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Should gay couples have the same adoption rights as straight couples?

Should gay couples have the same adoption rights as straight couples?


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MenInG

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This is a new age phenomena in the West but is something being seen a lot - are you in favour of this?

Should Gay couples be allowed to adopt children at all?
 
No. I dont have any issues with gay marriages but a child needs to have a mother and a father. Not two fathers or two mothers.
 
No. Its a form of child abuse.

All kids draw mom and dad, this kid will draw dad & dad , get laughed at and builled.

A gay couple may well be loving and caring but this will not matter much for the kid, who will be made to feel different and not in a good way.

The west has lost the plot in many ways , this is up near at the top of the tree.
 
Do whatever you two do between yourself but don't bring up a child in a very abnormal household for him/her. Child will grow into a mentally challenged one and its nothing but cruelty.
 
It's an interesting topic.

I understand everyone's apprehension but it's probably best to look at it logically.

You have to start with the orphan's perspective. These kids are alone in the world with no one to call mom or dad. Keeping that in mind, perhaps any loving family is better than their current situation.

They don't get to choose between a gay couple and a heterosexual couple. It's sometimes between a gay couple and nothing. In that case, most will still want a family and will get used to that being "normal" as they grow up.

Almost all of us speak from privilege with traditional families. Orphans don't get that and are often put through terrible situations especially in 3rd world countries.
 
The most important ingredient a child needs is love, the kind that is nurturing, supportive and enduring. If two moms or two dads are able to provide that, chances are that child will turn out just fine.

Is it more convenient if a child has a mom and a dad? Yes, the child will face less resistance in society particularly when encountering close minded people of which there are many.

By now, there are countless examples of happy children with gay parents and miserable children with straight parents so this is no longer a hypothetical question, there is data and facts.
 
No. I dont have any issues with gay marriages but a child needs to have a mother and a father. Not two fathers or two mothers.

No. Its a form of child abuse.

All kids draw mom and dad, this kid will draw dad & dad , get laughed at and builled.

A gay couple may well be loving and caring but this will not matter much for the kid, who will be made to feel different and not in a good way.

The west has lost the plot in many ways , this is up near at the top of the tree.

Do whatever you two do between yourself but don't bring up a child in a very abnormal household for him/her. Child will grow into a mentally challenged one and its nothing but cruelty.

wow the mental gymnastics here

so according to you lot kids should be left at orphanages or possibly with parents who don't want them instead of allowing gay couples to adopt them?

Lots of kids all around the world grow up with single parents and that seems to be fine but when it comes to have two dads or two moms suddenly its wrong? Why?

There is nothing abnormal about gay couples. Children of gay couples don't grow up mentally challenged. Stop making up stupid excuse to support your right wing fundamentalist mind set.
 
This is a new age phenomena in the West but is something being seen a lot - are you in favour of this?

Should Gay couples be allowed to adopt children at all?

Yes. A loving home is a loving home, and two committed parents is always the best.
 
wow the mental gymnastics here

so according to you lot kids should be left at orphanages or possibly with parents who don't want them instead of allowing gay couples to adopt them?

Lots of kids all around the world grow up with single parents and that seems to be fine but when it comes to have two dads or two moms suddenly its wrong? Why?

There is nothing abnormal about gay couples. Children of gay couples don't grow up mentally challenged. Stop making up stupid excuse to support your right wing fundamentalist mind set.

These same people will ignore the question about just how normal is it really to have an abusive father, that is not present during the upbringing of a child, mistreats his wife, is a workaholic/alcoholic/chain smoker, hits/spanks when disciplining, cheats on his wife, etc. Or a mother with same or similar ailments. The damage caused by these very common traits specially in desi societies is far greater than having two moms or two dads.
 
All kids draw mom and dad, this kid will draw dad & dad, get laughed at and builled.

Only if the other kids’ parents are homophobic. Kids aren’t born hating, they have to be taught to hate.
 
Do whatever you two do between yourself but don't bring up a child in a very abnormal household for him/her. Child will grow into a mentally challenged one and its nothing but cruelty.

My ex. roommate was adopted and raised by two mothers, her real mother an indigenous woman abandoned her due to drug addiction. She is pursuing Masters in Counselling & Psychology at University of British Columbia. Covid restrictions were probably more mentally challenging for her as we both were working from home and fighting for living room lol.
 
My ex. roommate was adopted and raised by two mothers, her real mother an indigenous woman abandoned her due to drug addiction. She is pursuing Masters in Counselling & Psychology at University of British Columbia. Covid restrictions were probably more mentally challenging for her as we both were working from home and fighting for living room lol.

A very positive story.
 
If they are fit to be parents then sure why not. There is a lot of hetrosexual people in the world who have no business being parents.

There is millions of children in the world right now who live in horrificly abusive or neglectful situations or have no parents at all. Im sure they wouldnt care if they had two dads or two mothers.
 
100pct yes!!!

As long as the they are caring and loving and the child is brought up in a safe and nurturing environment then I'm absolutely for it! Better two have to loving parents, be it mum and dad, mum and mum or dad and dad then to have no parents at all.
 
Much better for a child to be raised by homosexual parents than to live in an orphanage. And in any case, children come out with trauma even with heterosexual parents. I don't think gender/sexuality is relevant.
 
They shouldn't be allowed to adopt. Because,
1. There are other heterosexual couples ready to adopt.

2. Homosexual household is the most unnatural thing that humans have ever done. Homosexuality existed in the past no doubt, but none was brain dead enough to start a family union based on such relation.

Also there's a high chance that the child would be indoctrinated with lgbt propaganda from an early age.

If the homosexual pair agrees to not indoctrinate the child with lgbt propaganda, to not force him/her to change gender, not expose the child to other homosexuals(potential pedophiles), then an argument might be made in favour of adoption. I still wont personally agree though as children shouldn't be brought up in such environment.
 
Only if the other kids’ parents are homophobic. Kids aren’t born hating, they have to be taught to hate.

A boy at 12-13, starts to feel things for the opposite gender. By 14-15, he has a strong desire of female companionship. That's just how the nature works. So in that glorious & beautiful age, when you're learning new things everyday and want to please those beautiful girls of your age, last thing you would want is to hang out with guys who drool over other guys.

Does being a gay warrant bullying? No, it dosen't. Nothing warrants bullying. But it's also important to note that students get bullied for lots and lots of reasons. Students get bullied for bad looks or extraordinary good looks, for being geeks, for having different haircut or sometimes just for absolutely no reason. All Schools are like that, uninviting & intimidating.
 
Well it depends on your opinion of same-sex couples and marriage first of all doesn't it.

If you accept same-sex marriage is ok then you should have no problems accepting gay adoption. There is no argument against it once you have made same-sex marriage the same as marriage between a man and a woman.

I don't like the idea of surrogate parents for gay couples or sperm donors so they have their own kid. To me if you are going to accept the concept then the first port of call should be adoption.

I said this to a gay colleague at work first who then replied if I would recommend adoption over IVF to a straight couple to which I replied yes if that is their preference.

He said that was bigotry and upon reflection it probably was....but only if you accept the permissibility of homosexuality.

I think in modern western countries once the state has accepted the equality of gay people then their should be no impediments in them pursuing a family life in the same way a straight person would. My personal opinion doesn't matter.
 
wow the mental gymnastics here

so according to you lot kids should be left at orphanages or possibly with parents who don't want them instead of allowing gay couples to adopt them?

Lots of kids all around the world grow up with single parents and that seems to be fine but when it comes to have two dads or two moms suddenly its wrong? Why?

There is nothing abnormal about gay couples. Children of gay couples don't grow up mentally challenged. Stop making up stupid excuse to support your right wing fundamentalist mind set.

So the choice you're giving to that unfortunate child, yes you will be given food and shelter but your DNA will be changed and you will grow up with very serious metal issues you will deal for rest of your life.

Food and shelter is not the only thing a child needs, he/she needs normal home , a mother and a father. two "moms" or two "dads" cannot proved a child normal upbringing and parenting , which even a single mom or dad can .
 
They shouldn't be allowed to adopt. Because,
1. There are other heterosexual couples ready to adopt.

2. Homosexual household is the most unnatural thing that humans have ever done. Homosexuality existed in the past no doubt, but none was brain dead enough to start a family union based on such relation.

Also there's a high chance that the child would be indoctrinated with lgbt propaganda from an early age.

If the homosexual pair agrees to not indoctrinate the child with lgbt propaganda, to not force him/her to change gender, not expose the child to other homosexuals(potential pedophiles), then an argument might be made in favour of adoption. I still wont personally agree though as children shouldn't be brought up in such environment.

Do you really believe this?
 
So the choice you're giving to that unfortunate child, yes you will be given food and shelter but your DNA will be changed and you will grow up with very serious metal issues you will deal for rest of your life.

Food and shelter is not the only thing a child needs, he/she needs normal home , a mother and a father. two "moms" or two "dads" cannot proved a child normal upbringing and parenting , which even a single mom or dad can .

DNA change via adoption by gay couples? What have I read here?
 
It's not up to me to decide if they should be allowed to. Would I approve of it? No. A heterosexual couple should always be preferred if there is the option. As things stand right now, I can see a situation arising where a gay couple will be given preference over the straight couple on account of equal opportunity. That is the lunacy of current thinking.
 
They shouldn't be allowed to adopt. Because,
1. There are other heterosexual couples ready to adopt.

2. Homosexual household is the most unnatural thing that humans have ever done. Homosexuality existed in the past no doubt, but none was brain dead enough to start a family union based on such relation.

Also there's a high chance that the child would be indoctrinated with lgbt propaganda from an early age.

If the homosexual pair agrees to not indoctrinate the child with lgbt propaganda, to not force him/her to change gender, not expose the child to other homosexuals(potential pedophiles), then an argument might be made in favour of adoption. I still wont personally agree though as children shouldn't be brought up in such environment.

Firstly, homosexual activity has been observed in over 200 species, more so among the advanced forms, and seems to keep things calm in pods of whales and troops of apes. So there is an evolutionary advantage to it and clearly “natural”.

Secondly there is no such thing as “LGBT propaganda”. There’s anti-discrimination law though. Illegal for a gay couple to be denied adoption rights in the UK.

Thirdly, kids either grow up straight or gay. The orientation of their parents has nothing to do with it. Else gay people would not come from straight parents families.

Fourthly, paedophilia has nothing to do with homosexuality or heterosexuality. Homosexuality and heterosexuality is consensual between adults. Paedophilia is child rape.
 
There is an inherent bias in some of the posts here. Don't you think there are abusive households in LGBTQ? Or do you think that happens only in hetero households? There was a talk of single parents in hetero households. Don't you think gays seperate?

If you want to look at this objectively, you have to associate the same societal disfunctionality and ills with hetero and homo couples. I'm not even discussing the stigma associated with gay couples.

Dibs on adoption should go to heterosexual parents as is the case in many countries. That is because a child deserves to be in a simple home with a mother and a father.
 
Personally,
I wouldn't want my child to be raised by two gay men.

Rest are free to make their choices, and I don't have an issue with it.
 
No gay couples shouldn't be allowed to adopt children.

They are free to do whatever they want among themselves but shouldn't be allowed to mess up with a child's mind.
 
wow the mental gymnastics here

so according to you lot kids should be left at orphanages or possibly with parents who don't want them instead of allowing gay couples to adopt them?

Lots of kids all around the world grow up with single parents and that seems to be fine but when it comes to have two dads or two moms suddenly its wrong? Why?

There is nothing abnormal about gay couples. Children of gay couples don't grow up mentally challenged. Stop making up stupid excuse to support your right wing fundamentalist mind set
.

The first part of your post is very poor. Kids are suffering all over the world, of course they should be helped but this has nothing to do with with topic. Besides there are enough male/femal couples, its not Gays are coming to the rescue lol.

Only if the other kids’ parents are homophobic. Kids aren’t born hating, they have to be taught to hate.

Most parents will not discuss this with their kids at the age of 5/6. Children arent as stupid as you think, they will see their classmates being picked up by mom and dad. They will see their freinds drawing mom and dad, they will then ask why is he/she drawing dad and dad.

The problem with the above posts is it assumes same sex couples are perfectly natural and normal, simply not true.


Please answer this.

We also now have throuples. 3 people living together in an intimate relationship. Should they also be allowed to adopt?
 
Firstly, homosexual activity has been observed in over 200 species, more so among the advanced forms, and seems to keep things calm in pods of whales and troops of apes. So there is an evolutionary advantage to it and clearly “natural”.

Secondly there is no such thing as “LGBT propaganda”. There’s anti-discrimination law though. Illegal for a gay couple to be denied adoption rights in the UK.

Thirdly, kids either grow up straight or gay. The orientation of their parents has nothing to do with it. Else gay people would not come from straight parents families.

Fourthly, paedophilia has nothing to do with homosexuality or heterosexuality. Homosexuality and heterosexuality is consensual between adults. Paedophilia is child rape.

If it's so "natural" for "evolution" to provide kids for gay couples, why are they still relying on heterosexual biology to provide kids to homosexual couples? Science is fantastic in many ways, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.
 
The first part of your post is very poor. Kids are suffering all over the world, of course they should be helped but this has nothing to do with with topic. Besides there are enough male/femal couples, its not Gays are coming to the rescue lol.



Most parents will not discuss this with their kids at the age of 5/6. Children arent as stupid as you think, they will see their classmates being picked up by mom and dad. They will see their freinds drawing mom and dad, they will then ask why is he/she drawing dad and dad.

The problem with the above posts is it assumes same sex couples are perfectly natural and normal, simply not true.


Please answer this.

We also now have throuples. 3 people living together in an intimate relationship. Should they also be allowed to adopt?

1. The problem with the above post is that it assumes every same sex couple is mentally challenged.

2. 3 people living together has nothing to do with same sex. Polygamy and homosexuality are two totally different aspects.
 
If it's so "natural" for "evolution" to provide kids for gay couples, why are they still relying on heterosexual biology to provide kids to homosexual couples? Science is fantastic in many ways, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.

Not what I posted.

Said that homosexual behaviour appears to have a role in keeping family groups together, preventing violence, and that is more visibly prevalent in more advanced zoological species.
 
This is true. Modern west seems highly confused.

They have lost the plot with a lot of things actually.

I think we are relearning the plot. Feminism, gay rights, anti-racism, sociology, psychotherapy, rave culture, ecology - these are all corrective factors.

Where we went wrong was the proliferation of Abrahamic religion that brought patriarchy, dominator culture, suppression of the female side of the human psyche. This has pushed the human species to the brink of self-destruction but we are finding ways to step back from the ledge. Not a moment too soon.
 
No gay couples shouldn't be allowed to adopt children.

They are free to do whatever they want among themselves but shouldn't be allowed to mess up with a child's mind.

What makes you think they are more likely to mess up a child’s mind than a straight couple? There are vast numbers of bad straight parents - abusers, alcoholics, narcissists.
 
The first part of your post is very poor. Kids are suffering all over the world, of course they should be helped but this has nothing to do with with topic. Besides there are enough male/femal couples, its not Gays are coming to the rescue lol.



Most parents will not discuss this with their kids at the age of 5/6. Children arent as stupid as you think, they will see their classmates being picked up by mom and dad. They will see their freinds drawing mom and dad, they will then ask why is he/she drawing dad and dad.

The problem with the above posts is it assumes same sex couples are perfectly natural and normal, simply not true.


Please answer this.

We also now have throuples. 3 people living together in an intimate relationship. Should they also be allowed to adopt?

Thought I did, may have been deleted.

I have no problem with multiple parents as long as they show love. Marriage is a modern invention. For 100,000 years, children were raised by the entire hunter-gatherer tribe. More recently the hippy communes tried the same thing.

Kids will accept other kids drawing dad & dad or mum & mum as natural, until straight parents tell them it is bad.
 
No. Its a form of child abuse.

All kids draw mom and dad, this kid will draw dad & dad , get laughed at and builled.

A gay couple may well be loving and caring but this will not matter much for the kid, who will be made to feel different and not in a good way.

The west has lost the plot in many ways , this is up near at the top of the tree.

Nonsense as usual.

First of all, telling children they'll burn in hell for going against the teachings of an archaic book is child abuse, not having parents who happen to be of the same sex.

Secondly, the scientific literature is clear in the fact that same-sex parents are no worse than the alternative.

https://srcd.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/cdev.13442

Our findings lend partial support to the prediction that the quality of parenting in gay father families would be higher than in heterosexual parent families. The only variable that differed between the two family types was reciprocal interaction on the observational measure, with greater levels of reciprocity observed between gay fathers and their children than between heterosexual parents and their children. However, there were no differences between the gay father and heterosexual parent families for the other variables derived from the observational, interview or questionnaire assessment of parenting quality. Moreover, the hypothesis that gay fathers would show more positive mental health than heterosexual parents was not supported by the findings. As predicted, there were no significant differences between the gay father and lesbian mother families for any of the measures of parenting quality or parental mental health.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4091994/

We conclude that there is a clear consensus in the social science literature indicating that American children living within same-sex parent households fare just, as well as those children residing within different-sex parent households over a wide array of well-being measures: academic performance, cognitive development, social development, psychological health, early sexual activity, and substance abuse.
 
Nonsense as usual.

First of all, telling children they'll burn in hell for going against the teachings of an archaic book is child abuse.

Mucked my head up no end. Took decades to get that mind-virus cleared out.
 
I think we are relearning the plot. Feminism, gay rights, anti-racism, sociology, psychotherapy, rave culture, ecology - these are all corrective factors.

Where we went wrong was the proliferation of Abrahamic religion that brought patriarchy, dominator culture, suppression of the female side of the human psyche. This has pushed the human species to the brink of self-destruction but we are finding ways to step back from the ledge. Not a moment too soon.

Not true.

Your argument has holes and flaws.
 
Look, there is a lot of gymnastics in this thread - child welfare, straight couples getting preference etc.

Many of us are in straight relationships/marriages - if there was such a concern for child welfare we would be queuing up outside adoption centres.

The reality is that Muslims believe it's impermissible solely from a religious perspective, because it's not permissible to be in a same sex relationship. ANy other argument that is being made in this thread is heavily influenced by this and twisted to suit this belief.

Own the belief instead of making up arguments.
 
Look, there is a lot of gymnastics in this thread - child welfare, straight couples getting preference etc.

Many of us are in straight relationships/marriages - if there was such a concern for child welfare we would be queuing up outside adoption centres.

The reality is that Muslims believe it's impermissible solely from a religious perspective, because it's not permissible to be in a same sex relationship. ANy other argument that is being made in this thread is heavily influenced by this and twisted to suit this belief.

Own the belief instead of making up arguments.

There are valid arguments against gay adoption regardless of religious beliefs.
 
Thought I did, may have been deleted.

I have no problem with multiple parents as long as they show love. Marriage is a modern invention. For 100,000 years, children were raised by the entire hunter-gatherer tribe. More recently the hippy communes tried the same thing.

Kids will accept other kids drawing dad & dad or mum & mum as natural, until straight parents tell them it is bad.

So 3 or 4 gay people living all together in an intimate relationship will be great parents for a child?

How you cannot understand the mental confusion of this child while growing up is astonoshining. I know you dont like to back down on a debate but please lets not go into another unviverse.
 
1. The problem with the above post is that it assumes every same sex couple is mentally challenged.

2. 3 people living together has nothing to do with same sex. Polygamy and homosexuality are two totally different aspects.

1. No it doesnt.

2. 3 gay people all men or all women, not mixed.
 
Nonsense as usual.

First of all, telling children they'll burn in hell for going against the teachings of an archaic book is child abuse, not having parents who happen to be of the same sex.

Secondly, the scientific literature is clear in the fact that same-sex parents are no worse than the alternative.

https://srcd.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/cdev.13442
]

Firstly this thread isnt another to entertain your irrational worries about Islam. Discuss this with the family.

Secondly, there arent enough studies or exmaples of long term effects or how the child has been made to feel at school or with other children.
 
Look, there is a lot of gymnastics in this thread - child welfare, straight couples getting preference etc.

Many of us are in straight relationships/marriages - if there was such a concern for child welfare we would be queuing up outside adoption centres.

The reality is that Muslims believe it's impermissible solely from a religious perspective, because it's not permissible to be in a same sex relationship. ANy other argument that is being made in this thread is heavily influenced by this and twisted to suit this belief.

Own the belief instead of making up arguments.

If I was an athiest I'd feel the same. The vast majority of humans from all communties are against this. Nobody wants lame lectures, just state your views and move on.
 
So 3 or 4 gay people living all together in an intimate relationship will be great parents for a child?

How you cannot understand the mental confusion of this child while growing up is astonoshining. I know you dont like to back down on a debate but please lets not go into another unviverse.

The child growing up will consider it completely normal as kids have no frame of reference save what they are born into.

Consider Professor William Marston who created Wonder Woman. He lived with his wife and mistress and had kids by both. The kids were fine.
 
If I was an athiest I'd feel the same.

I doubt that. You would likely have an entirely different perspective, based on a humanist moral sense of what is good for people, rather than what a book of scripture says is good for them.
 
If I was an athiest I'd feel the same. The vast majority of humans from all communties are against this. Nobody wants lame lectures, just state your views and move on.

The lame lecturers are from you guys twisting and stretching things to suit your bias.

Im a muslim. My position is clear. Its the opinion of traditional Islam. Dont need the mumbo jumbo your are posting to justify it. You should have the balls to say its because of Islam that you feel its wrong.

Howevr if you are a non muslim or believer in Gay marriage like Rhony then you have no leg to stand on.
 
The child growing up will consider it completely normal as kids have no frame of reference save what they are born into.

Consider Professor William Marston who created Wonder Woman. He lived with his wife and mistress and had kids by both. The kids were fine.

wonder woman lol.

A child going to school telling his/her friends he/she has 3 or 4 dads would be laughed at. Children will quickly reaslise this isnt normal and this will then cause them issues in the mind.

I doubt that. You would likely have an entirely different perspective, based on a humanist moral sense of what is good for people, rather than what a book of scripture says is good for them.

I didnt believe in God even being born into a Muslim family, until I reserached the faith.
 
The lame lecturers are from you guys twisting and stretching things to suit your bias.

Im a muslim. My position is clear. Its the opinion of traditional Islam. Dont need the mumbo jumbo your are posting to justify it. You should have the balls to say its because of Islam that you feel its wrong.

Howevr if you are a non muslim or believer in Gay marriage like Rhony then you have no leg to stand on.

Im not going to lie to make you feel better about yourself.

Again, most of the human race doesnt feel this is normal. For you and others it could be religioius, for others it could be a different reason.
 
Not true.

Your argument has holes and flaws.

Islam is an Abrahamic religion.

It has more rights for females than entire Western realm.

The problem is females having rights in West is loosely translated into "objectification of women for sexual gratification of men".

Cheerleaders, pole dancers, pornogrpahy, nudity, lesbianism, skimpiness, shamelessness is all the result of Western ideology.

What went wrong in those times was female infanticide and no rights for females.

What is wrong now is for everyone to see.
 
wonder woman lol.

A child going to school telling his/her friends he/she has 3 or 4 dads would be laughed at. Children will quickly reaslise this isnt normal and this will then cause them issues in the mind.

You’re just repeating yourself now, you’re not countering my points.

I didnt believe in God even being born into a Muslim family, until I reserached the faith.

Interesting to learn that, but you clearly were inculcated with one-god homophobia anyway. As I say, kids accept what their parents consider normal. It doesn’t change my point that if you have arrived at humanist atheism through philosophy and consideration, you would have a different perspective.
 
Islam is an Abrahamic religion.

It has more rights for females than entire Western realm.

The problem is females having rights in West is loosely translated into "objectification of women for sexual gratification of men".

Cheerleaders, pole dancers, pornogrpahy, nudity, lesbianism, skimpiness, shamelessness is all the result of Western ideology.

What went wrong in those times was female infanticide and no rights for females.

What is wrong now is for everyone to see.

Western society is patriarchal like Islam, because it is based on Judao-Christianity. There’s no goddess in any of them, so these societies consider femaleness to be second-class. Hence the exploitation you describe. Plenty (not all) of Muslim societies also oppress women.

I assure you that lesbianism is not a modern invention but older than the human species.

Nothing you have said refutes any of my points.
 
Mucked my head up no end. Took decades to get that mind-virus cleared out.

I was raised religious, as I come from a conservative Pakistani background. Luckily, homosexuality wasn't mentioned too much at home. I was entirely indifferent until I saw how horribly the gay kid at school was bullied. Ever since then, I've always been very supportive.

The fact that you overcame that is very commendable. It is so hard to break indoctrination.
 
Western society is patriarchal like Islam, because it is based on Judao-Christianity. There’s no goddess in any of them, so these societies consider femaleness to be second-class. Hence the exploitation you describe. Plenty (not all) of Muslim societies also oppress women.

I assure you that lesbianism is not a modern invention but older than the human species.

Nothing you have said refutes any of my points.

Are there any non-Abrahamic faith countries where they aren't patriarchal? India has goddesses, it's certainly not Abrahamic, but it's as patriarchal as most Abrahamic countries as far as I can see.
 
Firstly this thread isnt another to entertain your irrational worries about Islam. Discuss this with the family.

Secondly, there arent enough studies or exmaples of long term effects or how the child has been made to feel at school or with other children.

I referred to general theism, not Islam exclusively. Stop being a perpetual victim.

Wow. So you didn't even click on the link? The first study went up to early adolescence. Do you not even know what a longitudinal study is? There are no identified 'long-term effects', otherwise gay adoption would easily be made illegal. Whether or not people will bully someone over something is not a reason not to do it. By your logic, parents shouldn't raise their children Muslim because some people could bully them for it.

You also mention in another post that so many cultures are against it. That used to be the case, sure, but that isn't anymore. But that would be an argumentum ad populum fallacy, so it doesn't even make sense even if it was the case. It's also an appeal to tradition, which is another fallacy. Let's suppose the majority of the world hated Islam, would that justify not allowing for Muslim immigration? Of course not.
 
Are there any non-Abrahamic faith countries where they aren't patriarchal? India has goddesses, it's certainly not Abrahamic, but it's as patriarchal as most Abrahamic countries as far as I can see.

The thing with Hinduism, and the other Eastern religions, is that it's primarily a philosophy. It is an amalgamation of mythology, philosophy, myth and legend of over 5000 years. There aren't prescriptive (or at least nearly not as much) statements as there are in Abrahamic faiths. There certainly can be patriarchal readings of the religion, but it is far less cut-and-dry than Abrahamic faiths.

Of course, an educated secular society is far less patriarchal than a religious one.
 
Ok I can see where some usual suspects are going to take this thread towards.

This thread is NOT about religious aspects so dont stray towards that side of things.
 
The thing with Hinduism, and the other Eastern religions, is that it's primarily a philosophy. It is an amalgamation of mythology, philosophy, myth and legend of over 5000 years. There aren't prescriptive (or at least nearly not as much) statements as there are in Abrahamic faiths. There certainly can be patriarchal readings of the religion, but it is far less cut-and-dry than Abrahamic faiths.

Of course, an educated secular society is far less patriarchal than a religious one.

Yes they are, but they are still patriarchal and I don't see that changing. Women are generally still more attracted to manly men, and men are still mostly attracted to feminine women. But there is room for the rest as a sideshow type of thing.
 
Not too sure on this one TBH. I am all for LGBTQ+ having all the same rights and everybody else but we are talking about a kids development here as well. Gotta look at the kids rights as well. Not sure what kind of impact(psychological) having gay parents would have on a kid. Then again I'd rather a kid go to a loving family than be raised in foster care...
 
Are there any non-Abrahamic faith countries where they aren't patriarchal? India has goddesses, it's certainly not Abrahamic, but it's as patriarchal as most Abrahamic countries as far as I can see.

It’s an interesting point. You’d have to go back past the Abrahamic sky-god religions to find a civilisation that wasn’t patriarchal. Perhaps patriarchy began with the move from hunter-gatherer to city-state.
 
Ok I can see where some usual suspects are going to take this thread towards.

This thread is NOT about religious aspects so dont stray towards that side of things.

Moral questions are obviously related to religion. The debate is between religious people and irreligious people.
 
So the choice you're giving to that unfortunate child, yes you will be given food and shelter but your DNA will be changed and you will grow up with very serious metal issues you will deal for rest of your life.

Food and shelter is not the only thing a child needs, he/she needs normal home , a mother and a father. two "moms" or two "dads" cannot proved a child normal upbringing and parenting , which even a single mom or dad can .

DNA will be changed? lol. Bhai aap ne science konse third rate village ke school se parhi bai?

How stupid do you have to be to think of a kid is adopted by gay parents his/her DNA will change? lol

Also, what makes you think children will grow up with mental issues just because they’re adopted by homosexual parents. The way you are writing things it seems as though you grew up with severe mental issues even though you didn’t have homosexual parents.
 
If a single parent can bring up a child, I am sure gay couples will be able to do that as well.
 
If the homosexual pair agrees to not indoctrinate the child with lgbt propaganda, to not force him/her to change gender, not expose the child to other homosexuals(potential pedophiles), then an argument might be made in favour of adoption.

This is like saying daughters should be kept away from their fathers. Who knows they might go full pedo on them.
 
I am mega against this gay stuff but if u gonna allow society with gay ppl, might as well let them have the rights of adopting. With this tik tok, selfie, meme generation, whats the worse?
Some orphan kid will get a chance at life. If I was an orphan I would have prefered some sort of parents who would want me rather than no body.
 
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Yes they are, but they are still patriarchal and I don't see that changing. Women are generally still more attracted to manly men, and men are still mostly attracted to feminine women. But there is room for the rest as a sideshow type of thing.

That's difficult to quantify. And it depends what a 'manly man' or 'feminine woman' is. That is ultimately arbitrary, and a societal thing, which shifts every time. There has been a lot of talk of 'toxic masculinity', so I'd wager that 'manly' men are not as desirable as they once were.
 
The claim that society (influenced by religion) is based on a patriarchal structure, so what? If one is going to use nature to justify homosexuality, then may i remind you, in nature, the male is the dominant specie - move on. Furthermore, nature has many examples of ‘rape’, ‘murder’, and ‘maiming’ - should these natural acts be justifiable in human society?

The question of whether of 2 Homosexual parents are better than hetrosexual because of love, is horespukky. For example, the evidence clearly suggests that the majority of black criminals were raised in a home where the father was absent. Think about it, father was not present, mother loves her child, yet the child turns up breaking the law. What good is love?

To add, a child raised by homosexual couples is indeed suffering from confusion. Remember the child walks into his science class where he is taught that a male and female are necessary to procreate, but when said child comes homes, it’s a different ball game.

Oh by the way, check the laws and advisory on UK adoption. White parents have more chance adopting white children, than black, and vice versa. Why? If love is all that matters, then why the resistance?

The excuse about love is just that, an excuse; there’s more to parenting than love.
 
This is like saying daughters should be kept away from their fathers. Who knows they might go full pedo on them.

And from their mothers too. Plenty of female paedophiles out there, sadly.
 
That's difficult to quantify. And it depends what a 'manly man' or 'feminine woman' is. That is ultimately arbitrary, and a societal thing, which shifts every time. There has been a lot of talk of 'toxic masculinity', so I'd wager that 'manly' men are not as desirable as they once were.

You can quantify it by seeing what people pay money for at the cinemas and tv subscriptions. When we get a gay James Bond, or a butch beauty queen who snarls like a pit bull, then I think you can say that people's real views have genuinely changed. At the moment it's still a tolerated sideshow, which is not bad in itself. Still progress of sorts.
 
The question of whether of 2 Homosexual parents are better than hetrosexual because of love, is horespukky.

The difference between homosexual parents and heterosexual parents comes in when there is a choice.

For a orphan, there is none.

If the option is homosexual (and absence of heterosexual), the argument doesn't come in to play since the other element isn't present in the equation.
 
The difference between homosexual parents and heterosexual parents comes in when there is a choice.

For a orphan, there is none.

If the option is homosexual (and absence of heterosexual), the argument doesn't come in to play since the other element isn't present in the equation.

Your argument doesn’t come into play as you have selected my quote out of context.

Jog on.
 
Not too sure on this one TBH. I am all for LGBTQ+ having all the same rights and everybody else but we are talking about a kids development here as well. Gotta look at the kids rights as well. Not sure what kind of impact(psychological) having gay parents would have on a kid. Then again I'd rather a kid go to a loving family than be raised in foster care...

This is a very important point. The more loving and responsible couples who are rendered eligible to adopt children and can be encouraged to come forward and take on this enormous, and deeply honourable, responsibility, the better.

Otherwise more children who have been given atrocious starts in life by completely unfit parents continue to be processed by social services and just grow up in foster homes, in orphanages and in other care systems.

Regardless of what one thinks about adoption by gay couples, open relationship couples, other kinds of couples and such, it is still a fact that the children in care will have a statistically far higher chance of experiencing problems in forming friendships and relationships, getting physically, sexually and emotionally abused by various parties, developing physical and mental problems in life, having negative educational outcomes, of committing criminal acts, of being drawn into gangs both as juveniles and as adults, etc.

This is not to say that there are not huge and very real success stories that have become synonymous with individual children who also grew up in care. Of course there are. These tales are an inspiration. But it is, by all accounts, amongst the toughest of systems and places in which to spend one’s youth, and with generally poorer outcomes than through any form of adoption.
 
I think we are relearning the plot. Feminism, gay rights, anti-racism, sociology, psychotherapy, rave culture, ecology - these are all corrective factors.

Where we went wrong was the proliferation of Abrahamic religion that brought patriarchy, dominator culture, suppression of the female side of the human psyche. This has pushed the human species to the brink of self-destruction but we are finding ways to step back from the ledge. Not a moment too soon.

Lmao, the arrogance on this one. For thousands of years, human civilizations were full of idiots but modern western civilization has figured out the truth now. You've been taken for a ride.
 
The claim that society (influenced by religion) is based on a patriarchal structure, so what? If one is going to use nature to justify homosexuality, then may i remind you, in nature, the male is the dominant specie - move on. Furthermore, nature has many examples of ‘rape’, ‘murder’, and ‘maiming’ - should these natural acts be justifiable in human society?

The question of whether of 2 Homosexual parents are better than hetrosexual because of love, is horespukky. For example, the evidence clearly suggests that the majority of black criminals were raised in a home where the father was absent. Think about it, father was not present, mother loves her child, yet the child turns up breaking the law. What good is love?

To add, a child raised by homosexual couples is indeed suffering from confusion. Remember the child walks into his science class where he is taught that a male and female are necessary to procreate, but when said child comes homes, it’s a different ball game.

Oh by the way, check the laws and advisory on UK adoption. White parents have more chance adopting white children, than black, and vice versa. Why? If love is all that matters, then why the resistance?

The excuse about love is just that, an excuse; there’s more to parenting than love.

They will pick and choose whatever backs their surface level arguments. There's no depth to their scholarship.
 
Adoption- Yes
Surrogation - No

Renting a womb(in most cases women in poor country who uses money for family support) for having their own child is quite moronic and is rightly banned in many countries. There is a documentary on how some Doctors and Gay couples from US were exploiting women in India for surrogacy until govt of India banned it.
 
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