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Right to abortion overturned by US Supreme Court after nearly 50 years in Roe v Wade ruling

Where do you stand on the abortion debate?


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It is step backwards....women should be able to do what they want, why should a woman have a child if the man who helped create it doesn't stick around? Is the SC going to bring in a ruling to to make them stay or contribute to upbringing for said child financially and emotionally? This like all rulings will disportionally effect the poor and already marginalised groups.

Because its a HUMAN LIFE?

There is nothing more valuable than human life in this universe(as we know it) and also according to Islam.

Its not always the man not sticking around. Sorry this is a feminist idea when in reality abortion is a choice made mostly by both partners and probably more by the females who have to go through pregnancy , often hampering their careers or because they just dont to commit to anything even a life.

A baby is a living miracle. To abort a child just because you dont want to have kids is murder imo.

Its better for such people to have operations where they cant have children or to use protection but even then its not 100% safeproof. Or better still dont have intimate relations until you find the person you want to marry, spend your life with and want to have kids with.

India is even worse but the west claims the moral high ground but openly indulge in genocide.
 
Because its a HUMAN LIFE?

There is nothing more valuable than human life in this universe(as we know it) and also according to Islam.

Its not always the man not sticking around. Sorry this is a feminist idea when in reality abortion is a choice made mostly by both partners and probably more by the females who have to go through pregnancy , often hampering their careers or because they just dont to commit to anything even a life.

A baby is a living miracle. To abort a child just because you dont want to have kids is murder imo.

Its better for such people to have operations where they cant have children or to use protection but even then its not 100% safeproof. Or better still dont have intimate relations until you find the person you want to marry, spend your life with and want to have kids with.

India is even worse but the west claims the moral high ground but openly indulge in genocide.

Hmm so that human life feeds and clothes it self? You have mentioned Islam and I will continue with that theme, in Islam 3 things are pre determined birth, death and your wealth, so how do you explain 100s of 000s abortions, how does that fit with with Islamic argument you have presented, unless I am incorrect in terms of the birth/death being pre determined?

If a woman has a baby that a partner doesn't want she shouldn't expect any financial assistance but if a partner doesn't want her to abort will he take the child at birth?

Very easy for men to make such statements as they don't lose 9 months, possible on going complications from the pregnancy etc
 
Hmm so that human life feeds and clothes it self? You have mentioned Islam and I will continue with that theme, in Islam 3 things are pre determined birth, death and your wealth, so how do you explain 100s of 000s abortions, how does that fit with with Islamic argument you have presented, unless I am incorrect in terms of the birth/death being pre determined?

If a woman has a baby that a partner doesn't want she shouldn't expect any financial assistance but if a partner doesn't want her to abort will he take the child at birth?

Very easy for men to make such statements as they don't lose 9 months, possible on going complications from the pregnancy etc

Its nothing to do with me being a man, I would hold the same opionon as a female, as i believe in the principle.

I only gave you the Islamic view, its not really up for debate on this thread. Pre-destination doesnt cancel out free will.

Are you really suggesting its ok to take a life because of COST? Why then dont we kill off people who are costing society but never contribute?

Poor people have children, many have been able to work hard and their children have enjoyed a much better life in the future.

Am I then then right to assume you also believe those who are in deep poverty ie only able to provide 2 smalls meals a day for their kids, are better off killing them before they are born? Or why not after they are born? What age would you stop this?
 
Im a pro choice, however this is the correct decision. Its not the courts job to make the laws. Ideally the Federal Government should pass a law that legalizes abortion. Democrats had a chance to do this during the Obama Administration, however they did not do so.

Right now their is not enough support to legalize it or ban it at the federal level, so the states can decide. And that's all this court order does let the states decide. This is how democracy should work.
 
The US constitution is to blame. Both the composition of the senate and the insane idea that judges’ political and religious bias should be known, accepted and even encouraged.

The microstates like the Dakotas, Wyoming, Nebraska and Idaho elect the same number of senators each as California which has a population eighty times bigger.

Three Supreme Court far-right extremists, whose political and religious bias renders them unfit to uphold the law as a village magistrate, were installed by a president who had lost the popular vote by 2 million votes.

And now a tiny number of uneducated Bible-bashing morons in the microstates get to hold the women of the country to ransom.

It is an assault on women and on their freedom, and the return to backstreet abortions will kill countless women and foetuses while it hurries these despicable judges towards eternity in Hell for the deaths and suffering that their appalling judgment will now cause.
 
The US constitution is to blame. Both the composition of the senate and the insane idea that judges’ political and religious bias should be known, accepted and even encouraged.

The microstates like the Dakotas, Wyoming, Nebraska and Idaho elect the same number of senators each as California which has a population eighty times bigger.

Three Supreme Court far-right extremists, whose political and religious bias renders them unfit to uphold the law as a village magistrate, were installed by a president who had lost the popular vote by 2 million votes.

And now a tiny number of uneducated Bible-bashing morons in the microstates get to hold the women of the country to ransom.

It is an assault on women and on their freedom, and the return to backstreet abortions will kill countless women and foetuses while it hurries these despicable judges towards eternity in Hell for the deaths and suffering that their appalling judgment will now cause.

Only the women in those "microstates" and other conservatives states like Texas will lose the right to have an abortion. And the majority of women in those states are opposed to the legalization of abortion. This is why those states banned it in the first place.

The women from the liberal states like California and New York can still have abortions.
 
Roe v. Wade reversal leads to 'heartbreaking' scenes at U.S. abortion clinics
Many scheduled for procedures in state of shock, forced to scramble for alternatives

Shortly after 9 a.m. local time on Friday at Little Rock Family Planning Services, staff at the abortion clinic in Little Rock, Ark., began the task of telling patients — some of whom had travelled hundreds of kilometres — that their scheduled appointments were cancelled.

"It was heartbreaking," said clinic director Lori Williams, her voice full of emotion. "I've done this work for 22 years, and none of us have really ever thought that it would come to this point."

Arkansas is one of 13 U.S. states with trigger laws — bans on abortion that would come into effect if Roe v. Wade was ever overturned. For some of those states, Friday's U.S. Supreme Court decision to set aside the landmark ruling from 1973 had the immediate effect of ceasing all abortion services — leaving many patients scheduled for procedures in a state of shock and forced to scramble for alternatives.

Abortions were immediately halted in nine states, according to The Associated Press. Providers in two other states, Oklahoma and South Dakota, had already stopped performing the procedure in the past month. About 73 million people live in the 11 states where the procedure is no longer available — more than a fifth of the U.S. population.

Here's how some U.S. states are moving to restrict abortions
Jubilation, defiance outside U.S. Supreme Court in wake of Roe v. Wade reversal
On the morning of the Supreme Court ruling, there were six patients in the waiting area, 17 procedures scheduled and more than 30 people scheduled for their first visit at Little Rock Family Planning Services, one of two clinics that provide abortion services in the state, Williams said.

She said when the decision came down, staff met with each patient individually in a private area "to give them the courtesy of their emotional reaction being private."

'Tears in our eyes'
Williams said staff then explained "with tears in our eyes that the law simply changed with this ruling and that there was no longer a federal protection, which means Arkansas would immediately make abortion illegal and we weren't able to care for them."

Some of the patients were "extraordinarily shocked" and didn't really understand why or how this could happen, she said.

"Most were just extremely upset and emotional and just didn't know what to do next," Williams said. "These patients are already in a vulnerable state of mind, trying to deal with everything that goes along with making a decision regarding their pregnancy."

Because Arkansas has a waiting period, all of the patients who were expecting to have a procedure that day had been at the clinic once before at least three days prior, had already had an ultrasound and had received the state-mandated information, she said.

"Some were on their second visit as far away as Texas and Oklahoma. And we still had to tell them that they couldn't be seen — that now Illinois was probably their next closest option."

Williams said that since abortion is the primary service the clinic offers, it will likely have to shut its doors.

"We've had conversations with the staff. But it's still very heartbreaking for most of them who are losing their job and income," she said.

A similar scene was taking place a little under 1,000 kilometres away at the Alamo Women's Reproductive Services clinic in San Antonio, Texas, where a distraught Dr. Alan Braid walked into the waiting area to tell the nine patients that were scheduled with appointments that they had to go home.

"It was a very emotional moment for him, because he's been doing this for so so long," said Kristina Hernandez, director of nursing staff at the clinic. "He's been doing this for so, so long. It's hard to tell patients that he can't help them."

Although Texas's own trigger law is set to come into effect 30 days after the top court's decision, the state's attorney general said a ban that was in place before Roe v. Wade meant that "abortion providers could be criminally liable for providing abortions starting [Friday]."

'Very desperate for services'
"Patients had come from Oklahoma and then others, you know, still just being very desperate for services and just very sad and worried about what to do next," Hernandez said.

Some patients had driven nine and a half hours from Oklahoma, she said.

"We even had some patients that we were unable to reach by phone. So they were still coming into the clinic."

Hernandez explained how difficult it was telling patients in person that the clinic couldn't provide services and the reaction of "them begging — like, 'Please, please, please, please help me. Please, just give me the pill. You know, I did everything right.'"

She said all staff could do was provide information on what clinics are available outside of the state.

Wisconsin's 173-year-old ban
Although Texas has a trigger law, it's also an example of a state that has older laws on the books that ban abortions. In Wisconsin, for example, abortions were halted on Friday as questions remained about the enforceability of a 173-year-old state ban.

Wisconsin has an 1849 law that bans abortion, except to save the life of the mother, but whether that law is enforceable is expected to be challenged in court.

Abortion laws exist in many states where the state had a law that was overturned or significantly modified in 1973 when Roe v. Wade was decided, said James J. Sample, a law professor at Hofstra University in Hempstead, N.Y.

Many of those states didn't take steps to repeal those laws, he said.

"Now that Roe is no longer the law, states are going to be fighting — and advocates on both sides will be fighting in those states — arguing in both legislatures and in courts that those laws are either now in effect again or no longer valid," Sample said.

"So that's going to be a state-by-state question."

Sample said he believes that clarity will come swiftly and decisively in almost all of the states because of the urgency and the motivation on all sides.

But in the handful of states where there's a lack of clarity, "the pitch and intensity of the battles over the coming weeks and months is going to be of an intensity that most Americans have probably never experienced."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/abortion-clinic-trigger-laws-closed-states-1.6501781
 
Im a pro choice, however this is the correct decision. Its not the courts job to make the laws. Ideally the Federal Government should pass a law that legalizes abortion. Democrats had a chance to do this during the Obama Administration, however they did not do so.

Right now their is not enough support to legalize it or ban it at the federal level, so the states can decide. And that's all this court order does let the states decide. This is how democracy should work.

Then why were Guns not mandated the same way? It should had left to states.
 
Its nothing to do with me being a man, I would hold the same opionon as a female, as i believe in the principle.

I only gave you the Islamic view, its not really up for debate on this thread. Pre-destination doesnt cancel out free will.

Are you really suggesting its ok to take a life because of COST? Why then dont we kill off people who are costing society but never contribute?

Poor people have children, many have been able to work hard and their children have enjoyed a much better life in the future.

Am I then then right to assume you also believe those who are in deep poverty ie only able to provide 2 smalls meals a day for their kids, are better off killing them before they are born? Or why not after they are born? What age would you stop this?

No I don't think anyone should say who can and can't have children!

But a person without support may not want to keep the child or someone in an abusive relationship and yes some will terminate if doesn't fot their lifestyle at that time.

Then on the hand you have women who terminate due to medical issues or after a miscarriage all these will not be permitted. So is it fair to let a woman die on the process?
 
Nice to see Liberals and Democratics crticise the 3 SC Judges, whom were NOMINATED by Trump but APPROVED by both Democratics and Republicans.

More so, if this decision is a religious endeavour, then its high time we stop refering to Amreeka as the beacon of secularism; it is not, Amreeka is no different to any religious states where religion comes first.

Amreeka is the Christian state.
 
Nice to see Liberals and Democratics crticise the 3 SC Judges, whom were NOMINATED by Trump but APPROVED by both Democratics and Republicans.

More so, if this decision is a religious endeavour, then its high time we stop refering to Amreeka as the beacon of secularism; it is not, Amreeka is no different to any religious states where religion comes first.

Amreeka is the Christian state.
The only Democrat who confirmed them was Joe Manchin, from the arch-Conservative state of West Virginia.

Trump just had the numbers in the Senate at that time.

Ironically he has a strong history of supporting (and utilising) abortion. But he realised that his only pathway to government was through uneducated white Christian voters - and he gave them what they wanted on the Supreme Court to buy their votes.
 
It is step backwards....women should be able to do what they want, why should a woman have a child if the man who helped create it doesn't stick around? Is the SC going to bring in a ruling to to make them stay or contribute to upbringing for said child financially and emotionally? This like all rulings will disportionally effect the poor and already marginalised groups.

What about if a man leaves a woman after the child is born? Should the woman or man be allowed to kill the child if one of them is not going to stick around?
 
The only Democrat who confirmed them was Joe Manchin, from the arch-Conservative state of West Virginia.

Trump just had the numbers in the Senate at that time.

Ironically he has a strong history of supporting (and utilising) abortion. But he realised that his only pathway to government was through uneducated white Christian voters - and he gave them what they wanted on the Supreme Court to buy their votes.

So Trump played the game, are you telling me no other President ever did? What have Democrats achieved when they've the numbers in the Senate?
 
And while liberals and democrats cry over this decision, the fact is this decision only means that abortion is no longer a constitutional right, and the right to abortion is now with individual states.

Lets see the blue States legalise abortion of choice and freedom are so important!

3.2.1.Go!
 
What about if a man leaves a woman after the child is born? Should the woman or man be allowed to kill the child if one of them is not going to stick around?

It isn't the states business if a woman keeps her unborn child or not! No argument you or other make justifies not allowing women to chose what they do.

I hope those cheering this decision are the same who didn't want to get covid vaccines? As it was their choice not too!
 
Only the women in those "microstates" and other conservatives states like Texas will lose the right to have an abortion. And the majority of women in those states are opposed to the legalization of abortion. This is why those states banned it in the first place.

The women from the liberal states like California and New York can still have abortions.

Bible Belt states will repeal reproductive rights. Cali, Washington, Oregon, Colorado, Hawaii, Illinois, the New England states and NY will keep them. So better-off women will be able to travel for their procedure. Sadly, as race is so connected to class in US, black women will go to the backstreets instead. So race-based inequality in medical care will rise even further.
 
Very poor decision.

Someone very close to me almost died giving birth, its astounding she's alive and everyday I sit and think and am amazed she got out of it. If another woman is in the same position and is raped, its a potential death sentence on her for no reason.

Having worked in hospitals the average joe doesn't realise how dangerous pregnancy is for so many women. And how unfair would it be for a woman to carry a child that was forced on her. Abortions uptil a certain number of weeks should be allowed, absolute no brainer.

The same morons in the US who were screaming for my body my rules when it came to masks. Absolute nutcase of a state when it comes to their justice system.

Have no intention of arguing this with people who have no clue, carry on.
 
I keep hearing about "my body, my choice".

Yes. It is your body. It is your choice. However, your choice doesn't override baby's right to live (unless, there is an emergency of course).
 
Hmm so that human life feeds and clothes it self? You have mentioned Islam and I will continue with that theme, in Islam 3 things are pre determined birth, death and your wealth, so how do you explain 100s of 000s abortions, how does that fit with with Islamic argument you have presented, unless I am incorrect in terms of the birth/death being pre determined?

If a woman has a baby that a partner doesn't want she shouldn't expect any financial assistance but if a partner doesn't want her to abort will he take the child at birth?

Very easy for men to make such statements as they don't lose 9 months, possible on going complications from the pregnancy etc

I actually looked at the laws that each state is looking to enact after this ruling and found:

-all states have a clause for abortion at any time if the life of the mother is at risk
-Vast majority of states allow for abortion in cases of rape, incest, etc up to a certain point in time
-about half of the Republican controlled states such as Florida are going to put in a 15-20 week time limit during which an elective abortion can take place and after which it has to be an exception
-some of the states (about 5 or less) had no exemption for rape and had a very small window for elective abortion (6 weeks or less)

To me it seems entirely reasonable from a logical point of view and Islamic point of view to have 15-20 week allowance for elective abortions but after which it can only be done for exceptional circumstances.

I'd like to understand what is the argument for an elective abortion after a 20 week gestational period when the baby has a heartbeat (and a soul according to Islamic law)?
 
It isn't the states business if a woman keeps her unborn child or not! No argument you or other make justifies not allowing women to chose what they do.

I hope those cheering this decision are the same who didn't want to get covid vaccines? As it was their choice not too!
I understand but my question still remains what if the man leaves the women after the child is born? Should one of the parent be allowed to kill the child?
 
I keep hearing about "my body, my choice".

Yes. It is your body. It is your choice. However, your choice doesn't override baby's right to live (unless, there is an emergency of course).

Hopefully this will also mean that woman & man getting engaged in unprotected sex will think a million times before proceeding.
 
No I don't think anyone should say who can and can't have children!

But a person without support may not want to keep the child or someone in an abusive relationship and yes some will terminate if doesn't fot their lifestyle at that time.

Then on the hand you have women who terminate due to medical issues or after a miscarriage all these will not be permitted. So is it fair to let a woman die on the process?

A difference between choice to have kids and a choice to abort a child.

The only reason to abort is if the mothers life is at risk or the baby was born out of violence. You claimed cost is a fair reason, this would suggest the poor in Africa should never have kids. Having children is a human right but killing babies is not a right, regardless if its your body.
 
I actually looked at the laws that each state is looking to enact after this ruling and found:

-all states have a clause for abortion at any time if the life of the mother is at risk
-Vast majority of states allow for abortion in cases of rape, incest, etc up to a certain point in time
-about half of the Republican controlled states such as Florida are going to put in a 15-20 week time limit during which an elective abortion can take place and after which it has to be an exception
-some of the states (about 5 or less) had no exemption for rape and had a very small window for elective abortion (6 weeks or less)

To me it seems entirely reasonable from a logical point of view and Islamic point of view to have 15-20 week allowance for elective abortions but after which it can only be done for exceptional circumstances.

I'd like to understand what is the argument for an elective abortion after a 20 week gestational period when the baby has a heartbeat (and a soul according to Islamic law)?

I would say a majority of abortions are within the first 20 weeks and those after that tend to be due medical reasons, such as an unviable pregnancy or maternal health at risk. Trust me no woman would be waiting till after 20 weeks to get an abortion.
 
A difference between choice to have kids and a choice to abort a child.

The only reason to abort is if the mothers life is at risk or the baby was born out of violence. You claimed cost is a fair reason, this would suggest the poor in Africa should never have kids. Having children is a human right but killing babies is not a right, regardless if its your body.

Women may abort a baby if they are having a traumatic pregnancy, due to mental health issues or some kind of additication as I said it very easy for men to say only 2 reasons for abortion. Yes women will abort because it isn't the right tine for them personally.
 
Women may abort a baby if they are having a traumatic pregnancy, due to mental health issues or some kind of additication as I said it very easy for men to say only 2 reasons for abortion. Yes women will abort because it isn't the right tine for them personally.

I understand but my question still remains what if the man leaves the women after the child is born? Should one of the parent be allowed to kill the child?

Many children end up in care when that does happen or a parent just leaves the child to their own devices...
 
Women may abort a baby if they are having a traumatic pregnancy, due to mental health issues or some kind of additication as I said it very easy for men to say only 2 reasons for abortion. Yes women will abort because it isn't the right tine for them personally.

Medical issues are one thing but because its not right for them personally?

Did you miss the part where I showed hundreds of thousands of abortions due to no issues means genocide?
 
Address the elephant in the room - the majority of abortions are the result of wanton sex.

Yup. This is a major issue that needs to be focused on.

Aborting a baby for non-emergency reason is murder.

Here's what Quran has to say:

"And do not kill your children for fear of poverty. We provide for them and for you. Indeed, their killing is ever a great sin." (Quran - 17:31).
 
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Address the elephant in the room - the majority of abortions are the result of wanton sex.

"Roughly 121 million unintended pregnancies occurred each year between 2015 and 2019.*
Of these unintended pregnancies, 61% ended in abortion. This translates to 73 million abortions per year."

https://www.guttmacher.org/fact-sheet/induced-abortion-worldwide

73 Million lives are taken. I would assume at least 65 million were aborted for no other reason apart from not wanting a child.

Most of these are in the so called liberal modern western civilisation.
 
Women may abort a baby if they are having a traumatic pregnancy, due to mental health issues or some kind of additication as I said it very easy for men to say only 2 reasons for abortion. Yes women will abort because it isn't the right tine for them personally.

Yup. This is a major issue that needs to be focused on.

Aborting a baby for non-emergency reason is murder.

Here's what Quran has to say:

"And do not kill your children for fear of poverty. We provide for them and for you. Indeed, their killing is ever a great sin." (Quran - 17:31).

In Islam the soul enters at 120 days which is 17 weeks, therefore islamically they are not "murdering" anyone.

Most abortions happen before that (don't know the exact stats)
 
Women may abort a baby if they are having a traumatic pregnancy, due to mental health issues or some kind of additication as I said it very easy for men to say only 2 reasons for abortion. Yes women will abort because it isn't the right tine for them personally.

"Roughly 121 million unintended pregnancies occurred each year between 2015 and 2019.*
Of these unintended pregnancies, 61% ended in abortion. This translates to 73 million abortions per year."

https://www.guttmacher.org/fact-sheet/induced-abortion-worldwide

73 Million lives are taken. I would assume at least 65 million were aborted for no other reason apart from not wanting a child.

Most of these are in the so called liberal modern western civilisation.

Thanks for the stats....that is assuming that those 73 million would have made it full term. How is it your business or anyone else's if a woman aborts, seriously how does it impact you or all the other men on here telling me what a great day it is for children!
 
Women may abort a baby if they are having a traumatic pregnancy, due to mental health issues or some kind of additication as I said it very easy for men to say only 2 reasons for abortion. Yes women will abort because it isn't the right tine for them personally.

Yes. 120 days is okay in Hanafi madhab. But, the reason has to be a valid reason. Fear of poverty or "not being ready" is not a valid excuse.

See this video for clarification: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6iUY1kks-s&ab_channel=YaqeenInstitute.

What is a valid reason? Rape and incest? Being too sick to complete the pregnancy, being an addict, mental heath issues arising from how to raise the said child.
 
What is a valid reason? Rape and incest? Being too sick to complete the pregnancy, being an addict, mental heath issues arising from how to raise the said child.

Rape and threat to mother's life. These two are valid excuses.

Read below:

Scholars have unanimously agreed that it is impermissible and completely prohibited to conduct an abortion if the age of the fetus has reached 120 days. This is because it is considered killing a soul which Allah has forbidden, except by right. Allah says in the holy Qur`an:

"And do not kill your children out of poverty; We will provide for you and them." [6: 151] and,
"And do not kill the soul which Allah has forbidden, except by right." [17: 33].

Otherwise, scholars have disagreed on the permissibility of abortion if the fetus has not completed 120 days inside its mother's womb. Some of them deemed abortion prohibited and this is the relied upon opinion of the Malikis, Zahiris and some of the Shafi'is.

Other scholars maintained that abortion is absolutely disliked and this is the opinion of some Malikis and others maintained that it is permissible when there is an excuse and this is the opinion of the Hanafis and Shafi'is. According to Hanafis, pregnancy out of wedlock [zina] is a valid excuse for conducting an abortion.

According to the preponderant opinion implemented for fatwa, abortion is absolutely prohibited whether before or after the fetus ensoulment except if there is a necessity permitted in the shari'ah. This necessity is when a trustworthy physician decides that the continuation of pregnancy imposes risk to the mother's life or health. Thereupon, it is permissible to conduct an abortion to preserve the mother's life and keeping the stability of her health since the mother's life takes precedence over the fetus unstable life.

The Islamic Fiqh Assembly of the Muslim World League based in Mecca has decided the following: "If the fetus has reached 120, it is impermissible to conduct an abortion even if it is medically diagnosed with congenital defects. However, if a committee of specialized physicians decided that the continuation of pregnancy imposes risk to the mother's life. In this case, it is permissible to conduct an abortion whether or not the fetus was deformed to undertake the lesser of two harms".

Source: https://www.dar-alifta.org/Foreign/ViewFatwa.aspx?ID=6634.

Also, see this video (about 1 minute long):

 
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Thanks for the stats....that is assuming that those 73 million would have made it full term. How is it your business or anyone else's if a woman aborts, seriously how does it impact you or all the other men on here telling me what a great day it is for children!

How is it your business if a woman aborts?

Seriously, how does an abortion right affect you?

Oh let me guess, cos you are a woman?
 
What is a valid reason? Rape and incest? Being too sick to complete the pregnancy, being an addict, mental heath issues arising from how to raise the said child.

Go pull the other one. Rape and Incest are extenuating circumstances.

Talk to me about wanton sex.
 
Thanks for the stats....that is assuming that those 73 million would have made it full term. How is it your business or anyone else's if a woman aborts, seriously how does it impact you or all the other men on here telling me what a great day it is for children!

Terms are copout. Most will BE born.

What is the reason why killing is wrong? By your logic, a poor person in India can kill his/her child because its her child. Not sure why you are so up for taking the lives of babies?
 
So what if the reason it is due to sex they aren't immaculate conceptions, takes 2 to tango!

Are those men who got them pregnant going to support them through an unwanted pregnancy and then hand the baby over for adoption or is the man himself going to raise it?

All I am saying everyone woman should have the right to make a choice about being a mother or not?

Maybe we should just sterilise men and once they are ready get it reversed a very easy procedure!
 
So what if the reason it is due to sex they aren't immaculate conceptions, takes 2 to tango!

Are those men who got them pregnant going to support them through an unwanted pregnancy and then hand the baby over for adoption or is the man himself going to raise it?

All I am saying everyone woman should have the right to make a choice about being a mother or not
?

Maybe we should just sterilise men and once they are ready get it reversed a very easy procedure!

They do, simply dont have intimate relations.

Not sure why you are raging at men when most abortions are done because the female wants.
 
[MENTION=52972]Salma_T[/MENTION] you are expecting certain posters on this forum to understand mental health? They would probably label it as a “Liberal” problem.
——

I have super strong friends that have undergone Postpartum depression, and they still absolutely love their kids and would probably do it all over again but doesn’t mean everyone should be forced to have a baby.

This should only be women’s choice, absolutely pathetic decision this by SC , lucky for democrats they probably counted on this considering the dire approval ratings of Biden right now.
 
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I don't support Trump. But, I think he did good with supreme court picks.

This reversing abortion ruling was long overdue. It can save millions of babies. I hope it will be reversed in Canada also.
 
Women may abort a baby if they are having a traumatic pregnancy, due to mental health issues or some kind of additication as I said it very easy for men to say only 2 reasons for abortion. Yes women will abort because it isn't the right tine for them personally.

[MENTION=52972]Salma_T[/MENTION] you are expecting certain posters on this forum to understand mental health? They would probably label it as a “Liberal” problem.
——

I have super strong friends that have undergone Postpartum depression, and they still absolutely love their kids and would probably do it all over again but doesn’t mean everyone should be forced to have a baby.

This should only be women’s choice, absolutely pathetic decision this by SC , lucky for democrats they probably counted on this considering the dire approval ratings of Biden right now.

I know!
 
Overall health consequences of a ban on abortion are too much, hence, it should be allowed.
 
So human life is sacrosanct enough for a bunch of old, white men to seize control of women’s bodies.

But not sacrosanct enough to enact gun control laws to protect actual live, born children from being massacred in their classroom?

The US Supreme Court has literally brought contempt upon itself.

And why on earth are people daring to mention religious doctrine in this thread, let alone Islamic doctrine. In advanced countries we have the separation of church and state - religious doctrine is explicitly banned from influencing the law.

It doesn’t matter whether you are Pakistan or Israel or the USA. As soon as you let religion influence the law you literally become Backward.
 
So human life is sacrosanct enough for a bunch of old, white men to seize control of women’s bodies.

But not sacrosanct enough to enact gun control laws to protect actual live, born children from being massacred in their classroom?

The US Supreme Court has literally brought contempt upon itself.

And why on earth are people daring to mention religious doctrine in this thread, let alone Islamic doctrine. In advanced countries we have the separation of church and state - religious doctrine is explicitly banned from influencing the law.

It doesn’t matter whether you are Pakistan or Israel or the USA. As soon as you let religion influence the law you literally become Backward.


Point.

Though regarding religion and law, I would argue that much English case law is based on principles stated in Genesis and Leviticus. Common law Duty of Care, for instance - that goes right back to the Cain and Abel story.
 
With the mid-terms coming up, I think that women are going to come out and vote Democrat in droves.

In which case the Dems could take hold of WH, House and Senate - and Biden could get some stuff done.
 
So human life is sacrosanct enough for a bunch of old, white men to seize control of women’s bodies.

But not sacrosanct enough to enact gun control laws to protect actual live, born children from being massacred in their classroom?

The US Supreme Court has literally brought contempt upon itself.

And why on earth are people daring to mention religious doctrine in this thread, let alone Islamic doctrine. In advanced countries we have the separation of church and state - religious doctrine is explicitly banned from influencing the law.

It doesn’t matter whether you are Pakistan or Israel or the USA. As soon as you let religion influence the law you literally become Backward.

The reason why western civilization is declining is due to secularism.

They were booming in the 1950's when things were driven by faith and conservatism.

Are you okay with killing babies? Non-emergency abortion is just that. It is killing defenseless babies.
 
The reason why western civilization is declining is due to secularism.

They were booming in the 1950's when things were driven by faith and conservatism.

Are you okay with killing babies? Non-emergency abortion is just that. It is killing defenseless babies.

Joke of a post, Western civilization keeps improving because it is Liberal overall.

If it wasn’t for them I highly doubt women would be in workforce.

1950s is when they indirectly killed Turing. They have been their best since 1970s bringing in secularism equality and innovation.
 
Joke of a post, Western civilization keeps improving because it is Liberal overall.

If it wasn’t for them I highly doubt women would be in workforce.

1950s is when they indirectly killed Turing. They have been their best since 1970s bringing in secularism equality and innovation.

Improving? LOL. How?

Crimes have increased. Morality has decreased. Economy is going downhill. They now believe in 100 genders. It is just one abnormal mess.
 
[video]https://www.tzr.io/yarn-clip/8db29d2b-31cc-4497-b6bb-d3b12dbc9c2f[/video]
 
it is very easy to view everything from behind the religious glasses and label them right or wrong. But sometimes you have to make difficult choices and I can tell you this decision is not the right choice.
 
Joke of a post, Western civilization keeps improving because it is Liberal overall.

If it wasn’t for them I highly doubt women would be in workforce.

1950s is when they indirectly killed Turing. They have been their best since 1970s bringing in secularism equality and innovation.

You're talking to a guy who was justifying disowning his female relatives in a thread ages ago
 
You're talking to a guy who was justifying disowning his female relatives in a thread ages ago

Only reason why I may disown a relative is if he/she becomes an apostate. Apostates can be cut off.

Back to topic. Do you support abortion for non-emergency reasons? Non-emergency reasons like poverty or woman "not feeling ready"?
 
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If everytime men had sex, they risked death, physical disability, social shunning, a life altering interruption to their education or career and the sudden life long responsibility for another being, I'd think they'd want a choice in the matter.
 
Improving? LOL. How?

Crimes have increased. Morality has decreased. Economy is going downhill. They now believe in 100 genders. It is just one abnormal mess.

Crime is down compared to previous decades and centuries.

Morality has not decreased. It has changed. Rather than look to some ancient scripture for moral lessons, the new morality is that people should be free to do as they wish as long as they hurt nobody else. Racism, sexism, homophobia and transphobia are the same sin.

Most people have levels of freedom, liberty and wealth unheard of fifty years ago.

What concerns me is the rising inequality, with smaller and smaller numbers of people gaining more and more money, power and influence. This inherently illiberal.
 
Why are people on my social media posting this story with comments like "Hurt", "Angered", "Confused"?

My contacts are not even Americans/Indian-Americans/students in the USA etc.

It seems like a domestic issue in another country oceans away.
 
Why are people on my social media posting this story with comments like "Hurt", "Angered", "Confused"?

My contacts are not even Americans/Indian-Americans/students in the USA etc.

It seems like a domestic issue in another country oceans away.

Are they women? If so, because of sorority. Because the world is so interconnected now. Because an attack on one is an attack on all.
 
Improving? LOL. How?

Crimes have increased. Morality has decreased. Economy is going downhill. They now believe in 100 genders. It is just one abnormal mess.
Life expectancy is up. Infant mortality is minimal. Civilised countries have universal free health care. The workhouse is long gone.

But morality is better too. Nonsense patriarchal control is in decline.

What I consider immoral is people getting married at a crazy young age because failing backward religions restrict sex to marriage.

I consider preferential education of males to be immoral.

I consider male-dominated governments, religions, parliaments and judiciaries to be unrepresentative and illegitimate.

You’re welcome to your morality, but I prefer mine.
 
Only reason why I may disown a relative is if he/she becomes an apostate. Apostates can be cut off.

Back to topic. Do you support abortion for non-emergency reasons? Non-emergency reasons like poverty or woman "not feeling ready"?

I have 2 younger sisters and a mother. I wouldn't abandon any of them if they left Islam.

Your post is a fine example of how religion (alone) doesn't make you a better person. In your case it actually shows your true colours and your inability to think objectively.

We should be united by humanity first before you delve deep into Islamic matters.

Your views and values are clearly not aligned to those of the West, especially Canada. May I ask why did you move from a Muslim country to the West? It just amazes me that after integrating with Canadians you've still failed to leave those archaic views back in the pind.
 
I have 2 younger sisters and a mother. I wouldn't abandon any of them if they left Islam.

Your post is a fine example of how religion (alone) doesn't make you a better person. In your case it actually shows your true colours and your inability to think objectively.

We should be united by humanity first before you delve deep into Islamic matters.

Your views and values are clearly not aligned to those of the West, especially Canada. May I ask why did you move from a Muslim country to the West? It just amazes me that after integrating with Canadians you've still failed to leave those archaic views back in the pind.

Do you think everyone in Canada supports abortion? Are you a 2-year old?
 
Do you think everyone in Canada supports abortion? Are you a 2-year old?

We're discussing your views in re: abandoning your family - as this was brought up in the thread. It was pertinent to mention this in order to highlight your pind mindset.
 
You got to hand it to the Liberals. I mean women who oppose this decision are chanting 'My body, my choice' and the liberals are lapping it up, but when the same was said when Covid 19 vaccines were forced upon us, Liberals came out with the fascist/conspiracy card.

As I repeatedly have said, you never know where you stand with liberals because they themselves have no values or consistency in their beliefs.

Liberalism has destroyed the West, not religion.
 
Only reason why I may disown a relative is if he/she becomes an apostate. Apostates can be cut off.

Back to topic. Do you support abortion for non-emergency reasons? Non-emergency reasons like poverty or woman "not feeling ready"?
You are going on and on about this

Kids can be a bigger responsibility….I was always questioned by this moral objective…..A Pani puri stall wala has 10 kids….now you can question are poor doesnt allowed to have kids…Not if you cannot provide for them responsibly…they have higher probability to make another life suffer which is a greater sin morally IMO

“Not feeling ready” can have many facets which you dong get as you aren't a women. Mentally, physically and financially.
Most of the abortions will be before the 3/4 months period itself. Now someone has quoted that Islam allows abortion till 15-20 weeks??
Heartbeat appears at 3/4 weeks which is when women even doesnt know for sure about pregnancy. So, you logic doesn't make sense based on religion itself which you ve been obsessed with.

And unwanted pregnancies probability is there even with all precautions. Heck, women get pregnant at early ages in US and you want them to raise kids?? First worry about the lives that are already there and then we can worry about foetus.
 
You got to hand it to the Liberals. I mean women who oppose this decision are chanting 'My body, my choice' and the liberals are lapping it up, but when the same was said when Covid 19 vaccines were forced upon us, Liberals came out with the fascist/conspiracy card.

As I repeatedly have said, you never know where you stand with liberals because they themselves have no values or consistency in their beliefs.

Liberalism has destroyed the West, not religion.

Good point.

Get the vaccine or you cant go out to work, to shops , travel. But same people now howling a body is personal choice.

Its interesting nobody has addressed a basic point I made.

500,000 a year a aborted for no other reason but not wanting a child. An open hidden genocide but thats ok for the liberals.
 
You are going on and on about this

Kids can be a bigger responsibility….I was always questioned by this moral objective…..A Pani puri stall wala has 10 kids….now you can question are poor doesnt allowed to have kids…Not if you cannot provide for them responsibly…they have higher probability to make another life suffer which is a greater sin morally IMO

“Not feeling ready� can have many facets which you dong get as you aren't a women. Mentally, physically and financially.
Most of the abortions will be before the 3/4 months period itself. Now someone has quoted that Islam allows abortion till 15-20 weeks??
Heartbeat appears at 3/4 weeks which is when women even doesnt know for sure about pregnancy. So, you logic doesn't make sense based on religion itself which you ve been obsessed with.

And unwanted pregnancies probability is there even with all precautions. Heck, women get pregnant at early ages in US and you want them to raise kids?? First worry about the lives that are already there and then we can worry about foetus.

Maybe they should not have intimate relations, try not being loose and they wont have to kill their own babies? Just a thought
 
Dominic Raab has said he will not back a proposed amendment to the British Bill of Rights which would give women the fundamental right to an abortion.

On Tuesday, Labour MP Stella Creasy announced that she plans to table an amendment to the government's new human rights legislation following the US Supreme Court's decision to overturn Roe v Wade - the landmark decision in 1973 which resulted in abortion being legalised across America.
 
Good point.

Get the vaccine or you cant go out to work, to shops , travel. But same people now howling a body is personal choice.

Its interesting nobody has addressed a basic point I made.

500,000 a year a aborted for no other reason but not wanting a child. An open hidden genocide but thats ok for the liberals.

Yup, but liberals will never let go of the historical murder of Jews and keep reminding us of a genocide that took place almost 80 years ago, and force us to pass an exam on it too!
 
You are going on and on about this

Kids can be a bigger responsibility….I was always questioned by this moral objective…..A Pani puri stall wala has 10 kids….now you can question are poor doesnt allowed to have kids…Not if you cannot provide for them responsibly…they have higher probability to make another life suffer which is a greater sin morally IMO

“Not feeling ready� can have many facets which you dong get as you aren't a women. Mentally, physically and financially.
Most of the abortions will be before the 3/4 months period itself. Now someone has quoted that Islam allows abortion till 15-20 weeks??
Heartbeat appears at 3/4 weeks which is when women even doesnt know for sure about pregnancy. So, you logic doesn't make sense based on religion itself which you ve been obsessed with.

And unwanted pregnancies probability is there even with all precautions. Heck, women get pregnant at early ages in US and you want them to raise kids?? First worry about the lives that are already there and then we can worry about foetus.

Within Islam, different madhab (school of thought) has different opinion regarding abortion. Some say 120 days is the cutoff limit; some say 40 days. Please see this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_abortion#When_abortion_is_permissible.

Also, abortion needs to have a valid excuse. Poverty is not a valid excuse as it is clearly mentioned in the Quran: "And do not kill your children for fear of poverty. We provide for them and for you. Indeed, their killing is ever a great sin." (Al-Quran - 17:31).

Also, see this video:

 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Biden signs executive order to defend abortion access in US <a href="https://t.co/Q45wLlZatc">https://t.co/Q45wLlZatc</a> <a href="https://t.co/LOdMsoAudu">pic.twitter.com/LOdMsoAudu</a></p>— Al Jazeera English (@AJEnglish) <a href="https://twitter.com/AJEnglish/status/1545475303014772736?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 8, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
The next time Republicans come to power, I hope they would reverse it back (along with a few other Democrats' decisions).

Overturning supreme court's decision like this is irresponsible.
 
The next time Republicans come to power, I hope they would reverse it back (along with a few other Democrats' decisions).

Overturning supreme court's decision like this is irresponsible.

What decision of supreme court is overturned?
 
The next time Republicans come to power, I hope they would reverse it back (along with a few other Democrats' decisions).

Overturning supreme court's decision like this is irresponsible.

It makes a mockery of their so called democracy and also of their constitution.

Biden is falling behind, his party is seen a weak. Americans are seeing the start of a huge recession. Mid term elections are due this autumn, Biden is doing this to gain the 'liberal' votes, he did the same with BLM before the general elections. Biden doesnt care for women or babies, he's a warmonger and a tool of the elite.
 
The most important question of all: What is a Woman?Why are people worried about woman rights when they can't even define what a woman is? :inti
 
It makes a mockery of their so called democracy and also of their constitution.

Biden is falling behind, his party is seen a weak. Americans are seeing the start of a huge recession. Mid term elections are due this autumn, Biden is doing this to gain the 'liberal' votes, he did the same with BLM before the general elections. Biden doesnt care for women or babies, he's a warmonger and a tool of the elite.

If US is staring at a huge recession then God help the rest
 
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