The Misbah-ul-Haq Captaincy Analysis Thread

[Ironcat]

We did win the Asia Cup, there’s no doubt, but to win by 2 runs vs Bangladesh just goes to show how lucky Misbah was with his captaincy and performance. Credit goes to the players not the captaincy.

But, here is what you posted earlier:

I blame the captain because the buck stops at him.

So, Miscows have proved that they will blame the captain when the team does poorly but credit the players when the team does well.

That's that for the hypocrisy argument.

 

[Namak_Halaal]

Er, the fact our captain beat Bangladesh by 2 runs is supposed to be a testament to Misbah's fantastic captaincy?

Credit goes to players who a) didn't surrender to Misbah's weak captaincy, and b) did not perish in Misbah's boring and predictable defensive tactics.

 

[Ironcat]

For the same reason Misbah's average has improved - Minnow and Mediocre bashing.

I am talking about temperament.

Try and see a POV from beyond stats.

And how is temperament not improved if he has now learned under Misbah to score MORE runs than before when his SR is unchanged?

 

[truthseer]

Namak, Ramadan has started in Pakistan. You know, Islamic Calendar starts from Maghrib

 

[Ironcat]

Er, the fact our captain beat Bangladesh by 2 runs is supposed to be a testament to Misbah's fantastic captaincy?

Credit goes to players who a) didn't surrender to Misbah's weak captaincy, and b) did not perish in Misbah's boring and predictable defensive tactics.

Here is how the players feel about the captain. So, maybe you can show us thei r alternative opinions:

Ajmal:

“I credit my captain (Misbahul Haq) for the success myself or Abdur Rehman (18 wickets) got in the series. He told us from the start that there would be spin pitches and he had confidence we could deliver,” Ajmal said.

“It felt good bowling in tandem with Rehman. There was less pressure on me. Our captain had planned out everything in detail like which bowler will bowl to which batsmen and so on and it worked beautifully.”

 

[Namak_Halaal]

Namak, Ramadan has started in Pakistan. You know, Islamic Calendar starts from Maghrib

Ramadan Mubarek ho.

 

[Ironcat]

For the same reason Misbah's average has improved - Minnow and Mediocre bashing.

I am talking about temperament.

Try and see a POV from beyond stats.

Actually, more PWNAGE coming up.

U Akmal's SR in ODIs under Misbah: 82.39

U Akmal's SR in ODIs under others: 86.30

 

[Namak_Halaal]

Here is how the players feel about the captain. So, maybe you can show us thei r alternative opinions:

Ajmal:

Perhaps I am missing something. You are quoting an interview after the 3-0 WW and using the same interview to defend what players think of Misbah after the beating Bangladesh by 2 runs?

Stick with ODIs.

 

[Ironcat]

Shahrukh and Ironcat's criteria is centered around where Misbah does well. First it was all games. Then it was just ODIs and Tests. Then it was just Tests and ODI championships. Next it will be everything before 2012 because Azhar Ali or JK will get injured and it's not fair for Misbah to captain a team without them.

The guy is a proven liar. Maybe he can show us where I said FIRST that "all games matter".

 

[Ironcat]

Perhaps I am missing something. You are quoting an interview after the 3-0 WW and using the same interview to defend what players think of Misbah after the beating Bangladesh by 2 runs?

Stick with ODIs.

I'm giving you evidence of how players feel about their captain. They are not hypocrites like you to change their opinions when schooled.

 

[Namak_Halaal]

Actually, more PWNAGE coming up.

U Akmal's SR in ODIs under Misbah: 82.39

U Akmal's SR in ODIs under others: 86.30

So Umar Ukmal has a higher SR under other captains? Got it. Makes sense now. Misbah's defensive mentality is blessed on UA.

How do like these apples beta?

 

[shahrukh619]

A 1:7 score line after 2 ODIs warrants an investigation quite frankly. The captain must be held responsible for such a poor performance.

Pakistani fans demand answers.

Forgetting the Asia Cup?
AgainThe great ghaddar is dodging the asia cup... and not only the asia cup, but also Misbahs past record like the 4-1 win against SRi Lanka...

 

[Ironcat]

Shahrukh you are the master of dodging. Avoiding me for the 5th time now.

Another proof that you cannot make a point without needing others' help.

 

[shahrukh619]

So Umar Ukmal has a higher SR under other captains? Got it. Makes sense now. Misbah's defensive mentality is blessed on UA.

How do like these apples beta?

the difference in the strike rate is just 1 ball you fool

 

[Ironcat]

So Umar Ukmal has a higher SR under other captains? Got it. Makes sense now. Misbah's defensive mentality is blessed on UA.

How do like these apples beta?

So, tell us, what is it that you are talking about...

I am talking about temperament.

Need a rope?

 

[shahrukh619]

Another proof that you cannot make a point without needing others' help.

Izeeshan how am i pwned.. plz tell me

 

[iZeeshan]

Shahrukh you probably just need to stop talking after being unable to respond to me.

Pathetic how you can go on repeating yourself when I have already schooled you.

 

[shahrukh619]

So, tell us, what is it that you are talking about...


Need a rope?

and funny after how he was pwned about the average of umar akmal misbah he tried dodging it and now he has bought up strike rate....

The master of Dodging, the one and only, the Great GHaddar

 

[Namak_Halaal]

Misbots would love to amalgamate 1:7 and ODI tournament stats. Why? For one it will bolster Misbah's W/L, and for two, Misbots believe ODI tournaments only count thus they must apply the same distinction to 1:7 stats.

 

[shahrukh619]

Shahrukh you probably just need to stop talking after being unable to respond to me.

Pathetic how you can go on repeating yourself when I have already schooled you.

lol, schooled me???
ok bro, show me the post, i will answer, and will end that moment of happiness you were having of thinking that you pwned me, when you actually not..

 

[iZeeshan]

No, its a sign that nobody has to remind you of your utter lack of arguments. You YOURSELF agree.


The guy wants to prove a point, but need my help in proving it.

Tell m. Do you post here by yourself, or do you have help? I just want to see how many students are in my class.


Because iZeeshan cannot make a point without the help of other posters. Proven.

What a constant joy you are.

poor Ironcat is probably crying behind the screen while he pretends to laugh here

The point is that you say one thing and can't back it up. Doesn't matter what anyone else does.

If stats are objective and not biased then why don't you go ahead and answer my question.

Rather can be openly schooled, you're okay with knowing tht you're schooled but don't want to publicly display embarassment.

Constant dodging changing the subject focusing on other things has gotta count for something...getting schooled.

No response from either Shahrukh or Ironcat yet.

Ironcat believes that by me needing him to prove a point relieves him of being schooled and actually wins him the argument.

 

[shahrukh619]

Misbots would love to amalgamate 1:7 and ODI tournament stats. Why? For one it will bolster Misbah's W/L, and for two, Misbots believe ODI tournaments count thus they must apply the same distinction to 1:7 stats.

again, TGG, don't dodge the Asia Cup and the Pakistan Vs Sri Lanka series..

 

[iZeeshan]

lol, schooled me???
ok bro, show me the post, i will answer, and will end that moment of happiness you were having of thinking that you pwned me, when you actually not..

I have actually quoted it and mentioned it 7 times. You even quoted me on it but didn't respond. Go back and look please. I'm on my phone and its not easy for me.

 

[Namak_Halaal]

So, tell us, what is it that you are talking about...


Need a rope?

Need a rope? You are asking me? You set out proving UA has a higher SR under Misbah but the converse was true. To add insult to injury you posted the stats! Were you going to use the SR is proportional to temperament argument? Backfired. Tsk tsk.

What was it you said? 'More PWNGE coming up!'

You said it Ironcat.

YORKED.

 

[iZeeshan]

again, TGG, don't dodge the Asia Cup and the Pakistan Vs Sri Lanka series..

Sri Lanka just beat us so the previous victory is irrelevant as it means we are getting worse.

As for the Asia cup I already schooled. Go above and check it out.

 

[Ironcat]

Shahrukh you probably just need to stop talking after being unable to respond to me.

Pathetic how you can go on repeating yourself when I have already schooled you.

Yesterday, iZeeshan couldn't give us a single psot where he had used a stat, an evidence, an article, a number, or an example.

Today, he wants to beg others for help to help him prove his point.

Based on this sample, you can project what has has done in his past 28K posts.

 

[iZeeshan]

Shahrukh have you noticed how your buddy Ironcat keeps dodging my simple question.

 

[iZeeshan]

Yesterday, iZeeshan couldn't give us a single psot where he had used a stat, an evidence, an article, a number, or an example.

Today, he wants to beg others for help to help him prove his point.

Based on this sample, you can project what has has done in his past 28K posts.

we've gone to 28k now

I'm not begging Ironcat. I'm asking you to respond to save your own dignity.

 

[Ironcat]

Need a rope? You are asking me? You set out proving UA has a higher SR under Misbah but the converse was true. Were you going to use the SR is proportional to temperament argument? Backfired. Tsk tsk.

What was it you said? 'More Epic PWNGE coming up!'

Yorked.

So, based on your argument, Afridi has the highest temperament in the team.

Since in your world, higher SR = higher temperament.

Because:

I am talking about temperament.

Then, Miscows wonder why they are called hypocrites.

 

[Ironcat]

we've gone to 28k now

I'm not begging Ironcat. I'm asking you to respond to save your own dignity.

You are asking others to help you make a point.

And you have done it for at least 20 times in a row.

Sounds like begging to me.

 

[Namak_Halaal]

What Pak vs SL stats is Sharukh619 harping on about? Anyone know? Is he refering to The latest ODI series between the two when Pakistan lost 3-1?

Pray tell.

 

[Ironcat]

poor Ironcat is probably crying behind the screen while he pretends to laugh here

The point is that you say one thing and can't back it up. Doesn't matter what anyone else does.

If stats are objective and not biased then why don't you go ahead and answer my question.

Rather can be openly schooled, you're okay with knowing tht you're schooled but don't want to publicly display embarassment.

Constant dodging changing the subject focusing on other things has gotta count for something...getting schooled.

No response from either Shahrukh or Ironcat yet.

Ironcat believes that by me needing him to prove a point relieves him of being schooled and actually wins him the argument.

Clear as day and light that you continue to beg others to help you make a point.

Is it really that difficult to make a point on your own? I mean, the Great Ghaddar says that, 28K...err...27K posts later, you can finally be taken more seriously.

 

[iZeeshan]

You are asking others to help you make a point.

And you have done it for at least 20 times in a row.

Sounds like begging to me.

Ironcat if you aren't afraid of getting schooled or are so correct, why are you do afraid of answering my question?

 

[iZeeshan]

Clear as day and light that you continue to beg others to help you make a point.

Is it really that difficult to make a point on your own? I mean, the Great Ghaddar says that, 28K...err...27K posts later, you can finally be taken more seriously.

Go look at my posts in any other thread where I made my OWN claim, I provided evidence.

The fact is that you provide the stats and I diffuse it using the situation behind the stats which is just as if not more important.

But you don't believe in the situation. However I'm proving to you that it does, and you're dodging it.

 

[Namak_Halaal]

So, based on your argument, Afridi has the highest temperament in the team.

Since in your world, higher SR = higher temperament.

Because:


Then, Miscows wonder why they are called hypocrites.

Not at all. Afridi has nothing to do with this and more importantly I certainly did not posit the argument SR was proportional to temperament, you did, with your self detonating SR stats.

Walk back to the pavilion like a good boy and come better prepared next time.

 

[iZeeshan]

Lol, Ironcat realizes that if he answers the question I'll school him and then his entire argument about my 25, 26, 45k posts will turn into water. Which will make me right.

Poor guy.

 

[shahrukh619]

What Pak vs SL stats is Sharukh619 harping on about? Anyone know? Is he refering to The latest ODI series between the two when Pakistan lost 3-1?

Pray tell.

lol, NH you fool....

NH doesn't even know the difference of PAK Vs Sri and Sri Vs Pak

Sri vs Pak=Sri lanka being the home team and Pak being the away team.
Pak vs Sri= Pakistan being the home team and Sri being the away team....

now don't ask me wather the last odi series was an away series for Sri Lanka or home........

 

[Ironcat]

Ironcat if you aren't afraid of getting schooled or are so correct, why are you do afraid of answering my question?

Let's set up the counter from the last count onwards: 21.

At the moment, you have qualified for "begging" others to help you make a point.

When the counter reaches 30, you will have qualified for "imploring" others to help you make a point.

There are other prizes too beyond 30.

 

[Ironcat]

Not at all. Afridi has nothing to do with this and more importantly I certainly did not posit the argument SR was proportional to temperament, you did, with your self detonating SR stats.

Pretty clear to us what you said:

I am talking about temperament.

So Umar Ukmal has a higher SR under other captains? Got it. Makes sense now.

Why, oh why?

 

[iZeeshan]

Let's set up the counter from the last count onwards: 21.

At the moment, you have qualified for "begging" others to help you make a point.

When the counter reaches 30, you will have qualified for "imploring" others to help you make a point.

There are other prizes too beyond 30.

Lol, why don't we take your count where you haven't made a point and just repeated yourself.

Didn't see that one coming did you?

Also I use quotes to school people aka you and shahrukh which is evidence so I'm pretty sure your counter is down to like 4.

 

[Ironcat]

Lol, Ironcat realizes that if he answers the question I'll school him and then his entire argument about my 25, 26, 45k posts will turn into water. Which will make me right.

Poor guy.

The counter is at 22.

 

[Ironcat]

Lol, why don't we take your count where you haven't made a point and just repeated yourself.

Didn't see that one coming did you?

Also I use quotes to school people aka you and shahrukh which is evidence so I'm pretty sure your counter is down to like 4.

So, tell us. If U Akmal scores 44 runs under Misbah at a SR of 82 versus 36 runs under others at a SR of 86, has his temperament improved under Misbah or not?

 

[iZeeshan]

So, tell us. If U Akmal scores 44 runs under Misbah at a SR of 82 versus 36 runs under others at a SR of 86, has his temperament improved under Misbah or not?

What does that have to do with anything?

Better reset your counter based on my last post. And start your's

 

[DeadlyVenom]

You guys think that someone who calls others indian ghaddars but has has styled his online persona after an Indian movie can be taken seriously?

He is a liar and traitor with no shame.

He will push his zimmer frame hard and run like the wind when confronted.

 

[Namak_Halaal]

Pretty clear to us what you said:

Why, oh why?

Ironcat stop wasting time on this point.

Didn’t I humbly request you to see a POV beyond stats? No, instead you go in all guns blazing trying to prove Umar Ukmal has a better SR under Misbah and instead disproved your own argument along with any other point on temperament you had. You embarrassed yourself and you know it deep down.

You have learned two valuable lessons.

1 – Never take pride in yourself. It will back fire.
2 – Temperament cannot be quantified in stats.

Temperament isn’t about just about SR and AVGs, it about psychology, how to play a situation, how to handle a situation that sort of thing.

Save the damage control. You were already dead and buried when you posted the stats.

Now move on.

 

[Ironcat]

Ironcat stop wasting time on this point.

...........

Temperament isn’t about just about SR and AVGs, it about psychology, how to play a situation, how to handle a situation that sort of thing.

...........

Now move on.

Now, now, don't run away THAT quickly from arguments. iZeeshan doesn't want to answer it, but this one is your own point - so have a pair to face up to it.

The question is simple.

If U Akmal scores 44 runs under Misbah at a SR of 82 versus 36 runs under others at a SR of 86, has his temperament improved under Misbah or not?

 

[Namak_Halaal]

Ironcat is wasting my time now.

 

[Ironcat]

Any other Miscows left to have a pair for that question?

 

[Namak_Halaal]

Any other Miscows left to have a pair for that question?

It was answered moons ago.

Minnows and Mediocre bashing was the cause.

You need some rest.

 

[Ironcat]

It was answered moons ago.

Minnows and Mediocre bashing was the cause.

You need some rest.

So, you are saying Umar Akmal only performs against "minnows" and mediocre teams?

Bullet Drive, do you agree?

 

[Namak_Halaal]

So, you are saying Umar Akmal only performs against "minnows" and mediocre teams?

No. What makes you say that?

I am saying temperament cannot be quantified in stats.

There is no evidence of UA's temperament improving under Misbah.

 

[Ironcat]

No. What makes you say that?

I am saying temperament cannot be quantified in stats.

There is no evidence of UA's temperament improving under Misbah.

How so?

Are you saying that a higher temperament player will score fewer runs at a higher rate?

In any case, YOU are making the claim that U Akmal hasn't improved under Misbah, so YOU need to provide evidence of that claim. "No evidence to the contrary" isn't going to cut it.

 

[Namak_Halaal]

So shahrukh619 has confirmed it was the latest series.

So that's 0-4 & 1-3 meaning 1-7

Got it.

 

[Namak_Halaal]

Oh dear. It seems Ironcat back to his childish antics.

Ouch.

 

[Ironcat]

Oh dear. It seems Ironcat back to his childish antics.

Ouch.

Maybe our resident expert on Umar Akmal "Bullet Drive" has grown a pair to answer the question.

BD, if U Akmal scores 44 runs under Misbah at a SR of 82 versus 36 runs under others at a SR of 86, has his temperament improved under Misbah or not?

 

[Ironcat]

So shahrukh619 has confirmed it was the latest series.

So that's 0-4 & 1-3 meaning 1-7

But, I thought:

stats do not reveal context or value

Clearly, Miscows cannot seem to let go of hypocrisy even when shown the mirror.

 

[Namak_Halaal]

It seems ODI matter now. Such a pitful defence of 1:7.

 

[Ironcat]

It seems ODI matter now. Such a pitful defence of 1:7.

ODIs? Who said anything about ODIs? Did your post?

I only see W-L "stats" in that post.

 

[Namak_Halaal]

Why does Ironcat think I am responding to him? Anyone?

What insecurity.

 

[Ironcat]

Oh, you wanna be left alone. Why didn't you say so, bro? Pas de probleme.

 

[Namak_Halaal]

Oh, you wanna be left alone. Why didn't you say so, bro? Pas de probleme.

A Ghaddar can never be my bro.

 

[Ironcat]

A Ghaddar can never be my bro.

You are right. I am only your understudy in "ghaddari".

 

[iZeeshan]

Still no response from IC and Shahrukh

 

[Ironcat]

Still no response from IC and Shahrukh

The begging counter reaches 23. Only 7 more to go.

 

[Namak_Halaal]

You are right. I am only your understudy in "ghaddari".

So you admit you are a Ghaddar because I have not admitted you are my protege.

Much appreciated.

 

[Ironcat]

So you admit you are a Ghaddar because I have not admitted you are my protege.

Much appreciated.

How does that work?

I am admitting to be your understudy. Irrelevant whether you reciprocate or not.

 

[Namak_Halaal]

It was only a matter of time before Ironcat confessed to the truth.

I shall read Namaz while Ironcat decides how much to bet on Australia.

 

[Ironcat]

It was only a matter of time before Ironcat confessed to the truth.

I shall read Namaz while Ironcat decides how much to bet on Australia.

Well, it was only a matter of time before you admitted to being the Great Ghaddar.

I look forward to your next 10 posts of "no, that's not what I said.."

 

[Ironcat]

You guys think that someone who calls others indian ghaddars but has has styled his online persona after an Indian movie can be taken seriously?

He is a liar and traitor with no shame.

He will push his zimmer frame hard and run like the wind when confronted.

Exactemundo.

Though he took the bait almost too easily on his route to admitting that he is indeed the "great" one.

 

[shahrukh619]

So shahrukh619 has confirmed it was the latest series.

So that's 0-4 & 1-3 meaning 1-7

Got it.

Lol nh thinks that the last odi series was a pakistani home series ) what a dork...

 

[shahrukh619]

It was only a matter of time before Ironcat confessed to the truth.

I shall read Namaz while Ironcat decides how much to bet on Australia.

Do ask for forgiveness for all the lieing and twisting words

 

[shahrukh619]

Read some post on the first few pages.. Hilarious ).. What a pwnage they got after the england series

 

[Namak_Halaal]

Misbots are often chastised when inflating Misbah’s tenure as captain by claiming Zimbabwe and Bangladesh are heavyweights.

ODI W/L Stats based on last 12 months

As you can see, Pakistan is 5th behind England and South Africa (that’s if you count Ireland/Netherlands as heavyweights).

Now let’s remove Zimbabwe and Bangladesh from the equation (this means excluding the ASIA CUP 2 Run victory over Bangladesh)

Oh my. Pakistan drops to 7th, with every heavyweight ranked higher. (Not counting Zimbabwe as Bangladesh as heavyweights of course.)

Pakistan's W/L ratio drops to .66 from 1.66. This is lower than Afridi's ODI captaincy W/L ratio.

Now we know why Ironcat was begging us folks to grant Misbah more time in the ODIs.

Now we know why Misbots consider Zimbabwe and Bangladesh heavyweights.

Now we know why Misbots rather not talk about Misbah’s ODI tenure.

Now we know why Misbots subscribe to ODI tournaments exclusively.

Glory hunters the lot of them.

Misbah must retire from ODIs ASAP.

PS: Credit to Freelance Cricketer for the stats.

 

[Ironcat]

I thought:

stats dont reveal quality or context

 

[Namak_Halaal]

I should remind readers of one important fact - the stats reveal the difference between quality and quantity.

Magnificent illustration.

 

[Ironcat]

As taught in the previous term.

IN THE LAST FIVE YEARS IN TESTS

Let's first rank our performers against test teams, excluding Bangladesh and Zimbos.

Pakistan's test captains:

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...anval1=span;team=7;template=results;type=team

Pakistan's test batsmen:

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...al1=span;team=7;template=results;type=batting

Pakistan's test bowlers:

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...al1=span;team=7;template=results;type=bowling

IN THE LAST FIVE YEARS IN ODIS

Pakistan's ODI captains:

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...anval1=span;team=7;template=results;type=team

Pakistan's ODI batsmen:

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...al1=span;team=7;template=results;type=batting

Before the T20 kids start pulling out SR-sorted lists, here is the relative ranking on an AV*SR basis:

Misbah: AV*SR of 3197
Yousuf: AV*SR of 2807
U Akmal: AV*SR of 3031

Misbah still tops the list.

Pakistan's ODI bowlers:

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...al1=span;team=7;template=results;type=bowling

----------------------

CONCLUSIONS:

In the last five years, Misbah has been our #1 test captain, #2 or #3 ODI captain, #2 test batsman, and #1 ODI batsman.

In the last five years, Ajmal hasn't captained us, but he has been our #2 test bowler and #2 ODI bowler.

In the last five years, Younis has been our #6 test captain, #4 ODI captain, #1 test batsman, and #7 ODI batsman.

In the last five years, Afridi has been our #4 test captain, #1 or #3 ODI captain, a non-existent test bowler, and #11 ODI bowler.

In the last five years, Amir hasn't captained us, but he has been our #6 test bowler and #1 ODI bowler.

In the last five years, Asif hasn't captained us, but he has been our #3 test bowler and a non-existent ODI bowler.

And so on.

So, based on the above, it is clear that Misbah has been our best overall captain and our best overall player in the last five years. In the player category, Ajmal comes very close (perhaps even better in some ways), but for me, it's a toss-up, and since Ajmal performed poorly (at least in tests) before Misbah became the captain, Misbah should also deserve some credit for Ajmal's turnaround.

Note that I make this distinction based on my overwhelming preference for test performances, but since that crowd can't think beyond LOIs, I have given adequate weight to the ODIs as well.

All said and done, Misbah is the best thing to happen to Pakistan cricket in the last five years. Haters better find another line of work.

 

[Namak_Halaal]

I don't quite think Ironcat grasped the point. Probably because he is too busy clutching at straws.

 

[Namak_Halaal]

By the way, why is Ironcat's measuring a 5 year period? Someone remind Ironcat how long Misbah has been ODI and Test captain.

Tsk Tsk.

 

[Ironcat]

So, let's see.

stats dont reveal quality or context

vs

I should remind readers of one important fact - the stats reveal the difference between quality and quantity.

So, if you put 2 and 2 together, what he means to say is, as stats don't reveal quality, but they reveal difference between quality and quantity, they must reveal only quantity.

So, when he goes on to post those multiple charts of stats, he assures us that he is providing an example of quantity over quality. Well done, Miscows!

 

[Ironcat]

By the way, why is Ironcat's measuring a 5 year period? Someone remind Ironcat how long Misbah has been ODI and Test captain.

Miscows now want to compare Misbah's captaincy with our "other" captains only during the period while Misbah was captain.