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Vernon Philander Discussion Thread

I wonder if the way to tackle Vern might be to attack him. Perhaps he could be knocked off his game.

As it is players seem like sitting ducks when they try to defend him or see him off.
 
Wait till he bowls to Hafeez and company in UAE before calling him great. Remember what happened to Steyn
 
wrongun said:
I wonder if the way to tackle Vern might be to attack him. Perhaps he could be knocked off his game.

As it is players seem like sitting ducks when they try to defend him or see him off.
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I think that NZ tried that this innings as he was going for 4+ per over. Doesn't seem to have worked - lots of top edges, LBWs etc. As far as I can tell, getting outside the line of off-stump seems to work well against him.
Sir_Afridi said:
Wait till he bowls to Hafeez and company in UAE before calling him great. Remember what happened to Steyn
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obvious-troll.jpg
 
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What an explosive career so far

51 wickets in only his 7th test (the second fastest) at a mind-boggling average of 13.58 and SR 24.5, 5wI x6, 10wM x2 (already)
 
Philander seems to have excellent control and also comes across as an intelligent bowler where he is prepared to work away at batsmen and set them up with discaplined bowling and then snare them into a trap.

Will be intresting to see how he goes against a strong South Africa "A" batting line up this summer.
 
Philander will meet hhis master who will throw him off his game, just wait when he bowls on dustbowls
 
Amjid Javed said:
Philander seems to have excellent control and also comes across as an intelligent bowler where he is prepared to work away at batsmen and set them up with discaplined bowling and then snare them into a trap.

Will be intresting to see how he goes against a strong South Africa "A" batting line up this summer.
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you are wicked
 
Comment on Cricinfo:
What few people have picked up upon is that while Philander was the 2nd fastest to 50 wickets in terms of matches played or innings bowled in, he is by some way the quickest to 50 wickets in terms of balls bowled, reaching it almost 500 balls (or 83 overs) quicker than anyone else
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http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci-icc/content/current/story/559290.html

Can anyone verify this? It's an astonishing achievement if true.
 
seems out of sorts today, seam and swing just not there like there was in SA and NZ.

actually most of the South Africa bowling line up looks out of sorts
 
Only bowled 6 overs. The swing and movement is there - saw one ball to Trott swing away in the air, and come back in off the seam.
 
Jo_Don said:
Only bowled 6 overs. The swing and movement is there - saw one ball to Trott swing away in the air, and come back in off the seam.
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but overall not tight seam and swing spell as we are used to seeing from him
 
Well 14 is clearly a very misleading bowling average in relation to his ability anyway. Looked like a poor man's McGrath or Asif to me, two bowlers that always gave us problems from the first morning. But he could still have a good series (wickets at 20s) if we don't stay patient with him.
 
James said:
Well 14 is clearly a very misleading bowling average in relation to his ability anyway. Looked like a poor man's McGrath or Asif to me, two bowlers that always gave us problems from the first morning. But he could still have a good series (wickets at 20s) if we don't stay patient with him.
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this. and his action seems very awkward....looks too plump for a fast bowler as well....don't rate him...he has played on tracks with extravagant movement and pace hence his figures....will be exposed on less helpful tracks
 
To be quite honest i think most bowlers would struggle on this sort of surface. People shouldnt be to quick to write of certain bowlers. i think philander will cause problems for england during the series.
 
One bad day does not mean anything , You need to bowl full most of the time in england to be successful unless you are harmison.
 
Lol @ the knee jerk reactions, with players being judged after one day.
 
Philander hasnt been as effective on this tour thus far as he has been in the past

Is it the flat pitches, english batters or is he just not as good as his stats suggested?
 
He has bowled real well in my view. Stats aren't everything. People need to realise that.
 
First time i am seeing him bowl live, how the heck did he get so manu wickets....
He looks an average bowler, bowls around 80 mph.

with time that freaky average will go up.
 
Philander is a okay sort of bowler, he is not a great , or Asif / MGrath. Over the years his average would go up as he plays more games. I guess he would end with a an average of 30 plus. by the time he plays 35 - 40 test.
 
Zaz said:
Philander hasnt been as effective on this tour thus far as he has been in the past

Is it the flat pitches, english batters or is he just not as good as his stats suggested?
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A combination of the three.

In fairness nobody with half a brain expected him to maintain a sub-20 bowling average.
 
South Africa, with Morkel, Steyn and Philander being fit will remain #1 for a long, long time imo.
 
Inziquicksingle said:
South Africa, with Morkel, Steyn and Philander being fit will remain #1 for a long, long time imo.
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They said the same about Anderson, Broad, Bresnan, Tremlett, Finn. :))




Fine bowler nonetheless, also showed grit with the bat.
 
Steyn and Morne have been better throughout most of the series. Brilliant match for Vernon here though.
 
freelance_cricketer said:
They said the same about Anderson, Broad, Bresnan, Tremlett, Finn. :))




Fine bowler nonetheless, also showed grit with the bat.
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Who actually said that though? The English media and fans mostly!!! That was said with the heart and not the head!! All the signs were there before the Saffers waded across the oceans to knock the poms off their "self proclaimed lofty pedestal."

Our seamers are better. Our batters are better. Our tail is better. We are better balanced. Was all "self pumping stuff" to try and deny the obvious!

How dare SA send a team to England after a "ski trip" with little or no preparation game time. England need a challenge, this Saffer side will be under-cooked and will be easily beaten. Who actually believed such rubbish? The English team have been outclassed by, man for man, a better team. Plain and simple.
 
Philander may not have torn up any trees in this series but hes had a knack of picking up crucial wickets when ever its been needed. Hes knock over both strauss and Cook in this inns taking place. He will need to work on his game on more placid surfaces but he does have the quality to become a very good test bowler.
 
Even a bowler the caliber of mcgrath was averaging 30 plus in his first two years. Give philander time, IMO he will average less than 25.
 
hhhhdmt said:
Even a bowler the caliber of mcgrath was averaging 30 plus in his first two years. Give philander time, IMO he will average less than 25.
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I'd take an average of 25. He's pretty capable with the bat too.
 
He's been named South African sportsman of the year.

Congratulations to him.
 
Saj said:
He's been named South African sportsman of the year.

Congratulations to him.
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That award should have been given to Hashim Amla. Both these players have had terrific performances but Amla performed in South Africa's biggest test of the year.

Plus, Amla performed in atleast two formats, Philander, as of now is a test specialist.

Congrats to Philander anyways, a great in the making.
 
9 and counting for Philander at Cape Town. Fantastic bowler.
 
That average of 49 on roads in Australia has an ER of under 3. So even if he wasn't taking wickets, he kept it tight. Superb bowler!
 
Philander has shown that bowling on offstump is the way to go. if the ball does anything. your out.
 
On the way to becoming an all time great bowler. People say it's only in South Africa but why don't we see other seamers having the same success?

Facing Philander in these conditions is the hardest challenge in cricket today. Averages 16 overall and 76% of his wickets are top order compared to 68% from someone like Steyn. Phenomenal and he does it bowling at 80mph.
 
its because he is South African. The same reason people discount kallis the bowler. if he such a minnow basher why aint there people with similar stats as him?
 
Philtrundler doesn't bother to play limited overs for South Africa but is quite happy to make money in the Caribbean Premier League.

LOL.

He did well in the last game so perhaps South Africa could possibly force him into playing against Pakistan in UAE.

But three trundlers in one lineup that too in UAE is overkill (Tsotsobe and Kleinveldt the other two).

and if Steyn continues to bowl like Sami in UAE, problems are piling up for SA.

Our flat track bullies must be licking their lips :hafeez :nasir

Can't wait for the series to start :ajmal
 
Mamoon_Ghaffar said:
Philtrundler doesn't bother to play limited overs for South Africa but is quite happy to make money in the Caribbean Premier League.

LOL.

He did well in the last game so perhaps South Africa could possibly force him into playing against Pakistan in UAE.

But three trundlers in one lineup that too in UAE is overkill (Tsotsobe and Kleinveldt the other two).

and if Steyn continues to bowl like Sami in UAE, problems are piling up for SA.

Our flat track bullies must be licking their lips :hafeez :nasir

Can't wait for the series to start :ajmal
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Is it because he does not play or he does not get selected?
 
So far wicket-less against an inept batting lineup.

Looks like the trundling has started :nehra
 
IndianWillow said:
Is it because he does not play or he does not get selected?
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South Africa have dished out some utter dross bowlers in limited overs recently so I find it very hard to believe they wouldn't have looked at Philander.
 
So close to getting that no.1 ranking Steyn's had for 3 years. Only 3 points away. Next match could do it.
 
my utmost respect for Philander. I, like most of other people, expected him to struggle in UAE heat but he has held his own. He may not have similar kind of success (they dont roll over at 40 runs here) but he has proved his mettle and showed increased adaptability in the 2nd innings.

Dubai gets worse, lets see how he copes with that :)
 
Good exhibition of trundling today :nehra

Turns into Shahadat Hossain at the sight of Australian batsmen :asif

Although he did rattle them at home 3 years ago when the sky wasn't blue :23:

Let's see if he can beat his average of 50 this time around.

:shakib
 
Mamoon said:
Although he did rattle them at home 3 years ago when the sky wasn't blue :23:
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Unlike Steyn, Vern depends on conditions.

He was averaging 13 in SA before the Indian tour. It has been going up but he shouldn't average 50+ in any series in SA. Pitch does enough in SA. Even this pitch was doing enough.
 
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He's not gonna be remembered in history because he is very boring and doesn't allure the crowd. No buzz. He is just a robot who does what has to be done with no innovation and creativity.
 
Buffet said:
Unlike Steyn, Vern depends on conditions.

He was averaging 13 in SA before the Indian tour. It's has been going up but he shouldn't average 50+ in any series in SA. Pitch does enough in SA. Even this pitch was doing enough.
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His average flatters him.

He's a sub 26/27 average bowler because of his dependence on conditions (performance in UAE doesn't count because he was bowling to Pakistani batsmen who make Zimbabwe trundlers look quality).

Ryan Harris is much better.
 
Mamoon said:
He's not gonna be remembered in history because he is very boring and doesn't allure the crowd. No buzz. He is just a robot who does what has to be done with no innovation and creativity.
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Everything may be true but you know what. If he can end his career with an average of 22-23 with 250 wickets, he won't be forgotten. Bowlers job is still to take wickets cheaply and help their teams win games. He does that very often.

Mamoon said:
Ryan Harris is much better.
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Harris sure depends less on bowling conditions and I do count him among the top 3 bowlers right now. Let this whole series finish to see how Vern does.
 
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Buffet said:
Unlike Steyn, Vern depends on conditions.

He was averaging 13 in SA before the Indian tour. It has been going up but he shouldn't average 50+ in any series in SA. Pitch does enough in SA. Even this pitch was doing enough.
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At his pace, he will be dependent on the conditions. Raring to see Philander play in India, it will be one big test for him.
 
Buffet said:
Everything may be true but you know what. If he can end his career with an average of 22-23 with 250 wickets, he won't be forgotten. Bowlers job is still to take wickets cheaply and help their team win games. He does that very often.
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Yeah but doesn't deserve to average that low. That's ATG category and reserved for bowlers who excel regardless of external factors.
 
Mamoon said:
Yeah but doesn't deserve to average that low. That's ATG category and reserved for bowlers who excel regardless of external factors.
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Well, average is just average. Many batsmen average around 50 or above but they don't get an ATG tag due to only performing well in certain conditions. Same goes for bowlers but we are often lenient with bowlers.

IndianWillow said:
At his pace, he will be dependent on the conditions. Raring to see Philander play in India, it will be one big test for him.
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Hopefully, it's not 2 tests. SA should pay 3-4 tests in India and then it will be appropriate to judge Vern as far as performance in India goes. I think he will be lot less effective unless Indians produce surprising pitches. They have done it few times.
 
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Vernon Philander

Philanders average is so low because he plays on helpful home tracks against poor quality batsmen there are very few great batsmen in international cricket and most of them play for SA at his pace he will never be a danger on flat tracks if he got the chance to face his own batsmen he'd get an epic phainta
 
Wait until the series has been completed before you lay into him. He is a very skilful bowler.
 
Excellent bowler and Asif only beats him due to his height which allowed him to generate more bounce.

Great to sit back and watch him apply his trade.
 
Vern is not a swing bowler he is a seam bowler so he doesn't need overcast gray conditions or whatever.. yes he needs some assistance from the pitch but he has the skills to utilize the assistance.
 
Another classic display of trundling :shakib

Australia have burst his bubble for the second consecutive series.
 
He may have trundled his way to fastest 100 wickets in SA history, but is nothing more than a B grade bowler who hits good lengths and when the conditions favor him, can really test batsmen with shoddy technique and temperament.

On an all time scale, I will not put him ahead of Anderson who has at some point of his career, delivered for England in every country he has played in. His overall record in Australia is poor but he was brilliant there in 2010-2011. Did quite well in India and Sri Lanka as well recently.

Looks over the hill now. Wasn't at his best in the last English summer as well in spite of quality spells.

Philander at the moment is a little better but he has a long way to go and is largely unproven.
 
What gets him his wickets is his line and length as well as patience. When the ball gets older, he needs to work out how to get reverse swing or at least develop a good yorker.
 
He doesn't have steyns pace so naturally will struggle on flat pitches and against aggressive batsmen.
 
He hadn't played on enough flat pitches to work out a plan that will be successful for him.
 
To state the obvious, he needs a green track to succeed.
 
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