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The Kumar Sangakkara Mega thread

You said about Waqar being on last leg,but Sachin also didnt face Wasim and Waqar much in their primetime.

Where did I talk about Sachin in that post . Not sure , why you are talking about it. You listed bunch of bowlers, who have big names, but Sanga has hardly played many games against them. I was only pointing that out.

Since you are insisting about bowlers's quality faced by two then SRT's peak was 90s and Sanga's 2000s. Take a look at how batsmen all over the world did in that period. Something should jump out loudly here.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...0;spanval2=span;template=results;type=batting

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...0;spanval2=span;template=results;type=batting

Anyway, Not sure why some of you are bringing SRT in equation even when my post had nothing to do with SRT.
 
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37th Hundred ,, 10th against Pakistan


Last few scores

Hundred (today), 0, 72, 24, 76, 79, 55, 147, 61, 319, 105, 75, 52
 
37th Hundred ,, 10th against Pakistan


Last few scores

Hundred (today), 0, 72, 24, 76, 79, 55, 147, 61, 319, 105, 75, 52

If he bats for another 2 years, can he get 50 centuries?
 
Sick of seeing sanga giving our bowlers a beating :facepalm:
 
In all seriousness I believe that Sanga is a very good batsman and undoubtedly the best left handed batsman of our generation but personally for me he is not the greatest ever. I know this might sound ridiculous to some of you because if you really look at it, there are not many good lefties going around in test today hence we overlook lefties of the past era or even before that.

For me, he comes in the top 3 but misses out as the greatest or second greatest. I personally believe that the greatest left handed batsman ever is Graeme Pollock and those who were lucky enough to see him bat will absolutely testify this claim. I personally never witnessed him on any form of broadcast but I've met with people, serious old cricket fanatics who have seen him and trust me they are still in love with him even after witnessing all the Sanga heroics and run fest happening currently, and the best part is their all Pakistani folks. You can say that once an opinion is made it's very difficult to change but these people are extremely sane and very objective in their opinion in their daily lives so I stand firm to believe that their judgement can be taken as a good benchmark. You all might disagree with all this as it is only imaginative on your part to hear me and make out a decision based on someone's story about another imaginative companions but this is what I believe is in my opinion. I would really appreciate if anyone could testify for this as I have never seen him play but if there is someone out there in PP who has seen him play, I would like to have their opinion as well.

Another great left handed batsman who I was lucky enough to see is BC Lara and man could this guy bat. 90s was an era where almost all top cricketing nations had brutal fast bowlers, baring a few teams and the way he dominated attacks was a treat to watch. BC Lara was a clutch player for me and his best would come out when the going got tough, I think he sort off enjoyed the competitive nature of the game and the extra pressure while taking the phainta to the bowlers, no matter who they were. BC Lara was in another league for me, someone who i seriously rate very highly even up till today. Maybe I would have had different views of Graeme Pollock had I seen him but these two clearly are the 1 and 2 for me.

Before moving on I would like to say that these are subjective personal opinions and have nothing to do with stats or how many runs/ matches they have scored or played respectively. I also would like to add that because cricket is a causation based game it is very difficult (again in my opinion) to rate a player based solely on stats. You can certainly have killer stats but there are other factors also that determine how good you are as a cricketer. Mental aspect is part of it but being a batsman you should be able to

1. Time it from ball 1
2. Hold your own when the going gets tough (In foreign conditions - I mean it in a different way other than stats (I am referring to play and miss/ fishing outside off etc; something to do with technique)
3. Mental Strength (Against Sledging etc)
4. Have an all round game (dominant on all sides of the pitch + tempo of innings)
5. Decent Stats

Having all five is clearly asking to much from a human cricketer but for me Pollock and Lara had at least 4 of the above 5. Sanga has the last three attribute clearly but lacks 1 and 2 in opinion, hence he makes no 3. in my all time greatest left hand batsman list.

Going a little off topic now, I believe that batsman who hold their own in a hostile fast bowling spell + time it perfectly from ball one are more deserving of applause than cricketers with boasted stats and lacking the former attributes. Stats are a decent metric but not the end of the world when it comes to gauging better players. They only give part of the story and can be sometimes extremely misleading. For instance lets take an example, Mark Ramprakash and Nick Knight (Both I think have represented England) have one of the most outstanding stats I've ever seen in county cricket, not so knight but Ramprakash was a domestic beast. According to the numbers Mark Ramprakash should have been the next Bradman but sadly enough he only represented England in a handful of games and never got his international career going. Why do you think that happened, because Ramprakash had only #5 attribute (from the above list) in his armory and as soon as he was thrown into international cricket, where the other four attributes are needed he couldn't translate that domestic performance into real test/ODI figures. On the contrary, Alec Stewart who has decent stats in English county was a much better clutch player for me than Ramprakash even though he himself extremely lacked #1 and #4.

Based on the above analogy, for me at least Sanga is no 3 in the all time left handed batsman list.

Apart from Graeme and Lara I personally think that the Waugh Brothers, Miandad, Sunil Gavaskar, Justin Langer, VVS Laxman and Ross Taylor are some of the players that have 4 of the 5 attributes I mentioned earlier and hence I rate these above stat gods who I personally think are good bats but I would never want them to be my clutch players.

Again, this all is something totally subject - If I offended someone then I truly apologize in advance

Cheers
 
In all seriousness I believe that Sanga is a very good batsman and undoubtedly the best left handed batsman of our generation but personally for me he is not the greatest ever. I know this might sound ridiculous to some of you because if you really look at it, there are not many good lefties going around in test today hence we overlook lefties of the past era or even before that.

For me, he comes in the top 3 but misses out as the greatest or second greatest. I personally believe that the greatest left handed batsman ever is Graeme Pollock and those who were lucky enough to see him bat will absolutely testify this claim. I personally never witnessed him on any form of broadcast but I've met with people, serious old cricket fanatics who have seen him and trust me they are still in love with him even after witnessing all the Sanga heroics and run fest happening currently, and the best part is their all Pakistani folks. You can say that once an opinion is made it's very difficult to change but these people are extremely sane and very objective in their opinion in their daily lives so I stand firm to believe that their judgement can be taken as a good benchmark. You all might disagree with all this as it is only imaginative on your part to hear me and make out a decision based on someone's story about another imaginative companions but this is what I believe is in my opinion. I would really appreciate if anyone could testify for this as I have never seen him play but if there is someone out there in PP who has seen him play, I would like to have their opinion as well.

Another great left handed batsman who I was lucky enough to see is BC Lara and man could this guy bat. 90s was an era where almost all top cricketing nations had brutal fast bowlers, baring a few teams and the way he dominated attacks was a treat to watch. BC Lara was a clutch player for me and his best would come out when the going got tough, I think he sort off enjoyed the competitive nature of the game and the extra pressure while taking the phainta to the bowlers, no matter who they were. BC Lara was in another league for me, someone who i seriously rate very highly even up till today. Maybe I would have had different views of Graeme Pollock had I seen him but these two clearly are the 1 and 2 for me.

Before moving on I would like to say that these are subjective personal opinions and have nothing to do with stats or how many runs/ matches they have scored or played respectively. I also would like to add that because cricket is a causation based game it is very difficult (again in my opinion) to rate a player based solely on stats. You can certainly have killer stats but there are other factors also that determine how good you are as a cricketer. Mental aspect is part of it but being a batsman you should be able to

1. Time it from ball 1
2. Hold your own when the going gets tough (In foreign conditions - I mean it in a different way other than stats (I am referring to play and miss/ fishing outside off etc; something to do with technique)
3. Mental Strength (Against Sledging etc)
4. Have an all round game (dominant on all sides of the pitch + tempo of innings)
5. Decent Stats

Having all five is clearly asking to much from a human cricketer but for me Pollock and Lara had at least 4 of the above 5. Sanga has the last three attribute clearly but lacks 1 and 2 in opinion, hence he makes no 3. in my all time greatest left hand batsman list.

Going a little off topic now, I believe that batsman who hold their own in a hostile fast bowling spell + time it perfectly from ball one are more deserving of applause than cricketers with boasted stats and lacking the former attributes. Stats are a decent metric but not the end of the world when it comes to gauging better players. They only give part of the story and can be sometimes extremely misleading. For instance lets take an example, Mark Ramprakash and Nick Knight (Both I think have represented England) have one of the most outstanding stats I've ever seen in county cricket, not so knight but Ramprakash was a domestic beast. According to the numbers Mark Ramprakash should have been the next Bradman but sadly enough he only represented England in a handful of games and never got his international career going. Why do you think that happened, because Ramprakash had only #5 attribute (from the above list) in his armory and as soon as he was thrown into international cricket, where the other four attributes are needed he couldn't translate that domestic performance into real test/ODI figures. On the contrary, Alec Stewart who has decent stats in English county was a much better clutch player for me than Ramprakash even though he himself extremely lacked #1 and #4.

Based on the above analogy, for me at least Sanga is no 3 in the all time left handed batsman list.

Apart from Graeme and Lara I personally think that the Waugh Brothers, Miandad, Sunil Gavaskar, Justin Langer, VVS Laxman and Ross Taylor are some of the players that have 4 of the 5 attributes I mentioned earlier and hence I rate these above stat gods who I personally think are good bats but I would never want them to be my clutch players.

Again, this all is something totally subject - If I offended someone then I truly apologize in advance

Cheers

stat gods are atleast morally better than 'ball tampering gods' i suppose
 
In all seriousness I believe that Sanga is a very good batsman and undoubtedly the best left handed batsman of our generation but personally for me he is not the greatest ever. I know this might sound ridiculous to some of you because if you really look at it, there are not many good lefties going around in test today hence we overlook lefties of the past era or even before that.

For me, he comes in the top 3 but misses out as the greatest or second greatest. I personally believe that the greatest left handed batsman ever is Graeme Pollock and those who were lucky enough to see him bat will absolutely testify this claim. I personally never witnessed him on any form of broadcast but I've met with people, serious old cricket fanatics who have seen him and trust me they are still in love with him even after witnessing all the Sanga heroics and run fest happening currently, and the best part is their all Pakistani folks. You can say that once an opinion is made it's very difficult to change but these people are extremely sane and very objective in their opinion in their daily lives so I stand firm to believe that their judgement can be taken as a good benchmark. You all might disagree with all this as it is only imaginative on your part to hear me and make out a decision based on someone's story about another imaginative companions but this is what I believe is in my opinion. I would really appreciate if anyone could testify for this as I have never seen him play but if there is someone out there in PP who has seen him play, I would like to have their opinion as well.

Another great left handed batsman who I was lucky enough to see is BC Lara and man could this guy bat. 90s was an era where almost all top cricketing nations had brutal fast bowlers, baring a few teams and the way he dominated attacks was a treat to watch. BC Lara was a clutch player for me and his best would come out when the going got tough, I think he sort off enjoyed the competitive nature of the game and the extra pressure while taking the phainta to the bowlers, no matter who they were. BC Lara was in another league for me, someone who i seriously rate very highly even up till today. Maybe I would have had different views of Graeme Pollock had I seen him but these two clearly are the 1 and 2 for me.

Before moving on I would like to say that these are subjective personal opinions and have nothing to do with stats or how many runs/ matches they have scored or played respectively. I also would like to add that because cricket is a causation based game it is very difficult (again in my opinion) to rate a player based solely on stats. You can certainly have killer stats but there are other factors also that determine how good you are as a cricketer. Mental aspect is part of it but being a batsman you should be able to

1. Time it from ball 1
2. Hold your own when the going gets tough (In foreign conditions - I mean it in a different way other than stats (I am referring to play and miss/ fishing outside off etc; something to do with technique)
3. Mental Strength (Against Sledging etc)
4. Have an all round game (dominant on all sides of the pitch + tempo of innings)
5. Decent Stats

Having all five is clearly asking to much from a human cricketer but for me Pollock and Lara had at least 4 of the above 5. Sanga has the last three attribute clearly but lacks 1 and 2 in opinion, hence he makes no 3. in my all time greatest left hand batsman list.

Going a little off topic now, I believe that batsman who hold their own in a hostile fast bowling spell + time it perfectly from ball one are more deserving of applause than cricketers with boasted stats and lacking the former attributes. Stats are a decent metric but not the end of the world when it comes to gauging better players. They only give part of the story and can be sometimes extremely misleading. For instance lets take an example, Mark Ramprakash and Nick Knight (Both I think have represented England) have one of the most outstanding stats I've ever seen in county cricket, not so knight but Ramprakash was a domestic beast. According to the numbers Mark Ramprakash should have been the next Bradman but sadly enough he only represented England in a handful of games and never got his international career going. Why do you think that happened, because Ramprakash had only #5 attribute (from the above list) in his armory and as soon as he was thrown into international cricket, where the other four attributes are needed he couldn't translate that domestic performance into real test/ODI figures. On the contrary, Alec Stewart who has decent stats in English county was a much better clutch player for me than Ramprakash even though he himself extremely lacked #1 and #4.

Based on the above analogy, for me at least Sanga is no 3 in the all time left handed batsman list.

Apart from Graeme and Lara I personally think that the Waugh Brothers, Miandad, Sunil Gavaskar, Justin Langer, VVS Laxman and Ross Taylor are some of the players that have 4 of the 5 attributes I mentioned earlier and hence I rate these above stat gods who I personally think are good bats but I would never want them to be my clutch players.

Again, this all is something totally subject - If I offended someone then I truly apologize in advance

Cheers
POTW [MENTION=93712]MenInG[/MENTION]
 
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At his peak, he is better than Sachin.
Stats don't mean anything. I think he is definitely better than Sachin
 
At his peak, he is better than Sachin.
Stats don't mean anything. I think he is definitely better than Sachin
Now don't criticise fans for bringing Sachin into discussions. Clownish behaviour begins from within it seems. :misbah
 
Exclude Bangladesh, Zimababwe and flattest series of all time, aka Sri Lanka Vs Pakistan, and Sanga becomes a batsman who averages 45. (Home + Away)

Greatest leftie of all time ? LOL


This thread is an insult to Lara.
 
Lara isn't the greatest leftie though. The title belongs to Sir Gary Sobers.
 
Exclude Bangladesh, Zimababwe and flattest series of all time, aka Sri Lanka Vs Pakistan, and Sanga becomes a batsman who averages 45. (Home + Away)

Greatest leftie of all time ? LOL


This thread is an insult to Lara.
I am not into this useless argument but you should remove runs against SA. You might ask me why but why not since we selectively remove his best opposition.
 
I am not into this useless argument but you should remove runs against SA. You might ask me why but why not since we selectively remove his best opposition.

Insecurity mate. Clowns will be clowns.
 
I am not into this useless argument but you should remove runs against SA. You might ask me why but why not since we selectively remove his best opposition.

The argument is minnow bashing and flat-track bullying. And its not your regular FTBness and minnow-bashing. Look at it closer -

Runs scored against Zimbabwe and Bangladesh - 22% of his career runs have been scored against these two sides. For Lara, that percentage is ONLY 3%.

Apart from minnow bashing, the only high point of Sanga's career has been his record against Pakistan. We all know the kind of pitches that series is played on. 7 out of 10 Hundreds in drawn matches !



If this thread wants to know the Greatest Leftie of all time, then I am sorry to say but I will put forward the quality of those runs too. Against top sides, Sanga is just another batsman. Lara was a nightmare for most of the quality teams.
 
Lara isn't the greatest leftie though. The title belongs to Sir Gary Sobers.

Agree. However he did score heavily against minnows India for close to one and a half decades. Sanga not even in the top 3 lefties. Sobers, Lara and G Pollock would be the top 3 I would say.
 
Agree. However he did score heavily against minnows India for close to one and a half decades. Sanga not even in the top 3 lefties. Sobers, Lara and G Pollock would be the top 3 I would say.

Graeme Pollock is pretty underrated
 
Runs scored against Zimbabwe and Bangladesh - 22% of his career runs have been scored against these two sides. For Lara, that percentage is ONLY 3%.

But you can't really use this to make argument unless we are judging players based on purely average. I meant Lara has played only 3% of his tests against minnows so it's not surprising that he will have so few runs against minnows. Sanga played 15% of his tests against minnows so it's pretty much expected that he will score 15 or higher % of his runs against minnows.

Now if we are only looking at career aggregate average to decide who is better then you have a point otherwise 3% or 22% runs are not really telling us anything.

Most fans know who is better between Lara and Sanga but just making a point here.
 
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But you can't really use this to make argument unless we are judging players based on purely average. I meant Lara has played only 3% of his tests against minnows so it's not surprising that he will have so few runs against minnows. Sanga played 15% of his tests against minnows so it's pretty much expected that he will score 15 or higher % of his runs against minnows.

Now if we are only looking at career average to decide who is better then you have a point otherwise 3% or 22% runs are not really telling us anything.

The reason this thread exists in the first place is because we are judging players based on purely averages.

If not average, is there some other criteria that justifies this thread ?
 
The reason this thread exists in the first place is because we are judging players based on purely averages.

Fair enough. I didn't look at OP before commenting. I was just making a general comment.
 
I would say he is possibly the best left-handed batsman ever.This guy averages nearly 59 in test cricket which is ridiculous.
 
The insecure Indians, South Africans, Brits and Australians can come up with as many stats as they want regarding his performance against top class attacks but the fact is that he's a phenomenal batsman and a certified ATG.

Masterclass.
 
The insecure Indians, South Africans, Brits and Australians can come up with as many stats as they want regarding his performance against top class attacks but the fact is that he's a phenomenal batsman and a certified ATG.

Masterclass.

drop the act Mamoon bhai....you are an Indian...we all know it :P
 
Lol there is more to the game than averages (not that his average is evenly distributed anyway).

He is not even the best left hand bat of his generation, nevermind "ever".
 
Yes yes I'm Indian. You've put Sherlock to shame with your detective skills.
 
Lol there is more to the game than averages (not that his average is evenly distributed anyway).

He is not even the best left hand bat of his generation, nevermind "ever".

Only when South African players are not involved and that's the only way you can make Kallis look like a legend. :boycott
 
Not at all, but he's still an ATG but a lower tier one unlike Lara who is top tier and in the league of Tendulkar and Ponting.
 
Not at all, but he's still an ATG but a lower tier one unlike Lara who is top tier and in the league of Tendulkar and Ponting.

then we have no disagreement....my post was on topic whether he is the greatest left hander ever ....a guy averaging 47 against 6 teams can't be the greatest left hander
 
He's definitely not the greatest left handed batsman. That's a ridiculous statement.
 
Is Kumar Sangakkara the greatest left handed batsman in Test Cricket ever?

He minnow bashes- pakistan and bangladesh :msd
 
take out pakistan and minnows and the average drops to 47 ....don't insult lara pls


Why should we disregard his performance against Pakistan,it's not a minnow and according to many here on PP,Pakistan has the best bowling attack?

As for Lara,I have not seen him play,I would say Sanga is the best amongst the left handers whom I've seen.
 
Why should we disregard his performance against Pakistan,it's not a minnow and according to many here on PP,Pakistan has the best bowling attack?

As for Lara,I have not seen him play,I would say Sanga is the best amongst the left handers whom I've seen.

If a player is greatest ever than he needs to have a balanced record....performance against pakistan can make him great but not greatest ever..get the point.....as you didn't watch lara so i can understand your naivety
 
Sangakkara's penchant for big scores is really amazing. no doubt his stature as a batsman has increased a lot over the last 5 years or so. he is definitely one of the greatest of the last 35 years or so. but to call him 'as the greatest left hander ' ?.... i am not sure.

primarily Lara is there. Sanga definitely is a beast against Zim,Ban & Pak. Same is the case in ASIA, barring India as of now. But for a sub continental batsman performance in AUS,SAF,ENG & NZL counts much more.
Here the records of Lara, Sachin & Sanga are like these

inns >150 >200
Sachin 98 9 1
Lara 91 6 3
Sanga 55 2 0

the above data typically describes these 3 players. In Sachin's case i have neglected his record in last 23 tests because as it is well known he was past his prime after 2011 world cup.More over data till 2011 world cup is enough to surpass easily the run aggregate and total matches of other 2.
Sanga lags far behind in inns/>150 ratio.Sachin has the most. Lara lies in between. but he has 3 200s.also Sachin and Lara played thru the 90s against much more quality bowling in general.Just stated all the above to show Sanga against Lara & Sachin.

So Lara is better than Sanga for me. also Allan Border who has a great test record in all countries from the difficult 80s is a better batsman to Sanga.i don't know much about Sobers or Graeme Pollock.so any way Lara and Border better than Sanga.Sanga definitely is any where in the range 'modern great' to 'all time great' for sure.
 
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If a player is greatest ever than he needs to have a balanced record....performance against pakistan can make him great but not greatest ever..get the point.....as you didn't watch lara so i can understand your naivety

Sanga has good averages against other oppositions as well not only Pakistan.I said he is the best left-handed batman I have watched.No need to get too worked up.
 
Sangakkara's penchant for big scores is really amazing. no doubt his stature as a batsman has increased a lot over the last 5 years or so. he is definitely one of the greatest of the last 35 years or so. but to call him 'as the greatest left hander ' ?.... i am not sure.

primarily Lara is there. Sanga definitely is a beast against Zim,Ban & Pak. Same is the case in ASIA, barring India as of now. But for a sub continental batsman performance in AUS,SAF,ENG & NZL counts much more.
Here the records of Lara, Sachin & Sanga are like these

inns >150 >200
Sachin 98 9 1
Lara 91 6 3
Sanga 55 2 0

the above data typically describes these 3 players. In Sachin's case i have neglected his record in last 23 tests because as it is well known he was past his prime after 2011 world cup.More over data till 2011 world cup is enough to surpass easily the run aggregate and total matches of other 2.
Sanga lags far behind in inns/>150 ratio.Sachin has the most. Lara lies in between. but he has 3 200s.
Just stated all the above to show Sanga against Lara & Sachin.

So Lara is batter than Sanga for me. also Allan Border who has a great test record in all countries from the difficult 80s is a better batsman to Sanga.i don't know much about Sobers or Graeme Pollock.so any way Lara and Border better than Sanga.Sanga definitely is any where in the range 'modern great' to 'all time great' for sure.
 
Lara, Sachin and Ponting (partially) played in the golden era of bowlers, where even bowlers like andy caddick averaged below 30. Sanga is playing in the era of batsmen, where a great bowler like jimmy anderson averages over 30. No comparison. Sanga and Cook will be the second best left handers of the last 10 years, the best left hander being Graeme biff Smith.
 
Lara, Sachin and Ponting (partially) played in the golden era of bowlers, where even bowlers like andy caddick averaged below 30. Sanga is playing in the era of batsmen, where a great bowler like jimmy anderson averages over 30. No comparison. Sanga and Cook will be the second best left handers of the last 10 years, the best left hander being Graeme biff Smith.

Smith averages 32 vs Aus, 37 vs India, 35 vs SL, 42 vs NZ. You might be surprised but he has NO hundreds against India and Sri Lanka both home and away and you call him best of the decade? He's just an English bully?
 
Why should we disregard his performance against Pakistan,it's not a minnow and according to many here on PP,Pakistan has the best bowling attack?

As for Lara,I have not seen him play,I would say Sanga is the best amongst the left handers whom I've seen.

Pakistan had a better attack than WI, Ind, NZ and Eng at time of Sanga's carrier.
 
Smith averages 32 vs Aus, 37 vs India, 35 vs SL, 42 vs NZ. You might be surprised but he has NO hundreds against India and Sri Lanka both home and away and you call him best of the decade? He's just an English bully?

Yes, he is the best left hander of the decade. Why, because not all runs are equal. I value runs scored in pressure situations much more than normal runs. And Biff is the best when it comes to pressure.
 
Yes, he is the best left hander of the decade. Why, because not all runs are equal. I value runs scored in pressure situations much more than normal runs. And Biff is the best when it comes to pressure.

Wasn't he under any pressure when he played 22 test matches combined vs India and SL to not score at least a hundred? Which are supposedly hard for a player from outside SC? If you estimate a SC player's value by filtering his outside SC records then its the other way around for Smith and the stats shows he failed miserably in two of the toughest places to tour for a South African.
 
Wasn't he under any pressure when he played 22 test matches combined vs India and SL to not score at least a hundred? Which are supposedly hard for a player from outside SC? If you estimate a SC player's value by filtering his outside SC records then its the other way around for Smith and the stats shows he failed miserably in two of the toughest places to tour for a South African.

He played only 2 test matches in Sri Lanka, scoring two fifties and averaging 45.

In India, he played 7 test matches, averaging 36.

Where is the combined 22 matches? Is that called failing miserably?
 
He played only 2 test matches in Sri Lanka, scoring two fifties and averaging 45.

In India, he played 7 test matches, averaging 36.

Where is the combined 22 matches? Is that called failing miserably?

This is what I have posted and it clearly mention both and away which is even more embarrassing.

Smith averages 32 vs Aus, 37 vs India, 35 vs SL, 42 vs NZ. You might be surprised but he has NO hundreds against India and Sri Lanka both home and away and you call him best of the decade? He's just an English bully?
 
This is what I have posted and it clearly mention both and away which is even more embarrassing.

Smith averages 32 vs Aus, 37 vs India, 35 vs SL, 42 vs NZ. You might be surprised but he has NO hundreds against India and Sri Lanka both home and away and you call him best of the decade? He's just an English bully?

No hundreds means nothing. I can mention at least 5 innings played by him under great pressure. Can you do the same for Sanga?
 
No hundreds means nothing. I can mention at least 5 innings played by him under great pressure. Can you do the same for Sanga?

I can definitely bring up some pressure innings from Sangakkara, almost every cricketer who served for their respective countries for longer periods are bound to have a few great knocks. But can you make Smith come out of retirement and score a hundred against either India or SL? I don't care about the venue though.

Smith was sloppy in SC and the stats proved my argument.
 
I can definitely bring up some pressure innings from Sangakkara, almost every cricketer who served for their respective countries for longer periods are bound to have a few great knocks. But can you make Smith come out of retirement and score a hundred against either India or SL? I don't care about the venue though.

Smith was sloppy in SC and the stats proved my argument.

Please go ahead and show me those pressure innings Sanga played, and I will show better innings by Biff.

No, your stats only show that he averaged 36 in India, and 45 in SL. They don't prove that he was sloppy in SC.
 
Sangakkara didn't open the innings so this comparison with Smith is pointless. Opening and batting in the middle order are two completely different things. Opening is harder.

I will say that Smith is the best opener I've seen though, probably one of the best ever. The fact that we never lost a test when he scored a hundred is astonishing, it points to the effect he had on the rest of the team.
 
Please go ahead and show me those pressure innings Sanga played, and I will show better innings by Biff.

No, your stats only show that he averaged 36 in India, and 45 in SL. They don't prove that he was sloppy in SC.

Sanga has basically carried SL's batting for more than a decade in all forms of the game. That too batting at no 3. So not sure what you are going on about.
 
Sanga has transformed his stats from being good to legendary in last 5 years. Lets have a look at it a little deeper. Last 5 years, his stats in some countries -

In Bangladesh - 499 runs in 3 innings. :don
In India + Australia + South Africa - 573 runs in 15 innings ! :kakmal

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/50710.html?class=1;spanmax1=11+Aug+2014;spanmin1=11+Aug+2009;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

Quite clearly, the extent of minnow bashing is so evident !

____________________________________________

When he is done with minnow bashing, he needs more help. So what would he do ? Sanga decides to bash bowlers in Sri Lanka and UAE where half the matches he plays (not involving minnows) end as Draws.

Stop comparing him to Lara guys. :facepalm: Even Younis Khan has outperformed Sanga against top sides in their own backyard !
 
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Sanga has transformed his stats from being good to legendary in last 5 years. Lets have a look at it a little deeper. Last 5 years, his stats in some countries -

In Bangladesh - 499 runs in 3 innings. :don
In India + Australia + South Africa - 573 runs in 15 innings ! :kakmal

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/50710.html?class=1;spanmax1=11+Aug+2014;spanmin1=11+Aug+2009;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

Quite clearly, the extent of minnow bashing is so evident !

____________________________________________

When he is done with minnow bashing, he needs more help. So what would he do ? Sanga decides to bash bowlers in Sri Lanka and UAE where half the matches he plays (not involving minnows) end as Draws.

Stop comparing him to Lara guys. :facepalm: Even Younis Khan has outperformed Sanga against top sides in their own backyard !

This.
 
Sangakkara didn't open the innings so this comparison with Smith is pointless. Opening and batting in the middle order are two completely different things. Opening is harder.

I will say that Smith is the best opener I've seen though, probably one of the best ever. The fact that we never lost a test when he scored a hundred is astonishing, it points to the effect he had on the rest of the team.

You are genius! Go ask any professionals they will tell you No.3 is as good as opening the innings.

As a South African player his performance in SC should be counted more valuable than bullying English and Ausies. And its pretty clear he's failed in SC.
 
You are genius! Go ask any professionals they will tell you No.3 is as good as opening the innings.

As a South African player his performance in SC should be counted more valuable than bullying English and Ausies. And its pretty clear he's failed in SC.
Rubbish. He delivered SERIES-defining knocks when it mattered. What happened to the argument that SC pitches are batsman-friendly pancakes and should therefore be discarded from stats?
 
No.

Lara, Sobers, Pollock are all better and Gilchrist and Smith being arguably better.

I also see Alistair Cook ending up with a better career too.
 
Allan Border seems to be very unfamiliar in this forum.he is a strong candidate to be the top 3 left handers of all time.he was a great pressure player.he often performed better in tough situations.not always attractive, but a gritty player who scored tough runs against top quality bowling attacks.
 
No.

Lara, Sobers, Pollock are all better and Gilchrist and Smith being arguably better.

I also see Alistair Cook ending up with a better career too.

Cook doesn't belong there. He can't play good pace attack.
 
Is Kumar Sangakkara the greatest left handed batsman in Test Cricket ever?

Rubbish. He delivered SERIES-defining knocks when it mattered. What happened to the argument that SC pitches are batsman-friendly pancakes and should therefore be discarded from stats?

Alien conditions genius!!! Have you ever heard of that?

There isn't too much difference in playing in SA or Eng or NZ or Aus but a huge gap in playing in Asian conditions for a non SC player. Same as questioning Sachin's or Dravid's or Sangakkara's or Younis' or Laxman in alien conditions?

Smith is known for guts, has great temperament and some marvelous innings but it cannot hide the fact that his records in SC against two of the better test playing nations are awful.

Someone who couldn't score a hundred against two top test playing nations cannot be considered as one of the top 10 forget about top 3. If you take into account he couldn't do it both home and away in 22 matches combined is even more embarrassing.
 
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Alien conditions genius!!! Have you ever heard of that?

There isn't too much difference in playing in SA or Eng or NZ or Aus but a huge gap in playing in Asian conditions for a non SC player. Same as questioning Sachin's or Dravid's or Sangakkara's or Younis' or Laxman in alien conditions?

Smith is known for guts, has great temperament and some marvelous innings but it cannot hide the fact that his records in SC against two of the better test playing nations are awful.

Someone who couldn't score a hundred against two top test playing nations cannot be considered as one of the top 10 forget about top 3. If you take into account he couldn't do it both home and away in 22 matches combined is even more embarrassing.


what will you say about sanga's performance?
 
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what will you say about sanga's performance?

Sanga's performance looks a bit rusty but you never got the point we were after. I don't think Sangakkara is greater than Lara/Sachin/Ponting but he's definitely in the league of Dravid/Kallis nor did anyone in this forum. He has a tremendous record as just a pure batsman and the sample size is not just a handful of matches.

He's played 73 matches a pure batsman continuously and amazed an average of 71.12

I know you want to take out minnows, so I took out Zim and Bang and it reads 62.77

You might want to take out India and Pakistan too, so it came down to 62.09 without India and 55.92 without India and Pakistan.

You might argue that he's just bullying everyone in home roads so i stripped of home matches and guess what he averages 56.50


TBH

I have no idea why people really want to include WI and NZ both are close to minnows in the last decade or so. A winning percentage of 0.36 and 0.68 respectively when Pak had 0.95, Ind 1.5, SL 1.22, Aus 2.97, SA 1.89

I can accept NZ partially but WI should not be considered when talking about statistics after 2000s I guess.

So excluding WI, he averages 58.86 and if exclude NZ it comes down to 53.29 which is still one of the best against Aus, SA, England in their own backyard playing at No.3
 
Sanga's performance looks a bit rusty but you never got the point we were after. I don't think Sangakkara is greater than Lara/Sachin/Ponting but he's definitely in the league of Dravid/Kallis nor did anyone in this forum. He has a tremendous record as just a pure batsman and the sample size is not just a handful of matches.

He's played 73 matches a pure batsman continuously and amazed an average of 71.12

I know you want to take out minnows, so I took out Zim and Bang and it reads 62.77

You might want to take out India and Pakistan too, so it came down to 62.09 without India and 55.92 without India and Pakistan.

You might argue that he's just bullying everyone in home roads so i stripped of home matches and guess what he averages 56.50


TBH

I have no idea why people really want to include WI and NZ both are close to minnows in the last decade or so. A winning percentage of 0.36 and 0.68 respectively when Pak had 0.95, Ind 1.5, SL 1.22, Aus 2.97, SA 1.89

I can accept NZ partially but WI should not be considered when talking about statistics after 2000s I guess.

So excluding WI, he averages 58.86 and if exclude NZ it comes down to 53.29 which is still one of the best against Aus, SA, England in their own backyard playing at No.3

The thread is about greatest left hander...so of course people will question his record....you say he is below tendulkar/ponting/lara then why are you posting in this thread...my stats are not to prove he is not great...it is to show he is not the greatest , not even close
 
I've just ticked "Not as wicketkeeper" and look what I found!!!


Sangakkara N:K.jpg
 
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I've just ticked "Not as wicketkeeper" and look what I found!!!

View attachment 47683

lol not as a wicket keeper is a stupid argument....do you know if i put stats of sachin not as a teenager or old man he averages 60+
in 160 test...ponting averages 78 in 50+ tests....you see every one's peak will look ridiculous...he played as batsman when he was mature enough as a batsman that is why will look at a player's full career
 
The thread is about greatest left hander...so of course people will question his record....you say he is below tendulkar/ponting/lara then why are you posting in this thread...my stats are not to prove he is not great...it is to show he is not the greatest , not even close

My bad

I thought its that Sangakkara vs Lara/Sachin/Ponting thread. I really got confused.
 
My bad

I thought its that Sangakkara vs Lara/Sachin/Ponting thread. I really got confused.

lara is leftie , sanga is leftie....so it is at the very least sanga vs lara ...can be sanga vs lara/sobers/hayden or other great lefties...the point about tendulkar and ponting was to show his stats as pure batsman are his peak stats they don't include initial stages of his international career when the batsman is new...tendulkar averaged 35 for first 3 years i think ...so judge him by his complete career
 
lol not as a wicket keeper is a stupid argument....do you know if i put stats of sachin not as a teenager or old man he averages 60+
in 160 test...ponting averages 78 in 50+ tests....you see every one's peak will look ridiculous...he played as batsman when he was mature enough as a batsman that is why will look at a player's full career

Actually your point may look good but Sangakkara played 45 matches as a wicketkeeper and as a no.3 batsman.

Keeping affected his batting literally, just imagine Australia scoring a mammoth 600 runs and takes a wicket in 10 minutes. He has to come out and bat even after standing behind stumps for 100+ overs.


I think we have dragged this argument too far and its time to move to some other thread. Lets have some fun somewhere else, its kinda boring now.
 
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