PM Modi set to review Indus Waters Treaty

[Waseem]

This Modi dramaybaaz has come completely undone. He has been a source of embarrassment for his entire country.

I understand Indians have to defend his antics on international forums but I'm sure they too are troubled by it.

Dramaybaaz indeed! In same speech the Chameleon talks about isolating Pakistan and then challenegs to end poverty (which obviously is the best challenege in the interest of both nations). He is trying to be oversmart but is definitely a fool.

 

[desi_launda]

Good.Very diplomatic and sinister at the same time.

 

[Thivagar]

Media is ran by people who think they are knowledged enough and often times to push their agenda. Majority of the population aren't aware of their own action and it is a fact. This is where thesis and scholarly written articles come to play, those are the people with vast majority who spent their entire life studying one or several issues. It is idiotic to listen to Arnab or any other media personals.

 

[PakLFC]

Paani ki jung?? Modi seems to be a confused man blowing hot and cold.

 

[www787]

With all due respect, anyone believing this is implicitly saying, "my country and its leaders are stupid."

I don't claim to be an expert in Indo-Pak politics, but in general, a country won't play with fire where the variables are out of its control.

What variables?

1) International backlash (water isn't taken lightly as a resource)
2) Potential instigation of war
3) Apprehension from Nepal and Bangladesh (separate water treaties)
4) China's control over Tibet (2 rivers going into India)
5) Additional costs of diversion (i.e. dams, labor, equipment)

Now, from all of these variables, you may argue one or two won't be factors. Even one would plateau the Indian economy (while a prolonged war would devastate it).

Only winner would be China.

So, either you're Chinese or being led astray by Modi.

My guess would be led astray by Modi Sahib

 

[PakLFC]

This could be a plan by India. First do a false flag then make it a water issue. They always knew that war was not an option.

 

[dubcity]

With all due respect, anyone believing this is implicitly saying, "my country and its leaders are stupid."

I don't claim to be an expert in Indo-Pak politics, but in general, a country won't play with fire where the variables are out of its control.

What variables?

1) International backlash (water isn't taken lightly as a resource)
2) Potential instigation of war
3) Apprehension from Nepal and Bangladesh (separate water treaties)
4) China's control over Tibet (2 rivers going into India)
5) Additional costs of diversion (i.e. dams, labor, equipment)

Now, from all of these variables, you may argue one or two won't be factors. Even one would plateau the Indian economy (while a prolonged war would devastate it).

Only winner would be China.

So, either you're Chinese or being led astray by Modi.

1) a) I think it is worth the backlash for having the international community pay close attention to the IWT. Pak gets 80% of water it and make the case that 50% would be the fair share.

b) UN does not get involved in bilateral resource disputes. Bangladesh tried before sheik Hasina. Didn't get anywhere. If you have prof otherwise, present it.

2) OMG, becos pak actions are ones which promote regional peace

3) Nepal India water treaty? There isn't one. Bangladesh one is set to expire in 10 years and india is already planning to dam it up.

4) china has only 30% control over brahmaputra water and bangladesh is most depended on it. Would love to see Bangladesh screwed over by China.

5) Would be well worth the expenditure if rice and cotton production of pak can be cut.

Hell, India doesn't even have to renege on the treaty. there are enough provisions for storage and cultivation that india hasn't utilized. Doing that alone would reck paks agriculture.

not a bad plan if you ask me.

 

[kingusama92]

1) a) I think it is worth the backlash for having the international community pay close attention to the IWT. Pak gets 80% of water it and make the case that 50% would be the fair share.

b) UN does not get involved in bilateral resource disputes. Bangladesh tried before sheik Hasina. Didn't get anywhere. If you have prof otherwise, present it.

2) OMG, becos pak actions are ones which promote regional peace

3) Nepal India water treaty? There isn't one. Bangladesh one is set to expire in 10 years and india is already planning to dam it up.

4) china has only 30% control over brahmaputra water and bangladesh is most depended on it. Would love to see Bangladesh screwed over by China.

5) Would be well worth the expenditure if rice and cotton production of pak can be cut.

Hell, India doesn't even have to renege on the treaty. there are enough provisions for storage and cultivation that india hasn't utilized. Doing that alone would reck paks agriculture.

not a bad plan if you ask me.

Let's assume your points are correct for a second.

So, the premise is to "wreck" Pakistan and Bangladesh?

Let's assume all of this goes through. India succeeds with its isolation strategy. They cut the water source or uses other means to impact Pakistan's agriculture.

What next?

The economy at this point will begin declining (slowly at first). How do you think the markets will respond to what can be defined as resource-based "warmongering"?

Is the assumption Pakistan will let itself be pushed into a corner? I'd assume it would lead to an unfortunate declaration of war considering how volatile they are. At this point, the economy would begin to bottom out for both countries especially in the long-term with added military debt. Investors will be running away like Usain Bolt in the 100m sprint. Maybe faster.

India will then divert its funds into the military budget which has already seen a 7% increase in India.

The Indian rupee would be smothered under the weight of war. Do you know who would pay for this? The average Indian citizen through taxation and inflation.

In essence, while trying to "wreck" Pakistan and Bangladesh, you'd wreck yourself and lose all hope for economic supremacy.

Unless you're Chinese too. They'd rule Asia for decades with no competition in sight.

 

[pillionrider]

Let's assume your points are correct for a second.

So, the premise is to "wreck" Pakistan and Bangladesh?

Let's assume all of this goes through. India succeeds with its isolation strategy. They cut the water source or uses other means to impact Pakistan's agriculture.

What next?

The economy at this point will begin declining (slowly at first). How do you think the markets will respond to what can be defined as resource-based "warmongering"?

Is the assumption Pakistan will let itself be pushed into a corner? I'd assume it would lead to an unfortunate declaration of war considering how volatile they are. At this point, the economy would begin to bottom out for both countries especially in the long-term with added military debt. Investors will be running away like Usain Bolt in the 100m sprint. Maybe faster.

India will then divert its funds into the military budget which has already seen a 7% increase in India.

The Indian rupee would be smothered under the weight of war. Do you know who would pay for this? The average Indian citizen through taxation and inflation.

In essence, while trying to "wreck" Pakistan and Bangladesh, you'd wreck yourself and lose all hope for economic supremacy.

Unless you're Chinese too. They'd rule Asia for decades with no competition in sight.

Dude let it be. Too many FB warriors and Arnab Goswami fans nowadays.

 

[kingusama92]

Dude let it be. Too many FB warriors and Arnab Goswami fans nowadays.

You're probably right.

The veil of nationalism has long been used by politicians to mislead and the Internet shows its worst side. These FB warriors assume they're backing the country, but it's the exact opposite unfortunately. It's essentially promoting a self-induced implosion.

Can't fault a man for trying though.

 

[dubcity]

Let's assume your points are correct for a second.

So, the premise is to "wreck" Pakistan and Bangladesh?

Let's assume all of this goes through. India succeeds with its isolation strategy. They cut the water source or uses other means to impact Pakistan's agriculture.

What next?

The economy at this point will begin declining (slowly at first). How do you think the markets will respond to what can be defined as resource-based "warmongering"?

Is the assumption Pakistan will let itself be pushed into a corner? I'd assume it would lead to an unfortunate declaration of war considering how volatile they are. At this point, the economy would begin to bottom out for both countries especially in the long-term with added military debt. Investors will be running away like Usain Bolt in the 100m sprint. Maybe faster.

India will then divert its funds into the military budget which has already seen a 7% increase in India.

The Indian rupee would be smothered under the weight of war. Do you know who would pay for this? The average Indian citizen through taxation and inflation.

In essence, while trying to "wreck" Pakistan and Bangladesh, you'd wreck yourself and lose all hope for economic supremacy.

Unless you're Chinese too. They'd rule Asia for decades with no competition in sight.

No need to assume. I have enough sources to back up what I have posted.

Rest of your post sounds like wishful thinking. Even if it play out the way you put it, not sure that would be bad a thing.

 

[dubcity]

Unless you're Chinese too. They'd rule Asia for decades with no competition in sight.

BTW, pak has been playing the china card since 1965. thro' 4 wars including one which liberated bangladesh.

Hasn't done much to help. not sure it will now.

 

[kingusama92]

No need to assume. I have enough sources to back up what I have posted.

Rest of your post sounds like wishful thinking. Even if it play out the way you put it, not sure that would be bad a thing.

Wishful thinking = People from both sides using common sense instead of being swayed by politicians/media.

I'm merely highlighting the reality of what this volatile region would decay into.

 

[kingusama92]

BTW, pak has been playing the china card since 1965. thro' 4 wars including one which liberated bangladesh.

Hasn't done much to help. not sure it will now.

That's not the point I'm making.

I'll give you a cricket-based example.

Recently, Cricket World Cup 2015 took place. India beat Pakistan. But who won the world cup? Australia.

China is Australia. They'll watch these two nations go at it and take home the prize as Asia's economic superpower without moving a finger. If they feel impatient, the water will be cut and it'll constrict India even more during a time it's under war.

China doesn't care about Pakistan. The nation is just a tactical chip in this financial race against India.

The sad part is, all of this is being instigated by India (i.e. cries of isolation) when it already has an upper hand economically over Pakistan.

Any time I see Indian politicians bring up Pakistan, I see leaders who are weak and unwilling to pursue the greater prize of beating China at an economic level, so they mislead instead.

 

[90MPH]

BTW, pak has been playing the china card since 1965. thro' 4 wars including one which liberated bangladesh.

Hasn't done much to help. not sure it will now.

But last 10 years or so China has so much investments in Pakistan including the new multi billion dollar corridor that is being built.

Even your own military analysts have said that China is more likely to get involved now than before, as the.new regime is much more pro PaK. That said Pakistan can more than defend itself should such a attack happen.

Anyway all we see is talk from your media about war, then isolation and now water terrorism. Lets see some action.

 

[DW44]

ZHK did a show on the water dispute between Pakistan and India, and it's wider implications for the future of the region. Worth a watch. A very nice, carefully researched analysis with none of the jingoistic vitriol that is so typical of such programs in India and Pakistan.

 

[ask_analyse_act]

Day 1: Attack Pak.
Day 2: We are scared to attack, so isolate Pak globally.
Day 3: Isolation requests rejected even by close allies like Russia and Iran, so kick Pakistani artists out.
Day 4: Indian fans dont want Pakistani artists out, so we wont play cricket.
Day 5: We are already not playing cricket with Pak, so lets stop water.
Day 6: but then China will stop our water too.
……..
keep making your country look like a joke Modi.

when u elect chaiwalas as PM , expectations shouldn't be high... India suffering for electing such people to run the govt..

 

[nish_mate]

when u elect chaiwalas as PM , expectations shouldn't be high... India suffering for electing such people to run the govt..

Guess on that we dont really need a lesson from parosees on electing leaders.- their cycle is elect a Bhutto, then get a military, elect a Sharif, get military, rest again back to Bhutto, military.

No wonder Pakistan is suffering from being a model state in the 60's to well lets say bit of bother state now.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

That would be the best decision for Pakistan on the longer run, would push the country to embrace new geopolitical equations and a more technocratic approach at home. Go Modi-ji.

That is assuming that Modi ji would actually have the cojones to follow through on such a threat rather than spout empty rhetoric for a dim-witted audience at home.

 

[MRSN]

all are talks. Modi ne bari bari chori hai but he is brought to earth by experts.

Nusrat Javed explained what actually will happen and Pakistan must be ready to tackle this situation.

<iframe frameborder="0" width="480" height="270" src="//www.dailymotion.com/embed/video/x4uw6g8" allowfullscreen></iframe><br /><a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4uw6g8_detailed-analysis-by-nusrat-javed-on-modi-s-new-strategy-to-block-pakistan-s-waters_news" target="_blank"></a> <i><a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/pkpoliticsvz" target="_blank"></a></i>

 

[Syed1]

all are talks. Modi ne bari bari chori hai but he is brought to earth by experts.

Nusrat Javed explained what actually will happen and Pakistan must be ready to tackle this situation.

<iframe frameborder="0" width="480" height="270" src="//www.dailymotion.com/embed/video/x4uw6g8" allowfullscreen></iframe><br /><a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4uw6g8_detailed-analysis-by-nusrat-javed-on-modi-s-new-strategy-to-block-pakistan-s-waters_news" target="_blank"></a> <i><a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/pkpoliticsvz" target="_blank"></a></i>

Nusrat Javed is a good analyst, but he is corrupt to the core and a PPP jiyala.

The only people worse than MQM supporters are PPP jiyalas.

 

[MRSN]

Nusrat Javed is a good analyst, but he is corrupt to the core and a PPP jiyala.

The only people worse than MQM supporters are PPP jiyalas.

normally I don't like him as he gets hyper easily and loses control but on this matter I think he was right. And I agree he is big time status quo supporter especially PPP.

 

[Syed1]

In any case stopping of our water will be considered as declaration of war. All bets will be off in that scenario. If we have to die from thirst, might as well die trying to eliminate it.

Also Pakistan does NOT have a problem with using nukes as first strike.


India should realize that it is inviting war and all out war in this region. The consequences will be unimaginable and widespread.

 

[CricketCartoons]

In any case stopping of our water will be considered as declaration of war. All bets will be off in that scenario. If we have to die from thirst, might as well die trying to eliminate it.

Also Pakistan does NOT have a problem with using nukes as first strike.


India should realize that it is inviting war and all out war in this region. The consequences will be unimaginable and widespread.

Lol. Pakistan is afraid of using its nukes on India. If you guys have courage then throw an atom bum at us.

 

[Syed1]

Lol. Pakistan is afraid of using its nukes on India. If you guys have courage then throw an atom bum at us.

Sorry we are not like Modi. Nukes are not china bum that can be used just for fun. Blocking of water will directly impact the survival of Pakistan and in that scenario the use of nukes will be JUSTIFIED.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Sorry we are not like Modi. Nukes are not china bum that can be used just for fun. Blocking of water will directly impact the survival of Pakistan and in that scenario the use of nukes will be JUSTIFIED.

Survival of Pakistan is at stake, so lets throw atom bum and leave no doubt regarding the survival of Pakistan and India both. If you guys hate India so much, why drink water from our rivers?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Nuclear first strike is also empty threat same as Modi's water strike. The only difference is one is made by a failed terrorist state, while the other is made by a country shining like a star to lead the globe by 2050 in politics, technology and hygiene.

 

[street cricketer]

Chinese are smart. They know they can own India by controlling Brahmaputra water. So they declared Tibet as part of China. They want India to spend all its budget in controlling its borders and on weapons while ignoring its infrastructure issues.

Pakistan is not India's enemy. It is China.

Pakistan is only a tool China uses to troll India. They are smart and they are exploiting the rivalry between India and China.

China aspires to dominate Asia and world. They do not want a prospering India so close to them who has the potential to challenge their might. They will do anything to harm India's interests.

Now, USA wants someone to stand up to China in Asia. Hence their love for India. So they are going to turn a blind eye to Kashmir conflict. If USA supports India, so does its allies in Europe.

Global politics is ****. There are no friends. Its all about convenience.

Honestly this is the issue in a nutshell. China's rivals in its vicinity are all too small to pose any real challenge. Even Japan's economy shrinks when compared to China. Vietnam is insignificant to China in the broader scheme of things and the PRC has always the North Korea card to play against South Korea to its comforts whenever necessary. The only real possible threat is from India because of its size, which is why the japs are investing a lot in India nowadays. But Kashmir is a lucky draw for China, they know that India and Pakistan will keep squabbling over it for years to come and flush out millions for it. It is playing the Pakistan card against India to keep it in check. The Americans who have never had a cordial relationship with India in the past are now warming up to India to counterbalance China's hegemony in Asia. Russians are now sad with their BFF's friendship with America and have started thinking about leaning towards Pakistan.

We need to conduct a Royal Rumble to decide the winner.

 

[Lonewarrior]

so basically, Modi make the Indian janta fool again.
they said the indian share in IWT is 19%, and also they can use water for 3.5mn for excess use. but they didnt use excess water for 3.5mn in past. now they will use it to teach a lesson to pakistan without violating IWT.
so basically pakistan will have its 81% share without having any issues.
so modi and indian media just made his bhakts fool again. Good face saving for Modi and India.

)

 

[Lonewarrior]

If you guys hate India so much, why drink water from our rivers?

No love, the Indus water is ours.
wherever the river ends, its belongs to that country. its the International law.

 

[Hornbill]

Three important ways New Delhi plans to use provisions in the Indus Water Treaty to turn the heat on Islamabad:

1. Meetings of 'Permanent Indus Commission' suspended

Official sources said the Indus commissioners will meet only in the absence of terrorism. These commissioners meet about twice a year and have met every year since the treaty was signed, even during the 1965, 1971 and Kargil wars.

Implication

Pakistan at a dead end. Here's how:

* Treaty provides for three-stage grievance redress. Disputes first raised at meetings (two a year). If unresolved, dispute is referred to neutral expert World Bank appoints. If that too fails, sides can apply for arbitration by the UN's court of arbitration

* If the first stage of dispute redressal is suspended, the other two steps cannot kick in. This leads to a dead end for Pakistan

2. Restart Tulbul project

India unilaterally suspended the Tulbul project (Islamabad calls it Wullar Barrage) in 1987 after Pakistan objected. The project was part of the composite dialogue, but the dialogue itself was junked in its earlier form by the Manmohan Singh government. The decision to review the suspension signalled the Modi government's intent to revive it irrespective of Pakistan's protests.

Implication

India gets to control Jhelum water, impact Pakistan agriculture

* Project can create problems for Pakistan's triple-canal project that connects Jhelum-Chenab with Upper Bari Doab Canal

* With a barrage, India controls release of water into Jhelum, which could trigger a flood or drought in POK and Pakistan. Serious implications for agriculture in Pakistan

What reviving the Tulbul Project means

* The Tulbul project is a "navigation lock-cum-control structure" at the mouth of the lake, located on the Jhelum river

* It is a key intra-state channel to ferry state's goods & people. To sustain navigation through the year a minimum depth of water in the lake is necessary

* The idea to ensure year-round navigation along the 20-km stretch from Anantnag to Srinagar and Baramulla, and on the 22 km-stretch between Sopore and Baramulla that becomes non-navigable in winter with water depth of only 2.5 ft

* The project envisages water release from lake to maintain minimum draught of 4.5 feet in Jhelum

* India had started constructing a 439 feet long barrage at the lake's mouth

* Pakistan objected and construction was halted in 1987

3. An inter-ministerial task force

The government set up an inter-ministerial task force to look at India's usage of the waters from the western rivers. According to the treaty, India has unrestricted use of the eastern rivers (Ravi, Beas, Sutlej), but only 20% use of the western rivers. However, India is allowed water from these rivers for "domestic and non-consumptive use, hydropower and agriculture, subject to certain limits".

Implication

India grossly under-utilises its entitlement under the 1960-treaty where it can use all the waters of the Jhelum, Chenab and Indus

http://www.timesofindia.com/india/H...the-heat-on-Pakistan/articleshow/54544929.cms

 

[waqar goraya]

I hear its trade and MFN status now, when India exports to Pakistan are almost thrice compared to Pakistani exports to India )

Don't some of the few sensible Indians here feel sad about this stupidity at the highest level?

 

[velu]

I hear its trade and MFN status now, when India exports to Pakistan are almost thrice compared to Pakistani exports to India )

Don't some of the few sensible Indians here feel sad about this stupidity at the highest level?

even though we export more to pak , our exports to pak are meager when compared our overall exports

 

[velu]

We are yet to utilize our share of water , probably we will start putting means to utilize our share and then see how it pans out ..

and coming back to most of the PPers argument abt breaking international law , look at what china is doing in south china sea ..
other than india n pak and few of our neighboring countries related to this, nobody ll care

practically we cant built dams and stop water , it might actually flood us .. but we can build dams in the name of controlling floods and we can take control of when to release it

anyway i really dont think its practical to divert the water towards east .. so people dont need to panic
but modi might be already thinking abt diverting the water towards thar desert and let it evaporate

 

[waqar goraya]

even though we export more to pak , our exports to pak are meager when compared our overall exports

Then it looks even more nonsensical.

 

[Varun]

That's not the point I'm making.

I'll give you a cricket-based example.

Recently, Cricket World Cup 2015 took place. India beat Pakistan. But who won the world cup? Australia.

China is Australia. They'll watch these two nations go at it and take home the prize as Asia's economic superpower without moving a finger. If they feel impatient, the water will be cut and it'll constrict India even more during a time it's under war.

China doesn't care about Pakistan. The nation is just a tactical chip in this financial race against India.

The sad part is, all of this is being instigated by India (i.e. cries of isolation) when it already has an upper hand economically over Pakistan.

Any time I see Indian politicians bring up Pakistan, I see leaders who are weak and unwilling to pursue the greater prize of beating China at an economic level, so they mislead instead.

This is a fantastic post.

Modi and the current BJP government have done a lot right, but the Pakistan strategy is utterly woeful.

 

[Nostalgic]

I reviewed the Indus Water Treaty too once, for a Pak Studies class, but it didn't appear on the exam. Imagine my chagrin at all that effort wasted. Down the drain, so to speak.

 

[Hornbill]

Pakistan urges World Bank to stop Indian projects on Neelum, Chenab

http://www.dawn.com/news/1286590/pakistan-urges-world-bank-to-stop-indian-projects-on-neelum-chenab

 

[dubcity]

Pakistan urges World Bank to stop Indian projects on Neelum, Chenab

http://www.dawn.com/news/1286590/pakistan-urges-world-bank-to-stop-indian-projects-on-neelum-chenab

Hasn't stopped a single project. won't be any different now. There is no limit on the number of ROR projects India can build on the western rivers. Would make a very nice flow control mechanism.

 

[Lonewarrior]

LOL. parosio ki choti choti khushiyan.
btw i heard that all the meetings in indian govt regarding IWT are cancelled.

 

[Hornbill]

Hasn't stopped a single project. won't be any different now. There is no limit on the number of ROR projects India can build on the western rivers. Would make a very nice flow control mechanism.

I read somewhere that two projects are going to get commissioned with in a year or two. According to NHPC the potential of hydroelectric power generation is 18000mw but they are generating only 3000mw. NHPC is already earning billions of rupees from Kashmir hydroelectric projects. I think Central government is not just focussing on building flow controlling mechanisms.

 

[PakLFC]

It's not as if India can stop the water overnight. Will probably take years by which time new circumstances would have developed.

 

[velu]

Then it looks even more nonsensical.

dont think so ..
pakistan is not even in our top 10 export destination

 

[Zak_Fan]

We can not and should not go against the treaty. However, if some clauses allow us to increase our share in water, then sure, go ahead with it.

 

[waqar goraya]

dont think so ..
pakistan is not even in our top 10 export destination

Because there can only be two reasons for justifying this. Either that it hurts Pakistan or that it propagates the message that India is even ready to sacrifice its economy to avoid any engagement with Pakistan. ( notwithstanding that avoidance of any engagement with Pakistan is itself a questionable stance).
All this useless chest thumping from the shinning and rising India does not suit its stature.

 

[MenInG]

New Delhi’s stubbornness over Pakistan-India water disputes persists as it is yet to respond to a letter sent from Islamabad even after the passage of a month.

A meeting of water experts from both sides is scheduled to be held in New Delhi this month, but now it seems that the talks would be delayed.

A three-day meeting of water experts from both the countries was held on March 1 in Islamabad.

According to sources, it was agreed in that meeting to hold talks in New Delhi in May.

The Indus Water Commission will soon write a second letter to its Indian counterpart to convene a meeting.

Islamabad has objections over New Delhi’s plans to build projects on Chenab River in Indian Illegally Occupied Jammu and Kashmir (IIOJK), the sources added.

The sources said India had also approved the launch of illegal water projects on the Indus River.

The construction of water projects by India will reduce the flow of water in Pakistan’s rivers.

In March, Islamabad and New Delhi had reiterated to implement the Indus Waters Treaty (IWT) following the 117th meeting of the India-Pakistan Permanent Indus Commission.

Under the relevant provisions of the IWT 1960, the meeting takes place alternatively in Pakistan and India annually.

The New Delhi’s delegation comprising 10 members was headed by Indian Commissioner for Indus Waters PK Saxena, while Islamabad’s delegation was led by Pakistani Commissioner for Indus Waters Syed Muhammad Mehar Ali Shah.

Pakistan had reiterated its observations on the Kiru Hydroelectric project (HEP) located upstream river Chenab. Pakistan's position on the controversial project was that the design of the project could affect the flow of the Chenab River in Pakistan. This will have a direct impact on the agricultural areas adjacent to Head Marala, a major reservoir near Sialkot. Islamabad also raised its objection on New Delhi’s new run-of-the-river small HEPs on Western rivers.

“Response to Pakistan’s objections to Indian projects including Pakal Dul and Lower Kalnai was also sought,” read the communiqué issued after the meeting.

The Indian side was also urged to communicate advance flood-flow information as per the provisions of the treaty and the practice in vogue from 1989 until 2018.

“Both sides reiterated their commitment to implement the Indus Waters Treaty in its true spirit and expressed the hope that the next meeting of the commission would be held at an early date in India,” it added.

India has categorically rejected Pakistan's concerns over the provision of data on the flow of eastern rivers Ravi, Satluj and Beas as per the 1989 data-sharing arrangement.

Express Tribune

 

[MenInG]

India on Tuesday assured Pakistan of discussing its concerns over New Delhi's hydroelectric projects on the Western rivers.

The assurance came at the 118th meeting of the Pakistan-India Permanent Indus Commission (PIC), held in New Delhi from May 30-31, the Foreign Office said in a statement.

A six-member Pakistani delegation was led by Pakistan Commissioner for Indus Waters, Syed Muhammad Mehar Ali Shah, while the Indian side was headed by Indian Commissioner for Indus Waters AK Pal.

The Pakistani side also sought a response to the objections on Indian projects including Pakal Dul, while also urging to communicate in advance flood-flow information as per the provisions of the Treaty and the practice in vogue from 1989 until 2018.

The Indian side assured to arrange tours and inspections after the coming flood season. It also assured that Pakistan’s outstanding objections would be discussed in the next meeting as they were still in the process of examining the details.

Both sides reiterated their commitment to implement the Indus Waters Treaty in its true spirit and expressed the hope that the next meeting of the Commission would be held at an early date in Pakistan.

The communique added that a wide range of water-related issues was discussed on the occasion, including the advance sharing of flood information, a programme of tours and inspections and the signing of a report of the Permanent Indus Commission for the year ending March 31, 2022.

Under the relevant provisions of the Indus Waters Treaty (IWT) 1960, the meeting takes place alternatively in Pakistan and India annually.

Express Tribune

 

[Romali_rotti]

Pakistan needs to be very careful here, if terrorists activities happen in Kashmir, PM Modi may use the water restrictions to cause a lot of harm to Pakistan..

Indians are in total advantage here, they can either flood or drought Pakistan depending on what they choose..

Hopefully this will not be used as a weapon by India and also Pakistan will take its head out of the sand stop causing terrorists activities in Kashmir etc..

 

[MenInG]

The Foreign Office has expressed concerned over the release of water by India into the already flooded rivers of Pakistan, saying that the practice under these circumstances has been a “recurrent” problem.


“I think we will have to check, as what you are referring to is very recent, so need to check with our Indus Waters Commission whether such decision to release water or the flood data was shared by the Indian side in a timely manner or not,” Foreign Office spokesperson Asim Iftikhar told reporters here at a weekly news briefing.

Torrential monsoon rains have caused havoc in many parts of Pakistan with over 350 deaths and damage to property and livestock. In the midst of natural catastrophe, it was reported that India released 300,000 cusecs of water downstream into the already flooded rivers of Pakistan.

“Regarding the floods, this is an unfortunate situation and that's why you would have seen a lot of focus and attention being paid to this matter, led by the prime minister himself, the issuance of directives to provide all possible assistance and to take all possible actions to tackle the situation,” the spokesperson said.

Meanwhile, the spokesperson said Pakistan remained deeply concerned over the deteriorating health of Hurriyat leader Muhammad Yasin Malik. He continues to suffer for his legitimate political resistance to India’s illegal occupation of IIOJK.

“We reject this judicial persecution and demand his immediate release.

“The inhuman incarceration of Yasin Malik, his sham trials under fabricated cases, the fallacious conviction and the malfeasant attempts at tarnishing the legitimate struggle of the Kashmiris for their right to self-determination only further confirm India’s known credentials as a serial violator of human rights and usurper of fundamental freedoms of the Kashmiri people.”

Pakistan called upon the Indian government to refrain from victimising the true representatives of the Kashmiri people by way of inhuman and illegal detentions and implications through sham trials in baseless and fictitious cases.

Pakistan once again urged the international community to take cognisance of India’s inhuman and illegal detention and treatment of Malik and of other political leaders, and to ensure that the Kashmiri people can exercise their right to self-determination as promised to them by the UN and the international community.

“More than 1.5 billion people of this region deserve to see the dawn of peace and prosperity - something that has been held hostage to India’s hostile agenda, hegemonistic designs and systematic violations of human rights in IIOJK.”

Express Tribune

 

[daytrader]

WB finalises Court of Arbitration to resolve Kishenganga, Ratle disputes
Pakistan has also finalised its two arbitrators for the forum

ISLAMABAD: In a belated development, the World Bank (WB) that brokered the 1960 Indus Waters Treaty has almost completed the formation of Court of Arbitration by appointing two new technical and legal members, a senior official at the Ministry of Law and Justice told The News.

Pakistan had long been seeking a Court of Arbitration to resolve the disputes over the designs of India’s 330 MW Kishenganga Hydropower Project and 850 MW Ratle Hydropower Project.

“Pakistan has also finalised its two arbitrators for the forum. And if India does not provide its two arbitrators, even then the CoA would be considered a complete forum with just 5 members,” a senior official of Pakistan said. According to the statement issued on October 17, the World Bank already appointed Sean Murphy as Chairman of the Court of Arbitration (CoA) and Michel Lino as Neutral Expert. Under the treaty, the Neutral Expert Forum consists of one man, and the Court of Arbitration comprises 7 members – one chairman, two arbitrators each from parties to the dispute (Pakistan and India), a technical member and a legal member. The official explained that the Chief Justice of the USA Supreme Court appoints the legal member and Rector Imperial College London appoints a technical member as part of the Court of Arbitration. The process has now been completed.

Pakistan wanted the WB to constitute the CoA to resolve the long-standing dispute in the designs of 330 MW Kishenganga Hydropower Project built by India on the tributary of River Jhelum River and the 850 MW Ratle Hydropower Project being built on River Chenab. The rivers Indus, Jhelum, and Chenab were assigned as Pakistan’s rivers after the signing of the Indus Waters Treaty in 1960. On the other hand, India wanted the World Bank to constitute the forum of one-man Neutral Expert.

Pakistan has raised three objections to the Kishanganga project’s design, saying the pondage of the project is 7.5 million cubic meters, which is excessive and it should be one million cubic meters. Pakistan also wants India to raise intake by up to 1-4 meters and also raise spillways up to nine meters. On Ratle Hydropower Plant, Islamabad had raised four objections. Pakistan wants India to maintain the freeboard at one meter whereas India wants to keep it at two meters. In addition, India wants to keep the pondage of 24 million cubic meters but Pakistan wants it to be restricted to eight million cubic meters. Pakistan also wants the project’s intake to be raised by 8.8 meters and its spillways should be raised by up to 20 meters.

Pakistan moved the World Bank in 2016 for the constitution of the Court of Arbitration to resolve the design disputes of these projects. However, the World Bank in December 2016 announced a Pause in the constitution of the Court of Arbitration (CoA) after the Indian objection. New Delhi instead wanted the issue to be settled by a Neutral Expert forum. Eventually, after five years, the World Bank lifted the ‘stay’ and announced to reinitiate the process to constitute the Court of Arbitration (CoA) as demanded by Pakistan.

The development follows a huge effort from Pakistan. According to a senior official, a high-powered delegation headed by Pakistan’s federal minister for law and justice, the Attorney General, the head of international dispute at AG office, the Indus Waters Commissioner, Executive Director of Pakistan in the World Bank and a representative of Pakistan Embassy in the US met top notches of the World Bank’s legal department in Washington, DC, on October 4, 2022.

During the meeting, Pakistan’s commissioner of Indus Waters Syed Mehr Ali Shah strongly advocated for parallel formation of the Court of Arbitration and Neutral Expert. Pakistan asked the World Bank to seek confirmation of the names of both panels. The World Bank argued, saying seeking confirmation was not allowed in the Indus Waters Treaty. In his response, Syed Mehr Ali Shah argued that the World Bank in Dec, 2016 announced and executed ‘the pause’ in the way of the constitution of CoA, which was also not part of the Indus Waters Treaty.

This argument made the WB legal team speechless. After the World Bank sought to reconfirm the arbitrators from both countries, Pakistan finalised the names of two arbitrators. The Pakistan delegation also insisted the World Bank ensure parallel completion of the Neutral Expert and Court of Arbitration. They also asked for assurances that the two forums would not come up with contradictory decisions.

After the meeting, the World Bank on October 17 announced the appointment of the chairman of CoA and Neutral Expert. Interestingly, the Neutral Expert was named by Pakistan.

The News PK

 

[Varun]

This is a fantastic post.

Modi and the current BJP government have done a lot right, but the Pakistan strategy is utterly woeful.

I wonder what I was thinking as of September 2016 to state that "they have done a lot right".

Even if they had, everything since Bimaru Bisht's victory in March 2017 has been a long downhill slide to underground.

 

[MP2011]

I wonder what I was thinking as of September 2016 to state that "they have done a lot right".

Even if they had, everything since Bimaru Bisht's victory in March 2017 has been a long downhill slide to underground.

lol. What about biggest corruption scandal ever, demonetisation unleashed by feku on Indians in November 2016?

 

[ZafarKhan2022]

An avaricious pariah nation who wants all the resources it can acquire wherever they might be and has been stealing Pakistan's water for decades.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Why is India still in this treaty? They should withdraw.

 

[daytrader]

‘India floodwater’ caused no harm
Senate told neighbouring country obliged under water treaty to forewarn before releasing floodwater

The Senate was told on Tuesday that India was obliged under an agreement to forewarn Pakistan before releasing a gush of floodwater in the Pakistani rivers and that no harm was caused by the water released by the neighbouring country during the recent monsoon season.

Speaking on the floor during the question hour, Adviser to Prime Minister on Kashmir and G-B Qamar Zaman Kaira informed the upper house that during the current monsoon season, a flood alert was reported in Indian media regarding the release of 200,000 cusecs flows in the river Ravi.

Alarmed by the reports, Pakistan Commissioner for Indus Waters (PCIW) had reached out to the Indian Commissioner for Indus Waters (ICIW) on July 31, 2022, to confirm the veracity of the news and asked for further information regarding the discharge so as to be able to take preventive measures in Pakistan.

In his response on August 1, the ICIW informed about a flow of 140,000 cusecs likely to be released in the Ravi river downstream of Ujh Barrage. Later, however, the flows observed and reported by Pakistani Punjab Irrigation Department in the river at Jassar were recorded at 33,850 cusecs.

...
https://tribune.com.pk/story/2396536/india-floodwater-caused-no-harm

 

[ex-q-zit]

"Pak Actions Have Forced...": India Issues Notice Over Indus Waters Treaty

India had, on January 25, issued a notice to Pakistan for modification of the Indus Waters Treaty (IWT) of September 1960 following Pakistani "intransigence" on its implementation, sources said today.

1) The notice was sent to Islamabad through respective Commissioners for Indus Waters, as per provisions of the treaty. The action was necessitated as Pakistan has refused to discuss and resolve the issue of India's Kishenganga and Ratle Hydro Electric Projects for the last five years, despite India's efforts, sources said.

2) India is seeking modifications in the treaty to make it easier for Pakistan to enter into intergovernmental negotiations, within 90 days, and rectify the 'material breach' of IWT. This process would also update IWT to incorporate the lessons learned over the last 62 years.

3) "India has always been a steadfast supporter and a responsible partner in implementing IWT in letter and spirit. However, Pakistan's actions have adversely impinged on the provisions of IWT and their implementation, and forced India to issue an appropriate notice for modification of IWT," sources said.

4) Pakistan had in 2015 sought a neutral expert to examine its technical objections to India's Kishenganga and Ratle Hydro Electric Projects. However, it withdrew the next year unilaterally and proposed that a Court of Arbitration adjudicate its objections. Two simultaneous processes are in contravention of the graded mechanism of dispute settlement, sources said, adding that India then made a separate request for the matter to be referred to a neutral expert.

5) "The initiation of two simultaneous processes on the same questions and the potential of their inconsistent or contradictory outcomes creates an unprecedented and legally untenable situation, which risks endangering IWT itself. The World Bank acknowledged this itself in 2016, and took a decision to "pause" the initiation of two parallel processes and request India and Pakistan to seek an amicable way out," sources said.

6) Government sources said that despite repeated efforts by India to find a mutually agreeable way forward, Pakistan refused to discuss the issue during the five meetings of the Permanent Indus Commission from 2017 to 2022. At Pakistan's continuing insistence, the World Bank has recently initiated actions on both the neutral expert and Court of Arbitration processes, they said.

7) India and Pakistan signed the treaty in 1960 after nine years of negotiations, with the World Bank being a signatory of the pact.

8) The treaty sets out a mechanism for cooperation and information exchange between the two countries regarding the use of waters of several rivers. It gives control over the waters of the three "eastern rivers" -- the Beas, Ravi, and Sutlej -- to India, while control over the waters of the three "western rivers" -- the Indus, Chenab, and Jhelum -- to Pakistan. India has about 20% of the total water carried by the Indus system, while Pakistan has 80%.

9) The treaty allows India to use the western river waters for limited irrigation use and unlimited non-consumptive use for such applications as power generation, navigation, floating of property, fish culture, etc. It lays down detailed regulations for India in building projects over the western rivers.

10) The Indus Waters Treaty is considered one of the most successful water-sharing endeavours in the world today.

NDTV

 

[daytrader]

Indus Waters Treaty can’t be modified unilaterally: Pakistan
The Attorney-General’s Office took notice of news stories appearing in the Indian press regarding India’s attempt at unilateral modification of the Indus Waters Treaty

The Attorney-General’s Office Friday took notice of news stories appearing in the Indian press regarding India’s attempt at unilateral modification of the Indus Waters Treaty.

In a statement issued here, the AG’s Office termed such stories “misleading,” adding that the Treaty cannot be unilaterally modified.

“This is an attempt to divert attention from the ongoing proceedings at the Permanent Court of Arbitration under the Indus Waters Treaty,” says the statement.

It stated that the first hearing in a dispute between Pakistan and India over the Indus Waters Treaty began on Friday at the Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Hague, the Netherlands.

...
https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/1035009-indus-waters-treaty-can-t-be-modified-unilaterally-pakistan

 

[cricketjoshila]

India should simply withdraw from this treaty citing Pakistan's intransigence. Pakistan doesn't respect any of the treaties on Kashmir. India is foolish to adhere to the IWT.

 

[Romali_rotti]

India should simply withdraw from this treaty citing Pakistan's intransigence. Pakistan doesn't respect any of the treaties on Kashmir. India is foolish to adhere to the IWT.

If India did that, that will cause serious damage to Pakistan, ppl will starve and the current state of Pakistan where they are just about finished, they may go for an all out war as they have nothing to lose.. India wouldn't want a war with Pakistan right now as India is becoming a major player in the international arena and war will set it back quite a lot..

 

[wasim-fan]

Miraculous that this treaty has somehow existed for this long.

 

[cricketjoshila]

If India did that, that will cause serious damage to Pakistan, ppl will starve and the current state of Pakistan where they are just about finished, they may go for an all out war as they have nothing to lose.. India wouldn't want a war with Pakistan right now as India is becoming a major player in the international arena and war will set it back quite a lot..

Well withdrawing from the IWT doesn't mean India will stop the water flow.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Why is India still in this treaty? They should withdraw.

Because they care too much about western opinion.

 

[MenInG]

India on Thursday questioned the World Bank's decision to appoint a Court of Arbitration and a neutral expert under two separate processes to resolve differences between New Delhi and Islamabad over the Kishenganga and Ratle hydroelectric projects in Jammu and Kashmir.
Last week, India issued a notice to Pakistan seeking a review and modification of the 62-year-old Indus Waters Treaty (IWT) for management of cross-border rivers following Islamabad's "intransigence" in handling disputes.

"I do not think they (World Bank) are in a position to interpret the treaty for us. It is a treaty between our two countries and our assessment of the treaty is that there is a provision of graded approach," External Affairs Ministry Spokesperson Arindam Bagchi said.

India took the significant step of sending the notice to Pakistan conveying its intent to amend the treaty months after the World Bank announced appointing a neutral expert and a chair of Court of Arbitration to resolve the differences over the Kishenganga and Ratle hydroelectric projects.

New Delhi has been particularly disappointed over the appointment of the Court of Arbitration.

"India's Indus Water Commissioner issued a notice on January 25 for the modification of the Indus Waters Treaty of 1960 to his Pakistani counterpart," Mr Bagchi said at a media briefing while replying to a question on the matter.

"This notice was issued with the intent to provide an opportunity to Pakistan to enter into government-to-government negotiations to rectify ongoing material breach of the treaty," he said.

Mr Bagchi said India called upon Pakistan to notify a suitable date for the commencement of inter-state bilateral negotiations under article 12(III) of the treaty within 90 days.

"I am not aware of a response from Pakistan as yet. I am not aware of any response or comment by the World Bank," he said.

The World Bank's role is procedural and it appoints neutral experts or the chair of the court of arbitration in case of differences between India and Pakistan on issues relating to cross-border rivers.

"I do not think they (World Bank) are in a position to interpret the treaty for us. It is a treaty between our two countries and our assessment of the treaty is that there is a provision of graded approach," Mr Bagchi said.

New Delhi considers the start of the two concurrent processes to resolve the dispute a violation of the provision of the graded mechanism prescribed in the pact and wondered what will happen if the mechanisms come out with contradictory judgements.

"The world bank itself, around five-six years ago, acknowledged the problem of having two parallel processes. Our interpretation and assessment is that this is not in consonance with the provisions of the treaty and hence we have been talking about a graded approach," Mr Bagchi said.

The spokesperson said India's position on the matter has not changed at all.

"I do not know whether the World Bank has changed its position on it," he said.

India has not cooperated with the Court of Arbitration.

Under the pact, any differences need to be resolved under a three-stage approach. However, in the cases of Kishenganga and Ratle hydroelectric projects, the World Bank started two concurrent dispute redressal processes at the insistence of Pakistan that India felt was a breach of the IWT, according to sources.

NDTV

 

[daytrader]

Pakistan responds to Indian notice on Indus Treaty
Pakistan says it is ready to listen to New Delhi’s concerns about the prevalent treaty

In a new development, Pakistan has sent its response to India on a notice seeking modifications in the Indus Waters Treaty (IWT) 1960.

India earlier issued a notice to Pakistan on January 25, seeking modifications in the treaty two days before the hearing of the Court of Arbitration in The Hague that took place on January 27-28. India had extended the notice by invoking Article 12 of the treaty.

According to well-placed sources in the Attorney General’s Office, Pakistan has sent its response in calculated and careful words, saying it was ready to listen to New Delhi’s concerns about the prevalent treaty at the level of the Permanent Commission of Indus Waters (PCIW).

The officials said Pakistan was ready to listen to Indian concerns on the treaty at the level of the Permanent Commission of Indus Waters. They said Pakistan was a lower riparian country while India is upper riparian and the lower riparian country couldn’t flout the Indus Water Treaty’s provisions or commit any material breach. They said the decision about the parleys on changes to the treaty will be taken once Pakistan heard India’s concerns at the PCIW level. However, they said under Article 12 of the treaty, the existing treaty will continue to reign unless the parties to the dispute — Pakistan and India — bilaterally introduced changes to the pact. The sanctity of the existing Indus Waters Treaty cannot be damaged between the two nuclear countries and the whole world cannot afford it. Pakistan did not commit any material violation of IWT, which is why the Indian notice to introduce changes to IWT is uncalled for.

...
https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/1057496-pakistan-responds-to-indian-notice-on-indus-treaty

 

[MenInG]

Lawmakers in the upper house of the parliament have urged the government to effectively respond to the Indian attempt to change the Indus Waters Treaty, a deal brokered by the World Bank between the two rival countries to share the water available in the Indus River and its tributaries.

A number of senators--including Leader of Opposition Senator Shahzad Waseem, Senator Mushahid Hussain Sayed and Senator Kamran Murtaza--on Friday called attention to a notice send to Pakistan via the Permanent Indus Commission (PIC), a bilateral commission consisting of officials from India and Pakistan.

India on January 25 sent the notice to Pakistan seeking renegotiation of the treaty, which governs water-sharing for six rivers – the Indus, Chenab, Jhelum, Beas, Ravi and Sutlej.

Taking the floor, Mushahid Hussain Sayed said Pakistan needs internal unity in order to effectively respond to India. He lamented that the army and judiciary are being targeted and political stakeholders are levelling serious allegations against each other.

Referring to the ongoing political turmoil, he said the coalition government will have to sit down across the table with the Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf (PTI) in order to resolve the crisis.

"When we can talk to the Taliban and [Indian Prime Minister Narendra] Modi then why can't we talk to the PTI?"

The senator, who belongs to the ruling Pakistan Muslim League-Nawaz (PML-N), said the government will have to comply with the Constitution and hold elections within the stipulated time.

Senator Kamran Murtaza said the nation will have to first resolve its internal dispute over water sharing and then give a strong message to India.

"We need to protect our water; otherwise we will lose this precious resource," he said.

Murtaza said India violated the IWT earlier and built controversial dams but Pakistan could do nothing except lodging protests.

He said Pakistani officials have in the past shown criminal negligence at various international forums and damaged the interests of the country with regard to its water resources.

"We need to give a strong response to this move by India to renegotiate the IWT," he added.

Responding to the call attention notice on behalf of the minister for water resources, Federal Minister for Climate Change Senator Sherry Rehman informed the house about the contents of the Indian notice.

She said India has accused Pakistan of violating the agreement and committing material breaches while making vague demands for modifying the IWT.

"It seems that the Indian government has raised the issue in an aggressive manner in order to garner public support ahead of the Indian general election," she said.

"Responding to the letter in an aggressive manner will not be a proper strategy as the Modi government apparently wants to provoke Pakistan." She assured the Senate that the government is fully cognizant of the matter and is dealing with it on its merits.

"According to Article XII (4) of the IWT, the provisions of this treaty shall continue to remain in force until terminated by a duly ratified treaty concluded for that purpose between the two governments.

"The WT is the only ratified treaty between Pakistan and India and has not been replaced by a duly ratified treaty concluded between the two governments; therefore, the IWT is the instrument in force and will continue to be in force."

She said it is imperative for India to ensure implementation of the treaty in its true letter and spirit. Rehman said in the past, Pakistan raised objections to the design of Baglihar Dam and challenged legality of diversion of the River Kishanganga into Wullar.

"Presently, Pakistan has disputed India’s Kishenganga and Ratle hydroelectric plants and moved the Court of Arbitration to interpret various provisions of the treaty for settlement of systemic issues concerning its interpretation and application."

The minister said that the PIC as defined in the treaty is the appropriate forum to raise and discuss any concerns. Pakistan is, therefore, happy to engage on any outstanding issue regarding the treaty.

"The government has made deliberations with all relevant stakeholders, and a response was sent to India on April 1, 2023, seeking clarification from the Indian side about the contents of their letter. The response has been made while considering the national interests of the country." Rehman said Pakistan is not panicking and is vigilant about its water resources.

"The IWT has survived all kinds of tensions between the two countries and has played a vital role in managing the water resources between India and Pakistan. Pakistan is committed to the treaty and expects India to comply with it," she added.

Express Tribune