South Africa vs England | 4th test | Johannesburg | 14th-18th Jan 2010

[On_the_up]

Around 90 mins to go till the start of the final test. England fighting tooth and nail to still be ahead in this test series. It will be a great achievement if they managed to avoid defeat here and win in SA again.

 

[WithLoveFromCanada]

so you have lost hope already ? i am talking about Aus Pak match.

 

[On_the_up]

the tour ended for pakistan at sydney on the fourth day

 

[On_the_up]

England won toss and will bat.
Sidebottom in for onions, Mclaren and Parnell debut for SA.

 

[saffer]

Great. We loose the toss 6 times in a row to Australia and now 3 out of 4 against England.

 

[Keith]

Great. We loose the toss 6 times in a row to Australia and now 3 out of 4 against England.

Perhaps we should send somebody else to call the freaking toss!!!! We did that a number of occassions in club cricket after losing a few in a row!!!!

 

[s2k]

what is wayne parnells fastest ball?

 

[Keith]

What a catch!!!!!! 1st baller!!!!

 

[Keith]

7/2

 

[James]

7-2 and god knows what will happen next. If we get through the new ball with one or none more casualties, I still think there is a good chance of a big total. I'd rather bat first in a game we don't have to win, because it is more likely we will be able to control the game.

SA are playing two debutants? Could work, could backfire badly. Good decision to bring in Sidebottom, Onions has been pretty average on the tour overall. And Sidey did well in the warm-ups. And now we have 11 decent batsmen instead of 10, we get to bat ALL the way down...

 

[James]

nearly a run out, silly silly silly, might as well kiss the series goodbye if that had been out! screw your heads back on you tools!

 

[wanabee]

pieterson gone!

 

[James]

Absolute rubbish, just when a good partnership was building! You idiot! Let's hope Collingwood comes in and shows everyone some proper test cricket!

 

[wanabee]

i hope this test last for complete 5 days as im on bedrest for 10 days and got nothing else to watch

 

[Keith]

At last!!! 2 genuine englishman at the wicket at last!!!!

Jokes aside. That is going to be Piertersons nemises in test cricket, playing rash strokes. That was a shocker of a shot, especially considering the match situation and the series situation.

 

[James]

These two have pulled us out of a hole before. Come onnn I don't want to lose the match on the first day.

What is everyone's thought on the pitch? Carry, bounce and swing. What's a par score, 350?

 

[Luton Bad Boy]

At last!!! 2 genuine englishman at the wicket at last!!!!

Jokes aside. That is going to be Piertersons nemises in test cricket, playing rash strokes. That was a shocker of a shot, especially considering the match situation and the series situation.

All three South Africans are back in the pavillion.......for England

 

[Keith]

These two have pulled us out of a hole before. Come onnn I don't want to lose the match on the first day.

What is everyone's thought on the pitch? Carry, bounce and swing. What's a par score, 350?

At a minimum. Best days to bat are going to be day 2 and 3 and comfortably so.

The track has had nothing to do with the wickets though.

Strauss out to a stunning catch to an inspired field placing. Trott iditotically walked across his stumps and kp played a shocker. No demons in the pitch mate.

 

[Luton Bad Boy]

At a minimum. Best days to bat are going to be day 2 and 3 and comfortably so.

The track has had nothing to do with the wickets though.

Strauss out to a stunning catch to an inspired field placing. Trott iditotically walked across his stumps and kp played a shocker. No demons in the pitch mate.

Are you reading this Mohammad Yousaf....inspired field placing....three simple words

 

[James]

it was an absolute mare of a shot.

dodgy dismissal of Cook there. don't think we've heard the last of this!

 

[James]

there is no way you can give that out after the batting side has referred it. sickening, absolute garbage.

 

[Keith]

it was an absolute mare of a shot.

dodgy dismissal of Cook there. don't think we've heard the last of this!

Missed the dismissal!! What happended?

 

[shahzadddd]

1-0 (Strauss, 0.1 ov), 2-7 (Trott, 1.6 ov), 3-32 (Pietersen, 7.5 ov), 4-39 (Cook, 9.4 ov)

Currently 47-4 Collingwood 10 Bell 0

Collingwood and Bell will have to do a lot to bring it back from here.

 

[pak4life]

Daryl Harper is not fit to be an umpire howler after howler

 

[Amjid Javed]

So englands two heros from last test need to bail them out again!

 

[James]

Cook LBW Morkel, Cook referred it because he felt it could be a bit high and also to have a bit of a gamble. The ball was a stone dead LBW as it turned out, fair enough. But Morkel clearly overstepped on his run-up and it was replayed over and over again to the 3rd umpire to show him this. Therefore, the LBW should not stand. By this time, both the dressing rooms have seen and realised it is not out. But the dismissal stood. HOW???!!!?

Boycott is in the mood! He says decision to bat was naive, he called Trott an 'SA double agent' and dubbed his innings 'some of the worst batting ever', and called Harper 'the worst international umpire I've seen', LOL.

 

[ShehryarK]

Daryl Harper is not fit to be an umpire howler after howler

To be fair, this wasn't an obvious mistake. In real time, on-field, it was a VERY close call and many umpires could have given it out. Yes, Harper behind the camera might have over-turned it, but that too was far from 'conclusive'! Obviously, in general, you are right. Harper is not a good umpire, full stop.

 

[James]

I can see how it wasn't given out on the field, because it was a marginal no-ball. However, the referral system exists to spot what the on-field umpires have failed to spot, and the no-ball was replayed on a big screen in slow motion over and over again. absolutely unacceptable, a complete disgrace that should cost Harper (who is the 3rd umpire today) his place on the elite panel.

If the on-field umpire had given Cook not out, and the South Africans had referred it, the no-ball would have been spotted and it would not have been out. this is where the system gets hazy for me. how marginal can a decision be?

The referral system, overall, is a help. You just need umpires who aren't total morons to operate it.

 

[James]

On a positive note, Col is playing brilliantly!! Proving he can be an immovable object one day and go on the counter-attack the next. Does he ever come out at number 5 to a nice comfortable position?

 

[ShehryarK]

However, the referral system exists to spot what the on-field umpires have failed to spot, and the no-ball was replayed on a big screen in slow motion over and over again. absolutely unacceptable, a complete disgrace that should cost Harper (who is the 3rd umpire today) his place on the elite panel.

Absolutely no issues with your suggestion that Harper is not good enough to be on the Elite Panel. However, I would disagree that the no-ball was a definite. It was probably a no-ball - but if you read the Cricinfo commentary (written by Andrew Miller, an Englishman), and follow the discussion of South African fans, it appears that there exist reasonable grounds for doubt - ie, there is a body of opinion, perhaps a minority body, that supports Harper's call of not awarding the no-ball.

This would indicate that at best there is a millimetre or two in it; English supporters and many commentators believe it was no-ball. South Africans, and a few of the commentators, at least, believe it was not a no-ball. Hence, there was doubt - Harper gave the benefit of this doubt to the bowler (which might be the norm when it comes to judging no-balls... at least, it should be, IMHO).

Not an obvious howler then. The review system exists to correct obvious howlers, such as the one by Harper in the third Test. If it doesn't do that, the third umpire should be immediately sacked. In this instance, it was a debatable line call, with a millimetre in it - Harper might be wrong, but not obviously so.

 

[James]

'Reasonable grounds for doubt' you see. If the batsmen is given not out and it goes to referral, surely Harper sees that it is a marginal no-ball and gives the BATSMAN the benefit of the doubt. The umpires are flawed and so is their system.

 

[James]

SA have a team of bowlers, how are we going to win this? Steyn, Morkel, Parnell, Mclaren, Duminy, Kallis, even Smith can bowl a bit.

 

[ShehryarK]

'Reasonable grounds for doubt' you see. If the batsmen is given not out and it goes to referral, surely Harper sees that it is a marginal no-ball and gives the BATSMAN the benefit of the doubt.

Maybe that's how it should be - debatable, but I acknowledge that its a valid suggestion. My preference would be for the bowler to get the benefit of any doubt - again, completely subjective opinion.

In actual fact however, as the rules are currently drafted, it is the UMPIRE who gets the benefit of the doubt under the UDRS! That's definitely not how it should be.

As you say, the system is flawed and not perfect but at least its better than not having a system. Hopefully, these flaws will be ironed out as they come to light - its a new system.

 

[ShehryarK]

SA have a team of bowlers, how are we going to win this? Steyn, Morkel, Parnell, Mclaren, Duminy, Kallis, even Smith can bowl a bit.

If conditions continue to favour swing, Anderson and Sidebottom could be a handful too.

 

[Savak]

Sticking to Ntini was a huge blunder from the South Africans, they were literally playing a bowler short in the first 2 test matches. Barring that second test, South africans have pretty much dominated England for the whole series.

 

[James]

As it happens, the 1-0 statistic is the only one that matters. I think absolutely mullering them in one test shows that we're a good side and it makes up for a couple of tests on the back foot.

 

[James]

100-4 at lunch after 26 overs. I reckon a lot of overs will be lost in this match due to the overabundance of seamers, who can take a good 4 or 5 minutes to complete an over each time. Quite a good scoring rate actually. The wickets column is still dire but a good comeback so far.

PD Collingwood 44* (55b 5x4 2x6)

Great little knock! Can he dig us out of a hole again?

 

[Random Aussie]

Just on a side note, how badly is KP going? Been mentally shot since he lost the captaincy I think....

 

[Random Aussie]

Not sure which of these scum teams I want to see win.

 

[James]

From Andrew Dempsey, TMS inbox: "I don't know if these two can keep it up, but, if they steer us clear again I may consider dating a ginger."

 

[James]

Just on a side note, how badly is KP going? Been mentally shot since he lost the captaincy I think....

worst patch ever. another player would be on the verge of being dropped but I reckon they'll give him Bangladesh to get back into form.

 

[James]

Not sure which of these scum teams I want to see win.

how about a draw...and then England win the series

 

[Savak]

Just on a side note, how badly is KP going? Been mentally shot since he lost the captaincy I think....

Pieterson, i am very dissapointed with his evolution since 2005. He used to be an attacking free flowing player, if i was in the opposition, i would be crapping in my pants, he would take the match away from you in a matter of minutes. The Pieterson i enjoyed was the one that played the ashes in 2005.

But since then Pieterson has become a very boring batsman to watch, there is nothing exciting about watching him play, he bores the hell out of me with his more patient style of batting and i at times feel he is not a team player at all. I still remember him staying not out on most occasions on the ashes tour of 2007 when he would take a single of Mcgraths, Warne's, Lee's first ball and leave the tail exposed to the remaining 5 deliveries.

Pieterson i hope goes to his 2005 style of flamboyant, aggressive batting.

 

[Random Aussie]

worst patch ever. another player would be on the verge of being dropped but I reckon they'll give him Bangladesh to get back into form.

I think he needs to be dropped. Permanently. No point having him on the plane to Australia.

Should replace him with Ravi Bopara.

And Saj Mahmood would be a good replacement for Stuart Broad who is vastly overrated and won't improve.

While I am at it, Monty deserves a recall over Swan who won't do well here.

 

[ShehryarK]

I think he needs to be dropped. Permanently. No point having him on the plane to Australia.

Should replace him with Ravi Bopara.

And Saj Mahmood would be a good replacement for Stuart Broad who is vastly overrated and won't improve.

While I am at it, Monty deserves a recall over Swan who won't do well here.

LOL! You guys want another 5-0, or what!!

Saj Mahmood and Bopara are definitely not good enough for Test cricket. Panesar isn't half as good as Swann.

 

[James]

I think he needs to be dropped. Permanently. No point having him on the plane to Australia.

Should replace him with Ravi Bopara.

And Saj Mahmood would be a good replacement for Stuart Broad who is vastly overrated and won't improve.

While I am at it, Monty deserves a recall over Swan who won't do well here.

I agree, while we're at it we can dispense with the useless Watson, trundler Johnson, drop all the specialist spinners because that worked a treat in England. And as a supplement to the 'beginning of the end' thread, surely it's time for Punter to hang up his boots

 

[Keith]

Not sure which of these scum teams I want to see win.

Back SA mate, there are so many of them, on both sides, you are bound to choose the right 1!!!!

 

[Afridi_Fan]

We seem to be having a nice pre-ashes discussion in this thread.

 

[Afridi_Fan]

Colly gone. England in all sorts of trouble now. 115/5

 

[Khalil]

South Africa should England out for less than 200

 

[James]

Bell JUST grassed by Prince. Great sportsmanship from SA, some teams would have run off and celebrated that knowing that it was difficult for the umpires to see it. SA asked the umpires to decide.

there is swing, pace and bounce in this pitch, it's plain to see Keith

 

[Khalil]

there is swing, pace and bounce in this pitch

Thats what the groundsman said before the game. Poor decision by Strauss to elect to bat

 

[Keith]

Bell JUST grassed by Prince. Great sportsmanship from SA, some teams would have run off and celebrated that knowing that it was difficult for the umpires to see it. SA asked the umpires to decide.

there is swing, pace and bounce in this pitch, it's plain to see Keith

Not more than the usual wanderers strip mate. Has always been pacier and bouncier than any other tracks in SA. Not exactly an unknown factor!!!

Swing has got to do with atmospheric conditions and not the pitch!!

 

[James]

I think our bowlers might do well here.

 

[Khalil]

Swing has got to do with atmospheric conditions and not the pitch!!

The ball swings more at the coast than at high altitude, however the ball movers quicker through the air at high altitude.

The movement today at the Wanderers is due to the grass and moisture in the wicket.

 

[Afridi_Fan]

Some definate help for pace bowlers, even the ball is 30 odd overs old. I was really surprised at Strauss decision. When you are Last Day, Last Over, Last Ball and Last Wicket specialist why would you wanna change that?

 

[Khalil]

Bell Gone. I can see this game over in 3 days

 

[Afridi_Fan]

Bell gone. 133/6

 

[Keith]

The ball swings more at the coast than at high altitude, however the ball movers quicker through the air at high altitude.

The movement today at the Wanderers is due to the grass and moisture in the wicket.

Ok then, so before the ball touches the ground (swings in the air) it must be the grass and the moisture in the track? Hmmm. More to do with overhead conditions and perhaps the condition of the ball and the skill of the bowlers to extract that swing??

 

[Keith]

Another shocking shot. Prior gone. 137/7

 

[Afridi_Fan]

Prior gone. 139/7

 

[Keith]

Another stupid stroke. Could not have happened to a "nicer" bloke though!!!! Broadly speaking the cheat is out!!

 

[Afridi_Fan]

148/8

 

[Afridi_Fan]

157/9

 

[Muhammad]

Another stupid stroke. Could not have happened to a "nicer" bloke though!!!! Broadly speaking the cheat is out!!

Don't you let his father hear you say that!

 

[Afridi_Fan]

Interesting technique by Anderson, moving almost outside off stump and then defending. A leg stump yorker won't be a bad ploy against him. :younis

 

[Keith]

Don't you let his father hear you say that!

I will keep quiet now .......

 

[Afridi_Fan]

180 All Out.

 

[James]

180 AO. nice cameo from Swann but there are no runs to play with here. The seamers have to play out of their skins to keep us in it going into the 2nd innings, which is not impossible if you look at the last tour, when we struggled to 130 in Durban, conceded a first innings lead of 200 but then wiped it out in the 2nd innings and nearly won the game right at the end.

Simply put we have 2 sessions to stay in the game.

 

[Amjid Javed]

England have made a pig ear of their 1st inns here. There bowlers will have to bail them out here big time.

 

[James]

I will never give up hope!!

 

[saffer]

there is no way you can give that out after the batting side has referred it. sickening, absolute garbage.

Was out. There need so be serious doubt to overturn the umpires original decisions. Doubt doesn't go to the batsman , it goes to the umpire.

 

[saffer]

I won't say anything. It's going to be really tough out there as the Saffer ball was swinging and seaming even after 45 overs. England can get back into this with a few wickets tonight. Shine sun ! Shine !

 

[Sledger]

I think if England had got to 200 then they would have had a chance but now I think the only way they can win from here is if Smith sends all his fielders to the boundary.

 

[James]

rain. hmph. feels more like a stay of execution than a genuine opportunity to come back later on a juicy pitch.

 

[James]

Was out. There need so be serious doubt to overturn the umpires original decisions. Doubt doesn't go to the batsman , it goes to the umpire.

Smith was given out at Cape Town, referred it and won the referral very marginally, but rightly. He went on to a massive innings. Why shouldn't Cook stay in with a marginal decision? Isn't the elite panel supposed to be the sharpest eight pairs of eyes in the world - how can they not see what everyone else in the world can see, AND with the benefit of a slow-motion replay?

If I had been SA I would have gone for it and happy with the wicket, of course - the issue is the incompetence of Daryl Harper. Even the normally measured and inoffensive Michael Vaughan blasted Harper after the decision.

 

[saffer]

Smith was given out at Cape Town, referred it and won the referral very marginally, but rightly. He went on to a massive innings. Why shouldn't Cook stay in with a marginal decision? Isn't the elite panel supposed to be the sharpest eight pairs of eyes in the world - how can they not see what everyone else in the world can see, AND with the benefit of a slow-motion replay?

If I had been SA I would have gone for it and happy with the wicket, of course - the issue is the incompetence of Daryl Harper. Even the normally measured and inoffensive Michael Vaughan blasted Harper after the decision.

In durban the two LBW given out were upheld even though on both occasions the it was only marginal that it they hit in line or were going over the stumps. Had the umpire decide not out they would not have been uphgeld. But because he decided it was out it was originally and it was marginal they were upheld.

Same with Morkel. It was not definitely a no ball. In fact it probably wasn't. Therefore it was marginal. Original decision is therefore upheld. The rules are simple.

 

[saffer]

rain. hmph. feels more like a stay of execution than a genuine opportunity to come back later on a juicy pitch.

Enough lucky escapes for England this series methinks.

 

[Sledger]

Play to resume in 15 mins.

 

[Muhammad]

Good start after the break from England bowlers particularly Sidebottom.

No breakthrough yet though!