The Wrestling Discussion Thread

[RedwoodOriginal]

Haven't seen WCW 96-98 apart from some big matches and feuds. But I don't know if anything can beat WWF 98-2001 which I followed in real time back then.

Well I've seen both and can comfortably say WCW was the better show. WWF got great only around 2000-01. The midcard was utter trash till 1999, before Jericho, Benoit, Eddie, Hardy Boyz, E&C, Dudley Boyz walked in.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

The thing is its Mania and you need to put together a feud or match that people desperately want to see to headline. Neither Gunther nor Jey are in that category yet and their feud isn't like Batista Triple H of 2006 which would make everyone rooting for the underdog. Punk vs Roman vs Seth will mainevent the first night cause Roman and Punk are the big draws and people want to wait for their match which is why i dislike the Rumble winner here in Jey especially after him recently having a 3-4 match losing streak against Gunther.

Disagree. I think Gunther is very much in that main-event category and has been for quite some time. As for Jey, he will never be there if you don't pull the trigger. Punk v Rollins is a big feud but I reckon it cheapens the value of the World title and the Royal Rumble match if it doesn't main-event one of the two nights. In some cases I'm okay with the World title not going last, but I don't think this should be one of those cases. The fact that they have already had 3-4 matches; all of which Jey has lost actually plays into the story so I don't see it as a crutch at all. It's a classic underdog story.

Punk and Rollins will also have fought twice by WrestleMania too. Also think that when Punk finally main-events WrestleMania it should be for a belt or in a bigger match than against cringelord Rollins.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Well I've seen both and can comfortably say WCW was the better show. WWF got great only around 2000-01. The midcard was utter trash till 1999, before Jericho, Benoit, Eddie, Hardy Boyz, E&C, Dudley Boyz walked in.

Hmmm. must be really good if it was better than AE.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Disagree. I think Gunther is very much in that main-event category and has been for quite some time. As for Jey, he will never be there if you don't pull the trigger. Punk v Rollins is a big feud but I reckon it cheapens the value of the World title and the Royal Rumble match if it doesn't main-event one of the two nights. In some cases I'm okay with the World title not going last, but I don't think this should be one of those cases. The fact that they have already had 3-4 matches; all of which Jey has lost actually plays into the story so I don't see it as a crutch at all. It's a classic underdog story.

Punk and Rollins will also have fought twice by WrestleMania too. Also think that when Punk finally main-events WrestleMania it should be for a belt or in a bigger match than against cringelord Rollins.

Gunther (not talking about his wrestling ability) definitely is but still not a draw especially for Mania. He needs a big name with him to headline, someone like Punk. I am talking about the casual fanbase here. They don't come to WWE shows to see midcard feuds. They're usually there for the big names.
I think WWE may swerve us and insert Punk into Gunther and Jey storyline. I hope so. And Punk-Roman rivalry needs a bigger build up.

 

[shaz619]

i think peacock is still streaming everything other raw in us. i tried to watch rumble on netflix but it wasnt streaming it live,

For the USA:

RAW: Netflix
Smackdown: USA Network
PLE’s: Peakcock (until March 2026)
NXT: The CW Network

Documentaries/Original Content (Only available in the USA): A&E

Luckily in the UK and majority of countries outside the USA, everything is on Netflix. There are ways around this off course, otherwise you will need a Peacock subscription. In 2026 it will come down to who is willing to pay more for the PLE license and there’s a chance Netflix could be the highest bidder.

All the Network archive footage appears to be making its way to YouTube, although they’ve uploaded some random RAW episodes from the 90’s on Netflix, which makes me think they might eventually have all the RAW episodes there.

What I miss about the Network was being able to pick my favourite rivalries and being able to access every segment/match very easily.

 

[shaz619]

Kamille might be in WWE soon enough. Her run in AEW was so weird. It seems like it might be over already.

If they do that I fear Jey will not be as over one year from now. Once you beat someone as hot as Jey like that, to alot of fans it feels like you've given up on that guy. Not everyone is an exceptional talent like Bryan, capable of bouncing back from any situation. Plus, you never know how plans change one year later and who moves up the card. I say strike while the iron is hot and make a star out of Jey. And I say this as someone who is not a fan of his matches at all. He doesn't have to hold the title for more than 140-150 days, but it will be a good litmus test to see if he is actually capable of hanging in the main-event. Could be a good opportunity to turn Gunther face too with him coming to grips with the fact that he isn't as invincible as he thought he was. I think Gunther has cultivated enough respect among the fans where they are ready to cheer him.

Really? Didn’t she just join AEW recently? Would be too big of Tony to release her so quick. Yeah I get what you mean, I also said that for my own selfish viewing because I’d find it very amusing if it happened lol Someone like Jey it was risky. The thing with Bryan and I don’t know if you watched at the time, but obviously Vince wanted to squash him like a bug despite his bubbling popularity, and it wasn’t even Bryan bouncing back from that in my view, it was the fans who went absolutely mental, I had never seen anything quiet like the outrage of him losing to Sheamus like that; I would say that was the day the YES Movement was born; if you recall the night after Wrestlemania, there were YES chants throughout the show before a very hot smark European crowd who was responsible for coming up with most of the chants they do now, Bryan wasn’t booked for the show but they were forced to bring him out to address the crowd during the dark segment. You know what it was, I think it was the last wave of smark fans who religiously had followed the golden era of independent wrestling and they bridged the gap for casual fans, with the smark fans we knew what a generational talent Bryan was and what he had done for the wrestling business, while the casuals could at least see in the kayfabe world how mistreated Bryan was despite being a highly skilled wrestler. It was a unique environment to say the least, yeah they probably need to have him go over in a 50/50 type match to open the show, I don’t see it as a WM main event and they’ve not given Gunther enough respect, if anything wouldn’t surprise me to see him come out of this receiving more sympathy as you said fans acknowledge how good he is.

 

[shaz619]

Gunther (not talking about his wrestling ability) definitely is but still not a draw especially for Mania. He needs a big name with him to headline, someone like Punk. I am talking about the casual fanbase here. They don't come to WWE shows to see midcard feuds. They're usually there for the big names.
I think WWE may swerve us and insert Punk into Gunther and Jey storyline. I hope so. And Punk-Roman rivalry needs a bigger build up.

I think after WM, they need to start a program to restore credibility to the WHC. Vince gets stick but he knew how to do that, whether we liked it or not, Lesnar and Goldberg helped elevate the Universal Championship at the time, and it meant something when Reigns won it. Fundamentally he understood you need to use the bigger stars to get somebody with a push over. The WHC is desperate to be held by a major star, Gunther has done a terrific job as champion but it is H who has failed him by relegating him to the upper mid-card.

If somebody like a Lesnar or CM Punk or even John Cena held the WHC and then put over Gunther, it gives him more of a rub and gives him more of an opportunity to solidify his main event position.

Yes, you could be right because the triple threat is no guarantee yet. I think we should find out next week really during the Punk/Rollins cage match. If they go down the Reigns vs Seth route, it opens the doors for Punk to enter either the WHC or WWE World Title picture.

 

[shaz619]

This was wrestling’s versions of therapy for me:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1897674396011053232

Those who know, know @RedwoodOriginal

P.S - One of the greatest gimmick matches of all time.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Gunther (not talking about his wrestling ability) definitely is but still not a draw especially for Mania. He needs a big name with him to headline, someone like Punk. I am talking about the casual fanbase here. They don't come to WWE shows to see midcard feuds. They're usually there for the big names.
I think WWE may swerve us and insert Punk into Gunther and Jey storyline. I hope so. And Punk-Roman rivalry needs a bigger build up.

WWE is big enough where the WrestleMania name sells itself. And sorry but if you are really serious about creating new stars these two have to main-event. Otherwise Jey Uso will always be a midcarder. Gunther may not be on the level of some of the biggest names but he is certainly on the cusp of being there. The only thing he has been missing is feuds with bigger names. Besides Randy he has not been involved in too many feuds with stars bigger than him. But when it comes to presentation, in-ring ability and promos, i don't think anyone can disagree with the fact that he is right up there with the very best in the company. Personally, I don't see Punk getting involved there and I hope he doesn't because logically it wouldn't make sense and would feel shoe-horned and forced. He can't have a match with just Roman because that dynamic has not been explored well-enough. It has to be a third match with Seth (possibly HIAC) or a three-way involving Seth, Roman and Punk. Doing a swerve for a sake of doing a swerve serves no purpose for me.

Also feel like you're looking past the popularity of Jey Uso who is massively popular with the casual fanbase. Particularly the newer fans.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

This was wrestling’s versions of therapy for me:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1897674396011053232

Those who know, know @RedwoodOriginal

P.S - One of the greatest gimmick matches of all time.

The Miseria Cantare song as the theme was such a nice touch. I remember popping for that big. What a great time this was. Peak of AEW and a time when they were putting on even better shows than WWE.

And what an incredible match!

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

For the USA:

RAW: Netflix
Smackdown: USA Network
PLE’s: Peakcock (until March 2026)
NXT: The CW Network

Documentaries/Original Content (Only available in the USA): A&E

Luckily in the UK and majority of countries outside the USA, everything is on Netflix. There are ways around this off course, otherwise you will need a Peacock subscription. In 2026 it will come down to who is willing to pay more for the PLE license and there’s a chance Netflix could be the highest bidder.

All the Network archive footage appears to be making its way to YouTube, although they’ve uploaded some random RAW episodes from the 90’s on Netflix, which makes me think they might eventually have all the RAW episodes there.

What I miss about the Network was being able to pick my favourite rivalries and being able to access every segment/match very easily.

I actually heard from someone that SmackDown is available on Netflix too outside US

 

[shaz619]

I actually heard from someone that SmackDown is available on Netflix too outside US

Yes, SD is available to, weirdly I check out RAW & NXT a lot more lately unless there’s a big player segment on SD, perhaps it’s the timing as well because I can only watch SD on the Saturday.

 

[shaz619]

The Miseria Cantare song as the theme was such a nice touch. I remember popping for that big. What a great time this was. Peak of AEW and a time when they were putting on even better shows than WWE.

And what an incredible match!

Absolutely, Collision for me was the best wrestling show on TV and whoever Punk worked with, got elevated. It’s a shame not too many people watched AEW (certainly they did more then compared to now), because Punk did not leave any stone unturned with his work there, it was the greatest comeback in Wrestling since Shawn in 2002 and dare I say his output was off that ilk. UFC obviously took years off his physical capabilities but so did his AEW run, Punk worked some extremely physical matches and almost every TV taping. He has adapted his style now and wants to get more out of what is left of his career in wrestling, a lot meatier, smarter and great awareness for the demands within the WWE set-up, and still is head and shoulders above everyone else. Punk is a lot like Mike Tyson and Larry Merchant (A famous HBO commentator) once said during Tyson’s prime that the only man that can beat Tyson, is Tyson himself; and that applies to Punk to an extent. Only CM Punk can beat CM Punk in the squared circle.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Really? Didn’t she just join AEW recently? Would be too big of Tony to release her so quick. Yeah I get what you mean, I also said that for my own selfish viewing because I’d find it very amusing if it happened lol Someone like Jey it was risky. The thing with Bryan and I don’t know if you watched at the time, but obviously Vince wanted to squash him like a bug despite his bubbling popularity, and it wasn’t even Bryan bouncing back from that in my view, it was the fans who went absolutely mental, I had never seen anything quiet like the outrage of him losing to Sheamus like that; I would say that was the day the YES Movement was born; if you recall the night after Wrestlemania, there were YES chants throughout the show before a very hot smark European crowd who was responsible for coming up with most of the chants they do now, Bryan wasn’t booked for the show but they were forced to bring him out to address the crowd during the dark segment. You know what it was, I think it was the last wave of smark fans who religiously had followed the golden era of independent wrestling and they bridged the gap for casual fans, with the smark fans we knew what a generational talent Bryan was and what he had done for the wrestling business, while the casuals could at least see in the kayfabe world how mistreated Bryan was despite being a highly skilled wrestler. It was a unique environment to say the least, yeah they probably need to have him go over in a 50/50 type match to open the show, I don’t see it as a WM main event and they’ve not given Gunther enough respect, if anything wouldn’t surprise me to see him come out of this receiving more sympathy as you said fans acknowledge how good he is.

You're right. The fans did have a massive role in making that thing come into fruition. But I still put alot of it down to Bryan being such a perfect underdog babyface and an all around fantastic performer. It's hard for me to imagine anyone else being so unlike the prototypical Vince guy, while being so loved by the fans. And I actually think it was both the casuals and the smarks who united to make Bryan's push happen. The only person I felt bad for was Batista, who wanted nothing more than to come back and wrestle. And unfortunately got caught up in the cross-fire. It all ended up working out for the best because the three-way at WrestleMania the subsequent Shield v Evolution feud were both outstanding. But there was no reason for the fans to take the anger they had for Vince out on Batista.

I get your and @BunnyRabbit's point that both guys are not as well-established as Punk, Rollins and Roman but like I said, sometimes you need to do these things to elevate guys. If you really went through the trouble of booking him to win the Royal Rumble over so many bigger names then what's the harm in giving him the main-event too? Ultimately the match head-lining the show is still Cena v Cody. I think Jey and Gunther main-eventing would also be a major statement from WWE that these are two guys we take very seriously and see as a the future of the company. Plus, as I said in an earlier post Punk main-eventing Mania is a storyline you can play with a little bit, especially now when so many wrestlers have thrown that in his face in promos too.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Really? Didn’t she just join AEW recently? Would be too big of Tony to release her so quick. Yeah I get what you mean, I also said that for my own selfish viewing because I’d find it very amusing if it happened lol Someone like Jey it was risky. The thing with Bryan and I don’t know if you watched at the time, but obviously Vince wanted to squash him like a bug despite his bubbling popularity, and it wasn’t even Bryan bouncing back from that in my view, it was the fans who went absolutely mental, I had never seen anything quiet like the outrage of him losing to Sheamus like that; I would say that was the day the YES Movement was born; if you recall the night after Wrestlemania, there were YES chants throughout the show before a very hot smark European crowd who was responsible for coming up with most of the chants they do now, Bryan wasn’t booked for the show but they were forced to bring him out to address the crowd during the dark segment. You know what it was, I think it was the last wave of smark fans who religiously had followed the golden era of independent wrestling and they bridged the gap for casual fans, with the smark fans we knew what a generational talent Bryan was and what he had done for the wrestling business, while the casuals could at least see in the kayfabe world how mistreated Bryan was despite being a highly skilled wrestler. It was a unique environment to say the least, yeah they probably need to have him go over in a 50/50 type match to open the show, I don’t see it as a WM main event and they’ve not given Gunther enough respect, if anything wouldn’t surprise me to see him come out of this receiving more sympathy as you said fans acknowledge how good he is.

Kamille came in as Mercedes's bodyguard. It was a complete rehash of the Shawn-Diesel storyline. Only they sped it up by bout 10x. Within weeks there were cracks in the partnership and not long after that the break-up was imminent. Rather than setting-up a feud as any normal booker would, they had Kamille splitting from her by telling her off in a segment on Dynamite. And then she just disappeared never to be seen again. I think it has been atleast 4 months since she was last seen on TV. When asked about her status with AEW, she declined to comment. In the meantime, numerous people on the dirtsheet beat have alluded that she may be done with the company soon.

 

[shaz619]

You're right. The fans did have a massive role in making that thing come into fruition. But I still put alot of it down to Bryan being such a perfect underdog babyface and an all around fantastic performer. It's hard for me to imagine anyone else being so unlike the prototypical Vince guy, while being so loved by the fans. And I actually think it was both the casuals and the smarks who united to make Bryan's push happen. The only person I felt bad for was Batista, who wanted nothing more than to come back and wrestle. And unfortunately got caught up in the cross-fire. It all ended up working out for the best because the three-way at WrestleMania the subsequent Shield v Evolution feud were both outstanding. But there was no reason for the fans to take the anger they had for Vince out on Batista.

I get your and @BunnyRabbit's point that both guys are not as well-established as Punk, Rollins and Roman but like I said, sometimes you need to do these things to elevate guys. If you really went through the trouble of booking him to win the Royal Rumble over so many bigger names then what's the harm in giving him the main-event too? Ultimately the match head-lining the show is still Cena v Cody. I think Jey and Gunther main-eventing would also be a major statement from WWE that these are two guys we take very seriously and see as a the future of the company. Plus, as I said in an earlier post Punk main-eventing Mania is a storyline you can play with a little bit, especially now when so many wrestlers have thrown that in his face in promos too.

Yeah it was an unreal time and credit to Bryan as well for playing the character for sure and it was a shoot ultimately, it was all real which made it work so well, as I was saying the smarks bridged the gap for the casuals and they were one united voice, the audience has completely changed now and isn’t so divided like it use to be which made it all the more epic because a generational talent was about to make it big time and go mainstream, and then end up working for AEW Yeah you’re right Batista was collateral damage, he was promised a title but Vince didn’t see the Guardians being a successful movie lol In hindsight, heel Batista going into WM 30 as champion would not have been a bad idea, their main mistake with the whole thing was having Batista show up as a face, something Batista himself was against. The Evolution reunion was good though and subsequent feud with The Shield.

You are right in everything you said, am just getting desperate about CM Punk main-eventing, maybe it’s partly all these little jobbers cutting a promo on Punk about him not having done so Plus Punk is on borrowed time and we don’t know what to expect, you want your biggest stars in the top spot and no one can touch Punk in that regard as an all round performer who is also a huge draw.

 

[shaz619]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1898071214272249906

Is somebody cutting onions in here?

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1898071214272249906

Is somebody cutting onions in here?

Really great news. Especially considering everything he has been through in the last couple of decades.

 

[mominsaigol]

I actually heard from someone that SmackDown is available on Netflix too outside US

It is. I watch it on Saturday

 

[sweep_shot]

I actually heard from someone that SmackDown is available on Netflix too outside US

Yes. Smackdown too.

You can also see pay-per-views apparently.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I think after WM, they need to start a program to restore credibility to the WHC. Vince gets stick but he knew how to do that, whether we liked it or not, Lesnar and Goldberg helped elevate the Universal Championship at the time, and it meant something when Reigns won it. Fundamentally he understood you need to use the bigger stars to get somebody with a push over. The WHC is desperate to be held by a major star, Gunther has done a terrific job as champion but it is H who has failed him by relegating him to the upper mid-card.

If somebody like a Lesnar or CM Punk or even John Cena held the WHC and then put over Gunther, it gives him more of a rub and gives him more of an opportunity to solidify his main event position.

Yes, you could be right because the triple threat is no guarantee yet. I think we should find out next week really during the Punk/Rollins cage match. If they go down the Reigns vs Seth route, it opens the doors for Punk to enter either the WHC or WWE World Title picture.

Yes completely agree.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

WWE is big enough where the WrestleMania name sells itself. And sorry but if you are really serious about creating new stars these two have to main-event. Otherwise Jey Uso will always be a midcarder. Gunther may not be on the level of some of the biggest names but he is certainly on the cusp of being there. The only thing he has been missing is feuds with bigger names. Besides Randy he has not been involved in too many feuds with stars bigger than him. But when it comes to presentation, in-ring ability and promos, i don't think anyone can disagree with the fact that he is right up there with the very best in the company. Personally, I don't see Punk getting involved there and I hope he doesn't because logically it wouldn't make sense and would feel shoe-horned and forced. He can't have a match with just Roman because that dynamic has not been explored well-enough. It has to be a third match with Seth (possibly HIAC) or a three-way involving Seth, Roman and Punk. Doing a swerve for a sake of doing a swerve serves no purpose for me.

Also feel like you're looking past the popularity of Jey Uso who is massively popular with the casual fanbase. Particularly the newer fans.

Randy has been the only feud with Gunther that has had box office appeal. Apart from that, he's only faced midcarders.
Like @shaz619 said, unless two big stars are fighting over it, you can't really have much prestige with it. Atm it still feels like an IC feud. Gunther atm still need a bigger name like Punk, Roman, Randy, Cena, Brock, Drew etc to feud for the title to make it look like a big deal. It would have been good if Drew had feuded over it with Gunther.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Absolutely, Collision for me was the best wrestling show on TV and whoever Punk worked with, got elevated. It’s a shame not too many people watched AEW (certainly they did more then compared to now), because Punk did not leave any stone unturned with his work there, it was the greatest comeback in Wrestling since Shawn in 2002 and dare I say his output was off that ilk. UFC obviously took years off his physical capabilities but so did his AEW run, Punk worked some extremely physical matches and almost every TV taping. He has adapted his style now and wants to get more out of what is left of his career in wrestling, a lot meatier, smarter and great awareness for the demands within the WWE set-up, and still is head and shoulders above everyone else. Punk is a lot like Mike Tyson and Larry Merchant (A famous HBO commentator) once said during Tyson’s prime that the only man that can beat Tyson, is Tyson himself; and that applies to Punk to an extent. Only CM Punk can beat CM Punk in the squared circle.

And WWE is a lot wiser in not having Punk wrestle every week so his battered body breaks down again. They are smartly managing his schedule.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Yeah it was an unreal time and credit to Bryan as well for playing the character for sure and it was a shoot ultimately, it was all real which made it work so well, as I was saying the smarks bridged the gap for the casuals and they were one united voice, the audience has completely changed now and isn’t so divided like it use to be which made it all the more epic because a generational talent was about to make it big time and go mainstream, and then end up working for AEW Yeah you’re right Batista was collateral damage, he was promised a title but Vince didn’t see the Guardians being a successful movie lol In hindsight, heel Batista going into WM 30 as champion would not have been a bad idea, their main mistake with the whole thing was having Batista show up as a face, something Batista himself was against. The Evolution reunion was good though and subsequent feud with The Shield.

You are right in everything you said, am just getting desperate about CM Punk main-eventing, maybe it’s partly all these little jobbers cutting a promo on Punk about him not having done so Plus Punk is on borrowed time and we don’t know what to expect, you want your biggest stars in the top spot and no one can touch Punk in that regard as an all round performer who is also a huge draw.

The pops Bryan was getting by late 2013 to 2014 was similar to what the likes of Austin and Rock got in AE.

 

[Suleiman]

I think after WM, they need to start a program to restore credibility to the WHC. Vince gets stick but he knew how to do that, whether we liked it or not, Lesnar and Goldberg helped elevate the Universal Championship at the time, and it meant something when Reigns won it. Fundamentally he understood you need to use the bigger stars to get somebody with a push over. The WHC is desperate to be held by a major star, Gunther has done a terrific job as champion but it is H who has failed him by relegating him to the upper mid-card.

If somebody like a Lesnar or CM Punk or even John Cena held the WHC and then put over Gunther, it gives him more of a rub and gives him more of an opportunity to solidify his main event position.

Yes, you could be right because the triple threat is no guarantee yet. I think we should find out next week really during the Punk/Rollins cage match. If they go down the Reigns vs Seth route, it opens the doors for Punk to enter either the WHC or WWE World Title picture.

Yeah I said this too. Gunther is great but he’s not the right guy to bring credibility because he’s relatively newer. Seth’s character was a bozo for the last few years only recently he’s taking himself more serious so he didn’t do much for the WHC either.

It was so dumb to scrape it initially. That big gold belt was timeless. Under Vince in his prime within a few months to about a year or so once they rebranded the WCW championship it became at the same level as WWE championship pretty fast. I’ll even say as a fan it meant waaay more to me than the WWE belt between 2004-2011.

Looked cooler and someone like Batista elevated it further. Then you had all the big legends fighting for it. The wwe spinner belt looked goofy on Undertaker ngl, but once he got the big gold it looked like a proper important title.

Outside of Randy none of the big legends have battled for the new WHC. If Roman was on RAW he’d elevate it. Outside of him Punk needs to have it imo.

 

[Suleiman]

One of the best Cody promos ever. Took Cena to go heel to bring Cody’s reign back to life

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Absolutely, Collision for me was the best wrestling show on TV and whoever Punk worked with, got elevated. It’s a shame not too many people watched AEW (certainly they did more then compared to now), because Punk did not leave any stone unturned with his work there, it was the greatest comeback in Wrestling since Shawn in 2002 and dare I say his output was off that ilk. UFC obviously took years off his physical capabilities but so did his AEW run, Punk worked some extremely physical matches and almost every TV taping. He has adapted his style now and wants to get more out of what is left of his career in wrestling, a lot meatier, smarter and great awareness for the demands within the WWE set-up, and still is head and shoulders above everyone else. Punk is a lot like Mike Tyson and Larry Merchant (A famous HBO commentator) once said during Tyson’s prime that the only man that can beat Tyson, is Tyson himself; and that applies to Punk to an extent. Only CM Punk can beat CM Punk in the squared circle.

That was the second golden Punk era. After he came back from the injury and decided he wasn't gonna mince any words about the clowns on the locker-room.

That's a great point you made about his schedule there, and it taking a toll on his body at his age. I'm glad to see he has been working smarter in WWE. In AEW, I feel like he had a point to prove. That he still had it, and had what it took to hang in the company where the workrate and match-quality was really important to the fanbase. Needless to say he proved that. He didn't just have great matches but also brought logic and storytelling to them that alot of guys didn't have. The guy was wrestling Satoshi Kojima and having rematches with Joe that people had been waiting to see for decades. All in all, despite the way it ended I thought the entire run was nothing but incredible.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Yeah I said this too. Gunther is great but he’s not the right guy to bring credibility because he’s relatively newer. Seth’s character was a bozo for the last few years only recently he’s taking himself more serious so he didn’t do much for the WHC either.

It was so dumb to scrape it initially. That big gold belt was timeless. Under Vince in his prime within a few months to about a year or so once they rebranded the WCW championship it became at the same level as WWE championship pretty fast. I’ll even say as a fan it meant waaay more to me than the WWE belt between 2004-2011.

Looked cooler and someone like Batista elevated it further. Then you had all the big legends fighting for it. The wwe spinner belt looked goofy on Undertaker ngl, but once he got the big gold it looked like a proper important title.

Outside of Randy none of the big legends have battled for the new WHC. If Roman was on RAW he’d elevate it. Outside of him Punk needs to have it imo.

The big gold belt is easily the most gorgeous wrestling belt there has ever been. Not even the winged eagle compares. But WWE have this obsessive desire to put their logo on everything so I guess this was their way of paying homage to it while making it their own. For me it just cheapens that beautiful and timeless design.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Randy has been the only feud with Gunther that has had box office appeal. Apart from that, he's only faced midcarders.
Like @shaz619 said, unless two big stars are fighting over it, you can't really have much prestige with it. Atm it still feels like an IC feud. Gunther atm still need a bigger name like Punk, Roman, Randy, Cena, Brock, Drew etc to feud for the title to make it look like a big deal. It would have been good if Drew had feuded over it with Gunther.

I see your guys' point but I don't agree. I have really enjoyed Gunther's reign so far. Despite the lack of big name challengers, he has carried himself like a World Champion. After the damage that having Cringelord Rollins as the first champion did to the credibility of the belt and then having someone as unestablished as Priest hold it, I think Gunther has been a major improvement. I do agree that they need someone big holding this belt soon. But just based on the position they are in, there's nothing wrong with giving Jey Uso a short run. And then a big name beats him so he doesn't get hurt either.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Yeah it was an unreal time and credit to Bryan as well for playing the character for sure and it was a shoot ultimately, it was all real which made it work so well, as I was saying the smarks bridged the gap for the casuals and they were one united voice, the audience has completely changed now and isn’t so divided like it use to be which made it all the more epic because a generational talent was about to make it big time and go mainstream, and then end up working for AEW Yeah you’re right Batista was collateral damage, he was promised a title but Vince didn’t see the Guardians being a successful movie lol In hindsight, heel Batista going into WM 30 as champion would not have been a bad idea, their main mistake with the whole thing was having Batista show up as a face, something Batista himself was against. The Evolution reunion was good though and subsequent feud with The Shield.

You are right in everything you said, am just getting desperate about CM Punk main-eventing, maybe it’s partly all these little jobbers cutting a promo on Punk about him not having done so Plus Punk is on borrowed time and we don’t know what to expect, you want your biggest stars in the top spot and no one can touch Punk in that regard as an all round performer who is also a huge draw.

Yeah I agree with that sentiment. It's a shame Punk got injured last year otherwise we would have seen Punk v Rollins for the WHC. And by now, Punk would potentially be feuding with Roman. Still it is what it is. I really hope though that he is in the main-event next year.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

One of the best Cody promos ever. Took Cena to go heel to bring Cody’s reign back to life

It was a fantastic promo. Also, yikes! did his face look gnarly.

At this point though I am getting impatient to see heel Cena again. I hope he does a surprise appearance at RAW next week. Because its at MSG which is always a big show for them, and generally filled with some surprises for the heavily smark NY crowd.

 

[shaz619]

Yeah I said this too. Gunther is great but he’s not the right guy to bring credibility because he’s relatively newer. Seth’s character was a bozo for the last few years only recently he’s taking himself more serious so he didn’t do much for the WHC either.

It was so dumb to scrape it initially. That big gold belt was timeless. Under Vince in his prime within a few months to about a year or so once they rebranded the WCW championship it became at the same level as WWE championship pretty fast. I’ll even say as a fan it meant waaay more to me than the WWE belt between 2004-2011.

Looked cooler and someone like Batista elevated it further. Then you had all the big legends fighting for it. The wwe spinner belt looked goofy on Undertaker ngl, but once he got the big gold it looked like a proper important title.

Outside of Randy none of the big legends have battled for the new WHC. If Roman was on RAW he’d elevate it. Outside of him Punk needs to have it imo.

Randy, Punk etc are all good choices, Randy should have gone over and AJ Styles should have been the inaugural champion and not Seth, they are wasting AJ to who is another guy in the best shape of his life and he wont be around much longer.

Batista in the white Roll neck and WHC around his waist bah gawd and that Taker run was so special, no man his size will ever surpass his efforts in the ring, Taker moved around like a middleweight and could go with the smaller more technically gifted wrestlers, Taker deserves so much more cred for his in-ring ability.

 

[shaz619]

I see your guys' point but I don't agree. I have really enjoyed Gunther's reign so far. Despite the lack of big name challengers, he has carried himself like a World Champion. After the damage that having Cringelord Rollins as the first champion did to the credibility of the belt and then having someone as unestablished as Priest hold it, I think Gunther has been a major improvement. I do agree that they need someone big holding this belt soon. But just based on the position they are in, there's nothing wrong with giving Jey Uso a short run. And then a big name beats him so he doesn't get hurt either.

Gunther is easily the best champion we’ve had and his work has been tremendous really no matter who he has worked with and whatever position on the card, it’s just that H should have booked him like he did himself as WHC because Gunther deserves it and is 10x more credible

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

@shaz619 Max already looking to jump off the sinking ship.

MJF Says He Thought John Cena's Heel Turn Was Awesome, Rants About WWE Stars Pretending Not To Watch AEW

MJF doesn't pretend not to watch WWE just because he works in AEW. In fact, the top AEW star spoke during his appearance on the SI Media with Jimmy Traina

wrestlingheadlines.com

 

[mominsaigol]

@shaz619 Max already looking to jump off the sinking ship.

MJF Says He Thought John Cena's Heel Turn Was Awesome, Rants About WWE Stars Pretending Not To Watch AEW

MJF doesn't pretend not to watch WWE just because he works in AEW. In fact, the top AEW star spoke during his appearance on the SI Media with Jimmy Traina

wrestlingheadlines.com

Now ik why cena turned Heel. Rock threatened to expose his aew viewing habits.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

According to Dirt Sheet Dave, the original plan was for Cena to turn heel at WrestleMania after the match with Cody.

Apparently before that, Rock's first idea was Cody turning heel and aligning with him to face babyface Cena. But Cody turned it down, so they went with heel Cena instead. And decided to turn him heel at Elimination Chamber rather than Mania, as originally planned. Think its safe to say that they went with the best option.

It's Dirt Sheet Dave so you have to take everything he says with a grain of salt. But Cody not wanting to turn babyface checks out because that's something that was a thing with him in AEW too. Once his AEW run as a babyface completely fell flat there was alot of fan and internal company pressure on him to turn heel. But he didn't because he felt his community outreach work and his image as being a 'role model' to children would be affected.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

@shaz619 @BunnyRabbit @Suleiman Latest version of Rikishi's 'I did it for you, Rock.'

 

[Suleiman]

@shaz619 @BunnyRabbit @Suleiman Latest version of Rikishi's 'I did for you, Rock.'

Lmao this was proper ARY Digital soap opera drama acting

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

This heel turn could extend John Cena's career by another 2-3 years, especially if he brings back the Doctor of Thuganomics persona. It opens the door for so many exciting matches, Cena vs. Orton, Cena vs. Punk, Cena vs. Roman, Cena vs. Rollins, Cena vs. AJ Styles and the last match of his career against 'The Final Boss' The Rock himself.

 

[mominsaigol]

According to Dirt Sheet Dave, the original plan was for Cena to turn heel at WrestleMania after the match with Cody.

Apparently before that, Rock's first idea was Cody turning heel and aligning with him to face babyface Cena. But Cody turned it down, so they went with heel Cena instead. And decided to turn him heel at Elimination Chamber rather than Mania, as originally planned. Think its safe to say that they went with the best option.

It's Dirt Sheet Dave so you have to take everything he says with a grain of salt. But Cody not wanting to turn babyface checks out because that's something that was a thing with him in AEW too. Once his AEW run as a babyface completely fell flat there was alot of fan and internal company pressure on him to turn heel. But he didn't because he felt his community outreach work and his image as being a 'role model' to children would be affected.

Him turning heel would be a disaster move.

Firstly it doesn't make any sense since storyline wise he literally has no reason to while cena has every reason to.

Cena has been a joke for nearly 4 years now and every wrestler in storyline is calling him out for being a has been and using his fame + fortune to get to where he is. The likes of miz have even called him a hypocrite since he called the rock out for selling his soul to Hollywood when cena did the same.

It stands to reason he'd turn heel since it gives him an unfair advantage to win 17th as he's desperate now.

Secondly I'd be tiring to see super cena face another heel, especially when the main character is Cody atm and not cena.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Him turning heel would be a disaster move.

Firstly it doesn't make any sense since storyline wise he literally has no reason to while cena has every reason to.

Cena has been a joke for nearly 4 years now and every wrestler in storyline is calling him out for being a has been and using his fame + fortune to get to where he is. The likes of miz have even called him a hypocrite since he called the rock out for selling his soul to Hollywood when cena did the same.

It stands to reason he'd turn heel since it gives him an unfair advantage to win 17th as he's desperate now.

Secondly I'd be tiring to see super cena face another heel, especially when the main character is Cody atm and not cena.

Exactly. He has just been made into a mega babyface. It's too early to turn him heel. He hasn't even hit his stride yet. It's a rumor from the dirt sheets so the veracity is questionable. But this is just one example of why I have not been a fan of The Rock's growing influence in the company even since he became a board member.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

This heel turn could extend John Cena's career by another 2-3 years, especially if he brings back the Doctor of Thuganomics persona. It opens the door for so many exciting matches, Cena vs. Orton, Cena vs. Punk, Cena vs. Roman, Cena vs. Rollins, Cena vs. AJ Styles and the last match of his career against 'The Final Boss' The Rock himself.

Actually this is Cena's last year in WWE.

 

[mominsaigol]

Actually this is Cena's last year in WWE.

I'm starting to doubt that tbh. I feel like their are plans to extend his stay otherwise his heel run would be too short.

 

[mominsaigol]

Exactly. He has just been made into a mega babyface. It's too early to turn him heel. He hasn't even hit his stride yet. It's a rumor from the dirt sheets so the veracity is questionable. But this is just one example of why I have not been a fan of The Rock's growing influence in the company even since he became a board member.

I don't think he'll turn heel ever again tbh. Cody wants to be an influence to the children while cena always wanted what's best for business.

Cena has genuinely been a wwe puppet since his inring debut while Cody has always been the type to be defiant and carve his own story. If he's dissatisfied he will leave wwe.

They'll make sure Cody is allowed to run his Kingdom( pun intended)

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I'm starting to doubt that tbh. I feel like their are plans to extend his stay otherwise his heel run would be too short.

He's a big-time movie star now who is probably getting alot of movie roles offered to him. I think he wants to focus on it full-time and he is not getting any younger. Good time to pack up and leave on a high. 9 months is plenty of time to get a memorable heel run out of Cena.

 

[shaz619]

@shaz619 Max already looking to jump off the sinking ship.

MJF Says He Thought John Cena's Heel Turn Was Awesome, Rants About WWE Stars Pretending Not To Watch AEW

MJF doesn't pretend not to watch WWE just because he works in AEW. In fact, the top AEW star spoke during his appearance on the SI Media with Jimmy Traina

wrestlingheadlines.com

I swear I thought I read somewhere he extended his deal yet again?

 

[shaz619]

@shaz619 @BunnyRabbit @Suleiman Latest version of Rikishi's 'I did it for you, Rock.'

This is why us wrestling fans don’t need to watch anything else.

We literally get everything genre wise through this art form.

Am just sad the Academy’s slipped past these two, because this was brilliant.

Us raslin fans are simple men, yeah sure, we enjoyed the bra & panties matches once upon a time, but now that we are older and more mature, we’ve become rancid gossips who like a bit of Star Plus / ARY style beef @Suleiman , and who needs to watch those drama’s when we have this

 

[shaz619]

According to Dirt Sheet Dave, the original plan was for Cena to turn heel at WrestleMania after the match with Cody.

Apparently before that, Rock's first idea was Cody turning heel and aligning with him to face babyface Cena. But Cody turned it down, so they went with heel Cena instead. And decided to turn him heel at Elimination Chamber rather than Mania, as originally planned. Think its safe to say that they went with the best option.

It's Dirt Sheet Dave so you have to take everything he says with a grain of salt. But Cody not wanting to turn babyface checks out because that's something that was a thing with him in AEW too. Once his AEW run as a babyface completely fell flat there was alot of fan and internal company pressure on him to turn heel. But he didn't because he felt his community outreach work and his image as being a 'role model' to children would be affected.

I read some of this stuff and it just sounds so like H leaking random bs to make us feel like he has some authority to feed his fragile ego.

Does he really think we are that stupid that we will buy this idea that he rejected Dwayne’s proposal and then got Cody on board to reject the turn?

Lets be real, in this game, with Dwayne on the TKO board; H and Cody are his little b!tches, especially the former.

I do agree Cody wouldn’t want to turn, but I don’t actually think that was ever remotely a realistic option which was presented seriously.

The plan has always been to turn Cena, I think this dates all the way back to the Road To Wrestlemania last year with them planting the seeds for this.

One thing I do buy though is that the turn was planned for Wrestlemania, I mean that’s what I expected, I didn’t want to make my feelings abundantly clear due to spoilers so I said I expected something big for Cena character-wise at Mania. But they flipped the switch and bought the plans forward to the EC event, partly due to leaks and partly to make the WM build more spicy, I feel the higher ups probably were more surprised by the shock and lack of fantasy booking / expectation for the Cena turn but that’s just because this is a unique moment in history, they could have dragged it if they wanted to. It reminds me of when they bought Punk’s return forward at SS for similar reasons.

 

[shaz619]

I'm starting to doubt that tbh. I feel like their are plans to extend his stay otherwise his heel run would be too short.

Certainly wouldn’t shock me, I think the heel Cena could throw those plans out the water. Come to think about it, maybe he had us fooled, like why would he have a fixed retirement date in December 2025 ? That’s so far away, surely they’d want him to work Wrestlemania next year at least. Unless he has planned shooting in 2026 as suggested above. We should get a better idea come April.

 

[shaz619]

This heel turn could extend John Cena's career by another 2-3 years, especially if he brings back the Doctor of Thuganomics persona. It opens the door for so many exciting matches, Cena vs. Orton, Cena vs. Punk, Cena vs. Roman, Cena vs. Rollins, Cena vs. AJ Styles and the last match of his career against 'The Final Boss' The Rock himself.

Didn’t know I wanted Thrice In A Lifetime until now

 

[mominsaigol]

Didn’t know I wanted Thrice In A Lifetime until now

Doctor of thugnomics ain't coming back, it'll be a new heel. They want a new persona for cena, not a recycled one.

Plus doctor of thugnomics wasn't really a heel, more so a mid card wrestler who's neutral. Very similar to the likes of how Miz or Logan Paul are now.

Their not really heels, just annoying people that everyone likes to hate on.

 

[Suleiman]

Doctor of thugnomics ain't coming back, it'll be a new heel. They want a new persona for cena, not a recycled one.

Plus doctor of thugnomics wasn't really a heel, more so a mid card wrestler who's neutral. Very similar to the likes of how Miz or Logan Paul are now.

Their not really heels, just annoying people that everyone likes to hate on.

Cena posted a TikTok a day after EC with the basic thuganomics theme. He could very well bring it back.

Hope it’s something new, but still a possibility

This is why us wrestling fans don’t need to watch anything else.

We literally get everything genre wise through this art form.

Am just sad the Academy’s slipped past these two, because this was brilliant.

Us raslin fans are simple men, yeah sure, we enjoyed the bra & panties matches once upon a time, but now that we are older and more mature, we’ve become rancid gossips who like a bit of Star Plus / ARY style beef @Suleiman , and who needs to watch those drama’s when we have this

Bianca showed more acting range than Rock, she should head the Hollywood Family stable with Cena and Rock.

I remember how insane Vince was when it came to divas in the 2000s, the remote would be firmly in my hand that as soon as some beghairti showed up I’d change the channel before my parents or elders walk by the TV lmao.

 

[shaz619]

Doctor of thugnomics ain't coming back, it'll be a new heel. They want a new persona for cena, not a recycled one.

Plus doctor of thugnomics wasn't really a heel, more so a mid card wrestler who's neutral. Very similar to the likes of how Miz or Logan Paul are now.

Their not really heels, just annoying people that everyone likes to hate on.

The Rock suggested he could use the same attire and Cena teased using his old theme again; I would expect he is repackaged on face value but you never know to which extent.

For the RA era that gimmick was more upper-mid card but it did transition to his main event run and that’s when he made some adjustments to his character between 06-07. If I was to take that character now and bring it back in this time, it could be hugely popular, similar to Jey Uso; this era doesn’t have solidified persona’s, you take Seth Rollins for example and he’s over for being a Kusrah, it took him years and a marriage to Becky Lynch to figure out that’s what he wanted to be.

 

[shaz619]

Cena posted a TikTok a day after EC with the basic thuganomics theme. He could very well bring it back.

Hope it’s something new, but still a possibility

Bianca showed more acting range than Rock, she should head the Hollywood Family stable with Cena and Rock.

I remember how insane Vince was when it came to divas in the 2000s, the remote would be firmly in my hand that as soon as some beghairti showed up I’d change the channel before my parents or elders walk by the TV lmao.

It’s fair to say we had a big rivalry of our own during the RA era with the Chappal in those days

 

[BunnyRabbit]

It’s fair to say we had a big rivalry of our own during the RA era with the Chappal in those days

Same Same