The Misbah-ul-Haq Captaincy Analysis Thread

[Ironcat]

Bullet Drive just schooled himself:

The biggest test is of course the South Africa series. That's the true test. ...Now we are going away finally against a top team. We haven't done this under captain fantastic. South Africa tour will be an amazing one.

Vs

South Africa aren't much at home. They lost to a Sri Lankan team recently at home which we hammered. They also lost to India at home. Pakistan should win one game at least as we have a better test side than India & Sri Lanka.

 

[speed]

Comes from a guy who said "I've never seen Miandad bat."

All that experience channeled into two extraordinary lines of English.

what you trying to say?

 

[Ironcat]

You yourself say that you have to look at the situation, surely you can see that most of Ajmal & Rehman's wickets were because they had the English batsmen bamboolzed completely. What did Misbah have to do with that?

All he had to do was set an attacking field (because, let's be real here, when you're taking 2-3 wickets together, what else would you do?) and watch Ajmal and Rehman do their magic.

So what prevented Ajmal et al from bamboozling the batsmen on their own without Misbah?

Ajmal with Misbah the captain: 14 tests, 85 wickets @ 23.51
Ajmal without Misbah the captain: 9 tests, 37 wickets @ 35.32

 

[Ironcat]

Also, I don't blame Misbah for 2007, but I fully blame him for 2011. Doesn't matter if anyone did anything or not, the point was that Misbah took it upon himself to stay till the end and stabilize and that means he should have finished off and won the game for Pakistan. Instead, he liked the dot balls more as the RRR went up from 8 to 10 to 13 to 16 to impossible.

On his own, Misbah batted poorly in Mohali.

But, here are others who batted much MORE poorly in that match:

Kamran Akmal†	c Yuvraj Singh b Khan	19
Mohammad Hafeez	c †Dhoni b Patel	43
Asad Shafiq	 b Yuvraj Singh		30
Younis Khan	c Raina b Yuvraj Singh	13
Umar Akmal	 b Harbhajan		29
Abdul Razzaq	 b Patel		3
Shahid Afridi	c Sehwag b Harbhajan	19
Wahab Riaz	c Tendulkar b Nehra	8
Umar Gul	lbw b Nehra		2

 

[Ironcat]

LOL, you mean Misbah's ODI status - Captain Bottler?
& if you see it as a 'tamasha' format why bring the format up? Please take a look at the age of Misbah & compare it to Umar. Umar is starting his career. Misbah is finishing his career. Misbah plays for records. Umar plays for the team

Tamasha format = T20

Umar started his career 3 years ago.

His test average 3 years ago: 60+
His test average today: 35
His projected test average 3 years out: 20

You see he is the kind that regresses. By the age of 38, Umar will have regressed to a tailender.

 

[Namak_Halaal]

You keep psycho analysing players and coming to weird conclusions.

I quoted the words straight from the horses mouth.

But you keep hanging in there with the hope and satisfaction of a draw.

 

[Ironcat]

what you trying to say?

<------------ The point of this discussion

Your head

 

[iZeeshan]

So what prevented Ajmal et al from bamboozling the batsmen on their own without Misbah?

Ajmal with Misbah the captain: 14 tests, 85 wickets @ 23.51
Ajmal without Misbah the captain: 9 tests, 37 wickets @ 35.32

Different conditions, different opponents, different management, different squad, different situation, later in his career, et cetra.

 

[iZeeshan]

On his own, Misbah batted poorly in Mohali.

But, here are others who batted much MORE poorly in that match:

Kamran Akmal†	c Yuvraj Singh b Khan	19
Mohammad Hafeez	c †Dhoni b Patel	43
Asad Shafiq	 b Yuvraj Singh		30
Younis Khan	c Raina b Yuvraj Singh	13
Umar Akmal	 b Harbhajan		29
Abdul Razzaq	 b Patel		3
Shahid Afridi	c Sehwag b Harbhajan	19
Wahab Riaz	c Tendulkar b Nehra	8
Umar Gul	lbw b Nehra		2

Omg. I don't care how others batted. You clearly don't read what I said. Yes, I'd say Afridi is at fault as well, but your dear Misbah took on the task of anchoring and staying till the end, which means, he's supposed to finish the game off, regardless of what happens.

A true-matchwinner would. Misbah didn't because he overestimated his capabilities and bottled the game. And the only reason Afridi deserves blame is because Misbah to some extent probably expected Afridi to come in and score a few runs, HOWEVER, even after Afridi got out, the game still well within reach, yet Misbah kept tuk-tuk-ing and leaving it for later for some reason.

 

[iZeeshan]

Also just because Misbah was the highest scorer for Pak doesn't make everyone else have batted more poorly than him.

You have to look at the situation, the strike rate, when Misbah got most of his runs (ie the six(es) after the game was over), etc.

 

[Ironcat]

Different conditions, different opponents, different management, different squad, different situation, later in his career, et cetra.

Different excuses. Feel free to provide us with some evidence of these excuses though.

Evidence of the same objectivity as I provided.

But, no wait, you don't believe in evidence, do you?

 

[Namak_Halaal]

These Misbots are pretending again.

Bangladesh performed as 'non-minnows' because they beat Sri Lanka in the Asia Cup? What a joke.

The match was a dead rubber for Sri Lanka; they were out of the Asia Cup at that stage. Of course SL bottled it and in the process elimiinated India!

 

[Savak]

I seriously wish there is a Hitler for every Misbah, Mohali, tuk tuk lover on this planet. Only way to stop the madness from spreading.

Sent from my BlackBerry 9360 using Tapatalk

 

[Ironcat]

Also just because Misbah was the highest scorer for Pak doesn't make everyone else have batted more poorly than him.

You have to look at the situation, the strike rate, when Misbah got most of his runs (ie the six(es) after the game was over), etc.

Tendulkar's SR = 74. Tendulkar = MOTM.

Misbah's SR = 74. So....?

 

[Namak_Halaal]

Different conditions, different opponents, different management, different squad, different situation, later in his career, et cetra.

Spot on.

Plus Ajmal was playing early in his career.

Anyway, Amjal did perform when it mattered - 2009 T20 WC without Misbah.

He has developed in time gaining more experience, and Misbah is blatantly riding on his coat-tails

 

[Ironcat]

Omg. I don't care how others batted. You clearly don't read what I said. Yes, I'd say Afridi is at fault as well, but your dear Misbah took on the task of anchoring and staying till the end, which means, he's supposed to finish the game off, regardless of what happens.

A true-matchwinner would. Misbah didn't because he overestimated his capabilities and bottled the game. And the only reason Afridi deserves blame is because Misbah to some extent probably expected Afridi to come in and score a few runs, HOWEVER, even after Afridi got out, the game still well within reach, yet Misbah kept tuk-tuk-ing and leaving it for later for some reason.

I didn't say Misbah achieved nirvana in that match.

But, all others were to be blamed MORE than him. That's as simple as it comes.

 

[shahrukh619]

Let me remind you: This thread is not a comparison between Misbah and Afridi. He has nothing to do with this debate. You want to talk about Afridi in a Misbah thread all the time, go open up a Misbah vs Afridi thread.

Stop defending Misbah using Afridi. I don't care whether it's right or wrong - it's irrelevant.

Also, I don't blame Misbah for 2007, but I fully blame him for 2011. Doesn't matter if anyone did anything or not, the point was that Misbah took it upon himself to stay till the end and stabilize and that means he should have finished off and won the game for Pakistan. Instead, he liked the dot balls more as the RRR went up from 8 to 10 to 13 to 16 to impossible.

again let me ask you, what did the so called boom boom players did that day? AFridi, Razzaq and Umar Akmal are known for hitting boundaries, even Kamran Akmal, what did they do that day? WHy din't they do there BOOM BOOM style batting??

If these people have got a reputation then they should stick up to there reputation and actually win it...

You say it doesn't matter what otehrs did.. What do you mean? So all what matters is Misbah innings, and nothing else?

I think some people don't know our technique.

Make a good start, stabilise don't lose wickets, attack at the end... That is why Umar AKmal, Afridi and Razzaq at at the lower order to attack!! Now plz don't blame Misbah forn the line up, because Misbah wasn't captain at that time, it was your very own Afridi....

And its also funny how now they blame Misbah for the semi final loss, but not Afridi who was the captain. Just like when they blame everyone loss on Misbah as he is the captain..

AFridi was the captain, he kept on using Umar gul. What about that?

I bring u AFridi, because you people blindly critisize Misbah, but when Afridi does the same, who never say anything to him........

 

[Ironcat]

Spot on.

Plus Ajmal was playing early in his career.

Anyway, Amjal did perform when it mattered - 2009 T20 WC without Misbah.

He has developed in time gaining more experience, and Misbah is blatantly riding on his coat-tails

Wrong.

Ajmal's average in his first series 30.

In his second 58.

In his third 112.

Clearly, playing more is irrelevant if you don't have the proper help.

Playing under a great captain and a coach made all the difference to him.

 

[shahrukh619]

Sri Lanka! Ho ho ho! Are you talking about the same team players who bottled it in the 3rd Test? As for India losing, well that was because of Sachin's selfish knock.

Misbots are now becoming a joke in this thread.. They want us to believe Bangladesh were heavyweights in the Asia Cup and include the Asia Cup win in Misbah's ODI record, but they will never talk about the 1-7 pasting Misbah was handed on a plate.

as i said before, you can't use the minnow tag here for the Asia Cup, as Bangladesh came out to be a challenge for everyone!

 

[shahrukh619]

Misbah's test average: 45.68
Misbah's ODI average: 42.15
Misbah's test status: Captain
Misbah' ODI status: Captain

Umar Akmal's test average: 35.82
Umar Akmal's ODI average: 38.48
Umar Akmal's test status Kicked out
Umar Akmal's ODI status: Slotted in the lower middle order

So, you see, if you want to compare the two in this thread, you will have to dig up a tamasha format as your only consolation.

mashallah! Good stuff from Misbah. Defienetly a LEGEND!

Is that the second highest batting average amongest Pakistanis? Zaheer Abbas is no1 right?

 

[Bullet Drive]

Bullet Drive just schooled himself:



Vs

again let me ask you, what did the so called boom boom players did that day? AFridi, Razzaq and Umar Akmal are known for hitting boundaries, even Kamran Akmal, what did they do that day? WHy din't they do there BOOM BOOM style batting??

If these people have got a reputation then they should stick up to there reputation and actually win it...

You say it doesn't matter what otehrs did.. What do you mean? So all what matters is Misbah innings, and nothing else?

I think some people don't know our technique.

Make a good start, stabilise don't lose wickets, attack at the end... That is why Umar AKmal, Afridi and Razzaq at at the lower order to attack!! Now plz don't blame Misbah forn the line up, because Misbah wasn't captain at that time, it was your very own Afridi....

And its also funny how now they blame Misbah for the semi final loss, but not Afridi who was the captain. Just like when they blame everyone loss on Misbah as he is the captain..

AFridi was the captain, he kept on using Umar gul. What about that?

I bring u AFridi, because you people blindly critisize Misbah, but when Afridi does the same, who never say anything to him........

Don't see how I 'schooled' my self. I said its Misbah's biggest test because it is and I also said SA aren't much at home. I'll say it again. SA aren't much at home yet it is Misbah's biggest test.

& yet again Shahrukh brings out Afridi & Umar Akmal. Mohali was Misbah's fault. He calculated the chase wrong as he has done numerous times. Also Shahrukh you your self said 'Misbah played like that to make his 2000 ODI run'. You said that your self after Mohali.

 

[shahrukh619]

Bullet Drive just schooled himself:



Vs

Nice catch.....

So BD would do anything to bash Misbah! Misbah hater!

 

[shahrukh619]

So what prevented Ajmal et al from bamboozling the batsmen on their own without Misbah?

Ajmal with Misbah the captain: 14 tests, 85 wickets @ 23.51
Ajmal without Misbah the captain: 9 tests, 37 wickets @ 35.32

captaincy does make a difference at the end:khalil

 

[Bullet Drive]

mashallah! Good stuff from Misbah. Defienetly a LEGEND!

Is that the second highest batting average amongest Pakistanis? Zaheer Abbas is no1 right?

Difference is in 60 ODI innings Zaheer got 7 tons.
Misbah in 92 innings has 0 tons.

Misbah playing in this day and age has been going at an SR of a pathetic 74 whilst Zaheer went at a SR of 84 when times were a lot different.

Misbah is no legend. He's no where near a legend.

 

[Bullet Drive]

Nice catch.....

So BD would do anything to bash Misbah! Misbah hater!

captaincy does make a difference at the end:khalil

LOL, how pathetic. I don't even think you read it properly. If you read it properly you would see how Ironcat changes & twists everything.

& Misbah's captaincy made a difference to Ajmal's bowling? Now I've heard it all haha. Ajmal has improved a lot as a test bowler to when he started. He initially was a very poor test bowler. He has come a lot since then, not down to Misbah.

& Misbah the test batsman? He constantly gives away his starts the same way he does in ODI's. Misbah has 3 test centuries in 61 test innings and guess who they have come against? The mighty Indian attack & the mighty West Indies attack. Yes that's right. Misbah has 3 international tons for Pakistan despite playing for over a decade and despite playing 203 games. Those tons have come against West Indies & India. Even Imran Nazir has better test centuries then him. Every time Misbah has gone past 50-100 with a not out. Pakistan has lost or drawn.

 

[shahrukh619]

'Misbah played like that to make his 2000 ODI run'. You said that your self after Mohali.

yes i said that.. But still he wasn't the whole cause of the loss..

 

[shahrukh619]

Difference is in 60 ODI innings Zaheer got 7 tons.
Misbah in 92 innings has 0 tons.

Misbah playing in this day and age has been going at an SR of a pathetic 74 whilst Zaheer went at a SR of 84 when times were a lot different.

Misbah is no legend. He's no where near a legend.

Tons? 100s don't really matter unless you are a consisstent batsmen....

Misbah, has proven to be a consisstent batsmen, without scoring any ton..

Misbah's average without a single 100= 46
Afridi's average with 4-5 100(s)=23

 

[shahrukh619]

btw, didn't Javaid Miandad played a slow innings in a world cup? 1996 world cup? is he a bad player for that then?

 

[Ironcat]

Don't see how I 'schooled' my self. I said its Misbah's biggest test because it is and I also said SA aren't much at home. I'll say it again. SA aren't much at home yet it is Misbah's biggest test.

So, let's hear if SA aren't much at home, then who is?

Are England much at home?

Are the Aussies much at home?

And if your answer is YES, then based on what twisted logic is the SA tour our biggest test?

 

[Bullet Drive]

So, let's hear if SA aren't much at home, then who is?

Are England much at home?

Are the Aussies much at home?

And if your answer is YES, then based on what twisted logic is the SA tour our biggest test?

England are a good team at home, yes. One of the best.

India are a good team at home, yes.

Australia are a good team at home, yes.

Pakistan are a good team at home(UAE), yes.

The only team which aren't so good at home are SA yet this is Misbah's biggest test. He won't face a team as big as this despite SA being not as good at home as they are away.

 

[Ironcat]

LOL, how pathetic. I don't even think you read it properly. If you read it properly you would see how Ironcat changes & twists everything.

= "I have no answer to his numbers."

& Misbah's captaincy made a difference to Ajmal's bowling? Now I've heard it all haha. Ajmal has improved a lot as a test bowler to when he started. He initially was a very poor test bowler. He has come a lot since then, not down to Misbah.

So, what changed? Did he get a spin MBA from Harvard? Did he enlist in The Subcontinental Spin Army? Or did he have finger implants? Tell me. What changed?

& Misbah the test batsman? He constantly gives away his starts the same way he does in ODI's. Misbah has 3 test centuries in 61 test innings and guess who they have come against? The mighty Indian attack & the mighty West Indies attack. Yes that's right. Misbah has 3 international tons for Pakistan despite playing for over a decade and despite playing 203 games. Those tons have come against West Indies & India. Even Imran Nazir has better test centuries then him. Every time Misbah has gone past 50-100 with a not out. Pakistan has lost or drawn.

Misbah has 3 tons in 36 tests. U Akmal has 1 ton in 16 tests. Pie in the face.

Misbah has a 60 average in wins or draws for the team. He averaged 46 overall. He has a test rank of 14.

 

[Bullet Drive]

yes i said that.. But still he wasn't the whole cause of the loss..

Tons? 100s don't really matter unless you are a consisstent batsmen....

Misbah, has proven to be a consisstent batsmen, without scoring any ton..

Misbah's average without a single 100= 46
Afridi's average with 4-5 100(s)=23

btw, didn't Javaid Miandad played a slow innings in a world cup? 1996 world cup? is he a bad player for that then?

There you have it. Shahrukh said that Misbah played for records and played the way he did in Mohali for his 2000th run. Also Ironcat bets against Misbah despite showing immense love for him.

Tons of course matter. Tons win you games. Misbah don't win you games. 2 MOTM in 102 games proves how much games Misbah has won for Pakistan. & yes Misbah is consistent, consistent at losing us high pressure games and bottling it at the wrong time.

& please take a look at the batting positions Afridi bats. He either opens or bats low down the order. When bats low down the order he has to come into slog and its the last few overs. + also Afridi has 34 man of the match performances. This shows that he's a match winner despite having a 23 batting average. Remember he also has 300+ ODI wickets.

 

[Ironcat]

England are a good team at home, yes. One of the best.

India are a good team at home, yes.

Australia are a good team at home, yes.

Pakistan are a good team at home(UAE), yes.

Pakistan's home is UAE?

You know there are more Indians living in UAE than Pakistanis?

The only team which aren't so good at home are SA yet this is Misbah's biggest test. He won't face a team as big as this despite SA being not as good at home as they are away.

Let's review this logic.

Team A is really tough at home.

Team B is average at home.

So, simple logic would state that the biggest test is against Team A.

But, the Bullet Drive logic states that the biggest test is against Team B.

 

[Bullet Drive]

= "I have no answer to his numbers."


So, what changed? Did he get a spin MBA from Harvard? Did he enlist in The Subcontinental Spin Army? Or did he have finger implants? Tell me. What changed?


Misbah has 3 tons in 36 tests. U Akmal has 1 ton in 16 tests. Pie in the face.

Misbah has a 60 average in wins or draws for the team. He averaged 46 overall. He has a test rank of 14.

Which numbers did you post? Post them again and I will reply.

& Ajmal improved as a bowler. That's what you don't understand. Players improve and develop. Are you seriously saying that Misbah's captaincy has helped Ajmal improve? Pathetic to say the least, well that was expected.

And once again comparing Umar Akmal to Misbah. Misbah is 38 finishing his career. Umar is 21 starting his career.

Please name me one good solid test knock Misbah has played against a top quality attack in testing conditions?

Please then name me an ODI knock Misbah has played against a nation ranked higher than Pakistan? Please do so & make sure you respond to this. Don't bottle it like Misbah.

 

[Bullet Drive]

Pakistan's home is UAE?

You know there are more Indians living in UAE than Pakistanis?


Let's review this logic.

Team A is really tough at home.

Team B is average at home.

So, simple logic would state that the biggest test is against Team A.

But, the Bullet Drive logic states that the biggest test is against Team B.

Which test playing nation knows UAE conditions the most? Pakistan therefore its in favour of us.

& your just twisting stuff again. I'll repeat: SA aren't much a team at home. They have a poor record at home losing to SL & India yet this still is Misbah's biggest test as a captain and as a player. Misbah has not faced any tough challenges as a captain.

 

[Bullet Drive]

Captain fantastic.

Ironkitten, you've gone a bit quite?

 

[Ironcat]

Which test playing nation knows UAE conditions the most? Pakistan therefore its in favour of us.

Before the England series in UAE, Pakistan had played the most tests in the last 3 years in England. So that makes England our home, not UAE.

& your just twisting stuff again. I'll repeat: SA aren't much a team at home. They have a poor record at home losing to SL & India yet this still is Misbah's biggest test as a captain and as a player. Misbah has not faced any tough challenges as a captain.

So, let's see.

The #1 team in the world goes to Aus and wins 3-1.

The #1 team in the world goes to SA and draws 1-1.

The #1 team in the world goes to SL and draws 1-1.

The #1 team in the world goes to UAE and loses 0-3.

So, on what planet does beating the #1 team in the world that doesn't lose anywhere away - let alone on neutral grounds - not qualify as the toughest challenge?

 

[Ironcat]

Captain fantastic.

Ironkitten, you've gone a bit quite?

Sure, I've schooled you "quite" well.

Unfortunately, it looks like you were given a choice between photoshop skills and debating skills when the Almighty was creating this universe.

 

[Bullet Drive]

Which test playing nation knows UAE conditions the most? Pakistan therefore its in favour of us.

Before the England series in UAE, Pakistan had played the most tests in the last 3 years in England. So that makes England our home, not UAE.


So, let's see.

The #1 team in the world goes to Aus and wins 3-1.

The #1 team in the world goes to SA and draws 1-1.

The #1 team in the world goes to SL and draws 1-1.

The #1 team in the world goes to UAE and loses 0-3.

So, on what planet does beating the #1 team in the world that doesn't lose anywhere away - let alone on neutral grounds - not qualify as the toughest challenge?

Please respond to post #1396 Ironkitty.

& no your twisting stuff again. UAE conditions are known by Pakistan. We can 'doctor' the pitch to our needs. When we play their we have the 'home advantage' It doesn't mean home. It really means we can decide which pitch to use and how it will play etc. No other team has that option in the UAE apart from Pakistan.

& no. The SA tour will be the toughest challenge for Misbah. Its tougher than beating Englan in spinning conditions. Misbah is finally going away and touring a nation ranked higher than our team. He is playing in tough conditions(SA bouncy pitches) and his captaincy will be tested there. We must go in to win and critics will be after him to see the way he performs both as a player and as a captain. Now before the UAE tour we all knew that England cannot play spin. They were hammered by India in spinning conditions so we knew we had one over them in terms of them playing our quality spinner in Ajmal. We also were playing at UAE, conditions which suit us and we were not going away into conditions which offer bounce.

 

[Bullet Drive]

Sure, I've schooled you "quite" well.

Unfortunately, it looks like you were given a choice between photoshop skills and debating skills when the Almighty was creating this universe.

Says Mr.Ironkitty who still hasn't answered post #1396 & is the one who bets against his own love

 

[iZeeshan]

I didn't say Misbah achieved nirvana in that match.

But, all others were to be blamed MORE than him. That's as simple as it comes.

Ironcat, if you actually read what I'm saying rather than just repeat yourself then you would understand.

Just because they scored less than Misbah, DOES NOT mean that they are more to blame. What part of "Misbah decided to play the role of a stabilizer and anchor and staying till the end and then not being able to finish the game" did you not understand?

This isn't about who scored more or who scored less, yes I admitted Afridi was at fault, but you're clearly not reading and repeating yourself without actually responding to what I'm saying.

Different excuses. Feel free to provide us with some evidence of these excuses though.

Evidence of the same objectivity as I provided.

But, no wait, you don't believe in evidence, do you?

Tendulkar's SR = 74. Tendulkar = MOTM.

Misbah's SR = 74. So....?

See I knew you would do this. Look at HOW Misbah achieved his SR of 74. Go look at the commentary. I dare you.

Tendulkar was batting first and opening. If Misbah got a 100 at SR of 74 while opening that's a fantastic innings.

Look at the CONTEXT of the innings and the match and stop pulling out seemingly similar stats over and over. You do believe in context don't you? Or is every cricket match exactly the same?

 

[Ironcat]

Also Ironcat bets against Misbah despite showing immense love for him.

After 17K posts, Bullet Drive's originality in argument = Umar Akmal's regresing test career.

Tons of course matter. Tons win you games. Misbah don't win you games. 2 MOTM in 102 games proves how much games Misbah has won for Pakistan. & yes Misbah is consistent, consistent at losing us high pressure games and bottling it at the wrong time.

Pakistan's W-L with Misbah as captain 9-1.

Misbah's batting average in wins or draws: 60

Umar Akmal's batting average in wins or draws: 33

So, whatever it is that Misbah does (and remember he doesn't bowl) ends up being MUCH, MUCH more effective for us than Umar Akmal or anyone else in the team.

 

[Bullet Drive]

Iron cat for the 3rd time you have ignored my post where I have asked you a question. I repeat please answer post #1396

 

[iZeeshan]

Different excuses. Feel free to provide us with some evidence of these excuses though.

Evidence of the same objectivity as I provided.

But, no wait, you don't believe in evidence, do you?

How are they excuses Ironcat? These are very legitimate points.

There is a difference in morale and the team. There's a HUGE difference in conditions. The pitches in England were conducive to pace while the pitches in UAE were all about spin (English spinners did very well as well).

Ajmal was beginning his career then, whereas under Misbah he had become a bit more experienced (didn't do that well in the beginning either under Misbah, I bet you ignored that) and improved as he played more.

I don't see what evidence your providing me. How can you just ignore all the context? Statistics aren't everything my man.

'There are three kinds of statistics: lies, damned lies, and statistics' - Mark Twain.

This quote essentially states that you can't take stats at face value and actually have to study/analyze the situation. Do you actually watch cricket or just pull up everything on statsguru and make your argument from there?

 

[Bullet Drive]

After 17K posts, Bullet Drive's originality in argument = Umar Akmal's regresing test career.


Pakistan's W-L with Misbah as captain 9-1.

Misbah's batting average in wins or draws: 60

Umar Akmal's batting average in wins or draws: 33

So, whatever it is that Misbah does (and remember he doesn't bowl) ends up being MUCH, MUCH more effective for us than Umar Akmal or anyone else in the team.

So yet again you ignore everything and bring up an irrelevant point? Yep, pretty much sums you up.

 

[Ironcat]

Ironcat, if you actually read what I'm saying rather than just repeat yourself then you would understand.

Just because they scored less than Misbah, DOES NOT mean that they are more to blame. What part of "Misbah decided to play the role of a stabilizer and anchor and staying till the end and then not being able to finish the game" did you not understand?

This isn't about who scored more or who scored less, yes I admitted Afridi was at fault, but you're clearly not reading and repeating yourself without actually responding to what I'm saying.

See I knew you would do this. Look at HOW Misbah achieved his SR of 74. Go look at the commentary. I dare you.

Tendulkar was batting first and opening. If Misbah got a 100 at SR of 74 while opening that's a fantastic innings.

Look at the CONTEXT of the innings and the match and stop pulling out seemingly similar stats over and over. You do believe in context don't you? Or is every cricket match exactly the same?

Nice try, but it doesn't work.

Tendy scored 85 at a SR of 74, meaning he left 185 deliveries for his team mates to score 175 runs in. His team mates scored 175 runs at a SR of 95.

Misbah scored 56 at a SR of 74, meaning he left 224 deliveries for his team mates to score 204 runs in. His team mates scored 175 runs at a SR of 78.

Q. E. D.

 

[iZeeshan]

again let me ask you, what did the so called boom boom players did that day? AFridi, Razzaq and Umar Akmal are known for hitting boundaries, even Kamran Akmal, what did they do that day? WHy din't they do there BOOM BOOM style batting??

If these people have got a reputation then they should stick up to there reputation and actually win it...

You say it doesn't matter what otehrs did.. What do you mean? So all what matters is Misbah innings, and nothing else?

I think some people don't know our technique.

Make a good start, stabilise don't lose wickets, attack at the end... That is why Umar AKmal, Afridi and Razzaq at at the lower order to attack!! Now plz don't blame Misbah forn the line up, because Misbah wasn't captain at that time, it was your very own Afridi....

And its also funny how now they blame Misbah for the semi final loss, but not Afridi who was the captain. Just like when they blame everyone loss on Misbah as he is the captain..

AFridi was the captain, he kept on using Umar gul. What about that?

I bring u AFridi, because you people blindly critisize Misbah, but when Afridi does the same, who never say anything to him........

...you completely ignored everything I wrote and just repeated your own crap. Where did I say the others aren't to blame - they are!

But the MAIN culprit is Misbah because he took it upon himself to anchor and stabilize (aka play slowly and up the RRR) and then could not end up finishing the game. That is the end of that.

Even when Afridi got out, the game was well in the hand, but Misbah was tuk-ing and bottled it.

Also, I find it disgusting that you call me a blind hater when I clearly told you that I don't blame Misbah for 2007 and have repeatedly given him credit for what I think he deserves. I also blame Afridi when the opportunity arises. So don't insult me or quote me bringing Afridi as your defense for Misbah.

 

[iZeeshan]

Nice try, but it doesn't work.

Tendy scored 85 at a SR of 74, meaning he left 185 deliveries for his team mates to score 175 runs in. His team mates scored 175 runs at a SR of 95.

Misbah scored 56 at a SR of 74, meaning he left 224 deliveries for his team mates to score 204 runs in. His team mates scored 175 runs at a SR of 78.

Q. E. D.

How the hell does that even make sense? You're acting as if Misbah and Tendulkar both opened the innings and batted BY THEMSELVES and the next 10 are still to come in.

Your logic makes no sense at all.

Ironcat = Schooled

See how it feels.

 

[Ironcat]

Which numbers did you post? Post them again and I will reply.

Post # 1365. Learn to read.

& Ajmal improved as a bowler. That's what you don't understand. Players improve and develop. Are you seriously saying that Misbah's captaincy has helped Ajmal improve? Pathetic to say the least, well that was expected.

So, like I said, what changed? Did he get a spin MBA from Harvard? Did he enlist in The Subcontinental Spin Army? Or did he have finger implants? Tell me. What changed?

I only see one change and that's the captain.

And once again comparing Umar Akmal to Misbah. Misbah is 38 finishing his career. Umar is 21 starting his career.

Umar started his career 3 years ago.

His test average 3 years ago: 60+
His test average today: 35
His projected test average 3 years out: 20

You see he is the kind that regresses. By the age of 38, Umar will have regressed to a tailender.

Please name me one good solid test knock Misbah has played against a top quality attack in testing conditions?

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/531629.html

Pie in the face.

Please then name me an ODI knock Misbah has played against a nation ranked higher than Pakistan? Please do so & make sure you respond to this. Don't bottle it like Misbah.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/335355.html

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/392620.html

Pie in the face.

 

[Ironcat]

How the hell does that even make sense? You're acting as if Misbah and Tendulkar both opened the innings and batted BY THEMSELVES and the next 10 are still to come in.

Your logic makes no sense at all.

Ironcat = Schooled

See how it feels.

Now that you have no reply, you resort to your familiar tactics. Run away. Are the numbers getting too dense for you?

The rest of Misbah's mates that came before him miserably failed when they didn't even have a lower SR pressure on them. Tendy's mates didn't have the luxury of making up later on.

So, the only person schooled here is you, iZ.

 

[Ironcat]

Iron cat for the 3rd time you have ignored my post where I have asked you a question. I repeat please answer post #1396

Are you about to board a train? Or do you need to run to the washroom? I'm confused.

 

[Ironcat]

There is a difference in morale and the team. There's a HUGE difference in conditions.

And who is responsible for the proper morale in the team? The leader. The captain. Imran. Jobs. Waugh.

The pitches in England were conducive to pace while the pitches in UAE were all about spin (English spinners did very well as well).

We had the best pace bowlng attack in England. Plus, Ajmal picked up a a 5-for and a 4-for in that England series.

Ajmal was beginning his career then, whereas under Misbah he had become a bit more experienced (didn't do that well in the beginning either under Misbah, I bet you ignored that) and improved as he played more.

Umar Akmal was averaging 60 at the start of his career and now he averages 35. Regression. Playing more means squat unless someone guides you and leads you properly AND you are willing to learn.

Ajmal did poorly initially under Misbah and then he improved. Perfect proof of the captain helping him improve.

I don't see what evidence your providing me. How can you just ignore all the context? Statistics aren't everything my man.

Numbers are objective. They don't contain biases such as the blind hatred against captains or players.

'There are three kinds of statistics: lies, damned lies, and statistics' -

Whenever I hear this on this forum, I take it as that the poster has no other evidence to provide.

BTW, does anyone remember that Ajmal post-UAE interview where he gave tons of credit to Misbah himself? I am trying to find that article.

 

[iZeeshan]

Now that you have no reply, you resort to your familiar tactics. Run away. Are the numbers getting too dense for you?

The rest of Misbah's mates that came before him miserably failed when they didn't even have a lower SR pressure on them. Tendy's mates didn't have the luxury of making up later on.

So, the only person schooled here is you, iZ.

How can you say I have no reply when I just gave you one

Man, Tendulkar opened the innings. Misbah came in at 5. He batted at 66 SR for the majority of his innings until the game was pretty much over and he hit a couple of sixes to boost his SR.

Go look at the commentary, I dare you.

Also, Hafeez scored 42, which was a pretty good start. It's not as if Misbah came in at 30/3 - that's a miserable failure.

What the hell does Tendulkar and his SR have anything to do with this anyway? Different game, different opponent, different situation. Tendulkar batted first, Misbah was chasing. Not even the same scenario.

Tendulkar scored 100, Misbah scored 50. Same SR, but if that's your logic, shall we compare a 50 by Misbah to a UA 3 (4)? Same SR - why can't we make that comparison?

 

[Bullet Drive]

Ironcat, I said testing conditions. Those conditions weren't really testing. Cook & Trott both scored 70+ scores that game. All Pakistan batsman got starts and failed to convert. That shows the pitch was a good batting pitch. Just batsman failed to apply them selves.

& those two ODI knocks, yet again Misbah playing second fiddle. That's all he can do. He never takes charge and goes for the charge him self. Both time he's done well were when someone was aggressive at the other end.

& your saying Ajmal improved under Misbah because of the captain helping Ajmal improve. Why hasn't captain fantastic helped Umar improve then?

 

[iZeeshan]

And who is responsible for the proper morale in the team? The leader. The captain. Imran. Jobs. Waugh.


We had the best pace bowlng attack in England. Plus, Ajmal picked up a a 5-for and a 4-for in that England series.


Umar Akmal was averaging 60 at the start of his career and now he averages 35. Regression. Playing more means squat unless someone guides you and leads you properly AND you are willing to learn.

Ajmal did poorly initially under Misbah and then he improved. Perfect proof of the captain helping him improve.


Numbers are objective. They don't contain biases such as the blind hatred against captains or players.


Whenever I hear this on this forum, I take it as that the poster has no other evidence to provide.

BTW, does anyone remember that Ajmal post-UAE interview where he gave tons of credit to Misbah himself? I am trying to find that article.

Hm, it's hard to argue with the Ajmal point but I'll have to look into the statistics of pre-Misbah and post-Misbah Ajmal career.

But honestly, if you had actually WATCHED the England series (did you or did you not watch?) you would understand that Misbah's captaincy had no more effect on Ajmal then he himself inflicted on England without Misbah's help.

Though I can't really argue properly right now because I'm at work with the fact that Misbah helped Ajmal improve.

However, you are completely wrong about numbers not having biases.

If I give you this:

Player A scores 53
Player B scores 86

Which player is better? According to numbers, it'd obviously be player B.

Now what if I told you that the 53 was off 33 balls? Or that the 86 was off 141 balls? Or what if I told you that the 53 was against Australia in Australia and the 86 was against Bangladesh in a dead-rubber.

Now which player do you value more?

it's a very plain example that's exxaggerated but it proves that numbers don't always tell the whole story and they are most definitely not objective.

To follow your tradition, Ironcat = SCHOOLED PWNED OWNED BLITZED whatever else you say these days.

 

[Ironcat]

Man, Tendulkar opened the innings. Misbah came in at 5. He batted at 66 SR for the majority of his innings until the game was pretty much over and he hit a couple of sixes to boost his SR.

Who cares whether he had a SR of 66 first and then higher later. In his 75 deliveries he did his job. It was to the rest of the team to do their job as well.

Also, Hafeez scored 42, which was a pretty good start. It's not as if Misbah came in at 30/3 - that's a miserable failure.

Hafeez scored at a lower SR than Misbah. If you wanna quote his example, then that means SR = meaningless.

What the hell does Tendulkar and his SR have anything to do with this anyway? Different game, different opponent, different situation. Tendulkar batted first, Misbah was chasing. Not even the same scenario.

Hello? Tendy played the same game. Same pitch. Probably tougher bowlers. He had the luxury of the poerplay and Sehwag batting on the other end + Gul's pies.

Tendulkar scored 100, Misbah scored 50. Same SR, but if that's your logic, shall we compare a 50 by Misbah to a UA 3 (4)? Same SR - why can't we make that comparison?

You are short-circuiting. YOU are the one using the SR argument. I am simply showing you the mirror that it's a useless argument as the MOTM also had the same SR.

 

[iZeeshan]

Ironcat, I said testing conditions. Those conditions weren't really testing. Cook & Trott both scored 70+ scores that game. All Pakistan batsman got starts and failed to convert. That shows the pitch was a good batting pitch. Just batsman failed to apply them selves.

& those two ODI knocks, yet again Misbah playing second fiddle. That's all he can do. He never takes charge and goes for the charge him self. Both time he's done well were when someone was aggressive at the other end.

& your saying Ajmal improved under Misbah because of the captain helping Ajmal improve. Why hasn't captain fantastic helped Umar improve then?

Good point! He'll say because Umar Akmal is a turd, brainfarter, useless, not willing to learn blah blah but now all statistics will be thrown out the window, i.e (him performing well before)

And actually, I think the reason for Umar's failure is actually Misbah. Too often they bat together and Umar ends up getting out because Misbah is driving up the RRR

But Umar has also had good performances with Misbah in ODIs so it's hard to pinpoint actually.

 

[Ayyubjavvs]

Hah Bullet Drive you clearly didn't watch the match you're talking about

In the game v Australia (5th match 2009) Misbah STARTED off hitting, only after he got to 18 off 10 balls or something (against Hauritz) did Kamran Akmal get confidence and start playing well. Misbah STARTED out hitting and then became second fiddle when Kamran started to grow confidence. Then he finished tyhe game off with a few fours

You can check the Cricinfo commentary. Pakistan were 56 for 3 in 16 overs and Misbah started hitting before Kamran joined in in a superb partnership

http://www.espncricinfo.com/pakvaus2009/engine/match/392620.html?innings=2;page=1;view=commentary

End of over 16 (3 runs) Pakistan 56/3 (195 runs required from 34 overs, RR: 3.50, RRR: 5.73)
NM Hauritz 3-0-8-2
Kamran Akmal 3* (9b) DE Bollinger 5-0-20-0
16.1
Bollinger to Kamran Akmal, 2 runs, angles it on the pads and he clips it to deep square leg
16.2
Bollinger to Kamran Akmal, FOUR, shot of the evening, Kamran shows the full face of the bat and pushes a half volley right back past the bowler, the ball disappears quickly and Kamran is so proud of that shot that he walks down the pitch and continues to show the full face of the bat
16.3
Bollinger to Kamran Akmal, no run
16.4
Bollinger to Kamran Akmal, no run, the ball darts away sharply off the pitch and foxes everybody, Haddin does well to fall to his right and save it
16.5
Bollinger to Kamran Akmal, no run, shows the full face of the bat and defends
16.6
Bollinger to Kamran Akmal, 1 run, opens the face of the bat and steers it wide of second slip
End of over 17 (7 runs) Pakistan 63/3 (188 runs required from 33 overs, RR: 3.70, RRR: 5.69)
Kamran Akmal 10* (15b 1x4) DE Bollinger 6-0-27-0
Misbah-ul-Haq 0* (0b) NM Hauritz 3-0-8-2
17.1
Hauritz to Kamran Akmal, no run, gets forward and the ball clips his pad
17.2
Hauritz to Kamran Akmal, no run, sweeps but gets an under edge
17.3
Hauritz to Kamran Akmal, no run, gets right across his stumps and defends
17.4
Hauritz to Kamran Akmal, no run, rocks back and chops it down to point
17.5
Hauritz to Kamran Akmal, 2 runs, gets on his knee and sweeps to fine leg
17.6
Hauritz to Kamran Akmal, no run, gets forward and the ball lobs off his pads and Ferguson leaps up and claims the catch, the bowler and umpire weren't interested, the bat was nowhere near the ball
End of over 18 (2 runs) Pakistan 65/3 (186 runs required from 32 overs, RR: 3.61, RRR: 5.81)
Kamran Akmal 12* (21b 1x4) NM Hauritz 4-0-10-2
Misbah-ul-Haq 0* (0b) DE Bollinger 6-0-27-0
18.1
Clarke to Misbah-ul-Haq, FOUR, lovely shot, Misbah fetches a sharp turner from outside off and pulls hard past short midwicket
18.2
Clarke to Misbah-ul-Haq, 1 run, gets beside the line and steers it towards point
18.3
Clarke to Kamran Akmal, 1 run, rocks back and cuts to point
18.4
Clarke to Misbah-ul-Haq, 1 run
18.5
Clarke to Kamran Akmal, 1 run, full outside off and he drives to point
18.6
Clarke to Misbah-ul-Haq, FOUR, he slashes late and gets a thick edge which just beats first slip, Hilfenhaus chases like his life depends on it and almost pulls it back at third man
End of over 19 (12 runs) Pakistan 77/3 (174 runs required from 31 overs, RR: 4.05, RRR: 5.61)
Misbah-ul-Haq 10* (4b 2x4) MJ Clarke 1-0-12-0
Kamran Akmal 14* (23b 1x4) NM Hauritz 4-0-10-2
19.1
Hauritz to Kamran Akmal, 3 runs, nudges it with the turn to fine leg and the fielder mops up
19.2
Hauritz to Misbah-ul-Haq, no run, strikes him outside the line of the offstump and Ferguson dives to his left and tries to take it on the full, no bat involved
19.3
Hauritz to Misbah-ul-Haq, 2 runs, gets on his knee and sweeps to deep square-leg
19.4
Hauritz to Misbah-ul-Haq, 1 run
19.5
Hauritz to Kamran Akmal, FOUR, opens the face of the bat and delicately steers it past slip, he places it wide if short third man, intelligent cricket by Akmal
19.6
Hauritz to Kamran Akmal, 1 run, paddles it around the corner
End of over 20 (11 runs) Pakistan 88/3 (163 runs required from 30 overs, RR: 4.40, RRR: 5.43)
Kamran Akmal 22* (26b 2x4) NM Hauritz 5-0-21-2
Misbah-ul-Haq 13* (7b 2x4) MJ Clarke 1-0-12-0
20.1
Clarke to Kamran Akmal, 1 run, stays back and punches it against the turn to long-on
20.2
Clarke to Misbah-ul-Haq, no run, turned softly to midwicket
20.3
Clarke to Misbah-ul-Haq, FOUR, fractionally short, he waits for the turn, plays it late and slashes with control wide of short third man, the ball runs to sweeper cover boundary
20.4
Clarke to Misbah-ul-Haq, 1 run, stays back and cuts down to short third man
20.5
Clarke to Kamran Akmal, no run, the arm ball cramps him for room and fizzes past the outside edge, lovely ball
20.6
Clarke to Kamran Akmal, 1 run, shuffles and clips it to the on side
39 off the last five overs, Pakistan are hitting back here
End of over 21 (7 runs) Pakistan 95/3 (156 runs required from 29 overs, RR: 4.52, RRR: 5.37)
Kamran Akmal 24* (29b 2x4) MJ Clarke 2-0-19-0
Misbah-ul-Haq 18* (10b 3x4) NM Hauritz 5-0-21-2
21.1
Hauritz to Kamran Akmal, 2 runs, deliberately cuts it late past slip, he's toying with the bowler here
21.2
Hauritz to Kamran Akmal, 4 byes, lucky! He drives hard on the front foot and misses it completely, the to spinner beats the batsman, keeper and slip
21.3
Hauritz to Kamran Akmal, no run, stays back and chops it hard to point
21.4
Hauritz to Kamran Akmal, no run, the top spinner really kicks up and beats the edge, he slashes and misses
21.5
Hauritz to Kamran Akmal, 1 run, nudges it against the turn and takes a single to mid-on
21.6
Hauritz to Misbah-ul-Haq, 1 run, taps it to the off side and Akmal set off like a cheetah at the other end
End of over 22 (8 runs) Pakistan 103/3 (148 runs required from 28 overs, RR: 4.68, RRR: 5.28)
Misbah-ul-Haq 19* (11b 3x4) NM Hauritz 6-0-25-2
Kamran Akmal 27* (34b 2x4) MJ Clarke 2-0-19-0
These two have added 47 in 6 overs. Here's Laughlin
22.1
Laughlin to Misbah-ul-Haq, FOUR, starts off poorly by overpitching on the pads and he glances it on its way and exploits the big gap at fine leg, that's the 50 stand as well
22.2
Laughlin to Misbah-ul-Haq, 1 run, on the pads and he clips it to the on side
22.3
Laughlin to Kamran Akmal, FOUR, short and wide outside off and he cheekily upper cuts him past the vacant slip region, clever shot
22.4
Laughlin to Kamran Akmal, 1 run, pushed just wide of cover point for a single
22.5
Laughlin to Misbah-ul-Haq, no run, gets right behind the line and defends
22.6
Laughlin to Misbah-ul-Haq, no run, same result, he gets across and keeps it away, may have been the slower ball
End of over 23 (10 runs) Pakistan 113/3 (138 runs required from 27 overs, RR: 4.91, RRR: 5.11)
Misbah-ul-Haq 24* (15b 4x4) B Laughlin 4-0-23-0
Kamran Akmal 32* (36b 3x4) NM Hauritz 6-0-25-2
23.1
Hauritz to Kamran Akmal, FOUR, the confidence just grows! Flighted outside off, Akmal plays the reverse paddle and meets the ball on the full and puts it away wide of short third man
23.2
Hauritz to Kamran Akmal, no run, tossed up outside off, he gets well forward and defends
23.3
Hauritz to Kamran Akmal, 1 run, shuffles and works it wide of midwicket and sets off
23.4
Hauritz to Misbah-ul-Haq, no run, goes on the backfoot and defends it
23.5
Hauritz to Misbah-ul-Haq, FOUR, Misbah moves a touch across his stumps and gets a faint trickle to a delivery down the leg side and short fine leg gives up the chase
23.6
Hauritz to Misbah-ul-Haq, 1 run, gets across the stumps and works it with the turn to the on side
Umair: Pak should take the PowerPlay now. They have two guys that are striking it well, make full use of it now and get closer to the target, rather than wait till the end where you may have lost some wickets and got yourself into a hole again."
End of over 24 (10 runs) Pakistan 123/3 (128 runs required from 26 overs, RR: 5.12, RRR: 4.92)

Namak Halaal is an absolute joke of a poster by the way. I've been reading this thread for a week now and all he does is run away. I don't fully agree with Ironcat (Misbah is NOT a legend but he's way better than anybody else in the team including Umar Akmal as a batsman) but Namak Halaal is just an idiot

 

[iZeeshan]

Who cares whether he had a SR of 66 first and then higher later. In his 75 deliveries he did his job. It was to the rest of the team to do their job as well.


Hafeez scored at a lower SR than Misbah. If you wanna quote his example, then that means SR = meaningless.


Hello? Tendy played the same game. Same pitch. Probably tougher bowlers. He had the luxury of the poerplay and Sehwag batting on the other end + Gul's pies.


You are short-circuiting. YOU are the one using the SR argument. I am simply showing you the mirror that it's a useless argument as the MOTM also had the same SR.

1. You keep ignoring the fact that Misbah boosted his SR after the game was over

2. You keep ignoring the fact that Misbah was chasing and Tendu was battign first

3. You keep ignoring the fact that Misbah's tuk-tuk drove the RRR up, while Tendulkar opened the innings and tried to set a platform

4. You keep ignoring the fact that despire Misbah tuk-tuk-ing and trying to set the platform, he was unable to win Pakistan the game

5. You said the top order miserably failed, I said it didn't - Hafeez made a decent score while opening. Not a clinically amazing performance, but not miserable either

Stop reading the parts you want to read and responding to the ones you can to.

 

[pakistanalltheway]

Hah Bullet Drive you clearly didn't watch the match you're talking about

In the game v Australia (5th match 2009) Misbah STARTED off hitting, only after he got to 18 off 10 balls or something (against Hauritz) did Kamran Akmal get confidence and start playing well. Misbah STARTED out hitting and then became second fiddle when Kamran started to grow confidence. Then he finished tyhe game off with a few fours

Namak Halaal is an absolute joke of a poster by the way. I've been reading this thread for a week now and all he does is run away. I don't fully agree with Ironcat (Misbah is NOT a legend but he's way better than anybody else in the team including Umar Akmal as a batsman) but Namak Halaal is just an idiot

No need for personal remarks

 

[iZeeshan]

Sigh, sadly Ironcat can only stick to numbers and not look at the whole situation.

Now, when someone completely ignores the context of the game, what can one say to him?

 

[shahrukh619]

There you have it. Shahrukh said that Misbah played for records and played the way he did in Mohali for his 2000th run. Also Ironcat bets against Misbah despite showing immense love for him.

Tons of course matter. Tons win you games. Misbah don't win you games. 2 MOTM in 102 games proves how much games Misbah has won for Pakistan. & yes Misbah is consistent, consistent at losing us high pressure games and bottling it at the wrong time.

& please take a look at the batting positions Afridi bats. He either opens or bats low down the order. When bats low down the order he has to come into slog and its the last few overs. + also Afridi has 34 man of the match performances. This shows that he's a match winner despite having a 23 batting average. Remember he also has 300+ ODI wickets.

Man of the matches is poor way to judge how many games a player has won..

really, you are going to use the MOMS to judge how good a player is?

 

[shahrukh619]

Hah Bullet Drive you clearly didn't watch the match you're talking about

In the game v Australia (5th match 2009) Misbah STARTED off hitting, only after he got to 18 off 10 balls or something (against Hauritz) did Kamran Akmal get confidence and start playing well. Misbah STARTED out hitting and then became second fiddle when Kamran started to grow confidence. Then he finished tyhe game off with a few fours

You can check the Cricinfo commentary. Pakistan were 56 for 3 in 16 overs and Misbah started hitting before Kamran joined in in a superb partnership

http://www.espncricinfo.com/pakvaus2009/engine/match/392620.html?innings=2;page=1;view=commentary



Namak Halaal is an absolute joke of a poster by the way. I've been reading this thread for a week now and all he does is run away. I don't fully agree with Ironcat (Misbah is NOT a legend but he's way better than anybody else in the team including Umar Akmal as a batsman) but Namak Halaal is just an idiot

come on bro, no insults, we shouldn't go down to their level... Be cool and calm, jsut like us

 

[Ironcat]

Ironcat, I said testing conditions. Those conditions weren't really testing. Cook & Trott both scored 70+ scores that game. All Pakistan batsman got starts and failed to convert. That shows the pitch was a good batting pitch. Just batsman failed to apply them selves.

Err, testing conditions = we chased down 300+ totals. We had no other history of such feats. ANd if you mean to say that testing batting conditions = England and SA, then Misbah hasn't played there yet. So, it's a moot point.

& those two ODI knocks, yet again Misbah playing second fiddle. That's all he can do. He never takes charge and goes for the charge him self. Both time he's done well were when someone was aggressive at the other end.

Now that your bluff has been busted, you now resort to moving the goal posts. Bravo.

& your saying Ajmal improved under Misbah because of the captain helping Ajmal improve. Why hasn't captain fantastic helped Umar improve then?

Umar Gul without Misbah the captain: 31 tests, 108 wickets at 34.5 ave
Umar Gul with Misbah the captain: 14 tests, 50 wickets at 31.8 ave

You sure you want to keep getting schooled?

 

[Ayyubjavvs]

No need for personal remarks

Seeing how Namak Halaal has been dealing with personal remarks the whole thread I don't see why not @pakistanalltheway. First he asks for an Imran example, then when he gets it he changes the topic. Before SL aborted the chase he said that they'd go for it, then when they didn't he said they were bottlers. Jayawardene and Sangakkara are a lot off things but NOT bottlers

 

[Bullet Drive]

Err, testing conditions = we chased down 300+ totals. We had no other history of such feats. ANd if you mean to say that testing batting conditions = England and SA, then Misbah hasn't played there yet. So, it's a moot point.


Now that your bluff has been busted, you now resort to moving the goal posts. Bravo.


Umar Gul without Misbah the captain: 31 tests, 108 wickets at 34.5 ave
Umar Gul with Misbah the captain: 14 tests, 50 wickets at 31.8 ave

You sure you want to keep getting schooled?

That's why I say the tour of SA will be Misbah's biggest challenge yet you keep insisting that playing England in UAE is his biggest challenge.

Also haha, you know which Umar I'm talking about. I'm talking about Umar Akmal.

 

[shahrukh619]

Seeing how Namak Halaal has been dealing with personal remarks the whole thread I don't see why not @pakistanalltheway. First he asks for an Imran example, then when he gets it he changes the topic. Before SL aborted the chase he said that they'd go for it, then when they didn't he said they were bottlers. Jayawardene and Sangakkara are a lot off things but NOT bottlers

Yup. Hes a big hypocrite! When ever some proves him wrong, he starts name calling and tries to change the topic as fast as he could

 

[Ironcat]

1. You keep ignoring the fact that Misbah boosted his SR after the game was over

Game was over? Game was over because others didn't contribute. In his 75 deliveries, he matched the MOTM's performance.

2. You keep ignoring the fact that Misbah was chasing and Tendu was battign first

Yes, Tendy had it easy. Misbah had it tougher. Remember we don't chase well.

3. You keep ignoring the fact that Misbah's tuk-tuk drove the RRR up, while Tendulkar opened the innings and tried to set a platform

Tendy's team mates were left with no choice. Misbah's team mates had a choice to play on their own terms till he came on to bat.

4. You keep ignoring the fact that despire Misbah tuk-tuk-ing and trying to set the platform, he was unable to win Pakistan the game

It was not Misbah vs India. It was Pakistan vs India.

5. You said the top order miserably failed, I said it didn't - Hafeez made a decent score while opening. Not a clinically amazing performance, but not miserable either

It is YOU who is saying that Misbah had the worst performance. Based on that criterion, Hafeez's was miserably worse.

Stop reading the parts you want to read and responding to the ones you can to.

I have responded to every part of your posts that is worth responding to.

 

[Bullet Drive]

Yup. Hes a big hypocrite! When ever some proves him wrong, he starts name calling and tries to change the topic as fast as he could

Not really. Your completely wrong. That's what Ironkitty has been doing all along. Namak has 'schooled' Ironcat many times. Ironcat now is defending his ego, not his love(Misbah).

 

[shahrukh619]

Not really. Your completely wrong. That's what Ironkitty has been doing all along. Namak has 'schooled' Ironcat many times. Ironcat now is defending his ego, not his love(Misbah).

really i don't understand how does name calling makes you prove your point? This Miscows, Misbots you guys started.... How does it prove you're point?

 

[Ironcat]

I don't fully agree with Ironcat (Misbah is NOT a legend but he's way better than anybody else in the team including Umar Akmal as a batsman) but Namak Halaal is just an idiot

Just for the record, I have never said that Misbah is a legend.

He is a great captain, esp. in tests, and a very good batsman all around.

He had a poor game in Mohali, but there were much poorer performances than his.

 

[Bullet Drive]

really i don't understand how does name calling makes you prove your point? This Miscows, Misbots you guys started.... How does it prove you're point?

lol where have I said it will prove my point? & ask Ironcat. He's in love with the term 'Miscows'. Check the last few pages. Its written all over by him

 

[Ironcat]

That's why I say the tour of SA will be Misbah's biggest challenge yet you keep insisting that playing England in UAE is his biggest challenge.

Err, we are talking about his captaincy when it comes to the SA series. Check the title of this thread You want to keep changing the goal post, then that's YOUR problem. Not ours.

Also haha, you know which Umar I'm talking about. I'm talking about Umar Akmal.

Oh, Umar Akmal. He isn't a test quality batsman. He had regressed well before Misbah took over the captaincy. His plight is beyond any repair by a captain.

 

[Bullet Drive]

Just for the record, I have never said that Misbah is a legend.

He is a great captain, esp. in tests, and a very good batsman all around.

He had a poor game in Mohali, but there were much poorer performances than his.

He is a poor captain & now you say he had a poor game. You just said this 'In his 75 deliveries, he matched the MOTM's performance.' If he matched the MOTM surely he should have had a good game?

 

[shahrukh619]

lol where have I said it will prove my point? & ask Ironcat. He's in love with the term 'Miscows'. Check the last few pages. Its written all over by him

who started it first? Namak Halal, and then i don't know why, that James guy(a former mod) jumps in and starts name caliing aswell.

 

[Ironcat]

Not really. Your completely wrong. That's what Ironkitty has been doing all along. Namak has 'schooled' Ironcat many times. Ironcat now is defending his ego, not his love(Misbah).

I am sure you can quote us a discussion or a post here where Namak has schooled anyone. Let alone me.

There, I called your bluff.

 

[Ayyubjavvs]

Not really. Your completely wrong. That's what Ironkitty has been doing all along. Namak has 'schooled' Ironcat many times. Ironcat now is defending his ego, not his love(Misbah).

Hah it is opposite my friend, Ironcat keeps giving examples and Namak kkeeps responding with cheap shots.

Why don't u respond to the example I gave, in 2009 both of the two matches we won against Aussies Misbah made a big contribution

 

[Ironcat]

He is a poor captain & now you say he had a poor game.

A W-L ratio of 9-1 is a pie in your face.

You have been schooled on this page alone at least three times.

You just said this 'In his 75 deliveries, he matched the MOTM's performance.' If he matched the MOTM surely he should have had a good game?

Nope, it would have been a good game if the team had won. His performance was better than everyone else's but still not good enough to win the game. Which is why it was still poor.

 

[Namak_Halaal]

Wrong.

Ajmal's average in his first series 30.

In his second 58.

In his third 112.

Clearly, playing more is irrelevant if you don't have the proper help.

Playing under a great captain and a coach made all the difference to him.

Ajmal wasn't born with 23.51 figures. It takes time for a bowler to develop and those extra Test matches played under Misbah DO MATTER because they count as experience for Ajmal. So Ajmal's progression is a natural trend for great bowlers. No miracle hand.

Misbah got lucky with the captaincy. This is the truth.

 

[Namak_Halaal]

& your saying Ajmal improved under Misbah because of the captain helping Ajmal improve. Why hasn't captain fantastic helped Umar improve then?

Game, Set, and Match.