Updated UN Terror List - Will Pakistan act to fulfill its obligations?

[OoparCut]

https://www.dawn.com/news/1399445/un-terror-list-has-139-pakistan-entries

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WASHINGTON: The United Nations Security Council’s consolidated list of terrorist individuals and entities includes 139 entries from Pakistan.

The list — updated and accessed on Tuesday — identifies all those individuals who have lived in Pakistan, operated from there or have been associated with groups that used Pakistani territory for carrying out their operations, from Al Qaeda’s Ayman al-Zawahiri to known Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) activists.

The first person on the list is Ayman al-Zawahiri, Osama bin Laden’s heir apparent. The UN data claims that he is still hiding somewhere “in the Afghanistan-Pakistan border area”. Several of his lieutenants are also on the list who, the UN believes, are hiding with him.

The second person on the list is another internationally known terrorist, Ramzi Mohammad bin al-Sheibah, who is identified as a Yemeni national, arrested in Karachi and handed over to the US authorities.

Hafiz Saeed listed as a person wanted by Interpol for involvement in terrorist activities

More than a dozen suspected terrorists are listed in the same category, arrested in Pakistan and handed over to the US authorities. Some of them had Pakistani passport, issued by various Pakistani missions in the Middle East and renewed in Pakistan.

The list also includes Dawood Ibrahim Kaskar, an Indian national who, according to the UN Security Council, has held several Pakistani passports issued in Rawalpindi and Karachi. The UN claims that he owns a “palatial bungalow in the hilly area of Noorabad, Karachi”.

LeT’s Hafiz Mohammad Saeed is listed as a person also wanted by Interpol for his involvement in terrorist activities. Haji Mohammed Yahya Mujahid, LeT’s media contact, and Hafiz Saeed’s deputies, Abdul Salaam and Zafar Iqbal, are listed under him. Like Hafiz Saeed, they are all wanted by Interpol.

LeT is listed with its various aliases, such as al-Mansoorian, Paasban-i-Kashmir, Paasban-i-Ahle Hadith, Jamaatud Dawa and Falah-i-Insaniat Foundation.

Terrorist entities that were allegedly based in Pakistan, worked from there or had links to Pakistani individuals, include Al Rasheed Trust, Harkatul Mujahideen, Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan, Wafa Humanitarian Organisation, Jaish-e-Mohammed, Rabita Trust, Ummah Tameer-i-Nau, Afghan Support Committee, Revival of Islamic Heritage Society, Lashkar-i-Jhangvi, Al-Harmain Foundation, Islamic Jihad Group, Al Akhtar Trust International, Harkatul Jihad Islami, Tehreek-i-Taliban Pakistan, Jamaatul Ahrar and Khatiba Imam Al-Bukhari.

Some of them are listed as based in the Afghanistan-Pakistan border area.

Published in Dawn, April 4th, 2018

 

[akki]

139 entries ,so UN recognized terrorists. Its a very scary thing that we share border with the state that has this amount of world most wanted terrorists.
Innocents kashmiris has been brainwashed and suffering due to this. May God prevail sanity to them.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Indians have had a tough time in the past few days with their Army murdering innocent children and being front page news across the world.

This thread is more of a creature comfort/retaliation for them, than anything else. Or simply put, a failed diversion tactic.

 

[BreadPakoda]

Indians have had a tough time in the past few days with their Army murdering innocent children and being front page news across the world.

This thread is more of a creature comfort/retaliation for them, than anything else. Or simply put, a failed diversion tactic.

Its todays article from a Pakistani news paper. You seem like the only person trying to divert the topic.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Its todays article from a Pakistani news paper. You seem like the only person trying to divert the topic.

Articles like this pop up every day on every news channel; why the thread today I wonder. Hmmm.

 

[Thomaskutty]

Indians have had a tough time in the past few days with their Army murdering innocent children and being front page news across the world.

This thread is more of a creature comfort/retaliation for them, than anything else. Or simply put, a failed diversion tactic.

With this list , the UN has more or less described Pakistan as the epicentre of terrorism, Are you not concerned ? Why aren't you doing anything about this ? These groups don't simply come into existence without patronage.

As civilians ,you should march upto Rawalpindi headquarters in true grassroots style and demand action !

 

[R3verse Swing]

With this list , the UN has more or less described Pakistan as the epicentre of terrorism, Are you not concerned ? Why aren't you doing anything about this ? These groups don't simply come into existence without patronage.

As civilians ,you should march upto Rawalpindi headquarters in true grassroots style and demand action !

Or we can vote a religious terrorist once banned by the West, on the UN list, supporting a banned Hindutva ideology, who was responsible for the murder of 1000s of innocent people - for PM!

That's how Indians deal with terrorists right?

 

[BreadPakoda]

Articles like this pop up every day on every news channel; why the thread today I wonder. Hmmm.

And if it still doesn’t send a chill down your spine, then its worrisome. Its an important issue that needs to be addressed. Hope IK will clean the mess.

 

[BreadPakoda]

Or we can vote a religious terrorist once banned by the West, on the UN list, supporting a banned Hindutva ideology, who was responsible for the murder of 1000s of innocent people - for PM!

That's how Indians deal with terrorists right?

Not a fan of Modi, but was he really on the UN terror list, as you say? And which Hindutva ideology has been banned?

 

[Hitman]

Not a fan of Modi, but was he really on the UN terror list, as you say? And which Hindutva ideology has been banned?

For some people, being denied visa on a single occassion is equivalent to being put on the UN terror list

 

[R3verse Swing]

And if it still doesn’t send a chill down your spine, then its worrisome. Its an important issue that needs to be addressed. Hope IK will clean the mess.

It doesn't, because I have lived long enough to know how the media works.

Nelson Mandela, Martin McGuinness, and the recent Winnie Mandela. ALL terrorists, then anointed for sainthood!

Remember OBL was a hero in the USA when USA was fighting the war in Afghanistan. War over, OBL is the terrorist.

So keep the lists flowing and growing because on 10 years it will be the Russians.

 

[Thomaskutty]

Or we can vote a religious terrorist once banned by the West, on the UN list, supporting a banned Hindutva ideology, who was responsible for the murder of 1000s of innocent people - for PM!

That's how Indians deal with terrorists right?

Not going to engage in inane whatbouttery. You seem hell bent on not addressing the topic and going off on tangents probably because you feel powerless to do anything about it. I understand.

Nothing in Pakistan will change unless civil society marches up to Rawalpindi in huge numbers , stage a dharna and demand change .. Show them what people power is !

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

One of our most esteemed and most joshila members of the Indian guest community on PP quite often tells us that Indian policy is decided by Indians alone and nobody else can decide it. So if that's true, why is the UN verdict suddenly relevant when it comes to Pakistan? Isn't this double standards?

Please make your minds up and then we can take it from there.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Not going to engage in inane whatbouttery. You seem hell bent on not addressing the topic and going off on tangents probably because you feel powerless to do anything about it. I understand.

Nothing in Pakistan will change unless civil society marches up to Rawalpindi in huge numbers , stage a dharna and demand change ! Show them what people power is.

Hey you asked me what Pakistan should do, I suggested we do the same as Indians - vote a terrorist for PM - show them what people power is!

Indians/UN have no ground to tell what Pakistan should do about so called *alleged* terrorists.

 

[OoparCut]

Not going to engage in inane whatbouttery. You seem hell bent on not addressing the topic and going off on tangents probably because you feel powerless to do anything about it. I understand.

Nothing in Pakistan will change unless civil society marches up to Rawalpindi in huge numbers , stage a dharna and demand change .. Show them what people power is !

Really isn't much point engaging with certain folks, who specialize in tangents and personal attacks, ficitional accusations of bangladeshi etc.

On the point you raise. I'm borderline atheist myself, but will definitely pray that my Pakistani brothers some day are able to obtain the human rights of self determination in their own country. They do seem to love that "self-determination" word. I hope they get to experience it firsthand. Maybe in another 10 or 20 years?

 

[R3verse Swing]

One of our most esteemed and most joshila members of the Indian guest community on PP quite often tells us that Indian policy is decided by Indians alone and nobody else can decide it. So if that's true, why is the UN verdict suddenly relevant when it comes to Pakistan? Isn't this double standards?

Please make your minds up and then we can take it from there.

Exactly, the concern Indians are showing is misleading, it's just a reaction to how the Indian Army (the real terrorists) were caught murdering innocent and unarmed children.

Not to mention, when it comes to other political disputes, the relevant UN resolution is ignored.

 

[gani999]

. So if that's true, why is the UN verdict suddenly relevant when it comes to Pakistan? .

Just to tell some delusional Pakistanis that it is not the Indians alone who think that Pakistan is the epicentre of World terrorism. Even the biggest association of all the World's nations (of which Pakistan too is a member), thinks the same.

 

[cricketjoshila]

One of our most esteemed and most joshila members of the Indian guest community on PP quite often tells us that Indian policy is decided by Indians alone and nobody else can decide it. So if that's true, why is the UN verdict suddenly relevant when it comes to Pakistan? Isn't this double standards?

Please make your minds up and then we can take it from there.

All that is true, for any sovereign nation


but only till Pakistanis dont go around killing people in foreign countries. That then involves others.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Just to tell some delusional Pakistanis that it is not the Indians alone who think that Pakistan is the epicentre of World terrorism. Even the biggest association of all the World's nations (of which Pakistan too is a member), thinks the same.

The whataboutery on PP wont change the facts.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Indians have been killing in foreign countries too, we can start with Air India Flight 182. Still remains the 2nd biggest terrorist attack in history.

 

[Romali_rotti]

Whats worrying here in my eyes is Pakistanis from Pakistan is not really taking part in this thread yet but the defenders of Islam from the UK are starting to gather.. I honestly believe if Pakistanis in Pakistan had the might and strength of the Pakistani's keyboard in the UK, Pakistan would have taken back Indian Kashmir, cleaned up the UN terror list and would become a first world country...

 

[R3verse Swing]

To the educated, who defines who is a terrorist and who is not? One day Mandela is a terrorist, the next day he is not?

Remember you have delusional Indians who believe the Taliban is the creation of Pakistan, when history reveals the Taliban, much like ISIS is the result of a power vacuum left by Western intervention.

But no folks, it took 4 people to bring India on its knees in 2008 for a few days - this is if you agree with the official narrative.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

All that is true, for any sovereign nation


but only till Pakistanis dont go around killing people in foreign countries. That then involves others.

The UN can be involved in all countries where human rights are violated, regardless of whether the victims are foreign or home based. Either you accept international sanction for India (UN or otherwise) or you can't use it against Pakistan. Let's have some consistency here.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Whats worrying here in my eyes is Pakistanis from Pakistan is not really taking part in this thread yet but the defenders of Islam from the UK are starting to gather.. I honestly believe if Pakistanis in Pakistan had the might and strength of the Pakistani's keyboard in the UK, Pakistan would have taken back Indian Kashmir, cleaned up the UN terror list and would become a first world country...

Spoken like a true fair dinkum Aussie. Almost.

 

[cricketjoshila]

The UN can be involved in all countries where human rights are violated, regardless of whether the victims are foreign or home based. Either you accept international sanction for India (UN or otherwise) or you can't use it against Pakistan. Let's have some consistency here.

Which international sanction has been put on India? If there was a sanction others will be following it even if India doesnot.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Which international sanction has been put on India? If there was a sanction others will be following it even if India doesnot.

Your current Prime Minister was barred from USA for one. I'm assuming you now accept that it was a legitimate sanction.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Your current Prime Minister was barred from USA for one. I'm assuming you now accept that it was a legitimate sanction.

Usa denying visa was a UN sanction?

Any country can deny any foreigner visa. Thats its right.

The current PM was also hosted by two US presidents, addressed the congress to thundering applause and had an article written about him by a sitting US President.

 

[Vegitto1]

ISI should assist these people in making their way into India.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Your current Prime Minister was barred from USA for one. I'm assuming you now accept that it was a legitimate sanction.

Yup, and a proper ban, not a VISA denial.

Modi remains the only person ever to be banned to travel to the United States of America under the International Religious Freedom Act (IRFA) provision of US Immigration and Nationality Act (INA).

Indians will defuse this by claiming a ban is the same as a rejection, where as with rejection one can apply again. With a ban, you are toast.

Don't forget the sanctions on India post their nuclear tests. Proper whooping by the USA.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Usa denying visa was a UN sanction?

Any country can deny any foreigner visa. Thats its right.

The current PM was also hosted by two US presidents, addressed the congress to thundering applause and had an article written about him by a sitting US President.

It was an international sanction, I didn't say it was a UN sanction. Is the UN taken seriously any more as an international body? It's basically considered a useful rubber stamp for US/UK policy in most parts of the world. If you think it has auhtority over Indian sovereignty then please say so and we can take the conversation forward.

 

[R3verse Swing]

We should also remember, the RSS was BANNED in India following their terrorists activities in 1948.

But PEOPLE POWER of India forced the ban to be lifted.

Fast forward today. An RSS sympathiser - terrorist is the PM of India.

http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/Lifting-of-ban-on-RSS-was-unconditional/article11806185.ece

This is what happens in India, yet Indians have the audacity to tell Pakistan what it should do with terrorists.

 

[cricketjoshila]

It was an international sanction, I didn't say it was a UN sanction. Is the UN taken seriously any more as an international body? It's basically considered a useful rubber stamp for US/UK policy in most parts of the world. If you think it has auhtority over Indian sovereignty then please say so and we can take the conversation forward.

Just because UN actions dont conform to your views they are a rubber stamp?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Just because UN actions dont conform to your views they are a rubber stamp?

That's not my view, it has been expressed by many journalists. Please read properly, at no time did I say it was my view.

 

[Muddaser]

Oh so now the UN "Under Nineteen" matters?

 

[barah_admi]

https://www.dawn.com/news/1399445/un-terror-list-has-139-pakistan-entries

I'm trying to find the list on the official UN website, the best I can find is a list of sanctions on nations and individuals. Can you link me the actual UN list for this one?

Plus, if we're to have a grown up discussion on the matter ,is most of this not down to perspective? According to the USA owned UN, there won't be any, or minimal Indian terrorists Indian militants, or more presciently, Indian military personnel would not be regarded as terrorists. A Muslim fighting against such aggression would be regarded as a terrorist. Much like Mandela for many years accoridng to western backed organisations.

However, according to Indias on NIA list, of the 54 individuals on that list as of 2014, at least 24 were non Muslims (mainly Hindu from the sounds of it). So where are they on the UN list may I ask?

 

[blue_champion]

Looks like The Who’s who of world terrorism are based in Pakistan... no wonder there is an issue with Indian army putting some lesser elite ones out of their misery

 

[Abhilash93]

I'm trying to find the list on the official UN website, the best I can find is a list of sanctions on nations and individuals. Can you link me the actual UN list for this one?

Plus, if we're to have a grown up discussion on the matter ,is most of this not down to perspective? According to the USA owned UN, there won't be any, or minimal Indian terrorists Indian militants, or more presciently, Indian military personnel would not be regarded as terrorists. A Muslim fighting against such aggression would be regarded as a terrorist. Much like Mandela for many years accoridng to western backed organisations.

However, according to Indias on NIA list, of the 54 individuals on that list as of 2014, at least 24 were non Muslims (mainly Hindu from the sounds of it). So where are they on the UN list may I ask?

Did you just compare the likes of Lashkar-e-Toiba with Mandela ? Wow!

 

[R3verse Swing]

Did you just compare the likes of Lashkar-e-Toiba with Mandela ? Wow!

What he means is that one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

Mandela was in prison on terrorist charges. There is no denying. He was a terrorist according to some, but a freedom fighter to others. The perception of Mandela changed through the years via the media.

Martin McGuiness is another one, an IRA terrorist who murdered 1000s, he was anointed for sainthood by the Queen of Britain after the GFA.

The reality is a Muslim attacking/fighting will be deemed a terrorist by the Western media. This is a fact.

So in otherwords, who is a terrorist - is a perception, not a reality.

 

[barah_admi]

Did you just compare the likes of Lashkar-e-Toiba with Mandela ? Wow!

Why shouldn't they be compared? Mandela commanded those under him to carry out bombings, some claim he commanded members of the ANC militia to carry out kidnappings and beyond. He was a terrorist, an individual who worked against the officially recognised government of his country. Those poor black africans he fought for however, would have seen it differently.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Why shouldn't they be compared? Mandela commanded those under him to carry out bombings, some claim he commanded members of the ANC militia to carry out kidnappings and beyond. He was a terrorist, an individual who worked against the officially recognised government of his country. Those poor black africans he fought for however, would have seen it differently.

In 20 years time, history books will omit these facts.

 

[troodon]

Hard to keep up with the names of Hafiz Sayeds groups. Every few weeks, he changes the name.

Sometimes I feel even Hafiz Sayed might not know the name of his own organization.

 

[akki]

Pakistanis comparing modi denied usa visa to hundred plus UN recognized most wanted terrorists .this is the level of education and knowledge of people
Aeaech google modi comes top 5 leaders of world. Got highest civilian awards in saudi arabia ,iran and many proper MUSLIM countries and got highest reception ever in usa ,uk and everywhere.
Do people have some common sense ? Denying visa when he didnt even apply ,when there was case on him comparying to the world most wanted terrorists

 

[blue_champion]

So these elite names are being compared with Mandela

What next....comparing them with successful CEO’s worldwide and for being heads of tightly run organizations and making “elite” lists in the USA

 

[OoparCut]

So these elite names are being compared with Mandela

What next....comparing them with successful CEO’s worldwide and for being heads of tightly run organizations and making “elite” lists in the USA

Watch the youtube video of some 2 bit Pakistani tv/movie actor with Hafiz Saeed, he speaks to him as if he is some kind of sadhu or muslim santa claus. Its hilarious.

 

[Abhilash93]

What he means is that one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

Mandela was in prison on terrorist charges. There is no denying. He was a terrorist according to some, but a freedom fighter to others. The perception of Mandela changed through the years via the media.

Martin McGuiness is another one, an IRA terrorist who murdered 1000s, he was anointed for sainthood by the Queen of Britain after the GFA.

The reality is a Muslim attacking/fighting will be deemed a terrorist by the Western media. This is a fact.

So in otherwords, who is a terrorist - is a perception, not a reality.

Why shouldn't they be compared? Mandela commanded those under him to carry out bombings, some claim he commanded members of the ANC militia to carry out kidnappings and beyond. He was a terrorist, an individual who worked against the officially recognised government of his country. Those poor black africans he fought for however, would have seen it differently.

Although the violence that was part of the revolution is certainly condemnable, we need to look deeper at the objectives. What did they intend to achieve ?

While Mandela & Co aspired to have equal voting rights and constitutional reform, the objectives of these jihadists are wildly different. They want to run an oppressive theocracy, punish all 'non-believers' and impose their ideology on everybody, which is not very different from how Taliban or ISIS governed the areas that they ruled.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Indians got schooled already on who controls Kashmir today, now they are denying Mandela was a terrorist. In other words, people should ask why was Mandela in prison in the first place - the penny will finally drop.

I bet Indians do not even know that RSS was banned in India too for being a terrorist organisation.

Kids of today and the education standards of India - even with Google at their disposal!

 

[R3verse Swing]

Although the violence that was part of the revolution is certainly condemnable, we need to look deeper at the objectives. What did they intend to achieve ?

While Mandela & Co aspired to have equal voting rights and constitutional reform, the objectives of these jihadists are wildly different. They want to run an oppressive theocracy, punish all 'non-believers' and impose their ideology on everybody, which is not very different from how Taliban or ISIS governed the areas that they ruled.

The definition of a terrorist:

The unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.

At a high level and deeper dive, they were no different.

Are you saying Mandela wanted equal voting rights so this justifies his terrorism? I put to you the likes of Al-Qaeda are avenging Western intervention and are seeking justice for their lost ones in places such as Iraq.

 

[Abhilash93]

The definition of a terrorist:



At a high level and deeper dive, they were no different.

Are you saying Mandela wanted equal voting rights so this justifies his terrorism? I put to you the likes of Al-Qaeda are avenging Western intervention and are seeking justice for their lost ones in places such as Iraq.

So you are now defending Al-Qaeda

I give up, yes Al-Qaeda and Mandela are no different.

 

[R3verse Swing]

So you are now defending Al-Qaeda

I give up, yes Al-Qaeda and Mandela are no different.

I was not defending Al-Qaeda at all. Not sure how you arrived at that conclusion. I was using your own logic, posited a question, and you gave up. That's how ridiculous your post/point was.

In fact you were justifying Mandela's terrorism in the name of equality, but I guess when it comes to justice, equality doesn't exist.

Keep in mind how terrorism is defined, and stop splitting hairs. Mandela was a terrorist - it has sweet FA to do with religion.

 

[OoparCut]

So you are now defending Al-Qaeda

I give up, yes Al-Qaeda and Mandela are no different.

I wouldn't be surprised if reverse swing gets picked up by local authorities for 'questioning' after that gem.

I'm actually surprised that this website, being based in the UK, is actually allowing a poster to write pro-al qaida messages on their forum.

 

[R3verse Swing]

I wouldn't be surprised if reverse swing gets picked up by local authorities for 'questioning' after that gem.

I'm actually surprised that this website, being based in the UK, is actually allowing a poster to write pro-al qaida messages on their forum.

You would say that, living in Bangladesh. This is the UK, topics like this are discussed on Radio/TV ALL the time.

I merely stated the line from a UK court case recently where the convicted terrorist wanted to avenge the death of his family in Iraq, instead of religion being his motive.

Then again you know about court cases don't you.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Pakistanis comparing modi denied usa visa to hundred plus UN recognized most wanted terrorists .this is the level of education and knowledge of people
Aeaech google modi comes top 5 leaders of world. Got highest civilian awards in saudi arabia ,iran and many proper MUSLIM countries and got highest reception ever in usa ,uk and everywhere.
Do people have some common sense ? Denying visa when he didnt even apply ,when there was case on him comparying to the world most wanted terrorists

How you can deride Pakistanis for calling out Modi while praising Saudi Arabia and Iran for doling out awards for a fellow religious extremist is absolutely staggering. My god, you guys are making Pakistan look like an oasis of peace and moderation if you count these nutcase countries as your exemplars.

 

[blue_champion]

I wouldn't be surprised if reverse swing gets picked up by local authorities for 'questioning' after that gem.

I'm actually surprised that this website, being based in the UK, is actually allowing a poster to write pro-al qaida messages on their forum.

Actually the common folk in Pakistan or for the matter of fact Kashmir just want to get on with their lives...I mean it’s a running stereotype(with some legitimate reasoning) of the Brit Pakistani living comfortably on social security income who seem to sympathize with these “causes”....apologize if it offends anyone but it’s a growing opinion worldwide and I am definitely against stereotypes but it is an unfortunate stereotype which even the good ones have to live with.

I mean most radicals caught in the West or everywhere else in the world seem to have this “brit-pak” connection. I am not talking about the average illiterate village dwellers brainwashed and promised “goodies” but the more sophisticated ones who infiltrate into regular society. These are the more dangerous ones.

I am not implying anything against reverseswing here...he might be by all accounts just an average joe good guy ,but the atmosphere around him might make him lean towards the kind of opinions he has.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Actually the common folk in Pakistan or for the matter of fact Kashmir just want to get on with their lives...I mean it’s a running stereotype(with some legitimate reasoning) of the Brit Pakistani living comfortably on social security income who seem to sympathize with these “causes”....apologize if it offends anyone but it’s a growing opinion worldwide and I am definitely against stereotypes but it is an unfortunate stereotype which even the good ones have to live with.

I mean most radicals caught in the West or everywhere else in the world seem to have this “brit-pak” connection. I am not talking about the average illiterate village dwellers brainwashed and promised “goodies” but the more sophisticated ones who infiltrate into regular society. These are the more dangerous ones.

I am not implying anything against reverseswing here...he might be by all accounts just an average joe good guy ,but the atmosphere around him might make him lean towards the kind of opinions he has.

Do you know what most common topic of discussion is on UK News/Social media these days? Cause and effect of terrorism. This might be shocking to you but it should not be so, given you are actually supportive of the Indian army killing innocent unarmed children in Kashmir. Heck you even tried to justify it. This puts you (and supporters of the Indian Army with respect to Kashmir) in a different league to a terrorist sympathiser.

For you to say most radicals have a Brit-Pak connections, you are wrong. You are simply following the media narrative. Go look up the IRA. They have no connection with Pakistan, yet have killed MORE people than Islamic terrorism spanning the last 40 years in the UK.

People are asking why do Terrorists target the UK. Be it, the IRA of the 70s, 80s, 90s, ISIS, or some lone wolf. A recent case in UK court found that the Parson Green bombing was not religious motivated, but was a case of revenge. This means that the case was not one of religious terrorism.

People in the UK are trying to understand what motivates terrorism.

It is no surprise that attacks in the West have increased since Iraq 2003.

If people like you think discussing cause and effect is akin to sympathising with terrorists, then you fit the typical stereotype of an Indian worldwide - ignorant, poor, uneducated, and desperate - without wanting to imply anything, other than you most certainly support/justify the murder of innocent children in Kashmir.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Actually the common folk in Pakistan or for the matter of fact Kashmir just want to get on with their lives...I mean it’s a running stereotype(with some legitimate reasoning) of the Brit Pakistani living comfortably on social security income who seem to sympathize with these “causes”....apologize if it offends anyone but it’s a growing opinion worldwide and I am definitely against stereotypes but it is an unfortunate stereotype which even the good ones have to live with.

I mean most radicals caught in the West or everywhere else in the world seem to have this “brit-pak” connection. I am not talking about the average illiterate village dwellers brainwashed and promised “goodies” but the more sophisticated ones who infiltrate into regular society. These are the more dangerous ones.

I am not implying anything against reverseswing here...he might be by all accounts just an average joe good guy ,but the atmosphere around him might make him lean towards the kind of opinions he has.

Typical duplicity on display here from parosi posters. After making a song and dance about Pakistani terrorism and noises about the UN, when they are caught with their pants down praising fundo regimes of Saudi Arabia and Iran, they switch target to British Pakistanis. I would stop now and quietly retire from this thread. You aren't enhancing your nation's reputation.

 

[barah_admi]

Although the violence that was part of the revolution is certainly condemnable, we need to look deeper at the objectives. What did they intend to achieve ?

While Mandela & Co aspired to have equal voting rights and constitutional reform, the objectives of these jihadists are wildly different. They want to run an oppressive theocracy, punish all 'non-believers' and impose their ideology on everybody, which is not very different from how Taliban or ISIS governed the areas that they ruled.

What do you know about their objectives? So carrying bombings for votes is ok by you, but carrying out bombings (supposedly) for religious purposes (supposedly) are not?

Btw where is your friend oopercut in all this? He keeps running away every time I question him.

 

[barah_admi]

I wouldn't be surprised if reverse swing gets picked up by local authorities for 'questioning' after that gem.

I'm actually surprised that this website, being based in the UK, is actually allowing a poster to write pro-al qaida messages on their forum.

I know you know about me quoting you, so how about raising the question I raised.

 

[OoparCut]

What do you know about their objectives? So carrying bombings for votes is ok by you, but carrying out bombings (supposedly) for religious purposes (supposedly) are not?

Btw where is your friend oopercut in all this? He keeps running away every time I question him.

What's your "question" beta?

 

[R3verse Swing]

What do you know about their objectives? So carrying bombings for votes is ok by you, but carrying out bombings (supposedly) for religious purposes (supposedly) are not?

Btw where is your friend oopercut in all this? He keeps running away every time I question him.

He cannot answer it, because it will prove he is a hypocrite and has very little understanding - worse case will expose himself as a terrorist sympathiser (if he hasn't already with the actions of Indian Army in Kashmir of late).

There was another user who tried to justify Mandela terrorism and ended up with egg on his face.

 

[barah_admi]

What's your "question" beta?

Oh great, you finally worked up the courage to reply dada. I'll post my whole post but the question is at the end. Read all of what I've said.

I'm trying to find the list on the official UN website, the best I can find is a list of sanctions on nations and individuals. Can you link me the actual UN list for this one?

Plus, if we're to have a grown up discussion on the matter ,is most of this not down to perspective? According to the USA owned UN, there won't be any, or minimal Indian terrorists Indian militants, or more presciently, Indian military personnel would not be regarded as terrorists. A Muslim fighting against such aggression would be regarded as a terrorist. Much like Mandela for many years accoridng to western backed organisations.

However, according to Indias own NIA list, of the 54 individuals on that list as of 2014, at least 24 were non Muslims (mainly Hindu from the sounds of it). So where are they on the UN list may I ask?

 

[OoparCut]

Oh great, you finally worked up the courage to reply dada. I'll post my whole post but the question is at the end. Read all of what I've said.

I'm trying to find the list on the official UN website, the best I can find is a list of sanctions on nations and individuals. Can you link me the actual UN list for this one?

Plus, if we're to have a grown up discussion on the matter ,is most of this not down to perspective? According to the USA owned UN, there won't be any, or minimal Indian terrorists Indian militants, or more presciently, Indian military personnel would not be regarded as terrorists. A Muslim fighting against such aggression would be regarded as a terrorist. Much like Mandela for many years accoridng to western backed organisations.

However, according to Indias own NIA list, of the 54 individuals on that list as of 2014, at least 24 were non Muslims (mainly Hindu from the sounds of it). So where are they on the UN list may I ask?

I posted the article in the first post. Google is your friend if you want to search up the UN list.

I'm not familiar with this NIA list that you speak of, and if you are asking me - terrorists have no religion. Hindu, muslim whatever...

 

[PakLFC]

Indians getting their backsides handed to them in IoK find solace in the UN. Pak will do what Pak wants. Where is the UN when it comes to Palestine and the illegal invasion of Iraq. UN is just another name for America who is stuck in Afghanistan. If Pak courts say say Hafiz is innocent then it is all that matters. I don't take the UN seriously at all. There is no world problems that they have been able to resolve, not one.

 

[Hitman]

Don't know whether the people of Pakistan care or not, the people in authority definitely does. Regardless, it's definitely an extremely prestigious thing for Pakistan though. The ultimate jewel on the throne.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Indians getting their backsides handed to them in IoK find solace in the UN. Pak will do what Pak wants. Where is the UN when it comes to Palestine and the illegal invasion of Iraq. UN is just another name for America who is stuck in Afghanistan. If Pak courts say say Hafiz is innocent then it is all that matters. I don't take the UN seriously at all. There is no world problems that they have been able to resolve, not one.

J and K is de jure and de facto Indian territory. Just the other day 13 terrorists were killed. Dont know where you see India getting into trouble.

 

[Hadi Rizvi]

J and K is de jure and de facto Indian territory. Just the other day 13 terrorists were killed. Dont know where you see India getting into trouble.

Delusions, delusions, delusions.

Kabhi aao na Muzaffarabad, khushbu laga ke.

We'll show you who's de facto territory it is, i.e. however, if you ever manage to get past the LOC

 

[Test champion]

india are producing most NO. of software engineers ,doctor etc etc and pakistan producing most no. of terrorist (139) according to UN .

 

[barah_admi]

I posted the article in the first post. Google is your friend if you want to search up the UN list.

I'm not familiar with this NIA list that you speak of, and if you are asking me - terrorists have no religion. Hindu, muslim whatever...

Ok, so what was the purpose of you making this thread? Were you trying to highlight Pakistan has terrorists? Well, the NIA list shows India has quite a lot itself.

I'm curious as to what your point was...and please don't take 2 days to answer such a simple question chacha jee.

 

[barah_admi]

india are producing most NO. of software engineers ,doctor etc etc and pakistan producing most no. of terrorist (139) according to UN .

LOL all of that stupidity aside, the list isn't about producing terrorists, in fact the names associated with Pakistan on the list include people f rom many different nationalities, including India. The UN claims Pakistan is harbouring them.

Please get your facts straight so you don't come across as so ignorant.

 

[blue_champion]

india are producing most NO. of software engineers ,doctor etc etc and pakistan producing most no. of terrorist (139) according to UN .

Apparently these are social workers and freedom fighters according to some, so already this has been turned into a positive

 

[R3verse Swing]

Ok, so what was the purpose of you making this thread? Were you trying to highlight Pakistan has terrorists? Well, the NIA list shows India has quite a lot itself.

I'm curious as to what your point was...and please don't take 2 days to answer such a simple question chacha jee.

What would Kapil Dev do? Respond with "What is NIA?"

Classic move to cover-up accountability.

 

[barah_admi]

What would Kapil Dev do? Respond with "What is NIA?"

Classic move to cover-up accountability.

LOL yeah, that guy I responded to literally said the same "oh I dont know what NIA is"

 

[PakLFC]

J and K is de jure and de facto Indian territory. Just the other day 13 terrorists were killed. Dont know where you see India getting into trouble.

C'mon now! We are seeing the Kashmiri people running circles around your inept military every day.

 

[Thomaskutty]

Really isn't much point engaging with certain folks, who specialize in tangents and personal attacks, ficitional accusations of bangladeshi etc.

On the point you raise. I'm borderline atheist myself, but will definitely pray that my Pakistani brothers some day are able to obtain the human rights of self determination in their own country. They do seem to love that "self-determination" word. I hope they get to experience it firsthand. Maybe in another 10 or 20 years?

10-20 years maybe I hope so too but that is being optimistic.
You know .. in just a couple of months , Pakistan will likely be put on the FATF blacklist which will massively hit their foreign investment and export industry. I was hoping to see posters lamenting this and also the UN list , engaging in introspection and talking about future solutions for their own country.
Instead , all I learnt from this thread was that Hafiz Saeed is the Nelson Mandela of Pakistan and Dawood is the Mar Papa of Karachi .. where are the more thoughtful posters on this issue ?

 

[ahsan17]

india are producing most NO. of software engineers ,doctor etc etc and pakistan producing most no. of terrorist (139) according to UN .

So Pakistan has produced fewer than 139 engineers or doctors?

 

[English August]

C'mon now! We are seeing the Kashmiri people running circles around your inept military every day.

If that's the case, why do you guys keep telling us everyday that they're being butchered, their women raped, and their innocent kids killed?

Make up your mind, don't keep changing your narrative!

 

[PakLFC]

If that's the case, why do you guys keep telling us everyday that they're being butchered, their women raped, and their innocent kids killed?

Make up your mind, don't keep changing your narrative!

What you talking about? By "running circles" I mean giving your military an incredibly hard time. This does not mean the Kashmiris are not suffering all sorts of cruelty inflicted by your blood thirsty and genocidal so called army.

 

[English August]

What you talking about? By "running circles" I mean giving your military an incredibly hard time. This does not mean the Kashmiris are not suffering all sorts of cruelty inflicted by your blood thirsty and genocidal so called army.

The Army is there to protect India from terrorists who are running around in circles! I think you're just upset that Army has been able to kill some of these terrorists (but unfortunately lost 3 of their own in the process).

I agree that the bloodshed must stop. You could start by shutting down your training camps. Indian Army will go back to barracks.

 

[PakLFC]

The Army is there to protect India from terrorists who are running around in circles! I think you're just upset that Army has been able to kill some of these terrorists (but unfortunately lost 3 of their own in the process).

I agree that the bloodshed must stop. You could start by shutting down your training camps. Indian Army will go back to barracks.

Stop telling so much lies. Your army is openly killing innocent people under the pretence of "terrorists". They are also being killed as well. If you create trouble in Balochistan through Afghanistan then we will make you suffer in IoK as well that is disputed as it is. You have lost many more then three, can't you even count? I am not upset but the Kashmiris are. I am just a peace lover.

 

[Bosanquet]

Do you know what most common topic of discussion is on UK News/Social media these days? Cause and effect of terrorism. This might be shocking to you but it should not be so, given you are actually supportive of the Indian army killing innocent unarmed children in Kashmir. Heck you even tried to justify it. This puts you (and supporters of the Indian Army with respect to Kashmir) in a different league to a terrorist sympathiser.

For you to say most radicals have a Brit-Pak connections, you are wrong. You are simply following the media narrative. Go look up the IRA. They have no connection with Pakistan, yet have killed MORE people than Islamic terrorism spanning the last 40 years in the UK.

People are asking why do Terrorists target the UK. Be it, the IRA of the 70s, 80s, 90s, ISIS, or some lone wolf. A recent case in UK court found that the Parson Green bombing was not religious motivated, but was a case of revenge. This means that the case was not one of religious terrorism.

People in the UK are trying to understand what motivates terrorism.

It is no surprise that attacks in the West have increased since Iraq 2003.

If people like you think discussing cause and effect is akin to sympathising with terrorists, then you fit the typical stereotype of an Indian worldwide - ignorant, poor, uneducated, and desperate - without wanting to imply anything, other than you most certainly support/justify the murder of innocent children in Kashmir.

While scrolling through this rather blatantly provocative thread (which seems to have achieved it's aim of attracting the expected backlash) I was struck by this particular comment. I claim no great expertise on the terrible situation in Kashmir but I have lived, studied, worked & taught in London for most of my life. I have an interest in community & ethnic issues (my wife is Bengali) including education, achievement, wealth etc. I also happen to know many dozens of ethnic Bangladeshis, Indians , Pakistanis (plus Africans, Caribbeans, etc) as friends , colleagues, students, clients and so forth.
It is my experience, backed up by the national statistics, that the Indians are the best educated & highest earning of all the immigrant communities in UK. References - [Ethnicity, deprivation and educational achievement at age 16 in England: trends over time; June 2015, Dept. of Education] This study conducted by Prof S Strand, showed that Indian & Chinese students had easily the highest rates of A-C grades in 5 subjects. Actually far higher than the white majority. Unfortunately the ethnic Black students & Pakistanis were the lowest achievers but they also showed the most improvement.
As for wealth - in a recent study by the Resolution think tank reported in the Guardian on 7th August last year, it was stated that Pakistani & Bangladeshi families earned £8,700 less per year than the average white household. Black Africans earned about £5,600 less, while ethnic Indians earned almost exactly the same as the white community.
My personal experience does not count for much, so all I will say is that all of the Indians I meet appear to be graduates (lot's of doctors & IT people) in good jobs or training.
So, I have to conclude that the final paragraph about the stereotype of indians is just a gratuitious insult which is totally disproven by the facts - at least in England. The same is also the case in USA where if anything the Indian community are even better educated and wealthier.
Oh and the bit about the common topic of discussion nowadays in UK? The only thing my friends , family & I have been discussing lately are the Skripals, Russia, Novichoks & Boris Johnson! That's only just taken over our lives from the disaster that the impending Brexit is going to cause.

 

[R3verse Swing]

While scrolling through this rather blatantly provocative thread (which seems to have achieved it's aim of attracting the expected backlash) I was struck by this particular comment. I claim no great expertise on the terrible situation in Kashmir but I have lived, studied, worked & taught in London for most of my life. I have an interest in community & ethnic issues (my wife is Bengali) including education, achievement, wealth etc. I also happen to know many dozens of ethnic Bangladeshis, Indians , Pakistanis (plus Africans, Caribbeans, etc) as friends , colleagues, students, clients and so forth.
It is my experience, backed up by the national statistics, that the Indians are the best educated & highest earning of all the immigrant communities in UK. References - [Ethnicity, deprivation and educational achievement at age 16 in England: trends over time; June 2015, Dept. of Education] This study conducted by Prof S Strand, showed that Indian & Chinese students had easily the highest rates of A-C grades in 5 subjects. Actually far higher than the white majority. Unfortunately the ethnic Black students & Pakistanis were the lowest achievers but they also showed the most improvement.
As for wealth - in a recent study by the Resolution think tank reported in the Guardian on 7th August last year, it was stated that Pakistani & Bangladeshi families earned £8,700 less per year than the average white household. Black Africans earned about £5,600 less, while ethnic Indians earned almost exactly the same as the white community.
My personal experience does not count for much, so all I will say is that all of the Indians I meet appear to be graduates (lot's of doctors & IT people) in good jobs or training.
So, I have to conclude that the final paragraph about the stereotype of indians is just a gratuitious insult which is totally disproven by the facts - at least in England. The same is also the case in USA where if anything the Indian community are even better educated and wealthier.
Oh and the bit about the common topic of discussion nowadays in UK? The only thing my friends , family & I have been discussing lately are the Skripals, Russia, Novichoks & Boris Johnson! That's only just taken over our lives from the disaster that the impending Brexit is going to cause.

Oh my, look at this. You are trying to defend the Indian stereotype by citing numbers again, but quite happy to subscribe to the Pakistani stereotype as per this thread by Indians. Not really a shock, but doesn't surprise me the bulk of my post was ignored. Why not address the other issues such as the NIA list which lists Indian terrorists I wonder? That's right, does not fit the Indian stereotype or maintain the Pakistan stereotype.

Your friends and family are discussing flavour of the month news, there is more pertinent news related to Terrorism being discussed everyday, reported in Broadsheets, Social Media, News sites, and Radio.