The Wrestling Discussion Thread

[RedwoodOriginal]

Tag team booking has been atrocious yes.
Dudleys and Hardys had the personality and connection with the crowd something MMG lack severely. They just seem like two guys wrestling. The audience have no reason to care for them. When you look at Street Profits who have also been booked erratically (from getting a heel turn for 1 month to a face turn and then disappearing for a year) yet when they do their stuff the crowd reacts, something you don't see with MMG now. Even Pretty Deadly, you look at them and the crowd reacts for their hot tags and the sequences.

I don't think you've seen enough of MCMG in TNA. These guys are good enough to get reactions on their in-ring work alone. But for that to happen you actually have to book them in wrestling matches and storylines that mean anything. How many PLEs have they been on since coming in? I can think of only one. They've been involved in this cold feud with DIY and Profits for what feels like eternity where nothing has been done to make them stand-out or feel unique. They are already lost in the shuffle. You can't book someone like another one of the guys on the roster and expect people to care about them.

Triple H does not know how to book tag team wrestling. He was lucky to have a great group of tag teams in NXT at one point. But on his own he doesn't have the brains to make tag team wrestling matter.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I don't think you've seen enough of MCMG in TNA. These guys are good enough to get reactions on their in-ring work alone. But for that to happen you actually have to book them in wrestling matches and storylines that mean anything. How many PLEs have they been on since coming in? I can think of only one. They've been involved in this cold feud with DIY and Profits for what feels like eternity where nothing has been done to make them stand-out or feel unique. They are already lost in the shuffle. You can't book someone like another one of the guys on the roster and expect people to care about them.

Triple H does not know how to book tag team wrestling. He was lucky to have a great group of tag teams in NXT at one point. But on his own he doesn't have the brains to make tag team wrestling matter.

I only followed TNA's singles divison for a time. so yeah, i wasn't much aware of them.

 

[Kianig89]

 

[Ball Blazer]

WWE Superstar Seth Rollins wears $13,500 coat by Pakistani brand


WWE superstar Seth Rollins made a striking appearance on the 28 April edition episode of WWE Raw, wearing a custom $13,500 coat designed by Pakistani fashion label Rastah.

The look marks a notable moment for the Lahore-based brand, which continues to gain recognition on the international stage.

The garment, named “The Golden Peacock Coat”, is crafted from blue velvet and features intricate dabka embroidery—a traditional South Asian embellishment technique.

Rollins paired the coat with flared white trousers and a fitted shirt, in keeping with his flamboyant in-ring persona. The item is listed as made-to-order on Rastah’s official website, with matching pants available for an additional $920.

Founded in 2018, Rastah has steadily built a global following, with previous clients including Zayn Malik, Justin Bieber, and Timothée Chalamet. The brand is known for blending contemporary streetwear silhouettes with South Asian textiles and craft traditions.

This is not the first time Rastah has debuted high-value pieces. The brand’s online store also lists a $14,500 wool coat among its premium offerings.

According to Creative Director Zain Ahmed, the label sources some of its materials from the same Italian mills that produce fabrics for luxury fashion houses such as Dior and Valentino.

While Rastah's designs often incorporate cultural motifs from Pakistan, the brand has primarily positioned itself for global markets.

he WWE appearance serves as a major endorsement, offering further visibility in the international fashion and entertainment arenas.

Seth Rollins, known for his bold fashion choices, has previously collaborated with various designers to create statement looks. His decision to wear Rastah is seen as part of an ongoing effort to merge high fashion with professional wrestling entertainment.

Source: Tribune.com.pk

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

We go on about the booking and the wrestlers but sometimes we need to acknowledge that fans can be a bunch of dopes aswell.

The way they turned on Sami midway during the match last night was kinda pathetic to see. Simply because he was being attacked by a bad@ss, cool heel. Its stuff like this that hurts the credibility of the babyfaces. And while on alot of cases you can blame booking, can't say the same here because Sami cut an impassioned promo on the mic before the match and was very much getting cheered all throughout the night.

On the positive side, it gives me hope that he will be World Champion in the future. Although knowing Triple H's booking style I just hope we don't have to wait till he's 50.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

WWE Superstar Seth Rollins wears $13,500 coat by Pakistani brand
View attachment 154021

WWE superstar Seth Rollins made a striking appearance on the 28 April edition episode of WWE Raw, wearing a custom $13,500 coat designed by Pakistani fashion label Rastah.

The look marks a notable moment for the Lahore-based brand, which continues to gain recognition on the international stage.

The garment, named “The Golden Peacock Coat”, is crafted from blue velvet and features intricate dabka embroidery—a traditional South Asian embellishment technique.

Rollins paired the coat with flared white trousers and a fitted shirt, in keeping with his flamboyant in-ring persona. The item is listed as made-to-order on Rastah’s official website, with matching pants available for an additional $920.

Founded in 2018, Rastah has steadily built a global following, with previous clients including Zayn Malik, Justin Bieber, and Timothée Chalamet. The brand is known for blending contemporary streetwear silhouettes with South Asian textiles and craft traditions.

This is not the first time Rastah has debuted high-value pieces. The brand’s online store also lists a $14,500 wool coat among its premium offerings.

According to Creative Director Zain Ahmed, the label sources some of its materials from the same Italian mills that produce fabrics for luxury fashion houses such as Dior and Valentino.

While Rastah's designs often incorporate cultural motifs from Pakistan, the brand has primarily positioned itself for global markets.

he WWE appearance serves as a major endorsement, offering further visibility in the international fashion and entertainment arenas.

Seth Rollins, known for his bold fashion choices, has previously collaborated with various designers to create statement looks. His decision to wear Rastah is seen as part of an ongoing effort to merge high fashion with professional wrestling entertainment.

Source: Tribune.com.pk

Lol, they could have chosen a better model for this coat, it looks like it's hanging on a wooden stick with a human head on top.

 

[Suleiman]

We go on about the booking and the wrestlers but sometimes we need to acknowledge that fans can be a bunch of dopes aswell.

The way they turned on Sami midway during the match last night was kinda pathetic to see. Simply because he was being attacked by a bad@ss, cool heel. Its stuff like this that hurts the credibility of the babyfaces. And while on alot of cases you can blame booking, can't say the same here because Sami cut an impassioned promo on the mic before the match and was very much getting cheered all throughout the night.

On the positive side, it gives me hope that he will be World Champion in the future. Although knowing Triple H's booking style I just hope we don't have to wait till he's 50.

They need to go all in and make Sami the second version of Mohammad Hasan. It’s time.

 

[shaz619]

We go on about the booking and the wrestlers but sometimes we need to acknowledge that fans can be a bunch of dopes aswell.

The way they turned on Sami midway during the match last night was kinda pathetic to see. Simply because he was being attacked by a bad@ss, cool heel. Its stuff like this that hurts the credibility of the babyfaces. And while on alot of cases you can blame booking, can't say the same here because Sami cut an impassioned promo on the mic before the match and was very much getting cheered all throughout the night.

On the positive side, it gives me hope that he will be World Champion in the future. Although knowing Triple H's booking style I just hope we don't have to wait till he's 50.

I would agree with you in normal circumstances, but H is a low IQ incompetent booker who is dumb enough to book Sami into a corner, Bron is currently in his Roman Reigns Shield phase where the fans are cheering him on despite him being a heel. There’s a lot wrong with this when Bron is not generating enough heat at this point even against someone like Sami; that could be corrected, so it’s all a bit premature, Sami perhaps has been given the job to make Bron look ‘strong’, and while fans are nonces, if you’re getting cheered as a heel against Sami Zayn of all talents then questions need to be asked regarding the creative. I haven’t watched it but it seems like they went nuts for the spear again? they’ve been popping for that move for weeks, if Bron is going to be a heel and they didn’t want to wait for him to build heat in this new role, why would you do something which fans have been cheering? They literally do it on every RAW, what happened to the good ol lefts and rights, or just watch what Lesnar use to do when he made his debut on SD when it comes to using your physicality to illicit a negative reaction.

And agree, don’t have high hopes of a Sami WHC reign, that belt though desperately needs CM Punk imo

 

[shaz619]

I watched the TLC, what a great human demolition derby, the MCMG’s are the best modern baby face tag teams for a long time; and what a talent is Chris Sabin, his technique is beautiful, it’s the small adjustments that pop your eyes, he makes the splash a devastating manoeuvre; these fellas are very creative, and work a bit differently to everyone else. Street Profits are much better in their heel roles and very athletic, but they got that quintessential WWE style; Gargano and Ciampa have good chemistry but they have been struggling for an identity on the main roster and have lacked personality, which is a shame because we know Ciampa especially is capable of more. Gargano is just bland, though if he punches above his waist he can play a goofball pretty well. Fair to say the lot of them really needed this match to mask the deficiencies and should build on the heat now.

 

[shaz619]

They need to go all in and make Sami the second version of Mohammad Hasan. It’s time.

They need to give Sami the yaaah yaaaaa yaah yaaaaah yaaaa theme song as well, he should come out waving a flag with a watermelon on it, maybe Jimmy Hart should do it his flag waving skills are pretty good for a 100 year old going by the recent past

 

[shaz619]

I only followed TNA's singles divison for a time. so yeah, i wasn't much aware of them.

Did you not know about Chris Sabin even? He’s a TNA legend bro and was one of the last champs which best represented the X-Division, the TNA branding has moved away from that and the title is the equivalent of the IC championship now.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Did you not know about Chris Sabin even? He’s a TNA legend bro and was one of the last champs which best represented the X-Division, the TNA branding has moved away from that and the title is the equivalent of the IC championship now.

I know about both Chris Sabin and Alex Shelley. I know they are very good technical wrestlers. Just they are failing to connect with the crowd in WWE. The audience of TNA is miniscule compared to WWE and them having not been built up well has added to it. Just haven't followed TNA tag team scene like I did for their World Championship and X division.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

We go on about the booking and the wrestlers but sometimes we need to acknowledge that fans can be a bunch of dopes aswell.

The way they turned on Sami midway during the match last night was kinda pathetic to see. Simply because he was being attacked by a bad@ss, cool heel. Its stuff like this that hurts the credibility of the babyfaces. And while on alot of cases you can blame booking, can't say the same here because Sami cut an impassioned promo on the mic before the match and was very much getting cheered all throughout the night.

On the positive side, it gives me hope that he will be World Champion in the future. Although knowing Triple H's booking style I just hope we don't have to wait till he's 50.

My question is what's the point of bringing Sami back from that kayfabe injury just after 1 month. Should have kept him off the tv for a few months more.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I would agree with you in normal circumstances, but H is a low IQ incompetent booker who is dumb enough to book Sami into a corner, Bron is currently in his Roman Reigns Shield phase where the fans are cheering him on despite him being a heel. There’s a lot wrong with this when Bron is not generating enough heat at this point even against someone like Sami; that could be corrected, so it’s all a bit premature, Sami perhaps has been given the job to make Bron look ‘strong’, and while fans are nonces, if you’re getting cheered as a heel against Sami Zayn of all talents then questions need to be asked regarding the creative. I haven’t watched it but it seems like they went nuts for the spear again? they’ve been popping for that move for weeks, if Bron is going to be a heel and they didn’t want to wait for him to build heat in this new role, why would you do something which fans have been cheering? They literally do it on every RAW, what happened to the good ol lefts and rights, or just watch what Lesnar use to do when he made his debut on SD when it comes to using your physicality to illicit a negative reaction.

And agree, don’t have high hopes of a Sami WHC reign, that belt though desperately needs CM Punk imo

Hopefully Sami is winning the title next year!

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

They need to go all in and make Sami the second version of Mohammad Hasan. It’s time.

I disagree. I think he is the quintessential babyface. Not only does he excel as one on the mic but he also knows how to work like one with his selling , fighting from underneath and making the big comeback. There is more upside to him as a babyface than a heel.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I would agree with you in normal circumstances, but H is a low IQ incompetent booker who is dumb enough to book Sami into a corner, Bron is currently in his Roman Reigns Shield phase where the fans are cheering him on despite him being a heel. There’s a lot wrong with this when Bron is not generating enough heat at this point even against someone like Sami; that could be corrected, so it’s all a bit premature, Sami perhaps has been given the job to make Bron look ‘strong’, and while fans are nonces, if you’re getting cheered as a heel against Sami Zayn of all talents then questions need to be asked regarding the creative. I haven’t watched it but it seems like they went nuts for the spear again? they’ve been popping for that move for weeks, if Bron is going to be a heel and they didn’t want to wait for him to build heat in this new role, why would you do something which fans have been cheering? They literally do it on every RAW, what happened to the good ol lefts and rights, or just watch what Lesnar use to do when he made his debut on SD when it comes to using your physicality to illicit a negative reaction.

And agree, don’t have high hopes of a Sami WHC reign, that belt though desperately needs CM Punk imo

Cheering the spear is one thing. These people were actively cheering for Sami's demise chanting 'one more time' after he hit the spear. Which was a bit strange considering the promo Sami had cut on the mic earlier in the night, and the positive reactions he had been getting from these same people.

It's definitely bad booking, booking him into the corner like this. You should have known that these guys just did this big angle and are cool heels that are likely going to be cheered, but still I would say the fans chanting 'one more time' is a bit dumb on their part no matter how cool Bron feels right now.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I watched the TLC, what a great human demolition derby, the MCMG’s are the best modern baby face tag teams for a long time; and what a talent is Chris Sabin, his technique is beautiful, it’s the small adjustments that pop your eyes, he makes the splash a devastating manoeuvre; these fellas are very creative, and work a bit differently to everyone else. Street Profits are much better in their heel roles and very athletic, but they got that quintessential WWE style; Gargano and Ciampa have good chemistry but they have been struggling for an identity on the main roster and have lacked personality, which is a shame because we know Ciampa especially is capable of more. Gargano is just bland, though if he punches above his waist he can play a goofball pretty well. Fair to say the lot of them really needed this match to mask the deficiencies and should build on the heat now.

Thought the Machine Guns did an amazing job putting these teams over and making this match what it was. I think they probably had alot to do with putting together the structure of the match because this wasn't like your average car crash ladder match. Still waiting for someone to explain why this match wasn't on WrestleMania? Especially considering some of the stuff that was. Agree with your comments. Not big on the Street Profits but they have definitely improved and grown on me slightly more. And I don't get Johnny Gargano at all. He is just about the blandest, most uninteresting wrestler on their roster. Even in a tag team he doesn't add much. For some reason this doesn't feel like the DIY that was having those matches with FTR on those Takeovers.

 

[shaz619]

I know about both Chris Sabin and Alex Shelley. I know they are very good technical wrestlers. Just they are failing to connect with the crowd in WWE. The audience of TNA is miniscule compared to WWE and them having not been built up well has added to it. Just haven't followed TNA tag team scene like I did for their World Championship and X division.

You can say that about the entire tag team division in the WWE, H hasn’t been able to get the most out of them; I would argue the hiring of the MCMG’s has somewhat masked that because they are working extremely hard to keep the division relevant and interesting, they are easily the MVP’s in the division right now and they’ve single handedly generated some heat for H, it’s up to him what he does with that now….

 

[shaz619]

Thought the Machine Guns did an amazing job putting these teams over and making this match what it was. I think they probably had alot to do with putting together the structure of the match because this wasn't like your average car crash ladder match. Still waiting for someone to explain why this match wasn't on WrestleMania? Especially considering some of the stuff that was. Agree with your comments. Not big on the Street Profits but they have definitely improved and grown on me slightly more. And I don't get Johnny Gargano at all. He is just about the blandest, most uninteresting wrestler on their roster. Even in a tag team he doesn't add much. For some reason this doesn't feel like the DIY that was having those matches with FTR on those Takeovers.

H is clueless, he can’t differentiate between dev and ME booking, DIY have been working cold match after cold match, you need to hit the reset button and start from scratch instead of expecting 90% of your audience to be aware of what the 10% know. Yes, if you gave a crap about the tag division you would have found a spot for these guys on the card, there was plenty of opportunity on both nights really.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

H is clueless, he can’t differentiate between dev and ME booking, DIY have been working cold match after cold match, you need to hit the reset button and start from scratch instead of expecting 90% of your audience to be aware of what the 10% know. Yes, if you gave a crap about the tag division you would have found a spot for these guys on the card, there was plenty of opportunity on both nights really.

Also booking tag teams when they appear once and then the storyline picks up after 3 weeks isn't helping. They need to hand the reigns of booking tag team storylines to someone else.

 

[Suleiman]

surprised triple kutta didn’t give his HoF award to Logan Paul. Should change WWE to PWE Prime Wrestling Entertainment

 

[Suleiman]

In a way this Logan Jey feud has channeled and diverted all the hate away from Jey and toward Logan. Both are though still.

 

[shaz619]

In a way this Logan Jey feud has channeled and diverted all the hate away from Jey and toward Logan. Both are though still.

It was a smart move from the weasel to prolong Jey’s face run as champion.

 

[shaz619]

On the final segment of RAW now, this crowd is a bit weird/thick @RedwoodOriginal Seth couldn’t generate much heat during his promos and they were not really that receptive to any of the major baby faces. It’s like they woke up and attended the event, I don’t know what part they were in but for someone like H who worked closely with Vince, it’s pretty idiotic to not learn anything from him, Vince would account for towns like these in his booking, even if it meant ripping the 10 year plan apart.

 

[shaz619]

Sami cut that promo on the WHC, lets hope we are into the 5th year of his 5 year booking plan

 

[shaz619]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1917664772130062457

 

[The_KING]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1917664772130062457

That’s my GOAT

 

[BunnyRabbit]

On the final segment of RAW now, this crowd is a bit weird/thick @RedwoodOriginal Seth couldn’t generate much heat during his promos and they were not really that receptive to any of the major baby faces. It’s like they woke up and attended the event, I don’t know what part they were in but for someone like H who worked closely with Vince, it’s pretty idiotic to not learn anything from him, Vince would account for towns like these in his booking, even if it meant ripping the 10 year plan apart.

Sami should have kept off tv for 1-2 months more. They should have sold his neck injury more than just 1 month lay off.

 

[shaz619]

Sami should have kept off tv for 1-2 months more. They should have sold his neck injury more than just 1 month lay off.

Very rarely will they have any talent sell for 1 month let alone 2 months in this era, Sami got written out because he most likely wanted the month of Ramadan off; as punishment from H, he took him off Wrestlemania and that’s something Sami just accepted.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Very rarely will they have any talent sell for 1 month let alone 2 months in this era, Sami got written out because he most likely wanted the month of Ramadan off; as punishment from H, he took him off Wrestlemania and that’s something Sami just accepted.

It's just that neck injuries should be sold more seriously. They took Randy out for 3-4 months and even though it felt a little too long due to Trips booking style, it made sense. Sami recovering after just 1 month here makes Randy look like glass.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Not good with releasing Braun and Cora. Braun was poorly used by Trips. Cora was pretty over with fans

 

[shaz619]

It's just that neck injuries should be sold more seriously. They took Randy out for 3-4 months and even though it felt a little too long due to Trips booking style, it made sense. Sami recovering after just 1 month here makes Randy look like glass.

They will never give someone more than a few weeks off to sell, it’s usually due to requested leave or an actual injury.

 

[shaz619]

Not good with releasing Braun and Cora. Braun was poorly used by Trips. Cora was pretty over with fans

Apparently Cora tweeted about Becky Hogan a few months ago, otherwise I don’t see how they can justify this one. H is clueless when using Heavyweights, they bought Omos back from him having a good run in Japan just to sit on the shelf. Dikota Kai is surprising to.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Unpopular opinion but WWE killed off what could’ve been one of their most iconic characters with the OG John Cena, the chain-wearing, mic-dropping, ruthless aggression-era Cena.

Man had the drip, the attitude. Switched between heel & face like butter. Crowd loved him BOTH ways. No corporate push, he earned it all organically.

They killed his original authentic character and pushed HLR Cena down our throats. Merch got kiddish, character got boring mic work wasn't the same. Adults turned on him. Became the most booed “good guy” ever.

Sure, now we respect the man for his insane dedication, but let’s not pretend WWE didn’t bury a version of Cena that could’ve been legendary.

Before the heel turn i was always hoping for surprise OG Cena entrances, with the OG Chain Gang Basic Thuganomics song. Taking over Earth , still kicking in Uranus!

Let’s be real, wrestling fans have always had more love for villains who kept it real. Its been a crazy give & take, they gave Cena everything - a WR 17 titles and yet they killed his original character.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

 

[shaz619]

Unpopular opinion but WWE killed off what could’ve been one of their most iconic characters with the OG John Cena, the chain-wearing, mic-dropping, ruthless aggression-era Cena.

Man had the drip, the attitude. Switched between heel & face like butter. Crowd loved him BOTH ways. No corporate push, he earned it all organically.

They killed his original authentic character and pushed HLR Cena down our throats. Merch got kiddish, character got boring mic work wasn't the same. Adults turned on him. Became the most booed “good guy” ever.

Sure, now we respect the man for his insane dedication, but let’s not pretend WWE didn’t bury a version of Cena that could’ve been legendary.

Before the heel turn i was always hoping for surprise OG Cena entrances, with the OG Chain Gang Basic Thuganomics song. Taking over Earth , still kicking in Uranus!

Let’s be real, wrestling fans have always had more love for villains who kept it real. Its been a crazy give & take, they gave Cena everything - a WR 17 titles and yet they killed his original character.

View attachment 154127

I loved that OG heel rapper character,I was also in attendance when Cena made a surprise return at WM 35 as the Dr of Thugonomics, everything you said is true, just listen to the pop for that character in a stadium, MetLife 85k+ were going bananas and it was my favourite moment of the night. But once all the kids joined the Chain Gang, Vince was never going to turn back due to the $$$$$$, and the rest is history because Cena ended up becoming arguably the best WWE main-eventer of all time, he certainly was due to the longevity. In an alternate universe, and Cena was utilised in a similar manner as Orton, potentially we could have seen a return to that character, but even when you look at Orton, he never returned to his legendary ‘legend killer’ persona either, apart from Taker, I don’t think these starts could get away with returning to the OG persona because the upside is a nostalgia act in the booking hierarchy, and that character Cena had was special and perfect for the time in the early 2000’s, imagine someone was doing a rapper gimmick now, what would they rap? this:

Then again, I have been disproved by Jey Uso

 

[shaz619]

I watched the CM Punk episode, that was really good and as much as I despise H, it’s heartwarming to see two mortal enemies hug it out.

 

[shaz619]

People disliked how Vince ran things, but ultimately it was a family run business, he largely took care of talent and respected the sanctity of the squared circle. You’ve already seen how TKO treats the UFC employees, it’s going to be much worse for WWE, am talking the average joe is going to be worse, and as for the talent, I think we’re going to see some brutal chopping & changing, hirings wont necessarily be due to creative, but driven by corporate; acquiring so and so in-order to stunt the competition, and even having them sit on the bench or bring them in to do jobs, in instances where they do have creative then those in dev and at lower levels in the organisation will be cut to fund the contracts. Wrestlemania wasn’t as big a spectacle as it could have been, they cut the production budget and raised ticket prices to extortionate proportions , at WM 35 I had either the silver or bronze package and the price of my packacge was lower then the cost of staying in same hotel in time square over a similar length of stay, even at that time I said that Vince took care of his fans, I am actually not going to consider going to the live RAW planned in my city if the prices are ridiculous which I expect them to be. TKO’s mission is to please the shareholders until they decide to sell the WWE off, I question if they have long term interests in the pro wrestling space.

 

[sweep_shot]

I was listening to John Cena's heel promo while driving. I was so consumed by it that I accidentally ran a red light.

I may now get a red light camera ticket (I hope not).

Looks like I didn't get the ticket. Either the camera was not working or police decided to give me a pass. Alhamdulillah.

John Cena's heel turn almost cost me $325. I need to be careful next time.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Apparently Cora tweeted about Becky Hogan a few months ago, otherwise I don’t see how they can justify this one. H is clueless when using Heavyweights, they bought Omos back from him having a good run in Japan just to sit on the shelf. Dikota Kai is surprising to.

Dakota was never able to forge a connection with the crowd. She was a pretty good worker though.
Yes if Becky is behind this, she needs to be called out. This much power is never good for an individual.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

People disliked how Vince ran things, but ultimately it was a family run business, he largely took care of talent and respected the sanctity of the squared circle. You’ve already seen how TKO treats the UFC employees, it’s going to be much worse for WWE, am talking the average joe is going to be worse, and as for the talent, I think we’re going to see some brutal chopping & changing, hirings wont necessarily be due to creative, but driven by corporate; acquiring so and so in-order to stunt the competition, and even having them sit on the bench or bring them in to do jobs, in instances where they do have creative then those in dev and at lower levels in the organisation will be cut to fund the contracts. Wrestlemania wasn’t as big a spectacle as it could have been, they cut the production budget and raised ticket prices to extortionate proportions , at WM 35 I had either the silver or bronze package and the price of my packacge was lower then the cost of staying in same hotel in time square over a similar length of stay, even at that time I said that Vince took care of his fans, I am actually not going to consider going to the live RAW planned in my city if the prices are ridiculous which I expect them to be. TKO’s mission is to please the shareholders until they decide to sell the WWE off, I question if they have long term interests in the pro wrestling space.

Even then Vince released bundles of wrestlers during the pandemic. But I agree that WWE needs an authoritative and strong figure like Vince to take care of things. Trips isn't that person. Dwayne isn't there majority of the time. Nick Khan needs to rise to the occasion

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Not good with releasing Braun and Cora. Braun was poorly used by Trips. Cora was pretty over with fans

Nah Strowman was garbage. Shocked out about Cora. That's a bad decision.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Honestly I'm glad about Braun. I have no idea why they hired him back in the first place. He's only good for putting other monsters/big men over. Seems like a bit of a doofus in real life too.He might go back to TNA.

Baszler will almost certainly end up in AEW. And tbh, I think that's the best place for her. She will find more popularity with that audience than she did in WWE. They can even have her reunite with Undisputed Era.

Cora Jade might end up in AEW too. And that's really unfortunate. Because she was good enough to be a big star in WWE. I could easily have seen her in a Liv Morgan-like position in the future.

Dakota Kai is a good wrestler. But I'm not sure if she was ever moving up the card. Still I can think of numerous women on their roster that I would have released before her. Like, how can anyone explain why B-Fab or Maxine Dupri are there?

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Does anyone have a cooler entrance than Aleister Black?

He's a seriously underrated talent btw.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

People disliked how Vince ran things, but ultimately it was a family run business, he largely took care of talent and respected the sanctity of the squared circle. You’ve already seen how TKO treats the UFC employees, it’s going to be much worse for WWE, am talking the average joe is going to be worse, and as for the talent, I think we’re going to see some brutal chopping & changing, hirings wont necessarily be due to creative, but driven by corporate; acquiring so and so in-order to stunt the competition, and even having them sit on the bench or bring them in to do jobs, in instances where they do have creative then those in dev and at lower levels in the organisation will be cut to fund the contracts. Wrestlemania wasn’t as big a spectacle as it could have been, they cut the production budget and raised ticket prices to extortionate proportions , at WM 35 I had either the silver or bronze package and the price of my packacge was lower then the cost of staying in same hotel in time square over a similar length of stay, even at that time I said that Vince took care of his fans, I am actually not going to consider going to the live RAW planned in my city if the prices are ridiculous which I expect them to be. TKO’s mission is to please the shareholders until they decide to sell the WWE off, I question if they have long term interests in the pro wrestling space.

These guys are no good but let's not forget Vince. He released wrestlers during the pandemic, specifically gave wrestlers he wasn't going to use big contracts to sit at home just so they wouldn't go to AEW. Not to mention, he spent his entire life actively working against any chance of a wrestler's union. His business practices almost always tended to be deeply monopolistic and anti-wrestler.

Even little things like not letting Jesse Ventura do Predator unless he gave Vince "a cut", or not paying wrestlers royalties until he had to tell you the kind of the kind of person he was.

The stuff he and his daughter did to humiliate JR on TV after firing him was also deeply deplorable.

Vince had his positives but I'm not sure if I buy the whole family business angle either. It's a corporation and has been run like one ever since they went public.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Randy Orton said he is bringing back the 'Legend Killer' against Cena. Question is, will he bring back his iconic original theme for one night only?

I want the old entrance theme with the flares and posing on the stage.

 

[shaz619]

These guys are no good but let's not forget Vince. He released wrestlers during the pandemic, specifically gave wrestlers he wasn't going to use big contracts to sit at home just so they wouldn't go to AEW. Not to mention, he spent his entire life actively working against any chance of a wrestler's union. His business practices almost always tended to be deeply monopolistic and anti-wrestler.

Even little things like not letting Jesse Ventura do Predator unless he gave Vince "a cut", or not paying wrestlers royalties until he had to tell you the kind of the kind of person he was.

The stuff he and his daughter did to humiliate JR on TV after firing him was also deeply deplorable.

Vince had his positives but I'm not sure if I buy the whole family business angle either. It's a corporation and has been run like one ever since they went public.

There’s plenty of dirt to dig out on Vince to paint an image that he was the devil, we’re looking at a man who learned how cut-throat the business was first-hand, he doesn’t make the WWE a global powerhouse by himself mostly without some underhanded tactics, and lets not forget the type of environment which pushed Vince to the edge, just think how Tony Khan is taken advantage of for being overly friendly with weirdo’s who are into all sorts of random nerd, which successful promoter in the US ever played fair? Anyone in his shoes would do the same if they thought of what Vince was going to so first and with the AEW thing, it was early days, who knew how big a threat they could be, looking back he didn’t need to take them seriously but Vince is pretty ruthless with any competition & puts them on a pedestal. But that’s a completely different topic, my point was more in relation to the modern era, the WWE of the past 15 years has seen some real changes, there has been more protection for the welfare of talent, much better opportunities & untaxed bonuses, schedule is always tough but you’re not just another number in the gravy train and the fans have been treated fairly, TKO wont share the same love & passion for pro-wrestling as Vince did and that is already starting to show, and mark my words it’s going to get worse on this front.

 

[shaz619]

Honestly I'm glad about Braun. I have no idea why they hired him back in the first place. He's only good for putting other monsters/big men over. Seems like a bit of a doofus in real life too.He might go back to TNA.

Baszler will almost certainly end up in AEW. And tbh, I think that's the best place for her. She will find more popularity with that audience than she did in WWE. They can even have her reunite with Undisputed Era.

Cora Jade might end up in AEW too. And that's really unfortunate. Because she was good enough to be a big star in WWE. I could easily have seen her in a Liv Morgan-like position in the future.

Dakota Kai is a good wrestler. But I'm not sure if she was ever moving up the card. Still I can think of numerous women on their roster that I would have released before her. Like, how can anyone explain why B-Fab or Maxine Dupri are there?

The barrel might be dry on this one but Braun is arguably the best big man out there, over with the audience and very familiar with the WWE set-up, a smart booker would find ways to maximise his strengths and find a spot on the card for him, not everyone needs to be world champion or in the main-event, but you can still be involved in entertaining feuds, not everything needs to be as straight as a whistle. You need some variety in the roster, or you risk loading up your personnel with vanilla midgets who all look and work the same, it already feels that way. I would bet my life that Braun Strowman vs AJ Styles would have been a much better segment/spectacle at WM then Logan Paul vs AJ Styles, am not saying that I would book it 100%, but that kind of clash & problem poises some interesting questions; heck they put Omos in a tag team once with AJ and Omos also worked with Lesnar, it ended up being a fun segment which suspended the fans disbelief. I think that big guys in general are booked terribly in wrestling today so it’s a shame to see another go down, even more stupid to bring him back for nothing.

Cora probably got released for some public statements otherwise I don’t know why they got rid of her. And Dikota Kai is confusing to, creative can’t come up with something for her so they decide to fire her, you could do that for 70% of the roster while they are at it.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Does anyone have a cooler entrance than Aleister Black?

He's a seriously underrated talent btw.

Jeff Hardy

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Honestly I'm glad about Braun. I have no idea why they hired him back in the first place. He's only good for putting other monsters/big men over. Seems like a bit of a doofus in real life too.He might go back to TNA.

Baszler will almost certainly end up in AEW. And tbh, I think that's the best place for her. She will find more popularity with that audience than she did in WWE. They can even have her reunite with Undisputed Era.

Cora Jade might end up in AEW too. And that's really unfortunate. Because she was good enough to be a big star in WWE. I could easily have seen her in a Liv Morgan-like position in the future.

Dakota Kai is a good wrestler. But I'm not sure if she was ever moving up the card. Still I can think of numerous women on their roster that I would have released before her. Like, how can anyone explain why B-Fab or Maxine Dupri are there?

don't care about baszler.
Natalya has also been diluted to the level of Ziggler.
bfab is awful. shotzi as well. Ivy Nile always looks constipated. nikkita lyons too.

 

[shaz619]

Other rumours doing the rounds are suggesting the firings also relate to the various LGBTQ groups which the wrestlers identify with, might explain Toni Storms promo on Collision.

 

[Suleiman]

Honestly I'm glad about Braun. I have no idea why they hired him back in the first place. He's only good for putting other monsters/big men over. Seems like a bit of a doofus in real life too.He might go back to TNA.

Baszler will almost certainly end up in AEW. And tbh, I think that's the best place for her. She will find more popularity with that audience than she did in WWE. They can even have her reunite with Undisputed Era.

Cora Jade might end up in AEW too. And that's really unfortunate. Because she was good enough to be a big star in WWE. I could easily have seen her in a Liv Morgan-like position in the future.

Dakota Kai is a good wrestler. But I'm not sure if she was ever moving up the card. Still I can think of numerous women on their roster that I would have released before her. Like, how can anyone explain why B-Fab or Maxine Dupri are there?

Ye Braun personality and character wise doesn’t really have much…

Still feel bad that they used up his entire battery over the last few months jobbing to Jacob Fatu… and nothing else

Being big isn’t enough. You need to have charisma and leave an impression outside of strength.

I was a big fan of Eric Bugenhagen (Rick bugez) because I used to follow up for years on YouTube for his no bs lifting advice. I’d say p much all his big fans knew him from YouTube and we were all super proud of him when he broke into WWE.

None of us were super surprised though because he was a NCAA level athlete (iirc?) and insanely strong lifting wise, way stronger than much 90-99% of wrestlers on conventional lifts.

But more than that dude got charisma out the wazoo. And that’s what got him in imo

Unfortunately they gave him a clown gimmick. Even though they could’ve continued to develop him onward as Nikemura’s sidekick and then have the classic turn.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

@RedwoodOriginal speaking of entrances, nothing beats this guy. Never needed a mic to get massively over with the crowd.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

The barrel might be dry on this one but Braun is arguably the best big man out there, over with the audience and very familiar with the WWE set-up, a smart booker would find ways to maximise his strengths and find a spot on the card for him, not everyone needs to be world champion or in the main-event, but you can still be involved in entertaining feuds, not everything needs to be as straight as a whistle. You need some variety in the roster, or you risk loading up your personnel with vanilla midgets who all look and work the same, it already feels that way. I would bet my life that Braun Strowman vs AJ Styles would have been a much better segment/spectacle at WM then Logan Paul vs AJ Styles, am not saying that I would book it 100%, but that kind of clash & problem poises some interesting questions; heck they put Omos in a tag team once with AJ and Omos also worked with Lesnar, it ended up being a fun segment which suspended the fans disbelief. I think that big guys in general are booked terribly in wrestling today so it’s a shame to see another go down, even more stupid to bring him back for nothing.

Cora probably got released for some public statements otherwise I don’t know why they got rid of her. And Dikota Kai is confusing to, creative can’t come up with something for her so they decide to fire her, you could do that for 70% of the roster while they are at it.

Tbh, I thought they did a good enough job with him in the Bronson Reed and Jacob Fatu feuds. I don't really see how you could do much more with him than that. I think he had a feud with Omos too. That was pretty much his ceiling. Not sure if I'd be particularly excited to see AJ v Braun. In general though the era of big guys is over imo. Beyond the novelty factor, I don't think most wrestling fans want to see 6-7 foot uncoordinated giants go at it in the ring in a main-event level position. It was a purely Vince thing to begin with and in this day and age it has gotten even less relevant.

I didn't know that, but still very surprised. They invested in her heavily from the start of this NXT 2.0. To abandon that after all the progress she had made just because she made a statement doesn't fully add up. There has to be something more.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Jeff Hardy

I'm talking right now

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

There’s plenty of dirt to dig out on Vince to paint an image that he was the devil, we’re looking at a man who learned how cut-throat the business was first-hand, he doesn’t make the WWE a global powerhouse by himself mostly without some underhanded tactics, and lets not forget the type of environment which pushed Vince to the edge, just think how Tony Khan is taken advantage of for being overly friendly with weirdo’s who are into all sorts of random nerd, which successful promoter in the US ever played fair? Anyone in his shoes would do the same if they thought of what Vince was going to so first and with the AEW thing, it was early days, who knew how big a threat they could be, looking back he didn’t need to take them seriously but Vince is pretty ruthless with any competition & puts them on a pedestal. But that’s a completely different topic, my point was more in relation to the modern era, the WWE of the past 15 years has seen some real changes, there has been more protection for the welfare of talent, much better opportunities & untaxed bonuses, schedule is always tough but you’re not just another number in the gravy train and the fans have been treated fairly, TKO wont share the same love & passion for pro-wrestling as Vince did and that is already starting to show, and mark my words it’s going to get worse on this front.

Well there's unfair and then there's Vince. The guy is the biggest monopolist this business has ever seen, who singlehandedly killed the territories, WCW and just about any other competition he has ever had. Yeah, you need to be ruthless businessman to get ahead but killing the wrestling business so everyone has no choice but to accept the 'Disney' or 'McDonalds' of wrestling isn't exactly the most altruistic thing. No one can measure up to Vince's long list of indiscretions. On one hand, you have to acknowledge what he did to make wrestling so popular and his brand of wrestling so successful, but at the same time you can't ignore the role he had in killing all other types of wrestling in the US. Also feel that when all's said and done his legacy will be outweighed by the negatives over the positives. Even his booking for the past 20+ years ranged from questionable to brainless or bad. I also wouldn't say that the fans have been treated that well. I would say 2023 and 2024 were probably two years where the booking improved and there was some logic behind it. Otherwise till 2019 fans were very much sick of WWE and Vince's booking with highlights like that Fiend v Rollins match. 2020 onwards The Bloodline storyline was able to taper over alot of bad booking and poorly thought out storylines. Treatment of talent has gotten better but when you consider the kinds of profits they have been making for a number of years now, its the least they can do. IMO, I don't think things will be that much different under TKO than they were under Vince.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Ye Braun personality and character wise doesn’t really have much…

Still feel bad that they used up his entire battery over the last few months jobbing to Jacob Fatu… and nothing else

Being big isn’t enough. You need to have charisma and leave an impression outside of strength.

I was a big fan of Eric Bugenhagen (Rick bugez) because I used to follow up for years on YouTube for his no bs lifting advice. I’d say p much all his big fans knew him from YouTube and we were all super proud of him when he broke into WWE.

None of us were super surprised though because he was a NCAA level athlete (iirc?) and insanely strong lifting wise, way stronger than much 90-99% of wrestlers on conventional lifts.

But more than that dude got charisma out the wazoo. And that’s what got him in imo

Unfortunately they gave him a clown gimmick. Even though they could’ve continued to develop him onward as Nikemura’s sidekick and then have the classic turn.

He just always came across as a big, dumb meathead. Which is what he is supposed to be in real-life too I guess.

I'm actually glad that they got something out of them with the Jacob Fatu feud. Because what else could he have done on the roster?

The Rick Boogs guy had an impressive physique. But once they made him a clown it was very hard to care for him. A shame about his injury though. I remember that looked really nasty. And to have it at WrestleMania, of all places, is very unlucky.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Maybe Braun Strowman can go back to reviving Control Your Narrative with EC3 now.

If you guys don't know what that is, don't be surprised because most other people don't know what it is either. It's basically the dumbest and more cringeworthy idea that anyone has ever had for a wrestling promotion.

 

[shaz619]

Tbh, I thought they did a good enough job with him in the Bronson Reed and Jacob Fatu feuds. I don't really see how you could do much more with him than that. I think he had a feud with Omos too. That was pretty much his ceiling. Not sure if I'd be particularly excited to see AJ v Braun. In general though the era of big guys is over imo. Beyond the novelty factor, I don't think most wrestling fans want to see 6-7 foot uncoordinated giants go at it in the ring in a main-event level position. It was a purely Vince thing to begin with and in this day and age it has gotten even less relevant.

I didn't know that, but still very surprised. They invested in her heavily from the start of this NXT 2.0. To abandon that after all the progress she had made just because she made a statement doesn't fully add up. There has to be something more.

Yeah certainly he helped those guys get over and those are the sort of programs in which the upside with Braun can’t be quantified; I am not as against big men as much as others because wrestling is a place where sub 6ft guys can thrive, to me it’s about how they are sold, I think there’s a place in wrestling for most things. In the height of the golden era, I think it’s a big misconception that you didn’t need to be a good worker though. 100% more to it will be interesting to find out more, I’d like to see TNA give her a contract as she was already working there, but might not happen due to the TNA/WWE relationship; I am interested to see if they pick up any of the released talent, if they don’t then it could be a contractual thing.

 

[shaz619]

Maybe Braun Strowman can go back to reviving Control Your Narrative with EC3 now.

If you guys don't know what that is, don't be surprised because most other people don't know what it is either. It's basically the dumbest and more cringeworthy idea that anyone has ever had for a wrestling promotion.

TNA marks never stopped banging on about that and how it was the biggest void in the WWE at the top of the card, EC3 had a forgettable run when he jumped ship as well

 

[shaz619]

Well there's unfair and then there's Vince. The guy is the biggest monopolist this business has ever seen, who singlehandedly killed the territories, WCW and just about any other competition he has ever had. Yeah, you need to be ruthless businessman to get ahead but killing the wrestling business so everyone has no choice but to accept the 'Disney' or 'McDonalds' of wrestling isn't exactly the most altruistic thing. No one can measure up to Vince's long list of indiscretions. On one hand, you have to acknowledge what he did to make wrestling so popular and his brand of wrestling so successful, but at the same time you can't ignore the role he had in killing all other types of wrestling in the US. Also feel that when all's said and done his legacy will be outweighed by the negatives over the positives. Even his booking for the past 20+ years ranged from questionable to brainless or bad. I also wouldn't say that the fans have been treated that well. I would say 2023 and 2024 were probably two years where the booking improved and there was some logic behind it. Otherwise till 2019 fans were very much sick of WWE and Vince's booking with highlights like that Fiend v Rollins match. 2020 onwards The Bloodline storyline was able to taper over alot of bad booking and poorly thought out storylines. Treatment of talent has gotten better but when you consider the kinds of profits they have been making for a number of years now, its the least they can do. IMO, I don't think things will be that much different under TKO than they were under Vince.

Where would wrestling be if the territories were not killed off, we needed to move on, it had to happen, as for WCW, they shot themselves in the foot, and AEW have done the same; it’s not Vinces fault they shat their pants. If anything in the modern era, AEW has done more damage killing off every possible alternative, WWE are a big part of why TNA survived and I would argue the same for ROH and other major independent companies, they could have bought these companies anytime, the independent scene today is dog sh!te and you’re not going to find your next AJ or Bryan or Joe or Punk etc most likely they will come out of the PC. When all is said and done unless they get him for murder or rape, they will look back on the positives, that’s 90% of the fans anyway, even the IWC are already looking at him in a more positive light, when the heat dies down and you got a mediocre booker running the show this is just how it is and TKO’s shocking policy’s are not helping, we are worse off now then even before. I would take him as a booker every week over H and twice on Sunday, I would accept the bad because I am aware of the upside, I’d prefer that to a completely soulless product which may as well be booked by AI technology because that’s how dead it is, I could predict 90% off the next 12 months, now don’t get me wrong, predictability is not always bad, but 90%, that’s not the pro-wrestling I personally love, this years WM is a good reflection of where we are, and shafting their employees & fans is not sustainable, it wont last forever due to the nature of the business and the UFC is a completely different product.

 

[shaz619]

What technique man even in that phase of his life:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1919131031392727400

 

[shaz619]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1919091390505439654

Both are in incredible shape so hard to believe, but it’s possible H fed this to Dave based on his perceived lack of effort for the released talent, piece of sh!t guy.

 

[Suleiman]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1919091390505439654

Both are in incredible shape so hard to believe, but it’s possible H fed this to Dave based on his perceived lack of effort for the released talent, piece of sh!t guy.

This is the unfortunate reality of pro wrestling sadly. Guys have to pump themselves up with steroids esp after an injury (just look at Randy, can argue Punk as well) and girls these days too take steroids though it may seem undetectable but with the amount of traveling your training diet and sleep suffer- all very necessary for aesthetics and muscle, the pressure is on.

H himself was a massive steroid user, so when he sees someone more natural who worked hard on their physique without going overboard on roids for his sort of unnatural look he had, then he gets mad.

Even though there were periods where as soon as he went off to try have kids he would enter the ring in really bad shape. So it’s sad that he can’t offer the same grace to her even though she’s in way better shape than he ever was without the need of copious amount of roids.

You can have a perfectly fine physique that would be considered peak fitness amongst 90% of the population but these days on social media and irl people would still body shame.

 

[shaz619]

This is the unfortunate reality of pro wrestling sadly. Guys have to pump themselves up with steroids esp after an injury (just look at Randy, can argue Punk as well) and girls these days too take steroids though it may seem undetectable but with the amount of traveling your training diet and sleep suffer- all very necessary for aesthetics and muscle, the pressure is on.

H himself was a massive steroid user, so when he sees someone more natural who worked hard on their physique without going overboard on roids for his sort of unnatural look he had, then he gets mad.

Even though there were periods where as soon as he went off to try have kids he would enter the ring in really bad shape. So it’s sad that he can’t offer the same grace to her even though she’s in way better shape than he ever was without the need of copious amount of roids.

You can have a perfectly fine physique that would be considered peak fitness amongst 90% of the population but these days on social media and irl people would still body shame.

Every word is spot on, that insecure tool you speak off actually wrote a book on body building LOL under the WWE umbrella, obviously took out the bit about the sharp objects he shoved up his behind. He was trying to have kids around the time of his reign of terror, he had a proper tid then, looked like a bloated version of his idol Harley. He has a completely different rule set for himself because he genuinely believes he is gods gift for pro-wrestling.

 

[shaz619]

I was hoping to catch Cora Jade / Elayna Black on TNA’s streaming/subscription service, but it looks like it’s going to be the same platform as Mandy, oh well…………..

 

[shaz619]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1919408798638239913

Add to this an extra $1000 dollars on the seat which cost you $100 a year ago.

/ 10

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Tbh, I thought they did a good enough job with him in the Bronson Reed and Jacob Fatu feuds. I don't really see how you could do much more with him than that. I think he had a feud with Omos too. That was pretty much his ceiling. Not sure if I'd be particularly excited to see AJ v Braun. In general though the era of big guys is over imo. Beyond the novelty factor, I don't think most wrestling fans want to see 6-7 foot uncoordinated giants go at it in the ring in a main-event level position. It was a purely Vince thing to begin with and in this day and age it has gotten even less relevant.

I didn't know that, but still very surprised. They invested in her heavily from the start of this NXT 2.0. To abandon that after all the progress she had made just because she made a statement doesn't fully add up. There has to be something more.

When booked right, they can be very good. Braun was booked very well during his first rise with feuds against Big Show, Roman and Brock. Vince killed his momentum himself though.
Omos didn't have a wrestling background and was fast tracked which is probably why he's so green.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Vince was infinitely better than Trips in booking the big four PPVs.

Where would wrestling be if the territories were not killed off, we needed to move on, it had to happen, as for WCW, they shot themselves in the foot, and AEW have done the same; it’s not Vinces fault they shat their pants. If anything in the modern era, AEW has done more damage killing off every possible alternative, WWE are a big part of why TNA survived and I would argue the same for ROH and other major independent companies, they could have bought these companies anytime, the independent scene today is dog sh!te and you’re not going to find your next AJ or Bryan or Joe or Punk etc most likely they will come out of the PC. When all is said and done unless they get him for murder or rape, they will look back on the positives, that’s 90% of the fans anyway, even the IWC are already looking at him in a more positive light, when the heat dies down and you got a mediocre booker running the show this is just how it is and TKO’s shocking policy’s are not helping, we are worse off now then even before. I would take him as a booker every week over H and twice on Sunday, I would accept the bad because I am aware of the upside, I’d prefer that to a completely soulless product which may as well be booked by AI technology because that’s how dead it is, I could predict 90% off the next 12 months, now don’t get me wrong, predictability is not always bad, but 90%, that’s not the pro-wrestling I personally love, this years WM is a good reflection of where we are, and shafting their employees & fans is not sustainable, it wont last forever due to the nature of the business and the UFC is a completely different product.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1919545094924869761

 

[Bhaijaan]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1919545094924869761

I am picking Big Poppa Pump over Guerilla

 

[shaz619]

I watched highlights of the RAW main-event, man is Jey Uso over, I thought the novelty might wear off, but these people actually care about whether or not he loses the belt; I don’t know whether to laugh or cry

I am still of the view that a big name needs a considerable run with the title, until then it lacks prestige and is more of an interim world championship.

 

[shaz619]

I am picking Big Poppa Pump over Guerilla

Big Poppa Pump will have Stacy Keibler do a lap dance and when the Gorilla is distracted, take him out with a Frakensteiner.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

What technique man even in that phase of his life:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1919131031392727400

F Goldberg

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Yeah certainly he helped those guys get over and those are the sort of programs in which the upside with Braun can’t be quantified; I am not as against big men as much as others because wrestling is a place where sub 6ft guys can thrive, to me it’s about how they are sold, I think there’s a place in wrestling for most things. In the height of the golden era, I think it’s a big misconception that you didn’t need to be a good worker though. 100% more to it will be interesting to find out more, I’d like to see TNA give her a contract as she was already working there, but might not happen due to the TNA/WWE relationship; I am interested to see if they pick up any of the released talent, if they don’t then it could be a contractual thing.

Yeah but there are too few big men that can actually work. Braun for me, did not know how to work. He didn't understand in-ring psychology eventhough he was more athetlic than most big men. And I absolutely hated it when he did his dumb chuchoo train thing outside the ring. Big men matches were where he shined, which isn't surprising considering that the psychology is a whole lot simpler there, but how many big men are even left in WWE these days? I feel like he has wrestled them all. Personally I was never a fan of him and am glad I won't have to see him on WWE TV anymore.

AEW feels like the most likely landing spot for her, just because of the money, creative freedom, and Tony wanting to stick it to the Fed.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Where would wrestling be if the territories were not killed off, we needed to move on, it had to happen, as for WCW, they shot themselves in the foot, and AEW have done the same; it’s not Vinces fault they shat their pants. If anything in the modern era, AEW has done more damage killing off every possible alternative, WWE are a big part of why TNA survived and I would argue the same for ROH and other major independent companies, they could have bought these companies anytime, the independent scene today is dog sh!te and you’re not going to find your next AJ or Bryan or Joe or Punk etc most likely they will come out of the PC. When all is said and done unless they get him for murder or rape, they will look back on the positives, that’s 90% of the fans anyway, even the IWC are already looking at him in a more positive light, when the heat dies down and you got a mediocre booker running the show this is just how it is and TKO’s shocking policy’s are not helping, we are worse off now then even before. I would take him as a booker every week over H and twice on Sunday, I would accept the bad because I am aware of the upside, I’d prefer that to a completely soulless product which may as well be booked by AI technology because that’s how dead it is, I could predict 90% off the next 12 months, now don’t get me wrong, predictability is not always bad, but 90%, that’s not the pro-wrestling I personally love, this years WM is a good reflection of where we are, and shafting their employees & fans is not sustainable, it wont last forever due to the nature of the business and the UFC is a completely different product.

Okay, on the territories and WCW I can respect you point. Eventhough personally, I don't think Vince needed to do that in the way that he did. But as far as booking is concerned, that's like saying you like the lesser of two evils. Vince's booking for over a decade was absolutely horrible. 2019 may have been the tipping point, which is why so many fans welcomed AEW with open arms. During certain periods Vince's booking was so bad that the only comparison you can make is with Russo. Just take the booking of Punk as an example. Despite the role that Triple H had in burying Punk, at the end of the day, it was Vince who was making the final decision and willingly accepting it all. Do you remember what the main-event was at the PPV before MITB? John Cena v R-Truth for the WWE Championship. Vince lost his marbles a long time ago which is why WWE became such an insufferable product and fans started looking for alternatives. Unfortunately, the alternative (TNA) also turned into WWE lite after a certain point, while ROH didn't have the budget to attract anyone besides the smart fans which is why fans generally had little to no choice but to accept WWE. Vince still had instincts, I'll give him that. That's something you can't teach. But I feel like every year for the past 20 or so years of Vince's booking there have been numerous egregious things booking-wise that made you want to set the seats on fire as a fan. Are we forgetting his last great booking masterstroke? Where he came out at WrestleMania to wrestle a match with Pat MacAfee and 76 freaking years of age?

I feel like WWE has become too big too fail. It has managed to become a very big part of pop-culture and has a very sizeable captive audience that won't go away. If anything, I see the product becoming more corporate and homogenized which is perhaps something we wouldn't have seen under Vince. So I do agree with you there. It's definitely going to get a whole lot worse, especially when it comes to them whoring themselves out for sponsors and celebrities. But as things stand, I don't think its a whole lot different than it was under Vince. You're forgetting Vince loved celebs too. Remember Kevin Fenderline (whoever the hell he was) pinning John Cena? Or those weekly RAW guest GMs. Getting PTSD just thinking about some of this stuff...

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

This is the unfortunate reality of pro wrestling sadly. Guys have to pump themselves up with steroids esp after an injury (just look at Randy, can argue Punk as well) and girls these days too take steroids though it may seem undetectable but with the amount of traveling your training diet and sleep suffer- all very necessary for aesthetics and muscle, the pressure is on.

H himself was a massive steroid user, so when he sees someone more natural who worked hard on their physique without going overboard on roids for his sort of unnatural look he had, then he gets mad.

Even though there were periods where as soon as he went off to try have kids he would enter the ring in really bad shape. So it’s sad that he can’t offer the same grace to her even though she’s in way better shape than he ever was without the need of copious amount of roids.

You can have a perfectly fine physique that would be considered peak fitness amongst 90% of the population but these days on social media and irl people would still body shame.

Why was she body-shamed though? She has a fairly good physique for someone of her size. Seems like a bunch of $cumb@gs were trying to knock her down a peg because of other reasons.

 

[shaz619]

Okay, on the territories and WCW I can respect you point. Eventhough personally, I don't think Vince needed to do that in the way that he did. But as far as booking is concerned, that's like saying you like the lesser of two evils. Vince's booking for over a decade was absolutely horrible. 2019 may have been the tipping point, which is why so many fans welcomed AEW with open arms. During certain periods Vince's booking was so bad that the only comparison you can make is with Russo. Just take the booking of Punk as an example. Despite the role that Triple H had in burying Punk, at the end of the day, it was Vince who was making the final decision and willingly accepting it all. Do you remember what the main-event was at the PPV before MITB? John Cena v R-Truth for the WWE Championship. Vince lost his marbles a long time ago which is why WWE became such an insufferable product and fans started looking for alternatives. Unfortunately, the alternative (TNA) also turned into WWE lite after a certain point, while ROH didn't have the budget to attract anyone besides the smart fans which is why fans generally had little to no choice but to accept WWE. Vince still had instincts, I'll give him that. That's something you can't teach. But I feel like every year for the past 20 or so years of Vince's booking there have been numerous egregious things booking-wise that made you want to set the seats on fire as a fan. Are we forgetting his last great booking masterstroke? Where he came out at WrestleMania to wrestle a match with Pat MacAfee and 76 freaking years of age?

I feel like WWE has become too big too fail. It has managed to become a very big part of pop-culture and has a very sizeable captive audience that won't go away. If anything, I see the product becoming more corporate and homogenized which is perhaps something we wouldn't have seen under Vince. So I do agree with you there. It's definitely going to get a whole lot worse, especially when it comes to them whoring themselves out for sponsors and celebrities. But as things stand, I don't think its a whole lot different than it was under Vince. You're forgetting Vince loved celebs too. Remember Kevin Fenderline (whoever the hell he was) pinning John Cena? Or those weekly RAW guest GMs. Getting PTSD just thinking about some of this stuff...

Vince had Russo on a leash so I don’t see that comparison remotely, the only US promoter who knew how to manage sh!t stain so it’s mind boggling to see him being compared to him, Tony Khan is much better placed to compare to his great feats of bringing companies to the ground. When a promoter of Vinces’s calibre has such a vast resume, it’s straight forward to pick segments you didn’t like, but I don’t believe they were simply too big to fail under him now that you’ve seen the destruction of AEW with all the resource & talent behind them, Vince liked comedy and made some silly match-ups, but he drew a line 90% off the time or else the company would have been in the gutters. You mention Pat MacAfee but that was fine as a comedy segment which you need at Mania - I rather that then sit for hours watching cold match after cold match booked by H, but that same guy is now working a PPV with Gunther out blue and it was in his diary, we just didn’t comprehend all the little random tid-bits on commentary every time Gunther came out to Pat’s displeasure so very clever from H, this is just one example of knowing where to position such talent opposed to giving someone like Orange Cassidy a monster push because that’s what all the lapsed fans were dying to see or the nepotism we were against but all of a suddenly marked out for when some random untrained garbage got prime time slots on national TV. I am telling you his last great masterstroke actually was signing Cody & having him work with Lesnar before elevating him to the ME, there is no guarantee that under H he would be a top guy.

I can’t recall Cena v R-Truth but am glad R-Truth got the opportunities which have been depraved from minorities, sure R-Truth was a comedy act but I was always pleased to see him get the rub of the green having followed him during the NWA Wildside days, he was respectable champion; that match-up on paper is serviceable compared to Logan Paul vs AJ Styles; the latter embodies the kind of wrestling you love, just let it sink in that he was jobbed out like that, in-fact Vince treated all the guys from the golden era of indie wrestling pretty well when you consider how the smarks kept banging on about how they would be doomed; they all became huge stars under Vince.

If you listen to the podcast Punk did with Colt Cobana right after leaving, you will see it was 95% H who made his life a living hell, if anyone is in doubt about his influence during the reign of terror then this put all those doubts to bed. Vince is the guy who pushed Punk right to the top, it was H who attempted to sabotage him each step of the way. And be under no illusion that it’s H why Punk is back, it’s the Netflix execs & Nick Khan; H simply had to play ball, Punk made it clear that it was Nick Khan who was most influential in his return.

You lot might feel different but I wasn’t dying for H to take over all the way back in 2019, I attended more events during the Vince era then vice versa and especially up to 2018. WWE does have a resilient structure but it’s being taken for granted, I genuinely don’t see them as being better of under the current booker, they’ve failed to create new stars, allowed their ego to meddle in the affairs concerning talents who are popular with the fans, show zero courage in creating or revamping established characters, treat their championships like garbage, create non-sensical stories out of thin air based on cues we should recall from 12 months ago, the product is saved by the big names and a shrewd business man in Nick Khan.

Lets just say hypothetically you’re right about everything not being that much different, is that really what you hoped for when Vince left? I think people have been way too forgiving of H and now are starting to find how one dimensional he is.

 

[shaz619]

TNA could have been something with the same resources as AEW, unfortunately they made the fatal mistake of handing the reigns to sh!t stain, Hogan & Bischoff. You look back and the passion from their audience was a lot more organic, TNA were genuinely trying to be a proper alternative and innovated the NA style, in-doing so showcasing talent like AJ & Joe, being the true pioneers of the modern women’s wrestling boom and unconventional booking. I was watching a top TNA entrances video and seeing the passion from that early 2000’s audience was something, unlike the fake adulation from AEW neckbeards that would pop for pockets taking a dump in the middle of the ring. TNA had something man, just not the backing and made terrible managerial decisions, but they had the product unlike Tony CrackPot Khan.

 

[shaz619]

I was just thinking, myself included I gave Vince a lot of stick for the 50/50 booking of The Fiend; a character he helped shape. But whatever the hell happened to the Wyatt 6? I tell you what, captain clueless doesn’t have a creative bone in his body, it showed during his wrestling career and it’s showing in his booking career.

Vince was flawed and the spawn of satan, but being a mad genius in the creative space and especially in the wrestling world is not a terrible thing compared to being a one track mind who is only good for doing interviews attacking his fanbase because that’s how insecure he is.