[VIDEO] Shocking footage shows mob beating a man inside a shop in Islamabad!

[TalentSpotterPk]

FIR has been launched against the boy who was beaten up

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[Moh@n]

For what reason?

 

[The_KING]

The beauty of Pakistan and my parents force me to go to this country every year. If I have it my way, I would never visit Pakistan.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

The beauty of Pakistan and my parents force me to go to this country every year. If I have it my way, I would never visit Pakistan.

Do they want you to remain in touch with your roots and not forget the soil ?

 

[Pakistanian]

Pakistanis have a bad temper and can even kill anybody if they curse their family members (especially female relatives) or if they say anything some people might think is against Islam or against their ethnicity. People are just so serious over there, they need to chill the heck out.

 

[Syed1]

The beauty of Pakistan and my parents force me to go to this country every year. If I have it my way, I would never visit Pakistan.

How about you remove that Pakistan flag then and stop visiting a website name PAKPASSION, or are your parents also forcing you to do that?

 

[in_cutter]

Pakistanis have a bad temper and can even kill anybody if they curse their family members (especially female relatives) or if they say anything some people might think is against Islam or against their ethnicity. People are just so serious over there, they need to chill the heck out.

Yea. Bad temper is exclusive to Pakistanis

 

[Pakistanian]

Yea. Bad temper is exclusive to Pakistanis

Getting mad enough at people to beat them up, even kill them just cause they cussed out a family member, or disagreed with your ethnicity/community/political group or religious is exclusive to tribal and ignorant societies in South Asia and the middle east.

Let's not forget what happened to Qandeel Baloch.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

Getting mad enough at people to beat them up, even kill them just cause they cussed out a family member, or disagreed with your ethnicity/community/political group or religious is exclusive to tribal and ignorant societies in South Asia and the middle east.

Let's not forget what happened to Qandeel Baloch.

If rule of law of America & Pakistan is interchanged than there will be no change on either side ?

 

[miandadrules]

If rule of law of America & Pakistan is interchanged than there will be no change on either side ?

Rule of law is one aspect.

But you can't discount the impact of social reform which has never flourished in Pakistan.

 

[Pakistanian]

If rule of law of America & Pakistan is interchanged than there will be no change on either side ?

Attidudes and mindsets are very different, people here are just chilled out (not everybody of course)

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

Rule of law is one aspect.

But you can't discount the impact of social reform which has never flourished in Pakistan.

I think Rule of law is the main issue. Yes Social reform is needed aswell.


Human beings are not much different in their makeup overall. What stops people from doing these things in my view is either :


1. Fear of God (Religion)

or

2. Fear of Law of land taking it's course.



Most people do these acts because they think that they will get away with it and in 90 % cases this is exactly what happens.


I have been fortunate to be taught by some great teacher's in Pakistan. One of those great people was Mr.Aslam who taught me Chemistry. He was an excellent teacher. He used to say that in our country we make fun of teacher's and religious clerics the most and ridicule them the most.


Well in my view the Moulvi gets all the hate due to his Acts and a reputation worth hundreds of years but with every passing day our society is degrading the status of Teachers needlessly.


In my view in a country like Pakistan Teachers and Religious Leaders/Clerics are needed to play a role in social reform but the muslim clergy is playing massive negative role.


Still I would say that if there is rule of law than these incidents will do down atleast 70 - 80 %.

 

[Moiza]

Well in my view the Moulvi gets all the hate due to his Acts and a reputation worth hundreds of years but with every passing day our society is degrading the status of Teachers needlessly.

.

THIS!

If people not getting good education and not growing up in a good environment were abusing the teachers then it would be understandable but even the people who grow up in the best of conditions have 0 respect for teachers. I have a few friends who literally refer to their teacher using cuss words. These teachers are not your typical govt school teacher but an A levels teacher who treats you very good. Honestly I have absolutely 0 clue why this is happening.

Thank God I always respected my teahcers and even after 2 years I still talk to my A levels teachers every month or so, we are more like friends. Respecting your teachers really makes your educational experience a very enjoyable one.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

THIS!

If people not getting good education and not growing up in a good environment were abusing the teachers then it would be understandable but even the people who grow up in the best of conditions have 0 respect for teachers. I have a few friends who literally refer to their teacher using cuss words. These teachers are not your typical govt school teacher but an A levels teacher who treats you very good. Honestly I have absolutely 0 clue why this is happening.

Thank God I always respected my teahcers and even after 2 years I still talk to my A levels teachers every month or so, we are more like friends. Respecting your teachers really makes your educational experience a very enjoyable one.

Well to be honest your upbringing is very important both through your parents and through your religious community. That plays a major role.


To be honest I have also experienced teachers with bad attitude or who were not professional enough or who were not well equipped or did not possess the art of teaching so naturally one doesn't like them but I was taught respect of teachers from my parents and my religious association be it be " ittefaal " level or " khaadim " level so alhamdoulillah it made me distinct in this way that I never gave a name to any of my teacher and never abused them in my circle. Because for me indulging in such things is

A. Unethical/Immoral

B. Anti-Islamic


while very sorry to say major chunk of good aswell as bad students (academically) were involved in these acts at all levels ie School, College & University.


I studied in a Missionary School and let me admit that the teacher who taught us major chunk of " Good Manners " was a Christian and foreigner who had come to Pakistan for 1 year. May Allah bless her.

 

[Pakistanian]

Meh teachers shouldn't have special treatment, they should be respected like any other person in society. We're all equal but I understand us Pakistanis have such big fragile egos and love to have a hierarchy in place.

 

[Moiza]

Well to be honest your upbringing is very important both through your parents and through your religious community. That plays a major role.


To be honest I have also experienced teachers with bad attitude or who were not professional enough or who were not well equipped or did not possess the art of teaching so naturally one doesn't like them but I was taught respect of teachers from my parents and my religious association be it be " ittefaal " level or " khaadim " level so alhamdoulillah it made me distinct in this way that I never gave a name to any of my teacher and never abused them in my circle. Because for me indulging in such things is

A. Unethical/Immoral

B. Anti-Islamic


while very sorry to say major chunk of good aswell as bad students (academically) were involved in these acts at all levels ie School, College & University.


I studied in a Missionary School and let me admit that the teacher who taught us major chunk of " Good Manners " was a Christian and foreigner who had come to Pakistan for 1 year. May Allah bless her.

I too studied in a missionary school for 11 years. The nuns in our convent school came from Philippines and I swear they did a wonderful job in teaching manners and make you an overall good human being. I wish more schools can be like the missionary schools we have.

 

[Moiza]

Meh teachers shouldn't have special treatment, they should be respected like any other person in society. We're all equal but I understand us Pakistanis have such big fragile egos and love to have a hierarchy in place.

If you look at it that way then your parents too are like every other person in the society and they too should get the same respect.

 

[Abdullah719]

I too studied in a missionary school for 11 years. The nuns in our convent school came from Philippines and I swear they did a wonderful job in teaching manners and make you an overall good human being. I wish more schools can be like the missionary schools we have.

No offence but isn't that generally what parents do?

 

[The_KING]

How about you remove that Pakistan flag then and stop visiting a website name PAKPASSION, or are your parents also forcing you to do that?

I support Pakistan cricket team hence why I have that flag. I don't care much about the country

 

[Moiza]

No offence but isn't that generally what parents do?

If both you parents are working then you will probably be spending more time with your teachers than them. Like from the age of 5 to 18 I used wake up at 6.30 and leave for school around 7. I would come home at 2-2.30 after which I used to sleep and after waking up I used to play till maghrib. So for most children there are 3-5 hours which can be spent with the parents as compared to the 6-7 hours 5 days a week you spend with your teachers.

So you see although parents do play a very big role but in my opinion the teacher that teach you will shape the kind of person you turn out to be.

 

[miandadrules]

I think Rule of law is the main issue. Yes Social reform is needed aswell.


Human beings are not much different in their makeup overall. What stops people from doing these things in my view is either :


1. Fear of God (Religion)

or

2. Fear of Law of land taking it's course.



Most people do these acts because they think that they will get away with it and in 90 % cases this is exactly what happens.


I have been fortunate to be taught by some great teacher's in Pakistan. One of those great people was Mr.Aslam who taught me Chemistry. He was an excellent teacher. He used to say that in our country we make fun of teacher's and religious clerics the most and ridicule them the most.


Well in my view the Moulvi gets all the hate due to his Acts and a reputation worth hundreds of years but with every passing day our society is degrading the status of Teachers needlessly.


In my view in a country like Pakistan Teachers and Religious Leaders/Clerics are needed to play a role in social reform but the muslim clergy is playing massive negative role.


Still I would say that if there is rule of law than these incidents will do down atleast 70 - 80 %.

There is so much I disagree with in your post.

Firstly, it is a fallacy that it is a fear if God which stops people from committing crimes. There is absolutely no evidence to support this and is merely an authoritarian line which regurgitated by theologians to maintain their hegemony. In fact religion legitimises horrific actions by painting the non-believer as "morally inferior".

In countries like Pakistan such actions are committed because the perpetrators abrogate social responsibility something which is far less prevalent in more developed societies. Religion reinforces such behaviour, yet you are pushing for it to play an even greater role.

Without a doubt education is the key but the type of education is the most important issues. If teachers espouse dogma which reinforces the status quo and stifles free thought it is nothing but a cancer. In a country such as Pakistan where the line between Teacher and Maulvi is blurring with every passing second the distinction is becoming ever so difficult.

Change comes from the bottom up, not from the top down.

Once the citizens learn to value each other and respect the sanctity of each other's life, the rule of law will take care of it's self. It will never work the other way.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

There is so much I disagree with in your post.

Firstly, it is a fallacy that it is a fear if God which stops people from committing crimes. There is absolutely no evidence to support this and is merely an authoritarian line which regurgitated by theologians to maintain their hegemony. In fact religion legitimises horrific actions by painting the non-believer as "morally inferior".

In countries like Pakistan such actions are committed because the perpetrators abrogate social responsibility something which is far less prevalent in more developed societies. Religion reinforces such behaviour, yet you are pushing for it to play an even greater role.

Without a doubt education is the key but the type of education is the most important issues. If teachers espouse dogma which reinforces the status quo and stifles free thought it is nothing but a cancer. In a country such as Pakistan where the line between Teacher and Maulvi is blurring with every passing second the distinction is becoming ever so difficult.

Change comes from the bottom up, not from the top down.

Once the citizens learn to value each other and respect the sanctity of each other's life, the rule of law will take care of it's self. It will never work the other way.

What sort of evidence you need ? Scientific evidence ?


In a Country like Pakistan You cannot see the difference in action of different communities ? Do all of them act in similar ways in similar situations ?


I think you have lost hope because you have not come across examples of personal experiences around you that's why you are negating it.

For theologians to claim something than they have got to show those living examples/role models. If there are none than there theologies fall flat.

 

[Abdullah719]

If both you parents are working then you will probably be spending more time with your teachers than them. Like from the age of 5 to 18 I used wake up at 6.30 and leave for school around 7. I would come home at 2-2.30 after which I used to sleep and after waking up I used to play till maghrib. So for most children there are 3-5 hours which can be spent with the parents as compared to the 6-7 hours 5 days a week you spend with your teachers.

So you see although parents do play a very big role but in my opinion the teacher that teach you will shape the kind of person you turn out to be.

I can see where you're coming from, but I also had parents who were (mostly) both working.

I'd say that teachers also had an impact but parents had a much larger effect - it does depend on circumstances as well, as sometimes parents can be extremely busy.

Respect of teachers is a must, though. I can't imagine someone speaking to teachers in the manner you describe.

Getting back to the OP, another major problem is the mob mentality that seems to be prevalent.

 

[miandadrules]

What sort of evidence you need ? Scientific evidence ?


In a Country like Pakistan You cannot see the difference in action of different communities ? Do all of them act in similar ways in similar situations ?


I think you have lost hope because you have not come across examples of personal experiences around you that's why you are negating it.

For theologians to claim something than they have got to show those living examples/role models. If there are none than there theologies fall flat.

There is scientific proof that fear of God plays no role in morality. In fact an atheist would do a moral deed due to altruism whereas a religious person does it because he feels it benefits him. So where is the progress?

I don't understand what you are getting at, with the different groups in Pakistan. Please, elaborate what you mean and how you correlate them with their actions. As far as I have studied their actions are based on their access to resources, hence the dominant groups behave more aggressively than the weaker ones. The overwhelming driving force is power not theology.

Once again, what good is a theologian's actions when his belief discriminates against those who don't hold the same views as him. It leads to sectarianism and we've all seen what good that has done Pakistan.

And finally, you don't know me nor my experience and you have tried to whitewash my points by feebly rationalising that they must have impaired my judgement.

I'll let you in to a secret. I get my information through research and study. I study politics, history, theology, science, philosophy, psychology and sociology to name a few to gain an understanding of the world around me and I don't let emotion cloud my judgement, nor do I indulge in reductionism to find a narrative that suits my personal agenda.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

There is scientific proof that fear of God plays no role in morality. In fact an atheist would do a moral deed due to altruism whereas a religious person does it because he feels it benefits him. So where is the progress?

I don't understand what you are getting at, with the different groups in Pakistan. Please, elaborate what you mean and how you correlate them with their actions. As far as I have studied their actions are based on their access to resources, hence the dominant groups behave more aggressively than the weaker ones. The overwhelming driving force is power not theology.

Once again, what good is a theologian's actions when his belief discriminates against those who don't hold the same views as him. It leads to sectarianism and we've all seen what good that has done Pakistan.

And finally, you don't know me nor my experience and you have tried to whitewash my points by feebly rationalising that they must have impaired my judgement.

I'll let you in to a secret. I get my information through research and study. I study politics, history, theology, science, philosophy, psychology and sociology to name a few to gain an understanding of the world around me and I don't let emotion cloud my judgement, nor do I indulge in reductionism to find a narrative that suits my personal agenda.

What is sin? It is to go against the will of God and to violate His instructions given to mankind through prophets and especially through the Holy Prophet, sallallaho alaihi wa sallam. Sin is to reject boldly the guidance that is given to them and which they have understood properly. He who violates the commandments of God in connection with this guidance and acts mischievously attracts the wrath. The consequences of this temerity and boldness is not only this much that he will go to the hell in the next world; in this world also he will have to taste punishment and he will be humiliated.

Same is the case with the authorities that be in the worldly affairs. They promulgate a law and make it known to the people. Later on who ever is found violating it, he is charged and punished. But so far as the punishment of the worldly laws is concerned, one can manoeuver to leave that domain and go elsewhere and get rid of them. For example if one violates the law of the British Government, he can run to France or to the domain of Kabul and thus he can save himself from the punishment. But where can a man flee after the violation of the commandments of God, for, the earth and the sky that we see belong to Him. There is no earth and no sky elsewhere, belonging to someone else where one may seek refuge. This is why it is very essential that one must always have the fear of God and never show boldness in violating His commandments. Sin is a very bad thing and when a man becomes bold and does not fear the violation of the commandments, then the wrath of God descends on him in this world as well as in the next world.

 

[Moiza]

I can see where you're coming from, but I also had parents who were (mostly) both working.

I'd say that teachers also had an impact but parents had a much larger effect - it does depend on circumstances as well, as sometimes parents can be extremely busy.

Respect of teachers is a must, though. I can't imagine someone speaking to teachers in the manner you describe.

Getting back to the OP, another major problem is the mob mentality that seems to be prevalent.

No I didn't mean speaking directly to the teacher in that fashion. It was more about how you talk about the teacher when you are with your friends. When it face to face than many will atleast fake the respect.

 

[Indiafan]

What is sin? It is to go against the will of God and to violate His instructions given to mankind through prophets and especially through the Holy Prophet, sallallaho alaihi wa sallam. Sin is to reject boldly the guidance that is given to them and which they have understood properly. He who violates the commandments of God in connection with this guidance and acts mischievously attracts the wrath. The consequences of this temerity and boldness is not only this much that he will go to the hell in the next world; in this world also he will have to taste punishment and he will be humiliated.

Same is the case with the authorities that be in the worldly affairs. They promulgate a law and make it known to the people. Later on who ever is found violating it, he is charged and punished. But so far as the punishment of the worldly laws is concerned, one can manoeuver to leave that domain and go elsewhere and get rid of them. For example if one violates the law of the British Government, he can run to France or to the domain of Kabul and thus he can save himself from the punishment. But where can a man flee after the violation of the commandments of God, for, the earth and the sky that we see belong to Him. There is no earth and no sky elsewhere, belonging to someone else where one may seek refuge. This is why it is very essential that one must always have the fear of God and never show boldness in violating His commandments. Sin is a very bad thing and when a man becomes bold and does not fear the violation of the commandments, then the wrath of God descends on him in this world as well as in the next world.

I think he is trying to say, that people can still be moral, help others and do the right thing even without the fear of God. In US prisons most prisoners are deeply religious. So there are religious people who can be immoral and moral people who are not religious.

Truly moral people do things because they think its the right thing to do and to help others. Not because of fear of law or God.

Also, do remember, when a country has plenty, society is open and non-judging, there is less corruption, then the people in that country are automatically more moral. This has nothing to do with religion or law. An American coming to Pakistan or India might see the lax traffic laws, police taking bribe, people throwing garbage on the street etc, but just because he sees law and order is weak, he wont start committing crimes and breaking laws

 

[Abdullah719]

No I didn't mean speaking directly to the teacher in that fashion. It was more about how you talk about the teacher when you are with your friends. When it face to face than many will atleast fake the respect.

OK - pupils badmouthing teachers behind their backs was actually quite a common occurrence.

But then the same people would also possibly badmouth their parents at times.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

I think he is trying to say, that people can still be moral, help others and do the right thing even without the fear of God. In US prisons most prisoners are deeply religious. So there are religious people who can be immoral
and moral people who are not religious.

Truly moral people do things because they think its the right thing to do and to help others. Not because of fear of law or God.

Also, do remember, when a country has plenty, society is open and non-judging, there is less corruption, then the people in that country are automatically more moral. This has nothing to do with religion or law. An American coming to Pakistan or India might see the lax traffic laws, police taking bribe, people throwing garbage on the street etc, but just because he sees law and order is weak, he wont start committing crimes and breaking laws

A person changes his religion to get rid of some evil, and as a remedy for a disease, but if the same disease prevails in the new religion, what good there is in the change ?

Do not the Brahmoos with all their rejection of the most excellent attributes of the God, exert that they believe in one God ? But the truth is that none believes in God except the person whose eye of certainty has been opened. He only is released from the bondage of Sin who sees God with the eye of certainty. All other stories are false, all atonements vain.


When you attain this level only than you fear the Lord and do things which pleases your Lord and abstain from sins and immoral acts.


In the presence of evil and evil forces 100 % extinction of sins, crimes and immoral acts/behaviours is not possible but if a religion does not make you a better human being (by and large) than what good is thaf religion ? Than better bin that religion, those doctrines and those leaders and leave that religion.



This debate of Morals, Sins, Crime is a relative debate in modern age. What exactly are morals ? If you see from religious side than in certain religions some deeds and actions are considered severe crimes and sins while others do not see them that way. There is no doubt in my mind that an aethiest can follow the traffic lights and can keep his roads clean and can be financially honest either due to his grooming/upbringing or due to fear of Law. But the debate of morals and ethics does not stop here.


Anyhow it is a never ending debate as usual but I ll stop here

 

[TQ89]

What was the reason of this fight?

 

[miandadrules]

What is sin? It is to go against the will of God and to violate His instructions given to mankind through prophets and especially through the Holy Prophet, sallallaho alaihi wa sallam. Sin is to reject boldly the guidance that is given to them and which they have understood properly. He who violates the commandments of God in connection with this guidance and acts mischievously attracts the wrath. The consequences of this temerity and boldness is not only this much that he will go to the hell in the next world; in this world also he will have to taste punishment and he will be humiliated.

Same is the case with the authorities that be in the worldly affairs. They promulgate a law and make it known to the people. Later on who ever is found violating it, he is charged and punished. But so far as the punishment of the worldly laws is concerned, one can manoeuver to leave that domain and go elsewhere and get rid of them. For example if one violates the law of the British Government, he can run to France or to the domain of Kabul and thus he can save himself from the punishment. But where can a man flee after the violation of the commandments of God, for, the earth and the sky that we see belong to Him. There is no earth and no sky elsewhere, belonging to someone else where one may seek refuge. This is why it is very essential that one must always have the fear of God and never show boldness in violating His commandments. Sin is a very bad thing and when a man becomes bold and does not fear the violation of the commandments, then the wrath of God descends on him in this world as well as in the next world.

Please save this for the pulpit. I prefer to deal with the ground reality.

But lets say we do implement "God's law" as you state. I presume you would want the Islamic version. So whose interpretation are we going to follow? Are you saying that you have the definitive interpretation? Because if you do that means you will be discriminating against those that disagree.

Lets not forget that violence certain communities, such as the one you belong to who have been subject to persecution because the perpetrators believed whole heartedly that they were following God's law.

So if you insist on religion playing an even greater role, then don't cry foul when you are on the receiving end of such judgements in this world.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

Please save this for the pulpit. I prefer to deal with the ground reality.

But lets say we do implement "God's law" as you state. I presume you would want the Islamic version. So whose interpretation are we going to follow? Are you saying that you have the definitive interpretation? Because if you do that means you will be discriminating against those that disagree.

Lets not forget that violence certain communities, such as the one you belong to who have been subject to persecution because the perpetrators believed whole heartedly that they were following God's law.

So if you insist on religion playing an even greater role, then don't cry foul when you are on the receiving end of such judgements in this world.

He Pbuh said that Imam Mehdi will be Hakam o Adal so He AS will decide on matters where consensus isn't there. And he will be guided by Allah.

And yes I will Cry and protest peacefully when I, my community or any other community is persecuted because of their faith. And as far as misusing religion and misinterpreting it is concerned we are very clear. Be it be Apostasy, blasphemy or so called Shariat enforcement is concerned We universally have one view and we prove it from Quran and Hadith and that view is such that It doesn't take any life neither punishes anyone nor asks for it. So whether it is other sects or other religions or people without any religion it does not hurt them in any sense as ot is non voilent and peaceful.

 

[miandadrules]

He Pbuh said that Imam Mehdi will be Hakam o Adal so He AS will decide on matters where consensus isn't there. And he will be guided by Allah.

And yes I will Cry and protest peacefully when I, my community or any other community is persecuted because of their faith. And as far as misusing religion and misinterpreting it is concerned we are very clear. Be it be Apostasy, blasphemy or so called Shariat enforcement is concerned We universally have one view and we prove it from Quran and Hadith and that view is such that It doesn't take any life neither punishes anyone nor asks for it. So whether it is other sects or other religions or people without any religion it does not hurt them in any sense as ot is non voilent and peaceful.

I'm sure your tears and peaceful process will be enough to make up for the torture and loss of life. Why don't you ask those who will suffer whether it is a good trace-off.

So really you're only interested in imposing your own belief system on others.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

I'm sure your tears and peaceful process will be enough to make up for the torture and loss of life. Why don't you ask those who will suffer whether it is a good trace-off.

So really you're only interested in imposing your own belief system on others.

Who is suffering ? Whose life is lost ?

Not I but we spread our message and we will keep on doing it. Our message is non voilent and we win people by argument, we do not impose our beliefs on them neither we have some magic wand. When people get convinced they convert. If they don't get convinced or don't convert even than our message does not affect their daily life and it does not threaten their life. So what is the problem ?