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The Wrestling Discussion Thread

BouncerGuy said:
Kennedy had behavioral issues, like he did not care much about safety etc... Once heard Orton mention an incident where Kennedy injured him and fought carelessly.
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There are plenty of wrestlers who have messed up in the ring. That's no reason to fire someone.

Atleast Kennedy never ended someone's career by being unsafe in the ring like Goldberg ended Bret Hart's career.

Seth Rollins dislocated Finn Balor's shoulder and nearly killed Sting with the same move. And not only is he allowed to still use that move, but he has been pushed to the moon since.
 
shaz619 said:
That incident in isolation was blown out of proportion & Orton did a Hogan by complaining, but I am not sure about other issues with Kennedy from around that time which could have led to his firing.
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He seems like someone who was blunt and outspoken. And unless you ae a big star that always rubs "the office" the wrong way. We all saw how Punk was treated for years before the pipebomb. And even that wouldn't have happened if Punk wasn't okay with continuing to be in the same position.
 
shaz619 said:
I mean I hate they are wasting a Cena match on that turd, at best Logan Paul is like a Temu version of Chelsea Green, it will be a travesty if they ever push him to the top. But at the same time, it makes me feel a little better about AJ Styles vs Logan Paul, because it this all seems more like a focussed effort to get the turd over opposed to just throwing AJ under the buss at Mania, I mean they still do it, but there’s a clear project to keep Logan in the limelight. Look he got the character and is a good heel, but that’s all he will ever be & in the ring he is bang average, so there’s a place for people like this in the mid-card, so as long as he is there I am fine, but Cena deserves better than this.
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It just amazes me that of all the guys they have on the roster, this is the guy they decide should get this push. AJ might win the IC CHmapionship in Paris. Then H will hold that over everyone's head till AJ's retirement as his example of pushing AJ.
 
shaz619 said:
He was so over with every portion of the fanbase & we were all riding his bandwagon, without a doubt a favourite of mine from the RA era. Didn’t the Orton incident occur well after he won the MITB?

If that was the case, then I would say that his injury was more crushing, say Mr. Kenney doesn’t get injured and actually manages to hold onto the briefcase until WM 24, which was the plan and it would have been really interested to see how that would have gone! (There was a countdown clock for his cash-in on WWE.com? don’t know how I remember that 🤣, I must have looked at it weekly).

Say he actually managed to cash-in & become world champion, there’s a strong possibility that if the Orton incident did occur after that, then Kennedy would have some influence within the company that would prevent his firing, maybe he’d drop the belt worse case, but by then if Kenny was a success during his championship run then I feel it would have given him leverage.
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As far as his push was concerned, the injury was definitely the biggest factor for him not becoming World Champion. But I think the Orton incident, combined with his backstage perception probably led to his exit from the company. When the Benoit incident happened he went on TV and was very honest admitting to using prescription pain-killers, which I'm sure didn't help his standing within the company either.

Still at the end of the day, it was a potentially great career wasted. He had such a unique gimmick and was such a great heel. I would have loved to see him hold the briefcase for a year. Think things tarted going downhill for him once he movd to RAW.

The saddest thing of all is that the injury was misdiagnosed. It was not a serious injury and he was back after a very short time. But they had already made him lose the briefcase to Edge. What I don't understand is why he couldn't have held on to the briefcase. Even if he was injured long-term. Would have made the cash-in even better.

I've listened to some of his interviews, and he mostly blames himself. Even for the Orton thing. Though I'm not sure I agree with him. Ironically enough, he and Orton were friends prior to the incident.
 
The Undertaker worked with alot of trash during that era. Heidenreich, Luther Reigns, Great Khali...

The fact that Kennedy worked multiple PPV matches with him and managed to get two wins over him shows that not only was Taker willing to work with him, but they saw him as a future star too.

This guy on Reddit also questions Orton's accusation that Kennedy hurt him:

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RedwoodOriginal said:
@shaz619 @Suleiman @The_KING @BunnyRabbit @Rafale Nidhal
Stevie talks alot of sense. And he would know H considering he was on RAW during the peak of the reign of terror :ashwin

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Man, I used to be a Triple H fan, but growing up is realising is that childhood heroes aren't what you thought them to be.

The reality is that Triple H has always been a mark for him. This guy had more backing than any other superstar that I can remember. Vince tried everything in his power to get him over, from pairing him up with Mr Perfect & Chyna to putting him in stables like DX, Evolution and The Authority, but he could never get over or could never get over enough. Triple H was never on the level of Austin, The Rock, The Undertaker, Mick Foley, CM Punk, John Cena, Randy Orton, Roman Reigns, Batista etc. But he worked endlessly with all of these top stars, and it is true that Triple H doesn't draw money himself, rather he works with guys who drew money.

But the thing that has really turned me off Triple H is his behaviour after he took over from Vince as the head of creative. Every show, we are reminded of the fact that it is now the "Paul Levesque Show." He opened the show on both nights of Summerslam. Every time someones wins a title, Triple H has to take a picture with them and post it on his social media pages. This MFer wants to make everything about him and it pisses me off. Even the new netflix show WWE Unreal was designed to get Triple H over. This clown doesn't realise that it isn't about him anymore and nobody wants to see him in 2025.

I know when Vince was head of creative, he was involved in storylines and had matches, but Vince never made it about himself. He was willing to humiliate himself to get the wrestler that he working with at that time. Vince didn't even induct himself in the hall of fame, when he could have done it 30 years ago. But this fool Triple H gets himself inducted in the hall of fame right away, and pretended that he knew nothing about his hall of fame induction. Despite his flaws, Vince truly loved the business and especially WWE. Triple H only loves himself.

I just wish Triple H goes away. Watching WWE is unbearable with this fool at the helm.
 
The_KING said:
Man, I used to be a Triple H fan, but growing up is realising is that childhood heroes aren't what you thought them to be.

The reality is that Triple H has always been a mark for him. This guy had more backing than any other superstar that I can remember. Vince tried everything in his power to get him over, from pairing him up with Mr Perfect & Chyna to putting him in stables like DX, Evolution and The Authority, but he could never get over or could never get over enough. Triple H was never on the level of Austin, The Rock, The Undertaker, Mick Foley, CM Punk, John Cena, Randy Orton, Roman Reigns, Batista etc. But he worked endlessly with all of these top stars, and it is true that Triple H doesn't draw money himself, rather he works with guys who drew money.

But the thing that has really turned me off Triple H is his behaviour after he took over from Vince as the head of creative. Every show, we are reminded of the fact that it is now the "Paul Levesque Show." He opened the show on both nights of Summerslam. Every time someones wins a title, Triple H has to take a picture with them and post it on his social media pages. This MFer wants to make everything about him and it pisses me off. Even the new netflix show WWE Unreal was designed to get Triple H over. This clown doesn't realise that it isn't about him anymore and nobody wants to see him in 2025.

I know when Vince was head of creative, he was involved in storylines and had matches, but Vince never made it about himself. He was willing to humiliate himself to get the wrestler that he working with at that time. Vince didn't even induct himself in the hall of fame, when he could have done it 30 years ago. But this fool Triple H gets himself inducted in the hall of fame right away, and pretended that he knew nothing about his hall of fame induction. Despite his flaws, Vince truly loved the business and especially WWE. Triple H only loves himself.

I just wish Triple H goes away. Watching WWE is unbearable with this fool at the helm.
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Triple H reminds me of ICC chairman (Jay Shah). Always wants the spotlight. LOL.
 
I will always dislike Randy for getting Mr Kennedy fired. Kennedy had more charisma in his little pinky than Orton had in his entire body.

I was a big fan of Kennedy. I remember mimicking his entrance as a kid. It is a shame that he never won the world title and was released unfairly.
 
sweep_shot said:
Yes.

It didn't seem like Randy was hurt much. I think Randy just didn't like Kennedy and wanted him fired.

I am surprised Vince didn't defend Kennedy (a rising superstar at that time).
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Orton was going through a very popular heel run at the time, and as an established star was more important to them. I've also heard that he got Cena to go along with him as Cena had supposedly gotten injured in a match with Kennedy before No Mercy, which kept him out for a year till he returned at Rumble 2008. Though looking at that match, Cena tore his pec off a hip-toss, one of the most basics moves in the book, so I'm not sure how you can blame him there either.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Orton was going through a very popular heel run at the time, and as an established star was more important to them. I've also heard that he got Cena to go along with him as Cena had supposedly gotten injured in a match with Kennedy before No Mercy, which kept him out for a year till he returned at Rumble 2008. Though looking at that match, Cena tore his pec off a hip-toss, one of the most basics moves in the book, so I'm not sure how you can blame him there either.
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We can always right these wrongs in the SvR PSP games, Kennedy was my go to pick in the 2007 game, which annoyingly has a giant turd on the cover
 
Triple H and his merry band of writer stooges strike again. Now that they've shown who all these dopes are in their own documentary show, I think they are fair game and just as complicit in all this as H himself.

What's amazing is how they just can't tolerate someone who gets over on their own. Sami Zayn, LA Knight, R-Truth, Karrion Kross.

I'm not a huge fan of Kross or anything but fact is, he got over on his own. The fans wanted that. Look at R-Truth. After Triple H was made to look like a clown and was forced and bring him back, now he has turned back into a comedy character too.

His ego just can't tolerate the fans thinking of themselves and supporting someone who isn't being shoved down their throars. And then he has the gall to talk about "pivoting." Vince was known for doing the same alot of times when he got to his senile stage. Not pushing Cesaro is probably one of the best examples. But he wasn't a hypocrite like H, who tries to project himself as this revolutionary wrestling thinker who wants what's best for the fans. He's just an idiot who doesn't understand anything about wrestling or booking despite being in the business for all his adult life.

www.f4wonline.com

WWE News: Karrion Kross says he was told by ‘certain people’ not to acknowledge fan support

Kross opened up about the fan response he was getting prior to his contract expiring.
www.f4wonline.com www.f4wonline.com
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Triple H and his merry band of writer stooges strike again. Now that they've shown who all these dopes are in their own documentary show, I think they are fair game and just as complicit in all this as H himself.

What's amazing is how they just can't tolerate someone who gets over on their own. Sami Zayn, LA Knight, R-Truth, Karrion Kross.

I'm not a huge fan of Kross or anything but fact is, he got over on his own. The fans wanted that. Look at R-Truth. After Triple H was made to look like a clown and was forced and bring him back, now he has turned back into a comedy character too.

His ego just can't tolerate the fans thinking of themselves and supporting someone who isn't being shoved down their throars. And then he has the gall to talk about "pivoting." Vince was known for doing the same alot of times when he got to his senile stage. Not pushing Cesaro is probably one of the best examples. But he wasn't a hypocrite like H, who tries to project himself as this revolutionary wrestling thinker who wants what's best for the fans. He's just an idiot who doesn't understand anything about wrestling or booking despite being in the business for all his adult life.

www.f4wonline.com

WWE News: Karrion Kross says he was told by ‘certain people’ not to acknowledge fan support

Kross opened up about the fan response he was getting prior to his contract expiring.
www.f4wonline.com www.f4wonline.com
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If am honest with you, I do think any fresh face deserves a push; but I just don’t see Kross as a main-eventer, he has never been a top guy anywhere he has wrestled & I don’t see it in his ring work either, he takes bumps kinda awkwardly as well. However, I see star quality all over Scarlett & I fear Kross has hindered her potential more then anything, they are like a Marc Mero / Sable duo, except H will never have the foresight to book an angle like that or have the instinct to understand who truly can make money.

My read of the Kross thing is this, I feel this whole contract / backstage issues thing is a worked shoot which is too manufactured for me, Kross is another H project and I find it hard ti buy anything into him not being on their agenda, the only possibility could be that because he is getting over with smarks that he doesn’t want to pull the trigger, but I am not sure really. The whole shoot thing has been done so unbelievably poorly though, CM Punk managed to do it really well in the indies on a much smaller ROH budget, H is so out of his depth, he is reinforcing the view he would be nothing in this business without his politicking.

At some point in an angle like this, you need that big breakout moment, and they’ve been dragging this out so long that I am surprised people still care, so I guess I will give Kross some credit for keeping people interested in him, because H hasn’t done anything on that front, he may do, but who knows what he has in his diary and what year, it has been months since that promo after Mania.

Again, I am not too upset about it because I just think Kross is bang average and I am still too disappointed with how they’ve been treating LA Knight, Sami, Kevin Owens, AJ Styles, Orton, Bron, Chad Gable, Drew, Nakamura, Ciampa, Gunther, Pete Dunn & Tyler Bate.
 
Scarlett has the most watched segment in AAA history, and was booked a million times better in a TNA that hadn’t been revamped like it has now. I think there’s huge potential with her in-ring career, but if I ignore that for a sec, she’s one of the best managers / valet’s in wrestling, she’s entirely responsible for the following Kross has right now and is not appreciated enough for her excellent work.

I kind off see her in a similar light as Alexa Bliss but with a higher ceiling in the ring, and Alexa has achieved a lot! Alexa started out as a valet to in NXT, and in those days, she was so good as a heel manager, she reminded me of Sheri Martel, I feel like Scarlett has an aura which is similar, and there’s this dark and twisted side which isn’t completely realised, lately they’ve kept her in the background because they know it’s too easy for the audience to forget about Kross if she is in the limelight.
 
That’s all the praise you need in wrestling, a nod from Bret The Hitman Hart.
 
BunnyRabbit said:
And WWE needs to be booked by someone who understands prowrestling, Hbk, Austin or even Dwayne. Basically anyone over Hunter at this point.
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Let's not get ahead of ourselves. Dwayne is poison too. And if he gets the reins it won't be him booking, it'll be his little side-kick stooge Brian Gewirtz. And we've already seen his brilliant ideas considering he was a head writer for WWE till 2015.

Simply put, Austin don't give s $hit. He is already filthy rich and I reckon he'd rather spend his days on his ranch drinking beer and chilling with his cute lil cat Pancho, then be dragged into this bull$hit.

That leaves behind Shawn, who is the only person who has the brains, and is capable enough to take over as the head booker.
 
shaz619 said:
If am honest with you, I do think any fresh face deserves a push; but I just don’t see Kross as a main-eventer, he has never been a top guy anywhere he has wrestled & I don’t see it in his ring work either, he takes bumps kinda awkwardly as well. However, I see star quality all over Scarlett & I fear Kross has hindered her potential more then anything, they are like a Marc Mero / Sable duo, except H will never have the foresight to book an angle like that or have the instinct to understand who truly can make money.

My read of the Kross thing is this, I feel this whole contract / backstage issues thing is a worked shoot which is too manufactured for me, Kross is another H project and I find it hard ti buy anything into him not being on their agenda, the only possibility could be that because he is getting over with smarks that he doesn’t want to pull the trigger, but I am not sure really. The whole shoot thing has been done so unbelievably poorly though, CM Punk managed to do it really well in the indies on a much smaller ROH budget, H is so out of his depth, he is reinforcing the view he would be nothing in this business without his politicking.

At some point in an angle like this, you need that big breakout moment, and they’ve been dragging this out so long that I am surprised people still care, so I guess I will give Kross some credit for keeping people interested in him, because H hasn’t done anything on that front, he may do, but who knows what he has in his diary and what year, it has been months since that promo after Mania.

Again, I am not too upset about it because I just think Kross is bang average and I am still too disappointed with how they’ve been treating LA Knight, Sami, Kevin Owens, AJ Styles, Orton, Bron, Chad Gable, Drew, Nakamura, Ciampa, Gunther, Pete Dunn & Tyler Bate.
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I think you're right. Reading some stuff online that makes me now think this is a work. It would be so H to do this and then act like he got one over on the internet. The fact that Kross is now saying that he was really disappointed by the offer he received from WWE really makes me question the whole thing. Usually if someone was fired from WWE, you wouldn't see them discussing their offer so publicly.

As for Kross's reactions, I wouldn't say it's just the smarks, he has been getting good reactions at the shows. Personally speaking, I don't really see him as a main-eventer either, but there is a happy medium between that and where he is now, and there is certainly the potential to do something interesting.

But the principle remains the same. Even if we forget about him, the way he has booked and treated guys like LA, Sami, Chad Gable, Kevin Owens, AJ just goes back to what a hypocrite he is. He has actively buried/ignored fan reactions because he had different plans, and it has badly damaged the credibility and reputation of alot of guys, besides being a slap to the face of the fans. Over the years, alot of guys have been pushed that I did not necessarily like, or see as main-eventers, but ultimately it's the principle.
 
shaz619 said:
He had the best theme ever,

Hiden!

Hiden Rike!

Hiden!

Hiden Rike!
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Man I felt for Taker during that era. Can you believe he worked back to back PPV matches with Heidenreich and Luther Reigns? What did he do to deserve that? Run over Vince's dog with his car?
 
shaz619 said:
Scarlett has the most watched segment in AAA history, and was booked a million times better in a TNA that hadn’t been revamped like it has now. I think there’s huge potential with her in-ring career, but if I ignore that for a sec, she’s one of the best managers / valet’s in wrestling, she’s entirely responsible for the following Kross has right now and is not appreciated enough for her excellent work.

I kind off see her in a similar light as Alexa Bliss but with a higher ceiling in the ring, and Alexa has achieved a lot! Alexa started out as a valet to in NXT, and in those days, she was so good as a heel manager, she reminded me of Sheri Martel, I feel like Scarlett has an aura which is similar, and there’s this dark and twisted side which isn’t completely realised, lately they’ve kept her in the background because they know it’s too easy for the audience to forget about Kross if she is in the limelight.
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Scarlett is great. It's a shame the era of valets is practically over. She could have been a massive star in another era. Because she is married in Kross in real life I also think it's unlikely that she will break away from him. Unless ofcourse they get divorced lol.
 
shaz619 said:
I even went for Steph over him
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Steph literally made the rapper gimmick for Cena. Gave birth to an arguable GOAT who was otherwise gonna be let go. She saw he could rap and told him use that as your gimmick… rest was history

That’s already more creative than her bum husband could ever do. He just ruins careers
 
Suleiman said:
Steph literally made the rapper gimmick for Cena. Gave birth to an arguable GOAT who was otherwise gonna be let go. She saw he could rap and told him use that as your gimmick… rest was history

That’s already more creative than her bum husband could ever do. He just ruins careers
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You been on 🔥 lately with these posts 🤣 You go into the specifics of what I’ve been trying to convey but in a much better way, I am too consumed by my hatred for H, I am happy to admit I am a hater.
 
shaz619 said:
You been on 🔥 lately with these posts 🤣 You go into the specifics of what I’ve been trying to convey but in a much better way, I am too consumed by my hatred for H, I am happy to admit I am a hater.
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It’s ok. I am a hater of his as well.

The way he treated my gym coach Carlito bhai, I have to avenge him. :inti
 
Suleiman said:
Steph literally made the rapper gimmick for Cena. Gave birth to an arguable GOAT who was otherwise gonna be let go. She saw he could rap and told him use that as your gimmick… rest was history

That’s already more creative than her bum husband could ever do. He just ruins careers
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Wow! Didn't know this.

When Cena first started, he had a "prototype" gimmick. A vanilla jobber gimmick.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Man I felt for Taker during that era. Can you believe he worked back to back PPV matches with Heidenreich and Luther Reigns? What did he do to deserve that? Run over Vince's dog with his car?
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Taker spent so much of his career walking with absolutely rubbish wrestlers, such as Mabel, Giant Gonzalez, Heindreich, Luther Reigns, The Great Khali. Only from 2007 onwards, did he consistently work with wrestlers that allowed him to truly showcase his in-ring ability.

Taker was sadly too loyal to Vince and could never say no to him.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Man I felt for Taker during that era. Can you believe he worked back to back PPV matches with Heidenreich and Luther Reigns? What did he do to deserve that? Run over Vince's dog with his car?
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The Great Sh!te pinned him for the title as well, Vladmir Koslov beat him clean, nobody can ever accuse Taker of not going out on his back, he has given the business his life & soul
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Scarlett is great. It's a shame the era of valets is practically over. She could have been a massive star in another era. Because she is married in Kross in real life I also think it's unlikely that she will break away from him. Unless ofcourse they get divorced lol.
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We want the Smoke Show back! People are starving! Family’s will be fed!
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
I think you're right. Reading some stuff online that makes me now think this is a work. It would be so H to do this and then act like he got one over on the internet. The fact that Kross is now saying that he was really disappointed by the offer he received from WWE really makes me question the whole thing. Usually if someone was fired from WWE, you wouldn't see them discussing their offer so publicly.

As for Kross's reactions, I wouldn't say it's just the smarks, he has been getting good reactions at the shows. Personally speaking, I don't really see him as a main-eventer either, but there is a happy medium between that and where he is now, and there is certainly the potential to do something interesting.

But the principle remains the same. Even if we forget about him, the way he has booked and treated guys like LA, Sami, Chad Gable, Kevin Owens, AJ just goes back to what a hypocrite he is. He has actively buried/ignored fan reactions because he had different plans, and it has badly damaged the credibility and reputation of alot of guys, besides being a slap to the face of the fans. Over the years, alot of guys have been pushed that I did not necessarily like, or see as main-eventers, but ultimately it's the principle.
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Imagine they bring Kross back like how they did Truth, it just dilutes this, and they didn’t act when he had the most heat after WM & am not even his biggest fan!

Then again, I’d take him over that human piece of garbage known as Seth, for as awful as H was, they could sell him as champion, but Seth? I wouldn’t put the belt on him in my back garden federation.
 
The_KING said:
Taker spent so much of his career walking with absolutely rubbish wrestlers, such as Mabel, Giant Gonzalez, Heindreich, Luther Reigns, The Great Khali. Only from 2007 onwards, did he consistently work with wrestlers that allowed him to truly showcase his in-ring ability.

Taker was sadly too loyal to Vince and could never say no to him.
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Yeah and by that point he was pretty much close to winding down his full-time in-ring career. Can you believe that they initially had Undertaker & Kane v Heidenreich & Snitsky planned for WrestleMania 21. I am so glad that match never happened.
 
shaz619 said:
Imagine they bring Kross back like how they did Truth, it just dilutes this, and they didn’t act when he had the most heat after WM & am not even his biggest fan!

Then again, I’d take him over that human piece of garbage known as Seth, for as awful as H was, they could sell him as champion, but Seth? I wouldn’t put the belt on him in my back garden federation.
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Well you know the cardinal rule of HHH booking: only strike when the iron is cold.

Oh yeah. He may not be great in the ring, but he has more presence and personality than Rollins could ever dream of having.
 
Bhaag Viru Bhaag said:
How about this one? :inti

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I remember seeing this when it happened and feeling so bad for JR. I always saw him as the voice of reason on a show of people who were completely nuts. Even his broadcast partner Jerry Lawler was a complete horndog who couldn't stop talking about "puppies."

It definitely worked in regards to getting some mega heat on Kane from me.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
@shaz619 Check out this thread. The smartest take I've read online on this Kross stuff so far. OP is one of the smarter wrestling commentators online. I've read his takes on a few other things in the past too, that I found myself agreeing with.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1954762717312483697
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I still believe it’s a shoot but he makes a good point about making the fans feel like they are in control.

One thing I disagree on though is R-Truth, I don’t feel like the fans moved on, it was WWE not doing anything with the heat.

In wrestling, timing is so important right,

What if they didn’t push Austin when they did?

What if Shawn Michaels didn’t get to work with Bret?

What if Lesnar doesn’t win the WWE championship at SS against The Rock?

Heck, what if Cena & Batista don’t go over at WM 21?
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Yeah and by that point he was pretty much close to winding down his full-time in-ring career. Can you believe that they initially had Undertaker & Kane v Heidenreich & Snitsky planned for WrestleMania 21. I am so glad that match never happened.
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Undertaker had his fair share of stinkers at Wrestlemania, not due to any fault of his own. It’s fair to say Undertaker & Kane vs Heidenreich & Stinsky would have been another stinker. Thank God, it didn’t happen and we got Taker vs Orton, instead.
 
shaz619 said:
I still believe it’s a shoot but he makes a good point about making the fans feel like they are in control.

One thing I disagree on though is R-Truth, I don’t feel like the fans moved on, it was WWE not doing anything with the heat.

In wrestling, timing is so important right,

What if they didn’t push Austin when they did?

What if Shawn Michaels didn’t get to work with Bret?

What if Lesnar doesn’t win the WWE championship at SS against The Rock?

Heck, what if Cena & Batista don’t go over at WM 21?
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Yeah but as much as I love Truth he has never been presented at that level. They knew full well that once he came back they were going to give him a spotlight for a few weeks and then sideline him. Which is exactly what they did. Another reason why I think the fan uproar was so massive was because they did this right after he was involved in one of the most high-profile storylines with Cena.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Yeah but as much as I love Truth he has never been presented at that level. They knew full well that once he came back they were going to give him a spotlight for a few weeks and then sideline him. Which is exactly what they did. Another reason why I think the fan uproar was so massive was because they did this right after he was involved in one of the most high-profile storylines with Cena.
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If there was ever a time to hit reset with Truth, now would have been it, from the references to Ron Killings and his change in mannerisms, to be fair people did complain about how they abandoned his mini-push before it could begin, we even discussed ideas here on what they could do with a more insidious Ron, so people were excited. But when you have an ego maniac at the helm, he wont ride the wave, the fact that the wave exists insults his fragile sensitivities. Under Vince, if he didn’t get injured, Mustafa Ali was going over for the WWE Championship against Daniel Bryan; as nuts as that sounds, it was a very real possibility.
 
shaz619 said:
If there was ever a time to hit reset with Truth, now would have been it, from the references to Ron Killings and his change in mannerisms, to be fair people did complain about how they abandoned his mini-push before it could begin, we even discussed ideas here on what they could do with a more insidious Ron, so people were excited. But when you have an ego maniac at the helm, he wont ride the wave, the fact that the wave exists insults his fragile sensitivities. Under Vince, if he didn’t get injured, Mustafa Ali was going over for the WWE Championship against Daniel Bryan; as nuts as that sounds, it was a very real possibility.
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I have heard this rumor from a few people and I have to say I seriously question it. Especially considering how Mustafa Ali has been presented on TV before and after this period. Another rumor I heard, that I found more credible was Kevin Owens going over Bryan at WrestleMania.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Let's not get ahead of ourselves. Dwayne is poison too. And if he gets the reins it won't be him booking, it'll be his little side-kick stooge Brian Gewirtz. And we've already seen his brilliant ideas considering he was a head writer for WWE till 2015.

Simply put, Austin don't give s $hit. He is already filthy rich and I reckon he'd rather spend his days on his ranch drinking beer and chilling with his cute lil cat Pancho, then be dragged into this bull$hit.

That leaves behind Shawn, who is the only person who has the brains, and is capable enough to take over as the head booker.
Click to expand...
The point was, anyone other than Trips. Don't care if they replace Trips with Scott DAmore.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Scarlett is great. It's a shame the era of valets is practically over. She could have been a massive star in another era. Because she is married in Kross in real life I also think it's unlikely that she will break away from him. Unless ofcourse they get divorced lol.
Click to expand...
She's a much better in ring worker than Kross tbh. Saw her matches in indies and TNA. she's pretty good.
 
shaz619 said:
The Great Sh!te pinned him for the title as well, Vladmir Koslov beat him clean, nobody can ever accuse Taker of not going out on his back, he has given the business his life & soul
Click to expand...
When he returned as the American Badass, he was squashing jobbers every week with the last ride i remember. But he made Jeff Hardy a Singles star in one match. Apart from that, his match with Angle at No Way Out in 2006. In 99 and 2000, he was wrestling Val Venis, T and A, and the jobber versions of Edge, Christian, Xpac, Road Dogg, Mideon, Raven etc.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
I have heard this rumor from a few people and I have to say I seriously question it. Especially considering how Mustafa Ali has been presented on TV before and after this period. Another rumor I heard, that I found more credible was Kevin Owens going over Bryan at WrestleMania.
Click to expand...

There were reports he was going win Elimination Chamber before he was replaced by Kofi who ended up winning the title, Mustafa Ali pinned Bryan clean in one of the SD main-events & Vince respected his attitude & how he stood up for himself, Vince genuinely liked Ali, I know that faction was doomed as well but Mustafa got significant TV time before the relationship grew sour. With Vince making decisions on impulse without dragging things out like H would, it was a big possibility.

talksport.com

When Vince McMahon told Mustafa Ali that Brock Lesnar was winning MITB, not him

Mustafa Ali was told on the day of Money in the Bank 2019 that he was winning the briefcase. As we all know, Brock Lesnar was the man that would take the briefcase home that night. So what happened…
talksport.com

At the minimum he would have had that breakout performance at EC.

Ah and he was the odds on favourite to win MITB until Lesnar happened, there was definitely a log more to the smoke back then and if wasn’t pure speculation. On a side note, that was pretty cruel from Vince letting Ali know he wasn’t going over for the MITB during the entrance 🤣 But that’s how you truly generate old school shock value.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Let's not get ahead of ourselves. Dwayne is poison too. And if he gets the reins it won't be him booking, it'll be his little side-kick stooge Brian Gewirtz. And we've already seen his brilliant ideas considering he was a head writer for WWE till 2015.

Simply put, Austin don't give s $hit. He is already filthy rich and I reckon he'd rather spend his days on his ranch drinking beer and chilling with his cute lil cat Pancho, then be dragged into this bull$hit.

That leaves behind Shawn, who is the only person who has the brains, and is capable enough to take over as the head booker.
Click to expand...

Pancho is more over then Seth Rollins.

Tbh the world needs to see more of Austin & Pancho, and especially Austin calling the cat an SOB
 
shaz619 said:
There were reports he was going win Elimination Chamber before he was replaced by Kofi who ended up winning the title, Mustafa Ali pinned Bryan clean in one of the SD main-events & Vince respected his attitude & how he stood up for himself, Vince genuinely liked Ali, I know that faction was doomed as well but Mustafa got significant TV time before the relationship grew sour. With Vince making decisions on impulse without dragging things out like H would, it was a big possibility.

talksport.com

When Vince McMahon told Mustafa Ali that Brock Lesnar was winning MITB, not him

Mustafa Ali was told on the day of Money in the Bank 2019 that he was winning the briefcase. As we all know, Brock Lesnar was the man that would take the briefcase home that night. So what happened…
talksport.com

At the minimum he would have had that breakout performance at EC.

Ah and he was the odds on favourite to win MITB until Lesnar happened, there was definitely a log more to the smoke back then and if wasn’t pure speculation. On a side note, that was pretty cruel from Vince letting Ali know he wasn’t going over for the MITB during the entrance 🤣 But that’s how you truly generate old school shock value.
Click to expand...
Bro Vince for me had completely lost it by this point. Yes, I will still take a senile, out of his mind Vince over Triple H any day of the way. But let's not forget Vince's booking is pretty much the reason AEW came into existence.

For me, his most egregious booking blunder in recent years was the booking of The Fiend. As we have discussed numerous times here, that character could have been the next Undertaker. But Vince did everything in his power to kill it, time and time again. First with that HIAC match between Fiend & Rollins, that somehow ended in a no-contest. A freakin' HIAC match ending in a no-contest. Then he had Goldberg squash him in Saudi and end his unbeaten run. Then there was that strange Randy Orton feud during the pandemic, which was essentially the final nail in the coffin for that character. I remember being really frustrated by how that whole feud and the match at WrestleMania panned out, and I think you shared the sentiment.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Bro Vince for me had completely lost it by this point. Yes, I will still take a senile, out of his mind Vince over Triple H any day of the way. But let's not forget Vince's booking is pretty much the reason AEW came into existence.

For me, his most egregious booking blunder in recent years was the booking of The Fiend. As we have discussed numerous times here, that character could have been the next Undertaker. But Vince did everything in his power to kill it, time and time again. First with that HIAC match between Fiend & Rollins, that somehow ended in a no-contest. A freakin' HIAC match ending in a no-contest. Then he had Goldberg squash him in Saudi and end his unbeaten run. Then there was that strange Randy Orton feud during the pandemic, which was essentially the final nail in the coffin for that character. I remember being really frustrated by how that whole feud and the match at WrestleMania panned out, and I think you shared the sentiment.
Click to expand...
There were still moments of genius even during that horrid time.
Like Drew's perfect booking when he won Rumble and then following it with a blockbuster feud with Randy. Edge-Randy feud, Edge Seth feud. Bryan AJ feuds.
 
BunnyRabbit said:
There were still moments of genius even during that horrid time.
Like Drew's perfect booking when he won Rumble and then following it with a blockbuster feud with Randy. Edge-Randy feud, Edge Seth feud. Bryan AJ feuds.
Click to expand...
True. Which is why I'll still take him over Triple H any week of the day
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Bro Vince for me had completely lost it by this point. Yes, I will still take a senile, out of his mind Vince over Triple H any day of the way. But let's not forget Vince's booking is pretty much the reason AEW came into existence.

For me, his most egregious booking blunder in recent years was the booking of The Fiend. As we have discussed numerous times here, that character could have been the next Undertaker. But Vince did everything in his power to kill it, time and time again. First with that HIAC match between Fiend & Rollins, that somehow ended in a no-contest. A freakin' HIAC match ending in a no-contest. Then he had Goldberg squash him in Saudi and end his unbeaten run. Then there was that strange Randy Orton feud during the pandemic, which was essentially the final nail in the coffin for that character. I remember being really frustrated by how that whole feud and the match at WrestleMania panned out, and I think you shared the sentiment.
Click to expand...

But this is why Vince age’s like fine wine due to 🤡🤡🤡🤡/10, for every example of not being happy with Vince about something, there is a counter example of H being a million times worse.

My biggest gripe with The Fiend was the 50/50 booking, and again, Vince was somebody who also seemed to suffer from an infatuation with Seth, he was looking for the next Shawn Michaels, instead he got a cross-fit Donkey, the closest thing to Shawn was AJ Styles & Vince said that he regretted not signing him 10 years earlier!

Anyway, as badly as The Fiend was booked, the character / Bray was completely lost under H. Bray experienced the lowest points in his career under the idiot who simply did not know how to handle such a complicated personality, when you consider the issues Bray was going through, the characters he bought to TV and while we should have had more, he did break into the main-event, all these factors now make me appreciate his booking a bit more.

I really don’t think anybody in the wrestling world could have promoted Bray any better so it’s fair that Vince had the responsibility of pushing him like he did the Undertaker, but can’t take away from H’s diabolical treatment of Wyatt & since then he hasn’t rectified himself with the Wyatt 6, H has a very dated & one dimensional outlook on wrestling. We will never see intriguing characters such as The Fiend under H and if we do, they will be stuck in the lower mid-card.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
I'm sure alot of people will interpret this as egotistical, but deep down they know he is 100% right.
Click to expand...

What did you make of his comments on Gunther? Tbh I don’t think Gunther should take it too personally because I am pretty sure he has even criticised Ric Flair about the chops as well, and to Bret’s credit, I guess Gunther does work a bit stiff at times and Bret is pretty hardcore about inflicting zero pain on his dance partner & how unnecessary it is, but not everyone will ever be able to work like Bret, I think at times he is guilty of not seeing how badly wrestling has regressed & having extremely high standards which are justified, though I can’t see anybody respect his code and/or creativity besides maybe CM Punk?
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
If nothing else, I am excited to see Edge & Christian v FTR. And if it happens on PPV at All Out in Toronto, it will surely blow the roof off the building.
Click to expand...

Is there any incentive for FTR to leave AEW going by the current WWE set-up? I am not sure….
 
shaz619 said:
Is there any incentive for FTR to leave AEW going by the current WWE set-up? I am not sure….
Click to expand...
Not a chance. I think they will sooner retire than go back. I'm sure you have heard their story of how H brought his Kliq buddies back just to bury FTR on the 25th Anniversary episode of RAW. Besides, the way H is booking that tag division, I can't imagine why any serious tag team in their prime would want to be a part of that, unless they were there to pick up the paycheck.

Even on their worst day, AEW's tag division is a million times better than WWE. Triple H could never even dream of booking matches like FTR v Bullet Club Gold or FTR v The Briscoes.
 
Triple H knew that Brock’s return would generate heat and garner criticism from a large section of fans, so he threw Cena under the bus by saying that it was his idea. What a slimy individual! :mad:
 
The_KING said:
Triple H knew that Brock’s return would generate heat and garner criticism from a large section of fans, so he threw Cena under the bus by saying that it was his idea. What a slimy individual! :mad:
Click to expand...

This is what I was trying to explain to @mominsaigol which you’ve summarised more eloquently in a brief post, he’s a big time snake. If he didn’t have such a flawed personality, maybe we could have celebrated parts of his career more & he could have gotten more out of himself by doing what was best for the wrestling industry, it’s just me, me, me with this egomaniac. Cena is well prepared for his bs though.
 
shaz619 said:
What did you make of his comments on Gunther? Tbh I don’t think Gunther should take it too personally because I am pretty sure he has even criticised Ric Flair about the chops as well, and to Bret’s credit, I guess Gunther does work a bit stiff at times and Bret is pretty hardcore about inflicting zero pain on his dance partner & how unnecessary it is, but not everyone will ever be able to work like Bret, I think at times he is guilty of not seeing how badly wrestling has regressed & having extremely high standards which are justified, though I can’t see anybody respect his code and/or creativity besides maybe CM Punk?
Click to expand...
I think it’s a case of different strokes, or two different schools of thought. Bret feels very passionately about wrestling and strongly follows his father’s philosophy. But I believe Gunther is mature enough to respect Bret’s opinion while still understanding what makes him unique. Chops are nothing new and, as you mentioned, were a big staple of Flair’s in-ring style. Before him Rikidozan and Wahoo McDaniel were also known for using them extensively. Similarly, the wrestlers Gunther looks up to were also known for wrestling a very physical and hard-hitting style, so I don’t think he’s going to change who he is.

In his interview with The Undertaker, Gunther mentioned that he’s a very blunt guy, as that’s part of the culture in Austria. So if anything, I think he appreciates when someone says something like this directly to his face, just as Bret said he did.
 
BunnyRabbit said:
There were still moments of genius even during that horrid time.
Like Drew's perfect booking when he won Rumble and then following it with a blockbuster feud with Randy. Edge-Randy feud, Edge Seth feud. Bryan AJ feuds.
Click to expand...

RedwoodOriginal said:
True. Which is why I'll still take him over Triple H any week of the day
Click to expand...

This should be regarded as one of the all time great modern matches:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1954944414176145798

Just a shame it will not be recalled too much due to Covid.
 
shaz619 said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1955045884888047968

H messed with the wrong guy, Cena is like the most media trained personality in wrestling, he will eat Triple Doofus alive :akhtar
Click to expand...
Doofus bit off more than he can chew.

Keeps trying to downplay bonafide legends, as I said he’s probably hella insecure that Cena came almost a decade after him, and made his career look like a blip in history, and so he’s trying to bully him by making Cena feel small because he’s younger and because doofus thinks Cena will buckle because he’s his “junior”

But this ain’t 2002, he’s Cena’s ***** at this point, if he were to ever come back to wrestling full time and wanted to do things his way, tko would 1000% let him and h would just have to sit back and watch.

One puts butts in seats, the other one empties them
 
Suleiman said:
Doofus bit off more than he can chew.

Keeps trying to downplay bonafide legends, as I said he’s probably hella insecure that Cena came almost a decade after him, and made his career look like a blip in history, and so he’s trying to bully him by making Cena feel small because he’s younger and because doofus thinks Cena will buckle because he’s his “junior”

But this ain’t 2002, he’s Cena’s ***** at this point, if he were to ever come back to wrestling full time and wanted to do things his way, tko would 1000% let him and h would just have to sit back and watch.

One puts butts in seats, the other one empties them
Click to expand...

First he antagonised The Rock, and now, this is proof that he did that and I didn’t even need this evidence to prove it, but Doofus worked himself into a shoot. All the legends are not mistreated because of some wider plan to get the roster over which he is flopping anyway, but it’s more to do with his insecurities, the dog is still bitter about being forced to do the job at WM 22 I bet. In his position, this is beyond unacceptable, first the Rock showed him and now Cena is using his media savvy to completely bury that piece of crap, I bet Doofus really thought Cena wouldn’t pick up on it, he’s going to see the full extent of Cena’s star power.
 
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