The Wrestling Discussion Thread

[RedwoodOriginal]

Yeah 3 mins is crazy. They been making Randy job to everyone last 2-3 years and now they make him squash someone who defo has a future in WWE (look at the massive pop he got when he first appeared in NXT)… h is a clown.

Kross was a great choice to face Randy… that too in his home of Vegas, even if he lost, it’s his freaking home town. Better for him to not show up at all than feature handing effin brass knuckles to AJ while he wrestles a brainless YouTuber who doesn’t deserve a WM spot

But his shoot promo is gold. Reminded me of that Miz moment with Daniel Bryan.

Absolutely. The guy is incredibly popular—which is quite an achievement, considering he works for TNA, which, no offense, has a very small audience. I really don’t understand what was gained by making him look like a chump? Even a 6-7 minute match, after which Randy raised his hand and didn't hit the second RKO would have been somewhat acceptable by comparison.

I also resent the implication that he should be grateful just for getting a spotlight at WrestleMania with Randy Orton. Making someone look like a jobber in front of 60K people is hardly what I’d call doing them a favor.

 

[Suleiman]

Absolutely. The guy is incredibly popular—which is quite an achievement, considering he works for TNA, which, no offense, has a very small audience. I really don’t understand what was gained by making him look like a chump? Even a 6-7 minute match, after which Randy raised his hand and didn't hit the second RKO would have been somewhat acceptable by comparison.

I also resent the implication that he should be grateful just for getting a spotlight at WrestleMania with Randy Orton. Making someone look like a jobber in front of 60K people is hardly what I’d call doing them a favor.

He also got eliminated from the NXT battle royale or whatever it was right off the bat. He literally entered the ring and was the first one thrown out lmao.

No respect.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

You're missing the point. Everyone knows TNA is not a major promotion. But to have your World Champion squashed like a bug in 3 minutes is still a bad look and creates a very negative perception around the promotion. It could have been anyone but him.

Also, the second RKO was pretty needless. Made him look like a total geek and a fool.

But that's Randy's gimmick. He RKOs everyone. He even did it to Riddle before forming a tag team with him.
I am fine it tbh. Bryan lost to Sheamus in 18 seconds and found a way to get even more over.
Although I do agree that there were better options inside WWE than Hendry for the open challenge.

 

[shaz619]

I know that people loved the Joe Hendry segment/match but I'm in the minority who didn't like this. I mean don't get me wrong, as a moment it was pretty fun and clearly got a great reaction from the crowd too. But man, as someone who doesn't watch TNA, this match made TNA look like such a third-rate promotion. That their World Champion came in only to be jobbed out and beaten within 3 minutes.

The alternative side of this is that TNA has a very small audience and getting on WrestleMania should be considered as some sort of privilege that TNA should be grateful for but I don't agree with this at all. There were a number of people who could have been in this position and it would have worked much better; beginning with Nick Aldis.

The worst part for me was the second RKO after Orton raised Hendry's hand. That made Hendry come across as a such a jobber and a geek. Which is not something I would do to the World Champion of a partner company that I am working with.

I think you can make a case for both arguments, the reason I was cool with it was because WM desperately needed a segment like this, trad booking would obviously see it as a burial and has to see things transpire straight as a whistle, in the moment it was a lot of fun and unexpected. I thought about this because in the middle of the card on other nights there was a ladder match and a title change but this will be remembered.

Alternatively maybe Jeff Hardy could have faced Orton and they coul have had Joe Hendry interrupt Austin ? Not sure if you’d see him getting a stunner as a burial as well, I thought it was such a waste having both HBK and Austin come out to announce the attendance on both nights, the latter especially likes to do a bit more then that, maybe that’s why he was like F this and got drunk before hand, I’ve never seen him ride the quad bike so fast lol

 

[shaz619]

You're missing the point. Everyone knows TNA is not a major promotion. But to have your World Champion squashed like a bug in 3 minutes is still a bad look and creates a very negative perception around the promotion. It could have been anyone but him.

Also, the second RKO was pretty needless. Made him look like a total geek and a fool.

I know what you mean but TNA have put the belt on Hendry when you could argue he’s a mid-card act, similar to Jey Uso, I think they are seeng it more as any publicity is good publicity, in pure booking terms you can defo argue a case for it making him look weak, but I’ve seen far worse & Hendry had a decent little match, I feel like Hendry put more eyeballs on TNA with that, I took it more positively, and that’s also just the nature of his gimmick, I don’t think anyone else from TNA could have pulled it off. You have to admire what TNA are willing to do to generate more attention for their brand and that’s their immediate priority these days. For example, if this was say Moose getting done like that, I would be mad, I’d want to see a more lengthy match.

 

[shaz619]

Maven is a W@nker

 

[shaz619]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1915111296388993262

 

[sweep_shot]

Maven is a W@nker

LOL.

BTW, did you see Stevie Richards's YouTube channel? It is called "The Stevie Richards Show".

The Stevie Richards Show

The Stevie Richards Show is the official home of professional wrestling legend, Stevie Richards. Join the respected veteran for a BRAND NEW EPISODE EVERY FRIDAY as he takes deep dives into his own career that spans nearly every major professional wrestling league of the past 30 years, including...

www.youtube.com

 

[shaz619]

What’s going on here:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1915204715953991978

 

[shaz619]

LOL.

BTW, did you see Stevie Richards's YouTube channel? It is called "The Stevie Richards Show".

The Stevie Richards Show

The Stevie Richards Show is the official home of professional wrestling legend, Stevie Richards. Join the respected veteran for a BRAND NEW EPISODE EVERY FRIDAY as he takes deep dives into his own career that spans nearly every major professional wrestling league of the past 30 years, including...

www.youtube.com

I haven’t see it so far to be honest, the only sort of wrestling related YT content / commentary I watch / listen to is Jim Cornette’s channel and also the equivalent podcast, is Richard’s channel a rip off of what Maven does?

 

[sweep_shot]

I haven’t see it so far to be honest, the only sort of wrestling related YT content / commentary I watch / listen to is Jim Cornette’s channel and also the equivalent podcast, is Richard’s channel a rip off of what Maven does?

I see.

Yeah. It is similar to Maven's channel. Same type of content.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

But that's Randy's gimmick. He RKOs everyone. He even did it to Riddle before forming a tag team with him.
I am fine it tbh. Bryan lost to Sheamus in 18 seconds and found a way to get even more over.
Although I do agree that there were better options inside WWE than Hendry for the open challenge.

You may be okay with it but it looks very bad to the average viewer who is seeing Hendry for the first time after hearing about him and wants to take him seriously. Bryan losing to Sheamus in 18 seconds was one of the worst booking decisions WWE has made in the last 20 years. Not everyone is Bryan and capable of coming back from that kind of a burial.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I think you can make a case for both arguments, the reason I was cool with it was because WM desperately needed a segment like this, trad booking would obviously see it as a burial and has to see things transpire straight as a whistle, in the moment it was a lot of fun and unexpected. I thought about this because in the middle of the card on other nights there was a ladder match and a title change but this will be remembered.

Alternatively maybe Jeff Hardy could have faced Orton and they coul have had Joe Hendry interrupt Austin ? Not sure if you’d see him getting a stunner as a burial as well, I thought it was such a waste having both HBK and Austin come out to announce the attendance on both nights, the latter especially likes to do a bit more then that, maybe that’s why he was like F this and got drunk before hand, I’ve never seen him ride the quad bike so fast lol

I know what you mean but TNA have put the belt on Hendry when you could argue he’s a mid-card act, similar to Jey Uso, I think they are seeng it more as any publicity is good publicity, in pure booking terms you can defo argue a case for it making him look weak, but I’ve seen far worse & Hendry had a decent little match, I feel like Hendry put more eyeballs on TNA with that, I took it more positively, and that’s also just the nature of his gimmick, I don’t think anyone else from TNA could have pulled it off. You have to admire what TNA are willing to do to generate more attention for their brand and that’s their immediate priority these days. For example, if this was say Moose getting done like that, I would be mad, I’d want to see a more lengthy match.

This is less about Hendry and more about the belt. It buries the belt even more. Whatever his status on the card may be in TNA, an average viewer or someone who does not watch TNA expects him to be a top guy if he is the World Champion. I get that it gets more attention on TNA, but is it really the right kind of attention? I find it hard to believe why anyone who hasn't seen Joe Hendry and isn't aware of his gimmick would want to tune in to watch TNA if their World Champion is getting squashed in 3 minutes. It's not like he even sang a song here, cut a promo or did anything of note in the ring. He just got a big pop on his entrance and then got squashed. In wrestling, perception is reality, and I thought this whole thing was horrible for TNA's perception.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I haven’t see it so far to be honest, the only sort of wrestling related YT content / commentary I watch / listen to is Jim Cornette’s channel and also the equivalent podcast, is Richard’s channel a rip off of what Maven does?

I have seen a few of his videos. It's not a bad channel. Some of his videos are good and give you the wrestler's insight into current matches, spots, injuries. He's also a normal person with a good understanding of the business and not a $scumbag like Maven.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Cause Cena is on his last legs and it will take a special talent to provide us great matches with Cena.

Cena looked incredibly rusty in the main-event. Some of it might just be the fact that he's pretty broken down at this age. But alot of it felt like ring rust. He was doing stuff very slowly and even his bumps looked a bit forced.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

H has considerable influence though and it’s about showing a pair of bollocks, but a) he’s incompetent and b) too selfish to ever take full advantage of his role. If Rock & Ari are sabotaging him so much, why was Cody not allowed to turn heel, H allegedly rejected that proposal and other suggestions. He is ultimately responsible for the creative direction and had months to get this right, I don’t necessarily think the main-event was a failure, but we need to consider there is no grand pay-off until it’s too late when it comes to H and what has he done in the past 365 days which tell me it’s not the case? Forget Cena/Cody for a second, you look at the event as a whole and he has made some truly diabolical decisions on this card. The only person who is screwing H is H himself, he should thank the lord the heel turn was done well in advance of the planned date because otherwise there would be very little interest in Mania, and he signed off on this to, he was boasting about it in the presser after the PPV; ‘does it feel like the road to WM now?’ he mentioned that when he was butt hurt by fans criticising why the build had been so poor for Mania, if the business is losing some steam on the way to a huge event then it’s normal for the stakeholders to intervene, there is nothing I’ve seen from H which points to him doing a great job with the event with or without his superiors bouncing him around; night 1 was a snooze fest event besides the main-event, it was like watching a special Smackdown episode until the main-event.

At the end of the day he has achieved little in the business and is like the Rock’s left ball sack when you want to compare their accomplishments, Rock never had the problem doing jobs either unlike that unprofessional parasite, I do agree they deserve criticism for hiring that 4/10 low IQ clown, you can’t put someone in that role who has a vastly overrated resume and no real world experience beyond the WWE.

I'm not saying H doesn't deserve his fair share of the blame for booking this show, but Rock has no business putting his nose where it doesn't belong. Whatever you may think of Triple H, he is the booker, while The Rock has no official creative role within the company. We need to acknowledge what an attention-wh0re and clout vampire this guy is, always inserting himself into something that has the potential to be big. Because him constantly doing this whenever he feels like it is bad for business and far more detrimental than even H's unimaginative booking philosophy.

 

[shaz619]

This is less about Hendry and more about the belt. It buries the belt even more. Whatever his status on the card may be in TNA, an average viewer or someone who does not watch TNA expects him to be a top guy if he is the World Champion. I get that it gets more attention on TNA, but is it really the right kind of attention? I find it hard to believe why anyone who hasn't seen Joe Hendry and isn't aware of his gimmick would want to tune in to watch TNA if their World Champion is getting squashed in 3 minutes. It's not like he even sang a song here, cut a promo or did anything of note in the ring. He just got a big pop on his entrance and then got squashed. In wrestling, perception is reality, and I thought this whole thing was horrible for TNA's perception.

I agree with you mostly, I just believe the whole thing wasn’t out of character for Hendry, any other TNA ‘main-eventer’ would come out looking weak but Joe has managed to get himself over from the whole thing, his social media engagement since then is through the roof and the crowd was very receptive to him and I do think Hendry has gained new fans as well from WM weekend, I posted this before not sure you read my post wouod be interested to get your thoughts on it but WWE has attracted a completely new crop of fans and a big chunk of them want to be a part of the show like they’re going to the concert, do you recall those hot smark audiences of yesteryear from WM weekend ? there are few and far between, among those guys I agree that Hendry will not gain anything, those are fans like you and me, I admit that am not going to watch TNA for Hendry either it will be for Mustafa Ali & Moose etc

From Joe’s own POV, I think he has received extra brownie points from the WWE vets for his selfless jobbing which created a memorable moment, these brownie points could pay dividends in the future to, I wonder what Bull Ray thought because he is very invested in TNA’s branding.

What I think you can question a bit more and similar to Jey Uso as well, why would you put the belt on a guy like Hendry ? That’s just my own selfish enquiry not looking into the business side of it and what I expect from my champion, I think even Mustafa Ali would be a more sort of ‘serious’ world champion, Moose did great work elevating the championship and I enjoyed his run.

I haven’t critiques this segment because at WM I am a lot more chill and don’t mind silly stuff like this and I’ve given H a pass because Hendry wasn’t on the WWE payroll, but if he was, I’d be like someone a bit more serious should be the world champion and I’d have someone without a belt be a comedy act, but H is the guy who is giving Jey Uso a strong push and this is a guy who humiliated Gunther on the grandest stage of them all. With H’s booking throw logic out the window.

I am not accepting the Jey Uso business justification when LA Knight arguably was more over then Jey at one point and that popularity was organic.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

This guy is supposed to be one of the biggest movie stars in Hollywood (allegedly). And here he is getting offended by a mark radio-host from New York who reacts to Cody Rhodes like a 5 year- ld would. This is like if Virat Kohli got offended by, and decided to respond to some Tom, Dick and Harry YouTuber.

Also, as someone famously sad, just because kayfabe is dead, doesn't mean you have to p!$$ on its grave.

 

[shaz619]

I'm not saying H doesn't deserve his fair share of the blame for booking this show, but Rock has no business putting his nose where it doesn't belong. Whatever you may think of Triple H, he is the booker, while The Rock has no official creative role within the company. We need to acknowledge what an attention-wh0re and clout vampire this guy is, always inserting himself into something that has the potential to be big. Because him constantly doing this whenever he feels like it is bad for business and far more detrimental than even H's unimaginative booking philosophy.

My thing is this though, Rock has poked his nose at the top of the card involving a couple of other workers; while I will agree to disagree with you when it comes to H’s accountability in the matter, and lets just say Rock was responsible for it all, H still booked 90% of the remaining WM card and was responsible for some of the worst booking decisions of the 21st century when it comes to Wrestlemania. Rocky is a weird guy now, but H has done more damage to this industry, so yes, Rock perhaps deserves some proportional hate, but nowhere near what H deserves.

Whatever Rock has been heavily involved with in general had yielded great interest and positive results for the most part compared to H in the recent past:

Rock: We got the Final Boss character, some of the best RAW’s on the road to WM, he built immense heat on Cody and was one of the mastermind’s behind one of the most memorable WM main-events in like 10 years. They sold out like almost 20 times in a row or something, tickets, merch, business etc was all through the roof.

A negative could be his lack of involvement this year, but H has done zilch on the road to WM without his help this year and interest compared to last year has taken a big hit along with the ticket sales.

H: Jobbed AJ Styles to Logan Paul, Jobbed Gunther to Jey Uso by submission to his own finisher; it was the equivalent of making prime ‘Perc/Peak’ Angle tapping out to an ankle lock applied by doink the clown, killed the entire momentum of the New Day after turning them heel, buried the likes of LA Knight & Austin Theory, stunting the potential of El Grande despite a setback there was no real adjustment, booked two guys who have no direction against each other on a big show in a match no one gives 2 F’s about with Drew vs Priest, took Sami Zayn off the card due to his hate for muslims and bought back Becky Hulk Hogan Lynch to win the tag titles with his favourite Lyra against one of WWE’s biggest MVP’s in the women’s division in Liv/Rodriguez only to brainlessly have them win the titles back on RAW.

Was responsible for the decision to have Travis Scott interfere in the main-event, killing all the heat Cody/Cena had during their match. And ultimately I think he failed as a leader in not being able to reach an agreement with the Rock to benefit all parties, apparently he is meant to be this great people person right, that’s only when he’s selective, if he doesn’t like someone, he can’t be professional, his 4/10 wrestling tendencies start to come out, very rarely is a former worker successful as a booker, he is one of the worst examples.

One positive, the Orton/Hendry segment imo.

And this is just this year’s event, I’m not even covering last year.

This guy also stole time from his roster with his selfish intro of WM on night 1 because the guy can’t stop loving himself and took his time at the HOF to and who is he to voice WWE’s famous then, now, forever slogan; then, now, forever an overrated 4/10, he’s not even a real McMahon, and even Stephanie is not as big a mark as this insecure fool.

This is also the year where H went out of his way to do interviews attacking the fans, guys like you & I, Rocky has never done that either, Rocky is quiet powerful now but wrestling is still in his blood and he has the IQ of a third gen talent, whatever he is fully invested in generally ends up being very good compared to H where it’s more like 90% rubbish and 10% he comes up with something good, what’s that saying again about a broken clock……..

When you consider what H has achieved for himself and the product at WM this year and also account for his past history, you can understand why I say he deserves way more hate then anybody else in WWE right now.

 

[shaz619]

This guy is supposed to be one of the biggest movie stars in Hollywood (allegedly). And here he is getting offended by a mark radio-host from New York who reacts to Cody Rhodes like a 5 year- ld would. This is like if Virat Kohli got offended by, and decided to respond to some Tom, Dick and Harry YouTuber.

Also, as someone famously sad, just because kayfabe is dead, doesn't mean you have to p!$$ on its grave.


View attachment 153795

Is this in response to Dave Legreco or something? he is like the biggest Cody cry-baby, I don’t know if Rock is having a laugh or genuinely rattled because he responded to him last year as well, Dave does the pod with someone on the WWE pay-roll so

 

[Suleiman]

My thing is this though, Rock has poked his nose at the top of the card involving a couple of other workers; while I will agree to disagree with you when it comes to H’s accountability in the matter, and lets just say Rock was responsible for it all, H still booked 90% of the remaining WM card and was responsible for some of the worst booking decisions of the 21st century when it comes to Wrestlemania. Rocky is a weird guy now, but H has done more damage to this industry, so yes, Rock perhaps deserves some proportional hate, but nowhere near what H deserves.

Whatever Rock has been heavily involved with in general had yielded great interest and positive results for the most part compared to H in the recent past:

Rock: We got the Final Boss character, some of the best RAW’s on the road to WM, he built immense heat on Cody and was one of the mastermind’s behind one of the most memorable WM main-events in like 10 years. They sold out like almost 20 times in a row or something, tickets, merch, business etc was all through the roof.

A negative could be his lack of involvement this year, but H has done zilch on the road to WM without his help this year and interest compared to last year has taken a big hit along with the ticket sales.

H: Jobbed AJ Styles to Logan Paul, Jobbed Gunther to Jey Uso by submission to his own finisher; it was the equivalent of making prime ‘Perc/Peak’ Angle tapping out to an ankle lock applied by doink the clown, killed the entire momentum of the New Day after turning them heel, buried the likes of LA Knight & Austin Theory, stunting the potential of El Grande despite a setback there was no real adjustment, booked two guys who have no direction against each other on a big show in a match no one gives 2 F’s about with Drew vs Priest, took Sami Zayn off the card due to his hate for muslims and bought back Becky Hulk Hogan Lynch to win the tag titles with his favourite Lyra against one of WWE’s biggest MVP’s in the women’s division in Liv/Rodriguez only to brainlessly have them win the titles back on RAW.

Was responsible for the decision to have Travis Scott interfere in the main-event, killing all the heat Cody/Cena had during their match. And ultimately I think he failed as a leader in not being able to reach an agreement with the Rock to benefit all parties, apparently he is meant to be this great people person right, that’s only when he’s selective, if he doesn’t like someone, he can’t be professional, his 4/10 wrestling tendencies start to come out, very rarely is a former worker successful as a booker, he is one of the worst examples.

One positive, the Orton/Hendry segment imo.

And this is just this year’s event, I’m not even covering last year.

This guy also stole time from his roster with his selfish intro of WM on night 1 because the guy can’t stop loving himself and took his time at the HOF to and who is he to voice WWE’s famous then, now, forever slogan; then, now, forever an overrated 4/10, he’s not even a real McMahon, and even Stephanie is not as big a mark as this insecure fool.

This is also the year where H went out of his way to do interviews attacking the fans, guys like you & I, Rocky has never done that either, Rocky is quiet powerful now but wrestling is still in his blood and he has the IQ of a third gen talent, whatever he is fully invested in generally ends up being very good compared to H where it’s more like 90% rubbish and 10% he comes up with something good, what’s that saying again about a broken clock……..

When you consider what H has achieved for himself and the product at WM this year and also account for his past history, you can understand why I say he deserves way more hate then anybody else in WWE right now.

Nah fr the Gunther burial is insane. Just doing the most to try and skyrocket Jey value, but it’s not believable.

Perc angle example is exactly it, or ending Undertaker streak by Evan Bourne choke slamming him at WM for the pin.

 

[shaz619]

To quote the Rock, H needs to know his role and shut his mouth.

In life in general, you need to know your place before you can progress further.

Imagine me just randomly having a go at my manager ? As if I am his dad or something, it wouldn’t really get me anywhere.

H needs to recognise who holds all the cards and work within those constraints, you’re more likely to succeed & influence your peers that way.

In Boxing terms, H isn’t the A side, he isn’t even the B side, he is the C side.

What has happened here is that H being a former worker with a huge ego, can’t be a professional when his former colleague who he use to bury for fun; now holds all the cards, H in-fact admitted to this on live TV!!!!!! who can recall that promo on SD about who calls the shots? he really took TV time to let us know that.

A toxic personality like this will always be at fault in my eyes.

 

[shaz619]

Nah fr the Gunther burial is insane. Just doing the most to try and skyrocket Jey value, but it’s not believable.

Perc angle example is exactly it, or ending Undertaker streak by Evan Bourne choke slamming him at WM for the pin.

Absolutely, these lot should be using the popularity of Jey to uplift Gunther’s stock, but they’re doing the complete opposite, Gunther in his prime tapping out in a few seconds was a horrid moment. The ME could have been better but Cody will eat again, Cena will have great matches this year am sure of it and his run will be good because it books itself (didn’t Rock suggest Cena turn heel? if he did then he helped save WM because the booking in the lead up has been utter *****), but one thing that you wont be able to recover from is Gunther tapping out like a b!tch to some punk, I don’t care how many tickets he sells.

 

[shaz619]

This is the school of thought H supports now compared to the old guard unless his own agenda’s are involved:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1915181306998411284

 

[Suleiman]

Absolutely, these lot should be using the popularity of Jey to uplift Gunther’s stock, but they’re doing the complete opposite, Gunther in his prime tapping out in a few seconds was a horrid moment. The ME could have been better but Cody will eat again, Cena will have great matches this year am sure of it and his run will be good because it books itself (didn’t Rock suggest Cena turn heel? if he did then he helped save WM because the booking in the lead up has been utter *****), but one thing that you wont be able to recover from is Gunther tapping out like a b!tch to some punk, I don’t care how many tickets he sells.

Poor Gunther has to now feud with Pat McAfee

Gunther tells it like it is irl too. Idk if you saw the clip of that new tough enough type show where he straight up tells undertaker that why is your student not doing well, aren’t you the undertaker?

Mickie James, booker and bubba Ray get awkward but taker has to given him respect for being straight up and being right.

Won’t be surprised if he told h something he didn’t want to hear and so he took the shovel out on him.

 

[Suleiman]

This is the school of thought H supports now compared to the old guard unless his own agenda’s are involved:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1915181306998411284

Austin never sells out. He wouldn’t put over someone he didn’t feel was ready, let alone selling out his integrity like this.

Counter offer: Logan pays $10 mil to eat a stunner in ring at WM. That alone was plenty of an honor for him let alone having a match at WM

 

[shaz619]

Poor Gunther has to now feud with Pat McAfee

Gunther tells it like it is irl too. Idk if you saw the clip of that new tough enough type show where he straight up tells undertaker that why is your student not doing well, aren’t you the undertaker?

Mickie James, booker and bubba Ray get awkward but taker has to given him respect for being straight up and being right.

Won’t be surprised if he told h something he didn’t want to hear and so he took the shovel out on him.

Great point, when someone stands up for themselves, Taker respects you, I didn’t watch that episode but in another, one of his students had the guts to ask him if they could use Hell’s Gate and he respected them for it. If you do anything similar with H, then you’re going to be punished, now that you mention it, I don’t know why I didn’t think of this before, Gunther is being buried for trying to protect himself and disagreeing with creative; if you had the balls to stand up to Vince, he respected you for it, he pushed CM Punk for being able to have the confidence to say it like how it is.

 

[shaz619]

Austin never sells out. He wouldn’t put over someone he didn’t feel was ready, let alone selling out his integrity like this.

Counter offer: Logan pays $10 mil to eat a stunner in ring at WM. That alone was plenty of an honor for him let alone having a match at WM

Austin’s not that desperate, and that counter offer is way better for a piece of crap like Logan Paul.

AJ Styles should just go to AEW, I hate that place but under H, I don’t see the silver lining.

 

[Suleiman]

Great point, when someone stands up for themselves, Taker respects you, I didn’t watch that episode but in another, one of his students had the guts to ask him if they could use Hell’s Gate and he respected them for it. If you do anything similar with H, then you’re going to be punished, now that you mention it, I don’t know why I didn’t think of this before, Gunther is being buried for trying to protect himself and disagreeing with creative; if you had the balls to stand up to Vince, he respected you for it, he pushed CM Punk for being able to have the confidence to say it like how it is.

Here’s the clip bro.

Undertaker as a person is what H wishes he was and to demand the respect taker does.

Am sure you can imagine how that weak H would react if Gunther as a world champion shared his opinion. He knows he can’t bully him physically, so wrote him out the story.

Otherwise, I cannot fathom why you would treat the champ you’ve been building as unbeatable over the last few years like this. We’re talking young Brock levels of build up.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

My thing is this though, Rock has poked his nose at the top of the card involving a couple of other workers; while I will agree to disagree with you when it comes to H’s accountability in the matter, and lets just say Rock was responsible for it all, H still booked 90% of the remaining WM card and was responsible for some of the worst booking decisions of the 21st century when it comes to Wrestlemania. Rocky is a weird guy now, but H has done more damage to this industry, so yes, Rock perhaps deserves some proportional hate, but nowhere near what H deserves.

Whatever Rock has been heavily involved with in general had yielded great interest and positive results for the most part compared to H in the recent past:

Rock: We got the Final Boss character, some of the best RAW’s on the road to WM, he built immense heat on Cody and was one of the mastermind’s behind one of the most memorable WM main-events in like 10 years. They sold out like almost 20 times in a row or something, tickets, merch, business etc was all through the roof.

A negative could be his lack of involvement this year, but H has done zilch on the road to WM without his help this year and interest compared to last year has taken a big hit along with the ticket sales.

H: Jobbed AJ Styles to Logan Paul, Jobbed Gunther to Jey Uso by submission to his own finisher; it was the equivalent of making prime ‘Perc/Peak’ Angle tapping out to an ankle lock applied by doink the clown, killed the entire momentum of the New Day after turning them heel, buried the likes of LA Knight & Austin Theory, stunting the potential of El Grande despite a setback there was no real adjustment, booked two guys who have no direction against each other on a big show in a match no one gives 2 F’s about with Drew vs Priest, took Sami Zayn off the card due to his hate for muslims and bought back Becky Hulk Hogan Lynch to win the tag titles with his favourite Lyra against one of WWE’s biggest MVP’s in the women’s division in Liv/Rodriguez only to brainlessly have them win the titles back on RAW.

Was responsible for the decision to have Travis Scott interfere in the main-event, killing all the heat Cody/Cena had during their match. And ultimately I think he failed as a leader in not being able to reach an agreement with the Rock to benefit all parties, apparently he is meant to be this great people person right, that’s only when he’s selective, if he doesn’t like someone, he can’t be professional, his 4/10 wrestling tendencies start to come out, very rarely is a former worker successful as a booker, he is one of the worst examples.

One positive, the Orton/Hendry segment imo.

And this is just this year’s event, I’m not even covering last year.

This guy also stole time from his roster with his selfish intro of WM on night 1 because the guy can’t stop loving himself and took his time at the HOF to and who is he to voice WWE’s famous then, now, forever slogan; then, now, forever an overrated 4/10, he’s not even a real McMahon, and even Stephanie is not as big a mark as this insecure fool.

This is also the year where H went out of his way to do interviews attacking the fans, guys like you & I, Rocky has never done that either, Rocky is quiet powerful now but wrestling is still in his blood and he has the IQ of a third gen talent, whatever he is fully invested in generally ends up being very good compared to H where it’s more like 90% rubbish and 10% he comes up with something good, what’s that saying again about a broken clock……..

When you consider what H has achieved for himself and the product at WM this year and also account for his past history, you can understand why I say he deserves way more hate then anybody else in WWE right now.

Not gonna defend the booking of the rest of the card. Barring a handful of matches it was a horrendously envisioned and booked show. And for that, you are right in that 90% or so of the blame lies squarely on H.

You make some great points, and honestly I can't say I disagree with most of what you said. But I am talking about the general principle. If it was anyone else in Triple H's position, I would have the same perspective. If you are the head-booker you should be responsible for all the plans going into the biggest show of the year like WrestleMania. Even if we forget all this, the question worth asking is was Rock getting involved really worth it? Like what was the point if we were going to get this in the end? Because I feel like all he did was confuse people and create this false expectation among the fans, who were quite literally looking at the big-screen expecting him to come out as soon as the match was over. I'm also not so sure about the Travis Scott thing because alot of people have said that Rock had something to do with that too.

Not gonna disagree with almost everything you said about H, but for me Rock's involvement just made everything so much worse. When a star of his stature getting involved should have meant much more. But then again that's what happens when you decide to insert yourself into a situation that you were never supposed to be a part of. But anyway, we can agree to disagree on this.

LOL at that Angle/Doink analogy. That's a great analogy.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Is this in response to Dave Legreco or something? he is like the biggest Cody cry-baby, I don’t know if Rock is having a laugh or genuinely rattled because he responded to him last year as well, Dave does the pod with someone on the WWE pay-roll so

LaGreca. Feels to me like he is a bit rattled. Which is funny because Busted Open is such a lame podcast. I tried listening to it a few times and its just the lamest podcast with zero interesting insights by any of these guys, including LaGreca who just shouts constantly like a mark.

Last year, it felt more like Rock was working so it was actually a bit funny. This post though feels kinda cringe.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Speaking of p!$$ing on kayfabe's grave....

@shaz619 I already know I will despise this.

Also, why am I not surprised that the guy who played a leading role in exposing the business with the curtain call is telling you "its time to lift the curtain"?

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Poor Gunther has to now feud with Pat McAfee

Gunther tells it like it is irl too. Idk if you saw the clip of that new tough enough type show where he straight up tells undertaker that why is your student not doing well, aren’t you the undertaker?

Mickie James, booker and bubba Ray get awkward but taker has to given him respect for being straight up and being right.

Won’t be surprised if he told h something he didn’t want to hear and so he took the shovel out on him.

When I was watching it, I liked the angle because of how real they tried to make it look. Then it donned on me that Gunther will probably be working a match with McAfee.

One of the cardinal rules of booking is that when you beat one of your top guys on such a big show, you either immediately put them in a high-profile program with someone else, or you just take them off TV. Vince knew this. Just look at Cena working with Brock after his WM 28 loss to The Rock. Or Cody working with Brock after his WM 39 loss to Roman. But nah, the best this genius can come up with is to have Gunther feud with the color-commentator on RAW.

What is this match supposed to accomplish exactly? Show everyone that even a non-wrestler like McAfee can knock Gunther around?

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

This is the school of thought H supports now compared to the old guard unless his own agenda’s are involved:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1915181306998411284

I wonder what would have happened if Paul offered this same deal to H.

Let's not forget how this guy prostituted the ring mat, aprons and barricades.

I'm a bit surprised that Austin didn't slap the taste out of Paul's mouth. This was a pretty disrespectful thing for this d!p$h!t to even ask Austin.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

And Cena did get cheered but that finish was certainly very cold. I don’t know why Dave can’t rate this 5* now

Don't think anyone in the crowd (myself included) was expecting the match to finish on that final pinfall. It was one the most anti-climactic finishes I have seen in a very long time.

I think even Dave will rate this one pretty low lol.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

What did you guys think of the closing segment of RAW, are we getting like a modern variant of the Dangerous Alliance ?

Am glad that Bron gets to work more closely with Heyman opposed to Triple Doofus though and this is a good move for him.

That's an interesting take. Definitely feels like Paul Heyman-focused stable, where Heyman will be at the center at of alot of it. Which would be the smart thing to do because neither Rollins nor Bron are lighting the world on fire with their promos. Only question is how many members will be added? Assuming its Heyman who is booking this and not H or Tony 'Nose Candy' Khan, I think we will get a slow reveal of the rest of the members.

Just fantasy booking here, but one thing I can see happening is that you get Punk & Roman v Rollins & Bron at Backlash. And that is where the third member comes out of the crowd in like a ski mask and a black hoodie and interferes to cost Punk & Roman the match...right as they are about to win it. And then you have the reveal. That would be a cool and impactful way to introduce the third member.

I just hope he isn't wearing a motorcycle helmet or they turn the lights off lol. Because we know how much Heyman loved doing that back in the day.

 

[Suleiman]

When I was watching it, I liked the angle because of how real they tried to make it look. Then it donned on me that Gunther will probably be working a match with McAfee.

One of the cardinal rules of booking is that when you beat one of your top guys on such a big show, you either immediately put them in a high-profile program with someone else, or you just take them off TV. Vince knew this. Just look at Cena working with Brock after his WM 28 loss to The Rock. Or Cody working with Brock after his WM 39 loss to Roman. But nah, the best this genius can come up with is to have Gunther feud with the color-commentator on RAW.

What is this match supposed to accomplish exactly? Show everyone that even a non-wrestler like McAfee can knock Gunther around?

You know the sad thing is McAfee has more credibility as a former NFL player like Roman or Rock, so at least the physicality is more believable than pillow punching YouTuber Logan Paul.

But yeah in the wrestling verse he’s a mere commentator, and has no business in this.

H definitely knows how to kill stars. No wonder this WM consisted of only main event players created by Vince.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

You know the sad thing is McAfee has more credibility as a former NFL player like Roman or Rock, so at least the physicality is more believable than pillow punching YouTuber Logan Paul.

But yeah in the wrestling verse he’s a mere commentator, and has no business in this.

H definitely knows how to kill stars. No wonder this WM consisted of only main event players created by Vince.

So much for making new stars.

 

[Rana]

Came across again after years.

Seems like HBK and indirectly HHH always had a lot of respect for Sting even though there are false rumours about Sting worried about Hunter burying him in WWE. They would never do that to this icon!

Great to see these guys finding faith and God.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Came across again after years.

Seems like HBK and indirectly HHH always had a lot of respect for Sting even though there are false rumours about Sting worried about Hunter burying him in WWE. They would never do that to this icon!

Great to see these guys finding faith and God.

What rumors? Hunter did bury Sting in his first match in WWE at WrestleMania 31.

What logical reason is there behind beating a guy in his first match in a company? Especially someone like Sting who is one of the most instantly recognizable pro-wresters on the planet?

Only reason Shawn likes Sting is because they are both a bunch of religious nuts.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

The type of stuff Michaels has done and gotten away with in his first WWE stint, I reckon he should spend his whole life praying to God for forgiveness. He was without a doubt, the worst. Even Hogan (as big of a pr!ck and politician as he was) never pulled the kind of stuff that Michaels pulled. What's surprising his how Vince let him get away with it? Because Shawn was never that big of a draw, though that probably had more to do with where the company was at that point.

One of the greatest wrestlers this business has ever seen, but also one of the biggest pr!cks this business has ever seen.

 

[Rana]

What rumors? Hunter did bury Sting in his first match in WWE at WrestleMania 31.

What logical reason is there behind beating a guy in his first match in a company? Especially someone like Sting who is one of the most instantly recognizable pro-wresters on the planet?

Only reason Shawn likes Sting is because they are both a bunch of religious nuts.

Sting would not return if he felt it was going to be a burial. He’s very particular about what he feels when it comes to booking. The guy gave up millions of dollars in his prime years from 2005 when Booker and Goldberg went and cashed in at WWE. He clearly wasn’t after the money. I think it was respectful of him to not just go over one of the Company’s greats in his first match with the company.

 

[Suleiman]

lol

 

[Rana]

The type of stuff Michaels has done and gotten away with in his first WWE stint, I reckon he should spend his whole life praying to God for forgiveness. He was without a doubt, the worst. Even Hogan (as big of a pr!ck and politician as he was) never pulled the kind of stuff that Michaels pulled. What's surprising his how Vince let him get away with it? Because Shawn was never that big of a draw, though that probably had more to do with where the company was at that point.

One of the greatest wrestlers this business has ever seen, but also one of the biggest pr!cks this business has ever seen.

What did Shawn do that his predecessors did not?

It’s the nature of the business. Shawn and Marty Janetty were laid off because of backstage politics as they couldn’t make an impression on the dressing room. They were finished. He comes into the business and sees Hogan, Rick, Bret etc all pushing their weight and getting things the way they want. They all leave (besides Bret) whilst Shawn and Co are still loyal to the company. There was easy money to be made at WCW but Shawn and Taker stuck it out for WWF and Vince.

There were times when guys who hadn’t done as much work as he had for the company were given their title push before he did, and they too left the company whilst Shawn carried on working night in night out, and doing the house shows as well.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Sting would not return if he felt it was going to be a burial. He’s very particular about what he feels when it comes to booking. The guy gave up millions of dollars in his prime years from 2005 when Booker and Goldberg went and cashed in at WWE. He clearly wasn’t after the money. I think it was respectful of him to not just go over one of the Company’s greats in his first match with the company.

It's all about where he was at that point in his career in 2015. He didn't want to work full-time and was okay doing a part-time deal. His biggest creative motivation for coming to WWE was wrestling a match with The Undertaker, which they promised him but never gave him.

On the whole his run was an epic disaster because after the H burial, Rollins damn near killed him off the buckle bomb and that was pretty much it for his run in WWE.

AEW actually deserves the most credit for booking him like a legend, having regard for his health and safety and giving him a memorable send-off.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

What did Shawn do that his predecessors did not?

It’s the nature of the business. Shawn and Marty Janetty were laid off because of backstage politics as they couldn’t make an impression on the dressing room. They were finished. He comes into the business and sees Hogan, Rick, Bret etc all pushing their weight and getting things the way they want. They all leave (besides Bret) whilst Shawn and Co are still loyal to the company. There was easy money to be made at WCW but Shawn and Taker stuck it out for WWF and Vince.

There were times when guys who hadn’t done as much work as he had for the company were given their title push before he did, and they too left the company whilst Shawn carried on working night in night out, and doing the house shows as well.

Where do you wanna begin?

- His entire role in the Montreal Screwjob.
- Lying on TV by implying Bret was having an affair with Sunny, something that created issues in Bret's personal life.
- Insisting he should beat the British Bulldog for the European Title in England, when Bulldog was booked to win, and had dedicated the match to his dying sister who was in the crowd that night.
- Lying about injuries and refusing to do jobs time and time again because he didn't want to put certain guys over. After which they usually had to strip him of the title.
- Having Marty Jannetty fired after lying and saying he was intoxicated after a match. He was rehired 4 months after that.
- Sabotaging Vader's push by burying him to Vince after their SummerSlam 1996 match.
- Telling Bret to "get the f out of his ring" after their WrestleMania Iron-Man match.
- Getting Viscera fired after seeing him do a line of coke backstage. Eventhough he himself was just about the biggest druggie backstage.
- Exposing the business with the Curtain Call.

And this is just stuff till 1998...

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

There's also the infamous story of Shawn saying he wouldn't job to Austin at WM 14, after which Taker apparently came to him and told him that he better or he would be waiting at the entrance to kick his a$$ after the match was over.