The Misbah-ul-Haq Captaincy Analysis Thread

[DeadlyVenom]

By the way, why is Ironcat's measuring a 5 year period? Someone remind Ironcat how long Misbah has been ODI and Test captain.

Tsk Tsk.

Another fail to add to the growing list......

 

[Namak_Halaal]

I am talking about Misbah's ODI captaincy. Anyone know what Ironcat is bleating on about?

 

[DeadlyVenom]

I am talking about Misbah's ODI captaincy. Anyone know what Ironcat is bleating on about?

Then why mention test captaincy?

By the way, why is Ironcat's measuring a 5 year period? Someone remind Ironcat how long Misbah has been ODI and Test captain.

Tsk Tsk.

Sent from my X10i using Tapatalk

 

[Ironcat]

Then why mention test captaincy?

GG = PWNED by DV again

 

[DeadlyVenom]

GG = PWNED by DV again

He pwns himself. Contradicts himself within minutes.

Not his fault though hes not mentally stable.

 

[Namak_Halaal]

IN THE LAST FIVE YEARS IN ODIS

Pakistan's ODI captains:

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...anval1=span;team=7;template=results;type=team


In the last five years, Afridi has been our #4 test captain, #1 or #3 ODI captain, a non-existent test bowler, and #11 ODI bowler.

There you go folks, according to the Stats Afridi is the #1 ODI captain in the past 5 years.

Remember this is based on Ironcat's stats above.

It's not Ironcat's night.

The pain.

 

[Namak_Halaal]

Last time I checked Misbah was captain of Test and ODI.

Misbots terrified of discussing ODIs it seems.

 

[Ironcat]

There you go folks, according to the Stats Afridi is the #1 ODI captain in the past 5 years.

Remember this is based on Ironcat's stats above.

It's not Ironcat's night.

The pain.

Look at the plight of the Miscows. Taking pleasure in having a captain who can't even win us more games than he can lose.

The height of desperation.

 

[Ironcat]

Last time I checked Misbah was captain of Test and ODI.

Misbots terrified of discussing ODIs it seems.

Why are Miscows only discussing the ODIs? How about T20s?

 

[Ironcat]

Look at the plight of the Miscows. Taking pleasure in having a captain who can't even win us more games than he can lose.

The height of desperation.

And to add, defeatism.

Their best captain can't even take a series.

Such pleasure in owning that captain.

 

[Namak_Halaal]

One is for sure, Misbah is not the best thing to happen to Pakistan ODI cricket in 5 years.

How times have changed.

PS: Credit to Ironcat for proving this point.

 

[Namak_Halaal]

Poor Misbots, desperate to stick with Tests.

 

[Ironcat]

One is for sure, Misbah is not the best thing to happen to Pakistan ODI cricket in 5 years.

How to spot a liar from a mile away.

Memory of pain being refreshed...

Pakistan's ODI batsmen:

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...al1=span;team=7;template=results;type=batting

Before the T20 kids start pulling out SR-sorted lists, here is the relative ranking on an AV*SR basis:

Misbah: AV*SR of 3197
Yousuf: AV*SR of 2807
U Akmal: AV*SR of 3031

 

[Namak_Halaal]

Twice tonight Ironcat has posted stats which disprove his claims.

The world must be ending.

 

[Namak_Halaal]

Now Ironcat shifts the goalposts from ODI captain W/L ratio to ODI batting average.

Wonderful.

 

[Ironcat]

Twice tonight Ironcat has posted stats which disprove his claims.

The world must be ending.

Like I said, how to spot a liar from a mile away.

So, let's see.

stats dont reveal quality or context

vs

I should remind readers of one important fact - the stats reveal the difference between quality and quantity.

So, if you put 2 and 2 together, what he means to say is, as stats don't reveal quality, but they reveal difference between quality and quantity, they must reveal only quantity.

So, when he goes on to post those multiple charts of stats, he assures us that he is providing an example of quantity over quality. Well done, Miscows!

 

[Ironcat]

Now Ironcat shifts the goalposts from ODI captain W/L ratio to ODI batting average.

Wonderful.

I spot an epic surrender.

 

[Namak_Halaal]

Ironcat now refuting his own stats. This is epic.

Ironcat Yorked twice with his own stats. The odds I wonder? Hmmmm.

 

[Ironcat]

Twice tonight Ironcat has posted stats which disprove his claims.

The world must be ending.

What the first day of fasting can do to your mind.

 

[Shaheerthe2nd]

Even with that average of 43 we are still a poor ODI side!

I think Misbah should bat at #3 so that his job would be to bat through the innings!

 

[Ironcat]

Ironcat now refuting his own stats. This is epic.

Ironcat Yorked twice with his own stats. The odds I wonder? Hmmmm.

Eat the biryani in the morning tomorrow. Recommended treatment for the effects of the first day of fasting.

 

[Ironcat]

Even with that average of 43 we are still a poor ODI side!

I think Misbah should bat at #3 so that his job would be to bat through the innings!

We are a poor ODI side because there are too many free riders in the team. For every player who averages 43, there is an Afridi or Sarfaraz or K Akmal.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Ding Ding Ding we have another contradiction. Namak is breaking all records today

I am not discrediting MAH's efforts but it's a team effort. I am however challenging the notion MAH is not only the best thing to happen to Pakistan cricket in 5 years, but MAH is also the saviour of Pakistan cricket.

We will first break the above post into two parts.

I am not discrediting MAH's efforts but it's a team effort.

Well there you go. I guess your Misbah had nothing to do with the England victory has been debunked by yourself.

part 2.

Namaks original position

I am however challenging the notion MAH is not only the best thing to happen to Pakistan cricket in 5 years,

Misbah is not the best thing to happen to Pakistan ODI cricket in 5 years.

See how the word ODI was added to suit his agenda

The First time he mentioned all cricket. When stats are presented the word ODI magically appears.

Stats show Misbah as being the best test captain, second best odi captain and best Odi batsman.

Better than all others in 2/3 categories

There you go Namak.

Also averages > 50 with the bat in tests.....

 

[Namak_Halaal]

I wonder, why, if ODI W/L captaincy stats do not matter did Ironcat cite them?

Maybe he forget his preformatted post links to a dynamic table.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

I wonder, why, if ODI W/L captaincy stats do not matter did Ironcat cite them?

Maybe he forget his preformatted post links to a dynamic table.

They didnt matter to you before either....I wonder why you chose to zoom in on the ODI stats and neglect the test stats.

hmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

[iZeeshan]

Ironcat, how about we take YOUR counter of how many times you repeated yourself and just took jibs instead of actually making a point. (I said this before too but you ignored it)

Also, I schooled Shahrukh with his own quotes, which is evidence, so I'm afraid your counter will have to restart (also said this before, but you ignored it)

Regardless, I'm yet to receive a response from Shahrukh and Ironcat

 

[Ironcat]

Looks like the Cow School is already having its effects on Miscows. Schooled in debate, the Miscows now don't want to type anything more than a few words in their posts outside of this thread.

The only three posts cricket outside of this thread today:

Thanks!

Nevermind!

It will be a dream come true.

The fear of getting PWNED. The fear of someone showing them the mirror from this thread. The fear of someone exposing them.

Ooh. The impending demise of the cows. Will a dark one rise again?

 

[iZeeshan]

It's a bit rich that you talk about fear of getting pwned as that is evidently greatest in you.

Poor guy knows he's so wrong that he can't answer a simple question. That's why he keeps avoiding it. In fact Ironcat, you didn't even acknowledge it until the 7th time.

 

[iZeeshan]

And Shahrukh ran away after not responding to my post 11 times

 

[Ironcat]

Ironcat, how about we take YOUR counter of how many times you repeated yourself and just took jibs instead of actually making a point. (I said this before too but you ignored it)

Counter of my what?

We are counting your posts to see how many times you have begged others to help you make a point.

Also, I schooled Shahrukh with his own quotes, which is evidence, so I'm afraid your counter will have to restart (also said this before, but you ignored it)

Regardless, I'm yet to receive a response from Shahrukh and Ironcat

The counter is now at 24.

There is only one way to reset the counter, which is to make your point without begging others for help.

Tell us. Can you make your point without our help or not?

 

[iZeeshan]

Oh and Ironcat. Why do you beg N_H to respond to your posts when he avoids them? Does that mean you can't make any points yourself? To your logic, yes sir!

 

[Ironcat]

It's a bit rich that you talk about fear of getting pwned as that is evidently greatest in you.

Poor guy knows he's so wrong that he can't answer a simple question. That's why he keeps avoiding it. In fact Ironcat, you didn't even acknowledge it until the 7th time.

Counter is at 25.

5 more to go before you start "imploring" for help to make a point.

 

[iZeeshan]

Counter of my what?

We are counting your posts to see how many times you have begged others to help you make a point.


The counter is now at 24.

There is only one way to reset the counter, which is to make your point without begging others for help.

Tell us. Can you make your point without our help or not?

Your counter of you constantly repeating yourself instead of answer the question.

What kind of an idiotic statement is this. You're just avoiding getting schooled by saying that I can't make a point without help. It's not help, it's you facilitating the debate.

The only ones that make "no comments" to debates are ones that know that they're wrong.

 

[iZeeshan]

Counter is at 25.

5 more to go before you start "imploring" for help to make a point.

Ironcat repeating himself again.

Counter is at 17.

 

[Ironcat]

Oh and Ironcat. Why do you beg N_H to respond to your posts when he avoids them? Does that mean you can't make any points yourself? To your logic, yes sir!

Where have I begged him to make my own point? Begging is when you ask for something 25 times in a row.

 

[Namak_Halaal]

Ironcat needs a hug from his minions.

 

[iZeeshan]

Where have I begged him to make my own point? Begging is when you ask for something 25 times in a row.

You ask him to respond to you when he avoids your posts/questions.

Same as what I'm doing.

Ironcat, if you are so correct in your analysis, why do you have a problem in answering my question?

You keep stating that in my 28k posts I have never provided stats, yet you fail to understand that there's a reason for that. And it's because it's not just STATS that matter.

Not to mention you should reset your counter because I provided plenty of evidence for Shahrukh to school him, i.e. quoting him himself.

 

[Ironcat]

Your counter of you constantly repeating yourself instead of answer the question.

What kind of an idiotic statement is this. You're just avoiding getting schooled by saying that I can't make a point without help. It's not help, it's you facilitating the debate.

The only ones that make "no comments" to debates are ones that know that they're wrong.

Like I said, if you can't make a point without our help, we can reset the counter.

There is no proof so far that you can make a point on your own.

 

[Ironcat]

You ask him to respond to you when he avoids your posts/questions.

Same as what I'm doing.

I don't rely on him to make a point. I school him with his own lies. If he doesn''t respond, it means I have made my point.

Ironcat, if you are so correct in your analysis, why do you have a problem in answering my question?

You keep stating that in my 28k posts I have never provided stats, yet you fail to understand that there's a reason for that. And it's because it's not just STATS that matter.

Not to mention you should reset your counter because I provided plenty of evidence for Shahrukh to school him, i.e. quoting him himself.

Well, you are being put on the spot in front of everyone. This is your chance to prove to all that you can make a point without my help. Otherwise, admit it that you need my help in making your points.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Ironcat needs a hug from his minions.

Hello Cinderella its midnight and you are still at the ball.

Ramadan has begun and you are still here!

tsk tsk

shamelessly lying again and using religion in your lie

what a disgrace.

 

[Namak_Halaal]

Ironcat, if you are so correct in your analysis, why do you have a problem in answering my question?

Ironcat is superb in his analysis - do not doubt him.

In a matter of minutes he has proved Afridi has the highest W/L in ODIs in the past 5 years, making him #1 ODI captain, while Misbah is 3rd, behind Shoaib Malik.

He has also proved Umar Akmal's SR decreased under Misbah's guidance and influence.

Awesome work (keep it up).

 

[iZeeshan]

I don't rely on him to make a point. I school him with his own lies. If he doesn''t respond, it means I have made my point.


Well, you are being put on the spot in front of everyone. This is your chance to prove to all that you can make a point without my help. Otherwise, admit it that you need my help in making your points.

I'm so glad you said that.

I rest my case.

 

[Ironcat]

Ironcat is superb in his analysis - do not doubt him.

In a matter of minutes he has proved Afridi has the highest W/L in ODIs in the past 5 years, making him #1 ODI captain, while Misbah is 3rd, behind Shoaib Malik.

He has also proved Umar Akmal's SR decreased under Misbah's guidance and influence.

Awesome work (keep it up).

What the first day of fasting can do to your mind.

Eat the biryani in the morning tomorrow. Recommended treatment for this syndrome.

 

[iZeeshan]

Make a point about what? How am I just going to randomly make a point in this thread?

Misbah is a decent, not horrible or bad, but not brilliant, or great test captain. His W/L (Whatever it is, it's still a stat and has been discussed numerous times). Although the W/L ratio is brilliant, it does include wins against Zimbabwe and Bangladesh so it's quite inflated. However, he also has a series drawn against South Africa (on flat pitches though), whitewash against England, and a super win against Sri Lanka. All in all ,a decent, average captain.


There I made a point and used evidence. Are we done with your crap now?

 

[Ironcat]

I'm so glad you said that.

I rest my case.

Well, we'll see for how long before your cassette of "answer me" restarts.

 

[iZeeshan]

Well, we'll see for how long before your cassette of "answer me" restarts.

Well now that you recognize non-responsiveness = I proved my point, that means you agree that there's a lot more to stats than they just show. It's not just about the numbers, but the situation as well.

You can't even deny it now.

 

[Namak_Halaal]

Ironcat cannot deny squat. He's too busy trying to explain the CONTEXT of Misbah's shambolic ODI captaincy.

 

[Ironcat]

Make a point about what? How am I just going to randomly make a point in this thread?

Misbah is a decent, not horrible or bad, but not brilliant, or great test captain. His W/L (Whatever it is, it's still a stat and has been discussed numerous times). Although the W/L ratio is brilliant, it does include wins against Zimbabwe and Bangladesh so it's quite inflated. However, he also has a series drawn against South Africa (on flat pitches though), whitewash against England, and a super win against Sri Lanka. All in all ,a decent, average captain.


There I made a point and used evidence. Are we done with your crap now?

This post tells me you don't read much.

He has a 6.0 W/L against teams excluding BD and Zimbos.

So, you take your theory of "stats don't matter" and paste them on your wall - because you have absolutely no evidence to support your straw man argument.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Ironcat cannot deny squat. He's too busy trying to explain the CONTEXT of Misbah's shambolic ODI captaincy.

Ramadan has begun.

Or has the definition of 'now' changed again.

 

[Ironcat]

Ironcat cannot deny squat. He's too busy trying to explain the CONTEXT of Misbah's shambolic ODI captaincy.

What these 28 pages have proven is that this guy can use a treatment to ADD:

 

[iZeeshan]

This post tells me you don't read much.

He has a 6.0 W/L against teams excluding BD and Zimbos.

So, you take your theory of "stats don't matter" and paste them on your wall - because you have absolutely no evidence to support your straw man argument.

So you want me to call him a legendary captain based on a 6 W/L ratio 2 years?

Weren't you the one that you believe in large sample sizes? Sure to be a great, you have to be captaining for over 5-6 years?

Also, don't put words in my mouth Ironcat. I never said stats don't matter. I said that the situation is equally important.

 

[Ironcat]

Well now that you recognize non-responsiveness = I proved my point, that means you agree that there's a lot more to stats than they just show. It's not just about the numbers, but the situation as well.

You can't even deny it now.

The only thing you have proved is that you can't make a point without any help.

 

[Ironcat]

So you want me to call him a legendary captain based on a 6 W/L ratio 2 years?

A legendary captain? Is there anything between legends and decent in your dictionary?

Care to show us another captain with that W/L over two years against non-BD/Zimbos?

Oh, wait, you will need help for that.

Weren't you the one that you believe in large sample sizes? Sure to be a great, you have to be captaining for over 5-6 years?

17 tests is large enough sample size. More than any other captain in our cricket over the last 5 years.

Also, don't put words in my mouth Ironcat. I never said stats don't matter. I said that the situation is equally important.

All that situation is captured in the results on the field. If you feel situation tells another story, then prove it. Don't ask others to help you make a point.

 

[Ironcat]

DV, good job with the schooling.

Looks like the Cow School is already having its effects on Miscows. Schooled in debate, the Miscows now don't want to type anything more than a few words in their posts outside of this thread.

The only three posts cricket outside of this thread today:

Thanks!

Nevermind!

It will be a dream come true.

The fear of getting PWNED. The fear of someone showing them the mirror from this thread. The fear of someone exposing them.

Ooh. The demise. Will a dark cow rise?

 

[VTEC]

Ironcat handing out some serious pwnage

 

[Namak_Halaal]

The High Five crew has arrived.

 

[iZeeshan]

A legendary captain? Is there anything between legends and decent in your dictionary?

Care to show us another captain with that W/L over two years against non-BD/Zimbos?

Oh, wait, you will need help for that.


17 tests is large enough sample size. More than any other captain in our cricket over the last 5 years.


All that situation is captured in the results on the field. If you feel situation tells another story, then prove it. Don't ask others to help you make a point.

Misbah may have done better than captains in previous years but that, by no means, makes him a great or a legendary captain.

How the hell am I supposed to prove something that goes on on the field? Not only that, but you have to look at the game situation itself also. Not to mention the opposition, what's happened before and after the games (i.e. the whole spot fixing debate we had).

It's not just cut and dry stats.

That being said, Misbah has been a good test captain. Azhar Ali and Asad Shafiq have flourished under his watch and Ajmal has performed better.

However, Misbah failed to help Umar Gul (our spearhead) become a better bowler, nor was he able to turn one of our best talents in years into a great batsman.

If we're going to give credit to Misbah for helping Ajmal, then we also have to understand where his faults were. Yes I know Gul's average improved under Misbah but he's still the same, hot and cold, crap bowler he was before and after.

I don't know what else you want from me. With regards to Misbah in tests, that's my honest assessment, and I don't see why you have to fight me further on it.

You might think of him more highly, but I don't.

P.S. this post as actually more directed to DV, as I'd like to know what he thinks about my opinion there. Ironcat is a fart who just keeps repeating himself. I keep trying my best to ignore him, but he just boils my blood sometimes. Right over the internet. How pathetic of me, I know.

 

[iZeeshan]

Ironcat handing out some serious pwnage

...have you even read the thread? He gets pwned so many times it's not even funny.

The sad thing is that the Misbah supporters will come on and say that Ironcat is the best poster ever. And the ones that don't like Misbah will do the opposite.

So unless they post their own views or participate in the ongoing discussion, their high-fives are worthless.

Each 'team' has gotten an equal amount of support from outsiders because they simply share the same opinion and can't see past the bias.

I don't consider myself to be a hater at all as I've given Misbah fair credit and criticism IMO and I think a lot of people would support that.

 

[VTEC]

The High Five crew has arrived.

So last decade the High Five

 

[Ironcat]

Misbah may have done better than captains in previous years but that, by no means, makes him a great or a legendary captain.

So, who today is a very good or a great captain? Because none of the current lot (across countries) has a W/L higher than him.

How the hell am I supposed to prove something that goes on on the field? Not only that, but you have to look at the game situation itself also. Not to mention the opposition, what's happened before and after the games (i.e. the whole spot fixing debate we had).

It's not just cut and dry stats.

My advice to you. If you can't prove something, don't drag it into an argument. Because you will get schooled. If there is no basis for proving something correct or incorrect, there is no basis for arguing about it.

That being said, Misbah has been a good test captain. Azhar Ali and Asad Shafiq have flourished under his watch and Ajmal has performed better.

However, Misbah failed to help Umar Gul (our spearhead) become a better bowler, nor was he able to turn one of our best talents in years into a great batsman.

If we're going to give credit to Misbah for helping Ajmal, then we also have to understand where his faults were. Yes I know Gul's average improved under Misbah but he's still the same, hot and cold, crap bowler he was before and after.

If his average improved, then he became a better bowler. Not every player in the team is going to become a star. This is what Misbah has done to the team:

I don't know what else you want from me. With regards to Misbah in tests, that's my honest assessment, and I don't see why you have to fight me further on it.

You might think of him more highly, but I don't.

No one is going to stop you from thinking what you think. But if you can provide evidence of what you are saying here, then we can take you more seriously. Don't fault us for that.

 

[Ironcat]

...have you even read the thread? He gets pwned so many times it's not even funny.

The sad thing is that the Misbah supporters will come on and say that Ironcat is the best poster ever. And the ones that don't like Misbah will do the opposite.

So unless they post their own views or participate in the ongoing discussion, their high-fives are worthless.

Each 'team' has gotten an equal amount of support from outsiders because they simply share the same opinion and can't see past the bias.

I don't consider myself to be a hater at all as I've given Misbah fair credit and criticism IMO and I think a lot of people would support that.

The difference is we back our claims with evidence.

You guys just post hateful opinions.

Hence, the difference in perception.

 

[iZeeshan]

The difference is we back our claims with evidence.

You guys just post hateful opinions.

Hence, the difference in perception.

How am I posting a hateful opinion just because I don't consider Misbah the best thing in 5 years?

Yes I don't like Misbah, but I think I'm being fair in my assessment of him by giving him the credit he deserves.

I still just don't understand how you don't think that he walked into the team after the spot-fixing saga didn't help him at all.

Not everything is about proof or evidence Ironcat, there's some logic and common sense involved too.

 

[iZeeshan]

So, who today is a very good or a great captain? Because none of the current lot (across countries) has a W/L higher than him.


My advice to you. If you can't prove something, don't drag it into an argument. Because you will get schooled. If there is no basis for proving something correct or incorrect, there is no basis for arguing about it.


If his average improved, then he became a better bowler. Not every player in the team is going to become a star. This is what Misbah has done to the team:

No one is going to stop you from thinking what you think. But if you can provide evidence of what you are saying here, then we can take you more seriously. Don't fault us for that.

I don't care if you don't take me seriously. You are way too hostile about providing stats and evidence and it's not always about that.

Not everything can be proven with evidence - sometimes, you just have to think about it. If you don't agree, you don't agree. However, sometimes, you can try to understand where the other person might be coming from rather than just pushing your opinion every single time.

I don't think even once you've tried to see the other guy's opinion because it wasn't backed by a solid stat and I think that's where you're at fault.

Regardless, your stats are good in that post and I agree - not everyone will become a star and some will improve. I just don't think Misbah deserves that legend status which is reserved for IK, Clive Lloyd, etc (yes I know you never exactly equated him to that, just speaking in general here)

Ironcat, I have nothing more to say on the W/L ratio except that it's highly flawed because of the special circumstances revolving around Pakistan in the last two years and their opponents. But you're right, I can't prove it. But, IMO, any sensical man will be able to see where I'm coming from even though one might not agree.

The worst part is, I believe Misbah will retire before it becomes clear. I don't think the SA series will be a good measure unless Misbah wins (then I'll agree to give him a lot more credit). A draw will mean 'Misbots' being happy with the result (and why not, it's a good one) and a loss will mean 'Misbots' saying that no one (?) has ever led Pakistan to a win in SA.

Nevertheless I would be ecstatic for Misbah to lead us to a win in SA. It would truly solidify his status as one of Pakistan's better captains.

As for the ODI series, I'm hoping we do well but with Misbah as captain, I just don't think it will happen. But Ironcat doesn't care about ODIs other than championships anyway, so who cares.

 

[Ironcat]

How am I posting a hateful opinion just because I don't consider Misbah the best thing in 5 years?

Actually, you have agreed previously that he is the best thing to happen to our cricket in the last 5 years. Be it from the rule of elimination.

Yes I don't like Misbah, but I think I'm being fair in my assessment of him by giving him the credit he deserves.

I still just don't understand how you don't think that he walked into the team after the spot-fixing saga didn't help him at all.

Not everything is about proof or evidence Ironcat, there's some logic and common sense involved too.

Err, logic and common sense = proof. Problem is you have to still provide it.

Like I said, there is no evidence that spot fixing helped us post 6.0 W/L under Misbah in one format while we were still hardly 1.0 W/L under Afridi in the other format. The captain made the real difference in performance.

 

[iZeeshan]

Actually, you have agreed previously that he is the best thing to happen to our cricket in the last 5 years. Be it from the rule of elimination.


Err, logic and common sense = proof. Problem is you have to still provide it.

Like I said, there is no evidence that spot fixing helped us post 6.0 W/L under Misbah in one format while we were still hardly 1.0 W/L under Afridi in the other format. The captain made the real difference in performance.

I agree, I did say that. But I don't think it's saying much because I'm pretty sure I said as a player/captain he might be. But I still think that the spot-fixing saga was the best thing to happen to Pakistan cricket because it will have a much longer effect on us.

And now that Azhar Ali and Asad Shafiq have improved, they might be the best things to happen in the last 5 years as they have a lot more long-term potential. Can we give Misbah credit for that? Maybe. But it can't be proven.

As far as logic, common sense equalling proof, it's not my fault that common sense is beyond you.

 

[Namak_Halaal]

Wow. Discussing Misbah's ODI tenure is akin to hatred.

One cannot reason when dealing with such chronic levels of insecurity.

It's all beginning to make sense now.

 

[Ironcat]

I don't care if you don't take me seriously. You are way too hostile about providing stats and evidence and it's not always about that.

Not everything can be proven with evidence - sometimes, you just have to think about it. If you don't agree, you don't agree. However, sometimes, you can try to understand where the other person might be coming from rather than just pushing your opinion every single time.

I don't think even once you've tried to see the other guy's opinion because it wasn't backed by a solid stat and I think that's where you're at fault.

Regardless, your stats are good in that post and I agree - not everyone will become a star and some will improve. I just don't think Misbah deserves that legend status which is reserved for IK, Clive Lloyd, etc (yes I know you never exactly equated him to that, just speaking in general here)

Ironcat, I have nothing more to say on the W/L ratio except that it's highly flawed because of the special circumstances revolving around Pakistan in the last two years and their opponents. But you're right, I can't prove it. But, IMO, any sensical man will be able to see where I'm coming from even though one might not agree.

The worst part is, I believe Misbah will retire before it becomes clear. I don't think the SA series will be a good measure unless Misbah wins (then I'll agree to give him a lot more credit). A draw will mean 'Misbots' being happy with the result (and why not, it's a good one) and a loss will mean 'Misbots' saying that no one (?) has ever led Pakistan to a win in SA.

Nevertheless I would be ecstatic for Misbah to lead us to a win in SA. It would truly solidify his status as one of Pakistan's better captains.

As for the ODI series, I'm hoping we do well but with Misbah as captain, I just don't think it will happen. But Ironcat doesn't care about ODIs other than championships anyway, so who cares.

Oh, I'm always open to listeing, but the "common sense" still has to make sense. If there is evidence against an unproven statement, then you won't find much sympathy from me.

If you want to reserve your judgment about Misbah till after the SA series, then be my guest.

 

[Ironcat]

I agree, I did say that. But I don't think it's saying much because I'm pretty sure I said as a player/captain he might be. But I still think that the spot-fixing saga was the best thing to happen to Pakistan cricket because it will have a much longer effect on us.

And now that Azhar Ali and Asad Shafiq have improved, they might be the best things to happen in the last 5 years as they have a lot more long-term potential. Can we give Misbah credit for that? Maybe. But it can't be proven.

As far as logic, common sense equalling proof, it's not my fault that common sense is beyond you.

Like I said, if you can prove your spot fixing theory, then I will have sympathy for it. Otherwise, it's simply a smokescreen.

As for Azhar and Asad, Misbah had had a significant contribution in their development, and he still has performed better than them during the time the two have been in international cricket.

 

[Namak_Halaal]

4 Weeks ago "The best thing to happen to our cricket in the last 5 years" included Misbah's ODI W/L ratio. Today this attribute has vanished into thin air.

Remarkable.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

It's all beginning to make sense now.

What do you mean by now?

 

[Ironcat]

Acknowledgment of today's lessons by Miscows:

How times have changed

The world must be ending

Wonderful.

Awesome work (keep it up).

Wow.

....

It's all beginning to make sense now.

Remarkable.

Today's course has transformed them upside down.

Bravo.

 

[iZeeshan]

Oh, I'm always open to listeing, but the "common sense" still has to make sense. If there is evidence against an unproven statement, then you won't find much sympathy from me.

If you want to reserve your judgment about Misbah till after the SA series, then be my guest.

The common sense does make sense to me. Not you. Who's right?

Like I said, if you can prove your spot fixing theory, then I will have sympathy for it. Otherwise, it's simply a smokescreen.

As for Azhar and Asad, Misbah had had a significant contribution in their development, and he still has performed better than them during the time the two have been in international cricket.

You can't prove the spot fixing theory Ironcat. You don't have evidence against it either. Is it not common sense to think that the players would naturally be more fired up and committed to performing for their country after they had been humiliated? Is it not natural to think that the elimination of corrupt players in the squad improved the dressing room morale and pushed the team to perform better?

But they're also moving along in their careers. How can you say Misbah is the instrumental improvement part of their career? When Misbah took over, they were just establishing themselves. It's natural to say that they got better as they gained more experienced, not just that Misbah made them better.

It's not like you are looking at, let's say, Yousuf and Younus's development under Inzi. That would make sense because both batsmen were established and moved along under Inzi. I'm not sure if that's the right example of players, but you should get what I'm trying to say.

 

[Ironcat]

What do you mean by now?

 

[DeadlyVenom]

4 Weeks ago "The best thing to happen to our cricket in the last 5 years" included Misbah's ODI W/L ratio. Today this attribute has vanished into thin air.

Remarkable.

It is a a combination of test and odi results and performances.

Only you are focussing on ODIs.

 

[Ironcat]

You can't prove the spot fixing theory Ironcat. You don't have evidence against it either. Is it not common sense to think that the players would naturally be more fired up and committed to performing for their country after they had been humiliated? Is it not natural to think that the elimination of corrupt players in the squad improved the dressing room morale and pushed the team to perform better?

No, sherlock, when a team has problems, it disintegrates. Dies. Goes away.

Does NOT become world beaters. Get it through your mind.

The smokescreen of spot fixing has been proven by simply comparing Misbah's and Afridi's captaincy performances after the event. Why didn't Afridi give us a 6.0 W/L in the format he was captaining us in?

At least learn to count if you can't add or subtract.

But they're also moving along in their careers. How can you say Misbah is the instrumental improvement part of their career? When Misbah took over, they were just establishing themselves. It's natural to say that they got better as they gained more experienced, not just that Misbah made them better.

Ajmal disagrees with you. He has attributed his success to the captain. Why should we believe that there is another reason at work for Azhar and Asad? Look at Azhar's performance without Misbah the captain in the first SL test.

It's not like you are looking at, let's say, Yousuf and Younus's development under Inzi. That would make sense because both batsmen were established and moved along under Inzi. I'm not sure if that's the right example of players, but you should get what I'm trying to say.

Unless you provide some evidence of what you are saying, you are just needlessly arguing now.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

iZeeshan I have read your posts, I disagree with some parts, it is quite clear that you have abandoned the Namak_halal mode of thinking/arguing which is good.

A lot of your points are valid

 

[Namak_Halaal]

Strange. Misbots ignore Misbah's ODI W/L but still claim he's the best thing to happen to Pakistan cricket. How does this work? Do Tests only count? Rhetorical question meaning no need to answer it.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Your post has been debunked many times.

You have been exposed as a shameless liar who uses religious matters in his lies.

 

[Namak_Halaal]

I wonder why couldn't Misbah better Afridi's ODl W/L in the past 5 years despite playing Zimbabwe and Bangladesh?

One of life's many mysteries.

 

[Ironcat]

Strange. Misbots ignore Misbah's ODI W/L but still claim he's the best thing to happen to Pakistan cricket. How does this work? Do Tests only count? Rhetorical question meaning no need to answer it.

iZeeshan, here is a question for you. You agreed to Misbah being the best thing to happen to Pakistan cricket over the last 5 years - even as a player/captain. Taking into account both formats and capacities.

How would you respond to the post I have quoted above?