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Shoaib Malik Support & Performance Watch

Should Malik be in the plans for the 2019 WC?

  • Total voters
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  • Poll closed .
He is so confident about his game at the moment. Never looks flustered or clueless at the crease, really knows what he's doing at the moment.

No Misbah, Younis, Afridi (ODIs, soon in T20s) has given breathing space and responsibility, can't see him going anywhere till the next World Cup.
 
After his come back he is totally a different player. he is playing with confidence middling the ball, finding gapes with excellent timing. hitting big sixes. doing good job in absence of hafeez. His experience is also good for new players. i am quit sure he will be in the team in next world cup.
 
Mamoon said:
He is so confident about his game at the moment. Never looks flustered or clueless at the crease, really knows what he's doing at the moment.

No Misbah, Younis, Afridi (ODIs, soon in T20s) has given breathing space and responsibility, can't see him going anywhere till the next World Cup.
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I would like to see Malik playing against South Africa and Australia though.
 
Naim said:
After his come back he is totally a different player. he is playing with confidence middling the ball, finding gapes with excellent timing. hitting big sixes. doing good job in absence of hafeez. His experience is also good for new players. i am quit sure he will be in the team in next world cup.
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The only problem in his previous comebacks was that he was not given confidence by the team management and his role was not defined, now that the team management has placed their trust in him and he has his roled defined he is doing well. That is the main difference!

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In recent history it looks like there are two ways you can take your omission from Pakistan team.

Razzaq Way: While sitting out keep on bashing former players, current players, captain, board , selection commitee etc and build media pressure. Dont work on your weeknesses, dont play domestic or quality leagues around the world.

Kinda like younis.

Malik way: Keep your head down, stay away from controversial statements, work on your weeknesses, prove yourself around the globe in different leagues when not getting chance at home.

Kinda like no one does.

I am glad he is back and getting support. Despite the word "Senior" is a pariah word in PCB he has carved his place.
 
umer187 said:
The only problem in his previous comebacks was that he was not given confidence by the team management and his role was not defined, now that the team management has placed their trust in him and he has his roled defined he is doing well. That is the main difference!

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Absolutely.

Some fools will say previously he had to play stronger opposition and on tougher tracks but they obviously don't know what they are talking about.

It was completely everyone else's fault.
 
Hamzakhalid said:
I would like to see Malik playing against South Africa and Australia though.
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Batting in the middle overs vs. SA is not very difficult. Tahir, Duminy, Behardien, McLaren and even de Villiers do the bulk of bowling, it is a problem for them. Only Tahir is a quality bowler, but Malik plays spin well.

Might struggle vs. Australia.
 
miandadrules said:
Absolutely.

Some fools will say previously he had to play stronger opposition and on tougher tracks but they obviously don't know what they are talking about.

It was completely everyone else's fault.
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A bit of uncalled for hatred I feel.

Malik averages 34 in about 35 matches at 70+ in AUS, SAF & WI from 2000-13, when thse 3 easily had the best attack outside PAK, which in those context wasn't that bad, particularly considering that he was an useful bowler & a brilliant fielder. If I take out those matches after 2010, when he was really struggling, this 'll jump close to 40. His overall figures are massively dented by his average of 7 in around 20 matches in ENG/NZ; many of them played at top 3 - positions, which nobody including himself is claiming that his strength. Besides, he averages 50+ against SAF in SAF, probably highest by a PAK player & the sample is not that small. At one point in 2009-10, Malik had a career average of almost 38 @ ~80 for about 170 matches played between 2010 to 2010 - that's equivalent to 45/90 for stats between 2010 to 2015; on top of that he bowled at 35/4.5 rate for 100+ wickets & easily was among the best fielders in the team - he didn't deserve the treatment he got from the senior bunch at that time either.

Anyway, there is no point bringing old stats, or potential stats, when he is performing now on given stage. He 'll be taken to cleaners if he fails again in UK next year, then why should he get the bashing for a potential failure (or past failure), when he is delivering what he is supposed to do now? I don't think it's fair - credit should be given where it's due. If we do the same maths for MoHa, even between 2010 to 2014, when he was at his brilliant best in ENG, AUS, SAF, ENG context, it 'll feel Malik vs MoHa like Sobers vs Shastri. He is playing the No. 4/5 role better than anyone since MoYo - if we can't appreciate that, fine - at least let's not disgrace ourselves.
 
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MMHS said:
A bit of uncalled for hatred I feel.

Malik averages 34 in about 35 matches at 70+ in AUS, SAF & WI from 2000-13, when thse 3 easily had the best attack outside PAK, which in those context wasn't that bad, particularly considering that he was an useful bowler & a brilliant fielder. If I take out those matches after 2010, when he was really struggling, this 'll jump close to 40. His overall figures are massively dented by his average of 7 in around 20 matches in ENG/NZ; many of them played at top 3 - positions, which nobody including himself is claiming that his strength. Besides, he averages 50+ against SAF in SAF, probably highest by a PAK player & the sample is not that small. At one point in 2009-10, Malik had a career average of almost 38 @ ~80 for about 170 matches played between 2010 to 2010 - that's equivalent to 45/90 for stats between 2010 to 2015; on top of that he bowled at 35/4.5 rate for 100+ wickets & easily was among the best fielders in the team - he didn't deserve the treatment he got from the senior bunch at that time either.

Anyway, there is no point bringing old stats, or potential stats, when he is performing now on given stage. He 'll be taken to cleaners if he fails again in UK next year, then why should he get the bashing for a potential failure (or past failure), when he is delivering what he is supposed to do now? I don't think it's fair - credit should be given where it's due. If we do the same maths for MoHa, even between 2010 to 2014, when he was at his brilliant best in ENG, AUS, SAF, ENG context, it 'll feel Malik vs MoHa like Sobers vs Shastri. He is playing the No. 4/5 role better than anyone since MoYo - if we can't appreciate that, fine - at least let's not disgrace ourselves.
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You've missed the point.

What I am stating is that Malik has not redeemed himself by bashing Zimbabwe and a dilapidated Lankan team on roads as is being claimed. In fact, the technical issues which have plagued him are still very evident.

So, let's not disgrace ourselves by being euphoric about something which currently has very little substance, this being Malik's resurgence with the bat. Which other batsmen have failed during the same period? How many times has he played in a difficult or pressurised situation.

Only 6 of his 20 innings were in top 3 in England and New Zealand.
 
miandadrules said:
You've missed the point.

What I am stating is that Malik has not redeemed himself by bashing Zimbabwe and a dilapidated Lankan team on roads as is being claimed. In fact, the technical issues which have plagued him are still very evident.

So, let's not disgrace ourselves by being euphoric about something which currently has very little substance, this being Malik's resurgence with the bat. Which other batsmen have failed during the same period? How many times has he played in a difficult or pressurised situation.

Only 6 of his 20 innings were in top 3 in England and New Zealand.
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You seem to e a bit desperate - I thought, I 'll get away with few world. Now, please usher us how you can explain - "In fact, the technical issues which have plagued him are still very evident" - & I tell you one thing - I have seen all of his recent innings; you have to convince me his "technical issues" batting at 5, when he is likely to face lots of spin with fielding wide spread. I 'll tell you other way - he can teach some of the new players how to build & pace an ODI innings in middle overs. It was someone like Malik's absence that made PAK young players' binary approach - bang or dot, later ops...... It's not that he came as opener & bashed the poor/depleted attack - there were few coming ahead of him & show me someone averaging almost 90 @ 130+.... & I take out the horrible BD tour out, Malik wasn't there either.

No body is going euphoric here - rather I am trying to tell someone that Malik was brought back for a role & he is justifying his selection. He is not the first senior to be recalled back in team (not only in PAK) & he is justifying his recall - that's why most are calling a come-back of Malik. Nobody is questioning why he was dropped earlier & nobody should try to take his credit away on hypothetical context.
 
MMHS said:
You seem to e a bit desperate - I thought, I 'll get away with few world. Now, please usher us how you can explain - "In fact, the technical issues which have plagued him are still very evident" - & I tell you one thing - I have seen all of his recent innings; you have to convince me his "technical issues" batting at 5, when he is likely to face lots of spin with fielding wide spread. I 'll tell you other way - he can teach some of the new players how to build & pace an ODI innings in middle overs. It was someone like Malik's absence that made PAK young players' binary approach - bang or dot, later ops...... It's not that he came as opener & bashed the poor/depleted attack - there were few coming ahead of him & show me someone averaging almost 90 @ 130+.... & I take out the horrible BD tour out, Malik wasn't there either.

No body is going euphoric here - rather I am trying to tell someone that Malik was brought back for a role & he is justifying his selection. He is not the first senior to be recalled back in team (not only in PAK) & he is justifying his recall - that's why most are calling a come-back of Malik. Nobody is questioning why he was dropped earlier & nobody should try to take his credit away on hypothetical context.
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Firstly, lets start with the grip. The bat handle is lateral to his forearm, which results in the bat coming down at an angle and also causes his bottom hand to dominate. Now, he has been able adjust because of the slowness of the wickets and the poor bowling but each time one of the bowlers has slipped himself the flaw becomes evident. Bottom hand dominance is his major downfall.

Secondly, he rarely gets behind the ball unless it is military medium. He has a compulsion to stay leg side of the ball, which coupled with point one means that against the moving or rising ball he is in a poor position to counter it. At times he even makes a trigger movement with his back leg away from the stumps. This also makes him susceptible to short-pitched deliveries.

Thirdly, his inflexible front leg. When he drives the front leg remains braced majority of the time, resulting in him being unable to totally get on top of the ball when driving. This may not seem a problem now, but once there is bounce or movement it becomes an issue and provides catching practice to those behind the wicket.

Fourthly, it is ridiculous to state that he technical flaws won't be exposed because he will be facing spin. Most professional networks will do their homework and will target him the longer his stint in the team is, as he once again becomes a known quantity.


Now to address a few issues which pertain to me in your posts.

The first post which you quoted me on was a response to a poster who claimed that the reason for his current success was due previous mismanagement, to which I countered that it couldn't feasibly be due to the weak opposition. All I call for is perspective.

Where have I asked for his ouster from the team? I have merely pointed out that he still has a lot to prove.

With regards to his average and SR. You can't have it both ways. Had he batted up the order he wouldn't have those NOs and the SR wouldn't be as high either because he would have to play a more measured role. Please show me one batsman who has struggled during the same period.

Malik has only faced one pressure situation since his comeback and he failed. Understandably as it was a huge task but he failed nonetheless.
 
miandadrules said:
Firstly, lets start with the grip. The bat handle is lateral to his forearm, which results in the bat coming down at an angle and also causes his bottom hand to dominate. Now, he has been able adjust because of the slowness of the wickets and the poor bowling but each time one of the bowlers has slipped himself the flaw becomes evident. Bottom hand dominance is his major downfall.

Secondly, he rarely gets behind the ball unless it is military medium. He has a compulsion to stay leg side of the ball, which coupled with point one means that against the moving or rising ball he is in a poor position to counter it. At times he even makes a trigger movement with his back leg away from the stumps. This also makes him susceptible to short-pitched deliveries.

Thirdly, his inflexible front leg. When he drives the front leg remains braced majority of the time, resulting in him being unable to totally get on top of the ball when driving. This may not seem a problem now, but once there is bounce or movement it becomes an issue and provides catching practice to those behind the wicket.

Fourthly, it is ridiculous to state that he technical flaws won't be exposed because he will be facing spin. Most professional networks will do their homework and will target him the longer his stint in the team is, as he once again becomes a known quantity.


Now to address a few issues which pertain to me in your posts.

The first post which you quoted me on was a response to a poster who claimed that the reason for his current success was due previous mismanagement, to which I countered that it couldn't feasibly be due to the weak opposition. All I call for is perspective.

Where have I asked for his ouster from the team? I have merely pointed out that he still has a lot to prove.

With regards to his average and SR. You can't have it both ways. Had he batted up the order he wouldn't have those NOs and the SR wouldn't be as high either because he would have to play a more measured role. Please show me one batsman who has struggled during the same period.

Malik has only faced one pressure situation since his comeback and he failed. Understandably as it was a huge task but he failed nonetheless.
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For the first part, I thought you were describing someone Steve Smith................ there is nothing called perfect technique as long as you are able to send the ball where you want to. By your logic, Asad Shafiq & Amin should have been permanent No. 3 & 4. Please don't try to impress with your "Technical know how of batting" everywhere....

2nd part - you are absolutely right - you can't have average & SR both. Though someone is maintaining an average of 85 & SR of 134 after coming back...................

Many batsmen in last 7/8 matches had great times, bad times as well - but at the end, none is averaging 85 @ 130+ with a hundred & 2 fifties. How do you know, had he batted up he won't have added numbers with that - for the time being, he batted once at 3 & made one of the best hundreds in recent times by a PAK batsman. Average & SR could have dropped - but who cares if its for 2 hundreds & 4 fifties in 8 innings for a 70/100 stats? Remaining not out in a successful chase is the ultimate for a middle order batsman, which I can't recall from any Pakistani since Inzi or MoYo...

He failed in 5th ODI & I had my post for that as well; but what I don't do is allow my personal preference get better of my analysis - something, that often leads to a bitter soul.............
 
MMHS said:
For the first part, I thought you were describing someone Steve Smith................ there is nothing called perfect technique as long as you are able to send the ball where you want to. By your logic, Asad Shafiq & Amin should have been permanent No. 3 & 4. Please don't try to impress with your "Technical know how of batting" everywhere....

2nd part - you are absolutely right - you can't have average & SR both. Though someone is maintaining an average of 85 & SR of 134 after coming back...................

Many batsmen in last 7/8 matches had great times, bad times as well - but at the end, none is averaging 85 @ 130+ with a hundred & 2 fifties. How do you know, had he batted up he won't have added numbers with that - for the time being, he batted once at 3 & made one of the best hundreds in recent times by a PAK batsman. Average & SR could have dropped - but who cares if its for 2 hundreds & 4 fifties in 8 innings for a 70/100 stats? Remaining not out in a successful chase is the ultimate for a middle order batsman, which I can't recall from any Pakistani since Inzi or MoYo...

He failed in 5th ODI & I had my post for that as well; but what I don't do is allow my personal preference get better of my analysis - something, that often leads to a bitter soul.............
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Don't flatter yourself that I would try to impress you. There is nothing that is perfect but there sure is poor technique. Name those players that bring their bat down at an angle and succeed. The fact that you think Asad and Amin have good techniques pretty much sums up your grasp.

For those interested see the placement of the forearm in relation to the bat-handle of Tendulkar, Dravid, Lara, Sanga and pretty much every leading batsman. Inzi, Yousaf and YK for Pakistani examples.

Like I said name me a batsman who has been poor during these matches?
 
miandadrules said:
Don't flatter yourself that I would try to impress you. There is nothing that is perfect but there sure is poor technique. Name those players that bring their bat down at an angle and succeed. The fact that you think Asad and Amin have good techniques pretty much sums up your grasp.

For those interested see the placement of the forearm in relation to the bat-handle of Tendulkar, Dravid, Lara, Sanga and pretty much every leading batsman. Inzi, Yousaf and YK for Pakistani examples.

Like I said name me a batsman who has been poor during these matches?
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Don't try to impress, but don't fool yourself. What grip are you trying to explain with so little knowledge? Forearm is part of the stance, players can have grips comfortable to the way the handle the bat. I know my grasp but don't you think it's a bit idiotic to say "bat comes at an angle" & then referring to MoYo, Ponting, Lara, even Inzi, go & see some high back-lift drives of Lara or MoYo, or the pulls of Ponting before trying to be an intellectual ............ it sums up your level. Dravid had a high elbow stance, for that he was a predominantly front foot player, so was Gooch, but they were great on back foot either, because their balance was good. Go & check Viv's grip & front elbow position, not to mention bottom hand shots - only an idiot 'll try to sell that batsmen can play squire of the wicket with top hand only, without using the power of bottom hand.

Stance it part of the balance & players can use any grip or front elbow position as long as the balance is good - at the time of contact, so that the body weight can be transferred appropriately.

I mentioned Amin & Asad not for their technique - at least that little understanding I have - I was trying to say that if front elbow, grip & holding bat was the key factor then these two would have done much better. What makes you think that I rate them as "technically so good" that they should bat at 3 & 4? I mentioned them for countering the idiotic logic that, more than making runs, Bat grip, handle, front elbow bla, bla & bla are more important for a batsman.

Who has been poor in those matches is another idiotic question, when the par for the course is 300 runs - show me someone close to 85/135 stat, which probably is just above par when there are match scores like 368/4, 316/6 & teams chasing 250, 260, 290 with plenty at hand.
 
MMHS said:
Don't try to impress, but don't fool yourself. What grip are you trying to explain with so little knowledge? Forearm is part of the stance, players can have grips comfortable to the way the handle the bat. I know my grasp but don't you think it's a bit idiotic to say "bat comes at an angle" & then referring to MoYo, Ponting, Lara, even Inzi, go & see some high back-lift drives of Lara or MoYo, or the pulls of Ponting before trying to be an intellectual ............ it sums up your level. Dravid had a high elbow stance, for that he was a predominantly front foot player, so was Gooch, but they were great on back foot either, because their balance was good. Go & check Viv's grip & front elbow position, not to mention bottom hand shots - only an idiot 'll try to sell that batsmen can play squire of the wicket with top hand only, without using the power of bottom hand.

Stance it part of the balance & players can use any grip or front elbow position as long as the balance is good - at the time of contact, so that the body weight can be transferred appropriately.

I mentioned Amin & Asad not for their technique - at least that little understanding I have - I was trying to say that if front elbow, grip & holding bat was the key factor then these two would have done much better. What makes you think that I rate them as "technically so good" that they should bat at 3 & 4? I mentioned them for countering the idiotic logic that, more than making runs, Bat grip, handle, front elbow bla, bla & bla are more important for a batsman.

Who has been poor in those matches is another idiotic question, when the par for the course is 300 runs - show me someone close to 85/135 stat, which probably is just above par when there are match scores like 368/4, 316/6 & teams chasing 250, 260, 290 with plenty at hand.
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Once again don't flatter yourself to think I would want to impress you. Your long meandering posts may pull the wool over the eyes of most but I see them for there significant lack of waffle.

The grip determines how the forearm lies in relation to the bat handle. The significance of this is that by having handle medial to the forearm, the bat itself remains under the batsman's eyes. This allows him to adjust for the movement of the ball and reduces the tendency to ball the ball outside of ones line of vision.

Once again MoYO and Ponting had a loop in their back lift hence the stoke is played by the blade coming down straight. It isn't played by the bat coming from 2nd slip hence "the angle".

Please do check Viv's grip and elbow position. Also checkout his video with the MCC masterclass where he breakdown his own technique.

For someone who tries to mascarade as cricketing connoisseur your lack of basic mechanics and terminology is shocking. When coaches refer to top-hand dominance it refers to the back-lift and the initial trigger for the stroke not the execution of the entire shot. Hence the guidance from the top hand and the power provided later with the bottom-hand. If you try to play short-pitch deliveries purely with the bottom hand you reduce the surface area contact of the bat and control.

Once again your spouting platitudes about stance without substance. Your grip influences your stance which in-turn influences your head-position which influences your field of vision and depth and line perception.

Once again you seem to have an inability to follow a train of thought. You asked why I was critical of Malik, for which I gave you the reasons for his past failures and that they are evident still. Now you go off on a rant about Amin and Asad.

So when the par score is 300 the contributions of others are marginalised or does it suggest that conditions were as easy as they will ever get?

On a side note if you want to trade insults I am more than willing.

For once rather than posting regurgitated platitudes, why don't you add some substance to your posts. Your waffle won't wash with me.
 
miandadrules said:
Once again don't flatter yourself to think I would want to impress you. Your long meandering posts may pull the wool over the eyes of most but I see them for there significant lack of waffle.

The grip determines how the forearm lies in relation to the bat handle. The significance of this is that by having handle medial to the forearm, the bat itself remains under the batsman's eyes. This allows him to adjust for the movement of the ball and reduces the tendency to ball the ball outside of ones line of vision.

Once again MoYO and Ponting had a loop in their back lift hence the stoke is played by the blade coming down straight. It isn't played by the bat coming from 2nd slip hence "the angle".

Please do check Viv's grip and elbow position. Also checkout his video with the MCC masterclass where he breakdown his own technique.

For someone who tries to mascarade as cricketing connoisseur your lack of basic mechanics and terminology is shocking. When coaches refer to top-hand dominance it refers to the back-lift and the initial trigger for the stroke not the execution of the entire shot. Hence the guidance from the top hand and the power provided later with the bottom-hand. If you try to play short-pitch deliveries purely with the bottom hand you reduce the surface area contact of the bat and control.

Once again your spouting platitudes about stance without substance. Your grip influences your stance which in-turn influences your head-position which influences your field of vision and depth and line perception.

Once again you seem to have an inability to follow a train of thought. You asked why I was critical of Malik, for which I gave you the reasons for his past failures and that they are evident still. Now you go off on a rant about Amin and Asad.

So when the par score is 300 the contributions of others are marginalised or does it suggest that conditions were as easy as they will ever get?

On a side note if you want to trade insults I am more than willing.

For once rather than posting regurgitated platitudes, why don't you add some substance to your posts. Your waffle won't wash with me.
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This is becoming a bit embarrassing now, for a week end & rush office hours.

I am too ordinary to be flattered by intellectuals like you, but try to explain what High elbow, steady head, eyes on line comes for a batsman batting at 5 in subcontinent? Malik is batting in middle order where the wickets are slow & the bowlers are making it even more difficult taking out the pace of the ball. In this situation, the best way to keep scoring in middle order is to use wristy pushes in the gaps & using feet against spinners to loft - which he is doing perfectly. He is maintaining a Scoring productivity over 80% & in between lofting balls with perfect foot work & rotating with utmost ease - which is the order of the day. I was trying to understand, how an intellectual can some up the batsman's technical flaw from his recent batting or how can someone define "difficult" conditions, when recent matches in ENG, SAF, NZ or even AUS has produced match scores of 600, even 700+

I didn't rant about Asad & Amin - I was trying to defend myself for intellactuals who thought I am extremely impressed with their stance, grip, bat position, the way they tie their shoe laces, enters the ground........ sometimes I get a bit confused how Manjeraker had just about 4/5 years career & Pujara is almost blink of elimination....

Easy or tough condition of course matters, for that PAK's only ODI win in AUS in last 10-12 matches against a Test side was at Gabba against the Zimbabweans, & for that matter, Malik wasn't the worst in those matches he played. Now, following your train of thoughts, technical understanding - please try to explain how someone averages 50+ in SAF, with such technical flaws?


Anyway, my level is too low for understanding you technical analysis on the batting skills of Lara or MoYo or Panta - I am a lay man, only thing I can see is someone scoring heavily, scoring fast with high productivity & finishing matches. Technical aspect of batting I 'll learn a bit later - still not at that level yet.
 
For the record, the number one batsman in the world right now doesn't have a really good technique. Bat comes down at an angle, too much movement at the crease, plays away from the body. Still scoring heavily.

Don't really have an opinion on Malik just yet. Too many times I have thought he has turned it around, only for him to squander it again. Let's wait and see. For now though, I hope he continues to help us win games.
 
MMHS said:
A bit of uncalled for hatred I feel.

Malik averages 34 in about 35 matches at 70+ in AUS, SAF & WI from 2000-13, when thse 3 easily had the best attack outside PAK, which in those context wasn't that bad, particularly considering that he was an useful bowler & a brilliant fielder. If I take out those matches after 2010, when he was really struggling, this 'll jump close to 40. His overall figures are massively dented by his average of 7 in around 20 matches in ENG/NZ; many of them played at top 3 - positions, which nobody including himself is claiming that his strength. Besides, he averages 50+ against SAF in SAF, probably highest by a PAK player & the sample is not that small. At one point in 2009-10, Malik had a career average of almost 38 @ ~80 for about 170 matches played between 2010 to 2010 - that's equivalent to 45/90 for stats between 2010 to 2015; on top of that he bowled at 35/4.5 rate for 100+ wickets & easily was among the best fielders in the team - he didn't deserve the treatment he got from the senior bunch at that time either.

Anyway, there is no point bringing old stats, or potential stats, when he is performing now on given stage. He 'll be taken to cleaners if he fails again in UK next year, then why should he get the bashing for a potential failure (or past failure), when he is delivering what he is supposed to do now? I don't think it's fair - credit should be given where it's due. If we do the same maths for MoHa, even between 2010 to 2014, when he was at his brilliant best in ENG, AUS, SAF, ENG context, it 'll feel Malik vs MoHa like Sobers vs Shastri. He is playing the No. 4/5 role better than anyone since MoYo - if we can't appreciate that, fine - at least let's not disgrace ourselves.
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Nice and comprehensive reply

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
 
MMHS said:
This is becoming a bit embarrassing now, for a week end & rush office hours.

I am too ordinary to be flattered by intellectuals like you, but try to explain what High elbow, steady head, eyes on line comes for a batsman batting at 5 in subcontinent? Malik is batting in middle order where the wickets are slow & the bowlers are making it even more difficult taking out the pace of the ball. In this situation, the best way to keep scoring in middle order is to use wristy pushes in the gaps & using feet against spinners to loft - which he is doing perfectly. He is maintaining a Scoring productivity over 80% & in between lofting balls with perfect foot work & rotating with utmost ease - which is the order of the day. I was trying to understand, how an intellectual can some up the batsman's technical flaw from his recent batting or how can someone define "difficult" conditions, when recent matches in ENG, SAF, NZ or even AUS has produced match scores of 600, even 700+

I didn't rant about Asad & Amin - I was trying to defend myself for intellactuals who thought I am extremely impressed with their stance, grip, bat position, the way they tie their shoe laces, enters the ground........ sometimes I get a bit confused how Manjeraker had just about 4/5 years career & Pujara is almost blink of elimination....

Easy or tough condition of course matters, for that PAK's only ODI win in AUS in last 10-12 matches against a Test side was at Gabba against the Zimbabweans, & for that matter, Malik wasn't the worst in those matches he played. Now, following your train of thoughts, technical understanding - please try to explain how someone averages 50+ in SAF, with such technical flaws?


Anyway, my level is too low for understanding you technical analysis on the batting skills of Lara or MoYo or Panta - I am a lay man, only thing I can see is someone scoring heavily, scoring fast with high productivity & finishing matches. Technical aspect of batting I 'll learn a bit later - still not at that level yet.
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Bro, I think u should leave miandadrules alone and don't reply to his posts. Many of us have tried to talk sense into him but we have failed miserably and so will u and it is not because he isn't smart enough but the reason is that he doesn't want to understand this in his hatred for Malik.

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umer187 said:
Bro, I think u should leave miandadrules alone and don't reply to his posts. Many of us have tried to talk sense into him but we have failed miserably and so will u and it is not because he isn't smart enough but the reason is that he doesn't want to understand this in his hatred for Malik.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
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What else could it be?
 
Agree with [MENTION=1080]miandadrules[/MENTION], but the only team I can see exploiting his flaws at #5 would be Australia and/or NZ in NZ perhaps. Most teams have batting dominated lineups and their first change bowlers are mediocre.
 
Is this the thread with the most responses on pakpassion ever?

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk
 
miandadrules said:
Firstly, lets start with the grip. The bat handle is lateral to his forearm, which results in the bat coming down at an angle and also causes his bottom hand to dominate. Now, he has been able adjust because of the slowness of the wickets and the poor bowling but each time one of the bowlers has slipped himself the flaw becomes evident. Bottom hand dominance is his major downfall.

Secondly, he rarely gets behind the ball unless it is military medium. He has a compulsion to stay leg side of the ball, which coupled with point one means that against the moving or rising ball he is in a poor position to counter it. At times he even makes a trigger movement with his back leg away from the stumps. This also makes him susceptible to short-pitched deliveries.

Thirdly, his inflexible front leg. When he drives the front leg remains braced majority of the time, resulting in him being unable to totally get on top of the ball when driving. This may not seem a problem now, but once there is bounce or movement it becomes an issue and provides catching practice to those behind the wicket.

Fourthly, it is ridiculous to state that he technical flaws won't be exposed because he will be facing spin. Most professional networks will do their homework and will target him the longer his stint in the team is, as he once again becomes a known quantity.


Now to address a few issues which pertain to me in your posts.

The first post which you quoted me on was a response to a poster who claimed that the reason for his current success was due previous mismanagement, to which I countered that it couldn't feasibly be due to the weak opposition. All I call for is perspective.

Where have I asked for his ouster from the team? I have merely pointed out that he still has a lot to prove.

With regards to his average and SR. You can't have it both ways. Had he batted up the order he wouldn't have those NOs and the SR wouldn't be as high either because he would have to play a more measured role. Please show me one batsman who has struggled during the same period.

Malik has only faced one pressure situation since his comeback and he failed. Understandably as it was a huge task but he failed nonetheless.
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I just find that a strange post from someone who is clearly a Miandad fan. Richie Benaud commented that Miandad himself stopped getting in line with the ball after getting struck on the head with a Lillee bouncer. That didn't stop Miandad from hitting short balls despite the adjustment he made. Top hand vs bottom hand is a crude comparison. The game format and time constraints obviously play a factor. In T20 cicket cross bat shots are becoming the norm, not the exception.
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
I just find that a strange post from someone who is clearly a Miandad fan. Richie Benaud commented that Miandad himself stopped getting in line with the ball after getting struck on the head with a Lillee bouncer. That didn't stop Miandad from hitting short balls despite the adjustment he made. Top hand vs bottom hand is a crude comparison. The game format and time constraints obviously play a factor. In T20 cicket cross bat shots are becoming the norm, not the exception.
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Cross batted isn't the same as bottom handed dominance causing the batsman playing across the line.

If Malik has the capability of Javed Miandad than we have nothing to worry about.
 
Shows what a player can do when the selectors are consistent and thus give the player some confidence.

edit - just as I type that he bowls a filthy full toss lol.
 
Malik's bowling has really taken the edge off losing Hafeez. I thought he was finished as a bowler, but ironically since the new testing has come in he's made a successful come back.
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
Malik's bowling has really taken the edge off losing Hafeez. I thought he was finished as a bowler, but ironically since the new testing has come in he's made a successful come back.
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Lots of posts in this thread earlier on were a bit **** taking however he genuinely is a decent one day player with a good cricketing brain. And he's not a moron off the field either.

He's no Sir Garfield Sobers but after losing Misbah, Ajmal, Afridi (ODIs) and Hafeez (bowling) Malik is a must in the ODI/T20 side.
 
Played like Malik of 2010-2014 today, but a great tour nonetheless.
 
Good comeback from him. Hope he continues his good form. He is a confidence player and his confidence is sky high right now which is good.
 
Malik of 2009-2014 was utter garbage and hence in and out of the team (mostly out).

In 2015, this is a changed Malik. More mature. Less politics. More performance.

He shouldn't be abused by fans anymore since he's finally selected based on performance, and not politics.
 
Congrats guys [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] [MENTION=48620]Cpt. Rishwat[/MENTION] [MENTION=10992]Fallen King[/MENTION] [MENTION=1080]miandadrules[/MENTION]

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umer187 said:
Congrats guys [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] [MENTION=48620]Cpt. Rishwat[/MENTION] [MENTION=10992]Fallen King[/MENTION] [MENTION=1080]miandadrules[/MENTION]

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
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Thank you.

I wish I could join you with the pompoms as you run through the streets celebrating this monumental performance. Never been a finer player under pressure. But it seems a little undignified for me.

I'm happy that on the two occasions he was put under pressure he silenced the critics emphatically.

Greatest Of All Time.
 
Man of the series.

Egg on the face of [MENTION=1080]miandadrules[/MENTION] who has shown his real side. Personal bias and agendas ahead of Pakistan. Argues with everyone on the forum. Tries to impress everyone with 'technical knowledge' which he sadly does not have.

Feel sorry for him, because when great wins like today happen.. its hard for him to enjoy because of all of his personal biases.
 
Bullet Drive said:
Man of the series.

Egg on the face of [MENTION=1080]miandadrules[/MENTION] who has shown his real side. Personal bias and agendas ahead of Pakistan. Argues with everyone on the forum. Tries to impress everyone with 'technical knowledge' which he sadly does not have.

Feel sorry for him, because when great wins like today happen.. its hard for him to enjoy because of all of his personal biases.
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You got me.

Egg on my face and isn't even free-range.

Two great under-pressure knocks this tour have elevated his standing in the pantheon of the greats.

Thank you also for your pity it means a lot coming such an esteemed analyst. Hopefully, one day I will be able to read the game as well as you.
 
Bullet Drive said:
Man of the series.

Egg on the face of [MENTION=1080]miandadrules[/MENTION] who has shown his real side. Personal bias and agendas ahead of Pakistan. Argues with everyone on the forum. Tries to impress everyone with 'technical knowledge' which he sadly does not have.

Feel sorry for him, because when great wins like today happen.. its hard for him to enjoy because of all of his personal biases.
Click to expand...

Totally agree. He''s just a hater who hasn't grasped the undeniable fact that Maliks greatness simply cannot be measured. Only us true believers get it.
 
umer187 said:
Congrats guys [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] [MENTION=48620]Cpt. Rishwat[/MENTION] [MENTION=10992]Fallen King[/MENTION] [MENTION=1080]miandadrules[/MENTION]

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
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Congrats to Pakistan really, because someone who everyone thought was down and dejected, has become one of the top players for Pakistan. Thank you Sania for putting some sense in to Shoaib! :P
 
BleedGreen said:
Congrats to Pakistan really, because someone who everyone thought was down and dejected, has become one of the top players for Pakistan. Thank you Sania for putting some sense in to Shoaib! [emoji14]
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Me along with all of those mentioned were supporting him even when he was not in the team...of course except miandadrules

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Cpt. Rishwat said:
I just find that a strange post from someone who is clearly a Miandad fan. Richie Benaud commented that Miandad himself stopped getting in line with the ball after getting struck on the head with a Lillee bouncer. That didn't stop Miandad from hitting short balls despite the adjustment he made. Top hand vs bottom hand is a crude comparison. The game format and time constraints obviously play a factor. In T20 cicket cross bat shots are becoming the norm, not the exception.
Click to expand...


Actually, Javed was one of the greatest ever improviser. His game wasn't base on copy-book technique, rather on intelligence, mental toughness & most importantly - his adaptation capability. On top of that, he was a master batsman against spin, but technically was never proficient.

For the change of his technique, actually what happened is Javed had a side on stance & he got cramped in AUS with extra pace & bounce, playing short-pitched staff. Batsmen groomed in slow Asian wickets actually play the horizontal bat leg side shots more with wristy flicks than using forearms like the Aussies or West Indians - once Inzi picked Ambrose from a foot outside off & flicked to Bridgetown crowd behind squire leg - his toe still facing mid off!!!!!

Javed got hit probably being too slow to go into position & losing his balance. Most players would have tried to fix that conventional way, not Javed - he was too intelligent. What he did was that, he changed his stance a bit & adjusted his grip - you 'll see later day Javed almost facing the bowler with spread out leg stance. This helped him to watch the ball better with both eyes & allowed his free swing of arm/wrists for anything short at pace - later he did score a pair of hundreds in WI almost entirely facing balls pitched at other half. This helped him ODI as well - those days bowlers could bowl unlimited short balls as long as it's under shoulder. Javed 'll stand tall for anything towards his rip-cage & with a parallel bat dab it somewhere around leg umpire for a walk. Only issue was that, this made him vulnerable against sharp in cutters & got him cramped in front of stumps often. Besides, his cover drives got a bit restricted, but allowed him free swing for the off-side deflections & cuts - in his last few years, he hardly drove spinners through covers, but was a magnificent cutter, even against good length balls.

Javed joined County before playing Test for PAK & learned his cricket in Sussex under Tony Greig - he was too smart to be restricted by MCC coaching manual.
 
Excellent news for Malik fans as he is given a category A contract. Finally the PCB hierarchy appreciates the great man's value. Better late than never.

Jiyai Jiyai Shoaib Malik.
 
Finally. The haters have been given a slap in their faces. His 259 against Sri Lanka really helped.
 
Whats malik done to deserve an A contract that the likes of wahab and sarfraz who have been in the team for a lot longer and in pretty much all the formats?
 
Yeah, doesn't make sense to hand him an A contract at all, and I'm someone who doesn't mind hi inclusion in LO's since he's in goo form. But getting an A contract just on the basis of two good series is ridiculous. I'm pretty sure if a youngster had performed in just two series, he'd still be given a low contract. a B contract at most, would have been appropriate.
 
miandadrules said:
Once again don't flatter yourself to think I would want to impress you. Your long meandering posts may pull the wool over the eyes of most but I see them for there significant lack of waffle.

The grip determines how the forearm lies in relation to the bat handle. The significance of this is that by having handle medial to the forearm, the bat itself remains under the batsman's eyes. This allows him to adjust for the movement of the ball and reduces the tendency to ball the ball outside of ones line of vision.

Once again MoYO and Ponting had a loop in their back lift hence the stoke is played by the blade coming down straight. It isn't played by the bat coming from 2nd slip hence "the angle".

Please do check Viv's grip and elbow position. Also checkout his video with the MCC masterclass where he breakdown his own technique.

For someone who tries to mascarade as cricketing connoisseur your lack of basic mechanics and terminology is shocking. When coaches refer to top-hand dominance it refers to the back-lift and the initial trigger for the stroke not the execution of the entire shot. Hence the guidance from the top hand and the power provided later with the bottom-hand. If you try to play short-pitch deliveries purely with the bottom hand you reduce the surface area contact of the bat and control.

Once again your spouting platitudes about stance without substance. Your grip influences your stance which in-turn influences your head-position which influences your field of vision and depth and line perception.

Once again you seem to have an inability to follow a train of thought. You asked why I was critical of Malik, for which I gave you the reasons for his past failures and that they are evident still. Now you go off on a rant about Amin and Asad.

So when the par score is 300 the contributions of others are marginalised or does it suggest that conditions were as easy as they will ever get?

On a side note if you want to trade insults I am more than willing.

For once rather than posting regurgitated platitudes, why don't you add some substance to your posts. Your waffle won't wash with me.
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MMHS said:
This is becoming a bit embarrassing now, for a week end & rush office hours.

I am too ordinary to be flattered by intellectuals like you, but try to explain what High elbow, steady head, eyes on line comes for a batsman batting at 5 in subcontinent? Malik is batting in middle order where the wickets are slow & the bowlers are making it even more difficult taking out the pace of the ball. In this situation, the best way to keep scoring in middle order is to use wristy pushes in the gaps & using feet against spinners to loft - which he is doing perfectly. He is maintaining a Scoring productivity over 80% & in between lofting balls with perfect foot work & rotating with utmost ease - which is the order of the day. I was trying to understand, how an intellectual can some up the batsman's technical flaw from his recent batting or how can someone define "difficult" conditions, when recent matches in ENG, SAF, NZ or even AUS has produced match scores of 600, even 700+

I didn't rant about Asad & Amin - I was trying to defend myself for intellactuals who thought I am extremely impressed with their stance, grip, bat position, the way they tie their shoe laces, enters the ground........ sometimes I get a bit confused how Manjeraker had just about 4/5 years career & Pujara is almost blink of elimination....

Easy or tough condition of course matters, for that PAK's only ODI win in AUS in last 10-12 matches against a Test side was at Gabba against the Zimbabweans, & for that matter, Malik wasn't the worst in those matches he played. Now, following your train of thoughts, technical understanding - please try to explain how someone averages 50+ in SAF, with such technical flaws?


Anyway, my level is too low for understanding you technical analysis on the batting skills of Lara or MoYo or Panta - I am a lay man, only thing I can see is someone scoring heavily, scoring fast with high productivity & finishing matches. Technical aspect of batting I 'll learn a bit later - still not at that level yet.
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Please stop fighting lol
 
Ahson8 said:
Yeah, doesn't make sense to hand him an A contract at all, and I'm someone who doesn't mind hi inclusion in LO's since he's in goo form. But getting an A contract just on the basis of two good series is ridiculous. I'm pretty sure if a youngster had performed in just two series, he'd still be given a low contract. a B contract at most, would have been appropriate.
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Its not becuase of his performances that he got an A contract. The players negotiated with pcb that any player that has been a captain previously will get an A contract. This mostly was done for Afridi, Misbah and YK as they all play only one format and would not have qualified for an A contract otherwise.
Hafeez and Malik benefitted from this rule as ex captains.

Sent from my SM-G925I
 
msb314 said:
Please stop fighting lol
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If you have read the sequence, you are doing a bit injustice to me here. I decided to quit once he brought irrelevant points "Now take your constantly in need of validation, mousey ass and crawl back to your hole, where you can continue to pretend to act like a tiger in familiar surroundings" -that's the LOOSER sign.
 
MMHS said:
If you have read the sequence, you are doing a bit injustice to me here. I decided to quit once he brought irrelevant points "Now take your constantly in need of validation, mousey ass and crawl back to your hole, where you can continue to pretend to act like a tiger in familiar surroundings" -that's the LOOSER sign.
Click to expand...

Sure it is.

I did warn you not to take personal digs.
 
MMHS said:
If you have read the sequence, you are doing a bit injustice to me here. I decided to quit once he brought irrelevant points "Now take your constantly in need of validation, mousey ass and crawl back to your hole, where you can continue to pretend to act like a tiger in familiar surroundings" -that's the LOOSER sign.
Click to expand...

miandadrules said:
Sure it is.

I did warn you not to take personal digs.
Click to expand...

My comment was directed at both of you.

Please do not fight - especially over stupid things lol
 
msb314 said:
My comment was directed at both of you.

Please do not fight - especially over stupid things lol
Click to expand...

I didn't consider it a fight.

Read the sequence, I addressed each of his points and explained my position clearly.

I kindly stated that if he wants to continue in throwing insults I will oblige.

Now he has started again.
 
Great knock by Malik today. 37 off just 24 balls when every other batsman seems to didn't have any clue on how to score at this pitch. Well done! Malik's golden patch continues. [MENTION=134608]Hawkeye[/MENTION] so what happened to Pakistni youngsters?I thought they would smash non quality Zimbabwean bowlers on a flat pitch? :13: It looks like Malik has saved our heads again.
 
MRSN said:
Great knock by Malik today. 37 off just 24 balls when every other batsman seems to didn't have any clue on how to score at this pitch. Well done! Malik's golden patch continues. [MENTION=134608]Hawkeye[/MENTION] so what happened to Pakistni youngsters?I thought they would smash non quality Zimbabwean bowlers on a flat pitch? :13: It looks like Malik has saved our heads again.
Click to expand...

It looked like Malik was batting on a totally different pitch. He was reading the slowness far better than anyone else. Although he got out too early, it was still a good knock in the situation.
 
Stick to the topic [MENTION=1080]miandadrules[/MENTION] [MENTION=134608]Hawkeye[/MENTION] [MENTION=253]the Great Khan[/MENTION]
 
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