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[VIDEO] Misbah-ul-Haq raises doubts about Pakistan's top position in ICC's ODI Team Rankings

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Saj

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Ouch!

Misbah-ul-Haq “New Zealand & Australia came to Pakistan with their C & D teams. We beat them and our ranking improved. Then we beat the likes of West Indies. We reached the number one ranking and were delighted but we should look at the actual facts that Australia’s C team won one match against us and we only won one match convincingly against them. Then New Zealand’s almost D team came and the matches were competitive. We should realise and look at where we realistically stand as our best eleven against the opposition 3rd tier players are playing and still they are getting so close to beating us. Rankings doesn’t matter as when you play against the opposition top teams they will have an edge.



View attachment Misbah.mp4
 
Agree with misbah 100%. Everyone was so happy about no 1 rankings. NZ D team managed to beat us in the 5th odi, a no 1 team should be white washing.

Same with Aus D team, they shouldn't get one victory.

Every time pakistan faces a 1st string side from SENA or India, Unless its a t20 or one off, we get butchered badly.

If SENA and India 1st string plays against us 9 out of 10 matches they'll win.
 
I agree with Misbah. We did beat the B-teams and our ranking improved but in reality, we might be losing every match against a top tier team 90 percent of the time.
 
Agreed. Under Misbah's leadership, the so-called No.1 TEST team for 2 weeks was decimated in Australia.
 
Misbah is right but expect this thread to be populated by the usual anti Misbah crowd.
 
This is interesting 😄, when Misbah of all people admits the massive facade that is the modern loi rankings, that puts a lot of people in embarrassing situation. In general it's the Misbah fans who have celebrated these recent ranking phenomenas & cursed anyone who didn't agree, because it was kind of reminiscent of that no 1 test ranking which was also seen as fluke by many since it had lasted as much time as one takes to finish a cup of tea. Now that Misbah himself has opened the pandora box it also puts other former cricketers in difficult position because none of them wanted to openly admit this (out of fear of massive backlash). If Pak unfortunately continues the trade of performing against minnows & crashing against top dogs in the world cup then many more people will come forward & criticize this ranking/milestone based toxic culture that has been growing rapidly in last 3 years.
 
Does anybody know where was Pakistan's ODI generally ranked when Misbah was captain himself? Just curious.
 
Saj said:
Ouch!

Misbah-ul-Haq “New Zealand & Australia came to Pakistan with their C & D teams. We beat them and our ranking improved. Then we beat the likes of West Indies. We reached the number one ranking and were delighted but we should look at the actual facts that Australia’s C team won one match against us and we only won one match convincingly against them. Then New Zealand’s almost D team came and the matches were competitive. We should realise and look at where we realistically stand as our best eleven against the opposition 3rd tier players are playing and still they are getting so close to beating us. Rankings doesn’t matter as when you play against the opposition top teams they will have an edge.
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An oversimplified and pessimistic analysis prevails here. If we assume that all teams, except Pakistan, consistently field their weaker "C" and "D" teams, then the handicap should be uniform. It's improbable that top teams strategically weaken their line-ups only against Pakistan while deploying their best players against other opponents.

The example cited is the New Zealand series, where players like Young, Mitchell, Latham, Rachin, Henry, Chapman, Nicholas, Milne, Sodhi, and Henry represented the team. This lineup, while missing key players such as Williamson, Southee, and Boult, still constitutes a solid B+ team. Notably, these absent players were also missing during the ODI series against India.
 
Thank you for stating the obvious Misbah
 
Nikhil_cric said:
Lol. He mentioned every ODI series after he lost head coach role.

Didn't have the guts to point out that under his coaching , PAK actually got whitewashed by England D which was actually worse.

Can't believe this guy has fans . :inti
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He is no discrediting pakistan wins.

He was talking about fans going gaga over no. 1 rank.

Plus he said that against weaker aides pakistan was not dominating instead being competative
 
We wouldn't be playing main round if other teams sent their main players.
 
I remember Sri Lanka's so called "B/C" team that visited us for T20's in 2019. Whitewashed us 3-0 and we haven't beaten SL at all since then and those players have become stars.

Pak vs Aus series still had most of their batsmen playing and some bowlers missing but Pakistan had the same as they were using spinners like Ifti & Khushdil then as Shadab/Nawaz were missing.

Pakistan have beaten NZ full strength side in WC how many times in a row now? They also barely lost to full strength NZ 2-1 earlier in 2023 too with NZ needing a blinders innings from Phillips to win it.

At the end of the day, you can only play the opposition in front of you and for the most part, Pakistan have played well over the last few years barring the reserve day vs India which has changed perceptions a lot. Ultimately, no one is clinging to the rankings like they are life & death - just enjoy having Pakistan ranked #1 in ODI's considering it never happens. It's not like anyone is thinking they are favorite's in this tournament as a result of it, heck most people don't even have them in the top 4.
 
Nasty Naz said:
I remember Sri Lanka's so called "B/C" team that visited us for T20's in 2019. Whitewashed us 3-0 and we haven't beaten SL at all since then and those players have become stars.

Pak vs Aus series still had most of their batsmen playing and some bowlers missing but Pakistan had the same as they were using spinners like Ifti & Khushdil then as Shadab/Nawaz were missing.

Pakistan have beaten NZ full strength side in WC how many times in a row now? They also barely lost to full strength NZ 2-1 earlier in 2023 too with NZ needing a blinders innings from Phillips to win it.

At the end of the day, you can only play the opposition in front of you and for the most part, Pakistan have played well over the last few years barring the reserve day vs India which has changed perceptions a lot. Ultimately, no one is clinging to the rankings like they are life & death - just enjoy having Pakistan ranked #1 in ODI's considering it never happens. It's not like anyone is thinking they are favorite's in this tournament as a result of it, heck most people don't even have them in the top 4.
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You can only play what’s in front of you, but don’t be delusional to believe the rankings.

But these rankings have had another effect and a very negative one. It breeds obsession for these rankings and in order to chase the rankings, you end up playing your best team every game. You don’t groom anyone and put extra workload on your bowlers.

As a result, we have one of your best bowlers injured for the biggest ODI tournament for 4 years and the other one looks fatigued and you’re struggling to find a decent batting line up.
 
1696697986265.png


Bit of background:

A discussion was going on at A Sports show called the Pavilion. Fakhar e Alam asked that with so many Chairmans coming and go along with the Chief Selector, dont alot of players get lost in the system. Than he gave an example of Saud Shakil that who got a debut than got dropped afterwards in 2021.

Misbah answered that this happens, he said that when he was at helm of things, Saud Shakil was part of the plans till the time Rameez Raja told Misbah not to show up for work.

Fakhar than suggested that shouldn't the incoming Chief Selector contact the previous party and ask him about the players he had short listed and who should play.

Misbah said yes a succession plan should exists, but Misbah and Fakhar both agreed that for such a thing to take place the incoming selector needs to remove his ego first to actually contact the previous person.

Anyways, Mohammad Wasim out of no where took offence, and he tweeted this. No one really cared before, but now everyone will know that it was Mohammad Wasim who came in after Misbah
 
Pavilion is such an entertaining and enlightening show. Malik especially has quite an impressive knowledge.
 
Don't know why they chose Moin Khan of all people, he adds nothing of value and only says the most obvious basic things.
 
Mohd Wasim was a disastrous dummy CS. Did nothing to challenge Babars selections.
 
He's right, yes we were ranked #1 for a bit but could anyone honestly say we were the best ODI team in the world?
 
True that we were having competitive games against C/D teams of opposition. Our spinners are really average, and have been for a long time. Our batsmen can’t be trusted to chase down big scores. It’s a very average team atm and on paper shouldn’t make the top 4 of the World Cup. I hope I’m wrong, but I can see hasan ali and the spinners getting smashed in some of these matches v the top teams.

These batting friendly pitches is where the big players stand up, and batting wise we are levels below other top teams. We are essentially playing with 2 wicket taking bowlers in shaheen and haris, that alone can’t win a World Cup.
 
shokz1408 said:
True that we were having competitive games against C/D teams of opposition. Our spinners are really average, and have been for a long time. Our batsmen can’t be trusted to chase down big scores. It’s a very average team atm and on paper shouldn’t make the top 4 of the World Cup. I hope I’m wrong, but I can see hasan ali and the spinners getting smashed in some of these matches v the top teams.

These batting friendly pitches is where the big players stand up, and batting wise we are levels below other top teams. We are essentially playing with 2 wicket taking bowlers in shaheen and haris, that alone can’t win a World Cup.
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Can someone define what is an A team, what is a B team, and so forth.

Young, Mitchell, Latham, Rachin, Henry, Chapman, Nicholas, Milne, and Sodhi formed the NZ team that lost 4-1 to Pakistan. 8 of these players started in NZ first 11 vs Eng in the WC(Milne is injured).
 
What the?

Did Misbah have doubts of Pakistan's ranking or the ranking algorithm when he was Captain?

We all know the drill, when Pakistan tops the rankings, either the ranking are meaningless, or the opposition was weak.

You can only play what is infront of you.

I mean if haters have a problem playing against B,C,D teams, then spare a thought for teams who use the home advantage to bolster rank points.
 
Classic example is Asian games. Those are international games. Although it is only Pakistan B steam they lost to Afghanistan and Bangladesh. Their rankings will be impacted.
 
Technics 1210 said:
What the?

Did Misbah have doubts of Pakistan's ranking or the ranking algorithm when he was Captain?

We all know the drill, when Pakistan tops the rankings, either the ranking are meaningless, or the opposition was weak.

You can only play what is infront of you.

I mean if haters have a problem playing against B,C,D teams, then spare a thought for teams who use the home advantage to bolster rank points.
Click to expand...
Nope he doesn’t. The Australia test side his team beat in the UAE 2-0 to reach no1 was a legit B team as Australia was redeveloping a team. No mention of that.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
Classic example is Asian games. Those are international games. Although it is only Pakistan B steam they lost to Afghanistan and Bangladesh. Their rankings will be impacted.
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It’s an oversimplification.
Like I posted above, 8 out of 11 in alleged NZ D played the opening game vs England at the WC. How is that possible? It makes no sense to me.
NZ sent their WC probables to Pak for practice in similar conditions.
 
India is no.1 ranked T20 side :) They have been for a while. I am not going to say INdia is the no.1 side in the world in T20.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
India is no.1 ranked T20 side :) They have been for a while. I am not going to say INdia is the no.1 side in the world in T20.
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well, you should. All rankings have biases/gaps, but it’s the best we have. The next best is an opinion or another flawed ranking.
 
Farabi said:
Can someone define what is an A team, what is a B team, and so forth.

Young, Mitchell, Latham, Rachin, Henry, Chapman, Nicholas, Milne, and Sodhi formed the NZ team that lost 4-1 to Pakistan. 8 of these players started in NZ first 11 vs Eng in the WC(Milne is injured).
Click to expand...

I don’t know about definitions but their star player/s were rested. It’s like when we lost to Afghanistan in the t20 series earlier this year, there’s a big difference between playing a series whilst resting 3 main players in Babar, Rizwan and Shaheen.

Definitions apart, if 2-3 match winners are rested for a series that’s significant. Whatever letter you want to use, irrelevant, just not their go to playing 11 without their star players.
 
shokz1408 said:
I don’t know about definitions but their star player/s were rested. It’s like when we lost to Afghanistan in the t20 series earlier this year, there’s a big difference between playing a series whilst resting 3 main players in Babar, Rizwan and Shaheen.

Definitions apart, if 2-3 match winners are rested for a series that’s significant. Whatever letter you want to use, irrelevant, just not their go to playing 11 without their star players.
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This is where it starts to get complicated. The devil is always in the details.

Assuming the "star" players are Williamson, Boult and Southee. In the India-NZ ODI series, all 3 star NZ players were missing against India as well in Jan 2023.

Assuming the "star" players for India are Rohit, Kohli, and Pandya. They were all playing. There was no Boult and Southee available for NZ when Shubman scored a double hundred either.

Yet, no one downplays the victories. No one says India and Gill enjoyed beating NZ D. Why is this logic reserved for Pakistan?

www.espncricinfo.com

IND vs NZ, New Zealand in India 2022/23, 1st ODI at Hyderabad, January 18, 2023 - Full Scorecard

Get cricket scorecard of 1st ODI, IND vs NZ, New Zealand in India 2022/23 at Rajiv Gandhi International Stadium, Uppal, Hyderabad dated January 18, 2023.
www.espncricinfo.com www.espncricinfo.com
 
Technics 1210 said:
What the?

Did Misbah have doubts of Pakistan's ranking or the ranking algorithm when he was Captain?

We all know the drill, when Pakistan tops the rankings, either the ranking are meaningless, or the opposition was weak.

You can only play what is infront of you.

I mean if haters have a problem playing against B,C,D teams, then spare a thought for teams who use the home advantage to bolster rank points.
Click to expand...

I don't think he's doubting the rankings, just down playing the favourites tag. Misbah is a realist and most of his success is due to accurately reading a situation.
 
He did rightly so!

Now look our current standing in major events, which shows that living as the so called top ranked side and believing everything is going well was a misguided perspective.
 
Saj said:
Ouch!

Misbah-ul-Haq “New Zealand & Australia came to Pakistan with their C & D teams. We beat them and our ranking improved. Then we beat the likes of West Indies. We reached the number one ranking and were delighted but we should look at the actual facts that Australia’s C team won one match against us and we only won one match convincingly against them. Then New Zealand’s almost D team came and the matches were competitive. We should realise and look at where we realistically stand as our best eleven against the opposition 3rd tier players are playing and still they are getting so close to beating us. Rankings doesn’t matter as when you play against the opposition top teams they will have an edge.



View attachment 137094
Click to expand...

We lost 3-0 to a Sri Lanka C team when he was the coach.

Was made captain of the ODI team that beat the invincible Sri Lanka of 2011 at their HOME ground and ended Australia's 25 odd match unbeaten streak in WORLD CUPS. Topped the Group as well in 2011.

When he left in 2015, we were ranked 9th in ODI and were to miss out qualifying for the 2017 Champions Trophy.

I have lived through this pathetic excuse of a cricketers time in our team. It's a PITY that such people are now commenting on our current team where all players are better than him as cricketers.
 
Saj said:
Ouch!

Misbah-ul-Haq “New Zealand & Australia came to Pakistan with their C & D teams. We beat them and our ranking improved. Then we beat the likes of West Indies. We reached the number one ranking and were delighted but we should look at the actual facts that Australia’s C team won one match against us and we only won one match convincingly against them. Then New Zealand’s almost D team came and the matches were competitive. We should realise and look at where we realistically stand as our best eleven against the opposition 3rd tier players are playing and still they are getting so close to beating us. Rankings doesn’t matter as when you play against the opposition top teams they will have an edge.



View attachment 137094
Click to expand...
Look who is talking , he himself tried to raise Pakistan's test ranking by making 3rd class wickets in UAE and utilizing two chukers. When he took the same team to Australia , NZl and SA, team suffered a white wash everywhere.
 
Cricket Warrior said:
He did rightly so!

Now look our current standing in major events, which shows that living as the so called top ranked side and believing everything is going well was a misguided perspective.
Click to expand...
We just made the T20 World Cup final and are on track to make the semi finals?
 
The truth is that the ICC Rankings a teams overall performance over time. Most people are just angry that the ICC rankings do not measure what they want. They are not predictive, necessarily, of who will win the World Cup, but usually a top 3 ranked side almost always wins.

People on this forum think that the ICC rankings should measure something entirely different and then get mad just because it doesn’t.
 
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