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I have watched El Hijo del Vikingo a few times now...in AAA and AEW , and I think no one is a more of damning indictment of how far Lucha Libre has fallen than this guy.

This guy is like 5'2' and all he basically is, is a professional gymnast and a spot monkey. There is zero psychology in his work, its just spot after spot after spot.

Last time you had Gable dragging him to a good match. This time Dominick, Dragon Lee and El Grande were working overtime to get a coherent match out of this guy. Luckily there was enough of them in this match to make this entertaining. But good god this Vikingo sucks....

The crowd reaction at the end (i.e. crickets chirping) seems to indicate that the fans are not too big on him either.

I really hope Dominick beats him for the belt at the next Worlds Collide. Atleast that might generate some heat. Either that or bring back Alberto and put the belt on him again.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
I played WCW Mayhem a loooong time ago. Remember enjoying it but didn't play it that much.
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I may revist it, I wonder how good a job EA actually did, obviously their best releases were the iconic Def Jam games but besides that, I am not sure. Had WCW not gone under, I think those Def Jam games could have been WCW games? I am not sure but read something about this ages ago.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
I have watched El Hijo del Vikingo a few times now...in AAA and AEW , and I think no one is a more of damning indictment of how far Lucha Libre has fallen than this guy.

This guy is like 5'2' and all he basically is, is a professional gymnast and a spot monkey. There is zero psychology in his work, its just spot after spot after spot.

Last time you had Gable dragging him to a good match. This time Dominick, Dragon Lee and El Grande were working overtime to get a coherent match out of this guy. Luckily there was enough of them in this match to make this entertaining. But good god this Vikingo sucks....

The crowd reaction at the end (i.e. crickets chirping) seems to indicate that the fans are not too big on him either.

I really hope Dominick beats him for the belt at the next Worlds Collide. Atleast that might generate some heat. Either that or bring back Alberto and put the belt on him again.
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I think Mexican fans know that Vikingo is the E’s handpicked guy to represent the promotion & they are not having any of it, in WWE’s eyes Alberto is the bad guy, but in Mexico, he’s arguably more over then ever and the fans will simply not accept anything other then him as champion, it’s a grave injustice done to them by the gringo vermin with a big nose I may add. Commercially they appear to be doing well, though I’ve not checked out this show myself.
 
shaz619 said:
Nope, but I heard it was good? didn’t appear to be remotely booked by H
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It was a good show. There wasn’t any outstanding match on the card, but it was well put together show. I think they hit all the right notes...everything the Mexican fans would expect from a big show like this. It didn’t overstay its welcome either. Best of all, it was available for free on YouTube, which I think was a great decision on their part to bring more eyeballs to the product. I enjoyed the commentary too...you had Corey Graves, Konnan, and JBL on English commentary.
 
shaz619 said:
I think Mexican fans know that Vikingo is the E’s handpicked guy to represent the promotion & they are not having any of it, in WWE’s eyes Alberto is the bad guy, but in Mexico, he’s arguably more over then ever and the fans will simply not accept anything other then him as champion, it’s a grave injustice done to them by the gringo vermin with a big nose I may add. Commercially they appear to be doing well, though I’ve not checked out this show myself.
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WWE need to understand the market and the fact that Alberto is a massive star there and very beloved. This clown Vikingo adds nothing and throughout the entire main-event the fans just rejected him. Even when he was preparing to do a spot, the fans knew and just started flat-out booing them.

There were alot of Alberto chants in this match too. I think the resentment stems from both Vikingo being perceived as a WWE guy, and the fact that he beat Alberto. And these guys just don't see him as a champion.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
WWE need to understand the market and the fact that Alberto is a massive star there and very beloved. This clown Vikingo adds nothing and throughout the entire main-event the fans just rejected him. Even when he was preparing to do a spot, the fans knew and just started flat-out booing them.

There were alot of Alberto chants in this match too. I think the resentment stems from both Vikingo being perceived as a WWE guy, and the fact that he beat Alberto. And these guys just don't see him as a champion.
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We’re moving away from the PC stuff so it’s pure ego if they don’t bring him back tbh If he could somehow get the most sharif admi in wrestling to offer him a deal, I bet Triple Doofus would book him right away….
 
@RedwoodOriginal

My suspicions are confirmed by the robot:

IMG_0937.png

Bah gawd, can you imagine the Def Jam games repackaged as WCW titles! They would have been insane!
 
shaz619 said:
@RedwoodOriginal

My suspicions are confirmed by the robot:

View attachment 157015

Bah gawd, can you imagine the Def Jam games repackaged as WCW titles! They would have been insane!
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That's interesting. I would have liked to see a WCW game as graphics and gameplay got better. Imagine a WCW game rivalling SmackDown HCTP? Another downside of WCW going out of business, we completely missed out on the video-game war
 
shaz619 said:
We’re moving away from the PC stuff so it’s pure ego if they don’t bring him back tbh If he could somehow get the most sharif admi in wrestling to offer him a deal, I bet Triple Doofus would book him right away….
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Nobody is telling them to put him on WWE TV, or even in the U.S. But you can't just sideline him if you are planning on running AAA in Mexico. You just can't.
 
@shaz619 I have to say I have somewhat warmed up to Omos aswell. His in-ring work aside there is some business to be done with him if you use him sparingly as a 'special attraction.' That's really the only way to use a giant in wrestling. Overexposing someone so physically unique takes away their uniqueness.

Unfortunately this idiot Triple H doesn't understand that. For someone who claims to be a 'student of the game' he basically books like mark. All he did with Omos in the last year is book him against another giant Braun Strowman, rather than use him to get someone over, because 'giant v giant will look so cool bro!'

By comparison, on this show they had him come out in their version of the Royal Rumble and just be a giant and mow through the field of competitors. And he came off looking like a beast. So now even Konnan is teaching Triple H how to book.
 
shaz619 said:
They need to step up, I can’t believe it’s a week before the PLE.

Like we use to complain about the build during the Network era, but the Netflix era is worse, at least they gave good value during the PPV/PLE’s in the past.
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Triple Nose doesn't know what to do after Mania-Rumble season (he doesn't know what to do on Mania either but other guys usually stand up during that time)
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
@shaz619 I have to say I have somewhat warmed up to Omos aswell. His in-ring work aside there is some business to be done with him if you use him sparingly as a 'special attraction.' That's really the only way to use a giant in wrestling. Overexposing someone so physically unique takes away their uniqueness.

Unfortunately this idiot Triple H doesn't understand that. For someone who claims to be a 'student of the game' he basically books like mark. All he did with Omos in the last year is book him against another giant Braun Strowman, rather than use him to get someone over, because 'giant v giant will look so cool bro!'

By comparison, on this show they had him come out in their version of the Royal Rumble and just be a giant and mow through the field of competitors. And he came off looking like a beast. So now even Konnan is teaching Triple H how to book.
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Braun had no business beating Omos. Lesnar put Omos over with his selling at Mania pretty well.
Omos can feud with someone like Reed or Hikuleo.
 
Hearing the rumors of Jericho going back to WWE in December. His AEW run has gone overtime and it's time for him to comeback for 4-5 months and get inducted in HOF. He can even be a perfect final opponent for John Cena considering he was the first victim of John Cena's career.
 
BunnyRabbit said:
Braun had no business beating Omos. Lesnar put Omos over with his selling at Mania pretty well.
Omos can feud with someone like Reed or Hikuleo.
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We don't need to see giant vs. giant feuds. That's the epitome of mark booking and what HHH has been doing. You need to use him only when it makes sense. The feudd he had with Lesnar and Lashley made sense. He needs to be in the right with guys who are of a different size, so there is a contrast of styles.

Nobody got over in that Omos vs Braun Strowman because neither guy had any credibility coming into that match to begin with. And they fired Braun from the company too lol.
 
BunnyRabbit said:
Hearing the rumors of Jericho going back to WWE in December. His AEW run has gone overtime and it's time for him to comeback for 4-5 months and get inducted in HOF. He can even be a perfect final opponent for John Cena considering he was the first victim of John Cena's career.
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Jericho needs to do everyone a favor and stay as far away from the ring as possible.
 
BunnyRabbit said:
Hearing the rumors of Jericho going back to WWE in December. His AEW run has gone overtime and it's time for him to comeback for 4-5 months and get inducted in HOF. He can even be a perfect final opponent for John Cena considering he was the first victim of John Cena's career.
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Lol Cena v Jericho in 2025 will be a trainwreck of epic proportions. And not because of Cena. Believe me, you don't want to see that.

I don't know how much of Jericho you have seen lately but basically looks like Jake Roberts at Heroes of Wrestling these days. Infact at this point, his matches would actually benefit from him being under the influence.
 
Man it's a shame Naomi's unborn child got in the way of what was shaping up to be a pretty good heel run
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Lol Cena v Jericho in 2025 will be a trainwreck of epic proportions. And not because of Cena. Believe me, you don't want to see that.

I don't know how much of Jericho you have seen lately but basically looks like Jake Roberts at Heroes of Wrestling these days. Infact at this point, his matches would actually benefit from him being under the influence.
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I last saw Jericho vs Ospreay
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Lol Cena v Jericho in 2025 will be a trainwreck of epic proportions. And not because of Cena. Believe me, you don't want to see that.

I don't know how much of Jericho you have seen lately but basically looks like Jake Roberts at Heroes of Wrestling these days. Infact at this point, his matches would actually benefit from him being under the influence.
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I'd rather see Jericho vs Cena than Cena vs Seth for his final match.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Jericho needs to do everyone a favor and stay as far away from the ring as possible.
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It’s all just to get a more lucrative deal from Tony, Jericho is very good at pushing all the right buttons when it comes to the money mark. It would be a surprise to see him in WWE under Doofus.
 
BunnyRabbit said:
I last saw Jericho vs Ospreay
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Same, when Jericho’s on it, he’s so good, that was Ospreay’s best match & Jericho carried the Temu GOAT, he genuinely set the match up like he’d have done so in his prime.
 
shaz619 said:
It’s all just to get a more lucrative deal from Tony, Jericho is very good at pushing all the right buttons when it comes to the money mark. It would be a surprise to see him in WWE under Doofus.
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Exactly. I think it's fairly obvious what he's trying to do. He knows where his bread is buttered, no way he's leaving AEW
 
shaz619 said:
Same, when Jericho’s on it, he’s so good, that was Ospreay’s best match & Jericho carried the Temu GOAT, he genuinely set the match up like he’d have done so in his prime.
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Jericho got a really good and coherent match out of Moxley aswell. This was right before the Punk v Moxley match at All Out. Since last year though he has become really tough to watch. Seems he's hitting the bottle pretty hard too
 
shaz619 said:
Anything which involves Seth is mid, not even Heyman can get that chump over. Bronson & Bron / Heyman are not a terrible duo at all and have some chemistry, Seth just brings them all down it’s a shame.
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Reminds me of when Paul went from managing Brock Lesnar to managing Big Show lol
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Jericho got a really good and coherent match out of Moxley aswell. This was right before the Punk v Moxley match at All Out. Since last year though he has become really tough to watch. Seems he's hitting the bottle pretty hard too
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I hope he doesn’t turn into Jake Roberts, maybe Jericho needs the WWE set up to get his act together, at least he has been somewhat more of a pro for AEW then Moxley however before it all went to sh!ts. Jericho’s politicking has surprised me because whenever he came back to WWE it was to create storylines or charachters we had not seen before & he wanted to really push the barriers, he did it to some extent for AEW but even in his lowest for the E, he generally behaved well. Maybe those H burials eventually caught up to the point he turned into the very thing be despised.
 
shaz619 said:
I hope he doesn’t turn into Jake Roberts, maybe Jericho needs the WWE set up to get his act together, at least he has been somewhat more of a pro for AEW then Moxley however before it all went to sh!ts. Jericho’s politicking has surprised me because whenever he came back to WWE it was to create storylines or charachters we had not seen before & he wanted to really push the barriers, he did it to some extent for AEW but even in his lowest for the E, he generally behaved well. Maybe those H burials eventually caught up to the point he turned into the very thing be despised.
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Bingo on the last line. Exactly what I was thinking. In AEW, the moment he came in, he came in as the biggest star. He didn't have to fight anyone to get his way because the booker was already his self-professed 'biggest fan' since childhood. But I still think that's fine. Every big star does that. What been most disappointing is how he has just completely ran out of good ideas. Which is surprising because Jericho was the master of reinvention and was known for coming up with some great ideas. In AEW, I can't really recall him coming up with anything good besides during the early days of AEW when he was feuding with Moxley. The well has been dry for a very long time.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Bingo on the last line. Exactly what I was thinking. In AEW, the moment he came in, he came in as the biggest star. He didn't have to fight anyone to get his way because the booker was already his self-professed 'biggest fan' since childhood. But I still think that's fine. Every big star does that. What been most disappointing is how he has just completely ran out of good ideas. Which is surprising because Jericho was the master of reinvention and was known for coming up with some great ideas. In AEW, I can't really recall him coming up with anything good besides during the early days of AEW when he was feuding with Moxley. The well has been dry for a very long time.
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The Le Champion character was fantastic and he was a great title holder for AEW, had great matches as well, he was the right guy for them to carry the company in those early days. You know like how H doesn’t have a creative bone in his body, it’s quiet the opposite for Jericho, whether it was wrestling, the Fozzy stuff, media activities or writing his own books; he excelled in any area he put his mind to, he got close to breaking into Hollywood at one point but got slightly unlucky, I am pretty sure he had the same agent as Batista at one point. When I look at his run in AEW, I see a guy who was motivated in the first year or two to push the boundaries, but after that, he understood very quickly what he was dealing with when it came to the leadership and wasn’t motivated to go beyond the bare minimum; it was calculated risk because Jericho knows that for everything in the E, he has to work that much harder and after fighting for so many years, he decided to basically put his feet up and chill, Punk & Cody still had a lot to prove, Jericho has been there & done that, yet was never quiet treated like the star he should have been, so when Tony gave him that position, he used it to his own advantage & Tony’s lack of leadership couldn’t bring out the Jericho which was willing to die for Vince.

Such a troll:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1957837709935824919
 
shaz619 said:
The Le Champion character was fantastic and he was a great title holder for AEW, had great matches as well, he was the right guy for them to carry the company in those early days. You know like how H doesn’t have a creative bone in his body, it’s quiet the opposite for Jericho, whether it was wrestling, the Fozzy stuff, media activities or writing his own books; he excelled in any area he put his mind to, he got close to breaking into Hollywood at one point but got slightly unlucky, I am pretty sure he had the same agent as Batista at one point. When I look at his run in AEW, I see a guy who was motivated in the first year or two to push the boundaries, but after that, he understood very quickly what he was dealing with when it came to the leadership and wasn’t motivated to go beyond the bare minimum; it was calculated risk because Jericho knows that for everything in the E, he has to work that much harder and after fighting for so many years, he decided to basically put his feet up and chill, Punk & Cody still had a lot to prove, Jericho has been there & done that, yet was never quiet treated like the star he should have been, so when Tony gave him that position, he used it to his own advantage & Tony’s lack of leadership couldn’t bring out the Jericho which was willing to die for Vince.

Such a troll:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1957837709935824919
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Tony Khan reading that tweet:

IMG_1034.gif
 
shaz619 said:
The Le Champion character was fantastic and he was a great title holder for AEW, had great matches as well, he was the right guy for them to carry the company in those early days. You know like how H doesn’t have a creative bone in his body, it’s quiet the opposite for Jericho, whether it was wrestling, the Fozzy stuff, media activities or writing his own books; he excelled in any area he put his mind to, he got close to breaking into Hollywood at one point but got slightly unlucky, I am pretty sure he had the same agent as Batista at one point. When I look at his run in AEW, I see a guy who was motivated in the first year or two to push the boundaries, but after that, he understood very quickly what he was dealing with when it came to the leadership and wasn’t motivated to go beyond the bare minimum; it was calculated risk because Jericho knows that for everything in the E, he has to work that much harder and after fighting for so many years, he decided to basically put his feet up and chill, Punk & Cody still had a lot to prove, Jericho has been there & done that, yet was never quiet treated like the star he should have been, so when Tony gave him that position, he used it to his own advantage & Tony’s lack of leadership couldn’t bring out the Jericho which was willing to die for Vince.

Such a troll:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1957837709935824919
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Yeah but that just makes me respect him even less. Punk was also working for the same mark booker, and actually encountered far more hurdles in that company than Jericho has in his entire run. And yet he was still motivated to put on great wrestling TV. And personally I very much saw that as 'if I'm going to be involved in it, it ought to be good.' I used to think Jericho was that type of individual too but I guess at some point he seemingly just gave up, and decided he was going to coast on the paycheck. Ofcourse it doesn't take away from all the great work he has done up till this point, but still it's disappointing to see one of your favorites fall in such a spectacular fashion. And I was always a Jericho fan. From the time I started watching wrestling until a couple of years ago, I was always a fan of Jericho and whatever he was doing.

Also, I don't believe that Punk had something to prove. I think anyone who is a multi-time world champion, and has had their moment in the sun like Punk did all those years ago, doesn't have anything to prove. I personally feel that Punk missed wrestling, wasn't happy with the way he left the business, and, wanted to make good wrestling TV. I'm sure UFC and acting not panning out played a part in him coming back, but he doesn't strike me as the type of person who came back to prove a point to anyone besides himself. And that personal challenge is something all the GOATs in any walk of life create for themselves.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Peak of AEW. I think this was one week before All Out 2021, the PPV debut of Punk. And this was a really good main-event for the debut episode of a show. Christian won to a big pop. Feels like an eternity ago now..

https://twitter.com/x/status/1955610423820243444
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I am glad that Christian found success in TNA & AEW, because WWE never used him properly. It still pisses me off that he lost the world heavyweight title two days after winning it to Randy Orton in 2011. Vince treated him like sh*t.
 
The_KING said:
I am glad that Christian found success in TNA & AEW, because WWE never used him properly. It still pisses me off that he lost the world heavyweight title two days after winning it to Randy Orton in 2011. Vince treated him like sh*t.
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Yes the treatment of Christian has to be up there in the list of Vince McMahon booking crimes. Todd Grisham even said that when Christian made his return to WWECW, Vince told him to not be excited on commentary, and undersell it.

www.yahoo.com

Todd Grisham Says Vince McMahon Told Him To Undersell Christian’s Return To WWE In 2009

If you recall Christian Cage‘s 2009 WWE return via the ECW brand being underwhelming due to Todd Grisham‘s commentary, there was a reason for that. Christian’s 2009 WWE return was recently discussed online due to the lack of enthusiasm from former commentator Todd Grisham. Grisham responded on...
www.yahoo.com www.yahoo.com

Which is such a shame because he is such an excellent wrestler and promo, and has been since the early 2000's. Poor guy had to wait for Edge's career to end to finally win a World title. And as much as I enjoyed that heel run of his that followed, it always felt like he was just being used to elevate Orton as a babyface, rather than be established as one of the top heels on that show. I mean you couldn't even have him win the belt at WrestleMania when it was essentially confirmed that Edge was retiring?

I enjoyed his run in TNA, as short-lived as it was. And his AEW run has been largely good too. Unlike alot of the other heels these days who go out there and try to act cool, he actually tries to be a heel and be disliked by the fans. And by the looks of it, he and Edge will be reuniting as a tag team soon, so that should be good.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Yeah but that just makes me respect him even less. Punk was also working for the same mark booker, and actually encountered far more hurdles in that company than Jericho has in his entire run. And yet he was still motivated to put on great wrestling TV. And personally I very much saw that as 'if I'm going to be involved in it, it ought to be good.' I used to think Jericho was that type of individual too but I guess at some point he seemingly just gave up, and decided he was going to coast on the paycheck. Ofcourse it doesn't take away from all the great work he has done up till this point, but still it's disappointing to see one of your favorites fall in such a spectacular fashion. And I was always a Jericho fan. From the time I started watching wrestling until a couple of years ago, I was always a fan of Jericho and whatever he was doing.

Also, I don't believe that Punk had something to prove. I think anyone who is a multi-time world champion, and has had their moment in the sun like Punk did all those years ago, doesn't have anything to prove. I personally feel that Punk missed wrestling, wasn't happy with the way he left the business, and, wanted to make good wrestling TV. I'm sure UFC and acting not panning out played a part in him coming back, but he doesn't strike me as the type of person who came back to prove a point to anyone besides himself. And that personal challenge is something all the GOATs in any walk of life create for themselves.
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I meant that Punk had something to prove after the huge gap on a personal level. Jericho achieved so much in this business, literally not too far off mount-rushmore for his impact and pioneering contributions, Jericho could have retired instead of going to a dump like AEW & he would never be regarded any less. So in that sense I mean to say Jericho wasn’t as fresh & probably didn’t want to go beyond the minimum after his first few years with the idiot leadership in place, while Punk had his booker / promoter hat on to and genuinely wanted to take AEW to heights they can only ever dream off now. Had Tony gave Punk the same position as Jericho, he would have achieved something perhaps.

But just think about this, honestly, it doesn’t matter if you’re CM Punk, Jericho, Cody, or even Daniel Bryan; if you create a Disney World for wrestlers, you’re not going anywhere. Bryan is still there and he has such vast experience, he could easily help Tony right, with booking and growth, but even he has manipulated Khan & I don’t blame him, Punk would as well but his selfishness ultimately benefits everyone and I might sound like a mark for saying that. William Regal was there for gods sake and people like Arn!

Historically speaking, any promoter expecting a big name not to use their influence in someway to benefit themselves, especially when they are even encouraged to do so, as long as they say a few nice words, are kidding themselves!

I agree Jericho isn’t the kind of personality he use to be, but the environment created by Tony has enabled him. And any other big name who works there currently or signs tomorrow will run rings around him.
 
The_KING said:
I am glad that Christian found success in TNA & AEW, because WWE never used him properly. It still pisses me off that he lost the world heavyweight title two days after winning it to Randy Orton in 2011. Vince treated him like sh*t.
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The fact he still won the WHC was a big deal imo when you consider Vince never saw him as THE guy, he was also very superstitious about pushing guys who got injured a lot, with that in mind I am happy Christian got to win a world title there and it meant so much to him. Just think how talented Matt Hardy & Bubbah were & they never won a title over there.

Christain had just a great run as NWA world champion in the 2000’s, if Vince watched other promotions maybe he would have been more receptive to the idea of Christain being a regular top of the card performer, instead he relied on the input of the monkey’s around him and then under his umbrella he followed his instincts for better or worse and was very superstitious.
 
shaz619 said:
The fact he still won the WHC was a big deal imo when you consider Vince never saw him as THE guy, he was also very superstitious about pushing guys who got injured a lot, with that in mind I am happy Christian got to win a world title there and it meant so much to him. Just think how talented Matt Hardy & Bubbah were & they never won a title over there.

Christain had just a great run as NWA world champion in the 2000’s, if Vince watched other promotions maybe he would have been more receptive to the idea of Christain being a regular top of the card performer, instead he relied on the input of the monkey’s around him and then under his umbrella he followed his instincts for better or worse and was very superstitious.
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I am at a point where I genuinely feel like no booker or promoter can be just and always correct all the time when it comes to seeing stars in wrestlers. But Vince had the best instinct out of them all and took lesser damage than all of them combined. Vince just got old.
 
shaz619 said:
I meant that Punk had something to prove after the huge gap on a personal level. Jericho achieved so much in this business, literally not too far off mount-rushmore for his impact and pioneering contributions, Jericho could have retired instead of going to a dump like AEW & he would never be regarded any less. So in that sense I mean to say Jericho wasn’t as fresh & probably didn’t want to go beyond the minimum after his first few years with the idiot leadership in place, while Punk had his booker / promoter hat on to and genuinely wanted to take AEW to heights they can only ever dream off now. Had Tony gave Punk the same position as Jericho, he would have achieved something perhaps.

But just think about this, honestly, it doesn’t matter if you’re CM Punk, Jericho, Cody, or even Daniel Bryan; if you create a Disney World for wrestlers, you’re not going anywhere. Bryan is still there and he has such vast experience, he could easily help Tony right, with booking and growth, but even he has manipulated Khan & I don’t blame him, Punk would as well but his selfishness ultimately benefits everyone and I might sound like a mark for saying that. William Regal was there for gods sake and people like Arn!

Historically speaking, any promoter expecting a big name not to use their influence in someway to benefit themselves, especially when they are even encouraged to do so, as long as they say a few nice words, are kidding themselves!

I agree Jericho isn’t the kind of personality he use to be, but the environment created by Tony has enabled him. And any other big name who works there currently or signs tomorrow will run rings around him.
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Jericho himself said that he signed with AEW cause he hadn't been offered that much money ever before. And he even toldV Vince about the offer and Vince told him then why dont you sign. And when he did sign, Vince called him and said why did you sign with AEW? :ROFLMAO:
 
I'd be fine for a Jericho nostalgia run in WWE since I didn't follow up much after 2022 in AEW. WWE casuals would love him as well. And at 55 years, no one is going to be expecting him to be what he used to be 10 years ago. As long as he has those mic skills with him, he'll be fine provided the run doesn't overstay its welcome. And Jericho is much better than others to know how to put over the new stars.
 
BunnyRabbit said:
I'd be fine for a Jericho nostalgia run in WWE since I didn't follow up much after 2022 in AEW. WWE casuals would love him as well. And at 55 years, no one is going to be expecting him to be what he used to be 10 years ago. As long as he has those mic skills with him, he'll be fine provided the run doesn't overstay its welcome. And Jericho is much better than others to know how to put over the new stars.
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The crazy thing is that WWE’s audience is so far away from the rest of the wrestling industry that he would be treated like he was returning after being away from the business for a very long period, AEW have done nothing to grow their audience or company these past 5 years, if anything, they’ve forced a decline of the kinda fans they use to appeal to begin with.

A decent chunk of the core fanbase don’t even know this happened:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1958153213405696105

However, of those WWE casuals who did know, Punk was a key to introduce them to AEW and Tony wasted that massively.

His original run / comeback hit different.
 
Is Chris Jericho returning to WWE?

If he does, I hope he will feud with Cena. Perhaps Cena can retire by beating Jericho.

 
shaz619 said:
The fact he still won the WHC was a big deal imo when you consider Vince never saw him as THE guy, he was also very superstitious about pushing guys who got injured a lot, with that in mind I am happy Christian got to win a world title there and it meant so much to him. Just think how talented Matt Hardy & Bubbah were & they never won a title over there.

Christain had just a great run as NWA world champion in the 2000’s, if Vince watched other promotions maybe he would have been more receptive to the idea of Christain being a regular top of the card performer, instead he relied on the input of the monkey’s around him and then under his umbrella he followed his instincts for better or worse and was very superstitious.
Click to expand...
I never saw it with Matt. Bubba was never a great, or even a good wrestler...but he was a good worker. And I think we got to see alot of that in TNA during his run as Bully Ray where he was really good. By comparison Christian checked all the boxes, which is why it was so disappointing to see how he was treated. I mean imagine re-signing with WWE and thinking you've made it back to the big leagues, only for your boss to tell the commentator to undersell your comeback. You can't make this s**t up..
 
shaz619 said:
The crazy thing is that WWE’s audience is so far away from the rest of the wrestling industry that he would be treated like he was returning after being away from the business for a very long period, AEW have done nothing to grow their audience or company these past 5 years, if anything, they’ve forced a decline of the kinda fans they use to appeal to begin with.

A decent chunk of the core fanbase don’t even know this happened:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1958153213405696105

However, of those WWE casuals who did know, Punk was a key to introduce them to AEW and Tony wasted that massively.

His original run / comeback hit different.
Click to expand...
Exactly. As good and surprising as the Survivor Series return was, this was just in another league altogether. The fact that they sold out the United Center on a rumor tells you all you need to know about the magnitude of this man. And as we've discussed numerous times, his AEW run is just incredible. People will be talking about it years from now because that's just how great that output of promos, segments and matches was.

This WWE run will never measure up to that, because it's not Punk booking Punk....it's that dimwit Pinocchio who wouldn't know a good idea if it smacked him in the face.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
I'm sure he will be back in Jan after his next movie tanks

https://twitter.com/x/status/1958551271872348621
Click to expand...
Rock still has passion for the business but he has an ego with brighter ideas than h who has an ego with dimwit dumb ideas.

So when their egos clash, rock says eff it. H is too controlling.

He didn’t want to sign on for whatever trainwreck h had planned esp since goofy h was gonna ruin the Cena heel run by bringing Brock back anyway and abruptly have Cena turn face overnight… am sure rock is glad he left this botched story line early otherwise just like with Cena h would try to throw him under the bus as well
 
Suleiman said:
Rock still has passion for the business but he has an ego with brighter ideas than h who has an ego with dimwit dumb ideas.

So when their egos clash, rock says eff it. H is too controlling.

He didn’t want to sign on for whatever trainwreck h had planned esp since goofy h was gonna ruin the Cena heel run by bringing Brock back anyway and abruptly have Cena turn face overnight… am sure rock is glad he left this botched story line early otherwise just like with Cena h would try to throw him under the bus as well
Click to expand...
If they had put their egos aside and acted like responsible adults, we could have gotten something great. You could argue about who was more to blame, but at the end of the day, I see two egomaniacs whose egos got bruised and who cared more about what was good for them, rather than what was good for wrestling. As a result, wrestling suffered. To be honest, I dislike them both and would be perfectly happy never seeing either of them again.

Rock is a Hollywood phony who has completely sold any shred of who he once was. His instincts about wrestling these days seem terrible, and he is too much of a risk to himself in the ring to have a proper match. Triple H, meanwhile, has been completely exposed as a booker over the past year. His instincts seem to be even worse, and he has no idea know how to create stars. He has pretty much run this company into the ground creatively with his booking, all while patting himself on the back for a job well done.

If it were up to me, you would never see either of these two in WWE again.
 
Let's not forget that The Rock thought they should turn Cody heel and put the belt on Kevin Owens. Both of which were horrible ideas. Idea one would have made zero sense and would have not only jeopardized long-term WWE business, but would have also ruined the 3 years of work it took to bring Cody to this place.

Idea two would have left them standing with their d*cks in their hands going into Mania considering this is right around the time when KO was having issues with his neck, and had that terrible neck injury that is keeping him out of action for the foreseeable future.

And it's not even that it's just The Rock who is coming up with these ideas. It's his 'team', which includes people like his p*$$ bottle carrying assistant Brian Gewirtz, and other dimwitted writers who I'm sure are not too different from the clowns we got to see in WWE Unreal.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Exactly. As good and surprising as the Survivor Series return was, this was just in another league altogether. The fact that they sold out the United Center on a rumor tells you all you need to know about the magnitude of this man. And as we've discussed numerous times, his AEW run is just incredible. People will be talking about it years from now because that's just how great that output of promos, segments and matches was.

This WWE run will never measure up to that, because it's not Punk booking Punk....it's that dimwit Pinocchio who wouldn't know a good idea if it smacked him in the face.
Click to expand...

Honestly it comes down to preference because Punk understands his audience so well and can manipulate the creative as needed to achieve the best results, and his WWE run arguably has been equally special, also when you consider the constraints & dealing with Triple Doofus, we also need to appreciate how disciplined Punk has been and he has literally tried to accommodate the demands of the system as much as possible, he has kept his worst instincts & demons at bay and the structure has helped there and I imagine a boat load of cash to.

Punk is a top 5 all timer, just look at how mediocre the build was for his match with Gunther, and this match / moment changed everything:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1951907256317936025

Despite the horrible programming lately, CM Punk is driving the company literally, whether at live events or at TV, there are complaints about how limited screen time he’s getting and the fans appreciate his work a great deal, I mean it’s what I mainly look forward to every week and skip 90% off everything else.

With that being said, for me personally, and I said this during the AEW stint & before his WWE run began, as an all-round performer, he was producing the best performances & storylines since Shawn Michaels in the early 2000’s. Punk had the freedom to show his range & my god the promo’s & matches were some of the best we have ever seen, it’s just a shame that we never got to explore a full program beyond the one with MJF & WWE have kind of rectified that with Drew especially & maybe Seth although I am sick of Darth Burius v2, but the individual promo’s, matches & characterisation were phenomenal really, if he hung around there a tad longer, he probably could have been the biggest heel in wrestling.

But Punk has such a high ring IQ that he has adjusted for the global wrestling fanbase, he looks fantastic, he has accounted for his brutal schedule by working a lot smarter & he prioritises the ring psychology as much as he possibly can & gets the most out of his opponents evidently before they get lost in the shuffle again because of how clueless H is. The 2000’s indie mark in me saw the best template of how that wrestling philosophy could work with some tweaks & draw a bit of cash before Coke Khan took that away from me, now this run is still special and it represents everything a pro-wrestler should be, ignoring how Punk should be booked even stronger, but we’ve seen the end of that 2000’s indie / RA wrestling style, we may see it every now & then like we did with Gunther, but am afraid AEW can’t remotely make up for the loss off Punk.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
I never saw it with Matt. Bubba was never a great, or even a good wrestler...but he was a good worker. And I think we got to see alot of that in TNA during his run as Bully Ray where he was really good. By comparison Christian checked all the boxes, which is why it was so disappointing to see how he was treated. I mean imagine re-signing with WWE and thinking you've made it back to the big leagues, only for your boss to tell the commentator to undersell your comeback. You can't make this s**t up..
Click to expand...

When you look at the talent right now, both men had world title pedigree, however I agree that Christian had it arguably as much as Edge. That sh!t is hilarious though LOL Aaah god damn it it’s that Christain!!!! you shut the hell up!
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Let's not forget that The Rock thought they should turn Cody heel and put the belt on Kevin Owens. Both of which were horrible ideas. Idea one would have made zero sense and would have not only jeopardized long-term WWE business, but would have also ruined the 3 years of work it took to bring Cody to this place.

Idea two would have left them standing with their d*cks in their hands going into Mania considering this is right around the time when KO was having issues with his neck, and had that terrible neck injury that is keeping him out of action for the foreseeable future.

And it's not even that it's just The Rock who is coming up with these ideas. It's his 'team', which includes people like his p*$$ bottle carrying assistant Brian Gewirtz, and other dimwitted writers who I'm sure are not too different from the clowns we got to see in WWE Unreal.
Click to expand...

The Rock’s a weirdo under Hollywood but there is no comparison between him and H who is completely responsible for his failed leadership, this guy tried to throw Cena under the bus, I mean does he really think he can rub his big nose in the faces of these much bigger stars and get away with it? The Rock became arguably the biggest star in wrestling history, he became a huge name in Hollywood and used that to take our sports popularity to new heights, he is a third generation talent, females on his side of the family have literally run entire wrestling territories ignoring what his dad and others achieved. Wrestling’s in his blood and it’s a cake walk for him which is why it’s always there no matter what happens in Hollywood, fans didn’t want the Hollywood face Rock but he created the Final Boss & has to this day, done a much better job building heat on Cody then anyone else, everything he has done on TV when in character has been phenomenal, we even got the Hollywood Heel Rock theme back.

If we never got the pay-off to x or there were issues with his appearances, I blame it all on H, if you rub any big star the wrong way, that’s not good leadership is it, after-all, H is clueless anyway and can’t be trusted creatively so I find it hard to feel any sympathy for him and ultimately he ruined the Wrestlemania main-event, something he has enjoyed doing in each decade of the 21st century.
 
shaz619 said:
Honestly it comes down to preference because Punk understands his audience so well and can manipulate the creative as needed to achieve the best results, and his WWE run arguably has been equally special, also when you consider the constraints & dealing with Triple Doofus, we also need to appreciate how disciplined Punk has been and he has literally tried to accommodate the demands of the system as much as possible, he has kept his worst instincts & demons at bay and the structure has helped there and I imagine a boat load of cash to.

Punk is a top 5 all timer, just look at how mediocre the build was for his match with Gunther, and this match / moment changed everything:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1951907256317936025

Despite the horrible programming lately, CM Punk is driving the company literally, whether at live events or at TV, there are complaints about how limited screen time he’s getting and the fans appreciate his work a great deal, I mean it’s what I mainly look forward to every week and skip 90% off everything else.

With that being said, for me personally, and I said this during the AEW stint & before his WWE run began, as an all-round performer, he was producing the best performances & storylines since Shawn Michaels in the early 2000’s. Punk had the freedom to show his range & my god the promo’s & matches were some of the best we have ever seen, it’s just a shame that we never got to explore a full program beyond the one with MJF & WWE have kind of rectified that with Drew especially & maybe Seth although I am sick of Darth Burius v2, but the individual promo’s, matches & characterisation were phenomenal really, if he hung around there a tad longer, he probably could have been the biggest heel in wrestling.

But Punk has such a high ring IQ that he has adjusted for the global wrestling fanbase, he looks fantastic, he has accounted for his brutal schedule by working a lot smarter & he prioritises the ring psychology as much as he possibly can & gets the most out of his opponents evidently before they get lost in the shuffle again because of how clueless H is. The 2000’s indie mark in me saw the best template of how that wrestling philosophy could work with some tweaks & draw a bit of cash before Coke Khan took that away from me, now this run is still special and it represents everything a pro-wrestler should be, ignoring how Punk should be booked even stronger, but we’ve seen the end of that 2000’s indie / RA wrestling style, we may see it every now & then like we did with Gunther, but am afraid AEW can’t remotely make up for the loss off Punk.
Click to expand...
Punk has actually looked a lot more fresh and jubilant in WWE than he did in AEW. Apart from that shoulder injury, he's been injury free as well.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Let's not forget that The Rock thought they should turn Cody heel and put the belt on Kevin Owens. Both of which were horrible ideas. Idea one would have made zero sense and would have not only jeopardized long-term WWE business, but would have also ruined the 3 years of work it took to bring Cody to this place.

Idea two would have left them standing with their d*cks in their hands going into Mania considering this is right around the time when KO was having issues with his neck, and had that terrible neck injury that is keeping him out of action for the foreseeable future.

And it's not even that it's just The Rock who is coming up with these ideas. It's his 'team', which includes people like his p*$$ bottle carrying assistant Brian Gewirtz, and other dimwitted writers who I'm sure are not too different from the clowns we got to see in WWE Unreal.
Click to expand...
I'd take KO as champ over Seth any day of the week.
 
shaz619 said:
The Rock’s a weirdo under Hollywood but there is no comparison between him and H who is completely responsible for his failed leadership, this guy tried to throw Cena under the bus, I mean does he really think he can rub his big nose in the faces of these much bigger stars and get away with it? The Rock became arguably the biggest star in wrestling history, he became a huge name in Hollywood and used that to take our sports popularity to new heights, he is a third generation talent, females on his side of the family have literally run entire wrestling territories ignoring what his dad and others achieved. Wrestling’s in his blood and it’s a cake walk for him which is why it’s always there no matter what happens in Hollywood, fans didn’t want the Hollywood face Rock but he created the Final Boss & has to this day, done a much better job building heat on Cody then anyone else, everything he has done on TV when in character has been phenomenal, we even got the Hollywood Heel Rock theme back.

If we never got the pay-off to x or there were issues with his appearances, I blame it all on H, if you rub any big star the wrong way, that’s not good leadership is it, after-all, H is clueless anyway and can’t be trusted creatively so I find it hard to feel any sympathy for him and ultimately he ruined the Wrestlemania main-event, something he has enjoyed doing in each decade of the 21st century.
Click to expand...
When Dwayne got challenged by being stale, he created one of the best characters of recent time in pro wrestling, the final boss and ended up giving us the best Mania build up in over a decade. When Noseley got challenged, he ended up having Travis Scott costing Cody the title in main event of Mania. Let that sink in. Trips doesn't even come close to The Rock in terms of wrestling creativity. If Austin and Dwayne hadn't left WWE in 2004, Noseley wouldn't have risen to the reign of terror.
 
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