The Misbah-ul-Haq Captaincy Analysis Thread

[iZeeshan]

No, sherlock, when a team has problems, it disintegrates. Dies. Goes away.

Does NOT become world beaters. Get it through your mind.

The smokescreen of spot fixing has been proven by simply comparing Misbah's and Afridi's captaincy performances after the event. Why didn't Afridi give us a 6.0 W/L in the format he was captaining us in?

At least learn to count if you can't add or subtract.


Ajmal disagrees with you. He has attributed his success to the captain. Why should we believe that there is another reason at work for Azhar and Asad? Look at Azhar's performance without Misbah the captain in the first SL test.


Unless you provide some evidence of what you are saying, you are just needlessly arguing now.

Ironcat, it's impossible to use sense with you.

You can't compare ODIs and Tests. Different formats, different teams, different opponents! What kind of a joke is that.

If the spot fixing saga had no implication, then how did Afridi do so well after it? Took us to the semi finals of the world cup, despite us not getting there in the last TWO world cups! With very, very good teams!?

No need to be crude and questioning my math skills Ironcat. Your logic is so unbelievable flawed that you begin comparing ODIs and Tests.

Also your point about Azhar is stupid. Azhar also got out for ducks when Misbah was captain - what's the point? The fact is that Azhar has gradually improved as his career went on - no way to prove, unless he himself says it, that it was Misbah's doing. Players come into the side, show promise, and gradually improve and fall away. Not always up to the captain.

I just gave you an example of when that would work - it's not the case with Shafiq or Azhar. Also Shafiq did just fine in the first test without Misbah, I guess that means Misbah had no effect on him right?

 

[Namak_Halaal]

I rub my eyes in disbelief. Ironcat seeks help from the opposition even though it was a rhetorical question.

Bless.

 

[iZeeshan]

iZeeshan, here is a question for you. You agreed to Misbah being the best thing to happen to Pakistan cricket over the last 5 years - even as a player/captain. Taking into account both formats and capacities.

How would you respond to the post I have quoted above?

You know, if you were any other poster, I wouldn't mind giving you a response.

But because you have been so abusive towards me, I only have one thing to say to you,

"Why do you need someone's help proving a point, Ironcat."

Also, after the recent Sri Lanka series, I believe that Azhar Ali is the best thing to happen to Pakistan cricket in the last 5 years.

 

[Ironcat]

You can't compare ODIs and Tests. Different formats, different teams, different opponents! What kind of a joke is that.

Why can't I compare? Isn't there a captain in ODIs? Don't those 6-7 other teams play ODIs? Why should we be below par in ODIs and do so well in tests?

If the spot fixing saga had no implication, then how did Afridi do so well after it? Took us to the semi finals of the world cup, despite us not getting there in the last TWO world cups! With very, very good teams!?

Did so well? A W/L of 0.93. Didn't win any meaningful series. Crashed out of the world cup SF. Lost the Asia Cup. He showed us that winning is irrelevant - just play in the championship.

Also your point about Azhar is stupid. Azhar also got out for ducks when Misbah was captain - what's the point? The fact is that Azhar has gradually improved as his career went on - no way to prove, unless he himself says it, that it was Misbah's doing. Players come into the side, show promise, and gradually improve and fall away. Not always up to the captain.

The point is he averaged 56 under Misbah and 22 under others. Point is with Misbah captaining, he scored a 100 in each of the two tests but only ducks in the first test under Hafeez.

I just gave you an example of when that would work - it's not the case with Shafiq or Azhar. Also Shafiq did just fine in the first test without Misbah, I guess that means Misbah had no effect on him right?

Nope. He averages higher WITH Misbah as the captain.

 

[Ironcat]

You know, if you were any other poster, I wouldn't mind giving you a response.

But because you have been so abusive towards me, I only have one thing to say to you,

"Why do you need someone's help proving a point, Ironcat."

Also, after the recent Sri Lanka series, I believe that Azhar Ali is the best thing to happen to Pakistan cricket in the last 5 years.

Keep posting without any evidence. Another 27K, here we come.

 

[Namak_Halaal]

"Why do you need someone's help proving a point, Ironcat."

Also, after the recent Sri Lanka series, I believe that Azhar Ali is the best thing to happen to Pakistan cricket in the last 5 years.

Epic.

 

[Ironcat]

Another one added.

Acknowledgment of today's lessons by Miscows:

How times have changed

The world must be ending

Wonderful.

Awesome work (keep it up).

Wow.

....

It's all beginning to make sense now.

Remarkable.

I rub my eyes in disbelief.

Today's course has transformed them upside down.

Bravo.

 

[Ironcat]

Miscows' post size getting smaller and smaller.

Did we mix a new compound into the lessons today?

Down to one word now.

Next stop. Font size reduction.

 

[iZeeshan]

Wow Ironcat, you have some serious ego issues.

 

[iZeeshan]

Keep posting without any evidence. Another 27K, here we come.

Azhar Ali averages 45.

He's only 27. Will be a player for years to come.

Misbah will leave. Then what?

Also Ironcat, you're just mad that I owned you and didn't facilitate your discussion in helping you prove your point.

 

[Bullet Drive]

We must remember some pathetic selections Misbah has made too. Remember this must win game for Pakistan, he drops Saeed Ajmal.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/sri-lan...e/match/562443.html?innings=1;view=commentary

 

[iZeeshan]

Why can't I compare? Isn't there a captain in ODIs? Don't those 6-7 other teams play ODIs? Why should we be below par in ODIs and do so well in tests?


Did so well? A W/L of 0.93. Didn't win any meaningful series. Crashed out of the world cup SF. Lost the Asia Cup. He showed us that winning is irrelevant - just play in the championship.


The point is he averaged 56 under Misbah and 22 under others. Point is with Misbah captaining, he scored a 100 in each of the two tests but only ducks in the first test under Hafeez.


Nope. He averages higher WITH Misbah as the captain.

Man what is wrong with this guy.

You simply cannot compare formats. Will you compare two batsmen's averages in tests and ODIs?

I'm sorry, but didn't Afridi achieve a higher W/L than Misbah? WHy couldn't Misbah himself get 6.0 W/L in ODIs himself if it's the samething? Schooled.

Ironcat, do you read what I say? Are you denying that players don't get better simply with more experience? How can you prove that Misbah is the reason for him improving? Do you really want me to prove to you that players improve as they play more games?

And I meant ducks in general, before Hafeez was even captain.

It's so easy to school you now, it's almost hilarious.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Namak ridiculed Misbah for picking Malik (after the series)

Namaks view on Maliks inclusion at the time

I forgot to mention, Shoaib Malik could pull a rabbit of a hat here and prove his critics wrong.

Notice the term 'his critics', you would refer to them in that way if they were something seperate from you...i.e he is not a critic.

I wonder why he didnt question his inclusion then?

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Heres Namaks post from the second test regarding Misbah

Misbah is doing the right thing here.

Tuk Boom Boom Tuk Tuk Tuk

Cricket Morse Code.

He is saying Tuk is the right thing and saying Misbah is playing well.

 

[iZeeshan]

Keep posting without any evidence. Another 27K, here we come.

Miscows' post size getting smaller and smaller.

Did we mix a new compound into the lessons today?

Down to one word now.

Next stop. Font size reduction.

Another one added.

Acknowledgment of today's lessons by Miscows:


Today's course has transformed them upside down.

Bravo.

I think I'm gonna start a counter for all your useless posts.

3.

 

[Ironcat]

Wow Ironcat, you have some serious ego issues.

Yet, it's you who, on a daily basis, jumps into the middle of an argument, gets schooled, puts his hands up OR says "you have ego issues", and then repeats the process every day.

 

[iZeeshan]

Yet, it's you who, on a daily basis, jumps into the middle of an argument, gets schooled, puts his hands up OR says "you have ego issues", and then repeats the process every day.

And you just keep repeating yourself everyday

 

[Ironcat]

Azhar Ali averages 45.

He's only 27. Will be a player for years to come.

Misbah will leave. Then what?

Azhar averages less than Misbah. Azhar knows nothing about captaincy. Azhar has only now entered the ODI team. He didn't exist in our team until about 2 years ago. Yes, of course, he is the best thing to happen to our cricket.

And when Misbah leaves for a game, Azhar has two ducks.

Azhar has a great future ahead of him and will become a candidate for the best thing in last 5 years in the next 2-3 years. Right now, he is learning.

Also Ironcat, you're just mad that I owned you and didn't facilitate your discussion in helping you prove your point.

Err, I don't beg others 25 times a day to help me make a point. YOU do.

 

[iZeeshan]

Azhar averages less than Misbah. Azhar knows nothing about captaincy. Azhar has only now entered the ODI team. He didn't exist in our team until about 2 years ago. Yes, of course, he is the best thing to happen to our cricket.

And when Misbah leaves for a game, Azhar has two ducks.

Azhar has a great future ahead of him and will become a candidate for the best thing in last 5 years in the next 2-3 years. Right now, he is learning.


Err, I don't beg others 25 times a day to help me make a point. YOU do.

) What a joke. Azhar "happened" around the same time as Misbah (before him even). In the next 2-3 years, Azhar won't be something "happening" anymore. He will be in the squad already.

It's funny that you say Azhar was unknown 2 years ago. I mean, Misbah came out of nowhere to be captain, didn't he? It's virtually the same thing.

Oh I'm sorry, who just asked me to answer a question for him? Oh that's right! It was the Great Ghaddar himself!

Wow, I enjoyed writing this post

 

[iZeeshan]

I find it funny that when Ironcat can't prove a point or answer something, it counts as me begging him to answer me so I can make a point.

However, he himself admitted that if someone doesn't respond to him, then he's made his point.

I think it's only fair that Ironcat applies this logic to himself as well? Anyone, anyone?

 

[Ironcat]

Man what is wrong with this guy.

You simply cannot compare formats. Will you compare two batsmen's averages in tests and ODIs?

Umm, a batsman who has a high average in tests should also have a high average in ODIs. A good batsman is a good batsman. Not a test batsman or an ODI batsmen. And if a batsman isn't good in ODIs (like Younis), then it's his issue. Not an issue of comparison.

I'm sorry, but didn't Afridi achieve a higher W/L than Misbah? WHy couldn't Misbah himself get 6.0 W/L in ODIs himself if it's the samething?

Misbah's ODI comparison is irrelevant because he didn't take over ODI captaincy after spot fixing. Afridi did. Once Misbah has captained in the same number of games that Afridi has, then you can compare their ODI captaincy.

So, spot fixing has had a squat role in our team's success.

Ironcat, do you read what I say? Are you denying that players don't get better simply with more experience? How can you prove that Misbah is the reason for him improving? Do you really want me to prove to you that players improve as they play more games?

Oh, they do get better if there is someone available to help them learn and get better. But when 9 out of your 11 players get better, that means the common element, the captain, has been of big help.

And I meant ducks in general, before Hafeez was even captain.

He never had a pair under Misbah.

 

[Ironcat]

) What a joke. Azhar "happened" around the same time as Misbah (before him even). In the next 2-3 years, Azhar won't be something "happening" anymore. He will be in the squad already.

Now, you have resorted to your conventional technique.

Lying.

Misbah has been playing for us in the last 5 years. Azhar has only played in the last two years.

It's funny that you say Azhar was unknown 2 years ago. I mean, Misbah came out of nowhere to be captain, didn't he? It's virtually the same thing.

Err, more lying.

Misbah played the Aussie series earlier in the same year that he became the captain.

Oh I'm sorry, who just asked me to answer a question for him? Oh that's right! It was the Great Ghaddar himself!

Learn to quote part of a post you are responding to. Otherwise, this is just pitiful.

 

[Ironcat]

I find it funny that when Ironcat can't prove a point or answer something, it counts as me begging him to answer me so I can make a point.

However, he himself admitted that if someone doesn't respond to him, then he's made his point.

I think it's only fair that Ironcat applies this logic to himself as well? Anyone, anyone?

The only thing you have proven in this thread is that you can't make a point on your own. And you need us to help you out.

You were given 25 chances of making a point on your own. But you chickened out.

Who begs the other posters 25 times in a row to help them make a point?

 

[iZeeshan]

Going for Taraweeh now, will school you when I get back Ironcat. Don't worry, you can check in the morning. Sleep tight

 

[Ironcat]

iZeeshan was also given a challenge to come up with a post in this thread where he has given any stat, evidence, number, article or example of his own.

So far, chickened OUT.

 

[iZeeshan]

iZeeshan was also given a challenge to come up with a post in this thread where he has given any stat, evidence, number, article or example of his own.

So far, chickened OUT.

...You asked for a post where I used stats/evidence.

I told you go back when I responded to shahrukh and use his own quotes.

I made a claim using W/L rations.

Hop off your high horse and drop your ego.

Regardless, hope you're excited to wake up for school tomorrow

 

[Ironcat]

I think I'm gonna start a counter for all your useless posts.

<------------------ point of the posts

Your head

 

[Ironcat]

...You asked for a post where I used stats/evidence.

I told you go back when I responded to shahrukh and use his own quotes.

I made a claim using W/L rations.

Hop off your high horse and drop your ego.

Regardless, hope you're excited to wake up for school tomorrow

Is that why you can't even quote us a post here? You did this to Shahrukh, that to someone else.

All stories unless you quote it for us.

 

[iZeeshan]

Is that why you can't even quote us a post here? You did this to Shahrukh, that to someone else.

All stories unless you quote it for us.

Unlike you I don't like to constantly repeat myself. I know I did it and that's good enough for me, and if you really care that much, look it up yourself.

Now please stop it with the same crap over and over. It's getting tiring.

And FYI, before you start raiding over my taraweeh post earlier, I'm on my phone in the car on the way to the mosque. Will handle your crap when I get back.

 

[Ironcat]

Unlike you I don't like to constantly repeat myself. I know I did it and that's good enough for me, and if you really care that much, look it up yourself.

Now please stop it with the same crap over and over. It's getting tiring.

And FYI, before you start raiding over my taraweeh post earlier, I'm on my phone in the car on the way to the mosque. Will handle your crap when I get back.

Like I said, iZeeshan was given a challenge to come up with a post in this thread where he has given any stat, evidence, number, article or example of his own.

So far, "I did it, go check out yourself".

 

[iZeeshan]

Ironcat, you even quoted this post yet failed to realize that it did contain evidence (Misbah is a decent captain due to his W/L ratio)

Make a point about what? How am I just going to randomly make a point in this thread?

Misbah is a decent, not horrible or bad, but not brilliant, or great test captain. His W/L (Whatever it is, it's still a stat and has been discussed numerous times). Although the W/L ratio is brilliant, it does include wins against Zimbabwe and Bangladesh so it's quite inflated. However, he also has a series drawn against South Africa (on flat pitches though), whitewash against England, and a super win against Sri Lanka. All in all ,a decent, average captain.


There I made a point and used evidence. Are we done with your crap now?

 

[iZeeshan]

Post #2133, quoting Shahrukh to show him how he'd been schooled

Doesn't matter if you think it's right or not - point is that I used "evidence" to prove him

See how misleading "evidence" can be in any case - it's never conclusive

 

[iZeeshan]

<------------------ point of the posts

Your head

Is that right? Then I'm sure there is some useful point to this post?

Miscows' post size getting smaller and smaller.

Did we mix a new compound into the lessons today?

Down to one word now.

Next stop. Font size reduction.

 

[iZeeshan]

Post #1943 - another post where I used my own and your own quotes to prove how you're a crybaby

 

[iZeeshan]

Ironcat is superb in his analysis - do not doubt him.

In a matter of minutes he has proved Afridi has the highest W/L in ODIs in the past 5 years, making him #1 ODI captain, while Misbah is 3rd, behind Shoaib Malik.

He has also proved Umar Akmal's SR decreased under Misbah's guidance and influence.

Awesome work (keep it up).

What the first day of fasting can do to your mind.

Eat the biryani in the morning tomorrow. Recommended treatment for this syndrome.

Here, I'll make a new claim using evidence.

When the going gets tough, Ironcat jibes at his fellow posters and makes fun of him rather than respond to the fact that Afridi is our #1 captain in the last 5 years. Not to mention pulls out another useless post that does nothing.

I mean really, how is telling N_H to eat biryani after a day of fasting providing anything to the conversation?

Let everyone else be the judge who talks crap and actually tries to move the discussion forward here. What a horrible poster, I can't believe you've actually been awarded a POTW despite how well it was deserved at the time, it should be taken away from you for your useless abuse towards everyone in this thread.

 

[Ironcat]

Ironcat, you even quoted this post yet failed to realize that it did contain evidence (Misbah is a decent captain due to his W/L ratio)

I asked you to quote us a post where you presented a piece of evidence ON YOUR OWN. Not using others' evidence.

So, try again. Which W/L ratios did you determine for us by yourself?

 

[Ironcat]

Post #2133, quoting Shahrukh to show him how he'd been schooled

Doesn't matter if you think it's right or not - point is that I used "evidence" to prove him

See how misleading "evidence" can be in any case - it's never conclusive

All I see is your quoting Shahrukh's posts and his sentences/arguments. Which part of any evidence in that post was yours?

 

[Ironcat]

Is that right? Then I'm sure there is some useful point to this post?

Read post # 2270.

Yes.

Get it?

No? Then give it up. It's one of those everyday events where you jump in the middle of an argument without any clue, get schooled, put up your hands, and leave whining.

 

[Ironcat]

Post #1943 - another post where I used my own and your own quotes to prove how you're a crybaby

All I see in this post is your quoting a bunch of my posts as "exhibits".

Nothing original. Nothing on your own. All you are proving to us is that you cannot make a point on your own.

 

[Ironcat]

Here, I'll make a new claim using evidence.

When the going gets tough, Ironcat jibes at his fellow posters and makes fun of him rather than respond to the fact that Afridi is our #1 captain in the last 5 years. Not to mention pulls out another useless post that does nothing.

I mean really, how is telling N_H to eat biryani after a day of fasting providing anything to the conversation?

Let everyone else be the judge who talks crap and actually tries to move the discussion forward here. What a horrible poster, I can't believe you've actually been awarded a POTW despite how well it was deserved at the time, it should be taken away from you for your useless abuse towards everyone in this thread.

All you have proven in the last few posts is that you have no idea how to make a point on your own. The only thing you seem to be able to do is quote others and then add a random opinion at the end.

Your inability to make a point without relying on others' posts or evidence or stats has been proven by none other than you. We didn't even have to lift a finger.

Based on this sample, it is now safe to conclude that in your 27K posts you have never posted any piece of evidence, any article, any stat, any number, or any example on your own. You have always had to rely on others to make a point.

Something proven also by your begging for us 25 times in a row to help you out. When we didn't, you couldn't make the point.

Q.E.D.

 

[iZeeshan]

Umm, a batsman who has a high average in tests should also have a high average in ODIs. A good batsman is a good batsman. Not a test batsman or an ODI batsmen. And if a batsman isn't good in ODIs (like Younis), then it's his issue. Not an issue of comparison.

Misbah's ODI comparison is irrelevant because he didn't take over ODI captaincy after spot fixing. Afridi did. Once Misbah has captained in the same number of games that Afridi has, then you can compare their ODI captaincy.

So, spot fixing has had a squat role in our team's success.

So basically, what you are saying, is that it is okay to compare the performances of a team in two different formats? Despite the fact that there are different players playing and completely different approaches to the game?

What a pathetic defense. Does everyone here? Misbah > Afridi because Misbah got a 6 W/L ratio in tests but Afridi only achieved .93 in ODIs. That seems fair to compare.

Also, it means nothing that Afridi, after the spot fixing scandal took crashed us out of the SEMI-FINALS of a world tournament even though the past TWO world cups we didn't even make it past the group stages despite having a better team. What a point indeed.

Oh, they do get better if there is someone available to help them learn and get better. But when 9 out of your 11 players get better, that means the common element, the captain, has been of big help.

Can you provide proof of that? That seems like an empty statement to me. Why should I believe you?

So apparently Azhar Ali couldn't have improved on his own due to gaining experience, but Umar Akmal didn't improve under Misbah because he's unteachable (or whatever it is you said)

He never had a pair under Misbah.

Irrelevant. The point is that he's had plenty of bad performances under Misbah as well and just because he failed under Hafeez does not prove that Misbah is the reason he's doing well.

If he has improved so much BECAUSE of Misbah, then are you saying he's going to be a useless player when a new captain comes in? If it's all the work of Misbah, then why did Azhar fail under Hafeez? Not because Misbah wasn't playing, but because Azhar simply had a bad test.

I don't like running to stats guru every time but I'm sure even you're smart enough to conclude that Azhar has had bad tests under Misbah as well.

And for the record, Azhar has never had a pair )

And just to humor you, here's a test Azhar played under Misbah: http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/426414.html

Just as bad of a performance as he had under Hafeez

 

[iZeeshan]

Now, you have resorted to your conventional technique.

Lying.

Misbah has been playing for us in the last 5 years. Azhar has only played in the last two years.


Err, more lying.

Misbah played the Aussie series earlier in the same year that he became the captain.

Clearly I have my facts wrong.

Regardless. Azhar and Misbah both "happened" in the last 5 years, did they not?

 

[iZeeshan]

I asked you to quote us a post where you presented a piece of evidence ON YOUR OWN. Not using others' evidence.

So, try again. Which W/L ratios did you determine for us by yourself?

I did quote other people on my own.

I just gave you one in one of my later posts.

What the hell do you mean on my own? I can't use the same stats to prove a point that others have used? What kind of logic is that?

And not to mention, where do you even want me to use a stat. I've said this numerous times, yet you keep coming back to it.

If you are going to provide the stat Ironcat, then I will diffuse it by using a situation. I'm not making any claims here, that's why I'm not using stats. I'm merely disregarding your opinion through the SITUATION of the game which IN ITSELF is evidence.

Get that through your head and please don't repeat yourself again.

 

[iZeeshan]

Looks like the Cow School is already having its effects on Miscows. Schooled in debate, the Miscows now don't want to type anything more than a few words in their posts outside of this thread.

The only three posts cricket outside of this thread today:







The fear of getting PWNED. The fear of someone showing them the mirror from this thread. The fear of someone exposing them.

Ooh. The impending demise of the cows. Will a dark one rise again?

Post #2270. What am I supposed to get out of this post?

 

[iZeeshan]

All you have proven in the last few posts is that you have no idea how to make a point on your own. The only thing you seem to be able to do is quote others and then add a random opinion at the end.

Your inability to make a point without relying on others' posts or evidence or stats has been proven by none other than you. We didn't even have to lift a finger.

Based on this sample, it is now safe to conclude that in your 27K posts you have never posted any piece of evidence, any article, any stat, any number, or any example on your own. You have always had to rely on others to make a point.

Something proven also by your begging for us 25 times in a row to help you out. When we didn't, you couldn't make the point.

Q.E.D.

Ironcat, how about we stick to my 200 posts in this thread. You using 27k is irrelevant because I have been around here a lot longer and you do not have a clue about what I post in any other thread.

Once you respond to me about how I don't need to post a stat because you are making the claims then we can move on.

Instead you just play the same cassette of "27k" posts over and over again.

 

[Ironcat]

So basically, what you are saying, is that it is okay to compare the performances of a team in two different formats? Despite the fact that there are different players playing and completely different approaches to the game?

A win in any format is a win. 6 vs 0.93 CLEARLY tells you the difference in captaincy. Spot fixing was the common to both formats, yet the results were day and light apart. No evidence whatsoever that spot fixing made any difference.

No evidence that a similar event has made any difference to another team either.

What a pathetic defense. Does everyone here? Misbah > Afridi because Misbah got a 6 W/L ratio in tests but Afridi only achieved .93 in ODIs. That seems fair to compare.

Do you know what 6 vs 0.93 means?

It means that the first captain wins 6 matches PER loss. The second captain, on the other hand, loses more than wins.

Cannot be simpler than that.

Also, it means nothing that Afridi, after the spot fixing scandal took crashed us out of the SEMI-FINALS of a world tournament even though the past TWO world cups we didn't even make it past the group stages despite having a better team. What a point indeed.

Nobody other than fanboys remember semifinal defeats. We have won and made it to the finals in the past. Crashing out of semi finals is hardly anything to write back home about.

Afridi lost the championship. He lost more of the series. Only a fanboy would equate that to a 6.0 W/L, incl a 3-0 whitewash of the #1 team in the world.

Can you provide proof of that? That seems like an empty statement to me. Why should I believe you?

Proof? I gave you the proof. Nine out of 11 players improved under Misbah. You think Younis learnt more over the last 2 years even though his best years were 2006 to 2008? Hafeez has been in and out of the team. Only now did he learn to perform on his own?

In any case, Ajmal himself has credited his performance to Misbah. You can argue with him all day long.

So apparently Azhar Ali couldn't have improved on his own due to gaining experience, but Umar Akmal didn't improve under Misbah because he's unteachable (or whatever it is you said)

Umar Akmal isn't a test player. He is an ODI player, and he improved under Misbah in ODIs. Clear example that just playing more means squat.

Irrelevant. The point is that he's had plenty of bad performances under Misbah as well and just because he failed under Hafeez does not prove that Misbah is the reason he's doing well.

Sorry, I already gave you the numebrs (22 vs 56) PLUS a test with two near ducks. You can bang your head all you want, but none of that is going to change.

If he has improved so much BECAUSE of Misbah, then are you saying he's going to be a useless player when a new captain comes in? If it's all the work of Misbah, then why did Azhar fail under Hafeez? Not because Misbah wasn't playing, but because Azhar simply had a bad test.

Why didn't Azhar had a bad test in the second test or the third test? Or the UAE series?

Your defence is starting to sound more like Asif/Amir's, "Brilliant coincidence."

And just to humor you, here's a test Azhar played under Misbah: http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/426414.html

Just as bad of a performance as he had under Hafeez

You have schooled yourself there.

Salman Butt was the captain, NOT Misbah.

See, you need our help 24/7 to make a point.

 

[Ironcat]

Clearly I have my facts wrong.

Regardless. Azhar and Misbah both "happened" in the last 5 years, did they not?

One averages below the other, doesn't captain, has only started in ODIs now, and has already become the best in the last 5?

If your pick for the best in the last 5 is going to change from seies to series, then good luck to your credibility.

 

[Ironcat]

I did quote other people on my own.

I just gave you one in one of my later posts.

What the hell do you mean on my own? I can't use the same stats to prove a point that others have used? What kind of logic is that?

And not to mention, where do you even want me to use a stat. I've said this numerous times, yet you keep coming back to it.

If you are going to provide the stat Ironcat, then I will diffuse it by using a situation. I'm not making any claims here, that's why I'm not using stats. I'm merely disregarding your opinion through the SITUATION of the game which IN ITSELF is evidence.

Get that through your head and please don't repeat yourself again.

Unfortunately, iZeeshan. This isn't good enough.

You have been questioning Misbah's input in our team's improvement for the last 50 posts; yet you can't even dig an article up to prove one way or the other. Forget stats? How about an article? An analyst's opinion? Anything?

 

[iZeeshan]

One averages below the other, doesn't captain, has only started in ODIs now, and has already become the best in the last 5?

If your pick for the best in the last 5 is going to change from seies to series, then good luck to your credibility.

Azhar is around for another 10 years. Misbah will fart out in 2 max.

 

[Ironcat]

Post #2270. What am I supposed to get out of this post?

That your demigod is being schooled by us post by post such that even his posts in other threads have become short and non-existent. All of that leading to shortening the post sizes here as well such that DV or I don't quote his 24/7 contradictions.

If you still can't get it, then you need to go to bed.

 

[iZeeshan]

This time Ironcat...I really have no response. To your stupidity.

You're thick and stubborn.

Take it however you want - etch #2369 in your brain cite it whenever but I'm not going to respond to it. It's so incredibly flawed and filled with you repeating yourself despite stuff I have pointed out repeatedly, it's just not worth it.

Stop living off stats and start watching cricket and you'll see what Misbah has done to Pakistan. I can't wait till he leaves and we start rebuilding a team without him. I back Pakistan to win the 2015 WC.

 

[iZeeshan]

That your demigod is being schooled by us post by post such that even his posts in other threads have become short and non-existent. All of that leading to shortening the post sizes here as well such that DV or I don't quote his 24/7 contradictions.

If you still can't get it, then you need to go to bed.

My demigod? I have nothing to do with N_H. Grow up. When he's right, I agree with him. Simple as.

I don't fully agree with him as you've already seen.

I was just citing that you repeatedly make stupid posts about crap yet call me or other people out for it.

The double standards are insane.

 

[Ironcat]

Azhar is around for another 10 years. Misbah will fart out in 2 max.

I sincerely want that to happen. And I want Misbah to retire as soon as he stops performing as well.

 

[iZeeshan]

Though you know Ironcat - it's funny.

15% of your posts are in this thread, yet we're still here and your brilliant "evidence" is yet to convince anyone fully.

Such a waste of life for you. I certainly hope you're a 20 year old who has an internship during the summer where he does nothing all day (that's me) or something less, because if you're a fully grown adult posting on this thread yet accomplishing nothing then I feel bad for you

 

[Ironcat]

Ironcat, how about we stick to my 200 posts in this thread. You using 27k is irrelevant because I have been around here a lot longer and you do not have a clue about what I post in any other thread.

Once you respond to me about how I don't need to post a stat because you are making the claims then we can move on.

Instead you just play the same cassette of "27k" posts over and over again.

Read post # 1448 for an example of how to win a debate without using a single stat.

 

[iZeeshan]

I sincerely want that to happen. And I want Misbah to retire as soon as he stops performing as well.

You know IC, we may not be all that different.

Except your debating style is horrid, aggressive, abusive, and annoying.

Perhaps if you went into everything with a calm mind like you do with some posts, some posters wouldn't hate you as much.

 

[iZeeshan]

Read post # 1448 for an example of how to win a debate without losing a single stat.

Yes that was job well done. Already agreed with you on the progress of Ajmal.

But him calling a good captain is one out of how many that played under him?

Not to mention, you haven't realized that more often than not, players usually are diplomatic in their statements.

 

[Ironcat]

Though you know Ironcat - it's funny.

15% of your posts are in this thread, yet we're still here and your brilliant "evidence" is yet to convince anyone fully.

Such a waste of life for you. I certainly hope you're a 20 year old who has an internship during the summer where he does nothing all day (that's me) or something less, because if you're a fully grown adult posting on this thread yet accomplishing nothing then I feel bad for you

Plenty of people have agreed with me in this thread, incl. quite a few earlier today. But, I need not bring it up in my arguments.

 

[Ironcat]

You know IC, we may not be all that different.

Except your debating style is horrid, aggressive, abusive, and annoying.

Perhaps if you went into everything with a calm mind like you do with some posts, some posters wouldn't hate you as much.

I'm calm enough, but I apologize if some of my posts come across as aggressive or as above.

 

[iZeeshan]

Plenty of people have agreed with me in this thread, incl. quite a few earlier today. But, I need not bring it up in my arguments.

Bhai yaar, people come in here and agree with me/Namak as well. It all depends on which side they are on.

The only way to actually use that as useful info is if a respected, experienced poster comes in and reads the entire thread, and then makes a judgement.

My point is that you have not convinced any of the 'Miscows' and vice versa. So what's the point?

I'm calm enough, but I apologize if some of my posts come across as aggressive or as above.

I can't believe my eyes! Ironcat being a human. I respect you for this post.

You have to agree that this is way beyond Misbah now and has become an ego battle with the constant useless jibes and obvious dodging of each other.

Why can't we just agree to disagree?

 

[Namak_Halaal]

What's this I am reading?

Is this the best PP thread ever?

I think so!

 

[Namak_Halaal]

Here, I'll make a new claim using evidence.

When the going gets tough, Ironcat jibes at his fellow posters and makes fun of him rather than respond to the fact that Afridi is our #1 captain in the last 5 years. Not to mention pulls out another useless post that does nothing.

I mean really, how is telling N_H to eat biryani after a day of fasting providing anything to the conversation?

Let everyone else be the judge who talks crap and actually tries to move the discussion forward here. What a horrible poster, I can't believe you've actually been awarded a POTW despite how well it was deserved at the time, it should be taken away from you for your useless abuse towards everyone in this thread.

I loved the part where Ironcat was highlighting my posting activity beyond this thread. He still couldn't get it right but what a master stroke!

Ironcat proving Afridi is the #1 ODI captain in the last 5 years based on an attribute which forms the nucleus of Ironcat's argument was a sight to see, I mean a sight to see.

You've reduced Ironcat to an apology.

I am impressed.

 

[Ironcat]

Well, well, Miscows have begun the day with an absolutely nothing post.

Can't say there was any element of surprise though.

 

[shahrukh619]

Misbots are often chastised when inflating Misbah’s tenure as captain by claiming Zimbabwe and Bangladesh are heavyweights.

ODI W/L Stats based on last 12 months

As you can see, Pakistan is 5th behind England and South Africa (that’s if you count Ireland/Netherlands as heavyweights).

Now let’s remove Zimbabwe and Bangladesh from the equation (this means excluding the ASIA CUP 2 Run victory over Bangladesh)

Oh my. Pakistan drops to 7th, with every heavyweight ranked higher. (Not counting Zimbabwe as Bangladesh as heavyweights of course.)

Pakistan's W/L ratio drops to .66 from 1.66. This is lower than Afridi's ODI captaincy W/L ratio.

Now we know why Ironcat was begging us folks to grant Misbah more time in the ODIs.

Now we know why Misbots consider Zimbabwe and Bangladesh heavyweights.

Now we know why Misbots rather not talk about Misbah’s ODI tenure.

Now we know why Misbots subscribe to ODI tournaments exclusively.

Glory hunters the lot of them.

Misbah must retire from ODIs ASAP.

PS: Credit to Freelance Cricketer for the stats.

Again why excluding all the victories? Victories against a team that defeat the world cup chAmpions and runner ups...

and that game wasn't an easy walk to park it was quite hard....

Ghaddar is now excluding pak victories...

 

[shahrukh619]

Pakistan is 5th behind England and South Africa (

But above of Australia,West Indies, New Zealand, Sri Lanka, India..

 

[shahrukh619]

NH, Ramazan is here, go into hibernating...


Liar......

 

[iZeeshan]

Shahrukh, if you can tell me that you have never made a post about stats excluding Zimbabwe and Bangladesh to discredit Umar Akmal, Shahid Afridi or whoever, then I will take you seriously.

But the fact of the matter is that, no one accepts victories over them as a big thing. No one takes them serious and every team is expected to beat them. A couple of victories here and there do not make them heavyweights, however, they might become that in a couple of years following their recent performances. But right now, wins against them is no big deal.

 

[iZeeshan]

And you STILL didn't respond to me

 

[shahrukh619]

This thread shows that many here did not even bother to watch a single game of the Asia Cup

 

[iZeeshan]

This thread shows that many here did not even bother to watch a single game of the Asia Cup

I watched the entire Asia Cup...what's next?

Also, Shahrukh are you just going to pretend that I didn't school you before?

 

[shahrukh619]

you watched the entire Asia Cup and still don't remember a single game.... Damagh ka elaag kar wao...

you and pwning anyone )

Ironcat? how many has it been 27?

 

[iZeeshan]

you watched the entire Asia Cup and still don't remember a single game.... Damagh ka elaag kar wao...

you and pwning anyone )

Ironcat? how many has it been 27?

Shahrukh. Post #2133. THis is the 10th time you've dodged it now.

I watched the entire Asia Cup. Tell me, what am I supposed to see? Make your point.

 

[shahrukh619]

@PakPassion Azhar Ali "The captain defines my role before each game so I know what I have to do in the match.Credit to Misbah bhai for the way he's led"

Or does NH think Azhar Ali is liar, and he knows more??????

Even Juniors like Misbah...

 

[shahrukh619]

@PakPassion Azhar Ali: "Before each tour, the captain and coach talk to the players individually and identify the areas where we need to work on."
__________________

more for NH....

 

[FusedBulb]

Or does NH think Azhar Ali is liar, and he knows more??????

Even Juniors like Misbah...

more for NH....


@PakPassion Azhar Ali: "Before each tour, the captain and coach talk to the players individually and identify the areas where we need to work on."

@PakPassion Azhar Ali "The captain defines my role before each game so I know what I have to do in the match.Credit to Misbah bhai for the way he's led"

^^

I think iZeshan has already provided a fairly reasonable answer to such meaningless gibberish.

Not to mention, you haven't realized that more often than not, players usually are diplomatic in their statements.

 

[shahrukh619]

No one asked azhar ali about misbah, he bought him up byhimself... And tells us how they work ans plan...

Lol, now you guys are calling azhar ali a liar now ...

Ony izeeshan and namak halal are the only roght ones the rest are liars

 

[iZeeshan]

No one asked azhar ali about misbah, he bought him up byhimself... And tells us how they work ans plan...

Lol, now you guys are calling azhar ali a liar now ...

Ony izeeshan and namak halal are the only roght ones the rest are liars

What a rubbish statement. He was obviously asked about your plans, etc and he gave the most apt answer available. "captain and coach" - typical diplomatic answer. Nothing about Misbah specifically like the Ajmal quote, which falls under the same umbrella.

Also shahrukh still has no response for me. He has been schooled. He's avoided it 11 times now.

 

[Inziquicksingle]

You guys are still wasting your time with Shahrukh and Ironcat?

Misbah is a mediocre captain and mediocre batsman. Everyone save a few fanboys know this.

 

[shahrukh619]

Medicore captains defeats the worlds no 1 test team 3-0.. What a legend misbah is!

 

[Bilal7]

You guys are still wasting your time with Shahrukh and Ironcat?

Misbah is a mediocre captain and mediocre batsman. Everyone save a few fanboys know this.

Calling him mediocre would be under-rating him.

Misbah is an above average batsmen and a good captain.
Comparing him with the current Pakistani lot would make him a good batsman and a great captain.