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Sachin Tendulkar vs AB de Villiers - The overall complete batsman?

SL_Fan said:
Sachin's WC final scores - 4 & 18.

So let's not go there.
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Sacrificed his wicket in the 2003 final by taking the responsibility to try and unsettle McGrath's bowling.

2011, got off to a start with couple of majestic shots against the swinging new ball under lights. No player can plan big knocks to perfection. His record overall in finals/KOs is probably the best compared to other greats. You should have known before you raised a dumb arguement.
 
Itachi said:
well.... if you want to compare abd with the god of cricket, then you need to set the standard to the utmost perfection.

has abd helped in the cause of RSA winning a world cup?

NO.

compare him with tendulkar when he does.
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one world cup out of how many? plus Sachin is NOT god of cricket. he's god of Indian Cricket and that's a huge difference.

just so all haters don't think I'm a Sachin hater here's my 2 cents: Sachin > ABD
 
Itachi said:
well.... if you want to compare abd with the god of cricket, then you need to set the standard to the utmost perfection.

has abd helped in the cause of RSA winning a world cup?

NO.

compare him with tendulkar when he does.
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AB was the highest scorer, had the best SR, played the most deliveries and hit the most boundaries for his team in the 2015 WC. What more do you want?

Has Tendulker ever won the entire match on his own? It takes the combined efforts of the entire team to win matches. Tendulker has scored most of his centuries in a losing cause yet he is still rated this highly because it was his team that would let him down.

Tendulker did nothing in 2011 WC final and was dropped 4 times in the semi-final. His team responded when he didn't. Tendulker did not win the WC his team did, him and 10 other guys. Had India lost the final would Tendulker be rated any lower? I don't believe so.

AB did not lose the semi-final his team did. Him and 10 other guys.
 
Buffet said:
Without getting into any stats, you have to admit that watching AB brings back the memories of SRT in full flow in 90s. Not talking about bowlers of 90s or AB's ability to play some ridiculous shots here but simply how you feel when watching both bat. I am not discounting stats etc here but we watch sports for fun as well. I agree that AB is still playing and has ways to go but AB does belong in the same class when it comes to talent and capturing the imaginations. I didn't see peak of Viv so can't talk about that.
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I've never been a typical sport fan.
So I've never understood the concept of "capturing imaginations", or getting more excited to a certain style/type of play/player not without context.
Would I consider Sehwag scoring 300 in a day on a phatta "entertaining" than say Cook scoring a patient hundred on a difficult swinging deck? Would I consider KP's dismantling of Steyn more entertaining than Donald vs Atherton?
I don't think so. A player can be as "entertaining" or attacking as he wants but context is what entertains me not the aesthetics.
Very similar to my football, there is nothing I hate more than rubbish defending and to hear fans regarding goal gluts as entertainment.
 
I started watching cricket from 1997 and I can say with conviction Sachin Tendulkar has FINALLY found his match (both tests + ODIs combined).

ABD can be better than Sachin. Its absolutely possible.

GOATS when they perform do it in a magical way.

They DON'T look like getting out.

SRT of 90s (till 2003) was like that and so is ABD now. Even if they got 20 or 30, they would dazzle you and threaten to take the game away before a delivery would get them out all of a sudden leaving the whole stadium stunned with silence.

When you are an absolute great, even your opponents would be dazzled by your performance. That's what happened in case of Sachin and is now happening in case of ABD.

As for finding an answer, its very hard cos the context has changed so much but if we were to sit down and compare, then I feel we should allow ABD to complete his career or get more sample set. He has been a SUPERMAN from 2010 and I consider myself to be very lucky for being able to witness the MOST INNOVATIVE AND DESTRUCTIVE batsman in the history of the game.

ABD is simply sensational.

As for the "did ABD win SA a World Cup" argument is concerned, its a weak argument.

ABD has performed in WC KOs and has been let down by his team.
 
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freelance_cricketer said:
Sacrificed his wicket in the 2003 final by taking the responsibility to try and unsettle McGrath's bowling.

2011, got off to a start with couple of majestic shots against the swinging new ball under lights. No player can plan big knocks to perfection. His record overall in finals/KOs is probably the best compared to other greats. You should have known before you raised a dumb arguement.
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Don’t have a cry now. Who's talking about big knocks here. You don’t help win a WC when you completely flop in the final. Thought even someone like you could understand such a simple thing. Obviously not.
 
Fahdi said:
Tendulker did not win the WC his team did, him and 10 other guys. Had India lost the final would Tendulker be rated any lower? I don't believe so.

AB did not lose the semi-final his team did. Him and 10 other guys.
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Pretty much this. Cricket is a team game but many PPers mix team performance with individual performance.
 
Buffet said:
Without getting into any stats, you have to admit that watching AB brings back the memories of SRT in full flow in 90s. Not talking about bowlers of 90s or AB's ability to play some ridiculous shots here but simply how you feel when watching both bat. I am not discounting stats etc here but we watch sports for fun as well. I agree that AB is still playing and has ways to go but AB does belong in the same class when it comes to talent and capturing the imaginations. I didn't see peak of Viv so can't talk about that.
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I love watching AB bat. No doubt about it. However, my only grouse is that, with so many out of the box shots that he has, we hardly see him playing those in crunch situations. For e.g. Will AB play a ramp shot in a knock out match, chasing 300 plus. No i don't think so. I saw him bat against India, and he got run out a bit too early,s o did not get a chance. He batted first against WI and showed his full armory. Then again, I do not recollect him playing that shot against Pakistan or NZ in this WC. So come to think of it, apart from proper cricketing strokes, his percentage shots are some which he is slightly apprehensive to execute in a knockout game. Whereas, Sachin, only played conventional strokes and relied more on placement.

I don't think we should compare 2 players so vastly different like AB and Sachin, however, I am sure AB, if you remove his percentage shots, would still be a phenomenal player. The only point i want to make is that, once you remove those scoop and ramp shots, and stick to conventional shots, he is not light years ahead, but a few miles ahead of contemporaries.
 
What does match winning skills have to do with a batsman's ability to bat? You can't say that just because Sachin has few match winning innings, he didn't have much of an impact on his team.
 
ABD is set to take over Sachin/Lara imo. His next couple of years will decide where he ends, he's already an ATG for me though. If he can end up as the best ever, we'll have to see.
 
ABD need not match SRT's longevity but he needs to play more and be consistent (even if not at this Godly level) for a longer period for a proper analysis.

But aura wise and impact wise, ABD is right up there.

When you watch ABD, you can forget stats and know FOR SURE, you are watching someone truly magical.
 
Check out these numbers. Out of this world! Not to mention he kept wickets in a third of those Tests as well and still averaged around 61 doing so. Also have a look at the year by year averages. Jaw-dropping numbers. If this guy was an Indian, Englishman or an Aussie I'm sure he'd already be touted as the best bat since the great Don.

Tests v Top 7 since 2008

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...8;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

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ODIs v Top 7 since 2008

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...8;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

Screen%20Shot%202015-05-12%20at%2012.12.29%20am_zpsi0awxcq9.png
 
EliteCynical said:
I love watching AB bat. No doubt about it. However, my only grouse is that, with so many out of the box shots that he has, we hardly see him playing those in crunch situations. For e.g. Will AB play a ramp shot in a knock out match, chasing 300 plus. No i don't think so. I saw him bat against India, and he got run out a bit too early,s o did not get a chance. He batted first against WI and showed his full armory. Then again, I do not recollect him playing that shot against Pakistan or NZ in this WC. So come to think of it, apart from proper cricketing strokes, his percentage shots are some which he is slightly apprehensive to execute in a knockout game. Whereas, Sachin, only played conventional strokes and relied more on placement.

I don't think we should compare 2 players so vastly different like AB and Sachin, however, I am sure AB, if you remove his percentage shots, would still be a phenomenal player. The only point i want to make is that, once you remove those scoop and ramp shots, and stick to conventional shots, he is not light years ahead, but a few miles ahead of contemporaries.
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That's why I didn't really considered that point as a focal point in my post. Players are byproduct of their environment . With advent of T-20 games, you see different kind of catches and different kind of batting. There was no need to even try those shots in older era.

Also, AB has developed those shots due to T-20, he didn't used to play all those shots earlier with same success. So I get your point but I wasn't really giving extra points to AB for those shots in my post. I was simply talking about how you feel when he comes out to bat. There is a buzz and it used to be the same with SRT in late 90s.

Forget about all details. Right now most cricket fans won't want to miss a period when AB is batting. It was the same situation in 90s with SRT in full flow. Sure, I wasn't comparing them in terms of achievements. SRT is too far ahead in that but cricket is not only about runs or wickets. It's also about how much excitement you feel when watching certain players perform. We shouldn't forget that sports is meant for entertainment.
 
AB possibly hinting a move up to no3?

http://www.espncricinfo.com/indian-premier-league-2015/content/story/873779.html

"I have always wanted to play at the top of the order," de Villiers told iplt20.com after his century in Mumbai led Royal Challengers to a 39-run win. "From the day I started playing T20 cricket I always wanted to bat in the top three and I am very thankful for the fact that Royal Challengers Bangalore has given me the chance to bat at three now."
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Buffet said:
He should give a try to 3rd spot in ODI and T-20 for SA. He can try to control the game from the start. Sure, SA will be in trouble few times when he gets out cheaply but best batsmen facing more deliveries in limited overs makes sense to me. If it doesn't work well for SA then he can go back to older spots.
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Yeah especially when he's in this sort of freakish run of form. Maybe a move up to no4 in Tests as well now that he has given up keeping.
 
Buffet said:
That's why I didn't really considered that point as a focal point in my post. Players are byproduct of their environment . With advent of T-20 games, you see different kind of catches and different kind of batting. There was no need to even try those shots in older era.

Also, AB has developed those shots due to T-20, he didn't used to play all those shots earlier with same success. So I get your point but I wasn't really giving extra points to AB for those shots in my post. I was simply talking about how you feel when he comes out to bat. There is a buzz and it used to be the same with SRT in late 90s.

Forget about all details. Right now most cricket fans won't want to miss a period when AB is batting. It was the same situation in 90s with SRT in full flow. Sure, I wasn't comparing them in terms of achievements. SRT is too far ahead in that but cricket is not only about runs or wickets. It's also about how much excitement you feel when watching certain players perform. We shouldn't forget that sports is meant for entertainment.
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Absolutely agree. The thing is and this is a personal opinion, that when Sachin used to bat, you knew he would get out at some point and wanted to get as much as possible of him. There was sense of excitement (more nervousness, if you were Indian). The thing with AB is that you know he would not get out. Only HE has to commit a mistake to get out. Somehow goes into a 'God Mode', once he is in full flow. I would still want AB to play his percentage shots in crunch situations.
 
Sachin of course.. and I'm not a fan of him.. ABD in his first 3-4 years is pretty average or below average batsman, he keeps his place in the team only bcz of fielding.. also he can play 360 degree bcz of 70 meter boundaries and thick bats, so his mishits mostly clear the boundaries
 
Smbhayi said:
Sachin of course.. and I'm not a fan of him.. ABD in his first 3-4 years is pretty average or below average batsman, he keeps his place in the team only bcz of fielding.. also he can play 360 degree bcz of 70 meter boundaries and thick bats, so his mishits mostly clear the boundaries
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when it comes to sixes on any ground im sure he will out smack sachin
 
Smbhayi said:
and his mishits will be caught in previous era..
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the point here is who can hit more? lets just discuss facts...if you scroll up you'll notice my post that states sachin > abd...but when it comes to pure hitting..sachin cannot match abd.
 
I have seen Lara play and his style of playing was never meant for OdI format. He used to play really slow in the beginning then become more aggressive once get settled. This really don't work in OdI since you have to keep the scoreboard ticking from the beginning.
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That's not true at all. I've seen 90 percent of his ODI innings live. He was playing what we think of as normal 21st century ODI innings way back in the early 90s. He bashed around minnows T20 style (several centuries in 45-60ish balls) and played top teams with the right blend of aggression and caution. Lara was the only player on his West Indies ODI team who had a clue how to pace an innings. But from 2003ish onwards, the West Indies ODI team sucked (Chanderpaul and Sarwan hogged balls and Samuels was a moron) and Lara was useless batting low down the order, often forced to slog. This affected his stats and confuses people who never saw him play. He was a great ODI batsman.

Look at the strike rates and some of those strong attacks:

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/65858.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/65956.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/64424.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/64491.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/65958.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/65863.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/64491.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/65863.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/65188.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/64523.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/65549.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/64626.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/65604.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/65235.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/64847.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/65663.html
 
ABD can be better than Sachin. Its absolutely possible.
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I think ABD is already a better ODI batsman - in terms of technique, ability and skills - than everyone who has ever played ODI cricket.

He is like a synthesis of all the skills possessed by all previous generations. But you cannot compare across eras. Sports evolve. Humans evolve. No Sachin = no ABDV. ABDV is a giant standing upon giants.

The one big thing ABDV has going against him, in discussions like this, is the bowling attacks he faced. Generally, they've been pretty dire. How he performs in the next two years versus a strong New Zealand, Australia and England will determine his place in cricket. I don't see Pak, Ind and Sri Lanka putting together deadly bowling attacks soon, and the West Indies' bowling attacks in ODIs have been atrocious over the past few years (though it looks to be getting better).
 
His peak imo is better than any player i saw playing.Even if he degrades from today his peak is just in a diff dimension at least for me.
 
SRT for me right now, but ABD might overtake him in some years (ODIs). Cannot say the same for Kohli with surety.
 
I think he has already surpassed every batsman except viv in LOIs. if he can going 3-4 years like this, he will surpass viv.
 
Abd would be considered the 2nd best batsman after Bradman at this point in career if he was playing for big three ??? Let's keep your desperate, angry, bitter urge to downgrade SRT at any cost to yourself and have an honest discussion for once..
Thank you!!
 
some may call sachin is greater, same may call abd is greater based upon their choice. it is very close call.
 
ABD is a fantastic player and so was Sachin. This is why I have problems with comparing players of different eras. Even though Sachin played along with ABD in the final stages of his career, his peak in both forms of the game was in the 90's. Sir Viv played in an era where ODI SR of 60 was considered brilliant. To prove the point, Desmond Haynes and Gordon Greenidge considered as hard hitting opening combination during Viv's time had a SR of 63 and 64 respectively. Dean Jones (fantastic Australian ODI batsman) had a SR of 72 debuting in the 80's. The SR of 72 was considered brilliant during that time. So Viv's SR and average combination in the 70's and 80's is hard to ignore. In the 90's to predominantly a SR of 65-70 was considered as brilliant and few players struck at more than 75. Thats the reason Sachin who had a SR of 86 with an average of 44 was brilliant.

Next comes the bowling attacks. Sachin played a plethora of great fast bowlers and spin bowlers in the 90's on grounds which were huge. The Australian boundaries was so big that hitting 4's wasn't that easy, forget about hitting sixes. We talk about McGrath, Ambrose, Akram, Younis, Shane Warne etc..But even bowling like Bruce Reid, Brett Schultz, Merv Hughes, Craig McDermott et all who weren't ATG's had more quality than most of the bowlers in this era and that too on pitches which weren't this flat.

Similar to Sachin, Viv played the great Pakistan bowlers, Australian bowlers, Hadlee, English bowlers et all on pitches which weren't easy to bat on. So it is hard for us to just wake up and say that one batsman is better than the other. Even though we know that ABD is brilliant, it is hard to predict how each would have batted if they had been in that era. There is no way to know how viv would have batted against the current bowling attacks on such batting wickets with small boundaries. Also there is no way to know if ABD would have been able to play the scoop shot to Michael Holding or Joel Garner in the peaks. This is the reason we should not call one player better than the other. Even to imagine someone trying to scoop Joel Garner to fine leg is a scary thought :).

So let us just enjoy watching these players and there is no need for them to be better than the other. Sachin was a great, so was Viv and so is ABD. Unless and until we can place them in that era against the same bowlers and same pitches we cannot say that one is better than the other. You never know Viv might average 70 with a SR of 120 in this era, considering his average of 47 at 90 in a era where 55-60 was average SR approximately.
 
Richards was not a complete batsmen , Ponting was not even close to one .

Tandulkar was the most complete or atleast close to complete imo , but thats till I saw AB play . Am talking about what they have achived as players , but purely based on ability No batsmen had so much control overs his game as Tendulkar did , AB would be a touch better .
 
Chrish said:
Abd would be considered the 2nd best batsman after Bradman at this point in career if he was playing for big three ??? Let's keep your desperate, angry, bitter urge to downgrade SRT at any cost to yourself and have an honest discussion for once..
Thank you!!
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SL_Fan said:
If this guy was an Indian, Englishman or an Aussie I'm sure he'd already be touted as the best bat since the great Don.
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Touted. If you don't know the meaning of it look it up.
 
TestMatch said:
That's not true at all. I've seen 90 percent of his ODI innings live. He was playing what we think of as normal 21st century ODI innings way back in the early 90s. He bashed around minnows T20 style (several centuries in 45-60ish balls) and played top teams with the right blend of aggression and caution. Lara was the only player on his West Indies ODI team who had a clue how to pace an innings. But from 2003ish onwards, the West Indies ODI team sucked (Chanderpaul and Sarwan hogged balls and Samuels was a moron) and Lara was useless batting low down the order, often forced to slog. This affected his stats and confuses people who never saw him play. He was a great ODI batsman.

Look at the strike rates and some of those strong attacks:

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/65858.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/65956.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/64424.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/64491.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/65958.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/65863.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/64491.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/65863.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/65188.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/64523.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/65549.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/64626.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/65604.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/65235.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/64847.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/65663.html
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I have followed Lara's career closely as well and rarely missed out an inning starting from late 90s as I was a big fan. What you have gathered here are selective stats from his long career. But the fact remains at least for later half of his career, he was just average in ODI (by his standard anyways). I have seen him play so I don't need to look at the stats to know that he wasn't an ODI great. Of course playing for a crap team like WI didn't help his cause.. But he himself wasn't exceptional either. Often times he had a difficulty getting settled and was too damn slow in the process. At that time, players were required to keep scoring at healthy run rates since there were no power plays around for slog-fest in last 10 overs. And I had seen Lara failed plenty of times in building up an inning.

The same way I don't need to look at Gangualy's stats to know that he wasn't a great Test batsman. I have seen him play and I could clearly see he wasn't even a decent test player unlike his average of 42.17 might suggest.
 
Statsman said:
SRT for me right now, but ABD might overtake him in some years (ODIs). Cannot say the same for Kohli with surety.
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People are underestimating Kohli on this forum.. While in atm he can't be compared with ABD, he has a lot of time on his side. He averaged 68.00 in two test against SA.. Performed fabulously against Australia.. Even if the wickets were flat, how many batsman have capability to score 4 tons against OZ in Australia??? Not many I am sure.

He seems too good of a player to average just 13 in England.. I certainly expect him to turn it around in future tours. He is like a batsman version of Ambrose.. Has a fiery temperament and needs the hate for the opposition as a motivation factor.

All in all, Steve Smith and Kohli are the two bats who might challenge Abd in future. Matthews has a potential too but he has been in terrible form lately. Also, things will get lot more difficult for him after retirement of two key players.
 
They are so similar in many ways.

Best players of their respective generation.

Pathetic Captains.

Known for bottling in crunch situations (which I disagree in SRT's case)

Both are very timid and somewhat cowardly.

Their biggest ambition was/is to win the WC which proved/ is proving to be a long wait.

Fortunately :srt will have no regrets.Cant say the same about :ab
 
How can any one call abdv a bottler despite his stellar performance in wc knockouts? He simoly has no weakness at the moment. The only downside he had till around 2010 that he had a habit of scoring tons in dead rubbers. However, he has gone well beyond that to establish himself as a clutch player too now.
 
Yeah, before around 2011-12, he used to score lots of runs in dead matches and in downhill skiing situations. He always had the ability to play great knocks, but in the last 4 years or so, he's started doing it very regularly.
 
SL_Fan said:
Don’t have a cry now. Who's talking about big knocks here. You don’t help win a WC when you completely flop in the final. Thought even someone like you could understand such a simple thing. Obviously not.
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Huh ? what the hell are you on about... Had SRT not played the innings he played against Aus during the preliminary rounds before the WC final India might not have made it to the final. He def helped India win the WC.. Case closed MR SOUR GRAPE....
 
since people are going off topic how far should we thread in that line?
Do we perhaps bring series wins in difficult places like SA and Australia as both tests and odi's are discussed?
I guess that won't suit certain agendas.
 
soso_killer said:
since people are going off topic how far should we thread in that line?
Do we perhaps bring series wins in difficult places like SA and Australia as both tests and odi's are discussed?
I guess that won't suit certain agendas.
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For an SC batsman a series win (ODI or Test) in Aus/SA would be the ultimate thing.

For an Aus/SA batsman i guess the equivalent would be a win in Ind/SL, but historically Ind/SL have not even come close to producing the bowling class of Aus/SA.
 
soso_killer said:
since people are going off topic how far should we thread in that line?
Do we perhaps bring series wins in difficult places like SA and Australia as both tests and odi's are discussed?
I guess that won't suit certain agendas.
Click to expand...
That is a bit of an agenda on your part.Judge a Saffer batsman in AUS and SA in his home like conditions.
 
No comparison at all. One was a selfish batsman who played for his milestones, other is an unselfish genius who plays for the teams cause.
 
Scrolln said:
How can any one call abdv a bottler despite his stellar performance in wc knockouts? He simoly has no weakness at the moment. The only downside he had till around 2010 that he had a habit of scoring tons in dead rubbers. However, he has gone well beyond that to establish himself as a clutch player too now.
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He has played only 3 wc knock-outs and has scored one fifty in them.

He hasn't bottled it with the bat but definitely has with running b/w wickets and missing easy run-outs.

Although I agree he has played many clutch knocks outside of WC KOs.
 
fringe playa said:
He has played only 3 wc knock-outs and has scored one fifty in them.

He hasn't bottled it with the bat but definitely has with running b/w wickets and missing easy run-outs.

Although I agree he has played many clutch knocks outside of WC KOs.
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Faf ran him out in the 2011 WC, he didn't run himself out. Faf actually has a tendency of running people out.
 
Romali_rotti said:
Huh ? what the hell are you on about... Had SRT not played the innings he played against Aus during the preliminary rounds before the WC final India might not have made it to the final. He def helped India win the WC.. Case closed MR SOUR GRAPE....
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Getting to the final doesn’t win you a WC last time I checked. And flopping in the WC final certainly doesn’t help the team win a WC either. Common sense I would have thought.
 
SL_Fan said:
Getting to the final doesn’t win you a WC last time I checked. And flopping in the WC final certainly doesn’t help the team win a WC either. Common sense I would have thought.
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Common sense is something you dont seem to have. Had Inzi not played the innings vs NZ the game before final Pakistan would not have a WC right now either... Stop now, you are making yourself look silly..
 
Romali_rotti said:
Common sense is something you dont seem to have. Had Inzi not played the innings vs NZ the game before final Pakistan would not have a WC right now either... Stop now, you are making yourself look silly..
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Now Inzi is a different case. Yes he did help Pak win the WC. He performed in the semi AND the final. Now do you get it?
 
SL_Fan said:
Now Inzi is a different case. Yes he did help Pak win the WC. He performed in the semi AND the final. Now do you get it?
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Had Inzi not performed in the Semi Pakistan would not have won the WC, get it ? Oh yeah and onto the final it was a team effort that won Pakistan the match not INZI...
 
WC performances shouldn't be brought in every single time unless it's an extreme case like Hashim Amla. Abd certainly hasn't been a certified failure like Amla
 
EliteCynical said:
I love watching AB bat. No doubt about it. However, my only grouse is that, with so many out of the box shots that he has, we hardly see him playing those in crunch situations. For e.g. Will AB play a ramp shot in a knock out match, chasing 300 plus. No i don't think so. I saw him bat against India, and he got run out a bit too early,s o did not get a chance. He batted first against WI and showed his full armory. Then again, I do not recollect him playing that shot against Pakistan or NZ in this WC. So come to think of it, apart from proper cricketing strokes, his percentage shots are some which he is slightly apprehensive to execute in a knockout game. Whereas, Sachin, only played conventional strokes and relied more on placement.

I don't think we should compare 2 players so vastly different like AB and Sachin, however, I am sure AB, if you remove his percentage shots, would still be a phenomenal player. The only point i want to make is that, once you remove those scoop and ramp shots, and stick to conventional shots, he is not light years ahead, but a few miles ahead of contemporaries.
Click to expand...

Playing 360 degree shots is overrated. Maxwell plays unorthodox strokes as good as or even better than Abd.. But in the end, he is still a hack ( from what we have seen so far anyways)..
 
AB is a sublime cricketer. Incredibly attacking batsman with all the shots in the book. With every passing day in the last 2 to 3 years he has been getting closer and closer to Tendulkar and I think AB is now on a similar level to the peak Tendulkar. I would understand if someone ranked AB slightly above or vice versa. Tendulkar has so many records but I just wonder what could have been if he had the mindset of AB De Villers...India had the ability to win so much more but underachieved massively due to Sachin's thirst for records at the expense of teams overall success. Such a shame :L.
 
AB can play in the first,second,third,fourth and fifth gears as he pleases. Sachin could play in the second, third and fourth gears. Thus, I think AB has two extra gears compared to Sachin. Viv too did not have the first gear, so AB is technically more complete than Viv also. I suppose Viv and Sachin could never play a 30(200) kind of knock, even to save their lives. AB looks like a clone of players like Sachin, Lara, Viv and Dravid assembled together! Since AB is through with only 2/3rd of his career, he needs to hold on to his game for a few more years before we can discuss whether he is ahead of Viv and Sachin. As of now, I surely think he will surpass both Viv and Sachin, though his achievements may not receive the same acknowledgement.
 
ABD hasn't done anything of a note in a big match or series or tournament yet. Would fail to make my top ten ODIs batters list. Not surprisingly, Kohli makes it already.
 
SL_Fan said:
Check out these numbers. Out of this world! Not to mention he kept wickets in a third of those Tests as well and still averaged around 61 doing so. Also have a look at the year by year averages. Jaw-dropping numbers. If this guy was an Indian, Englishman or an Aussie I'm sure he'd already be touted as the best bat since the great Don.

Tests v Top 7 since 2008

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...8;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

Screen%20Shot%202015-05-12%20at%2012.09.10%20am_zpswtitqcbl.png


ODIs v Top 7 since 2008

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...8;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

Screen%20Shot%202015-05-12%20at%2012.12.29%20am_zpsi0awxcq9.png
Click to expand...



Its been an awful batting era, even Sangakkara averages similar i think.
 
freelance_cricketer said:
ABD hasn't done anything of a note in a big match or series or tournament yet. Would fail to make my top ten ODIs batters list. Not surprisingly, Kohli makes it already.
Click to expand...

Not suprisingly at all, given your past record and extreme defensive mentality whenever 'God' is questioned or compared to anyone.

I must say it's a pity how a former excellent poster like you transformed into a useless and annoying troll. Sad.
 
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freelance_cricketer said:
ABD hasn't done anything of a note in a big match or series or tournament yet. Would fail to make my top ten ODIs batters list. Not surprisingly, Kohli makes it already.
Click to expand...

Wow, that is simply delusional if you actually believe your first sentence :)). Also, if I didn't know that you are a certified troll, I would be surprised that AB is not in your top 10 ODI batsmen list. Clearly, you are insecure that people will rate him above Sachin due to his attacking nature and match winning ability. He is an absolutely devastating batsman and is the keystone to Sourh Africa's success in recent years. It's a shame that Sachin only cared for records as otherwise India may have seen similar success to AD's side.
 
The Paradox said:
Not suprisingly at all, given your past record and extreme defensive mentality whenever 'God' is questioned or compared to anyone.

I must say it's a pity how a former excellent poster like you transformed into a useless and annoying troll. Sad.
Click to expand...


Agreed, it is a delusional post. Looking at it from a neutral point of view, I appreciate Tendulkars run scoring prowess. However, De Villers is simply a freak of nature. Sachin cannot dream of playing as attacking as AB does. If he tried, his beloved average would drop significantly. Which is why he often played slower to reach personal milestones. At their respective peaks, I feel that they are on the same level in Tests. Peak AB Is arguably a superior ODI batsman. If I was an Indian, I would be disappointed that Sachin robbed my country of numerous victories as a result of selfish record chasing :L
 
freelance_cricketer said:
ABD hasn't done anything of a note in a big match or series or tournament yet. Would fail to make my top ten ODIs batters list. Not surprisingly, Kohli makes it already.
Click to expand...

What has Kohli done so far in big matches? Now don't take all random matches as big match just because Kohli made big runs in them.
 
freelance_cricketer said:
Its been an awful batting era, even Sangakkara averages similar i think.
Click to expand...

Sanga is next only to Bradman because his pure bat average is 70+ and that's the only valid reflection of his batsman-ship. Whatever he did before that is meaningless and shouldn't be counted :yk2
 
AB is a vastly superior version, if he can perform like a freak that he is for a few more years, everyone will unanimously agree.

Except maybe sachinistas like freelance.
 
IndianWillow said:
AB can play in the first,second,third,fourth and fifth gears as he pleases. Sachin could play in the second, third and fourth gears. Thus, I think AB has two extra gears compared to Sachin. Viv too did not have the first gear, so AB is technically more complete than Viv also. I suppose Viv and Sachin could never play a 30(200) kind of knock, even to save their lives. AB looks like a clone of players like Sachin, Lara, Viv and Dravid assembled together! Since AB is through with only 2/3rd of his career, he needs to hold on to his game for a few more years before we can discuss whether he is ahead of Viv and Sachin. As of now, I surely think he will surpass both Viv and Sachin, though his achievements may not receive the same acknowledgement.
Click to expand...

There was no fifth gear in Sachin's time or even a fourth gear in Viv Richards' time. So you can't expect them to play like that if it was practically impossible in those times.

As for the 33 in 220 innings, I feel that it is very overrated. It was a great innings to secure a draw. du Plessis faced way more deliveries and scored a lot more runs (defending all the time requires a lot of patience, but defending and scoring some runs requires more skill in general). Now that particular knock doesn't give du Plessis an "advantage" over Sachin or Viv Richards just because they never played that type of innings. Also that innings was against Hilfenhaus, Siddle and Lyon. Such innings would be much more difficult against the more difficult bowling attacks that Sachin/Viv faced (and against weaker bowling attacks their teams didn't have to bat out for a draw at all).
 
as-95 said:
Wow, that is simply delusional if you actually believe your first sentence :)). Also, if I didn't know that you are a certified troll, I would be surprised that AB is not in your top 10 ODI batsmen list. Clearly, you are insecure that people will rate him above Sachin due to his attacking nature and match winning ability. He is an absolutely devastating batsman and is the keystone to Sourh Africa's success in recent years. It's a shame that Sachin only cared for records as otherwise India may have seen similar success to AD's side.
Click to expand...

Rubbish statement because despite having a "record-hunting" Sachin, India achieved far more in ODIs than what South Africa can even dream of.
 
freelance_cricketer said:
Its been an awful batting era, even Sangakkara averages similar i think.
Click to expand...

Chrish said:
Sanga is next only to Bradman because his pure bat average is 70+ and that's the only valid reflection of his batsman-ship. Whatever he did before that is meaningless and shouldn't be counted :yk2
Click to expand...

Yet Sachin averaged just 47. You know 6 runs/dismissal less than both Sanga and AB. Sad face :(

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...0;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

Screen%20Shot%202015-07-26%20at%2011.30.38%20am_zps5f9wyb9h.png
 
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