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The Pakistan think tank needs to reassess their thinking

saeed-sohail

saeed-sohail

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What's going on? Are we playing on a fast Waca track against Ambrose Donald and Styen? This is the worst batting approach from Pakistan ever on a Sub Continent type track facing 75mph trundlers. They let the bowlers settle by unnecessary tuk tuk. There is no intent whatsoever despite chasing 284.

Captain is on the crease but no change in strategy. Where is experienced Waqar in all this?

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Why are Pakistan going with joke selection and batting order

First game they included a club level off spinner and hack to open the innings. Today they replaced him with a guy who is marginally better with the ball and bat but still way off the international standard to go and bat 4.

Is the cupboard this bare in FC? These guys are barely above minnow standards.

These are utterly shocking selections and batting orders.
 
Is this something that has happened for the first time? NO

Is this something that has happened for the last time? NO

What were you expecting?
 
Deewana Mastana said:
Is this something that has happened for the first time? NO

Is this something that has happened for the last time? NO

What were you expecting?
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We use to blame Misbah but who is to blame now. Lack of intent against this attack is worrying.

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Misbah might be watching the match on TV, they are being influenced by him

Or he is subliminally transferring his tuk tuk to the batsmen..
 
Our ODI team should be dissolved. Team Pakistan should only play Test cricket in the UAE; that's all we are good for.
 
saeed-sohail said:
We use to blame Misbah but who is to blame now. Lack of intent against this attack is worrying.

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LOL!

You are talking as if it has happened in the history of Pak cricket for the first time.

Blame the management, what was the purpose of sending in a newbie at that stage with the side at 10-2?

Not selecting players on merit, ability and agility will go a long way to hurt Pakistan in all formats.

We are No 8 for a reason - THIS!
 
too many tuk tuks in the team. No intent. This team is only good to chase targets around 200. Anything around 250, they will collapse.
 
We selected a player with a List A average of 34 to bat at No 4. We chose a player just making his first strides in international cricket to open. Shoaib Malik is our mainstay batsman at No 5.

What did we expect ? It was good enough to beat a poor Zimbabwe and Sri Lanka side but the moment we were up against a quality bowling unit (though this is a second string England attack) we've been found out.

We have to be patient and stick with youngsters like Haris, Rizwan, Babar but this inability to chase any total above 250 has been an ongoing issue. Opponents know how to tie us down.
 
I know Shehzad is a tuk tuk too but he should not be removed from the opener spot. Now they will bring him in the next game and he will fail.
 
Well we have this never dying love for glorified tail enders. Now there is one captaining odi team. Strokeless wonder is to blame here.

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Agreed. Have given up on selections after seeing how Fawad and others have been treated.

Never any consistency and seldom any proper chances given to a player.

Now a bunch of random players are getting selected, and getting a few games here and there.


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Maqsood should play ODI cricket, he adds a lot to Pakistan one dimensional batting line up. Not a single hitter in our side, we need one.
 
Idiotic call to move Babar up at the top when he played splendidly in the middle order.

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saeed-sohail said:
Idiotic call to move Babar up at the top when he played splendidly in the middle order.

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Its one game You cant judge anything in one game The management and fans need to be patient These guys are young and will not perform in every game

Doesnt babar open back in pakistan anyway?
 
Batting line-up all wrong!!!

Babar Azam played well in the middle-order but we move him up the order against the moving ball while we have Shehzad sitting on the sidelines.

We are 2 down for nothing and send in the debutant instead of Malik or Rizwan fronting up.

Poor decision making by the management.
 
Markhor said:
We selected a player with a List A average of 34 to bat at No 4. We chose a player just making his first strides in international cricket to open. Shoaib Malik is our mainstay batsman at No 5.

What did we expect ? It was good enough to beat a poor Zimbabwe and Sri Lanka side but the moment we were up against a quality bowling unit (though this is a second string England attack) we've been found out.

We have to be patient and stick with youngsters like Haris, Rizwan, Babar but this inability to chase any total above 250 has been an ongoing issue. Opponents know how to tie us down.
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That's not the issue - Asad averages 55 at 3 in List A. 34 is not a bad average if the approach is right - Sehwag averages 33 in ODI....

This is absolute looser mentality, I am sorry for the word. Like PAK team management, I am sure PAK media is similar - today, if PAK went after the target & got out for say 184 in 35 overs, I am sure lots of "Pundits" would have taken out up to underwear of every player for such a big loss. These team is playing always to prove themselves decent - play safe & lose by 10% margin, you are good for the effort.

I bet, Javed or MoYo or Qadir will bash Babar for getting early & chances are high that they 'll have little against Azhar's approach. That '92 WC is still hurting PAK team.
 
lol there is another thread claiming this is the ideal batting lineup/order!
 
Well, for a start we have no firepower and no players good against the moving ball. We have firepower in the likes of Umar and Maqsood but they aren't reliable (sucks because Umar can do well against good attacks+movement like he showed against Australia) and Haris is injured.

Azhar is captain so we can't drop him even if he is doing bad like he is now.

Rizwan and Sarfraz are capable but Malik and Hafeez + Iftikhar are lost against movement whether it's 150kph or 125kph, Azhar can play it but no aggressively and so he ends up getting out due to all the pressure. Sarfraz is keen on giving his wicket away and Rizwan struggles against spin. So we have quite a few weaknesses.
 
People need to calm down. It's just one match. We won the first one and also won the test series without losing a game. So what if we lose one match? We can't win every single match. People need to stop overreacting after just one defeat.
 
MMHS said:
That's not the issue - Asad averages 55 at 3 in List A. 34 is not a bad average if the approach is right - Sehwag averages 33 in ODI....
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That's a fair point, same with Jayasuriya whose ODI average doesn't reflect his unbelievable matchwinning ability. But Iftikhar Ahmed is not on that level, one would at least expect some glimpses of that positive approach you're speaking of but it was an unbelievably timid innings.

This is absolute looser mentality, I am sorry for the word. Like PAK team management, I am sure PAK media is similar - today, if PAK went after the target & got out for say 184 in 35 overs, I am sure lots of "Pundits" would have taken out up to underwear of every player for such a big loss. These team is playing always to prove themselves decent - play safe & lose by 10% margin, you are good for the effort.

I bet, Javed or MoYo or Qadir will bash Babar for getting early & chances are high that they 'll have little against Azhar's approach. That '92 WC is still hurting PAK team.
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Our ODI cricket is still stuck in the 1980s and 1990s, our batting hasn't evolved and its too easy to for opponents to work us out. Its an all too familiar routine vs PAK - take early wickets, then tuk tuk follows in middle overs, players get out in an attempt to relieve the pressure and then everything is left to the final few overs when we rely on individual brilliance to bail us out.

The only time we've successfully chased a big score in Abu Dhabi was when Abdul Razzaq hit that hundred off 72 balls back in 2010 vs SA - but you can't expect those once in a blue moon performances every time. We should have our most dynamic batsmen first up so we can get off to a good start and then have these accumulator type players in the middle order. We desperately lack batsmen with controlled aggression.

I look back to that 1996 WC QF vs India which yes we ultimately lost but look how well our openers in Saeed Anwar and Aamer Sohail did in a big pressure chase. We were 84-1 after 10 and 113-2 after 15. Our middle order was poor that night but our openers set us up perfectly. I've never seen such a brilliant display of clean hitting by our openers since.

Now unless we're playing a rank minnow - we can only dream of 80-90+ in the first 10 overs against decent bowling attacks. I accept under lights in UAE its not easy, its harder to time the ball which doesn't come easily onto the bat but for god's sake its no minefield. What'll be our approach on wickets more benign for the bowlers next year ?
 
If Iftikhar would have been demoted down the order, people would be claiming that the management is destroying his confidence and not giving him opportunity up the order.
 
Ah the good old wrist slitters, ha. No signs of you when the team was winning, one bad performance and you guys come crawling out.

We haven't lost the match yet and 3 more matches to go in the series. Put the knives down and calm the hell down.
 
Man what a bunch of kids. There was a thread about Babar opening the batting right after 1st ODI and now you have threads about how he should never be opening.

Pakistan cricket reflects its fans right now. Confused. Muddled.

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octavian said:
Ah the good old wrist slitters, ha. No signs of you when the team was winning, one bad performance and you guys come crawling out.

We haven't lost the match yet and 3 more matches to go in the series. Put the knives down and calm the hell down.
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It is a 4 match series, which is quite stupid.

This one is gone, so basically the match on Tuesday now is a must win.
 
[MENTION=57576]MRSN[/MENTION] I think I told you before to not quote me again because you are on my ignore list. I've no time for your shitty posts.
 
octavian said:
Ah the good old wrist slitters, ha. No signs of you when the team was winning, one bad performance and you guys come crawling out.

We haven't lost the match yet and 3 more matches to go in the series. Put the knives down and calm the hell down.
Click to expand...

Yes hell pak may even win the series but the way they are palying against fast bowlers or should i say medium trundlers bowling around130 they are struggling and their approach is pathetic against them . Thats the problem .
We may win the series by batting first next games or another bowler show if eng bat first. But the point is batting is pathetic to say the least against. Moving ball .
And no powerhitter who can scare **** out of bowler atleast for some time like afridi use to .
 
The cricket enthusiast said:
Yes hell pak may even win the series but the way they are palying against fast bowlers or should i say medium trundlers bowling around130 they are struggling and their approach is pathetic against them . Thats the problem .
We may win the series by batting first next games or another bowler show if eng bat first. But the point is batting is pathetic to say the least against. Moving ball .
And no powerhitter who can scare **** out of bowler atleast for some time like afridi use to .
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The batting is an issue, no one is denying that. But the overreaction here is quite funny. Some people sound like they need to be put on suicide watch.

Our batting has been an issue for a long time. This team is very young, they need to be some time. At least wait and watch for one complete series.
 
Swap Safaraz with Iftikhar and they may have had a better shot at match. Safaraz plays well at 4, could have been a good counter-attacking foil with Azhar at that stage, rather than Iftikhar and Malik.
 
Shehzad should have came in I agree. I think Shehzad is being hard-done here, even it the test series I remember Amir Sohail totally forgot about him when the Englishmen asked him who Pakistan can replace Masood with.

Azhar is a walking wicket and this is not good at all.
 
Shehzad has been glued to the bench like anything. Based on social justice, give the poor guy a game here.
 
I don't get this fuss about Babar Azam; after the last game everyone wanted him to be promoted.

And after he failed after being promoted, the knives are out on the management.

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octavian said:
Have those anti-depressants ready doc, in case we lose on Thursday.
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I am mentally prepared for it, getting mauled in ODIs in the UAE is standard procedure for us, but this England attack is nothing. A tremendous opportunity for us to take it 3-1 and improve our rankings.
 
The_KING said:
People need to calm down. It's just one match. We won the first one and also won the test series without losing a game. So what if we lose one match? We can't win every single match. People need to stop overreacting after just one defeat.
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It's the fact that this is the only time where there was good In and Out swing and guess what happened? Our so called set, new and improved, spoiled for choices Pakistan ODI team crumbles.
 
Mamoon said:
I am mentally prepared for it, getting mauled in ODIs in the UAE is standard procedure for us, but this England attack is nothing. A tremendous opportunity for us to take it 3-1 and improve our rankings.
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Losing 22 out of 37 ODIs against the top sides since making the UAE our home since 2010 tells its own story.

In that time we've won 2 out of 8 series, both against Sri Lanka. This'll be 23 out of 38. Granted we have a young team now and there are many new players - they must be persisted with and given a chance. Undoubtedly there have been improvements, especially in fielding and credit must be given to Waqar and the staff for that.

However the batting is same old Pakistan, especially with 250+ run chases and its somewhat alarming at the first half-decent bowling attack we face we've crumbled. Clearly in Test series this is Fortress UAE. But in ODIs its not so much a fortress but a mud hut. Is it any surprise we barely squeaked into qualifying for the Champions Trophy and are No.8 in the rankings ? Victories against a poor Zimbabwe and Sri Lanka side shouldn't paper over the cracks.

Its not a knee jerk reaction given the trend over the last 5 years.
 
Looks like some people are unaware of how awful we have been in ODIs in the UAE, and it has of course nothing to do with the Test results.

Since 2009, we have only defeated Sri Lanka here, and have lost to Australia (3 times) and NZ and SA twice.

Also lost to England in 2012.

What's the logic is saying that we can't win every game and we just won the Test series?
 
Markhor said:
Losing 22 out of 37 ODIs against the top sides since making the UAE our home since 2010 tells its own story.

In that time we've won 2 out of 8 series, both against Sri Lanka. This'll be 23 out of 38. Granted we have a young team now and there are many new players - they must be persisted with and given a chance. Undoubtedly there have been improvements, especially in fielding and credit must be given to Waqar and the staff for that.

However the batting is same old Pakistan, especially with 250+ run chases and its somewhat alarming at the first half-decent bowling attack we face we've crumbled. Clearly in Test series this is Fortress UAE. But in ODIs its not so much a fortress but a mud hut. Is it any surprise we barely squeaked into qualifying for the Champions Trophy and are No.8 in the rankings ? Victories against a poor Zimbabwe and Sri Lanka side shouldn't paper over the cracks.

Its not a knee jerk reaction given the trend over the last 5 years.
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Yeah, that is what I just addressed in #32.

We have been a minnow ODI team in the UAE and that is precisely why we are ranked 8th, even though we won the Asia Cup in 2012 and won in India, SA and WI in 2013.
 
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Many wrong decisions were made today. Opening with Babar Azam, inclusion of Iftikhar instead of a proper batsman , are the two major ones. But this teams can be good if managed properly. Let's hope the management learns from this.
 
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WC-Passion said:
It's the fact that this is the only time where there was good In and Out swing and guess what happened? Our so called set, new and improved, spoiled for choices Pakistan ODI team crumbles.
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Relax bro. The likes of Babar Azam are young and should be given more chances at the top of the order. I'll sure he will come back. The big worry is Azhar's batting form.
 
Azhar Ali went missing today! That was the main negative thing! He usually starts off aggressively with a good intent and that inspires others as well! But today that was missing in him! Strange !
 
The_KING said:
Relax bro. The likes of Babar Azam are young and should be given more chances at the top of the order. I'll sure he will come back. The big worry is Azhar's batting form.
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Need to get back Imad and Haris and rid of players like Malik and Anwar Ali. After some recent performances I have a soft spot for Anwar but still I think Amir Yamin is better and has more potential.

Haris and Imad look to be good batsmen and decent (or good in Imad's case) bowlers so I think they need to be in ASAP.
 
We need to change our top order. Keep the batting line up the same for next match but open with Hafeez instead. Babar Azam and Iftikhar Ahmed are too inexperienced so we need Malik at 3 I guess. The order should be something like
1) Azhar Ali
2) Mohammad Hafeez
3) Shoaib Malik
4) Babar Azam
5) Sarfraz - after his good performance today
6) Iftikhar Ahmed
7) Mohammad Rizwan
8) Anwar Ali - showed today he can bat
9) Wahab Riaz
10) Zafar Gohar - in for Yasir unless he makes up for his bowling today with the bat.
11) Mohammad Irfan

An order like this is better because there is a good balance of experience and youth

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WC-Passion said:
Need to get back Imad and Haris and rid of players like Malik and Anwar Ali. After some recent performances I have a soft spot for Anwar but still I think Amir Yamin is better and has more potential.

Haris and Imad look to be good batsmen and decent (or good in Imad's case) bowlers so I think they need to be in ASAP.
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I agree that Imad and Haris should be brought back. I don't rate Anwar at all but he has been performing well recently so it would be harsh to drop him. Malik's purple patch is over and as much as I like Hafeez, we all know about his weaknesses against new ball so I think it's time we replace him.
 
The_KING said:
I agree that Imad and Haris should be brought back. I don't rate Anwar at all but he has been performing well recently so it would be harsh to drop him. Malik's purple patch is over and as much as I like Hafeez, we all know about his weaknesses against new ball so I think it's time we replace him.
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Amir Yamin was dropped after a 62 under pressure for Anwar Ali, don't you think that's "harsh" when Anwar Ali is mediocre everywhere but his fielding?
 
WC-Passion said:
Amir Yamin was dropped after a 62 under pressure for Anwar Ali, don't you think that's "harsh" when Anwar Ali is mediocre everywhere but his fielding?
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That's true. But we can't play both of them in the starting 11 can we? But I do agree that Yamin should have never been dropped.
 
karachiite said:
Babar Azam played well in the middle-order but we move him up the order against the moving ball while we have Shehzad sitting on the sidelines.

We are 2 down for nothing and send in the debutant instead of Malik or Rizwan fronting up.

Poor decision making by the management
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.
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this is where things went wrong.... Malik should have been sent after hafeez' wicket... sending a debutant at 10-2 and senior batsmen sitting in the bench is not acceptable...
 
PAK lost by 96 runs in 45 overs - team 'll get lots of bashing. But, had PAK lost by 96 runs in 35 overs - the whole sky over PAK would have fallen throw Javed & Qadir & ...'s mouth - who wants to bet with me?

I have seen recently, PAK players celebrating 50 like 150 - it's not only because 100s are rare for PAK players, but also due to still living 30 years back. Once Javed had 10 consecutive 50s in ODI & PAK won probably 8 of those 10 - those days a 50 was probably something close to a hundred these days. Still PAK players (more the management) believe that a 80 ball 50 in top 3 'll set a nice platform for a match winning score of 245/9.
 
Mamoon said:
Shehzad has been glued to the bench like anything. Based on social justice, give the poor guy a game here.
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I thought I'd never live to see the day when Mamoon advocates for Shehzad's selection
 
Syed1 said:
I thought I'd never live to see the day when Mamoon advocates for Shehzad's selection
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I just feel sorry for him. I must say that I was quite moved by Younis Khan tears that day as he walked back to the pavilion for the last time in a green shirt.

Sometimes you have to put cricket aside and think at a personal level. It is not nice for anyone including Shehzad to be treated like this.
 
saeed-sohail said:
We aren't winning this series mark my words

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pak can.. the problem is due to fans uproar the mgmt tries a new batting order every match..

sarfaraz was batting at no.4 in the srilanka tour, even babar was batting at no.4, now the debutant was asked to bat at no.4... won an away series in srilanka and zimbabwe... still unsettled...
 
Usman Chadda said:
Man what a bunch of kids. There was a thread about Babar opening the batting right after 1st ODI and now you have threads about how he should never be opening.

Pakistan cricket reflects its fans right now. Confused. Muddled.

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Spot on! Many were advocating for Babar to move up the order and how the management will destroy him by playing down. One of them even said that Pakistan is going to miss something big and special if Babar Azam is not played as an opener soon. I hope he turns out good but the way the atmosphere and opinions are so different before and after failed performances here on PP, it does bring the words muddled and confused in my mind.
 
Fans need to reassure their thinking:

The team is a world class after a win

The team is a minnow when we lose.

Nothing inbetween :facepalm:
 
saeed-sohail said:
What's going on? Are we playing on a fast Waca track against Ambrose Donald and Styen? This is the worst batting approach from Pakistan ever on a Sub Continent type track facing 75mph trundlers. They let the bowlers settle by unnecessary tuk tuk. There is no intent whatsoever despite chasing 284.

Captain is on the crease but no change in strategy. Where is experienced Waqar in all this?

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Intent or no Intent the batting is very spineless. there is no solid batsman in the middle. Silly to make Babar Azam open when he did so well in the middle order. Shoaib Malik was scoring in the Middle now he seems to have lost his form (not a good sign, last time he lost form it took 5 years to come back). Failing regularly since his double ton. Beating Zimbabwe in Odi's don't count for much.
 
Weve been a mediocre and pathetic ODI team for about 12 years now! nothing is ever going to change until we change the mentality 1st of playing ODI cricket in particularly the bat. Our bowling is competative, our fielding is pretty decent now.

However the batting just looks clueless and no direction at all. We try and be aggresive at top of the order and we pick a village 3rd x1 Hack to open and act as a pinch hitter and in this game we try and just plod along with with no aggresion.

We actually do have some pretty decent batsmen in Hafeez, rizwan, sirfraz, Babar azam etc.. but as per usual the managment and captain just use them in the wrong positions. For me Hafeez or Sarfraz needs to be opening the inns, Rizwan batting at 4, Babar at 5 with ideally players like maqsood and umar akmal providing the fireworks down the order but we just always seem to get selections wrong compared to players we an actaully call upon to pick and play.
 
Eagle_Eye said:
First game they included a club level off spinner and hack to open the innings. Today they replaced him with a guy who is marginally better with the ball and bat but still way off the international standard to go and bat 4.

Is the cupboard this bare in FC? These guys are barely above minnow standards.

These are utterly shocking selections and batting orders.
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There is no WC around the corner and they've just won the test series where at at least 3 of the batsmen are not in the odi squad

Who would you rather play, dogar and Faisal Iqbal?

They've already done better than they did 4/5 years ago
 
Mamoon said:
I just feel sorry for him. I must say that I was quite moved by Younis Khan tears that day as he walked back to the pavilion for the last time in a green shirt.

Sometimes you have to put cricket aside and think at a personal level. It is not nice for anyone including Shehzad to be treated like this.
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I agree. It was pretty shocking to not only see Shehzad not picked in any of the tests (when Masood was terrible) but he was also totally disregarded and forgotten by Aamer Sohail on The Verdict when the Englishmen asked who Pakistan could replace Masood with.

If I was Shehzad I wouldn't be very happy. He's done nothing to not get a game in a test series in the UAE especially when one of our openers fail.
 
Just reward domestic top performers. Might help Pak to move into the right direction. Less risk and players in form.
 
The think tank is thinking incorrectly about some players who are not being selected.

Open-mind and chances needed.
 
Saj said:
The think tank is thinking incorrectly about some players who are not being selected.

Open-mind and chances needed.
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Mickey Arthur is to blame here. Did not select the spinners i.e. Asghar and Bilal Asif the selectors provided to him for the Sri Lanka series. Did not select Saad Ali against NZ even though the selectors provided him to him and did not select Abid Ali for the tour of SA even though the selectors gave him that option.
 
Chokli said:
haha should stick to t20s now.
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Even the "we are the best in T20s" drama is going to end soon. In fact, it will end tomorrow if BCCI agrees to a T20 series anywhere in the world.
 
Mamoon said:
Even the "we are the best in T20s" drama is going to end soon. In fact, it will end tomorrow if BCCI agrees to a T20 series anywhere in the world.
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I don't think Pakistan are even a top 4 T20I side because the batting is filled with accumulators that will struggle against sides who field a full strength XI in high scoring contests - thus the acid test will be in the next WT20.

In bilaterals T20Is you'll only see Pakistan play their best side even against the likes of World XI, B teams of WI & SL, Zimbabwe, Ireland, Scotland et al. This shows this number 1 ranking is meaningless as it gets.
 
topspin said:
I don't think Pakistan are even a top 4 T20I side because the batting is filled with accumulators that will struggle against sides who field a full strength XI in high scoring contests - thus the acid test will be in the next WT20.

In bilaterals T20Is you'll only see Pakistan play their best side even against the likes of World XI, B teams of WI & SL, Zimbabwe, Ireland, Scotland et al. This shows this number 1 ranking is meaningless as it gets.
Click to expand...

Totally agree.
 
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