Should India's record against Pakistan since 2003 be better than it actually is?

[Savak]

For me the 2003 ODI WC Centurion game between the two teams represented the turn of the tide in Indo Pak contests and since 2003, India has been the better team with the better talent.

However when i examine the records. Pakistan has beaten India in only 18 ODI's, 3 T20's and 3 Test matches. In contrast India has beaten Pakistan in 26 ODI's, 9 T20's and 3 Test matches

In spite of having the better talent India has only beaten Pakistan in 8 more ODI's and 6 more T-20's in the last 2 decades which i would find very disappointing. This is not like the Australia or South African domination of Pakistan

 

[ArabKnight]

India isn’t good as it thinks.

They get away like cheats as in Mohali ‘11.

 

[Devadwal]

For me the 2003 ODI WC Centurion game between the two teams represented the turn of the tide in Indo Pak contests and since 2003, India has been the better team with the better talent.

However when i examine the records. Pakistan has beaten India in only 18 ODI's, 3 T20's and 3 Test matches. In contrast India has beaten Pakistan in 26 ODI's, 9 T20's and 3 Test matches

In spite of having the better talent India has only beaten Pakistan in 8 more ODI's and 6 more T-20's in the last 2 decades which i would find very disappointing. This is not like the Australia or South African domination of Pakistan

Pakistan was strong team until 2012-13 .after that we has only played in multiple team tournaments like Asia cup or ICC tournaments

 

[Savak]

Pakistan was strong team until 2012-13 .

That's not true. India's batting has always been superior vs Pakistan's in the last 2 decades.

 

[Devadwal]

That's not true. India's batting has always been superior vs Pakistan's in the last 2 decades.

Indian bowling was not so great . there is reason why india- Pakistan contest were india batting vs Pakistan bowling.

 

[160KPH]

The last ODI series we played against them, Nasir Jamshed out batted all of their legends - Gambhir, Sehwag, Kohli, Dohni, Yuvraj, Raina etc.

Tells me everything I need to know.

 

[rickroll]

For me the 2003 ODI WC Centurion game between the two teams represented the turn of the tide in Indo Pak contests and since 2003, India has been the better team with the better talent.

However when i examine the records. Pakistan has beaten India in only 18 ODI's, 3 T20's and 3 Test matches. In contrast India has beaten Pakistan in 26 ODI's, 9 T20's and 3 Test matches

In spite of having the better talent India has only beaten Pakistan in 8 more ODI's and 6 more T-20's in the last 2 decades which i would find very disappointing. This is not like the Australia or South African domination of Pakistan

Isn't this just a function of the teams not playing as many times since 2003? Perhaps if they had played more (as was the norm before 2010s) then this win-lose gap would have been wider to reflect the skill gap as you suggest?

 

[mominsaigol]

The last ODI series we played against them, Nasir Jamshed out batted all of their legends - Gambhir, Sehwag, Kohli, Dohni, Yuvraj, Raina etc.

Tells me everything I need to know.

Gambhir and sehwag never played again after that series. They were a spent Force though, literally a spent Force.

Yuvi was so out of it, he didn't make a comeback until 2014, the guy was suffering from major fitness issues and was clueless at batting. Raina was also cimpletly out of it with 2012 being his worst year in general. Avg of 41 may look good on paper until you realise his highest score in 2012 was 65 and most of the scoring came against Sri Lanka at the time. Excluding Sri lanka he avg like 16 lol. Truth is after sachin's retirment whole team was banking on kohli and Dhoni to do heavy lifting and kohli didn't perform well.

Nasir jamshed is one of the worst openers I've ever seen lol, he scored well against a brand new bhuvi who wasn't anywhere close to the bowler he was in later years shami as well Besides bhuvi and shami, every other bowler was a spent Force or a complete newbie and not the caliber that they were in later years.

The only time we really beat a full strength Prime India since the past decade was in CT 2017 and Asia cup 2014.

2021 and 2022 India was not a full strength, in 2021 Rahul and rohit were a spent Force at opening with rohit now coming back to form, Bunrah got injured afterwards and was basically like 5% in 2021 which is why he got thrashed so badly, dude could barely run and bowl at pace.

2012 was in a transition stage and, 2021 was also in a transition stage in regards to captaincy changes and injuries and 2022 was when they were playing with B string due to aged player injuries and were hunting for fresh blood to replace some of their former players like dhawan and find a suitable replacement for Rahul at opening while Rahul shifts to the middle.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Didn’t play enough ODI series else the record would have been 50-50 by now already

 

[160KPH]

Gambhir and sehwag never played again after that series. They were a spent Force though, literally a spent Force.

Yuvi was so out of it, he didn't make a comeback until 2014, the guy was suffering from major fitness issues and was clueless at batting. Raina was also cimpletly out of it with 2012 being his worst year in general. Avg of 41 may look good on paper until you realise his highest score in 2012 was 65 and most of the scoring came against Sri Lanka at the time. Excluding Sri lanka he avg like 16 lol. Truth is after sachin's retirment whole team was banking on kohli and Dhoni to do heavy lifting and kohli didn't perform well.

Nasir jamshed is one of the worst openers I've ever seen lol, he scored well against a brand new bhuvi who wasn't anywhere close to the bowler he was in later years shami as well Besides bhuvi and shami, every other bowler was a spent Force or a complete newbie and not the caliber that they were in later years.

The only time we really beat a full strength Prime India since the past decade was in CT 2017 and Asia cup 2014.

2021 and 2022 India was not a full strength, in 2021 Rahul and rohit were a spent Force at opening with rohit now coming back to form, Bunrah got injured afterwards and was basically like 5% in 2021 which is why he got thrashed so badly, dude could barely run and bowl at pace.

2012 was in a transition stage and, 2021 was also in a transition stage in regards to captaincy changes and injuries and 2022 was when they were playing with B string due to aged player injuries and were hunting for fresh blood to replace some of their former players like dhawan and find a suitable replacement for Rahul at opening while Rahul shifts to the middle.

By the argument you’re making, no team is ever at full strength. Pakistan spent most of the 2010s rotating batsmen and bowlers - more so than India did.

 

[mominsaigol]

By the argument you’re making, no team is ever at full strength. Pakistan spent most of the 2010s rotating batsmen and bowlers - more so than India did.

Never said that.

We did beat a full strength India during CT and during 2014 Asia cup.

As for Pakistan, we are never at full strength lol, because our management is brainless, we don't groom players properly or apply unfair selection criterias. Like it doesn't take a genius to figure out that your 2 best test batsmen saud and Abdullah in sri lanka test shpuld have played all 3 games against afg and asia cup for pre match practise rather then shoving them in last minute just because we liked an put of form fakhar and agha. This is world cup, no time for miracles hoping someone out of form or useless will come good, only in 2017 we were at full strength and even then it took us 3 games to realise shehzad was dead baggage. Atm our some members in our bench and reserves are superior to our mains. Usama is > Shadab, Abrar based on his test and List A form is > Nawaz who has been useless for 4 years now. Zaman is > Waseem Jr. Haris is > Some of our out of form batsmen like fakhar and can play as a specialist no 7, he need not compete with rizzu lol.

The sides in this cup that are at full strength are NZ, SA, India.

Eng losing roy and Archer is a massive massive blow. Aus is playing with an aged has been side, Smith + Warner are at the end of their ropes, Stark is quality but not the bowler he use to be from his golden days since 2014-2019.

Sri lanka is suffering from I juries especially hasaramga loss being a big blow. Bamgaldesh is a mess with shakib and mushfikar at their end as well.

No point talking about other sides since medtherlands and afg are at full strength but they simply ain't strong enough to compete so doesn't matter

 

[Mesozoic]

I think I've said this is in some other thread but the real change in tide came after the WT20 win in 2007. Beating Pakistan in the final in a close game after already beating them in group stages really gave the mental edge for the Indian teams from there on.

India has an impeccable 26-12 record against Pakistan since that tournament in all formats.