Trump pauses some reciprocal Tariffs for 90 Days, Raises China Tariffs to 125% [Update@post270]

[Stewie]

Exactly.

Mitt Romney summed it up nicely:

Trump University was one of the biggest scams ever. So many people cheated out of their money for some education and training that promised them riches and did not do any good. It was all lies.

 

[HalBass9]

The Chinese government has told the country's domestic airlines to stop accepting deliveries of Boeing jets as a trade war between the world's two largest economies escalates

China orders its airlines to stop accepting deliveries of Boeing jets, report says

As its trade war with the U.S. widens, China has ordered its airlines to stop accepting Boeing jet deliveries, Bloomberg reports.

www.cbsnews.com

You know, folks, they keep saying we're winning, winning like never before. But honestly, it's getting a bit much. Bing, bang, boom, so much winning, it's almost too much.

 

[Stewie]

The Chinese government has told the country's domestic airlines to stop accepting deliveries of Boeing jets as a trade war between the world's two largest economies escalates

China orders its airlines to stop accepting deliveries of Boeing jets, report says

As its trade war with the U.S. widens, China has ordered its airlines to stop accepting Boeing jet deliveries, Bloomberg reports.

www.cbsnews.com

You know, folks, they keep saying we're winning, winning like never before. But honestly, it's getting a bit much. Bing, bang, boom, so much winning, it's almost too much.

Knowing how American corporations work fully well, I am sure Boeing will have the knives out and will be ready to start laying people off now that their bottom line is threatened. This is how it works. Will say it again, Trump is gambling with the livelihood of Americans.

and it has somewhat happened already, in fact:
https://www.manufacturingdive.com/n...eston-south-carolina-sls-artemis-nasa/740675/

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

 

[sweep_shot]

View attachment 153372

LOL!

China is a good troll.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Hong Kong suspends postal service to the US after Trump’s tariff hikes​

Hong Kong’s postal service will stop handling packages coming from or going to the United States, in the latest retaliatory move amid an escalating trade war between Washington and Beijing.​

In a statement published Wednesday announcing the decision, the government of Hong Kong cited US President Donald Trump’s decision last week to eliminate the so-called de minimis exception for items posted from the city to the US. The exemption applied to international shipments worth $800 or less entering the US.

The US is unreasonable, bullying and imposing tariffs abusively,” the government said in the statement. “The public in Hong Kong should be prepared to pay exorbitant and unreasonable fees due to the US’s unreasonable and bullying acts.”


The government said the postal service, Hongkong Post, will stop accepting packages transported by sea with immediate effect and stop taking airborne packages starting from April 27. Other postal items containing only documents, for example letters, will not be affected.


The retaliatory move means companies and individuals in Hong Kong will have to pay private couriers such as FedEx and DHL to deliver packages, further driving up costs for consumers on top of US levies.



Trump signed an executive order earlier this month raising tariffs on goods worth $800 or less sent from China, including Hong Kong, arguing it was being used by retailers to avoid import taxes and customs inspections.


Initially, the exemption was set to expire and those goods were set to face tariffs of 30% on May 2. But Trump’s latest executive order last week hiked the rates to 120% (or a “per postal item” cost of $100 starting May 2, which goes up to $200 on June 1).

https://edition.cnn.com/2025/04/15/business/hong-kong-suspends-postal-service-to-us-intl-hnk/index.html

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

China to now pay up to 245% tariffs on imports to US: Trump's latest move​

The Trump administration has announced a new tariff of up to 245% on Chinese imports, escalating trade tensions​

President Donald Trump's administration has announced a sweeping new tariff of up to 245% on Chinese imports, sharply escalating the trade conflict between the United States and China. The decision, detailed in a fact sheet released late Tuesday by the White House, comes in response to Beijing’s recent export restrictions and retaliatory tariffs.

China now faces up to a 245% tariff on imports to the United States as a result of its retaliatory actions,” the White House said, emphasizing the move as part of Trump’s ongoing “America First Trade Policy.”

https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/us-news/china-to-now-pay-up-to-245-tariffs-on-imports-to-us-trumps-latest-move-trade-war-101744789093597.html

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Trump is NOT a smart and savvy "businessman" or even decently educated on these matters. He started his business borrowing millions from his dad, and then failed quite a few of his ventures, there are rumors that he bought his college degree at UPenn. By simply listening to him talk, the kind of language he uses and his overall track record of moral and ethical misadventures, its not very hard to see that he is neither smart, nor well educated or well brought up. The upbringing of an individual typically shows in how they conduct themselves. Not a big fan of Obama but you could tell he was brought up well, even though he did not have his father around.

Anyhow my point is that this cheeto under the blonde doormat really does not understand what is going on. He is impulsive, shoots first, thinks later and his u-turns, reversals and rollbacks on the tariff decisions are evidence of that. I absolutely refuse to believe it is some sort of genius mental strategy to bear other countries down, or that there is some thought process to it as Trumpers claim. I am pretty sure its none of that. Its all whimsical. and it is messing up the whole world.

Did he actually ever have any support from big business? It's not really my field, but would there not come a point where it would make more sense for some of the biggest American businesses like Apple to relocate their headquarters somewhere else? I don't think manufacturing everything in America is feasible, especially when some of the raw ingredients are coming from places like Africa which the Chinese have a stranglehold on.

 

[Red-Indian]

China to now pay up to 245% tariffs on imports to US: Trump's latest move​

The Trump administration has announced a new tariff of up to 245% on Chinese imports, escalating trade tensions​

President Donald Trump's administration has announced a sweeping new tariff of up to 245% on Chinese imports, sharply escalating the trade conflict between the United States and China. The decision, detailed in a fact sheet released late Tuesday by the White House, comes in response to Beijing’s recent export restrictions and retaliatory tariffs.

China now faces up to a 245% tariff on imports to the United States as a result of its retaliatory actions,” the White House said, emphasizing the move as part of Trump’s ongoing “America First Trade Policy.”

https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/us-news/china-to-now-pay-up-to-245-tariffs-on-imports-to-us-trumps-latest-move-trade-war-101744789093597.html

Haven't seen this anywhere else. Is it real news or is somebody playing a joke? At this point it's irrelevant anyway. Trump's reverted electronics and cars to base tariffs. The rest like toys etc. are irrelevant at 100% or 145% or 245%.

I was reading this morning that 'unnamed' Chinese officials are indicating that they would be willing to come to the the negotiating table in exchange for concessions on issues like Taiwan. They're obviously betting they can bear the pain to a deeper and longer extent than the States and holding firm for now. Would be a real climbdown for Trump if he agreed to these conditions for talks.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Haven't seen this anywhere else. Is it real news or is somebody playing a joke? At this point it's irrelevant anyway. Trump's reverted electronics and cars to base tariffs. The rest like toys etc. are irrelevant at 100% or 145% or 245%.

I was reading this morning that 'unnamed' Chinese officials are indicating that they would be willing to come to the the negotiating table in exchange for concessions on issues like Taiwan. They're obviously betting they can bear the pain to a deeper and longer extent than the States and holding firm for now. Would be a real climbdown for Trump if he agreed to these conditions for talks.

I don't post fake news.

 

[Devadwal]

BREAKING: U.S. announces 245% tariff on China

But bhaijaan USA is bending according to delusional posters.

 

[Devadwal]

Indian stocks have already bounced back from earlier tariff-related losses, and many investors now see India as a safer bet compared to China, especially as global companies look to diversify supply chains away from China.

 

[Devadwal]

China was saying it was 'not afraid to fight' trade war with US

Now China issues record 85000 Visas to Indians. "Welcome more Indian friends to visit China" - CHINA is saying

 

[Devadwal]

USA latest tariff on China could highly benefit India’s markets by boosting exports like textiles and pharma etc

 

[Devadwal]

Has Trump gone on sleepy Joe mode, no more tariffs yet after China 125 % jibe?

I am sure in a few days, the Trump administration will have to release a list of the short "Tariffs Only" items. LOL .. WHAT A JOKE!

China now faces up to 245% tariffs. Enjoy

 

[Red-Indian]

I don't post fake news.

I think you basically misunderstood (as did a bunch of news media). There's no new tariffs announced and Trump did not escalate again (though I don't blame you for assuming he did)

It's just that there are some legacy pre-2025 tariffs put in place by the Biden administration which remain and in a couple of odd cases like syringes (100% pre-2025 rate + 20% fentanyl levy + 125% reciprocal tariff), it adds up to 245%. There's a couple of other weird items like those which had legacy tariffs. It's all very complicated and a lot of lawyers & CPA firms are going to make serious money out of deciphering all this.

Trump only mentioned that in some cases, it does go up to 245% which is true but stated in his typical bombastic manner.

 

[Stewie]

China now faces up to 245% tariffs. Enjoy

It will be reversed like everything else in a few days. The buffoonery will continue, no doubt

 

[rpant_gabba]

 

[Stewie]

View attachment 153382

This Boebert and Taylor Greene are angry and mean all the time. I know the alt right likes the **itch factor dialed up to 100 but still. LOL!

 

[Champ_Pal]

Buffoonery has no limit. Both Trump and Xi are 2 of a kind.

I don’t mind these volatile markets. More time to buy stocks at cheaper prices. All you need is cash to take advantage of the situation. Millionaires are made when there is blood in the market.

 

[Stewie]

Buffoonery has no limit. Both Trump and Xi are 2 of a kind.

I don’t mind these volatile markets. More time to buy stocks at cheaper prices. All you need is cash to take advantage of the situation. Millionaires are made when there is blood in the market.

This is indeed how most elite makes their money, through unethical opportunism.

 

[rpant_gabba]

Buffoonery has no limit. Both Trump and Xi are 2 of a kind.

Not sure the comparison holds. xi knows what he has and his limits. not sure the orange turd knows his what day it is.

I don’t mind these volatile markets. More time to buy stocks at cheaper prices. All you need is cash to take advantage of the situation. Millionaires are made when there is blood in the market.

Weird. her I thought Trump was elected becos he was going to end the war in Ukraine in Day 1, lower all prices in day 2 etc etc.

All you needs is cash: Sure America public was flush with cash, pissed of about cost living and decided to elct the organe clown.

If you are going to make this easy, it is no longer fun.

 

[Champ_Pal]

Not sure the comparison holds. xi knows what he has and his limits. not sure the orange turd knows his what day it is.

Weird. her I thought Trump was elected becos he was going to end the war in Ukraine in Day 1, lower all prices in day 2 etc etc.

All you needs is cash: Sure America public was flush with cash, pissed of about cost living and decided to elct the organe clown.

If you are going to make this easy, it is no longer fun.

I speak for people who can afford cash to buy great stocks at dirt cheap prices. Markets will recover eventually. If someone is broke and has no money to buy stocks, they have nothing to worry about this tariff war. The only fear for them is the rising inflation and job losses that could come in the future.

Regarding Xi, he has full power and control over China. He has to posture and put a brave face even if he is soiling his pants down below. Any signs of weakness in the leadership and people will rebel against the CCP. Chinese people sacrifice their freedoms for prosperity. When the Prosperity takes a hit due to job losses, it will not be easy for CCP to handle the growing discomfort among Chinese people. No Freedom + No Prosperity = Disaster for CCP.

Ultimately, both China and US will suffer. Not the Politicians. The general population. I am hoping both US and China sit down, talk and come to a conclusion where everyone wins and loses some.

 

[Stewie]

I speak for people who can afford cash to buy great stocks at dirt cheap prices. Markets will recover eventually. If someone is broke and has no money to buy stocks, they have nothing to worry about this tariff war. The only fear for them is the rising inflation and job losses that could come in the future.

Regarding Xi, he has full power and control over China. He has to posture and put a brave face even if he is soiling his pants down below. Any signs of weakness in the leadership and people will rebel against the CCP. Chinese people sacrifice their freedoms for prosperity. When the Prosperity takes a hit due to job losses, it will not be easy for CCP to handle the growing discomfort among Chinese people. No Freedom + No Prosperity = Disaster for CCP.

Ultimately, both China and US will suffer. Not the Politicians. The general population. I am hoping both US and China sit down, talk and come to a conclusion where everyone wins and loses some.

I am just hoping CUBW abandons this whole idiotic thing and lets things go back to normal before he started the whole thing.

 

[Red-Indian]

I speak for people who can afford cash to buy great stocks at dirt cheap prices. Markets will recover eventually. If someone is broke and has no money to buy stocks, they have nothing to worry about this tariff war. The only fear for them is the rising inflation and job losses that could come in the future.

Regarding Xi, he has full power and control over China. He has to posture and put a brave face even if he is soiling his pants down below. Any signs of weakness in the leadership and people will rebel against the CCP. Chinese people sacrifice their freedoms for prosperity. When the Prosperity takes a hit due to job losses, it will not be easy for CCP to handle the growing discomfort among Chinese people. No Freedom + No Prosperity = Disaster for CCP.

Ultimately, both China and US will suffer. Not the Politicians. The general population. I am hoping both US and China sit down, talk and come to a conclusion where everyone wins and loses some.

I think that's where Trump and perhaps even folks like you are underestimating China. The Chinese communist party has such total control over people's lives, media and even social media that for a considerable period of time (I'm not sure how long but it's certainly longer than a year or two), they can handle dissent from stuff like factory shutdowns etc. Yes if it is longer that that, it'll get harder. They do have options though. They can do a massive stimulus to prod domestic consumption. They can shrink some of their overseas investment projects and pump money in domestically etc.

It would be great for China and the US to come to the negotiating table. China buys more from the States and removes some subsidies...US drops tariffs but it doesn't look promising at this time. We're still in the posturing phase. It may take actual pain for discussions to open.

 

[rpant_gabba]

I speak for people who can afford cash to buy great stocks at dirt cheap prices. Markets will recover eventually. If someone is broke and has no money to buy stocks, they have nothing to worry about this tariff war. The only fear for them is the rising inflation and job losses that could come in the future.

High cost of living and no income? No big deal.

Regarding Xi, he has full power and control over China. He has to posture and put a brave face even if he is soiling his pants down below. Any signs of weakness in the leadership and people will rebel against the CCP. Chinese people sacrifice their freedoms for prosperity. When the Prosperity takes a hit due to job losses, it will not be easy for CCP to handle the growing discomfort among Chinese people. No Freedom + No Prosperity = Disaster for CCP.

This is an irrelevant non-sequitur

Ultimately, both China and US will suffer. Not the Politicians. The general population. I am hoping both US and China sit down, talk and come to a conclusion where everyone wins and loses some.

Trump is just the guy to make that happen.

Sorry bro, this is just too easy. May be you can get some more material from other Trumpy's. Notice, I didn't say better material.

 

[rpant_gabba]

I am just hoping CUBW abandons this whole idiotic thing and lets things go back to normal before he started the whole thing.

cubw?

 

[rpant_gabba]

 

[Champ_Pal]

I think that's where Trump and perhaps even folks like you are underestimating China. The Chinese communist party has such total control over people's lives, media and even social media that for a considerable period of time (I'm not sure how long but it's certainly longer than a year or two), they can handle dissent from stuff like factory shutdowns etc. Yes if it is longer that that, it'll get harder. They do have options though. They can do a massive stimulus to prod domestic consumption. They can shrink some of their overseas investment projects and pump money in domestically etc.

It would be great for China and the US to come to the negotiating table. China buys more from the States and removes some subsidies...US drops tariffs but it doesn't look promising at this time. We're still in the posturing phase. It may take actual pain for discussions to open.

100% agree. CCP has full control over China. They can print money, they can fake account books, they can purposefully devalue their currency... Basically they can do anything to win a war. No checks and balances on them and no one to challenge what they do in their own country. They can play the long game if needed. Not to forget, they crush any sort of dissent or opposition and they will use extreme force to achieve that. No hesitation there.

Trump needs to get a decision in his favor quickly. The longer this drags, the higher the chances that Republicans will get decimated in the midterm polls. This is where Trump is at a disadvantage and China knows this very well. If this whole sheetshow causes any sort of recession, Trump will have a lot to lose. Republican party in general will not have a chance to win the next 2 Presidential elections.

 

[HalBass9]

Trump already lost the trade war, and he’s has already tanked the midterms too. Just look at the town halls in red states, even his own base is starting to question the mess. The trade war ended with America taking the hit, not China. Call it what you want, but the scoreboard says Trump lost.

There’s zero chance China walks away looking defeated, they didn’t start this mess. Trump did. And whether he admits it or not, the loss is his to own. The Chinese will make sure the blame sticks to MAGA, not Democrats, not Republicans, just him.

 

[rpant_gabba]

100% agree. CCP has full control over China. They can print money, they can fake account books, they can purposefully devalue their currency... Basically they can do anything to win a war. No checks and balances on them and no one to challenge what they do in their own country. They can play the long game if needed. Not to forget, they crush any sort of dissent or opposition and they will use extreme force to achieve that. No hesitation there.

Trump needs to get a decision in his favor quickly. The longer this drags, the higher the chances that Republicans will get decimated in the midterm polls. This is where Trump is at a disadvantage and China knows this very well. If this whole sheetshow causes any sort of recession, Trump will have a lot to lose. Republican party in general will not have a chance to win the next 2 Presidential elections.

But he wokism will die! only two genders!

who cares about minor stuff like economy, health care, environment etc etc.

the libs have been owned. America has been saved!

 

[rpant_gabba]

Trump already lost the trade war, and he’s has already tanked the midterms too. Just look at the town halls in red states, even his own base is starting to question the mess. The trade war ended with America taking the hit, not China. Call it what you want, but the scoreboard says Trump lost.

There’s zero chance China walks away looking defeated, they didn’t start this mess. Trump did. And whether he admits it or not, the loss is his to own. The Chinese will make sure the blame sticks to MAGA, not Democrats, not Republicans, just him.

It must hard for Trump voters when the the clown in the mirror.

 

[Red-Indian]

100% agree. CCP has full control over China. They can print money, they can fake account books, they can purposefully devalue their currency... Basically they can do anything to win a war. No checks and balances on them and no one to challenge what they do in their own country. They can play the long game if needed. Not to forget, they crush any sort of dissent or opposition and they will use extreme force to achieve that. No hesitation there.

Trump needs to get a decision in his favor quickly. The longer this drags, the higher the chances that Republicans will get decimated in the midterm polls. This is where Trump is at a disadvantage and China knows this very well. If this whole sheetshow causes any sort of recession, Trump will have a lot to lose. Republican party in general will not have a chance to win the next 2 Presidential elections.

There were a dozen ways Trump could've played this if his final objective indeed was to weaken China (as @deltexas and a few others seem to believe it is). For example, a globally co-ordinated targeted tariff increase would have hit them really hard - especially on intermediate goods or some smart well-planned investment incentives in the US.

I can't think of a worse way than the one he's chosen. It's probably the only way the US with it's current strengths and long-standing alliances could lose a trade war with China.

 

[Stewie]

cubw?

Cheeto Under Blonde Wig

 

[Stewie]

100% agree. CCP has full control over China. They can print money, they can fake account books, they can purposefully devalue their currency... Basically they can do anything to win a war. No checks and balances on them and no one to challenge what they do in their own country. They can play the long game if needed. Not to forget, they crush any sort of dissent or opposition and they will use extreme force to achieve that. No hesitation there.

Trump needs to get a decision in his favor quickly. The longer this drags, the higher the chances that Republicans will get decimated in the midterm polls. This is where Trump is at a disadvantage and China knows this very well. If this whole sheetshow causes any sort of recession, Trump will have a lot to lose. Republican party in general will not have a chance to win the next 2 Presidential elections.

First thing first: if CCP is such an evil, maybe the world should boycott them completely (and should have boycotted them all this time) and not given them all the manufacturing jobs that has created an employment vacuum in their own countries. Why not treat them like Iran and NK?

Even India deals with China, I'm sure most of India owns mobiles made in China. Most of the parts and tools used in all industry in India and rest of the world is also made in China.

This post is a fine example of idiotic logic to "WHY" someone should win a war against someone here. Slow clap back!

 

[rpant_gabba]

There were a dozen ways Trump could've played this if his final objective indeed was to weaken China (as @deltexas and a few others seem to believe it is). For example, a globally co-ordinated targeted tariff increase would have hit them really hard - especially on intermediate goods or some smart well-planned investment incentives in the US.

I can't think of a worse way than the one he's chosen. It's probably the only way the US with it's current strengths and long-standing alliances could lose a trade war with China.

The conservatives have this habit voting for their messiah.

e.g. Clinton lied about blow jobs! Integrity in WH matters -> elect Shrub -> lies about WMD and starts a disastrous war and ruins American credibility! Ruins the economy.

but Obama was ineffective becos he didn't fix it all.

The f'ups from CUBW's first term are still reverberating, but we will vote him!

becos I'm a liberal and I'm against Woke!

Conclusion: American conservatives are s$%t for brains f'wits

 

[Stewie]

There were a dozen ways Trump could've played this if his final objective indeed was to weaken China (as @deltexas and a few others seem to believe it is). For example, a globally co-ordinated targeted tariff increase would have hit them really hard - especially on intermediate goods or some smart well-planned investment incentives in the US.

I can't think of a worse way than the one he's chosen. It's probably the only way the US with it's current strengths and long-standing alliances could lose a trade war with China.

Once again, are you trying to use logic and common-sense to explain how it all went down and what was CUBW thinking?
Seriously?

Bro, you will get a brain aneurysm, overheat all the cells and your head will explode, get a stroke and still that wont be taxing enough to logically explain this **it storm. That's just the sorry truth!

The best I can do is that it makes him look cool in front of his voters. "I stood up to "Gyna" like no one in the history of mankind every stood up before"

You know what I mean?

 

[Champ_Pal]

But he wokism will die! only two genders!

who cares about minor stuff like economy, health care, environment etc etc.

the libs have been owned. America has been saved!

You can say whatever you want. I voted Red for a reason this elections. No one thought Trump would drag this tariff war the way he is doing.
I can agree and disagree on things that Trump is doing. Regarding the tariff policy, I fully disagree with him. Regarding tightening the southern and northern border and wokeism, I full agree with him. My support is issue based.

I will call out the clownery of Trump regarding the handling of the economic war with China. I believe there is a better way to handle this.

 

[Red-Indian]

The conservatives have this habit voting for their messiah.

e.g. Clinton lied about blow jobs! Integrity in WH matters -> elect Shrub -> lies about WMD and starts a disastrous war and ruins American credibility! Ruins the economy.

but Obama was ineffective becos he didn't fix it all.

The f'ups from CUBW's first term are still reverberating, but we will vote him!

becos I'm a liberal and I'm against Woke!

Conclusion: American conservatives are s$%t for brains f'wits

Obama was as much as an absurd Messiah for us libs as Trump is for the conservatives. I was living in the States at the time (though I couldn't vote) and remember being caught up in the mania of it all. In retrospect, what was it about? He was a first time senator who didn't even serve half a team but could speak really well. Didn't achieve much and in fact ended up 'surging' Bush's stupid wars.

Trump in his first term was irritating but mostly pointless and pretty typical of most Presidents in the last 20 years. Most of his changes were low impact when looked at from a larger perspective - a few miles of wall, a couple of Supreme court justices etc. The second term has been disastrous from the get go. As bad as Bush's Iraq invasion in terms of long term adverse impact on the States and the world in general.

 

[Stewie]

You can say whatever you want. I voted Red for a reason this elections. No one thought Trump would drag this tariff war the way he is doing.
I can agree and disagree on things that Trump is doing. Regarding the tariff policy, I fully disagree with him. Regarding tightening the southern and northern border and wokeism, I full agree with him. My support is issue based.

I will call out the clownery of Trump regarding the handling of the economic war with China. I believe there is a better way to handle this.

You did not vote Red, you voted CUBW.

When we have a proper conservative in place, I will probably vote Red as well.

 

[rpant_gabba]

You can say whatever you want.

Thanks.

I voted Red for a reason this elections. No one thought Trump would drag this tariff war the way he is doing.

you mean you didn't he would do exactly what he said he was going to do. Interesting.

What made you think he was a person who takes measured thoughtful action and policies. Can you provide some examples?

Based on your other posts, I know you are against blind faith.

I can agree and disagree on things that Trump is doing. Regarding the tariff policy, I fully disagree with him. Regarding tightening the southern and northern border and wokeism, I full agree with him. My support is issue based.

who cares if the country burns down.

I will call out the clownery of Trump regarding the handling of the economic war with China. I believe there is a better way to handle this.

Makes you as much of a clown as trump for believing it was going to be different.

 

[Stewie]

Obama was as much as an absurd Messiah for us libs as Trump is for the conservatives. I was living in the States at the time (though I couldn't vote) and remember being caught up in the mania of it all. In retrospect, what was it about? He was a first time senator who didn't even serve half a team but could speak really well. Didn't achieve much and in fact ended up 'surging' Bush's stupid wars.

Trump in his first term was irritating but mostly pointless and pretty typical of most Presidents in the last 20 years. Most of his changes were low impact when looked at from a larger perspective - a few miles of wall, a couple of Supreme court justices etc. The second term has been disastrous from the get go. As bad as Bush's Iraq invasion in terms of long term adverse impact on the States and the world in general.

I laugh every time someone tries to justify their support for the right or the left in the US or the difference "their guy" is making.

In the grander scheme of things there is very very little to distinguish between the two sides of the coin. Just look at the legislation that are passed and you will get it.

But I think we can all agree the current squatter of the WH is just a buffoon and out of the norm and will only do worse than the previous presidents.

 

[Devadwal]

@Devadwal

 

[rpant_gabba]

Obama was as much as an absurd Messiah for us libs as Trump is for the conservatives. I was living in the States at the time (though I couldn't vote) and remember being caught up in the mania of it all. In retrospect, what was it about? He was a first time senator who didn't even serve half a team but could speak really well. Didn't achieve much and in fact ended up 'surging' Bush's stupid wars.

Yet, the country was left was left in better state than was inherited in spite of two quagmire of wars and economy which was for all practical purposes cratered, with a republican controlled congress.

I think you are playing not exactly a winning card with this equal equal non-sense. you are being helped by your past posts on India-Pak deal

Trump in his first term was irritating but mostly pointless and pretty typical of most Presidents in the last 20 years. Most of his changes were low impact when looked at from a larger perspective - a few miles of wall, a couple of Supreme court justices etc. The second term has been disastrous from the get go. As bad as Bush's Iraq invasion in terms of long term adverse impact on the States and the world in general.

Ah you are longing for the god old days of Trump 1st term

 

[Champ_Pal]

There were a dozen ways Trump could've played this if his final objective indeed was to weaken China (as @deltexas and a few others seem to believe it is). For example, a globally co-ordinated targeted tariff increase would have hit them really hard - especially on intermediate goods or some smart well-planned investment incentives in the US.

I can't think of a worse way than the one he's chosen. It's probably the only way the US with it's current strengths and long-standing alliances could lose a trade war with China.

This is why it is foolish to implement tariffs the way Trump is doing. He

Thanks.

you mean you didn't he would do exactly what he said he was going to do. Interesting.

He never mentioned he would put ridiculous 124% tariffs on China. At least from what I heard from him. May be I missed the memo.

What made you think he was a person who takes measured thoughtful action and policies. Can you provide some examples?

I am not an economist clearly. But I very well know there is a better of handling the trade imbalance between US and China. Hence my criticism of the over the top tariff buffoonery.

Based on your other posts, I know you are against blind faith.

Yes I am. I am always willing to change my opinion based on evidence.

who cares if the country burns down.

I do. What I saw during Floyd riots and how America burned and how lefties supported all of that mayhem, I can never forget.

Makes you as much of a clown as trump for believing it was going to be different.

Feelings are same for me too in regards to you. From one extreme to the other. No thanks to far left Antifa, BLM and Far right MAGA Trumpers.

As I said, I am willing to change my opinions. Will you? Based on your posts, I doubt it.

 

[Ball Blazer]

California sues the Trump administration, escalating battle with the president over tariffs​

Gov. Gavin Newsom of California is escalating his war against President Donald Trump's tariffs.

On Wednesday, the governor said his state would sue to immediately block the tariffs, with the high-profile Democrat describing the levies as "unlawful and unprecedented."

The legal action is a dramatic escalation in the relationship between the two leaders, this time centered on trade policy.

Newsom and California state Attorney General Rob Bonta are set to file the suit in San Francisco federal court, which would represent the first challenge from a state against the president's tariff plan.

"President Trump's unlawful tariffs are wreaking chaos on California families, businesses, and our economy — driving up prices and threatening jobs," the governor said in a statement. "We're standing up for American families who can't afford to let the chaos continue."

The two Democrats argue that Trump's tariffs will have an immense impact on the California economy, with over 60,000 small business exporters affected by the president's plan. The Californians point to important materials like steel and aluminum that are needed to help rebuild after a devastating series of fires in the Los Angeles area in January — along with the affects of "reciprocal" tariffs on farmers in the state's key agricultural regions.

Bonta in a statement argued that Trump's back-and-forth on tariff policy goes beyond his presidential power.

"The President's chaotic and haphazard implementation of tariffs is not only deeply troubling, it's illegal," he said.

On April 2, which Trump dubbed as "Liberation Day," he announced that he was implementing reciprocal tariffs on select countries, while imposing a 10% baseline tariff on most countries.

Some countries, like China, pushed back against the administration and were hit with higher tariffs.

Trump reversed himself days later and issued a 90-day pause on the reciprocal tariffs for most countries, but the administration on Wednesday said that China now faces a tariff rate of "up to 245%."

For now, the administration issued a pause on "reciprocal" tariffs for computers and laptops, which could have significantly raised the price of electronics for US consumers. However, Trump is still mulling tariffs on semiconductors from China.

China has already imposed a 125% tariff on US goods.

Newsom, a potential Democratic presidential candidate in 2028, has also made other key economic moves since Trump returned to the White House.

The governor this week kicked off a tourism campaign to lure Canadians — many of whom have been spooked by Trump's trade tussles with their country — back to California for excursions.

And earlier in April, Newsom called on world leaders to make exceptions for California goods amid Trump's trade policy implementation.

"Donald Trump's tariffs do not represent all Americans, particularly those I represent here in the fifth largest economy in the world, the state of California," Newsom said at the time. "California is a stable trading partner and we hope you remember that as you consider California-made products."

Source: Business Insider

 

[Champ_Pal]

 

[sweep_shot]

China Refuses to Negotiate with Trump Over Tariffs​

 

[HalBass9]

This is why it is foolish to implement tariffs the way Trump is doing. He

He never mentioned he would put ridiculous 124% tariffs on China. At least from what I heard from him. May be I missed the memo.

I am not an economist clearly. But I very well know there is a better of handling the trade imbalance between US and China. Hence my criticism of the over the top tariff buffoonery.

Yes I am. I am always willing to change my opinion based on evidence.

I do. What I saw during Floyd riots and how America burned and how lefties supported all of that mayhem, I can never forget.

Feelings are same for me too in regards to you. From one extreme to the other. No thanks to far left Antifa, BLM and Far right MAGA Trumpers.

As I said, I am willing to change my opinions. Will you? Based on your posts, I doubt it.

Wait, you missed the memo? When exactly did he ever lay out a real economic plan? All we got was “tariffs” and “I’ll make America great again” on loop like a malfunctioning jukebox.

And let’s not pretend, it’s not that Kamala didn’t have an economic plan, it’s that 99% of his supporters couldn’t hear it over the sound of a blonde guy yelling catchy one liners like he was selling miracle tonic at a circus.

 

[Champ_Pal]

Wait, you missed the memo? When exactly did he ever lay out a real economic plan? All we got was “tariffs” and “I’ll make America great again” on loop like a malfunctioning jukebox.

And let’s not pretend, it’s not that Kamala didn’t have an economic plan, it’s that 99% of his supporters couldn’t hear it over the sound of a blonde guy yelling catchy one liners like he was selling miracle tonic at a circus.

I knew he was going to put tariffs. Not the 124% and 250% nonsense. I would have never voted for republicans if I knew that was the case. I was under the impression of a flat 10-20% tariff and negotiations with China and EU. Not the drastic ridiculous clown show that is currently going on.

 

[BouncerGuy]

Shein and Temu warn tariffs will raise prices in US

Chinese online retail giants Shein and Temu have warned US customers that goods will get pricier from next week, after President Donald Trump imposed hefty tariffs on goods from China.

In almost identical statements, the rival companies said they have seen operating expenses rise "due to recent changes in global trade rules and tariffs", adding they will make "price adjustments" from 25 April.

The shopping sites have gained tens of millions of customers in the US, attracted by their ultra-low prices.

Their popularity has put pressure on Amazon, prompting it to launch a new platform called Haul last November, featuring items for under $20 (£15.10).

Since returning to the White House in January, Trump has imposed taxes of up to 145% on imports from China. His administration said this week that when the new tariffs are added on to existing ones the levies on some Chinese goods could reach 245%.

Trump has also ended a duty-free exemption for goods worth less than $800, which helped Shein and Temu make rapid inroads to the US market.

US lawmakers on both sides had raised concerns about how these companies had "exploited" the provision.

An estimated 1.4 billion packages entered the US under this arrangement last year, up from 140 million in 2013, according to US customs authorities.

Since Trump started imposing the tariffs, Shein and Temu have seen the ranking of their apps fall sharply.

Temu is now the 75th most downloaded free app on the US Apple Store, after having consistently taken one of the top five spots in the last two years. Shein is in 58th place, down from number 15 last month.

But other Chinese retail apps continue to be ranked highly in the US, including DHgate in second place and Alibaba's Taobao at number seven.

Shein and Temu have also slashed their advertising spending in the US.

Temu has "turned off all their Google Shopping ads in the US" as of 9 April, Mike Ryan, head of e-commerce insights at online advertising agency Smarter Ecommerce, said on LinkedIn.

Temu's average daily US advertising spend on social media platforms include Facebook, Instagram and YouTube fell by 31% in the two weeks leading to 13 April, compared with the past month.

Shein's average daily US ad spend fell by 19% over the same period, according to data from market intelligence firm Sensor Tower.

In their statements, Temu and Shein encouraged customers to shop before higher prices kick in.

"We stand ready to make sure your orders arrive smoothly during this time.

"We're doing everything we can to keep prices low and minimize the impact on you. Our team is working hard to improve your shopping experience," the statements said.

Temu and Shein did not immediately respond to requests from the BBC for further comment.

BBC

 

[Sachin fan]

I knew he was going to put tariffs. Not the 124% and 250% nonsense. I would have never voted for republicans if I knew that was the case. I was under the impression of a flat 10-20% tariff and negotiations with China and EU. Not the drastic ridiculous clown show that is currently going on.

Every single economist, scientist, doctors, noble prize winners, intellectuals warned against him and the damage he can cause. At this point, you are responsible for falling for the lies of a conman who's entire career is just destruction, bankruptcies and backstabbing of those who supported him.

Unfortunately, because of those who voted for him, this time he is going to cause the entire planet to suffer big time.

 

[rpant_gabba]

He never mentioned he would put ridiculous 124% tariffs on China. At least from what I heard from him. May be I missed the memo.

Yup, becos he has been a reasonable decision maker, who has long track record of success with his intellect and integrity, that it might be difficult to guess how he was going to handle things.

I am not an economist clearly.

Really? Shocker

But I very well know there is a better of handling the trade imbalance between US and China. Hence my criticism of the over the top tariff buffoonery.

Yes I am. I am always willing to change my opinion based on evidence.

I guess some of us are better equipped to assess what the consequences could be than others. It’s not like he did his to destroy American democracy in 2020 or botched the pandemic response

I do. What I saw during Floyd riots and how America burned and how lefties supported all of that mayhem, I can never forget.

Yup, police who enjoy the socialist setup, should be allowed to kill with impunity over illegal cigarettes and fake $20 bills.

It’s not like righties invade capitol over election results that they didn’t like

Feelings are same for me too in regards to you. From one extreme to the other. No thanks to far left Antifa, BLM and Far right MAGA Trumpers.

As I said, I am willing to change my opinions. Will you? Based on your posts, I doubt it.

I choose to have leader who doesn’t throw the existing legal system out the window becos he doesn’t like the result.

There was enough evidence about Trump.

 

[rpant_gabba]

@deltexas

Would love to hear you perspective on the band market situation

>>>>
Carrick Ryan :I'm not an economist. So last night, I asked someone who was to explain to me how the US Bond Market had just forced Trump to buckle. His initial reply was pretty ominous.
Here is the full explanation he gave me. It's his opinion, but I found it useful and got his permission to share it with you. He has a senior role with one of the major banks so has asked to remain anonymous.
Take from it what you will:
"The past 10-day saga begins with Trump’s goal to make America great again.
His dream appears to be a self-sufficient US—a hub of manufacturing, trade surpluses (exports > imports), low interest rates, and what he calls “American exceptionalism.”
Trump used extreme tariffs of 25% on Mexico and Canada due to their apparent refusal to police their borders, particularly around drug importation.
It was rumoured that Trump wanted to begin his “Liberation Day” on 1 April. However, optically, it didn’t suit his “serious style” since it fell on April Fools’ Day. Therefore, Liberation Day was set for 2 April, with his plans kicking in a week later, on the 9th.
In the lead-up, many guesses and economist estimates were offered about worst-case scenarios for global trade and commerce. Some saw a flat 25% tariff as the worst case. Instead, we got what could be described as a “ChatGPT-style” plan: How do we tax a trade deficit?—a 10% floor with a scaled tariff based on the counterpart nation’s trade deficit. This is not a reciprocal tariff.
He had pledged high tariffs during his election campaign and brought Peter Navarro and Stephen Miran into the White House—both of whom endorse hyper-protectionism—alongside Scott Bessent (former bond broker and hedge fund manager) as Treasury Secretary. Tariffs were set to go as high as 50%.
This extreme implementation shocked all markets. Global future economic growth rates were assumed to be dramatically lower due to higher costs, barriers to trade, and inflation—inevitable consequences of passing higher costs to consumers worldwide.
Forget the stock market—it’s a hoax. The real economy is driven by the cost of cash: interest rates.
Let’s take the RBA (Reserve Bank of Australia) as an example, though all central banks generally have a dual mandate: to maintain low inflation and support positive economic growth. Their main control lever is the official overnight cash rate.
Banks and firms must stay liquid. If a bank has excess deposits, it can lend them to the RBA or to another bank at the overnight cash rate.
Conversely, if it needs to borrow overnight cash, it can pledge collateral (such as government bonds) and borrow at that rate. Banks must also hold a proportion of High-Quality Liquid Assets (HQLA) to ensure they can pledge collateral if needed. This is traditionally how central banks influence interest rates.
Over the past week, fears of global growth slowing to zero—or turning negative—due to tariffs (supply chain issues, extreme trade friction, geopolitical barriers between the world’s two biggest economies) have led to expectations that central banks will cut short-term rates to make borrowing cheaper for households, businesses, and governments. However, inflation is also expected to rise as a result.
This means: a short-term shock to growth, and long-term higher rates. That doesn’t fit anyone’s dual mandate.
The US bond market is the closest thing to God—assumed to be un-defaultable, safe debt.
But the US government runs a budget deficit. It spends more than it earns from taxes. Just this week, the US is borrowing around $100 billion. The 2025 budget deficit is expected to be $1.9 trillion, which must be funded through bond issuance. This is totally unsustainable.
The uncertainty in government policy has caused investors to demand higher interest rates. Why would I lend the US money for 10 years at 4% when in a year that could be 5%?
Think of HFT (high-frequency trading) in stocks. Now take that to the extreme in bonds. Traders and hedge funds arbitrage the difference between bond prices and derivatives like futures (meant to mimic the underlying asset). At futures expiry, the price of the future and the bond should match. Any difference before that is called the “basis,” and trading it is a “basis trade.” When the basis goes to zero at expiry, you profit.
But currently, confidence in US government policy is nonexistent. This has created a “sell everything” mentality, leading to massive dislocations in normally correlated asset markets. Even “safe” trades become volatile. No one wants to be the last out, and so the exits get crowded.
Currency markets amplify this. For example, Japanese investors who borrow at 1% in Japan to earn 4% in US bonds suddenly see the USD/JPY rate move 5% against them—wiping out gains. Why hold the trade?
Japan has been the largest holder of US bonds for a decade. China—now in the largest trade war in history with the US—is the second largest.
To summarise:
• The US is borrowing unsustainably, issuing bonds every month.
• It is imposing extreme tariffs on both friendly and non-friendly countries.
• (In my view) There is total mistrust in US government policy—protectionism in a global world.
• Stock markets are crashing. Over-leveraged bond trades are blowing up. Safe assets are being sold off.
• China may sell its US bond holdings in retaliation.
Who will continue to lend money to the US every week? Even the suggestion that some may not causes others to hesitate. This raises the cost of borrowing—interest rates go up.
Yesterday, bond markets were broken.
Sellers were dumping bonds at any price. People were asking if the US had ever cancelled a bond auction. The so-called safest asset in the world was no longer safe.
At a public event, CEA Chairman Steve Miran stated that to stop tariffs, one option was for other countries to “simply write cheques to the US Treasury”—effectively suggesting the US would renegotiate debt on its own terms, even with allies.
Simply put: The world is losing trust in the US as a safe place to lend money.
Bessent, the Treasury Secretary, is a former bond guy. He, like others, knows that lending and borrowing depends entirely on trust. If that trust is gone, lending dries up.
Trump, in my eyes, was forced to halt the tariffs to restore confidence in the US as a safe investment.
US interest payments on debt, in some months, are already higher than the tax revenues collected—at around 4.4% government rates. If confidence collapses and the US has to sell bonds at 6%, 7%, or higher, it becomes insolvent. It simply can’t afford to borrow.
Next, we’ll likely see:
• QE (central banks buying bonds, i.e., money creation—see: MMT)
• Zero interest rate policies
• Anything to lower short-term rates and pull long-term rates down
Trump’s policy, even in the short term, has broken the bond market—because everything hinges on the perception that borrowers will behave rationally."<<<

@deltexas anytime bro. Would love to hear your take what will happen if countries start dumping US bonds.

Keep your ears sharp @Champ_Pal , you are about to hear pearls of wisdom.

@Red-Indian get the popcorn ready. This will be entertaining

 

[rpant_gabba]

 

[Stewie]

View attachment 153425

I know this picture is AI generated but I would not be surprised to find thousands of very similar looking MAGA dude-groups spending their entire lunch hours discussing and defending tariffs.

"They took our jeeewwwbs!!"

 

[rpant_gabba]

The Most Dangerous Combination in Leadership? It’s not… | Richard J Mayne

The Most Dangerous Combination in Leadership? It’s not inexperience. It’s not even incompetence. It’s the collision of ignorance and arrogance. One says, “I don’t know.” The other adds, “And I don’t care to find out.” This isn’t just a leadership flaw—it’s a cultural toxin. Decisions are...

www.linkedin.com

@deltexas @Champ_Pal Was Trump lying about who is paying the Tariff or was he clueless?

 

[BouncerGuy]

Trump's tariffs leave China's neighbours with an impossible choice

When US President Donald Trump hit China with tariffs in his first term, Vietnamese entrepreneur Hao Le saw an opportunity.

His company is one of hundreds of businesses that have emerged to compete with Chinese exports that have increasingly been facing restrictions from the West.

Le's SHDC Electronics, which sits in the budding industrial hub of Hai Duong, sells $2m (£1.5m) worth of phone and computer accessories every month to the United States.

But that revenue could dry up if Trump imposes 46% tariffs on Vietnamese goods, a plan that is currently on hold until early July. That would be "catastrophic for our business," Le says.

And selling to Vietnamese consumers is not an option, he adds: "We cannot compete with Chinese products. This is not just our challenge. Many Vietnamese companies are struggling in their own home market."

Trump tariffs in 2016 sent a glut of cheap Chinese imports, originally intended for the US, into South East Asia, hurting many local manufacturers. But they also opened new doors for other businesses, often into global supply chains that wanted to cut their dependence on China.

But Trump 2.0 threaten to shut those doors, which it it sees as an unacceptable loophole. And that's a blow for fast-growing economies like Vietnam and Indonesia that are gunning to be key players in industries from chips to electric vehicles.

They also find themselves stuck between the world's two biggest economies - China, a powerful neighbour and their biggest trading partner, and the US, a key export market, which could be looking to strike a deal at Beijing's expense.

And so Xi Jinping's long-planned trip to Vietnam, Malaysia and Cambodia this week took on fresh urgency.

All three countries rolled out the the red carpet for him, but Trump saw it as more evidence of the them conspiring to "screw" the US.

The White House will use its upcoming negotiations with smaller nations to pressure them into limiting their dealings with Beijing, according to reports.

But that could be a fanciful ambition given the amount of money flowing between China and South East Asia.

In 2024, China earned a record $3.5tn from exports - 16% of those went to South East Asia, its biggest market. Beijing, in turn, has paid for railways in Vietnam, dams in Cambodia and ports in Malaysia as part of its "Belt and Road" infratructure programme that seeks to boost ties abroad.

"We can't choose, and we will never choose [between China and the US]," Malaysia's trade minister Tengku Zafrul Aziz told the BBC on Tuesday, ahead of Xi's visit.

"If the issue is about something that we feel is against our interest, then we will protect [ourselves]."

A wake-up call

In the days after Trump unveiled his sweeping tariffs, South East Asian governments scrambled into deal-making mode.

In what Trump described as a "very productive call" with Vietnamese leader To Lam, the latter offered to completely scrap tariffs on US goods.

The US market is crucial to Vietnam, an emerging electronics powerhouse where manufacturing giants like Samsung, Intel and Foxconn, the Taiwanese firm contracted to make iPhones, have set up shop.

Meanwhile, Thai officials are headed to Washington with a plan that includes higher US imports and investments. The US is their largest export market, so they are hoping to avoid the 36% levy on Thailand that Trump may reinstate.

"We will tell the US government that Thailand is not only an exporter but also an ally and economic partner that the US can rely on in the long term," Prime Minister Paetongtarn Shinawatra said.

The Association of Southeast Asian Nations (Asean) has ruled out retaliation against Trump's tariffs, instead choosing to emphasise their economic and political importance to the US.

"We understand the concerns of the US," Mr Zafrul told the BBC. "That's why we need to show that actually we, Asean, especially Malaysia, can be that bridge."

It's a role that South East Asia's export-driven economies have played well - they have benefitted from both Chinese and US trade and investment. But Trump's paused levies could derail that.

Take Malaysia, for instance. In recent years, chip manufacturers from the US and elsewhere have invested there, as Washington blocks the sale of advanced tech to China. Last year China imported $18bn worth of chips from Malaysia. These chips are used in Chinese-made electronics, such as iPhones, typically bound for the US.

Trump's proposed tariffs on Malaysia - 24% - could cut off the multi-billion dollar US market. But that's not all.

"If this continues, then companies will have to rethink their investment commitments," Mr Zafrul says. "This will have an impact not just on Malaysia's economy, but on the global economy."

Then there is Indonesia, which could face 32% tariffs, and is home to vast nickel reserves and has its sights set on the global electric vehicle supply chain.

Cambodia, a Chinese ally, faces the steepest levies: 49%. One of the poorest countries in the region, it has thrived as a trans-shipment hub for Chinese businesses seeking to skirt US tariffs. Chinese businesses currently own or operate 90% of the clothes factories, which mainly export to the US.

Trump may have hit pause on these tariffs but "the damage is done," says Doris Liew, an economist at Malaysia's Institute for Democracy and Economic Affairs.

"This serves as a wake-up call for the region, not only to reduce reliance on the US, but also to re-balance overdependence on any single trade and export partner."

China's loss and South East Asia's gain

In these uncertain times , Xi Jinping is trying to send a steadfast message: Let's join hands and resist "bullying" from the US.

That is no easy task because South East Asia also has trade tensions with Beijing.

In Indonesia, business owner Isma Savitri is worried that Trump's 145% tariffs on China means more competition from Chinese rivals who can no longer export to the US.

"Small businesses like us feel squeezed," says the owner of sleepwear brand Helopopy. "We are struggling to survive against an onslaught of ultra-cheap Chinese products."

One of Helopopy's popular pyjamas sells for $7.10 (119,000 Indonesian rupiah). Isma says she has seen similar designs from China going for around half that price.

"South East Asia, being close by, with open trade regimes and fast-growing markets, naturally became the dumping ground," says Nguyen Khac Giang, visiting fellow at the ISEAS Yusof-Ishak Institute in Singapore. "Politically, many countries are reluctant to confront Beijing, which adds another layer of vulnerability."

While consumers have welcomed competitively-priced Chinese products - from clothes to shoes to phones - thousands of local businesses have not been able to match such low prices.

More than 100 factories in Thailand have closed every month for the last two years, according to an estimate from a Thai think tank. During the same period in Indonesia, around 250,000 textile workers were laid off after some 60 garment manufacturers shut, local trade associations say - including Sritex, once the region's largest textile maker.

"When we see the news, there are lots of imported products flooding the domestic market, which messes up our own market," Mujiati, a worker who was laid off from Sritex in February after 30 years, tells the BBC.

"Maybe it just wasn't our luck," says the 50-year-old, who is still hunting for work. "Who can we complain to? There's no-one."

South East Asian governments responded with a wave of protectionism, as local businesses demanded to be shielded from the impact of Chinese imports.

Last year Indonesia considered 200% tariffs on a range of Chinese goods and blocked e-commerce site Temu, popular among Chinese merchants. Thailand tightened inspections of imports and imposed additional tax on goods worth less than 1,500 Thai baht ($45; £34).

This year Vietnam has twice imposed temporary anti-dumping duties on Chinese steel products. And after Trump's latest tariffs announcement, Vietnam is reportedly set to crack down on Chinese goods being trans-shipped via its territory to the US.

Allaying these fears would have been on Xi's agenda this week.

China is concerned that channelling its US-bound exports to the rest of the world would "end up really alienating and aggravating" its trading partners, David Rennie, the former Beijing bureau chief for the Economist newspaper, told BBC's Newshour.

"If a tidal wave of Chinese exports ends up swamping those markets and damaging employment and jobs … that's a massive diplomatic and geopolitical headache for the Chinese leadership."

China has not always had an easy relationship with this region. Barring Laos, Cambodia and a war-torn Myanmar, the others are wary of Beijing's ambitions. Territorial disputes in the South China have soured ties with the Philippines. This is also an issue with others such as Vietnam and Malaysia, but trade has been a balancing factor.

But that might change now, experts say.

"South East Asia had to think about whether they really wanted to offend China. Now this complicates things," says Chong Ja-Ian, associate professor at the National University of Singapore.

China's loss could be South East Asia's gain.

Hao Le, in Vietnam, says he has seen a surge in enquiries from American customers scouting for new electronics suppliers, outside of China: "In the past, US buyers would take months to switch suppliers. Today, such decisions are made within days."

Malaysia, with sprawling rubber plantations and the world's largest medical rubber glove maker, has nearly half the world's market for rubber gloves. But it is poised to grab a bigger share from its main competitor, China.

The region still faces a 10% baseline tariff, like most of the world. And that is bad news, says Oon Kim Hung, president of the Malaysian Rubber Glove Manufacturers Association.

But even if the paused tariffs kick in, he says, customers will find paying an additional 24% on Malaysian gloves vastly preferable to the 145% levy they will have to cough up for Chinese-made gloves.

"We're not exactly jumping with joy, but this may well benefit our manufacturers, as well as those in Thailand, Vietnam and Cambodia."

BBC

 

[Red-Indian]

@deltexas anytime bro. Would love to hear your take what will happen if countries start dumping US bonds.

Keep your ears sharp @Champ_Pal , you are about to hear pearls of wisdom.

@Red-Indian get the popcorn ready. This will be entertaining

I've been thinking hard about this and it's tough to envisage the impact of something like a coordinated large scale dumping of US bonds. By the way, it's the flavor of the month to envisage these doomsday scenarios and a bunch of economics bloggers have been talking about it and opinion pieces are being written.

The dollar and US government debt essentially underpins the global financial system. The total outstanding market for US federal debt is about $27 Trillion. There is no asset out there that even comes close. For context, the value of all the gold ever mined is approximately $7 Trillion.

By the way, this is not our first rodeo. We've come close to devaluation of US debt previously. It's become pretty frequent of late actually - every time the US House & Senate decide to deny funding to the US Government and there are federal shutdowns. Every time we've teetered close to the edge though, we've pulled back. Damn stupid way to live.

If there were really a devaluation of this asset, we could be looking at a global financial meltdown several times greater in impact than the 2008 Financial crisis. Probably something closer to the Great Depression in scale. US borrowing costs would go way up collapsing the economy, countries like Japan, China etc. would take hundreds billions in losses, a number of banks worldwide would collapse (including some unimaginable ones) and it would get worse from there. I can buy that Trump is an idiot but it would take a bunch of madmen/idiots to lead us there. I'm going to choose to believe we have enough sensible people around running things to prevent the worst.

 

[rpant_gabba]

I've been thinking hard about this and it's tough to envisage the impact of something like a coordinated large scale dumping of US bonds. By the way, it's the flavor of the month to envisage these doomsday scenarios and a bunch of economics bloggers have been talking about it and opinion pieces are being written.

The dollar and US government debt essentially underpins the global financial system. The total outstanding market for US federal debt is about $27 Trillion. There is no asset out there that even comes close. For context, the value of all the gold ever mined is approximately $7 Trillion.

By the way, this is not our first rodeo. We've come close to devaluation of US debt previously. It's become pretty frequent of late actually - every time the US House & Senate decide to deny funding to the US Government and there are federal shutdowns. Every time we've teetered close to the edge though, we've pulled back. Damn stupid way to live.

If there were really a devaluation of this asset, we could be looking at a global financial meltdown several times greater in impact than the 2008 Financial crisis. Probably something closer to the Great Depression in scale. US borrowing costs would go way up collapsing the economy, countries like Japan, China etc. would take hundreds billions in losses, a number of banks worldwide would collapse (including some unimaginable ones) and it would get worse from there. I can buy that Trump is an idiot but it would take a bunch of madmen/idiots to lead us there. I'm going to choose to believe we have enough sensible people around running things to prevent the worst.

At. this point, Trump has shown that he is brainless (just like his voters) chickenshit and has burnt the bridge with every ally of the US.

They (the former allies) have moved the pieces to put a real hurting on the US and first ones in line to get hurt will be the same idiots that complained about cost of living under Biden.

China holds enough T-bills to F Us up if push comes to shove and chinese public might be willing to put up with it means hurting US permanently, while Trump is voted in by people for whom wearing mask was a huge issue.

Interesting times ahead.

@deltexas come to the party bro. Looking to hearing your take here. Fromthe looks of it @Champ_Pal has thrown in the towel on Trump already.

 

[sweep_shot]

After 90 days, what will happen?

Will the orange turd continue to play with tariffs or will he do new shenanigans? I remember he abandoned border wall.

It seems like he gets bored very easily (like a child). He constantly needs new toys.

 

[Devadwal]

China invites PM Modi. China says it wants to import more Indian Goods. CHINA is desperately wants india support in this Trade war.

 

[sweep_shot]

Funny interaction. I thought this was a parody account but it was not.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1912500510436843677

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Funny interaction. I thought this was a parody account but it was not.

View attachment 153538

https://twitter.com/x/status/1912500510436843677

Lol at 'we can change that'. Imagine that American cow lover eating beef.

 

[BouncerGuy]

DHL suspends high value US deliveries over tariffs

DHL Express is suspending deliveries to the US worth more than $800 (£603) because of a "significant increase" in red tape at customs following the intruduction of Donald Trump's new tariff regime.

The delivery giant said it will temporarily stop shipments from companies in all countries to American consumers on Monday "until further notice".

It added that business-to-business shipments will still go ahead, "though they may also face delays".

Previously, packages worth up to $2,500 could enter the US with minimal paperwork but due to tighter customs checks that came into force alongside Trump's tariffs earlier this month, the threshold has been lowered.

DHL said that the change "has caused a surge in formal customs clearances, which we are handling around the clock".

It said that while it is working to "scale up and manage this increase, shipments woth over $800, regardless of origin, may experience multi-day delays".

The company said it will still deliver packages worth less than $800, which can be sent to the US with minimal checks.

But the White House is set to clamp down on deliveries under $800 - specifically those sent from China and Hong Kong - on 2 May when it closes a loophole allowing low-value packages to enter the US without incurring any duties.

The removal of the so-called "de minimis" rule will impact the likes of the fast-fashion firm Shein and Temu, the low-cost retail giant.

Shein and Temu have both warned that they will increase prices "due to recent changes in global trade rules and tariffs".

The Trump administration has claimed that "many shippers" in China "hide illicit substances and conceal the true contents of shipments sent to the US through deceptive shipping practices".

Under an excutive order, the White House said the measures were aimed at "addressing the synthetic opioid supply chain" which it said "play a significant role in the synthetic opioid crisis in the US".

Beijing has said that the opioid fentanyl is a "US problem" and China has the strictest drug policies in the world.

Last week, Hongkong Post said it was suspending packages sent to the US by sea and, from 27 April, would stop accepting parcels destined for America.

It said: "The US is unreasonable, bullying and imposing tariffs abusively."

BBC

 

[BouncerGuy]

US digging a hole for itself.

 

[deltexas]

At. this point, Trump has shown that he is brainless (just like his voters) chickenshit and has burnt the bridge with every ally of the US.

They (the former allies) have moved the pieces to put a real hurting on the US and first ones in line to get hurt will be the same idiots that complained about cost of living under Biden.

China holds enough T-bills to F Us up if push comes to shove and chinese public might be willing to put up with it means hurting US permanently, while Trump is voted in by people for whom wearing mask was a huge issue.

Interesting times ahead.

@deltexas come to the party bro. Looking to hearing your take here. Fromthe looks of it @Champ_Pal has thrown in the towel on Trump already.

Ok. So your basic understanding of the US economy is non existent. Just because you post these multiple non stop posts with rude language, doesnt make one cent of a difference. As I mentioned before, it has always been about China. China is a security threat to US plain and simple. Yes, it hurts the US too but it hurts China more. China has a been in deflation for a while, go look it up. US cant be in a situation where say there is a conflict with China - China can then hurt the US economy in an act of war by stopping all imports to US. US doesnt have a recourse. China is a rogue nation and the US needs to be prepared for that. China is a manufacturing based economy and it is already feeling the pinch. So, yes Trump going aggressive on China is totally fine.
China deflation :

https://www.reuters.com/world/china/chinas-consumer-prices-extend-declines-march-2025-04-10/

Regarding allies, guess what. Almost all the 70 countries that were tariffed want to negotiate with the US to finalize a new tariff structure incl the EU. They could have gone their own ways and worked with China but no, they wont as they know China is a rogue nation. And the SE countries are going against China now. See this link :

Trump's tariffs leave China's neighbours with an impossible choice

Ambitious economies like Vietnam and Indonesia are stuck between China and the US as the trade war escalates.

www.bbc.com

And guess what, China has now reached out to its arch rival India bcos of the US tariffs. So much for being a super power who doesnt need anyone LOL !

China says it's ready to open market to import more Indian goods, urges 'non-discriminatory' stance for its firms

China is seeking greater economic collaboration with India, inviting more Indian goods into its market. Ambassador Xu Feihong has urged India to provide a fair environment for Chinese businesses, addressing concerns over visa delays and perceived unfair treatment.

economictimes.indiatimes.com

And regarding the US bonds, your posts show you have zero idea on it. The US bonds are the most stable and preferred options for other governments. There is a reason China buys US debt with treasury bonds. If they dump the bonds, it will be a disaster for them. read this before making nonsensical posts . China can go near the Eurozone but doesnt want to.

Why China Buys U.S. Debt With Treasury Bonds

China and many other countries buy U.S. debt through the purchase of Treasury bonds. Here are the factors behind those purchases.

www.investopedia.com

End of the day , China is a banana republic with no safeguards in place whereas the US is a democracy with laws and regulations. The foundations of the US economy are strong and will outlast any Communist authoritative banana nations with inflated and exaggerated numbers. Look up the China apartment issue where 1/3rd of almost all Chinese apartments are vacant. China is no where near close to the purchasing power of the US consumer. They know that. So, instead of all the China this China that and US is losing baaaaadly biiiiiiiiiiiig time posts, time for a reality check I guess.

And regarding your US inflation concerns, am totally OK with it. The inflation is getting crazy and the market needs a correction , a return to the baseline. And if that entails a mild induced recession, so be it. Am all for it. Every uneducated school drop out Tom D and Harry cant claim a 8-4 job using inflation as an excuse. Need a drop in that which reduces the development prices for developers and investors which is what I want. And it will help commercial interest rates to come down as well which are 10-12% now ridiculous now and make projects non feasible. So yeah, I totally want a market correction with a dip.

 

[deltexas]

I've been thinking hard about this and it's tough to envisage the impact of something like a coordinated large scale dumping of US bonds. By the way, it's the flavor of the month to envisage these doomsday scenarios and a bunch of economics bloggers have been talking about it and opinion pieces are being written.

The dollar and US government debt essentially underpins the global financial system. The total outstanding market for US federal debt is about $27 Trillion. There is no asset out there that even comes close. For context, the value of all the gold ever mined is approximately $7 Trillion.

By the way, this is not our first rodeo. We've come close to devaluation of US debt previously. It's become pretty frequent of late actually - every time the US House & Senate decide to deny funding to the US Government and there are federal shutdowns. Every time we've teetered close to the edge though, we've pulled back. Damn stupid way to live.

If there were really a devaluation of this asset, we could be looking at a global financial meltdown several times greater in impact than the 2008 Financial crisis. Probably something closer to the Great Depression in scale. US borrowing costs would go way up collapsing the economy, countries like Japan, China etc. would take hundreds billions in losses, a number of banks worldwide would collapse (including some unimaginable ones) and it would get worse from there. I can buy that Trump is an idiot but it would take a bunch of madmen/idiots to lead us there. I'm going to choose to believe we have enough sensible people around running things to prevent the worst.

Nobody will dump the US bonds. It will be a financial disaster for them. As you said just the flavor of the month with absolutely no understanding of what it is . China this China that , China will destroy US is what the Pak posters here like but they have no concept of reality.

There is a reason why China buys US debt with bonds and doesnt want to let go. For a so called wannabe super power, that says something. They can go to Eurozone but wont.

The reality is that Trump is betting that US is a stronger financial power than China and he is right. Yes, approach to it can be more fine tuned but the basic premise stays the same. The US economy is fundamentally much stronger and secure than the Chinese economy and will continue for a long long time just because of the rules, laws regulations etc which China doesnt adhere to as its a banana shell republic.

 

[deltexas]

China invites PM Modi. China says it wants to import more Indian Goods. CHINA is desperately wants india support in this Trade war.

I thought China was a super power that didnt need anyone LOL and that Ind was its arch enemy. Just shows the reality of China.

And as usual Ind needs to be wary of the rougue China. They gave Ind proof during the Hindi Cheeni bhai bhai Nehru rule. And for the Pak posters here, Modi was untouchable for China LOL ! Pak posters support China here but they dont realize Pak will be in a debt trap with China

 

[deltexas]

US digging a hole for itself.

Yeah made in China but still played by the US. That says everything.

 

[deltexas]

Ok. So your basic understanding of the US economy is non existent. Just because you post these multiple non stop posts with rude language, doesnt make one cent of a difference. As I mentioned before, it has always been about China. China is a security threat to US plain and simple. Yes, it hurts the US too but it hurts China more. China has a been in deflation for a while, go look it up. US cant be in a situation where say there is a conflict with China - China can then hurt the US economy in an act of war by stopping all imports to US. US doesnt have a recourse. China is a rogue nation and the US needs to be prepared for that. China is a manufacturing based economy and it is already feeling the pinch. So, yes Trump going aggressive on China is totally fine.
China deflation :

https://www.reuters.com/world/china/chinas-consumer-prices-extend-declines-march-2025-04-10/

Regarding allies, guess what. Almost all the 70 countries that were tariffed want to negotiate with the US to finalize a new tariff structure incl the EU. They could have gone their own ways and worked with China but no, they wont as they know China is a rogue nation. And the SE countries are going against China now. See this link :

Trump's tariffs leave China's neighbours with an impossible choice

Ambitious economies like Vietnam and Indonesia are stuck between China and the US as the trade war escalates.

www.bbc.com

And guess what, China has now reached out to its arch rival India bcos of the US tariffs. So much for being a super power who doesnt need anyone LOL !

China says it's ready to open market to import more Indian goods, urges 'non-discriminatory' stance for its firms

China is seeking greater economic collaboration with India, inviting more Indian goods into its market. Ambassador Xu Feihong has urged India to provide a fair environment for Chinese businesses, addressing concerns over visa delays and perceived unfair treatment.

economictimes.indiatimes.com

And regarding the US bonds, your posts show you have zero idea on it. The US bonds are the most stable and preferred options for other governments. There is a reason China buys US debt with treasury bonds. If they dump the bonds, it will be a disaster for them. read this before making nonsensical posts . China can go near the Eurozone but doesnt want to.

Why China Buys U.S. Debt With Treasury Bonds

China and many other countries buy U.S. debt through the purchase of Treasury bonds. Here are the factors behind those purchases.

www.investopedia.com

End of the day , China is a banana republic with no safeguards in place whereas the US is a democracy with laws and regulations. The foundations of the US economy are strong and will outlast any Communist authoritative banana nations with inflated and exaggerated numbers. Look up the China apartment issue where 1/3rd of almost all Chinese apartments are vacant. China is no where near close to the purchasing power of the US consumer. They know that. So, instead of all the China this China that and US is losing baaaaadly biiiiiiiiiiiig time posts, time for a reality check I guess.

And regarding your US inflation concerns, am totally OK with it. The inflation is getting crazy and the market needs a correction , a return to the baseline. And if that entails a mild induced recession, so be it. Am all for it. Every uneducated school drop out Tom D and Harry cant claim a 8-4 job using inflation as an excuse. Need a drop in that which reduces the development prices for developers and investors which is what I want. And it will help commercial interest rates to come down as well which are 10-12% now ridiculous now and make projects non feasible. So yeah, I totally want a market correction with a dip.

@rpant_gabba : waiting for your response to this.

 

[Red-Indian]

Nobody will dump the US bonds. It will be a financial disaster for them. As you said just the flavor of the month with absolutely no understanding of what it is . China this China that , China will destroy US is what the Pak posters here like but they have no concept of reality.

There is a reason why China buys US debt with bonds and doesnt want to let go. For a so called wannabe super power, that says something. They can go to Eurozone but wont.

The reality is that Trump is betting that US is a stronger financial power than China and he is right. Yes, approach to it can be more fine tuned but the basic premise stays the same. The US economy is fundamentally much stronger and secure than the Chinese economy and will continue for a long long time just because of the rules, laws regulations etc which China doesnt adhere to as its a banana shell republic.

I do believe relying on other nations and their leaders to be sensible in order to contain Trump's idiocy is a flawed strategy. You're also betting on them reading Trump's mind to realise that the war on them and their countries is only a sideshow and they should ignore that to help Trump's war on China.

The fundamental flaw of your theory that everyone else will behave sensibly and carefully and therefore we can afford Trump behaving erratically is that if one leader takes a risk (say dumping US treasuries) in order to appease their domestic electorate even if it is a stupid decision economically, it can start a massive domino effect. If that happens, everyone will start behaving irrationally in order not to be the last left holding the baby. And voila...we've collapsed the global economic system and are in the middle of a great depression.

 

[deltexas]

I do believe relying on other nations and their leaders to be sensible in order to contain Trump's idiocy is a flawed strategy. You're also betting on them reading Trump's mind to realise that the war on them and their countries is only a sideshow and they should ignore that to help Trump's war on China.

The fundamental flaw of your theory that everyone else will behave sensibly and carefully and therefore we can afford Trump behaving erratically is that if one leader takes a risk (say dumping US treasuries) in order to appease their domestic electorate even if it is a stupid decision economically, it can start a massive domino effect. If that happens, everyone will start behaving irrationally in order not to be the last left holding the baby. And voila...we've collapsed the global economic system and are in the middle of a great depression.

China owns a lot of US bonds, but the vast majority are held domestically.

If China attempted to sell all of their bonds rapidly to disrupt the market, the Federal Reserve would step in and purchase ALL of them, or provide unlimited liquidity for US banks to do it. China would lose a vast amount of wealth, it would be a catastrophic mistake.

China could stop buying more US debt and let the existing debt mature, while slowly selling longer dated bonds. They could be out in 10 years.

But China wants USD because it’s helpful for imports. You can’t really buy foreign goods with yuan, you need USD or Euros, China is stuck with USD. For example, oil is almost always traded in US dollars. The reality is other than China , no country can even afford to take that risk. And China is no risking as it will be catastrophic for them. The Chinese economy is in a deflation mode and this move will bury them for a long long time probably permanently..

China’s US bond holdings are going nowhere fast:

https://www.reuters.com/breakingviews/chinas-us-bond-holdings-are-going-nowhere-fast-2025-04-17/

 

[Red-Indian]

China owns a lot of US bonds, but the vast majority are held domestically.

If China attempted to sell all of their bonds rapidly to disrupt the market, the Federal Reserve would step in and purchase ALL of them, or provide unlimited liquidity for US banks to do it. China would lose a vast amount of wealth, it would be a catastrophic mistake.

China could stop buying more US debt and let the existing debt mature, while slowly selling longer dated bonds. They could be out in 10 years.

But China wants USD because it’s helpful for imports. You can’t really buy foreign goods with yuan, you need USD or Euros, China is stuck with USD. For example, oil is almost always traded in US dollars. The reality is other than China , no country can even afford to take that risk. And China is no risking as it will be catastrophic for them. The Chinese economy is in a deflation mode and this move will bury them for a long long time probably permanently..

China’s US bond holdings are going nowhere fast:

https://www.reuters.com/breakingviews/chinas-us-bond-holdings-are-going-nowhere-fast-2025-04-17/

Though you're right to assume the most likely scenario is that most countries and leaders won't act as thoughtlessly and unplannedly as Trump, you're still being a bit naive to assume that'll save us. Of course China wouldn't want to sell US Treasuries willy-nilly and crash the value of their holdings but they're not the only holders. There's ~$8T of US treasuries held overseas. It would take one irrational actor - let's say a Trump equivalent in Japan to trigger a collapse. And if a crash starts, people don't behave rationally and calmly. It's every man/woman/country/financial institution for themselves from there.

And you're right, the Fed could step in and print money to buy up the Treasuries but then...of course you trigger inflation. I don't know if you subscribe to The Economist but here's a piece that lays down how the contours of such a crisis.

How a Dollar crisis would unfold

Here's another example from WSJ

Trump’s Trade Offensive Threatens America’s Financial Primacy

We're in uncharted waters here and I would love to have 5% of the faith and devotion you seem to have for Trump's unproven economic sagacity to make me feel less nervous.

 

[deltexas]

Though you're right to assume the most likely scenario is that most countries and leaders won't act as thoughtlessly and unplannedly as Trump, you're still being a bit naive to assume that'll save us. Of course China wouldn't want to sell US Treasuries willy-nilly and crash the value of their holdings but they're not the only holders. There's ~$8T of US treasuries held overseas. It would take one irrational actor - let's say a Trump equivalent in Japan to trigger a collapse. And if a crash starts, people don't behave rationally and calmly. It's every man/woman/country/financial institution for themselves from there.

And you're right, the Fed could step in and print money to buy up the Treasuries but then...of course you trigger inflation. I don't know if you subscribe to The Economist but here's a piece that lays down how the contours of such a crisis.

How a Dollar crisis would unfold

Here's another example from WSJ

Trump’s Trade Offensive Threatens America’s Financial Primacy

We're in uncharted waters here and I would love to have 5% of the faith and devotion you seem to have for Trump's unproven economic sagacity to make me feel less nervous.

The faith I have is in the US being fundamentally economically strong. No other country even has the wherewithal to even pretend to be an irrational actor. And the doomsday scenarios by Economist and WSJ have been written before but nothing materialized.

FWIW, China Wants Countries to Unite Against Trump, but Is Met With Wariness :

China Wants Countries to Unite Against Trump, but Is Met With Wariness

Beijing is using a mix of carrots and sticks to try to prevent other countries from siding with the United States in isolating China.

www.nytimes.com

Countries know China is a rogue nation with no regulations and democratic safeguards no matter how much China talks it up. And thats the crux f the issue. The US has to deal with China before it becomes too big to deal. Pain for both yes sure, but the US will ride it out way better than China. The Chinese factories have already started hurting with a stall in future orderd from US companies. I beleive you underestimate the strength of the US economy and a mild recession is actually not a bad thing to happen - reduces inflation and comes back to a baseline level.

 

[deltexas]

Though you're right to assume the most likely scenario is that most countries and leaders won't act as thoughtlessly and unplannedly as Trump, you're still being a bit naive to assume that'll save us. Of course China wouldn't want to sell US Treasuries willy-nilly and crash the value of their holdings but they're not the only holders. There's ~$8T of US treasuries held overseas. It would take one irrational actor - let's say a Trump equivalent in Japan to trigger a collapse. And if a crash starts, people don't behave rationally and calmly. It's every man/woman/country/financial institution for themselves from there.

And you're right, the Fed could step in and print money to buy up the Treasuries but then...of course you trigger inflation. I don't know if you subscribe to The Economist but here's a piece that lays down how the contours of such a crisis.

How a Dollar crisis would unfold

Here's another example from WSJ

Trump’s Trade Offensive Threatens America’s Financial Primacy

We're in uncharted waters here and I would love to have 5% of the faith and devotion you seem to have for Trump's unproven economic sagacity to make me feel less nervous.

Also there is no trust in China - trust issues. China has shown a disregard for international law time and time again.

Some examples as to what China does :

• Relentlessly bullies countries around it for years.
• Claims their sovereign waters and places military bases there, blinds sailors, rams ships, causes ruckus.
• Allows fishing fleet to destroy fish stocks right outside the sovereign waters of foreign countries.
• Constantly threatening to invade one of their neighbors.
• Bans Japanese fish over unsubstantiated claims of toxicity
• Builds headquarters for the African Union, later found to have hidden listening devices in practically every crevice of the place, and all the data was sent to Beijing every night.
• Loves using economic leverage to bully countries into submission for minor slights

Also, I think this is a bad take from WSJ . If countries united against Trump then Chinese goods cannot make it to USA. China doesnt need countries to take a black and white stance against Trump. They need countries to stay gray not commit to Trump. That's what they really want. That way countries like Vietnam and Indonesia can continue to help China service the American market. If Vietnam takes a stance against Trump, then all those Chinese investments in Vietnam just goes down the drain. Not surprising, but as usual China displays it's political duality. Wasn't so long ago China chose to punish these now "best friends" trading partners following COVID. If China has a strong domestic market, it doesn't need an international partner to consume its excessive products. But the problem is that the domestic demand is always weak compared to the supply, especially in recent years. So other countries will be worried that they might be flooded with Chinese products and destroy their own industry if they team up with China.

 

[deltexas]

On China - Maybe if they'd stop supporting Russia and leave Taiwan alone, they'd be in a MUCH better position. They are in constant territorial disputes with neighboring countries because they are basically the Russia of Asia. Not exactly a reputable country you want to ally yourself with. On top of that, China is rife with IP theft. The moment a western company gets a factory build in china, their know-how and tech is already copied and produced by a Chinese company at the fraction of the same price, and from there it then only goes upwards, as they improve the quality.

Countries know better that the US is a far better partner than China ever would be even with the tariff situation. At the end of the day freedom , democracy, and transparency outweighs everything else

 

[deltexas]

Already China is showing what a rogue nation it is .

Trump tariffs: China warns nations against 'appeasing' US in trade deals:

Trump tariffs: China warns nations against 'appeasing' US in trade deals

Beijing was responding to reports that the US will pressure other nations to restrict trade with China.

www.bbc.com

@rpant_gabba : any feedback on this ??

 

[Devadwal]

Already China is showing what a rogue nation it is .

Trump tariffs: China warns nations against 'appeasing' US in trade deals:

Trump tariffs: China warns nations against 'appeasing' US in trade deals

Beijing was responding to reports that the US will pressure other nations to restrict trade with China.

www.bbc.com

@rpant_gabba : any feedback on this ??

China has warned it will retaliate against countries that negotiate trade deals with the US “at the expense of China’s interests
Being nice will help. But, no.

And China retaliation is exactly what we need to curtail Chinese imports.

 

[Red-Indian]

The faith I have is in the US being fundamentally economically strong. No other country even has the wherewithal to even pretend to be an irrational actor. And the doomsday scenarios by Economist and WSJ have been written before but nothing materialized.

FWIW, China Wants Countries to Unite Against Trump, but Is Met With Wariness :

China Wants Countries to Unite Against Trump, but Is Met With Wariness

Beijing is using a mix of carrots and sticks to try to prevent other countries from siding with the United States in isolating China.

www.nytimes.com

Countries know China is a rogue nation with no regulations and democratic safeguards no matter how much China talks it up. And thats the crux f the issue. The US has to deal with China before it becomes too big to deal. Pain for both yes sure, but the US will ride it out way better than China. The Chinese factories have already started hurting with a stall in future orderd from US companies. I beleive you underestimate the strength of the US economy and a mild recession is actually not a bad thing to happen - reduces inflation and comes back to a baseline level.

Let's see. I wish I had your confidence. I agree that despite a few holes, the US economy is still very strong. The last 3-4 years have been excellent for it. It's a particular kind of strength though. There's not a lot of willingness to accept pain in order to achieve strategic goals.

And of course most countries don't trust China. They're an undemocratic, opaque, selfish superpower. What'll surprise you is that most countries don't trust the US either. Almost every one of the accusations in your long list of complaints against China can be laid at the States' door as well - invading countries (Vietnam, Iraq), propping up dictators (Zia-ul-haq, Batista, Marcos), spying on friends etc. The list goes on. This kind of nonsense is just what superpowers do and always have done dating back to the Assyrians.

Today, given the craziness and uncertainty, no country (except their puppets Russia) is going to align itself with either China or the US. Best to stay away from the chaos, pretend to negotiate with the States, live with the 10% tariffs and pass on the impact. Let's see where that leads us but it certainly isn't going to be an easy ride for anyone.