Shakib Al Hasan overrated as an all-rounder?

[Buffet]

Disagree with u since ur logic didn't make any sense to me. Why does a player need to be consistent in one single skill and be in the top 10 in batting or bowling ranking when we r taking about a pure all rounder?

If you are not consistent enough in any skill then why will anyone call you an ATG? Entertaining, versatile, balanced all rounder, good player and some other tag will be enough.

Being in the top 3-4 for an extended period is needed if we are just talking about ATG bowler or ATG batsman. For all rounder you can drop it to top 10. If you can't even be in top 10 in any skill, then we are simply trying to stretch the definition of ATG here.

I have not looked at retrospective rank of all ATG all rounders, but I am very sure that they were one of the best in one skill for an extended period. Being above average in both skills can makes you a balanced all rounder, but not really an ATG.

 

[Buffet]

Disagree with u since ur logic didn't make any sense to me. Why does a player need to be consistent in one single skill and be in the top 10 in batting or bowling ranking when we r taking about a pure all rounder?


What u were describing in ur post was the characteristics of a batting or bowling all rounder. A bowling all rounder will naturally find himself in the list of top 10 batters while won't be anywhere near in the list of top 10 batsman whereas a bowling all rounder will make easily to the top 10 bowlers list but won't be get into the top 10 batters list. But here we r talking about shakib who's a pure all rounder, which means that he isn't the best in either of the department individually rather good at both departments.

Let's take your example,

Kapil was a bowling all rounder.

He reached to rank 2 in test bowling in 1980 and except for few months remained in the top 10 till he retired. His weaker skill was batting and he was in rank 20s for an extended period.

Now Shakib maintained ranking in 20s in batting better than Kapil but it's not like Shakib was performing at another level, but Kapil was at another level in bowling.

Botham was fantastic in his first 50 tests in batting and bowling both. If we are simply talking about pure all rounder, then his that period despite many limitations was one of the best all round performance in history.

If Shakib was genuinely good as Botham in both skills then it would be different situation, Shakib is simply not consistent in any skill. Genuine all rounder for sure, but not an ATG by any logic.

 

[Buffet]

Shakib is way more than a bits and pieces player and way less than the best batsman or best bowler in the world.

Perfectly put.

 

[RainMan_]

Let's take your example,

Kapil was a bowling all rounder.

He reached to rank 2 in test bowling in 1980 and except for few months remained in the top 10 till he retired. His weaker skill was batting and he was in rank 20s for an extended period.

Don't actually care about how long kapil remained in the top ten as a bowler. U can create ur own personal criteria and make ur own personal list of best all rounder. But that doesn't necessarily make it universal.

If a bowler like kapil with a sub par bowling average of 27 and 30 in odis and tests respectively can remain in the top 10 for the majority of his career, then I can easily get an idea about the quality of his contemporaries. Obviously kapil was nowhere near as good of an all rounder as u r trying to make him out to be.

Now Shakib maintained ranking in 20s in batting better than Kapil but it's not like Shakib was performing at another level, but Kapil was at another level in bowling.

Shakib is also performing at an another level. Find me a all rounder who has performed as consistently as shakib with both bat and ball in every single format.

Find me a all-rounder who has taken five wickets and scored above 100 in a single test match as many times as shakib has done in his career.

Fact is, he's unbelievably good. But since he plays for a weaker team that doesn't win many matches, his performance usually goes unnoticed.

Botham was fantastic in his first 50 tests in batting and bowling both. If we are simply talking about pure all rounder, then his that period despite many limitations was one of the best all round performance in history.

If Shakib was genuinely good as Botham in both skills then it would be different situation, Shakib is simply not consistent in any skill. Genuine all rounder for sure, but not an ATG by any logic.

Of course Botham us an atg all rounder. Never disregarded that fact.

But so is shakib Al hasan. With bat and ball Shakib is as consistent as any of the other atg all rounders were in their career. U simply can't have an average of 40 with the bat, 30 with the ball in both of the formats and have 16 odd fifers if u aren't consistent.

 

[SL_Fan]

The guy is a genuine all-rounder in all formats of the game. Very much a rare breed. Unfortunately tho not every team/player gets the same opportunities. For those outside the top 3/4 teams it's tough to make a name for yourself and playing for a side like BD obviously it's even tougher. Had he played for one of the big four pretty sure he would have been right up there.

 

[giri26]

Shakib is for sure a very good all-rounder but not sure if he is an ATG. BD gets very less opportunities to tour top test nations and I was very disappointed that he decided to skip that series. BD got a hiding of a lifetime there but he does continue to play in various T20 leagues.

 

[barah_admi]

They scored 130 runs off him, so what. Look at the no of overs he bowled in that match, look at the type of pitch on which the match was played on, look at the no of wickets he took and then compare it to the performance of other subcontinental spinners who played there in the past.

It was great performance. Easily one of the best by any subcontinental spinner.

You said he decimated them, a team that scores almost 450 is not decimated. I dont think you actually watch cricket or have any interest in an unbiased discussion.

 

[Buffet]

You said he decimated them, a team that scores almost 450 is not decimated. I dont think you actually watch cricket or have any interest in an unbiased discussion.

I personally think that expectations from BD players are so low that a very good players are argued as an ATG without putting consistent performance.

 

[Buffet]

Consistency is the reason for players like KP not making the cut, otherwise KP had everything which an ATG players will have.

 

[Hasan123]

He isn't overrated but he isn't at ATG.

 

[Buffet]

He isn't overrated but he isn't at ATG.

Another disadvantage going for him very less test cricket played by BD and then he took a break from tour like SA which was a disaster for BD. It's not that he would have won games on his own, but no one likes to see best player of opposition taking a break and then opposition not making single game competitive.

 

[Hasan123]

Another disadvantage going for him very less test cricket played by BD and then he took a break from tour like SA which was a disaster for BD. It's not that he would have won games on his own, but no one likes to see best player of opposition taking a break and then opposition not making single game competitive.

Yes he should have played that series to see what he can do against the best. Performing in that series could have elevated him.

 

[RainMan_]

You said he decimated them, a team that scores almost 450 is not decimated. I dont think you actually watch cricket or have any interest in an unbiased discussion.

Of course he decimated south african batting lineup every time he played against them. But u have a preconceived wrong idea about him which isn't allowing u to see the true picture even though I have already presented u ample evidence.


South Africa has always been a tough place for subcontinental spinners. Even genuine top class spinners like Saqlain Mostak, Ashwin, Kumble and herath got tonked around every time they played in southafrica and none of them were anywhere near as successful as Shakib was.


There is a reason why Shakib has an average of 20 over there with two five wicket haul. I won't even go into details since Shakib's performance as a spinner in southafrica is so much better than the other subcontinental spinners that its almost pointless to even talk about it.

 

[RainMan_]

Shakib is for sure a very good all-rounder but not sure if he is an ATG. BD gets very less opportunities to tour top test nations and I was very disappointed that he decided to skip that series. BD got a hiding of a lifetime there but he does continue to play in various T20 leagues.

Had he played for a better team he would've retired as one of the greatest allrounder of all time.

His consistency with both bat and ball across all formats is mind boggling. What makes him even more special is the fact that he is one of the greatest t20 league players of all time.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Shakib is not an ATG

 

[barah_admi]

I personally think that expectations from BD players are so low that a very good players are argued as an ATG without putting consistent performance.

hahaha probably

he is certainly a Bangladesh atg

 

[Executioner]

No he isn't an ATG but definitely a great

But he is just 31 and very fit

Next 7 years he can do a lot to be labelled ATG

And people arguing about Shakib being bits and pieces allrounder. Shakib has a positive difference between batting and bowling average in every format. How many players have done that.

 

[Ocelot]

He's certainly Asia's greatest spinning all rounder. In an all-time Asian XI, he'll replace Kumble, as Murali would be the other spinner.

 

[Ab Fan]

On a serious note, I will put Shakib as country great.

To become an ATG, he needs to replicate something like Kapil did during his playing days. That is what makes you an ATG.

Shakib plays for a weak team like Bangladesh and hence stats and icc rankings isn't the end of everything. However, I will rate him higher than Stokes for sure.

 

[DeadBall]

Shakib Al Hasan joins Dwayne Bravo in elite T20 list

Bangladeshi all-rounder became the second player to record the double of 4000 runs and 300 wickets in the format.

When Shakib Al Hasan sent back Rohit Sharma during the game between Sunrisers Hyderabad and Mumbai Indians in the 2018 Indian Premier League on Tuesday 24 April night, it was his 300th wicket in the Twenty20 format.

That put him in an elite list of only two players to have achieved the double of 4000 runs and 300 wickets in T20 cricket, Dwayne Bravo having got there well before him.

Bravo, the 34-year-old all-rounder from Trinidad, has been one of the great T20 players over the years, and has a tally of 5607 runs to go with 417 wickets, well ahead of Hasan’s 4069 runs and 300 strikes.

Both of them are well off the top when it comes to most runs, though, with Chris Gayle heading the list with 11,297 runs and 25 other players on the table ahead of Bravo.

Dwayne Bravo has 5607 runs and 417 wickets in T20 cricket Dwayne Bravo has 5607 runs and 417 wickets in T20 cricket

With the ball, though, Bravo is right on top, and is followed by Lasith Malinga (348), Sunil Narine (325) and Hasan. Apart from them, Shahid Afridi also has 300 T20 wickets.

Hasan, playing for Hyderabad in the IPL, has been one of the better performers as the team has registered four wins in their six matches. The Bangladesh all-rounder has scored 89 runs at a strike rate of 130.88 with a best of 27, and picked up six wickets with an economy rate of 7.33.

Hasan is also ranked No.1 in the list of all-rounders in the MRF Tyres ICC Test Player Rankings, and No.1 and No.3 in the corresponding lists for one-day international and T20 International cricket.

Bravo, meanwhile, has been solid with the bat in the IPL for Chennai Super Kings, hitting 104 runs in four innings at a strike rate of 200, but hasn’t quite got it right with the ball always, conceding runs at 10.31 and picking up just four wickets in five games.

https://www.icc-cricket.com/news/671869

 

[Executioner]

Shakib Al Hasan joins Dwayne Bravo in elite T20 list

Bangladeshi all-rounder became the second player to record the double of 4000 runs and 300 wickets in the format.

When Shakib Al Hasan sent back Rohit Sharma during the game between Sunrisers Hyderabad and Mumbai Indians in the 2018 Indian Premier League on Tuesday 24 April night, it was his 300th wicket in the Twenty20 format.

That put him in an elite list of only two players to have achieved the double of 4000 runs and 300 wickets in T20 cricket, Dwayne Bravo having got there well before him.

Bravo, the 34-year-old all-rounder from Trinidad, has been one of the great T20 players over the years, and has a tally of 5607 runs to go with 417 wickets, well ahead of Hasan’s 4069 runs and 300 strikes.

Both of them are well off the top when it comes to most runs, though, with Chris Gayle heading the list with 11,297 runs and 25 other players on the table ahead of Bravo.

Dwayne Bravo has 5607 runs and 417 wickets in T20 cricket Dwayne Bravo has 5607 runs and 417 wickets in T20 cricket

With the ball, though, Bravo is right on top, and is followed by Lasith Malinga (348), Sunil Narine (325) and Hasan. Apart from them, Shahid Afridi also has 300 T20 wickets.

Hasan, playing for Hyderabad in the IPL, has been one of the better performers as the team has registered four wins in their six matches. The Bangladesh all-rounder has scored 89 runs at a strike rate of 130.88 with a best of 27, and picked up six wickets with an economy rate of 7.33.

Hasan is also ranked No.1 in the list of all-rounders in the MRF Tyres ICC Test Player Rankings, and No.1 and No.3 in the corresponding lists for one-day international and T20 International cricket.

Bravo, meanwhile, has been solid with the bat in the IPL for Chennai Super Kings, hitting 104 runs in four innings at a strike rate of 200, but hasn’t quite got it right with the ball always, conceding runs at 10.31 and picking up just four wickets in five games.

https://www.icc-cricket.com/news/671869

Pretty good record. I am sure he will achieve even more over the next 5 years

 

[Send1983]

I like his game this season. Bowled and Batted better than any time i have seen him in the past.

 

[RainMan_]

Even though he is one of most valued t20 players in the world and there is hardly any doubt about his atg status as an all rounder, his performance as a captain hasn't been that good so far. He got exposed as a captain in the recently finished t20 series against Afghanistan. He badly needs to improve his captaincy skill

 

[shaz619]

Like I said before, I've had enough of Shakib; he needs to retire immediately.

 

[Sam99]

He is very good stats player but i dont know if he has any impact with bat and ball.

 

[Ab Fan]

He is one of the greats of the game. One of the biggest reason for Bangladesh success over the years.

He may not be a box office hit like say Stokes but he is a very valuable player for Bangladesh.

 

[The_Odd_One]

He's not overrated but he's a mediocre leader and a poor sportsman.

 

[RainMan_]

He is very good stats player but i dont know if he has any impact with bat and ball.

Of course he has tremendous impact with both bat and ball. I have already mentioned those in my earlier posts in this thread. He is one of the most important players in his team.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Extremely overrated bits in pieces player

 

[RainMan_]

Extremely overrated bits in pieces player

Please read some of the posts I made in this thread. U'll realise why he's way ahead of someone like Kapil as an all rounder in tests and why he's considered as the second greatest Asian all-rounder of all time

 

[the_outsider]

The best all-rounder in the world today. But he has never been ATG-material and will never be an ATG. He is a couple of notches below that.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Please read some of the posts I made in this thread. U'll realise why he's way ahead of someone like Kapil as an all rounder in tests and why he's considered as the second greatest Asian all-rounder of all time

Shakib is overrated in ODIs. Performs well against top teams once in 3 years. Kapil at least won a WC for his team.

 

[MenInG]

Bangladesh allrounder Shakib al Hasan posted an emotional message on Facebook on Sunday in which he expressed his pain of not being able to meet with his daughter as he is currently in self-isolation at a hotel in USA amid coronavirus scare. As of Sunday, nearly 350,000 people were infected with COVID-19 in USA, with the global death had reached past 15,000.

In a video posted on his Facebook account, Shakib explained that he has decided to go into a 14-day self-isolation period to keep everyone around himself safe after he landed in USA a few days ago.

“I reached the USA a few days ago, and I was a bit worried during the flight (due to Covid-19 pandemic).. But I tried to keep up with the hygiene directives and precautionary measures. After I reached the US, I headed straight to the hotel. I informed my wife and daughter that I would be staying here,” he said.

The Bangladesh cricketer added: “Since I took the flight to the US, there is a risk of me carrying the virus. So, I decided to isolate myself. I didn’t even meet my daughter after coming here. It is very painful for me that I can’t see her. But I think this sacrifice is very important at the moment.”

“Those who are staying abroad, it’s important to stay indoors and avoid going outdoors. Another thing that one should be mindful is not allowing relatives or neighbours at your places. It’s important to stay at home at least in the next 14 days,” he further said.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/cric...tion-in-usa/story-m7xsK1GuOq6NbK2Fmc77tN.html

 

[Firebat]

‘Shakib may arrive in two to three days and start practicing’

The Bangladesh Cricket Board (BCB) CEO Nizamuddin Chowdhury informed that premier all-rounder Shakib Al Hasan, who is currently at the United States with his family, may arrive in the country within the next two to three days and start practicing on his own at BKSP.

Shakib has been serving a ban, imposed by the ICC last year in October for the all-rounder's failure in reporting corrupt approaches on three occasions. The premier all-rounder's ban is set to come to an end on October 28.

"It has already been informed that Shakib will start practicing on his own. He has chosen BKSP for practicing. To my knowledge, he will be arriving in the country in the next two to three days and will start practicing," informed Nizamuddin.

Earlier, BCB president Nazmul Hassan mentioned that Shakib will join the Tigers in their tour of Sri Lanka. As the three-Test tour of Sri Lanka is slated to begin from October 24, the BCB president remained hopeful of getting the premier all-rounder's services from the second Test.

There is also a possibility of Bangladesh playing a T20 series in Sri Lanka but Nizamuddin informed that they are still waiting for Sri Lanka Cricket's (SLC) official announcement of the schedule.

"SLC will officially announce the schedule. We have got an indication from SLC and are working according to that. The three Tests have been confirmed and we are also discussing suitable venues for the matches. We also hope that all the members of the coaching staff will join us within the first week of our tour in Sri Lanka," informed Nizamuddin.

The BCB is also hopeful about rescheduling all the postponed series upon discussion with respective cricket boards.

The Tigers have faced a total of five series postponements -- the second Test against Pakistan, the Ireland and UK tour, a home series against Australia, New Zealand's tour of Bangladesh for a two-Test series and Bangladesh's tour of Sri Lanka for a three-Test series --. while cricketing activities in the country have been on hold since mid-March.

While the three-Test tour of Sri Lanka has already been confirmed and is scheduled for October-November, the BCB CEO informed that New Zealand's tour of the country will probably be rescheduled for sometime around the middle of next year with the board continuing talks with the other boards about arranging all the postponed series.

"We have come to an understanding with the New Zealand board that we might arrange for their tour sometime in the middle of next year. We will also require a small window for the one Test against Pakistan and we will be discussing with the PCB about rescheduling it. The Sri Lanka tour is already slated. And we have already been in talks with the Australia and Ireland boards," concluded Nizamuddin.

https://www.thedailystar.net/sports...e-two-three-days-and-start-practicing-1954173

 

[Ted123]

Both Stokes and Jadeja are better all rounders than this sick cowardly attitude player.

 

[Executioner]

Both Stokes and Jadeja are better all rounders than this sick cowardly attitude player.

What do you mean by sick cowardly?

Also check the overall allround stats of shakib across 3 formats before saying someone else is better.

 

[Ted123]

What do you mean by sick cowardly?

Also check the overall allround stats of shakib across 3 formats before saying someone else is better.

Shakib has played like 50 of his 60 tests at home or vs minnow nations. He has barely played 8-10 tests in Aus, SA, Eng, Ind, NZ and Pak/UAE.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Both Stokes and Jadeja are better all rounders than this sick cowardly attitude player.

He is a quality player. Calling Stokes an all rounder these days is over-estimation. He is more like bits and pieces journey man these days.

 

[light]

Both Stokes and Jadeja are better all rounders than this sick cowardly attitude player.

It's rare for a player to keep on performing consistently with both bat and ball and play as a premier batsmen/bowler for their team and this dude has done that. I don't think I have ever seen him off form for an extended period of time. Even Jadeja did not do it for this much extended time (coming from an Indian). This guy was in the team for fielding for a long period of time - only started getting better after getting many chances. Bro what is you on about? This guy is already a legend and will retire as a legend (regardless of his on/off field antics). You buggin?

 

[Executioner]

Shakib has played like 50 of his 60 tests at home or vs minnow nations. He has barely played 8-10 tests in Aus, SA, Eng, Ind, NZ and Pak/UAE.

He has played plenty of tests outside Asia (which admittedly does include Zim but Zim didn't have test status for majority of Shakibs playing days) and his records is pretty decent.

And you talk about not playing enough tests in Aus/Eng/India, is it his fault? We last played a series in Eng in 2010, Aus in 2009. We toured India for a proper series only once in our history. And Pakistan has NEVER invited us to UAE.

It is true off late he has skipped a few series but I think at this phase of life his priorities has shifted to his future businesses and very importantly his family. We fans aren't pleased with it but none of it is because he is cowardly.

 

[Ab Fan]

Batting wise :-

Stokes - 6.5/10
Shakib - 6/10
Jadeja - 5/10

Bowling wise :-

Stokes - 5/10( probably a 6 before he regressed recently)
Shakib - 6/10
Jadeja - 7/10

 

[Nil Dhumrojal]

I would say 'UNDERRATED'

 

[FearlessRoar]

Shakib Al Hasan has been ruled out of Bangladesh's last match at the 2023 World Cup against Australia after breaking his finger against Sri Lanka yesterday.

 

[Sunzi]

Absolutely not (overrated).

 

[Savak]

Shakib is a cheat, a loser, a disgusting individual and in cahoots with spot fixers. It is befitting for him to be part of a looserish Bangladesh team who can only win out of desperation via cheating.

 

[sweep_shot]

Shakib Al Hasan has been ruled out of Bangladesh's last match at the 2023 World Cup against Australia after breaking his finger against Sri Lanka yesterday.

May have just played his final ODI World Cup game.

He is 36 now. Don't think he will play in 2027 WC.

 

[LegendAli]

That smirk he always has is super annoying, punchable face really.

What bothers me even more is how touchy he was with Kohli when that drama happened in their game earlier this year or something was pretty obvious.

and then how he acted with Sri Lanka yesterday which was a complete 360 in attitude, he would not have done that against any top team.

If you "want" to have an attitude be consistent at least, just looks like one of those guys that would throw even his friends under the bus given the opportunity.

If he could back this up with performances I would have no ground, but he's rubbish top to bottom.

 

[jnaveen1980]

He is a great all rounder. Always rate him. Best player from BD.

 

[Ab Fan]

Stokes, Shakib and Jadeja

Three high class all rounders from this era but behind the golden quarter of the 80s or Kallis.

 

[BouncerGuy]

He is one of the greatest all-rounders but he really needs to work on his attitude. No need to attract unnecessary criticism towards yourself by doing childish stuff. This is International cricket, not some gully cricket where you can just run away taking bat and ball with you.

 

[Savak]

Shakibs performances have dipped of late. Outside Bangladesh, his bowling is pretty average

 

[Bhaijaan]

He has earned him a statue outside the Sher-e-Bangla stadium and hopefully that statue would not be built by Bharatiya sculptures as they turned Sachin Tendulkar (GOAT) statue into that of Steven Smith which was a shame.

Shakib also has potential to become a successful actor in Banglawood.