Ravichandran Ashwin v Ravindra Jadeja : Who is the better bowler?

[Statsman]

Considering all formats separately.

For me Jaḍeja trumps Ashwin in ODIs and T20s and is only marginally behind in tests.

 

[Saurav]

Ashwin

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Warne

Daylight

Ajmal the Chucker

Daylight

Ashwin.

 

[joly]

Ashwin, but Jadeja is not far behind

 

[Abdul]

Warne

Daylight

Ajmal the Chucker

Daylight

Ashwin.

It's Ashwin v Jadeja.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Jaddu better in pattas in tests.

As for T20s, I bet you extrapolated Jaddu's ODI performances to T20s.

 

[Sidilicious]

Jaddu better in pattas in tests.

As for T20s, I bet you extrapolated Jaddu's ODI performances to T20s.

Fair point, but whats your technical analysis on the reason.

If the amount of turn is less on a patta, shouldn't the amount of drift and dip he gets make up for the lack of turn?

 

[Aman]

Jaddu better in pattas in tests.

As for T20s, I bet you extrapolated Jaddu's ODI performances to T20s.

What are you going to get away from home?

Are you going to play 2 spinners in Aus, SA, NZ and England?

 

[Zak_Fan]

Ashwin is better, but Jadeja isn't far behind. Probably the second best in the world.

 

[Aman]

Ashwin is better, but Jadeja isn't far behind. Probably the second best in the world.

When did Jadeja win India a Test in England?

 

[Sidilicious]

What are you going to get away from home?

Are you going to play 2 spinners in Aus, SA, NZ and England?

Probably. Its going to be between Jaddu and Pandya on flattish pitches abroad.

On flat pitches abroad, we will play 5 bowlers - 3 pacers + Ashwin + Jadeja/Pandya.

If Pandya improves his batting and bowling, Pandya will trump Jadeja abroad. But given their current skill levels, Jadeja will be the 5th bowler.

 

[Aman]

Probably. Its going to be between Jaddu and Pandya on flattish pitches abroad.

On flat pitches abroad, we will play 5 bowlers - 3 pacers + Ashwin + Jadeja/Pandya.

If Pandya improves his batting and bowling, Pandya will trump Jadeja abroad. But given their current skill levels, Jadeja will be the 5th bowler.

Ashwin is a passenger abroad, he's a better batsmen than he is a bowler in those conditions.

 

[MRSN]

I never taken Ashwin as a clean bowler. I still strongly believe he is chucking on his way to 250 wickets just like Saeed Ajmal did.

 

[MRSN]

I rate Jadeja at least he doesn't throw. Anyone is better than who bowls illegally.

 

[Zak_Fan]

I never taken Ashwin as a clean bowler. I still strongly believe he is chucking on his way to 250 wickets just like Saeed Ajmal did.

I know you have a chucker to defend, but comments like this only show how bitter you are.

 

[Varun]

I disliked Jadeja when he first entered the team but he has massively grown on me in the years since.

 

[Sidilicious]

Ashwin is a passenger abroad, he's a better batsmen than he is a bowler in those conditions.

Thats the old Ashwin. Given his improvement in the last couple of years its difficult to say whether he will bowl as he did in the last round of tours.

But, yeah, he wont run through sides. And also needs to improve on such flat pitches. I am not sure how or what he needs to improve.

Also, its not as bad as it looks. In the final test against England, he didnt pick any wickets, but was the best spinner by far.

 

[Abdul]

I disliked Jadeja when he first entered the team but he has massively grown on me in the years since.

Why was he given the 'Sir' nickname in the start? I never understood.

 

[Varun]

Why was he given the 'Sir' nickname in the start? I never understood.

He was the butt of all jokes up front, and then the tag came along as people warmed up to him.

 

[Zak_Fan]

When did Jadeja win India a Test in England?

Does he have to? His ability to be wicket-taking while being frugal even on flatter decks is something very rare today.

 

[Aman]

Does he have to? His ability to be wicket-taking while being frugal even on flatter decks is something very rare today.

Yasir has won Pakistan plenty of matches - home and away.

Two bad series doesn't take those accomplishments away.

 

[Saurav]

Thats the old Ashwin. Given his improvement in the last couple of years its difficult to say whether he will bowl as he did in the last round of tours.

But, yeah, he wont run through sides. And also needs to improve on such flat pitches. I am not sure how or what he needs to improve.

Also, its not as bad as it looks. In the final test against England, he didnt pick any wickets, but was the best spinner by far.

How was he best spinner in Chennai when he didnt pick up wickets?I'd rather have one giving me wickets,in that instance Jadeja

 

[Zak_Fan]

Yasir has won Pakistan plenty of matches - home and away.

Two bad series doesn't take those accomplishments away.

This is true. But winning a couple of matches doesn't erase the fact that you have been beyond rubbish in many more.

Take Ishant example, as a pacer, he has single-handedly won India Tests in WI, England and Sri Lanka. No other Asian pacer in past many years comes close to this kind of achievement, so does this make him better than everyone else?

 

[Sidilicious]

How was he best spinner in Chennai when he didnt pick up wickets?I'd rather have one giving me wickets,in that instance Jadeja

He created more chances and created pressure which allowed Jadeja to take wickets. You have to had seen him bowl to see how amazing Ash bowled in the final innings.

 

[Aman]

This is true. But winning a couple of matches doesn't erase the fact that you have been beyond rubbish in many more.

Take Ishant example, as a pacer, he has single-handedly won India Tests in WI, England and Sri Lanka. No other Asian pacer in past many years comes close to this kind of achievement, so does this make him better than everyone else?

Are you really going to compare Yasir Shah to Ishant?

For one, Yasir actually helped Pakistan draw a series in England.

 

[Sidilicious]

This is true. But winning a couple of matches doesn't erase the fact that you have been beyond rubbish in many more.

Take Ishant example, as a pacer, he has single-handedly won India Tests in WI, England and Sri Lanka. No other Asian pacer in past many years comes close to this kind of achievement, so does this make him better than everyone else?

hehe. Thats a good analogy.

But Yasir has won his team two tests. If Ash can help India draw a series in Eng/Sa/Aus with his bowling he will be way better than Yasir.

I am talking about only bowling here, and not All round abilities.

 

[Saurav]

He created more chances and created pressure which allowed Jadeja to take wickets. You have to had seen him bowl to see how amazing Ash bowled in the final innings.

So Ashwin created chances and pressure and that was the only reason Jadeja took 10 in the match and Ashwin himself took 1?

As I said,I'll take one actually getting the numbers.If difference was small I could understand but 10 to 1

 

[Sidilicious]

So Ashwin created chances and pressure and that was the only reason Jadeja took 10 in the match and Ashwin himself took 1?

As I said,I'll take one actually getting the numbers.If difference was small I could understand but 10 to 1

Did you see Ash bowl?

Given your lack of understanding of the sport its easy to see how you feel this way.

 

[Zak_Fan]

Are you really going to compare Yasir Shah to Ishant?

For one, Yasir actually helped Pakistan draw a series in England.

Of course not, I am only drew a parallel because you cannot simply laud a bowler for matches won while ignoring other matches where he was a liability, losing you matches. Yasir so far has played only 8 matches outside Asia. 4 of them in NZ and Aus, he averaged almost 100 there with a pathetic economy rate. Other 4 were in England, there again, he was rubbish in 2.

So overall, outside Asia, he failed miserably 6/8 times. Why is that not a consideration in your judgement?

 

[Saurav]

Did you see Ash bowl?

Given your lack of understanding of the sport its easy to see how you feel this way.

I did watch most of the game.But sure thing buddy,I am happy being ignorant to think its Jadeja who created morechances since he actually got them .Never said Ashwin bowled badly anyway

btw was Kohli the best batsman even though Nair got 300 in that match?

 

[Abdul]

Let's stick to the topic of this thread which is Ashwin v Jadeja, not Ashwin & Jadeja v Yasir.

 

[Sidilicious]

I did watch most of the game.But sure thing buddy,I am happy being ignorant to think its Jadeja who created morechances since he actually got them .Never said Ashwin bowled badly anyway

btw was Kohli the best batsman even though Nair got 300 in that match?

When did I say Jadeja bowled poorly. I said Ash bowled better than Jaddu in the 2nd innings. 1st innings Ash wasn't that good.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

What are you going to get away from home?

Are you going to play 2 spinners in Aus, SA, NZ and England?

Ideally 3 pacers and 2 spinners unless the track really demands just 4 bowlers in which case 3 pacers and 1 spinner. I don't see a point in playing 4 pacers overseas along with a spinner.

3 pacers to attack in first innings.
2 spinners to attack in 2nd innings.

Fair point, but whats your technical analysis on the reason.

If the amount of turn is less on a patta, shouldn't the amount of drift and dip he gets make up for the lack of turn?

I think Jaddu puts more revs on the ball which is why he gets a few balls to turn a bit in pattas. Once he has done that, he can now threaten both edges of the bat and play the slow waiting game of bowling quick deliveries in good length areas. Majority won't turn, some will turn and put doubts in batsmen's mind and he will get wickets that way.

That's his way of operation. Low economy, tight bowling, getting a few turn a bit even on flatties.

Ashwin on the other hand doesn't get as much turn from flatties. He gets turn out of some deliveries but the frequency is much lower than Jaddu. Maybe its because of the revs or the high arm action (I think someone like Chief Destroyer can explain). So what happens is he is unable to consistently threaten both edges of the bat.

In such a case, dip won't help you that much. You really need drift to help in such situations and I don't think Ash got many deliveries to drift this game (drift that depends on wind conditions too).

As for this game, Ashwin didn't bowl badly at all. In fact, he bowled really well. In some patches, he was at his accurate best.

YET he wasn't that threatening which I am afraid is a bad sign.

If you copy this performance and paste it in a normal turner, I won't be surprised if the output is a 5fer.

Another issue that went AGAINST Ashwin was that he got good bounce. Take the Shakib lbw dismissal which was reviewed. Ashwin got that one to turn and beat the bat and strike the pad. But problem was he got the ball to bounce a lot more which denied him a wicket. The same delivery by Jaddu or Yasir or Herath may have very well fetched them a wicket and in these pitches a wicket here and there makes a lot of difference to your end tally.

Now of course, I am not saying bounce is bad for Ash...there are many instances where it would help him but when it doesn't turn and the pitch is slow enough to play off the backfoot, bounce becomes a hindrance for you.

So what Ashwin needs to do is this:

Number 1 - GET more sidespin on his deliveries.

He doesn't need to turn every delivery. If you turn the odd delivery to put doubts in batsmen's mind, you can threaten both edges of the bat.

Now this is an issue that is a BIGGIE. He can't practice his way out of it. He has to figure out a way. If I am honest, its a worrying sign. Of course, even without that, he would still make it work outside Asia but he would have a tough time when the pitch goes completely flat. Ash needs a bit of turn t make it work. If he doesn't get that, the results can be iffy.

Number 2 - Develop his carrom delivery and make it more accurate.

Now purists would say this is a bad move but from what I have seen, his carroms seem to turn a bit more than offies in pattas (unless the offie is real slow). If he lands them right, he can put a bit of doubt in batsmen's and have something to work with.

Number 3 - Explore more options

People say Shakib threw his wicket away to Ashwin this game. What they didn't see was that in the previous overs, Ashwin was purposely delivering the balls wide outside off and getting Shakib to drive. If he messed up, he could have got out there but he played them really well and was looking to dominate. Then next over, Ash bowled one on the stumps, keeping the mid on up and Shakib went for it and miscued that cos this time he went against the turn. Purely as a delivery it was ok but its the execution which really stood out and even though cricinfo commentary didn't talk about it, the TV commies were talking about that in depth.

This was good but Ashwin doesn't do this more often. If you noticed, when Ashwin tried to go wide and bowl it wide outside off to Mehdi, he got turn off the rough. He should have kept fielders in the deep and attacked Mehdi with it for more time. But fielders were inside the circle, Mehdi hit a couple of boundaries (good shots) and the plan was off. I thought he should have carried for more long. Ashwin has so many options (can bowl close to stumps, wide of stumps, round arm) but doesn't explore them as much as he could when nothing is happening. This is an area where he could improve. This is different from experimentation wherein he used to try everything in the initial stages itself.

---

So all in all, he has his work cut out on such pitches. If only he could get a bit more side spin, all his problems will vanish away. If he can't, then he has to figure out other ways to make things happen.

In a way, these garbage pitches are a blessing in disguise for him (torture for us viewers though). If he seriously introspects, maybe he will glean lessons from these experiences and work on his weaker aspects. If he dismisses them as just pattas (which they really are) and convinces himself that offies generally struggle in such tracks (which is true), then he will not be as good as he wants to be.

 

[jnaveen1980]

On unhelpful surfaces Jaddu edges Ash. otherwise Ash all the way.

 

[Sidilicious]

Ideally 3 pacers and 2 spinners unless the track really demands just 4 bowlers in which case 3 pacers and 1 spinner. I don't see a point in playing 4 pacers overseas along with a spinner.

3 pacers to attack in first innings.
2 spinners to attack in 2nd innings.



I think Jaddu puts more revs on the ball which is why he gets a few balls to turn a bit in pattas. Once he has done that, he can now threaten both edges of the bat and play the slow waiting game of bowling quick deliveries in good length areas. Majority won't turn, some will turn and put doubts in batsmen's mind and he will get wickets that way.

That's his way of operation. Low economy, tight bowling, getting a few turn a bit even on flatties.

Ashwin on the other hand doesn't get as much turn from flatties. He gets turn out of some deliveries but the frequency is much lower than Jaddu. Maybe its because of the revs or the high arm action (I think someone like Chief Destroyer can explain). So what happens is he is unable to consistently threaten both edges of the bat.

In such a case, dip won't help you that much. You really need drift to help in such situations and I don't think Ash got many deliveries to drift this game (drift that depends on wind conditions too).

As for this game, Ashwin didn't bowl badly at all. In fact, he bowled really well. In some patches, he was at his accurate best.

YET he wasn't that threatening which I am afraid is a bad sign.

If you copy this performance and paste it in a normal turner, I won't be surprised if the output is a 5fer.

Another issue that went AGAINST Ashwin was that he got good bounce. Take the Shakib lbw dismissal which was reviewed. Ashwin got that one to turn and beat the bat and strike the pad. But problem was he got the ball to bounce a lot more which denied him a wicket. The same delivery by Jaddu or Yasir or Herath may have very well fetched them a wicket and in these pitches a wicket here and there makes a lot of difference to your end tally.

Now of course, I am not saying bounce is bad for Ash...there are many instances where it would help him but when it doesn't turn and the pitch is slow enough to play off the backfoot, bounce becomes a hindrance for you.

So what Ashwin needs to do is this:

Number 1 - GET more sidespin on his deliveries.

He doesn't need to turn every delivery. If you turn the odd delivery to put doubts in batsmen's mind, you can threaten both edges of the bat.

Now this is an issue that is a BIGGIE. He can't practice his way out of it. He has to figure out a way. If I am honest, its a worrying sign. Of course, even without that, he would still make it work outside Asia but he would have a tough time when the pitch goes completely flat. Ash needs a bit of turn t make it work. If he doesn't get that, the results can be iffy.

Number 2 - Develop his carrom delivery and make it more accurate.

Now purists would say this is a bad move but from what I have seen, his carroms seem to turn a bit more than offies in pattas (unless the offie is real slow). If he lands them right, he can put a bit of doubt in batsmen's and have something to work with.

Number 3 - Explore more options

People say Shakib threw his wicket away to Ashwin this game. What they didn't see was that in the previous overs, Ashwin was purposely delivering the balls wide outside off and getting Shakib to drive. If he messed up, he could have got out there but he played them really well and was looking to dominate. Then next over, Ash bowled one on the stumps, keeping the mid on up and Shakib went for it and miscued that cos this time he went against the turn. Purely as a delivery it was ok but its the execution which really stood out and even though cricinfo commentary didn't talk about it, the TV commies were talking about that in depth.

This was good but Ashwin doesn't do this more often. If you noticed, when Ashwin tried to go wide and bowl it wide outside off to Mehdi, he got turn off the rough. He should have kept fielders in the deep and attacked Mehdi with it for more time. But fielders were inside the circle, Mehdi hit a couple of boundaries (good shots) and the plan was off. I thought he should have carried for more long. Ashwin has so many options (can bowl close to stumps, wide of stumps, round arm) but doesn't explore them as much as he could when nothing is happening. This is an area where he could improve. This is different from experimentation wherein he used to try everything in the initial stages itself.

---

So all in all, he has his work cut out on such pitches. If only he could get a bit more side spin, all his problems will vanish away. If he can't, then he has to figure out other ways to make things happen.

In a way, these garbage pitches are a blessing in disguise for him (torture for us viewers though). If he seriously introspects, maybe he will glean lessons from these experiences and work on his weaker aspects. If he dismisses them as just pattas (which they really are) and convinces himself that offies generally struggle in such tracks (which is true), then he will not be as good as he wants to be.

Thanks. thats a great analysis, as expected.

He does have a great brain and hunger to do well. Hope that helps him iron out these flaws.

 

[saeed5646]

In test format

Jadeja is like hazlewood who will be very good 8 out of ten time in asia

while ashwin is like starc hot and cold in patches but will win matches single handedly on his day