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Ravindra Jadeja - Second fastest to get 300 wickets and 3000 runs in Test cricket

One my favourite ind players or cricket players for that matter. Smart, professional and always contributing to the team’s cause.
A complete cricketer with a thinking mind.
I am sure someone would have mentioned his three triple hundreds in domestic. His career is outstanding because he won u19, is a ranji legend, performed exceptionally well for ind in 3 formats in every aspect for a good 12-15 years.
 
Obaidd said:
One my favourite ind players or cricket players for that matter. Smart, professional and always contributing to the team’s cause.
A complete cricketer with a thinking mind.
I am sure someone would have mentioned his three triple hundreds in domestic. His career is outstanding because he won u19, is a ranji legend, performed exceptionally well for ind in 3 formats in every aspect for a good 12-15 years.
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He is very good but he played two U-19, ideally one should play just one, he lost the first U-19 when Anwar banana swung us out of the tournament in the final.
 
JaDed said:
He is very good but he played two U-19, ideally one should play just one, he lost the first U-19 when Anwar banana swung us out of the tournament in the final.
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Yeah, new rule now. Only one u-19 wc per player.
 
hassan918 said:
Ravindra Jadeja is now joint-second on the list for the most player of the match awards for India in Tests.
  1. Sachin Tendulkar - 14
  2. Ravindra Jadeja - 11
  3. Rahul Dravid - 11
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The impact of Jadeja becomes obvious when you consider the no of tests they played in

Tendulkar- 200
Dravid - 164

Jadeja - just 86!
 
Jadeja has scored more runs taken more wickets than anyone playing this test series (both teams included) How many times has that hapoened before in history?
 
RyanRyan10 said:
I also want that but which of the 3 targets I mentioned, you think he can achieve?
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He will achieve 100 tests first, after that if he continues then 5000 runs and finally 400 wickets. He should achieve it in 105 tests.
 
A little strange comment from Ajit Agarkar, he is very much in World Cup plan but can’t pick him for ODI squad to tour Australia?
 
light said:
You want my honest opinion, out of all the Indian players, Jedeja is my least favorite so I donno man, I was never able to like this guy so my answer is always biased, LOL. It has alot to do with initially he was a good for nothing player, only his fielding was a plus point. Very slowly he was able to improve his skills.

IMO Shakib is a much better player with both bat/ball/skills than Jadu and if Shakib was Indian, Jadeja would not find a place in the indian team. There is a podcast by Moeen Ali and Adil Rashid where they also conveyed this same thing. However, I think if Jadeja played for a team like Bangladesh, he would probably have similar stats like Shakib - because they would rely alot on him compared to team India, whereas in team India, we have so many match winners. Jadeja is just one guy among great players.

You can rely on Shakib (prime form - not now) to win you games with both Bat/Ball which he did often when BD won. With Jadeja, this is not a thing. He is a contributer in a larger pool. Shakib on the other hand is the whole god damn contribution most of the time. That itself matters alot.
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Shakib is inferior bowler and fielder compared to Jadeja. Shakib batted in top 5/6 and was a premier player in his mediocre team allowing him opportunities to bat up the order and bowl at his will. He was also captain for a considerable amount of time and didn’t have any other mayor bowler with whom he had to share his wickets. Jadeja was one of many superstars on the team and throughout his career played second fiddle to Ashwin on spin friendly pitches and to Bumrah and others in seam friendly ones. Moreover he has played higher percentage of his matches against top teams unlike Shakib who played minimally with England, Australia and India/ SA (not due to his mistake). Even with that Jadeja has superior bowling stats whereas Shakib is mediocre and now even has better batting stats. Skill and performance wise Jadeja is far superior to Shakib.
 
light said:
You want my honest opinion, out of all the Indian players, Jedeja is my least favorite so I donno man, I was never able to like this guy so my answer is always biased, LOL. It has alot to do with initially he was a good for nothing player, only his fielding was a plus point. Very slowly he was able to improve his skills.
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maybe you got influenced by sir jadeja memes or something cuz he was always pretty good. The criticism he got was unjustified imo. What did he do wrong exactly?
 
Jadeja should just stick to test cricket now... I think India has better players for white ball cricket than Jadeja atm..
 
Ab Fan said:
A little strange comment from Ajit Agarkar, he is very much in World Cup plan but can’t pick him for ODI squad to tour Australia?
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Horses for courses. Jadeja has been utterly poor in Aus as a bowler. And his batting is surplus in ODI format. He did do well last time with the bat though.
 
SportsWarrior said:
Shakib is inferior bowler and fielder compared to Jadeja. Shakib batted in top 5/6 and was a premier player in his mediocre team allowing him opportunities to bat up the order and bowl at his will. He was also captain for a considerable amount of time and didn’t have any other mayor bowler with whom he had to share his wickets. Jadeja was one of many superstars on the team and throughout his career played second fiddle to Ashwin on spin friendly pitches and to Bumrah and others in seam friendly ones. Moreover he has played higher percentage of his matches against top teams unlike Shakib who played minimally with England, Australia and India/ SA (not due to his mistake). Even with that Jadeja has superior bowling stats whereas Shakib is mediocre and now even has better batting stats. Skill and performance wise Jadeja is far superior to Shakib.
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Good points.

Had Jadeja consistently batted at 5 or 6, he would have been averaging in early to mid 40s, probably even higher.

Jadeja averages a scarcely believable 57 batting at no.6 with 10 50+ scores out of 28 innings. He has the highest avg of any Indian no.6 in test history (minimum 500 runs) too.

Imagine what a resource was being wasted by India while trying to have "speshulist" batters at no.6 who were utterly mediocre (especially Rahane).
 
I don't believe for a second that Axar is a better replacement in ODIs. Axar's batting average is 22 in ODIs and bowling wise, he's pretty much the same in terms of ER and wickets.

In fact, Jadeja has 2 5fers in ODIs and quite a few 4fers. Even at 36/37, he's a better fielder than Axar. I have no idea what Gambhir sees in Axar to give him preferential treatment.
 
Do you agree with Ravi Shastri? This is what he said about Jadeja.

"I have seen Kallis, I've also seen Stokes, but honestly nobody is as good as Ravindra Jadeja".
 
hassan918 said:
Do you agree with Ravi Shastri? This is what he said about Jadeja.

"I have seen Kallis, I've also seen Stokes, but honestly nobody is as good as Ravindra Jadeja".
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Jadeja is better than Stokes, for sure.

Kallis is not in the same category as Jadeja, as in, he was a batting all rounder. Is he more valuable than Jadeja? Definitely, on pitches in SENA.

Jadeja beats Kallis in the subcontinent.
 
If he ends up with an avg of 40 no one will be able to deny his ATG stature.

I do think he is already an ATG but opinion amongst posters are divided.
 
JaDed said:
He is very good but he played two U-19, ideally one should play just one, he lost the first U-19 when Anwar banana swung us out of the tournament in the final.
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I think that rule came in around 2018 or so with Rahul Dravid at the helm. A good rule!
 
He surely is the best fielder of any all rounder lists of any era that one can come up with :faf .

Love the Swordsman celebration when he gets 50 or 100!
 
bunda_bindaas said:
I don't believe for a second that Axar is a better replacement in ODIs. Axar's batting average is 22 in ODIs and bowling wise, he's pretty much the same in terms of ER and wickets.

In fact, Jadeja has 2 5fers in ODIs and quite a few 4fers. Even at 36/37, he's a better fielder than Axar. I have no idea what Gambhir sees in Axar to give him preferential treatment.
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Axar is perceived to be the more aggressive of the 2. Jadeja usually takes his time to get going.
 
bunda_bindaas said:
Jadeja is better than Stokes, for sure.

Kallis is not in the same category as Jadeja, as in, he was a batting all rounder. Is he more valuable than Jadeja? Definitely, on pitches in SENA.

Jadeja beats Kallis in the subcontinent.
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Not a fair comparison. Kallis was someone who got 200+ wickets because he played a truckload of teat matches. He averaged just 1.75 wickets per test which means SA was never really anywhere near reliant on him as a bowler.

But India is hugely reliant on Jaddu the batter as well as the bowler.
 
Sir Alex said:
Good points.

Had Jadeja consistently batted at 5 or 6, he would have been averaging in early to mid 40s, probably even higher.

Jadeja averages a scarcely believable 57 batting at no.6 with 10 50+ scores out of 28 innings. He has the highest avg of any Indian no.6 in test history (minimum 500 runs) too.

Imagine what a resource was being wasted by India while trying to have "speshulist" batters at no.6 who were utterly mediocre (especially Rahane).
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Yeah, being a spinner he could have batted at 5 for India. He has all the ingredients to be a successful player at 5. He has decent technique against both spin and seam, can accelerate if the team is doing well and can defend well when they are in trouble. He is left handed providing variety in the middle order and is very fit allowing him to bat longer. If Pant can succeed at 5 after keeping for 90+ overs, Jadeja can too.

His bowling also devolved into more defensive one due to lot of attacking bowlers like Ashwin, Bumrah, Kuldeep etc. in his youth he used to be much more attacking although had less variety.

Shakib is none of these. He is a decent serviceable player. His bowling average is very mediocre considering he played a large portion of his career with n spin friendly pitches with he being the team’s first choice spinner. His batting average is decent again due to opportunities in top order and lack of exposure against truly great bowling in testing conditions. Opposition and conditions are not in his control but record is still mediocre and cannot be counted among top players.

There isn’t a single team, apart from BD all time XI, where Shakib gets in and Jadeja doesn’t. By the end of his career he will be the only choice if any world XI ever needs a left arm spinner just like how Wasim will be the only left arm seamer that will make into world XI if they need one
 
With Jadeja , most of his runs have been under clutch , tough conditions. This century too came when India were in a spot of bother with 4 down for 200 something. No soft runs for him.

The best thing about Jadeja is the assured feeling he provides at the crease. There is a certain calm and certainty.
 
Ab Fan said:
Axar is a better white ball player without any doubt. Jadeja has just never clicked in t20s especially.
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That may be true for T20Is, it's definitely not true for ODIs. Axar has a marginally better strike rate (91 vs 85). His batting average is a mere 22 compared to Jadeja's 32.6

As far as bowling is concerned, Jadeja has 7 4fers and 2 5fers in ODIs while Axar has none.

Even in T20Is, Jadeja has a better ER (bowling) and a better batting average, although worse SR in both batting and bowling.

It's a complete myth that Axar is a far better white ball player compared to Jadeja.
 
Ab Fan said:
Kumble is debatable. Probably Sehwag level.

Ashwin is also same but his batting was very useful.
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Kumble is, without a doubt, India's biggest match winner in Test cricket, to date.

The second name would be Ravi Ashwin's.

They are both Indian ATGs. In fact, they are both bigger than Tendulkar, as far as Test cricket is concerned.
 
bunda_bindaas said:
Kumble is, without a doubt, India's biggest match winner in Test cricket, to date.

The second name would be Ravi Ashwin's.

They are both Indian ATGs. In fact, they are both bigger than Tendulkar, as far as Test cricket is concerned.
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What did Kumble do to be considered India’s biggest match winner?

Ashwin has most player of series and Jadeja has most player of match. They both have gone past him comfortably.
 
Ab Fan said:
A little strange comment from Ajit Agarkar, he is very much in World Cup plan but can’t pick him for ODI squad to tour Australia?
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Don't think he is first choice anymore in ODI team.
But there is always chance on injury so he will be first backup to Axar. Atleast with Jadeja there is no need to worry about fitness
 
Ab Fan said:
What did Kumble do to be considered India’s biggest match winner?

Ashwin has most player of series and Jadeja has most player of match. They both have gone past him comfortably
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Those who have seen Kumble bowl know his value. He was most prized asset and lead strike bowler for 4 test captains of India.

Even in his dotage at 38 yrs, Kumble took 5 wkts on MCG flat deck on day 1 against still great Aus top order.

Cricket is not all numbers and averages. One must see beyond to really assess.
 
pratiktc said:
Those who have seen Kumble bowl know his value. He was most prized asset and lead strike bowler for 4 test captains of India.

Even in his dotage at 38 yrs, Kumble took 5 wkts on MCG flat deck on day 1 against still great Aus top order.

Cricket is not all numbers and averages. One must see beyond to really assess.
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Yeah I reckon please look beyond nostalgia. He was pretty mediocre away from home throughout the 1990s and barring 2-3 performances, he didn’t have much to boost for in overseas conditions over his career.

Of course when India will field 2 pacers in their XI, they have to rely on Kumble to be the lead strike bowler. Lack of support is understandable but a career avg of 29 tells us that he had his ups and downs. He is not your biggest match winner by any stretch. That would go to Ashwin.

From Kumble’s era, the biggest match winner was probably Sehwag because he was key to India’s series win in Pakistan and Sri Lanka. Rahul Dravid was key to India’s win overseas.
 
Ab Fan said:
Yeah I reckon please look beyond nostalgia. He was pretty mediocre away from home throughout the 1990s and barring 2-3 performances, he didn’t have much to boost for in overseas conditions over his career.

Of course when India will field 2 pacers in their XI, they have to rely on Kumble to be the lead strike bowler. Lack of support is understandable but a career avg of 29 tells us that he had his ups and downs. He is not your biggest match winner by any stretch. That would go to Ashwin.

From Kumble’s era, the biggest match winner was probably Sehwag because he was key to India’s series win in Pakistan and Sri Lanka. Rahul Dravid was key to India’s win overseas.
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Ash and jad are also pretty average away from home... But yeah, They are placed above Kumble because of their all-round abilities.
 
Ab Fan said:
Yeah I reckon please look beyond nostalgia. He was pretty mediocre away from home throughout the 1990s and barring 2-3 performances, he didn’t have much to boost for in overseas conditions over his career.

Of course when India will field 2 pacers in their XI, they have to rely on Kumble to be the lead strike bowler. Lack of support is understandable but a career avg of 29 tells us that he had his ups and downs. He is not your biggest match winner by any stretch. That would go to Ashwin.

From Kumble’s era, the biggest match winner was probably Sehwag because he was key to India’s series win in Pakistan and Sri Lanka. Rahul Dravid was key to India’s win overseas.
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Look at Sehwag's second innings average first, He was not as good as everyone talks about.
 
Ab Fan said:
Yeah I reckon please look beyond nostalgia. He was pretty mediocre away from home throughout the 1990s and barring 2-3 performances, he didn’t have much to boost for in overseas conditions over his career.

Of course when India will field 2 pacers in their XI, they have to rely on Kumble to be the lead strike bowler. Lack of support is understandable but a career avg of 29 tells us that he had his ups and downs. He is not your biggest match winner by any stretch. That would go to Ashwin.

From Kumble’s era, the biggest match winner was probably Sehwag because he was key to India’s series win in Pakistan and Sri Lanka. Rahul Dravid was key to India’s win overseas.
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I read somewhere that Kumble bowled on much flatter wickets than Ashwin. I will try to find it.

Ashwin bowled on a hell of a lot of spin mambas and was dropped in SENA. If you give them the same conditions and same opposition perhaps record wouldn't be too different. Also Kumble didn't have much of backup especially away from home, Ashwin bowled with much better bowlers. In Kimble's era the attack was pedestrian

IMO both are great of the game, what tier you put them in is debatable, neither would make an ATG XI as its probably taken by Warne And Murali first. No bowler is completely perfect and these guys have some black marks in some areas, but it doesn't take apart their overall legac

But two fine cricketers and undoubtedly legends of the game.
 
DeadlyVenom said:
I read somewhere that Kumble bowled on much flatter wickets than Ashwin. I will try to find it.

Ashwin bowled on a hell of a lot of spin mambas and was dropped in SENA. If you give them the same conditions and same opposition perhaps record wouldn't be too different. Also Kumble didn't have much of backup especially away from home, Ashwin bowled with much better bowlers. In Kimble's era the attack was pedestrian

IMO both are great of the game, what tier you put them in is debatable, neither would make an ATG XI as its probably taken by Warne And Murali first. No bowler is completely perfect and these guys have some black marks in some areas, but it doesn't take apart their overall legac

But two fine cricketers and undoubtedly legends of the game.
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I don’t think Kumble really is that much of a match winner compared to Ashwin.
 
Ab Fan said:
What did Kumble do to be considered India’s biggest match winner?

Ashwin has most player of series and Jadeja has most player of match. They both have gone past him comfortably.
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First of all, Test Matches are won by bowlers, not batsmen. Teams need to take 20 wickets to win matches. So Sehwag could never be more impactful than Kumble. That's simply out of the question.

Second, yes, Ashwin has more POS awards compared to Kumble but he had more support as compared to Kumble as well. Out of the 43 Test wins that Kumble was part of, he took 33.5% of the wickets with a better bowling average than Ashwin's.

Ashwin took 30.9% of the wickets in India's Test wins (61).

Third, as I've mentioned in a separate thread:
With the WTC in place, there is a greater emphasis on making result-oriented tracks, at least in India. Pitches in India were hardly that conducive to spin in Kumble and Harbhajan's time. Scores of 500+ were common and Andy Flower used to feast on such tracks. Jimmy Adams (yeah, the default reaction is who?), scored double hundreds for fun in India and failed as a batsman thereafter.

Then there's the issue of DRS which was absent while Kumble was playing. With his accuracy, imagine how many LBWs he must have lost due to umpiring error?
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Ashwin has 84 LBW dismissals compared to Kumble's 73. Anyone who has seen Kumble bowl will tell you just how accurate he was in attacking the stumps.

If DRS would have been in place (and the WTC cycle, with result-oriented pitches), you would have seen much better stats in Kumble's favour.

Also, in SENA countries, Kumble's record is much better than Ashwin's -- he has 5 5fers and 1 10fer, while Ashwin has none.
 
bunda_bindaas said:
Kumble is, without a doubt, India's biggest match winner in Test cricket, to date.

The second name would be Ravi Ashwin's.

They are both Indian ATGs. In fact, they are both bigger than Tendulkar, as far as Test cricket is concerned.
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Kumble used to be... till Ash and Jaddu came along.
 
Obaidd said:
maybe you got influenced by sir jadeja memes or something cuz he was always pretty good. The criticism he got was unjustified imo. What did he do wrong exactly?
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Unsure what you mean by what did he do wrong or influenced by meme? I just don't like the guy man - was never able to. It's a personal preference. It's like saying you like coke, I like sprite. Certain people you just don't connect with - be it people in your life or celebs/sportsmen.
 
SportsWarrior said:
Shakib is inferior bowler and fielder compared to Jadeja. Shakib batted in top 5/6 and was a premier player in his mediocre team allowing him opportunities to bat up the order and bowl at his will. He was also captain for a considerable amount of time and didn’t have any other mayor bowler with whom he had to share his wickets. Jadeja was one of many superstars on the team and throughout his career played second fiddle to Ashwin on spin friendly pitches and to Bumrah and others in seam friendly ones. Moreover he has played higher percentage of his matches against top teams unlike Shakib who played minimally with England, Australia and India/ SA (not due to his mistake). Even with that Jadeja has superior bowling stats whereas Shakib is mediocre and now even has better batting stats. Skill and performance wise Jadeja is far superior to Shakib.
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Am I the only sane one here? Jadeja is my countrymen and I even see the flaw in what you're saying. Shakib as a player is much superior than Jadeja. Jadeja did not get to flourish into a top all rounder because Ind has too many good batsmen. No one ever relied on Jadeja to win the match with both bat/ball by himself. Shakib did that throughout his whole career. It's rare that BD won when Shakib didn't perform. Bro was carrying a whole country on his shoulder. Jadeja's primary job was to win you games with the ball - which is why he is a better bowler (?? obviously!! - he is primarly playing as a bowler, so what were you expecting). When players like Virat, Rohit, other indian legends were there, and was in form, who really needed Jadeja's batting - hence we never got to see any opportunity for Jadeja to shine with the bat to win games and quite frankly, he never really had that pressure. Shakib's job was to win you games with both bat and ball - this itself is another skill to have. I also think this is what seperates Kallis from rest of the all-rounder - cause in a team of superstar, they still relied on him to deliver in both department, and he did do that.

And to be fair, the performance Shakib put on during the WC19, it's extremly rare for a player to put on a performance like that in a WC tournament. I don't think anyone did the 10+ wicket + 600 runs in a WC tournament, could not find anyone matching those numbers on cricinfo. That itself should have given you some clue. Jadeja would not be able to put on a performance like that if his life depended on it. I just looked at some stats, bro has fifers in test against all nations. Even has a double centruy in NZ. So I donno what you're talking about.

Also, I think you guys don't remember that when BD ex seniors were all in form, BD was a formidable ODI team. Never a easy side to beat during that time. From 2015-2019, they were definitely playing like a top 5 team so Shakib was not the sole performer during that time.

P.S there are very few players in the world who can compete with Jadeja's fielding. Bro is one of the best fielder india has every produced. Espacially when he was much younger.
 
light said:
Am I the only sane one here? Jadeja is my countrymen and I even see the flaw in what you're saying. Shakib as a player is much superior than Jadeja. Jadeja did not get to flourish into a top all rounder because Ind has too many good batsmen. No one ever relied on Jadeja to win the match with both bat/ball by himself. Shakib did that throughout his whole career. It's rare that BD won when Shakib didn't perform. Bro was carrying a whole country on his shoulder. Jadeja's primary job was to win you games with the ball - which is why he is a better bowler (?? obviously!! - he is primarly playing as a bowler, so what were you expecting). When players like Virat, Rohit, other indian legends were there, and was in form, who really needed Jadeja's batting - hence we never got to see any opportunity for Jadeja to shine with the bat to win games and quite frankly, he never really had that pressure. Shakib's job was to win you games with both bat and ball - this itself is another skill to have. I also think this is what seperates Kallis from rest of the all-rounder - cause in a team of superstar, they still relied on him to deliver in both department, and he did do that.

And to be fair, the performance Shakib put on during the WC19, it's extremly rare for a player to put on a performance like that in a WC tournament. I don't think anyone did the 10+ wicket + 600 runs in a WC tournament, could not find anyone matching those numbers on cricinfo. That itself should have given you some clue. Jadeja would not be able to put on a performance like that if his life depended on it. I just looked at some stats, bro has fifers in test against all nations. Even has a double centruy in NZ. So I donno what you're talking about.

Also, I think you guys don't remember that when BD ex seniors were all in form, BD was a formidable ODI team. Never a easy side to beat during that time. From 2015-2019, they were definitely playing like a top 5 team so Shakib was not the sole performer during that time.

P.S there are very few players in the world who can compete with Jadeja's fielding. Bro is one of the best fielder india has every produced. Espacially when he was much younger.
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In ODIs, Shakib is superior but Jadeja is hampered by the fact that he played for a team like India, not Bangladesh.

If Jadeja played for a team like Bangladesh, he'd be a top-order bat as well and would have notched up similar numbers. If Shakib played for India in ODIs, he'd be very limited in terms of batting and bowling opportunities, much like Jadeja.

In Test Cricket, which is what this post is about, he's just way ahead of Shakib as a bowler and very similar in terms of batting capability.

In Test cricket, Jadeja has 33 50+ scores, while Shakib has 36. Shakib has 600 more runs while playing 1 more inning. Surprisingly, Jadeja has 1 more Hundred compared to Shakib.

When it comes to bowling, Jadeja has the better bowling average, SR, ER and more wickets/inning.

tl;dr -- Tests, Jadeja is better

ODIs -- Shakib is better.
 
Jadeja is a better Test match player where as Shakib was superior in white ball cricket.

@light would you agree with this above statement?

:shakib
 
Also, with respect to the Shakib Vs Jadeja debate, I'll add one more thing:

In Test Cricket (and ODIs), Shakib was a middle order batsman whereas Jadeja was a lower order bat.

For Jadeja to match Shakib's batting as a lower order batsman is a much bigger achievement. That just elevates his numbers to a different (higher) level.
 
Rajdeep said:
Jadeja is a better Test match player where as Shakib was superior in white ball cricket.

@light would you agree with this above statement?

:shakib
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I would agree that Jadeja is a better test bowler and a better red ball cricketer - and also playing for india, he had the luxary to play with top teams more often. But overall wise - Shakib is still better in my book as a cricketer if we take white/red ball out of the equation.

Also, am not looking into stats before stating this (just from memory and what I usually saw), but I think Jadeja's batting stats is inflated because being a lower order batsment, I would assume many times he stayed unbeaten whereas playing as a top order batsmen, that possibility is not always there.

Also would like to state that if Jadeja played for BD, I think we would actually get to witness his true potential of what he would be able to accomplish as a true all rounder. He is shielded with many good bowlers/batsmen most of the time so his impact isnt usually felt unlike Shakib (or Nabi if we want to take another example from another team).

and for the LOL part - I've even seen people compare these two to Shadab khan ... Now that's just pure LOLs :ROFLMAO:
 
bunda_bindaas said:
First of all, Test Matches are won by bowlers, not batsmen. Teams need to take 20 wickets to win matches. So Sehwag could never be more impactful than Kumble. That's simply out of the question.

Second, yes, Ashwin has more POS awards compared to Kumble but he had more support as compared to Kumble as well. Out of the 43 Test wins that Kumble was part of, he took 33.5% of the wickets with a better bowling average than Ashwin's.

Ashwin took 30.9% of the wickets in India's Test wins (61).

Third, as I've mentioned in a separate thread:


Ashwin has 84 LBW dismissals compared to Kumble's 73. Anyone who has seen Kumble bowl will tell you just how accurate he was in attacking the stumps.

If DRS would have been in place (and the WTC cycle, with result-oriented pitches), you would have seen much better stats in Kumble's favour.

Also, in SENA countries, Kumble's record is much better than Ashwin's -- he has 5 5fers and 1 10fer, while Ashwin has none.
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Ashwin having more support should actually mean that he should be winning less player of series award because Jadeja and several other players would also be in contention. That should actually be an argument against Ashwin because someone else can win player of series too.
 
Player Mat Runs Bat Av 100 Wkts Bowl Av 5W Ct Ave Diff
Imran Khan (PAK) 88 3807 37.69 6 362 22.81 23 28 14.88
KR Miller (AUS) 55 2958 36.97 7 170 22.97 7 38 13.99
RA Jadeja (IND) 86 3990 38.73 6 334 25.07 15 47 13.66
SM Pollock (SA) 108 3781 32.31 2 421 23.11 16 72 9.19
TL Goddard (SA) 41 2516 34.46 1 123 26.22 5 48 8.23
IT Botham (ENG) 102 5200 33.54 14 383 28.4 27 120 5.14
CL Cairns (NZ) 62 3320 33.53 5 218 29.4 13 14 4.13
W Rhodes (ENG) 58 2325 30.19 2 127 26.96 6 60 3.22
N Kapil Dev (IND) 131 5248 31.05 8 434 29.64 23 64 1.4
 
jeetu said:
Player Mat Runs Bat Av 100 Wkts Bowl Av 5W Ct Ave Diff
Imran Khan (PAK) 88 3807 37.69 6 362 22.81 23 28 14.88
KR Miller (AUS) 55 2958 36.97 7 170 22.97 7 38 13.99
RA Jadeja (IND) 86 3990 38.73 6 334 25.07 15 47 13.66
SM Pollock (SA) 108 3781 32.31 2 421 23.11 16 72 9.19
TL Goddard (SA) 41 2516 34.46 1 123 26.22 5 48 8.23
IT Botham (ENG) 102 5200 33.54 14 383 28.4 27 120 5.14
CL Cairns (NZ) 62 3320 33.53 5 218 29.4 13 14 4.13
W Rhodes (ENG) 58 2325 30.19 2 127 26.96 6 60 3.22
N Kapil Dev (IND) 131 5248 31.05 8 434 29.64 23 64 1.4
Click to expand...
What about Kallis and Sobers?
 
saimayubera said:
What about Kallis and Sobers?
Click to expand...
This list is sorted by difference between batting and bowling averages.

Sobers and Kallis would be #1 and #2, based on that criteria.

But it's false economy, to be honest. Both Sobers and Kallis were not good enough to win matches as bowlers, which is why they would rank below bowling all rounders, in terms of impact.

Great batsmen though, and depending on conditions, it would make sense to play either of them over a bowling all rounder.
 
Ted123 said:
Ashwin having more support should actually mean that he should be winning less player of series award because Jadeja and several other players would also be in contention. That should actually be an argument against Ashwin because someone else can win player of series too.
Click to expand...
If I understand your point correctly, you are saying that it counts in Ashwin's favour that he had more MOS performances, despite competition?
 
Ted123 said:
Ashwin having more support should actually mean that he should be winning less player of series award because Jadeja and several other players would also be in contention. That should actually be an argument against Ashwin because someone else can win player of series too.
Click to expand...
There was one series where Ashwin could have won man of the series. 2016 England series But given to Kohli for 655 runs. In the same series Ashwin made 306 runs and took 28 wickets
 
He is definitely a good all-round cricketer

However, this is perfect example where stats could be misleading.

He needs to thank Dhoni for introducing the idea of rank turner pitches. He owes to Dhoni most of his victims.


Very unfair to compare him with the great all-rounders of the past via stats.
There is no comparison between Kapil Dev and Jadeja.
I would even rate Manoj Prarbharkar higher than them.

Stats could be misleading


PS: Mohinder Amarnath, Madan Lal and Roger Binny were also good all-rounders of India, who come to mind. However, Jadeja is probably the best fielder India has ever produced. Even better than Azharuddin.
 
tiger_khan said:
He is definitely a good all-round cricketer

However, this is perfect example where stats could be misleading.

He needs to thank Dhoni for introducing the idea of rank turner pitches. He owes to Dhoni most of his victims.


Very unfair to compare him with the great all-rounders of the past via stats.
There is no comparison between Kapil Dev and Jadeja.
I would even rate Manoj Prarbharkar higher than them.

Stats could be misleading


PS: Mohinder Amarnath, Madan Lal and Roger Binny were also good all-rounders of India, who come to mind. However, Jadeja is probably the best fielder India has ever produced. Even better than Azharuddin.
Click to expand...

Actually, no. If he succeeded as a bowler on rank turners, then he also succeeded as a batsman on the same pitches.

Besides, a lot of these pitches were not rank turners. Jadeja took 7 for 40 something in a match where India scored 750 odd with Karun Nair scoring a triple hundred.
 
tiger_khan said:
He is definitely a good all-round cricketer

However, this is perfect example where stats could be misleading.

He needs to thank Dhoni for introducing the idea of rank turner pitches. He owes to Dhoni most of his victims.


Very unfair to compare him with the great all-rounders of the past via stats.
There is no comparison between Kapil Dev and Jadeja.
I would even rate Manoj Prarbharkar higher than them.

Stats could be misleading


PS: Mohinder Amarnath, Madan Lal and Roger Binny were also good all-rounders of India, who come to mind. However, Jadeja is probably the best fielder India has ever produced. Even better than Azharuddin.
Click to expand...
Who said they are rank turners? Lot of wickets were taken by Umesh yadav and Shami. We had a handful of such pitches which often backfired on India. Infact real rank turner pitches happened under Kohli not MSD.
 
bunda_bindaas said:
Actually, no. If he succeeded as a bowler on rank turners, then he also succeeded as a batsman on the same pitches.

Besides, a lot of these pitches were not rank turners. Jadeja took 7 for 40 something in a match where India scored 750 odd with Karun Nair scoring a triple hundred.
Click to expand...
Actually, 58% of his test matches were in Indie. However, 72% of his wickets are in home tests.

If you look at image which provides a list of all the all-rounders (in this thread), all the players will be automatic selection of their team in away series, except for Jadeja and Ashwin.

Furthermore, what day of the test was he bowling when he took 7 wickets? Regardless, one innings performance is not a sample big enough to extrapolate the entire career.

don't get me wrong. he is an excellent cricketer but can't be compared with Kapil Dev, Ian Botham, etc.
 
tiger_khan said:
He is definitely a good all-round cricketer

However, this is perfect example where stats could be misleading.

He needs to thank Dhoni for introducing the idea of rank turner pitches. He owes to Dhoni most of his victims.


Very unfair to compare him with the great all-rounders of the past via stats.
There is no comparison between Kapil Dev and Jadeja.
I would even rate Manoj Prarbharkar higher than them.

Stats could be misleading


PS: Mohinder Amarnath, Madan Lal and Roger Binny were also good all-rounders of India, who come to mind. However, Jadeja is probably the best fielder India has ever produced. Even better than Azharuddin.
Click to expand...
I forgot to mention Ravi Shastri

He was also a great Indian allrounder. Had he got the pitches like Jadeja had, he would have ended up with over 300 test wickets.

If Anil Kumble bowled got current Indian pitch conditions, he would have gotten 800 wickets...
 
tiger_khan said:
He is definitely a good all-round cricketer

However, this is perfect example where stats could be misleading.

He needs to thank Dhoni for introducing the idea of rank turner pitches. He owes to Dhoni most of his victims.
Click to expand...

When Dhoni was captain - in India, Avg runs per wickets by batting teams

Ind - 44
SL - 41
Eng - 38
SA - 33
NZ - 29
...
...

Over all 37 runs per wickets by batsmen. Jadeja's avg under Dhoni - 19.8 runs per wicket.

I don't think rank turner were present in most matches under Dhoni.
 
Buffet said:
When Dhoni was captain - in India, Avg runs per wickets by batting teams

Ind - 44
SL - 41
Eng - 38
SA - 33
NZ - 29
...
...

Over all 37 runs per wickets by batsmen. Jadeja's avg under Dhoni - 19.8 runs per wicket.

I don't think rank turner were present in most matches under Dhoni.
Click to expand...
Yea.. they just do this reverse logic. If Ashwin and Jadeja take wickets it has to be turners
 
I think it was a mistake for India to have rank turners any time. With Ashwin/Jadeja/Third good spinner - Normal turning tracks would have made it way harder for any team to come close to winning. With rank turner, bowling quality matters a lot less.

Jadeja debuted in 2012, Since 2012

Avg runs per wicket in Ind - 30+ runs per wickets
Jadeja has taken around 250 wickets at 20 runs per wicket
Jadeja has scored 2K+ runs at avg of around 40.

It's as good as gets as a pure all rounder in home conditions. He has scored 10 plus runs comapred to avg and taken wickets 10 minus runs of avg in India. Mostt likely best all time fileders among all rounders. Rank turner, flat wickets ... any combination, this output taken together is just fantastic.



I underrated him for a long time. He has been genuine top class all rounder in Asia, WI and Aus. Other venues, he is more like a batsman who bowls.
 
tiger_khan said:
Actually, 58% of his test matches were in Indie. However, 72% of his wickets are in home tests.

If you look at image which provides a list of all the all-rounders (in this thread), all the players will be automatic selection of their team in away series, except for Jadeja and Ashwin.

Furthermore, what day of the test was he bowling when he took 7 wickets? Regardless, one innings performance is not a sample big enough to extrapolate the entire career.

don't get me wrong. he is an excellent cricketer but can't be compared with Kapil Dev, Ian Botham, etc.
Click to expand...

Jadeja is an automatic selection for India overseas. In fact, he is the reason why Ashwin did not play in overseas tests, especially in SENA.

He took 7/48 on the 5th day of the Test Match against England and bowled India to victory. There were only 30 odd minutes left for the day's play to finish but England were bowled out for 177 (after scoring 477 in the first innings).

Out of his top 20 bowling performances, there are only 4 instances where both teams averaged less than 30 runs/batter, in India, over the whole test match.

It is actually a myth that he and Ashwin benefitted only from rank turners. Most of the times, at least one team scored over 300 on the same pitch.

If Anil Kumble bowled got current Indian pitch conditions, he would have gotten 800 wickets...
Click to expand...

This, I do agree with. Not the pitches alone, but with DRS, definitely.
 
tiger_khan said:
I forgot to mention Ravi Shastri

He was also a great Indian allrounder. Had he got the pitches like Jadeja had, he would have ended up with over 300 test wickets.

If Anil Kumble bowled got current Indian pitch conditions, he would have gotten 800 wickets...
Click to expand...
Untrue. Kumble had far worse pitches in the 1990s where ball would literally scoot. Random guys like Chahuahn, Raju, Nilesh all took wickets to support him. Kumble is not a massive turner. One of the reason he became easier and easier to negotiate through 2000 was everybody started following the thumbrule of treating him as an inswing bowler. Almost all his balls were googlies. Very rarely ball went away. A tactic that worked massively for younis khan. He literally swept him from the stumps without worrying about catching the edge.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
Untrue. Kumble had far worse pitches in the 1990s where ball would literally scoot. Random guys like Chahuahn, Raju, Nilesh all took wickets to support him. Kumble is not a massive turner. One of the reason he became easier and easier to negotiate through 2000 was everybody started following the thumbrule of treating him as an inswing bowler. Almost all his balls were googlies. Very rarely ball went away. A tactic that worked massively for younis khan. He literally swept him from the stumps without worrying about catching the edge.
Click to expand...
This is not true at all. The average scores during Kumble's era were 400+. Average batsmen were scoring double hundreds on Indian pitches.

How many wickets did Rajesh Chauhan, Raju take compared to Kumble? Kumble took 30% of the wickets when he played for India. Assuming 5 bowlers per team, he was doing the job of 1.5 bowler over a period of 132 Tests!

And batsmen were sweeping him, also padding him because there was no DRS! Had there been DRS, and umpires been more strict with LBWs, Kumble with his attacking line would have taken way more wickets. As it is, he already had 25% of his dismissals (156 wickets) coming from LBWs (and 15% clean bowled).
 
bunda_bindaas said:
This is not true at all. The average scores during Kumble's era were 400+. Average batsmen were scoring double hundreds on Indian pitches.

How many wickets did Rajesh Chauhan, Raju take compared to Kumble? Kumble took 30% of the wickets when he played for India. Assuming 5 bowlers per team, he was doing the job of 1.5 bowler over a period of 132 Tests!

And batsmen were sweeping him, also padding him because there was no DRS! Had there been DRS, and umpires been more strict with LBWs, Kumble with his attacking line would have taken way more wickets. As it is, he already had 25% of his dismissals (156 wickets) coming from LBWs (and 15% clean bowled).
Click to expand...

No Younis khan was nailing every single ball. Infact he Kumble was targeted at Bangalore test on a pitch where Afridi was wreaking havoc on day 5. Kumble was limited bowler for a leg spinner. He was very accurate. But he was not really beating batsmen with guile and flight like Warnie did. People are sweeping even now. Check Ben Duckett and ENglish team. Kumble is no Chandra. Chandra is the gold standard for leg spinner in India
 
jnaveen1980 said:
No Younis khan was nailing every single ball. Infact he Kumble was targeted at Bangalore test on a pitch where Afridi was wreaking havoc on day 5. Kumble was limited bowler for a leg spinner. He was very accurate. But he was not really beating batsmen with guile and flight like Warnie did. People are sweeping even now. Check Ben Duckett and ENglish team. Kumble is no Chandra. Chandra is the gold standard for leg spinner in India
Click to expand...
Kumble was not a bowler like Warne, that's obviously true.

Kumble had a bad game against Pak in Bangalore. In the previous match, at Eden Gardens, he had taken 7 wickets and a 10fer against Pak.

He still had a pretty good 2005, overall. 2 10fers and a bowling average of 27.5 (par for that era) and 37 Test wickets in 6 matches.

Batsmen still sweep, yes, but the chances of them getting nailed by DRS are pretty high. They can be given out on umpire's call, which was not the case when Kumble was playing. Umpires were actually reluctant to give batsmen out while padding the ball or while sweeping.

Jimmy Adams was nicknamed Jimmy Padams because he used his pads to block Indian spinners! And he was POS.

Since LBWs were Kumble's main mode of dismissal, he definitely would have benefitted a lot with having DRS during his time.
 
Anyone undermining Kumble, haven’t really watched cricket in the 90s and 2000s. Kumble and Javagal Srinath were the lone bowling warriors. Kumble bowling with broken Jaw in the Caribbean shows his heart. With the current DRS and Indian pitches he would have wrecked havoc. His batting was underrated too and I believe he never fully realized his batting potential. This recency bias is mind boggling. Kumble went toe to toe with the best Australian team ever and showed his mettle.
 
Thread was about Jadeja but it has turned into Kumble one ..... Please come back now
 
Buffet said:
I think it was a mistake for India to have rank turners any time. With Ashwin/Jadeja/Third good spinner - Normal turning tracks would have made it way harder for any team to come close to winning. With rank turner, bowling quality matters a lot less.

Jadeja debuted in 2012, Since 2012

Avg runs per wicket in Ind - 30+ runs per wickets
Jadeja has taken around 250 wickets at 20 runs per wicket
Jadeja has scored 2K+ runs at avg of around 40.

It's as good as gets as a pure all rounder in home conditions. He has scored 10 plus runs comapred to avg and taken wickets 10 minus runs of avg in India. Mostt likely best all time fileders among all rounders. Rank turner, flat wickets ... any combination, this output taken together is just fantastic.



I underrated him for a long time. He has been genuine top class all rounder in Asia, WI and Aus. Other venues, he is more like a batsman who bowls.
Click to expand...
The fact that all his teammates with whom he played for so long are retired and he is still there and contributing heavily tells us about his passion, will and hunger for Test cricket. The desire usually starts going away once all your mates with whom you have played so long are gone.
 
Batting wise, its Shakib and bowling wise, its Jadeja.

Most cricket experts like to pick players based on all formats, so Shakib will get an edge due to white ball exploits. Purely in Test cricket though, Jadeja wins it comfortably.
 
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