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The recipe for disaster, Pakistan's current T20 batting lineup is just too pedestrian for an explosive format

The Bald Eagle

The Bald Eagle

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PCT have almost 3 accumulators in top 4 in shape of Babar Azam, Mohammad Rizwan and Usman Khan. So at the moment it looks more like an accumulator's paradise rather than an explosive unit. Today we wasted more than 12 overs to chase down a miserly target of 91 while many times around the world score more than this sum just in the powerplay. So instead of going with all guns blazing at the start, we are stuck with accumulator specialists.

This silly approach would be too inimical for Pakistan in the upcoming T20 World Cup. So instead of pleasing a few players at top, the management needs to factor in the team's ultimate glory and for that we need to scrap this awful batting line up.
 
The Bald Eagle said:
PCT have almost 3 accumulators in top 4 in shape of Babar Azam, Mohammad Rizwan and Usman Khan. So at the moment it looks more like an accumulator's paradise rather than an explosive unit. Today we wasted more than 12 overs to chase down a miserly target of 91 while many times around the world score more than this sum just in the powerplay. So instead of going with all guns blazing at the start, we are stuck with accumulator specialists.

This silly approach would be too inimical for Pakistan in the upcoming T20 World Cup. So instead of pleasing a few players at top, the management needs to factor in the team's ultimate glory and for that we need to scrap this awful batting line up.
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Well for UK maybe give him a few more games, it was his debut innings today.

The issue is everything, Saim can't kick off, he was poor in the emerging acc asia cup even though every team was filled with 18-22 year old youngsters who are all club level and aren't even in India's Z string, yes I repeat Z string.

Babar and rizwan are way too slow, Babar can't read spin, rizwan struggles against inside angles cause he's a legside hack, dude got dismissed 3x today lol, but got lucky with the lbw and 2 up in the air catches that landed safely.

Irfan is useless and can't read sodhi level spinners.

Whole team sucks.
 
This series ought to serve as a platform to assess the capabilities of our young batting lineup. While it's expected that they may stumble, it's through these challenges that we pinpoint their weaknesses and push them to improve, ensuring they're prepared for the upcoming World Cup. However, instead of prioritizing this crucial developmental phase, the senior players seem intent on participating in every match. Ideally, it would have been more beneficial to pit the young talents of New Zealand against those of Pakistan, especially considering the absence of organized A tours.
 
i'm not expecting saim to open with usman and hit a 17 ball 50 they are bound to fail but its these sort of series we need to give them opportunities in to identify their weakness and improve on any deficiencies they have. but all these rizbar cult followers turn this into rizwan vs saim
 
I don't think its that bad. But I am not convinced about Usman Khan. I think you can easily slot Imad or Shadab at 5/6 instead and play the extra bowler.
 
This is more or less the best batting Pakistan has right now. I would have put Mohammad Haris in there but his lack of recent form has ruled him out. Also, I would rather take Rizwan at 3 and Babar opening, or vice-versa, rather than having both of them open the batting again.
 
Accumulators in other teams get forced out because the batsmen around them perform so well that they are liabilities.

In our team that doesn’t happen. The new guys/rest don’t even put out average performance let alone making Babar and Rizwan look bad. At the moment their sr is no difference and their averages are terrible.

All we can keeping doing is trying out players hoping eventually they will prove as some sort of competition to these two. Then these two will be naturally replaced or shifted around the order to maximise the performance of our new best batsmen in the team.
 
The reason why Babar and Rizwan keep surviving is because the likes of Saim, Fakhar, Usman e.t.c do not perform consistently. If your aggressive batters go missing in 4 out of 5 innings, you need consistent accumulators who will atleast score runs and put runs on the board. Pakistan's batting quality and stocks are abysmal in comparison to India.
 
ads101 said:
Accumulators in other teams get forced out because the batsmen around them perform so well that they are liabilities.

In our team that doesn’t happen. The new guys/rest don’t even put out average performance let alone making Babar and Rizwan look bad. At the moment their sr is no difference and their averages are terrible.

All we can keeping doing is trying out players hoping eventually they will prove as some sort of competition to these two. Then these two will be naturally replaced or shifted around the order to maximise the performance of our new best batsmen in the team.
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if these 2 sort their act out we don't even need to try anyone, how difficult is it to understand how power plays work.
 
If Pakistan bowling is anything like what we saw in world cup , it is going to be very bad for Pakistan.
 
emranabbas said:
if these 2 sort their act out we don't even need to try anyone, how difficult is it to understand how power plays work.
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If these two try striking at 150 SR they will get out. They are flawed. Also given that you can not rely on the other inconsistent batsmen, that just isn’t an option.

The problem is the rest try striking at 130. And they get out too. At least Babar and Rizwan can play reliably at that SR.

These two have worked out how to rotate strike and reliably get runs that way. This is an asset our better hitters have not worked out how to do and hence struggle because there are no easy runs on display. Simply going out and trying to smash every ball doesn’t work in internationals the same as it does in domestic league. And in the same way Babar and Rizwan will never have really high SRs because they lack power game.

The top batsmen that we compare them to from other countries hit big and rotate strike (even if in some cases the latter they don’t do this as efficiently as Rizwan and Babar do).

We’re screwed either way unfortunately. But the thing I really disagree is that Rizwan and Babar are to blame for failures of others. I just don’t think they are.
 
That's why we need to bat first and challenge ourselves to score 200.

But that won't happen. Pakistan is playing to win the series safely.
 
mominsaigol said:
Yes clearly we reached the 2022 final thanks to babar and rizwan, it was their batting that carried us through. Great insight. (Hope you can detect sarcasm)
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Bro this guy was arguing India should drop Kohli and Sharma, go for young guns but he recons Babar and Rizwan are annihilating for us
 
mominsaigol said:
Well for UK maybe give him a few more games, it was his debut innings today.

The issue is everything, Saim can't kick off, he was poor in the emerging acc asia cup even though every team was filled with 18-22 year old youngsters who are all club level and aren't even in India's Z string, yes I repeat Z string.

Babar and rizwan are way too slow, Babar can't read spin, rizwan struggles against inside angles cause he's a legside hack, dude got dismissed 3x today lol, but got lucky with the lbw and 2 up in the air catches that landed safely.

Irfan is useless and can't read sodhi level spinners.

Whole team sucks.
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Lol what are you talking about
Rayan parag, abhishek sharma, hardhit Rana, sai sudharshan, druv jurel and even Hangargekar are all considered top level talents in India. All playing IPL and doing well. Stop downplaying that performance with misinformed posts.
 
Savak said:
The reason why Babar and Rizwan keep surviving is because the likes of Saim, Fakhar, Usman e.t.c do not perform consistently. If your aggressive batters go missing in 4 out of 5 innings, you need consistent accumulators who will atleast score runs and put runs on the board. Pakistan's batting quality and stocks are abysmal in comparison to India.
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And the reason they don't perform consistently is because they play high-risk cricket. You can't have it both ways.

And are you seriously saying that Babar and Rizwan are not consistent? They might arguably be the two most consistent T20I batters in the world.

I get the criticism on their scoring rate but calling our batting stocks ''abysmal'' is a massive over-exaggeration. We are not the best team in the world, but we are not that bad either. This team is more than capable of a semi-final berth. Beyond that, its all about how well you can handle pressure and turn up on the day.
 
Energy said:
That's why we need to bat first and challenge ourselves to score 200.

But that won't happen. Pakistan is playing to win the series safely.
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Just try the explosive combo here rather than facing the humiliation later in WC T20 2024.
 
Travis Head 50 off 16 as an opener

Fraser McGurk must have hit a 50 in 15 balls too.

What’s the excuse at Pindi against a NZ C team? Is the ground too small? Are the bowlers too good?
 
JattMaula said:
Pakistan have reached a semi and a final with these batters.

Haters will hate but Bobby and Rizzler will annihilate! :rizwan
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Flukes never occur again and again. In 2021 Bab-Riz were really explosive but since then they have been average.
 
Pakistan Batting has never evolved since 2009. While the rest of the world have power hitters at any level. This is a big difference in setting and chasing a big score.
 
The Bald Eagle said:
Against India encounter 152-0. 100 times better than how bad they were in 2022 against the same side in MCG.
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They got 152 in the 19th over I believe

Explosive is a strong word when used for T20 openers. Warner, DeQock,Roy, Butler, Marsh, Sharma etc these are explosive players. Not these run a ball merchants lol
 
Tad unfair to club Usman Khan with Babar and Rizwan when he literally played his first match for Pakistan and has a superior strike rate in t20 showing he is not just an accumulator batsman. Rest, i agree and people like me have constantly spoken about that. But folks here want the worst t20 batsman in our team to captain the team. I hope those people are happy now..
 
Energy said:
That's why we need to bat first and challenge ourselves to score 200.

But that won't happen. Pakistan is playing to win the series safely.
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The fact that Babar chose to field shows his lack of sincerity in actually trying out the bench strength. Honesty, nothing has changed and it was foolish to expect a guy who was absolute rubbish as a captain just few months ago to somehow become Imran khan level captain in his second stint without any reasonable basis.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
I don't think its that bad. But I am not convinced about Usman Khan. I think you can easily slot Imad or Shadab at 5/6 instead and play the extra bowler.
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Not convinced about Usman Khan after one match yet supports the likes of Rizwan and Babar after constant failures vehemently. Amazing!
 
Slim said:
Not convinced about Usman Khan after one match yet supports the likes of Rizwan and Babar after constant failures vehemently. Amazing!
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How many times have Babar and Rizwan succeeded? You're out of your depth if you think Babar and Rizwan aren't among the best T20I batters in the world.

Oh and FYI I'm not convinced about Usman Khan because he's a spin-basher whose lack of ability against short-pitched bowling was exposed in the PSL. But I am not against the idea of giving him chances to prove himself for Pakistan.
 
Usman still has time to adjust to international cricket. He was supposed to be spin basher but he got out to ISH sodhi. It was a bit unlucky though.

I think this batting lineup is better than many in the past having Shan masood type players in.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
How many times have Babar and Rizwan succeeded? You're out of your depth if you think Babar and Rizwan aren't among the best T20I batters in the world.

Oh and FYI I'm not convinced about Usman Khan because he's a spin-basher whose lack of ability against short-pitched bowling was exposed in the PSL. But I am not against the idea of giving him chances to prove himself for Pakistan.
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Claiming their amongst the best is a bit comedical.

Australian batters exist you know, so does the rest of sena and India
 
mominsaigol said:
Claiming their amongst the best is a bit comedical.

Australian batters exist you know, so does the rest of sena and India
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I'm glad I could make you laugh. But my opinion is based on actual numbers and performances as opposed to my like or dislike for either player.

How many of them average 40+ in T20Is?
 
Babar Azam is merely a statpadder, and it's ironic that he's our T20I captain
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
I'm glad I could make you laugh. But my opinion is based on actual numbers and performances as opposed to my like or dislike for either player.

How many of them average 40+ in T20Is?
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How many of them have played solid teams? Look at the teams we've been playing against?

Look at this NZ team or the nz team sent last year or all the teams we've been playing from 2021 to 2022 onwards?

We struggled against India when 70% of their team was injured. 2022 we were competitive because bumrah, Siraj were put, Dhawan/Rahul were fizzing out, kudleep was injured and they were forced to play with people like chahal and a burnt put bhuvi. Even then the 2 sides were even.

2023 exposed the reality in odi and 2024 will expose the reality to you in t20 when the tournament begins.

Don't look at stats, Stats never tell the whole story, Babar averaged 17 in 2022 t20 when faced against solid bowling. Even yesterday he looked like a virtual tailenders because he's beyond awful against any spinner who can remotely spin.
 
mominsaigol said:
Well for UK maybe give him a few more games, it was his debut innings today.

The issue is everything, Saim can't kick off, he was poor in the emerging acc asia cup even though every team was filled with 18-22 year old youngsters who are all club level and aren't even in India's Z string, yes I repeat Z string.

Babar and rizwan are way too slow, Babar can't read spin, rizwan struggles against inside angles cause he's a legside hack, dude got dismissed 3x today lol, but got lucky with the lbw and 2 up in the air catches that landed safely.

Irfan is useless and can't read sodhi level spinners.

Whole team sucks.
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Why do you exaggerate so much?

Abhishek Sharma, Riyan Parag, Sai Sudharsan etc are club level cricketers? Do you even watch cricket or have a habit of blurting out nonsense on the regular?

Saim will come good eventually, he is the only player in this team capable of playing as good as the above three are playing for their respective IPL teams at the moment.
 
Usman Chadda said:
Why do you exaggerate so much?

Abhishek Sharma, Riyan Parag, Sai Sudharsan etc are club level cricketers? Do you even watch cricket or have a habit of blurting out nonsense on the regular?

Saim will come good eventually, he is the only player in this team capable of playing as good as the above three are playing for their respective IPL teams at the moment.
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Yes they are, they aren't even qualified for India's b string side atm, their not in the pool of 30.

It's been 15 games, today is his 16th, how many games do you want to give him?
 
mominsaigol said:
How many of them have played solid teams? Look at the teams we've been playing against?

Look at this NZ team or the nz team sent last year or all the teams we've been playing from 2021 to 2022 onwards?

We struggled against India when 70% of their team was injured. 2022 we were competitive because bumrah, Siraj were put, Dhawan/Rahul were fizzing out, kudleep was injured and they were forced to play with people like chahal and a burnt put bhuvi. Even then the 2 sides were even.

2023 exposed the reality in odi and 2024 will expose the reality to you in t20 when the tournament begins.

Don't look at stats, Stats never tell the whole story, Babar averaged 17 in 2022 t20 when faced against solid bowling. Even yesterday he looked like a virtual tailenders because he's beyond awful against any spinner who can remotely spin.
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Every player has failures. I'm not saying Babar and Rizwan are the best. But they are definitely among the best. Averaging 40+ with a SR nearing 130 is no joke. Most teams would kill to have a player like Babar or Rizwan in their line-ups. T20 is not all about bashing you need 1-2 players with good conversion rates. They are not perfect and have gone missing in some key matches and that is why they are not the best. But they have delivered in numerous other big ones as well.

Don't look at stats? Aren't you looking at stats yourself when you say that Babar averaged 17 in the T20 World Cup? Stats are cold hard facts. And facts don't care about your feelings. So I feel like I will continue to look at stats. And I am also smart enough to not judge a player like Babar---who is maybe the best batter we have produced in a generation---based on one bad performance against third string NZ.
 
mominsaigol said:
Yes they are, they aren't even qualified for India's b string side atm, their not in the pool of 30.

It's been 15 games, today is his 16th, how many games do you want to give him?
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Are you following the IPL at all?

Riyan Parag and Abhishek Sharma are monster talents that we just do not possess at the moment. Labeling them as ‘Z-listers’ just makes you look clueless.

You want to move on from Saim? Ask other players to perform better than him in PSL or domestic cricket.
 
wheres mohamad haris gone, the only top order player to play aggressively all the time

haris and saim should open every game, if they get out early riz or babar come in and play like openers any way, but if they get a good start pak would be in a great position

alas pak have insecurity of losing wickets, and ull never win anything worrying about your weaknesses before trying to prioritise aggression
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Every player has failures. I'm not saying Babar and Rizwan are the best. But they are definitely among the best. Averaging 40+ with a SR nearing 130 is no joke. Most teams would kill to have a player like Babar or Rizwan in their line-ups. T20 is not all about bashing you need 1-2 players with good conversion rates. They are not perfect and have gone missing in some key matches and that is why they are not the best. But they have delivered in numerous other big ones as well.

Don't look at stats? Aren't you looking at stats yourself when you say that Babar averaged 17 in the T20 World Cup? Stats are cold hard facts. And facts don't care about your feelings. So I feel like I will continue to look at stats. And I am also smart enough to not judge a player like Babar---who is maybe the best batter we have produced in a generation---based on one bad performance against third string NZ.
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By don't look at stats I meant not overall stats like you're doing, because looking at an entire picture rather then analysing its bits and pieces doesn't tell you anything.

Babar and rizwan both use to avg 50 in this format, their avg dropped to 40 after those 2 failures. And it'll drop further once the tournament comes in.

No team would kill to have a player like babar and rizwan, these 2 went unsold In the 100, if teams wanted to kill for these 2, they'd be playing the 100 and would get sold easily.

Look at individual stats. Look at babar's stats against rashid Khan or mujeeb or his stats against kuldeep, pandya etc. Look at his stats against PROPER BOWLERS, and you'll see how low they are.

Obviously if you look at their stats overall you'll miss the clown level bowlers that have bowled. Their stats have been massively inflated due to those 200 chases against West Indies and a c string sa. Players like Marco jansen walk all over these 2.
 
Usman Chadda said:
Are you following the IPL at all?

Riyan Parag and Abhishek Sharma are monster talents that we just do not possess at the moment. Labeling them as ‘Z-listers’ just makes you look clueless.

You want to move on from Saim? Ask other players to perform better than him in PSL or domestic cricket.
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Yes because those monster talents managed to best a b string international side and only lost to us in the final due to india's classic chocking tag.

Indian players are in a class of their own, that doesn't mean that their going to get selected.

Pakistan would gladly take someone like unmakt chand and he'd be our superstar but for India he was a loser who had to run away to USA to make a fortune.

Edit: First of he's an opener in psl so he'll score more then middle order bats, secondly he failed In the emerging acc cup, failed in every international game. Psl means nothing when shadab is a psl legend or azam is a goat
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Averaging 40+ with a SR nearing 130 is no joke. Most teams would kill to have a player like Babar or Rizwan in their line-ups
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Having a strike rate in the 120s which both bobby and riz do despite playing in the powerplay is absolutely pathetic.

This strike is lower in t20 wcs, babar at 114 and riz at 120.

No top team would want them as openers, averages don't mean much in t20s
 
mominsaigol said:
By don't look at stats I meant not overall stats like you're doing, because looking at an entire picture rather then analysing its bits and pieces doesn't tell you anything.

Babar and rizwan both use to avg 50 in this format, their avg dropped to 40 after those 2 failures. And it'll drop further once the tournament comes in.

No team would kill to have a player like babar and rizwan, these 2 went unsold In the 100, if teams wanted to kill for these 2, they'd be playing the 100 and would get sold easily.

Look at individual stats. Look at babar's stats against rashid Khan or mujeeb or his stats against kuldeep, pandya etc. Look at his stats against PROPER BOWLERS, and you'll see how low they are.

Obviously if you look at their stats overall you'll miss the clown level bowlers that have bowled. Their stats have been massively inflated due to those 200 chases against West Indies and a c string sa. Players like Marco jansen walk all over these 2.
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Just about every T20 team in the world except maybe South Africa has atleast one anchor. And most of them are not better than Babar and Rizwan. Their numbers are inflated. But I don't see how they can be blamed for scoring runs. And they have scored runs in big matches too like the 2022 World Cup semi-final, 2021 India match, 2021 Afghanistan match. Again. they can't be blamed for playing just 2 T20 World Cups. It's easy to point fingers at Babar and Rizwan. Less easy to introspect and think of a solution better than them or see how they fit into the grander scheme of things. Pakistan is not South Africa where you have hitters up and down the order. But the bowling is good enough to restrict teams to totals of 160 or below consistently and even defend such totals. They could improve their SR and especially their SR against spin, but Pakistan could be doing a whole lot worse than Babar and Rizwan.
 
Statpadder Inc said:
Having a strike rate in the 120s which both bobby and riz do despite playing in the powerplay is absolutely pathetic.

This strike is lower in t20 wcs, babar at 114 and riz at 120.

No top team would want them as openers, averages don't mean much in t20s
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They had one bad World Cup bro. In the 2021 T20 World Cup Babar was the leading run-scorer and Rizwan was No.3. Their batting carried us to the semi-finals. Averages do mean something in T20Is if you are batting in the top order.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Just about every T20 team in the world except maybe South Africa has atleast one anchor. And most of them are not better than Babar and Rizwan. Their numbers are inflated. But I don't see how they can be blamed for scoring runs. And they have scored runs in big matches too like the 2022 World Cup semi-final, 2021 India match, 2021 Afghanistan match. Again. they can't be blamed for playing just 2 T20 World Cups. It's easy to point fingers at Babar and Rizwan. Less easy to introspect and think of a solution better than them or see how they fit into the grander scheme of things. Pakistan is not South Africa where you have hitters up and down the order. But the bowling is good enough to restrict teams to totals of 160 or below consistently and even defend such totals. They could improve their SR and especially their SR against spin, but Pakistan could be doing a whole lot worse than Babar and Rizwan.
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I think the whole team is poor, not just babar and rizwan.

Who are these anchors? In every team according to you? Anchors are fine, but Anchors don't exactly have a 120 sr either. But again who are these Anchors? Cause I guarantee the names you list, all these players will have a 4th and 5th gear.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
They had one bad World Cup bro. In the 2021 T20 World Cup Babar was the leading run-scorer and Rizwan was No.3. Their batting carried us to the semi-finals. Averages do mean something in T20Is if you are batting in the top order.
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Strike rates are far more important in t20s than averages, finn allen only averages 26 in t20s but I would take him above rizbar anyday.

A 20(10) will always be far more valuable than a 50(40)
 
mominsaigol said:
I think the whole team is poor, not just babar and rizwan.

Who are these anchors? In every team according to you? Anchors are fine, but Anchors don't exactly have a 120 sr either. But again who are these Anchors? Cause I guarantee the names you list, all these players will have a 4th and 5th gear.
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Well you're entitled to your opinion. But I think you're wrong. A team that makes semi-finals and finals in two back to back T20 World Cups cannot be considered a poor T20 team.

You want me to list them one by one? Okay, New Zealand has Kane Williamson. England have Malan. Australia have Steve Smith, West Indies have Shai Hope. Afghanistan have Ibrahim Zadran. Bangladesh have Shanto. Go and look at all these players and their numbers and tell me that they are better than Babar and Rizwan.
 
mominsaigol said:
I think the whole team is poor, not just babar and rizwan.

Who are these anchors? In every team according to you? Anchors are fine, but Anchors don't exactly have a 120 sr either. But again who are these Anchors? Cause I guarantee the names you list, all these players will have a 4th and 5th gear.
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And saying Babar and Rizwan don't have a fourth fifth gear is ridiculous. Babar can destroy bowling attacks just by hitting great cricket shots when he gets set. And though Rizwan is limited he too can let loose once he is set.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
And saying Babar and Rizwan don't have a fourth fifth gear is ridiculous. Babar can destroy bowling attacks just by hitting great cricket shots when he gets set. And though Rizwan is limited he too can let loose once he is set.
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Rizwan was very well set in the Asia cup final against SL…

I mean he really let loose there didn’t he?
 
Statpadder Inc said:
Strike rates are far more important in t20s than averages, finn allen only averages 26 in t20s but I would take him above rizbar anyday.

A 20(10) will always be far more valuable than a 50(40)
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Not really. Depends on where you are batting and what is the situation of the match. In a high-pressure match where the opposition team bowlers are making 150 difficult to chase, a 50(40) can end up being more useful than a 20(10).
 
Rana said:
Rizwan was very well set in the Asia cup final against SL…

I mean he really let loose there didn’t he?
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I think you need to find a new hobby. Its been 4 years. Your obsession with Rizwan is starting to bordering on sad and pathetic.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
I think you need to find a new hobby. Its been 4 years. Your obsession with Rizwan is starting to bordering on sad and pathetic.
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Well I think you need to come out of this guise of..


‘Starting off by being impartial when criticising Babar and Rizwan but then slowly showing your true colours and coming out in full support of them’.
 
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Rana said:
Well I think you need to come out of this guise of..


‘Starting off by being impartial when criticising Babar and Rizwan but then slowly showing your true colours and coming out in full support of them’.
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Unlike yourself and may other posters here I am not driven by agendas towards certain players. I have the common sense to call out Babar and Rizwan's flaws, while being mindful of the fact that Babar, Rizwan, Shaheen and Naseem are four of the most important players to Pakistan cricket's present and future.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Well you're entitled to your opinion. But I think you're wrong. A team that makes semi-finals and finals in two back to back T20 World Cups cannot be considered a poor T20 team.

You want me to list them one by one? Okay, New Zealand has Kane Williamson. England have Malan. Australia have Steve Smith, West Indies have Shai Hope. Afghanistan have Ibrahim Zadran. Bangladesh have Shanto. Go and look at all these players and their numbers and tell me that they are better than Babar and Rizwan.
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Bro I asked you to list them, cause I wanted to know which players we were going to discuss.

And it's fine if you think I'm wrong, that's AlrightE, I'm just discussing.

2022 wc was beyond lucky that's the thing. SA had beaten Zimbabwe but due to rain they didn't get an extra point and we had to rely on Nedtherlands beating sa to qualify, it also doesn't help that babar and rizwan didn't do a damn thing in the whole tournament minus the nz game.

2021 was a good tournament yes, no question, but this isn't the 2021 team.

Smith, Shai hope, Ibrahim zardan are beyond awful players atm, Smith did nothing even in wc 2023 and was a passenger in the side, the Smith of 2015 is gone and he'll likely get dropped anyway. England is also down in the water and aren't going anywhere atm. Malan was always a crappy replacement for Roy, hales, Bairstow and butler lol.

You've literally listed the weakest links in teams who are either passengers or don't contribute, with the exception of malan once in a blue moon, but public UK sentiment is that he's a massive thorn in the side, Yet you're putting babar and rizwan on a high pedestal?

Only player who's good on this list is Williamson but

A) His left foot is 10x better then babar and rizwan, his stats aren't inflated like Bobby and rizzu, let me repeat this is not 2021 Bobby. And even Williamson is a weak link considering rachin and mitchell are batting. Secondly he's a specialist captain, and very very good captain 100x superior to Bobby as a captain, his role is more so that of a specialist captain which is why he plays.

The guys you've listed are weak links, all it established is that babar and rizwan are weaker links.
 
I know this won't be a popular opinion on this forum, but just having bashers in your team won't mean you will win every game or tournaments.

However having players who have aggressive approach with sensibility such as Mitch Marsh, Aidan Markram, Q.De Kock etc.

The problem Pakistan don't produce players like that, so you have to make do with what you got & the best Pakistan has is Babar & Rizwan. They aren't perfect, in any way whatsoever, however they are the best Pakistan has.

I also don't agree, Usman Khan is the answer to the middle order, lack of domestic cricket as well as just being comfortable against spin. What Pakistan needs is 2020/21 version of Mohammad Hafeez who changed his game considerably in T20.
 
Another thought has crossed my mind, and I sincerely hope this isn't the situation. Over the past few years, we've seen several openers come and go. My concern is whether Babar and Rizwan are instructing them to go all out while they themselves focus on safeguarding the wicket. It's vital that players are allowed to play their natural game and evolve, rather than being pressured into a specific approach.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Unlike yourself and may other posters here I am not driven by agendas towards certain players. I have the common sense to call out Babar and Rizwan's flaws, while being mindful of the fact that Babar, Rizwan, Shaheen and Naseem are four of the most important players to Pakistan cricket's present and future.
Click to expand...
How could I be driven by an agenda when my stance has been the same for the past 4 years?? I haven’t flip flopped on this stance when it conveniently suits me and when it doesn’t! I was like this when I was alone in my fight, I am like this right now when my voice can actually be heard! That’s not agenda driven, that’s resolute belief!
 
TeymurBlake said:
I know this won't be a popular opinion on this forum, but just having bashers in your team won't mean you will win every game or tournaments.
Click to expand...
Lol

Goes on to claim the most popular opinion on this forum and says ‘this won’t be the popular opinion’

Apparently, the guys who criticise your so called popular opinion are the ‘cult’ here.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
And saying Babar and Rizwan don't have a fourth fifth gear is ridiculous. Babar can destroy bowling attacks just by hitting great cricket shots when he gets set. And though Rizwan is limited he too can let loose once he is set.
Click to expand...
The matches where they've DESTROYED attacks like West Indies and Sa c string, I can show the individual statistics of those bowlers. Compare that with someone like Marco jansen these folks would be useless.

I saw he Bobby was playing semi final in 2021. 39 of 34 lol. Same with rizzu in asia cup 55 of 49.
 
emranabbas said:
Another thought has crossed my mind, and I sincerely hope this isn't the situation. Over the past few years, we've seen several openers come and go. My concern is whether Babar and Rizwan are instructing them to go all out while they themselves focus on safeguarding the wicket. It's vital that players are allowed to play their natural game and evolve, rather than being pressured into a specific approach.
Click to expand...
If this is the case.

Someone needs to call Shoaib Akhtar, it's time for batmeezi. :ashwin
 
Rana said:
How could I be driven by an agenda when my stance has been the same for the past 4 years?? I haven’t flip flopped on this stance when it conveniently suits me and when it doesn’t! I was like this when I was alone in my fight, I am like this right now when my voice can actually be heard! That’s not agenda driven, that's resolute belief.
Click to expand...

Bro people randomly throw the word agenda if it means we disagree with em.
 
mominsaigol said:
Bro I asked you to list them, cause I wanted to know which players we were going to discuss.

And it's fine if you think I'm wrong, that's AlrightE, I'm just discussing.

2022 wc was beyond lucky that's the thing. SA had beaten Zimbabwe but due to rain they didn't get an extra point and we had to rely on Nedtherlands beating sa to qualify, it also doesn't help that babar and rizwan didn't do a damn thing in the whole tournament minus the nz game.

2021 was a good tournament yes, no question, but this isn't the 2021 team.

Smith, Shai hope, Ibrahim zardan are beyond awful players atm, Smith did nothing even in wc 2023 and was a passenger in the side, the Smith of 2015 is gone and he'll likely get dropped anyway. England is also down in the water and aren't going anywhere atm. Malan was always a crappy replacement for Roy, hales, Bairstow and butler lol.

You've literally listed the weakest links in teams who are either passengers or don't contribute, with the exception of malan once in a blue moon, but public UK sentiment is that he's a massive thorn in the side, Yet you're putting babar and rizwan on a high pedestal?

Only player who's good on this list is Williamson but

A) His left foot is 10x better then babar and rizwan, his stats aren't inflated like Bobby and rizzu, let me repeat this is not 2021 Bobby. And even Williamson is a weak link considering rachin and mitchell are batting. Secondly he's a specialist captain, and very very good captain 100x superior to Bobby as a captain, his role is more so that of a specialist captain which is why he plays.

The guys you've listed are weak links, all it established is that babar and rizwan are weaker links.n
Click to expand...

I said almost every international team has atleast one anchor. You told me to list them. I listed them. Now you are doing mental gymnastics trying to justify how all these players are awful.

My bro all these players were playing for their respective countries in their last completed T20 matches. Which tells you that contrary to your and many other people's beliefs every team does want an anchor. But maybe looking at these players numbers will tell you that being the anchor is not the easiest job. Because while yes, scoring quickly tends to be the name of the game in T20Is, you also get matches where you're chasing 130 or 140 on a tricky pitch. And that's where you need anchors to use their technique and batting ability to steer the chase.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
I said almost every international team has atleast one anchor.
Click to expand...
Where does that anchor bat?

Don’t give me Ibrahim Zadran as Afghanistan’s opener as an example. Or Pathum Nissanka 116 strike rate for Sri Lanka as an example who open the innings
 
Rana said:
How could I be driven by an agenda when my stance has been the same for the past 4 years?? I haven’t flip flopped on this stance when it conveniently suits me and when it doesn’t! I was like this when I was alone in my fight, I am like this right now when my voice can actually be heard! That’s not agenda driven, that’s resolute belief!
Click to expand...
Because Rizwan has done brilliantly for Pakistan since then. His wicket-keeping is spotless. And he has significantly improved as a batter in all 3 formats. I think anyone who can't see what a brilliant cricketer Rizwan is needs to get their eyes checked.
 
Rana said:
Where does that anchor bat?

Don’t give me Ibrahim Zadran as Afghanistan’s opener as an example. Or Pathum Nissanka 116 strike rate for Sri Lanka as an example who open the innings
Click to expand...
What about all the other names I mentioned? They all bat in the top 3 mate. That's practically the definition of an anchor. And thank you for mentioning Nissanka. I had missed him in that list.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
I said almost every international team has atleast one anchor. You told me to list them. I listed them. Now you are doing mental gymnastics trying to justify how all these players are awful.

My bro all these players were playing for their respective countries in their last completed T20 matches. Which tells you that contrary to your and many other people's beliefs every team does want an anchor. But maybe looking at these players numbers will tell you that being the anchor is not the easiest job. Because while yes, scoring quickly tends to be the name of the game in T20Is, you also get matches where you're chasing 130 or 140 on a tricky pitch. And that's where you need anchors to use their technique and batting ability to steer the chase.
Click to expand...
ill show you all the international players who are at the same level as rizwan and babar you tell me are any of them world class?

these are all players with a very excellent average 40+ like rizwan and babar and the same strike rate as rizwan and babar RIZWAN.png
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
What about all the other names I mentioned? They all bat in the top 3 mate. That's practically the definition of an anchor. And thank you for mentioning Nissanka. I had missed him in that list.
Click to expand...
Having am anchor is fine, just letting you know. But having 5 anchors?

1) Babar
2) Rizwan
3) Shadab
4) Chacha
5) Irfan Khan

^^ All these are anchors in the team. And that's too much.

Chacha: 29 avg + 129Sr
Shadab: 18avg + 137 sr( Low for where he bats)
Rizwan: 49 Avg( inflated) + 122-126 SR
Babar: 42 avg(inflated) + 129 SR

How many anchors do you want?

Heck in 2022 the team you praised we had shan lol.
 
mominsaigol said:
Having am anchor is fine, just letting you know. But having 5 anchors?

1) Babar
2) Rizwan
3) Shadab
4) Chacha
5) Irfan Khan

^^ All these are anchors in the team. And that's too much.

Chacha: 29 avg + 129Sr
Shadab: 18avg + 137 sr( Low for where he bats)
Rizwan: 49 Avg( inflated) + 122-126 SR
Babar: 42 avg(inflated) + 129 SR

How many anchors do you want?

Heck in 2022 the team you praised we had shan lol.
Click to expand...
This was Misbah’s mission all along

I’m surprised Imam didn’t make it into this side
 
emranabbas said:
ill show you all the international players who are at the same level as rizwan and babar you tell me are any of them world class?

these are all players with a very excellent average 40+ like rizwan and babar and the same strike rate as rizwan and babar View attachment 143308
Click to expand...
I'm not exactly sure what you are trying to prove here. Especially when I listed the anchor in every international T20I team except India. Yeah, I guess these guys might be good players in their respective associate division. But their numbers have zero bearing here. Before being an anchor in international cricket is a different challenge altorgther.
 
I wouldnt call usman an accumilator he has had 2 centuries in psl with very good strike rate..
 
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