miserly, could swing, extract natural bounce.
England won 2005 series with this varietyYah, many fans don't realize how rare it's to have that variety and then two great spinners in same side who could actually bat. Home domination and even two series wins in Aus had contribution from Ashwin, Jadeja in batting and bowling both.
India ordinary batting line up was carried by ATG bowling unit plus lower orders batsmen ( Ashwin, Jadeja, Pant etc ).
Anyway, new era and new cycle. I am liking the fact the visitors are not simply folding and doing well. Good for test cricket. Just winning at home and folding easily away is very boring.
Philander has an amazing record in Australia too, he is underrated.What we lack is a bhuvi ishant type swing bowler.
That's what we need for nz and England. And even SA
Cause remember even philtrundler was successful in SEN.
Exactly when he was fit.Shardul last time swung the ball both ways. Part of the reason he was successful in SA, England to some extent. He could swing the ball at 135.
All hit the deck tbh. But harshit will be good in sena overall. Kuldeep Sen would be good in sena too.Can anyone of Reddy, Rana or Akash Deep become that?
About 29 no? He did pretty good. In ausPhilander has an amazing record in Australia too, he is underrated.
A short phase and 2.2 overs spell but enough for Bumrah to blow out the top order.
180 test wickets now!
More wickets than Shoaib alreadyWith these numbers already an ATG. 180 test wickets at 19.11 in the modern era without any external ball work.
That bowling avg has finally gone below 20 !!! It stands at 19.94 right now .... What a Bowler !!
Greatest ever.
Let’s be real. Bumrah averages 15 something in the 1970s, 1980s and Malcolm Marshal is constantly asked about how he feels about being talked about in the same sentence as Bumrah.
He's imagined a scenarios occuring in the 80sI think you meant someone else ... Marshall passed away a long time ago.
Only one flaw. Needs to improve average vs nz.With these numbers already an ATG. 180 test wickets at 19.11 in the modern era without any external ball work.
Intresting! Waqar seems quite overrated. I thought he may be averaging 22-24Away performance for all pacers sorted by Avg
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He is rated correctly as one of the legends. Loved watching him for 3-4 years in early 90s.Intresting! Waqar seems quite overrated. I thought he may be averaging 22-24
Okk. I didn't start watching cricket until after his retirement so I had no idea. Only heard about him being one of the two Ws of pakHe is rated correctly as one of the legends. Loved watching him for 3-4 years in early 90s.
He was far more dependent on one trick which worked mostly at home for him. Even at home during his peak, good batting sides countered him well. Till 1994 - 7 tests at home against Ind/Aus/WI avg of 25 and same time 9 tests against NZ/SL/Zim Avg 13. That was in his peak and then we went downhill.
Anyway, his career record against non-minnows( excluding BD/Zim) is avg of 25+ and it reflects his ability. But career avg of 25-26 against non-minnows is very very good.
Given his limitations, away avg of 27-28 is good against non-minnows. One of the legends of cricket and everyone does not have to be top tier great to be rated.
He is rated correctly as one of the legends. Loved watching him for 3-4 years in early 90s.
He was far more dependent on one trick which worked mostly at home for him. Even at home during his peak, good batting sides countered him well. Till 1994 - 7 tests at home against Ind/Aus/WI avg of 25 and same time 9 tests against NZ/SL/Zim Avg 13. That was in his peak and then we went downhill.
Anyway, his career record against non-minnows( excluding BD/Zim) is avg of 25+ and it reflects his ability. But career avg of 25-26 against non-minnows is very very good.
About 29 no? He did pretty good. In aus
But he was supported by? Steyn and morkel.
Just like before when we were super dangerous as the combo of bumrah shami ishant and umesh were deadly.
More wickets than Shoaib already
Okk. I didn't start watching cricket until after his retirement so I had no idea. Only heard about him being one of the two Ws of pak
Philander is only good on seaming tracks. He averages 45 plus in Asia. So no he is nothing special.Pujara during commentary today talking about how it was more difficult to face philander than Rabada.
He was giving the explanation on why he was tougher to face because of less reaction time even though he was slower than Rabada.
Fans don’t understand these things and that’s why their opinions are worth nothing.
Credit also goes to harshit and even siraj kept it tight surprisingly.Aus actually bowled well, Bumrah is simply outbowling Aus great pace unit. He is making batsmen play most deliveries and that becomes hard for batsmen when they are starting.
Yah, keeping it tight as unit makes it hard because you don't have easy runs then.Credit also goes to harshit and even siraj kept it tight surprisingly.
My dad reckons waqar was a better bowler than wasim in tests. Wasim better in odi.Just a question to all PPers who watched Wasim bowl:
How many of you thought that he was averaging 28-29 against top sides?
I am a bit surpised to see him averaging 28-29 against top sides to be honest. He had far more skills and my recollection is him troubling good batsmen regularly. I used to tune in to watch Pakistnai game just to watch Wasim. Yes, skill wise Wasim could do do everything, but I did not realize he was averaging 28-29 against good sides in his career.
Just a question to all PPers who watched Wasim bowl:
How many of you thought that he was averaging 28-29 against top sides?
I am a bit surpised to see him averaging 28-29 against top sides to be honest. He had far more skills and my recollection is him troubling good batsmen regularly. I used to tune in to watch Pakistnai game just to watch Wasim. Yes, skill wise Wasim could do do everything, but I did not realize he was averaging 28-29 against good sides in his career.
Don't see bumrah playing more than 60 to 65 games max. Right now 41. he will get to 300Ok guys stop the comparisons with legendary bowlers who already have more than 200-230 wickets away/against non minnows.
EG:
Only
Wasim Akram
McGrath
Imran Khan
Malcolm Marshall
Hadlee
Fit the longevity criteria.
Bumrah has about 100 more wickets left against non minnows and in away conditions.
A lot can also change during this time.
So at present he’s definitely the best bowler in the world.
BUT
He’s far from greatness when it comes to ALL TIME GREATS.
Let him take 100 more Test wickets and then we will compare.
Ok guys stop the comparisons with legendary bowlers who already have more than 200-230 wickets away/against non minnows.
EG:
Only
Wasim Akram
McGrath
Imran Khan
Malcolm Marshall
Hadlee
Fit the longevity criteria.
Bumrah has about 100 more wickets left against non minnows and in away conditions.
A lot can also change during this time.
So at present he’s definitely the best bowler in the world.
BUT
He’s far from greatness when it comes to ALL TIME GREATS.
Let him take 100 more Test wickets and then we will compare.
Yeah longevity is difficult.Don't see bumrah playing more than 60 to 65 games max. Right now 41. he will get to 300
Should be just about enough.
I saw both since early 90s. No way Waqar was better in any format than Wasim. Waqar was too dependent on reverse.My dad reckons waqar was a better bowler than wasim in tests. Wasim better in odi.
I always felt it was the other way around.
And I have seen games since 90s.
I feel wasim definitely was more skilled with the red cherry.
Lot of catches get dropped from wasims bowling which hurt his figures a bit. Honestly even bumrah has a lot of drops. He could have had labu and the other fellow out ages back in first innings. They may not have crossed 80s
And 29 vs SA but that was low sample size of 4 tests. Yes, taking wicket is surely different than troubling batsmen but over a long career, if you trouble neough then thngs evens out and you take wickets as well. That's why I was a bit surpised by Wasim also averaging that high.Add NZ and his average comes down to 25.5.
Surprisingly, Wasim averages 30 vs Eng after 18 matches and almost 29 vs India.
He surely used to trouble the batsmen but taking wickets is another thing. I remember other bowlers used to benefit coz Akram created pressure from one end and often ended up with lesser wickets.
Weird criterion to be honest.Ok guys stop the comparisons with legendary bowlers who already have more than 200-230 wickets away/against non minnows.
I don’t see you using the same yardstick for TendulkarAlso
Overall Test wickets also matter.
He has to take at least 300 wickets against non minnows to become eligible to be compared against the likes of:
Wasim Akram
Malcolm Marshall
McGrath
Imran Khan
Hadlee
Steyn
Ambrose
What is the wickets count of Bumrah!?
A GRAND 169!
So, a lot of work still to be done.
A long road ahead.
Longevity wins.
Philander is only good on seaming tracks. He averages 45 plus in Asia. So no he is nothing special.
Fans who have player cricket at a high level or even a fairly competitive level know quite a bit.
Great players seldom become great coaches.
You see that alot in football
God doesn't bless everyone equally.
My dad reckons waqar was a better bowler than wasim in tests. Wasim better in odi.
I always felt it was the other way around.
And I have seen games since 90s.
I feel wasim definitely was more skilled with the red cherry.
Lot of catches get dropped from wasims bowling which hurt his figures a bit. Honestly even bumrah has a lot of drops. He could have had labu and the other fellow out ages back in first innings. They may not have crossed 80s