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[VIDEOS] Is Babar Azam a softie?

Babar_Azam_fan

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Sorry to make this thread, but had to.

He's time and again shown he's soft. Yes, I am his fan, but not a blind one. Kinda losing patience with him.

You can't be compared to top players when you can't give consistent/ match winning knocks.

Rizwan has already over taken Babar in the past year in Tests and T20Is.

By now, he must be averaging 48+ in tests with 2 double hundreds, 5-6 match winning knocks. But he keeps getting out against the likes of Maharaj and Zimbabwe
 
This has been an embarrassing series for him. He might not get a chance to bat in the second innings, if there is one. He just hasn’t clicked at the test level but getting out twice against a C class Zimbabwe team is shameful.
 
He’s had a couple bad games it happens. Not a big deal. I rather him fail against Zimbabwe whilst others stand up and him capitalise against better teams where the rest will definitely fail
 
Babar Azam has different qualities from different top batsmen, but bad qualities of each

Drops catches like Virat
Soft body language like Williamson
Scores soft runs in ODIs ike Root
Plays match losing innings at a low sr in T20Is like Smith
 
To be honest despite his dismissal today Pakistan are still in a commanding position. I mean if i'll be honest it was just a blindingly good spell by Blessing and don't take away good bowling from someone i say.

He'll come good, this is the problem with fans and sorry mate that includes you. You can't be the hero all the time, you can't always shell out a performance in every match and if that was expected of Babar he'd be the first one out the door because it's impossible.

Doesn't matter, still a brilliant player and come the next series he'll come good inshAllah as well as the other boys.

Just a forgetful tour for Babar this one.
 
Not at all.

In a cricket mad population of 20 Crore, Babar Azam is the best batsman that Pakistan has. If you are that 1 in 20 Crore and it has been proved at the highest level, it means you are actually quite tough.

You can't be an elite player if you are not mentally tough. I am sorry but I don't agree with the OP here.
 
To be honest despite his dismissal today Pakistan are still in a commanding position. I mean if i'll be honest it was just a blindingly good spell by Blessing and don't take away good bowling from someone i say.

He'll come good, this is the problem with fans and sorry mate that includes you. You can't be the hero all the time, you can't always shell out a performance in every match and if that was expected of Babar he'd be the first one out the door because it's impossible.

Doesn't matter, still a brilliant player and come the next series he'll come good inshAllah as well as the other boys.

Just a forgetful tour for Babar this one.

Every match? One tour?

3 failures out of 4 against SA at home, that too against Maharaj and in a similar way. 2 out of 2 against Zimbabwe.

That's 5 failures out of last 6 innings in tests.
Good he didn't play against NZ, who knows it'd have been something like 8 failures out of last 10 innings.
 
Sorry but, from where are you exactly getting this benchmark of 48+ and 2 double 100s?

Lets have a look at some of the few greats of the past decade after 32 tests:

Kane Williamson

Average of 37, SR of 43, HS of 135 and 6 100s

AB de Villiers

Less than 2000 runs, average of 35, HS of 178 and 3 100s

Virat Kohli (Before his breakthrough Aus tour) after 29 matches

Average of 39, HS of 119 and 6 100s

After Aus tour of 2014 his average went upto 46 and gave a decent direction to his test career

This is just to give some perspective of how different batsmen develop over time. Yes some start performing at an optimal level faster than others but, Babar is just showing normal path of development of any good batsmen. Yes how much he develops and what kind of peak he touches is yet to be seen.

Ofcourse Babar needs to pull his socks up but so far he has shown nothing out of the ordinary in positive or negative aspect at test level in comparison to the recent top players.
 
Babar is a very fine player, but the issue is that Pakistan is an absolute joke of a cricket team with no talent, and thus, a player like Babar stands out and appears to be greater than he actually is.

Our delusional fans keep pushing him in the league of players like Kohli, Smith, Rohit etc., but the reality is that Babar is actually in the same league as the support cast of Indian batting such as KL Rahul or Shreyas Iyer or Mayank Agarwal.

If he was Indian, he status and value to the Indian team would not be better any greater than those guys. In fact, he will probably not even be a first-choice player in any format.

Babar is living the dream in Pakistan. He can fail for 2 years and there will be no threat to his place because he will still be head and shoulders above everyone else in the country, such is the lack of talent in Pakistan.

There is absolutely no pressure on him to alter his playing style or to not chase personal milestones.

Pakistan has a deeply mediocre cricket culture and a player like Babar is thriving in that low performance, low pressure culture.

The bottom-line is that it is not his fault – we expect things from that he is not capable of.

As I always say, the biggest problem in Pakistan cricket is not the players, the management, the selectors - the biggest problem is the expectations of the fans.
 
Every match? One tour?

3 failures out of 4 against SA at home, that too against Maharaj and in a similar way. 2 out of 2 against Zimbabwe.

That's 5 failures out of last 6 innings in tests.
Good he didn't play against NZ, who knows it'd have been something like 8 failures out of last 10 innings.

Patience i say, Azhar went through perhaps the worst patch of his career with 12 innings of no fifties or hundreds.

Learn to have Subr (patience), something most of the people on this forum suffer from. Let's see how he does in WI, but i will say this that it's been said time and time again like a broken record that Pakistan management should be arranging more tests in the year/our players where possible should be giving priority to County cricket over these small tours/Pakistan should be playing more A tours for players to get accustomed to other surfaces.
 
Not at all.

In a cricket mad population of 20 Crore, Babar Azam is the best batsman that Pakistan has. If you are that 1 in 20 Crore and it has been proved at the highest level, it means you are actually quite tough.

You can't be an elite player if you are not mentally tough. I am sorry but I don't agree with the OP here.

Thank you for being the only one with a sensible take in this thread. Some of the posts in here just show why Pakistani fans don’t deserve to have nice things.
 
Babar is a very fine player, but the issue is that Pakistan is an absolute joke of a cricket team with no talent, and thus, a player like Babar stands out and appears to be greater than he actually is.

Our delusional fans keep pushing him in the league of players like Kohli, Smith, Rohit etc., but the reality is that Babar is actually in the same league as the support cast of Indian batting such as KL Rahul or Shreyas Iyer or Mayank Agarwal.

If he was Indian, he status and value to the Indian team would not be better any greater than those guys. In fact, he will probably not even be a first-choice player in any format.

Babar is living the dream in Pakistan. He can fail for 2 years and there will be no threat to his place because he will still be head and shoulders above everyone else in the country, such is the lack of talent in Pakistan.

There is absolutely no pressure on him to alter his playing style or to not chase personal milestones.

Pakistan has a deeply mediocre cricket culture and a player like Babar is thriving in that low performance, low pressure culture.

The bottom-line is that it is not his fault – we expect things from that he is not capable of.

As I always say, the biggest problem in Pakistan cricket is not the players, the management, the selectors - the biggest problem is the expectations of the fans.

Mate, I've read your posts on this forum where you mention Babar Azam as potentially the best batsman Pakistan has ever produced, due to the poor/ ordinary batting culture of Pakistan. (which personally I don't agree, Babar isn't the best)

So, assuming he fulfils that potential then it means Inzamam, Miandad, Zaheer Abbas, Saeed Anwar, Mohammed Yousuf, Younus Khan, just to name a few, were only as good as Mayank Agarwal, Iyer and KL Rahul! 😂 (Mayank, Shreyas and KL will be over the moon if they visit this forum 😂)

I mean, a lot of your posts are good and you make very valid points, but this entire discussion is just embarrassing.
 
Mate, I've read your posts on this forum where you mention Babar Azam as potentially the best batsman Pakistan has ever produced, due to the poor/ ordinary batting culture of Pakistan. (which personally I don't agree, Babar isn't the best)

So, assuming he fulfils that potential then it means Inzamam, Miandad, Zaheer Abbas, Saeed Anwar, Mohammed Yousuf, Younus Khan, just to name a few, were only as good as Mayank Agarwal, Iyer and KL Rahul! 😂 (Mayank, Shreyas and KL will be over the moon if they visit this forum 😂)

I mean, a lot of your posts are good and you make very valid points, but this entire discussion is just embarrassing.

I bet most people around here are “youngsters” who are very passionate but also reactionary.
Babar scores a century — threads and posts about he’s the best

Babar scores a duck - knives come out

Great players obviously develop overtime. None of the Pak players mentioned above averaged more than 45 in their first 40 tests despite the fact that they got a ton of games in Pakistani stadiums where they grew up developing their crafts.
The only exception is Javed Miandad who averaged 50s pretty quickly in 20-25 tests
 
A couple of poor dismissals don't make you a softie.

All these threads come because many fans expect him to among the best 2-3 in the world, but that's an unfair expectation for now. He is not there, but that hardly means he is a softie.
 
A couple of poor dismissals don't make you a softie.

All these threads come because many fans expect him to among the best 2-3 in the world, but that's an unfair expectation for now. He is not there, but that hardly means he is a softie.

Agree with this. May go through a rough patch or might not have luck on his side right now but he'll come through.

What I will agree with though is that he doesn't seem to be that much of an impact player. He had that century in a losing cause in the test against Aus in 2019 and that century against NZ in CWC but other than that no innings of his comes to mind as match-winning, they've all been bilateral series where Pak comfortably wins the match.

Not trying to take anything away from him as a player and it could just be that most players only play 10-15 such innings in their entire career and he just needs more time and I need more patience...
 
He doesn't have a dominating personality and he does come across as timid. But look every player is different so it's not that a big deal.

What's more worrying is about how he seems to lack the ability to score big in tests and important runs in tests. He is 26. Most top test players show signs or have score some big knocks at this age.

Performances against Zimbabwe don't matter but it is extremely concerning that he could not get a big score against them. Getting 1 big score here would have built confidence and belief that he can do that at test level and could have opened the door for more big scores.
 
I thought he would score a century in each innings against such weak opposition. Has greatly disappointed.
 
he will play for Pakistan for another 10 years.

taunt him after that.

Kohli averages 29 in his last 20-24 innings (not the exact number). Does that make Kohli super softie ?
 
Mate, I've read your posts on this forum where you mention Babar Azam as potentially the best batsman Pakistan has ever produced, due to the poor/ ordinary batting culture of Pakistan. (which personally I don't agree, Babar isn't the best)

So, assuming he fulfils that potential then it means Inzamam, Miandad, Zaheer Abbas, Saeed Anwar, Mohammed Yousuf, Younus Khan, just to name a few, were only as good as Mayank Agarwal, Iyer and KL Rahul! 😂 (Mayank, Shreyas and KL will be over the moon if they visit this forum 😂)

I mean, a lot of your posts are good and you make very valid points, but this entire discussion is just embarrassing.

I must apologize for labeling Babar the greatest Pakistani batsman ever (potentially) because I severely overestimated his capabilities.

After watching him bat in Test cricket over the last year or so, I have come to the conclusion that he will never get anywhere near the likes of Miandad, Yousuf, Younis, Inzamam etc. in Test cricket.

Those guys scored mountains of runs against spinners like Kumble on Indian tracks - Babar cannot even handle Maharaj on flat Pakistani pitches, and has not displayed the temperament to go big in Test cricket.

He is a Mickey Mouse Test batsman compared to other Pakistani Test greats of the past. His spin play is very average and there is no need to baby him because he is almost 27 and has 6 years of international experience.

He is probably the best white ball batsman Pakistan has had though, which again is down to the the embarrassingly low bar. The likes of Saeed Anwar, Yousuf and Inzamam could only score 20, 15 and 10 ODI centuries respectively.
 
I bet most people around here are “youngsters” who are very passionate but also reactionary.
Babar scores a century — threads and posts about he’s the best

Babar scores a duck - knives come out

Great players obviously develop overtime. None of the Pak players mentioned above averaged more than 45 in their first 40 tests despite the fact that they got a ton of games in Pakistani stadiums where they grew up developing their crafts.
The only exception is Javed Miandad who averaged 50s pretty quickly in 20-25 tests

I am old enough to watch since the late 90’s, and of all the big name/star Pakistani batsmen that I have watched, Babar is the weakest Test player of the lot.

The excuse that he has not played enough matches at home does not work. It is not about playing at home but his lack of skill against spin.

He has played enough Tests in the UAE to improve his batting against spin but he still does not look comfortable.

Younis Khan was officially only 2 years older than Babar when he scored 267 against Kumble and Harbhajan in Bangalore in 2005.

Heck, his own cousin Kamran Akmal batted all day on a day 5 pitch in Mohali against Kumble and Harbhajan to save a Test match.

Babar will not last 3 overs against such spinners, and if India plays Pakistan today in India, Pakistan or UAE, Ashwin and Jadeja will run circles around him.

In Test cricket, Babar is turning into another Ijaz Ahmed - a good player on fast, bouncy pitches but an average player on slow, turning wickets because of mediocre skill against spinners.
 
After the Australian series, where he he was obviously not anywhere near as dominant as Kohli in 2015 but still played very well, he was expected to start dominating Test cricket as well.

However, he followed that up by flopping in England, getting humiliated at home by a weak South Africa and now cannot even dominate Zimbabwe.

Back to square one for Babar in Test cricket I am afraid.
 
Fans need to be patience.
Let him play at least 50 tests before jumping into the conclusion.
This Zim series don't matters.
 
After the Australian series, where he he was obviously not anywhere near as dominant as Kohli in 2015 but still played very well, he was expected to start dominating Test cricket as well.

However, he followed that up by flopping in England, getting humiliated at home by a weak South Africa and now cannot even dominate Zimbabwe.

Back to square one for Babar in Test cricket I am afraid.

Babar played well in England and averaged nearly 50 in testing circumstances, Anderson himself stated that he felt very old when bowling to Babar. Mo Aamir averaged more then Kohli on their respective first tours of England, not the easiest place to Bat when you’re inexperienced
 
To be completely honest, I've always felt he was a bit of a softie, but not due to his twin failures against a club level Zimbabwe against which even a double century doesn't count for much. The first time I felt the soft nature to Babar's innings was in an ODI in Australia when he scored 84 off 100 balls. I remember highlighting that an 84 off 100 balls in an ODI in Australia was not a good knock, as Pakistan ended up getting only 260 which Australia cruised at a canter, in one of the threads. Some Pak fans defended that knock saying Babar was too young and he had to play the long innings as his seniors failed around him. Two matches later, he scored a run a ball century in a partnership with Sharjeel in a match chasing 370 when it never looked like both batsmen wanted to win the game, more so Babar because at least Sharjeel batted at a sr of 120 in the match, while Babar batted at a sr of 90.

People keep comparing the stats of Kohli and other top batsmen against Babar at a particular match threshold, but the fact is that all of those batsmen had some great innings and memorable knocks to their name by the time they were 26.

Kohli had a century at Adelaide in his debut tour to Australia and followed it up with 4 tons in 4 matches in his next tour. He already had a century and a 96 in the second innings against peak Steyn, Philander and Morkel in his debut tour to South Africa and a century in New Zealand in his debut tour to New Zealand in Test cricket. He had already scored a blistering 183 chasing 330 against Ajmal, Gul and Afridi and played an incredible innings of 133 not out while chasing 320 in just 36 overs against peak Malinga. He had also scored a century against Pakistan in the 2015 WC but because Kohli set so high standards, that sedate innings was not a memorable one by his standards. In the T20 format, he had scored a match winning 72 off 44 balls in the 2014 T20WC semifinal against South Africa and won the player of the tournament award in that T20 WC.

Steve Smith had already scored three tons in Ashes tests in England including a 150 and also a 215 at Lords. He had scored centuries in South Africa against Steyn and Philander and also had a ton in NZ. He of course also scored 4 tons in 4 matches in that same series where Kohli matched his feat. He didn't have great ODI stats but nevertheless had a great 2015 WC and scored a century in the semifinal against India.

Williamson hadn't accomplished as much as Smith and Kohli did by the time he was 26, but he still scored a debut ton in India when he must have been barely 20 and had scored multiple tons in Australia and England. I also remember him playing a decent knock when his side was 9 down in a group game against Australia when Starc was bowling like Wasim Akram.

Joe Root obviously had a great start to his test career before tapering off lately. I remember him scoring a ton in his debut series in India and had great record at home in Test cricket. I also remember him playing a memorable knock while chasing 230 odd in a T20 WC game against South Africa, although he must have been just over 26 then I think.

With Babar, it's very hard to remember any landmark or memorable innings that was special and stays in your memory. People point his knock chasing 230 odd against NZ in the last WC, but that was a good knock chasing an underpar total, not a memorable knock which you would remember after 10 or 15 years. I still think he is a very good batsman in ODI cricket despite lacking a few things his compatriots like Kohli, Smith, Williamson have in their arsenal, but he certainly has to start kicking on in Test cricket because it looks like he is still finding his feet in Test cricket, which whether people like it or not, ultimately deicides a lot of your legacy. A great ODI batsman like Dean Jones is still remembered but there's a reason people still rave about the likes of Ponting, Lara, Tendulkar because all these batsmen were not just great in ODI cricket, but also had great legacies in Test cricket.
 
Babar's application is poor in tests. He doesn't have the patience to play a long innings. Sometimes he starts playing shots before assessing the pace bounce and movement in the pitch.
His potential cannot be doubted but he needs to play with a better mindset
 
Barbar ‘the fraud’ Azam being found out in all formats. Guy was getting too big for his boots. Going the Sarfraz way... these guys get made captains on the back of flukey performances but soon show ther true colours.
 
To be completely honest, I've always felt he was a bit of a softie, but not due to his twin failures against a club level Zimbabwe against which even a double century doesn't count for much. The first time I felt the soft nature to Babar's innings was in an ODI in Australia when he scored 84 off 100 balls. I remember highlighting that an 84 off 100 balls in an ODI in Australia was not a good knock, as Pakistan ended up getting only 260 which Australia cruised at a canter, in one of the threads. Some Pak fans defended that knock saying Babar was too young and he had to play the long innings as his seniors failed around him. Two matches later, he scored a run a ball century in a partnership with Sharjeel in a match chasing 370 when it never looked like both batsmen wanted to win the game, more so Babar because at least Sharjeel batted at a sr of 120 in the match, while Babar batted at a sr of 90.

People keep comparing the stats of Kohli and other top batsmen against Babar at a particular match threshold, but the fact is that all of those batsmen had some great innings and memorable knocks to their name by the time they were 26.

Kohli had a century at Adelaide in his debut tour to Australia and followed it up with 4 tons in 4 matches in his next tour. He already had a century and a 96 in the second innings against peak Steyn, Philander and Morkel in his debut tour to South Africa and a century in New Zealand in his debut tour to New Zealand in Test cricket. He had already scored a blistering 183 chasing 330 against Ajmal, Gul and Afridi and played an incredible innings of 133 not out while chasing 320 in just 36 overs against peak Malinga. He had also scored a century against Pakistan in the 2015 WC but because Kohli set so high standards, that sedate innings was not a memorable one by his standards. In the T20 format, he had scored a match winning 72 off 44 balls in the 2014 T20WC semifinal against South Africa and won the player of the tournament award in that T20 WC.

Steve Smith had already scored three tons in Ashes tests in England including a 150 and also a 215 at Lords. He had scored centuries in South Africa against Steyn and Philander and also had a ton in NZ. He of course also scored 4 tons in 4 matches in that same series where Kohli matched his feat. He didn't have great ODI stats but nevertheless had a great 2015 WC and scored a century in the semifinal against India.

Williamson hadn't accomplished as much as Smith and Kohli did by the time he was 26, but he still scored a debut ton in India when he must have been barely 20 and had scored multiple tons in Australia and England. I also remember him playing a decent knock when his side was 9 down in a group game against Australia when Starc was bowling like Wasim Akram.

Joe Root obviously had a great start to his test career before tapering off lately. I remember him scoring a ton in his debut series in India and had great record at home in Test cricket. I also remember him playing a memorable knock while chasing 230 odd in a T20 WC game against South Africa, although he must have been just over 26 then I think.

With Babar, it's very hard to remember any landmark or memorable innings that was special and stays in your memory. People point his knock chasing 230 odd against NZ in the last WC, but that was a good knock chasing an underpar total, not a memorable knock which you would remember after 10 or 15 years. I still think he is a very good batsman in ODI cricket despite lacking a few things his compatriots like Kohli, Smith, Williamson have in their arsenal, but he certainly has to start kicking on in Test cricket because it looks like he is still finding his feet in Test cricket, which whether people like it or not, ultimately deicides a lot of your legacy. A great ODI batsman like Dean Jones is still remembered but there's a reason people still rave about the likes of Ponting, Lara, Tendulkar because all these batsmen were not just great in ODI cricket, but also had great legacies in Test cricket.

I agree with you on everything. I do however think that knock vs NZ was a key one. It was a must win match vs an unbeaten team, with a very good bowling lineup (as India found out) and the pitch was acting a bit crazy. We have to give credit where it's due. And shows he IS capable of hitting clutch innings, even if it was just one example.

Besides that innings and probably the 100 in australia he hasn't gotten those innings yet and most of his 100s have been soft runs like Amla and Tendulkar post 2003.

I think he needs to learn to take charge of an innings. Unfortunately for Babar he does/did not have the luxury that Kohli had. Kohli had a lot of good mentors in his team early in his career who would bat with him and talk him through the rough spots. I even remember Gambhir giving up his Man of the match trophy to Kohli just for sticking it out with him. Babar never had that mentorship. I feel if he had batted with YK, Misbah more often he could have gotten a better hang of things. I feel this is where Azhar has to atleast work with him through an innings so atleast Babar learns how to construct a bigger innings. The transition period was never smooth for Babar.

And again the onus is all on Babar; unlike KW, Root, Kohli his failures will be highlighted even more seeing as he is head and shoulders above all other Pakistani bats and the team relies on him more so than the other batsmen you mentioned. His role is different to the others and dare I say has more responsibility on his shoulders which does affect his game. If even one or 2 Pakistan batsmen step up it will be a huge relief for him.
 
He doesn't have that killer instinct even the likes of Younis Khan had.
 
In terms of gutsy clutch innings, game awareness... I don't know if that's something you learn. It's something you have or you don't. You can't replicate that scenario in the nets. You can probably get that through experience alone.

Miandad was a master at analysing the game situation. He didn't have the flair or talent that Babar has probably but Miandad was extremely intelligent in analysing situations and play according to the bowlers he faced which is why he has a higher percentage of clutch innings. Miandad wasn't a softie by any means.

I would go even further by saying in the current lineup-Mohammad Rizwan has a better chance at hitting a clutch innings than Babar. It's a game of mental strength and perseverance which Rizwan has shown in his short run of form that Babar is not as capable of.
 
He doesn't have that killer instinct even the likes of Younis Khan had.

Once YK got going in tests, you just knew he was in it for the long haul. If he wasn't out early he would make the bowlers rue not getting him out. Same with Yousuf in his prime.

Even Miandad. There are multiple instances where Miandad would stick it out when the team was collapsing around him but he was there till the end/ or atleast till Pakistan were out of trouble. Babar has not shown that same fighting attitude.
 
I agree with you on everything. I do however think that knock vs NZ was a key one. It was a must win match vs an unbeaten team, with a very good bowling lineup (as India found out) and the pitch was acting a bit crazy. We have to give credit where it's due. And shows he IS capable of hitting clutch innings, even if it was just one example.

Besides that innings and probably the 100 in australia he hasn't gotten those innings yet and most of his 100s have been soft runs like Amla and Tendulkar post 2003.

I think he needs to learn to take charge of an innings. Unfortunately for Babar he does/did not have the luxury that Kohli had. Kohli had a lot of good mentors in his team early in his career who would bat with him and talk him through the rough spots. I even remember Gambhir giving up his Man of the match trophy to Kohli just for sticking it out with him. Babar never had that mentorship. I feel if he had batted with YK, Misbah more often he could have gotten a better hang of things. I feel this is where Azhar has to atleast work with him through an innings so atleast Babar learns how to construct a bigger innings. The transition period was never smooth for Babar.

And again the onus is all on Babar; unlike KW, Root, Kohli his failures will be highlighted even more seeing as he is head and shoulders above all other Pakistani bats and the team relies on him more so than the other batsmen you mentioned. His role is different to the others and dare I say has more responsibility on his shoulders which does affect his game. If even one or 2 Pakistan batsmen step up it will be a huge relief for him.

You can't be the best in a cricket mad population of 20 Crores and not be tough enough. I don't buy this argument of softie because if you are soft, you won't be the best at the highest level in a cricket crazy population of 20 Crores.
 
Subjective opinions are dime a dozen here.

Remember, the table never lies.

Babar is 1st in ODIs, 3rd in T20s and 9th in Test rankings. In all the world. All international teams. Over a long time period.

The table treats all players the same. Not based on emotions as are displayed here.

This after having played all around the world in all kinds of conditions. That puts him way above many of his contemporaries who aren't fit to tie his shoelaces.

One bad patch, and suddenly the knives are out.

He definitely has to sort out his game in tests - particularly against spin. Knowing the kind of player he is, and how much hard work he puts in, he will be able to sort it out.

We also hope he plays the kind of marquee innings that define a player. He owes it to himself.
 
You can't be the best in a cricket mad population of 20 Crores and not be tough enough. I don't buy this argument of softie because if you are soft, you won't be the best at the highest level in a cricket crazy population of 20 Crores.

So are you implying he isn't a softie or that every other cricketer in Pakistan right now is softer than him :P

I'm pretty sure Mickie wasn't lying when he says Babar is the hardest working guy in the team. I'm sure he is. He's not a softie in those regards. But his mental fortitude is limited. It's just frustrating to see someone like Babar struggle because you know he is capable of much more. If he can hit those soft runs what's stopping him from hitting them when the team needs it. And him being soft isn't limited to his batting. You can see it in his captaincy too.
 
Subjective opinions are dime a dozen here.

Remember, the table never lies.

Babar is 1st in ODIs, 3rd in T20s and 9th in Test rankings. In all the world. All international teams. Over a long time period.

The table treats all players the same. Not based on emotions as are displayed here.

This after having played all around the world in all kinds of conditions. That puts him way above many of his contemporaries who aren't fit to tie his shoelaces.

One bad patch, and suddenly the knives are out.

He definitely has to sort out his game in tests - particularly against spin. Knowing the kind of player he is, and how much hard work he puts in, he will be able to sort it out.

We also hope he plays the kind of marquee innings that define a player. He owes it to himself.

Amla was number 1 too for a long time. He was the king of soft runs
 
Subjective opinions are dime a dozen here.

Remember, the table never lies.

Babar is 1st in ODIs, 3rd in T20s and 9th in Test rankings. In all the world. All international teams. Over a long time period.

The table treats all players the same. Not based on emotions as are displayed here.

This after having played all around the world in all kinds of conditions. That puts him way above many of his contemporaries who aren't fit to tie his shoelaces.

One bad patch, and suddenly the knives are out.

He definitely has to sort out his game in tests - particularly against spin. Knowing the kind of player he is, and how much hard work he puts in, he will be able to sort it out.

We also hope he plays the kind of marquee innings that define a player. He owes it to himself.

And by the way, it's not a new thing, I've been mentioning this since the series vs England last year. He had improved until that point and I was hoping that tour would be his kick off point but his game has stagnated and weaknesses and limitations are starting to show. He is capable of much more but he has to reach for it.
 
I remember thinking when I saw that innings vs NZ in the WC "That's the Babar I want to see" even though he had pretty much established himself as a very good player by then. But unfortunately never got to see much more of THAT BABAR
 
Amla was number 1 too for a long time. He was the king of soft runs

So be it. Every team has all kind of players. M Yusuf also was like that, and I'd mention some others but then it will be a bloodbath :).

As long as Babar scores 50 an innings, performs in all conditions and sets up some winning totals, would you no consider him one of the best?

Remember: in the case of Zimbabwe, there are soft runs on offer. I mean careers are based on minnow bashing. He hasn't taken runs off them. His average is made elsewhere.
 
And by the way, it's not a new thing, I've been mentioning this since the series vs England last year. He had improved until that point and I was hoping that tour would be his kick off point but his game has stagnated and weaknesses and limitations are starting to show. He is capable of much more but he has to reach for it.

I will agree to that. I am just putting it down to a bad patch. Players go a season or two of bad patches before pulling it all together. All good and great players go through bad patches. Root was like that until recently.
 
So be it. Every team has all kind of players. M Yusuf also was like that, and I'd mention some others but then it will be a bloodbath :).

As long as Babar scores 50 an innings, performs in all conditions and sets up some winning totals, would you no consider him one of the best?

Remember: in the case of Zimbabwe, there are soft runs on offer. I mean careers are based on minnow bashing. He hasn't taken runs off them. His average is made elsewhere.

Scoring a 50 per innings and Setting Winning totals are completely different things by the way. That's what seperates the softies from the baddies of test cricket.
Getting the team out of trouble is also something at vital points in the match
 
I will agree to that. I am just putting it down to a bad patch. Players go a season or two of bad patches before pulling it all together. All good and great players go through bad patches. Root was like that until recently.

It's just a mental block. Put it this way, if I were to back someone to bat through a tough session without losing their wicket or Chase down a total of 250+ on the last day, I'm going to back Rizwan over Babar. Which in essence shouldn't be a thing since Babar is the more technically sound/ proper bat.
 
I must apologize for labeling Babar the greatest Pakistani batsman ever (potentially) because I severely overestimated his capabilities.

After watching him bat in Test cricket over the last year or so, I have come to the conclusion that he will never get anywhere near the likes of Miandad, Yousuf, Younis, Inzamam etc. in Test cricket.

Those guys scored mountains of runs against spinners like Kumble on Indian tracks - Babar cannot even handle Maharaj on flat Pakistani pitches, and has not displayed the temperament to go big in Test cricket.

He is a Mickey Mouse Test batsman compared to other Pakistani Test greats of the past. His spin play is very average and there is no need to baby him because he is almost 27 and has 6 years of international experience.

He is probably the best white ball batsman Pakistan has had though, which again is down to the the embarrassingly low bar. The likes of Saeed Anwar, Yousuf and Inzamam could only score 20, 15 and 10 ODI centuries respectively.

Even in white ball i don't think Babar is as good. I do agree if we go purely by numbers his stats will look better, but I have seen Inzi play some sensational knocks under pressure which I cannot imgaine Babar ever playing (I hope he proves me wrong) , Inzi also had an aura around him, as long as he was at the crease Pakistan were never out of it irrespective of the opposition bowling attack, in the 90s he was considerd to be at par with Sachin and Lara, two of the greatest batsmen to have played the game. In all comoarisons Babar is way behind.

I will rate Babar behind Inzi, Anwar and Yousuf in Pakistan's ODI list. May be being a 90s kid I'm a bit biased but then I don't see that X factor in Babar. Much like Hashim.
 
Even in white ball i don't think Babar is as good. I do agree if we go purely by numbers his stats will look better, but I have seen Inzi play some sensational knocks under pressure which I cannot imgaine Babar ever playing (I hope he proves me wrong) , Inzi also had an aura around him, as long as he was at the crease Pakistan were never out of it irrespective of the opposition bowling attack, in the 90s he was considerd to be at par with Sachin and Lara, two of the greatest batsmen to have played the game. In all comoarisons Babar is way behind.

I will rate Babar behind Inzi, Anwar and Yousuf in Pakistan's ODI list. May be being a 90s kid I'm a bit biased but then I don't see that X factor in Babar. Much like Hashim.

Inzi was a very very underrated LOI player. Played some excellent underpressure knocks. And that aura you talk about was also with Miandad like I said earlier. A batsman's capabilities will be judged more of how they perform according to certain situations. Babar's failures in those underpressure situations will always put him a rung below the best. Hope he can get past that.
 
Even in white ball i don't think Babar is as good. I do agree if we go purely by numbers his stats will look better, but I have seen Inzi play some sensational knocks under pressure which I cannot imgaine Babar ever playing (I hope he proves me wrong) , Inzi also had an aura around him, as long as he was at the crease Pakistan were never out of it irrespective of the opposition bowling attack, in the 90s he was considerd to be at par with Sachin and Lara, two of the greatest batsmen to have played the game. In all comoarisons Babar is way behind.

I will rate Babar behind Inzi, Anwar and Yousuf in Pakistan's ODI list. May be being a 90s kid I'm a bit biased but then I don't see that X factor in Babar. Much like Hashim.

Off topic but Inzi's century chasing down a mammoth 349 vs India though. Losing cause but still clutch....:imam
Difficult to imagine Babar playing something like that
 
I agree with you on everything. I do however think that knock vs NZ was a key one. It was a must win match vs an unbeaten team, with a very good bowling lineup (as India found out) and the pitch was acting a bit crazy. We have to give credit where it's due. And shows he IS capable of hitting clutch innings, even if it was just one example.

I already said it was a good innings. But let's get one thing right, firstly India didn't have a great team for the 2019 WC and didn't deserve to win that world cup. They had passengers and washed up players in their middle order - the likes of Jadhav, Shankar, Pandey, Karthik and Pant who was very raw in LOIs (still is btw). It was always going to be get the top 3 out and the rest will fall like a pack of cards. Secondly, even with that vulnerable team, it was a choke in that semifinal despite the good bowling performance of NZ. Indian batsmen have always been vulnerable to swing and don't play it as good as they play pace and bounce, so India choking in that semifinal has no bearing on the fact that 230 was an underpar total by NZ against Pak. Babar did play a good innings to set up the chase, but chasing 250ish score is within Babar's ball park. What I want to see is Babar chasing a 300-320+ total where most often he has faltered.

Besides that innings and probably the 100 in australia he hasn't gotten those innings yet and most of his 100s have been soft runs like Amla and Tendulkar post 2003.

Lol what's this fascination of Pak fans in comparing Babar with Kohli and Tendulkar. Tendulkar was certainly not the same player after his tennis elbow injury, but even then, he played plenty of great knocks after 2003. I remember Ponting saying Australia would take the CB series in 2 matches (in a best of 3 finals with India). Tendulkar carried India to victory in two matches in the CB series finals. Chasing 350 at Hyderabad, he scored 175 at a sr of 125 against Australia with little support at the other end, way back in 2009 when a sr of 100 was considered very good. And he had a great 2011 WC scoring 120 off 115 against England and 111 off 101 balls against South Africa. He was the 2nd leading run scorer in that world cup, just 20 short of top scorer Dilshan, all at 38 years of age. People remember his 2003 WC final and think he wasn't clutch.

He was one of the best clutch players in the game, he just wasn't as clutch as Sir Viv, who I consider to be the GOAT ODI batsman. I would rate Tendulkar better than Kohli till Virat starts producing the goods in the world cup as world cup performances define a lot of the legacy of ODI players. Tendulkar has one of the best ever world cup records in cricket history, which Virat hasn't come close to matching it. I mean, Sachin averaged 47 with the bat in the 1992 WC at just 18 years of age, was the top scorer in the 1996 WC at 23 years, was the top scorer again in the 2003 WC by a mile and player of that tournament and was the 2nd top scorer in the 2011 WC at 38 years of age. I don't think Kohli will ever match Tendulkar's world cup performances and comparing even a post 2003 Tendulkar with the current Babar is just silly.
 
After the Australian series, where he he was obviously not anywhere near as dominant as Kohli in 2015 but still played very well, he was expected to start dominating Test cricket as well.

However, he followed that up by flopping in England, getting humiliated at home by a weak South Africa and now cannot even dominate Zimbabwe.

Back to square one for Babar in Test cricket I am afraid.
Only he did not flop in England and was probably o. His way to century before rain intervened as well as scoring a fifty before in a series cut short by rain.
Also he had no issue playing spin against SA in SA,. Stop using his struggles in Pakistan as he was just coming back from a long break from international cricket due to his injury, so he was off colour not just Mahraj but most bowlers. Babar so far has as a good career as most great batsmen having played less than 40 tests, especially when you get to play test cricket once in a blue moon and hardly played at home.
 
Off topic but Inzi's century chasing down a mammoth 349 vs India though. Losing cause but still clutch....:imam
Difficult to imagine Babar playing something like that
His century on Australia was good too chasing a mammoth score albeit in losing case. Inzi as a batsman though was a higher level batsman.
 
His century in a tough chase against NZ in WC 2019

Like I mentioned that is the one innings that is worthwile otherwise I have not seen him play any other clutch innings. This surely cannot be the only innings to be brought up.
I can't imagine Babar chasing down mammoth totals though
 
I already said it was a good innings. But let's get one thing right, firstly India didn't have a great team for the 2019 WC and didn't deserve to win that world cup. They had passengers and washed up players in their middle order - the likes of Jadhav, Shankar, Pandey, Karthik and Pant who was very raw in LOIs (still is btw). It was always going to be get the top 3 out and the rest will fall like a pack of cards. Secondly, even with that vulnerable team, it was a choke in that semifinal despite the good bowling performance of NZ. Indian batsmen have always been vulnerable to swing and don't play it as good as they play pace and bounce, so India choking in that semifinal has no bearing on the fact that 230 was an underpar total by NZ against Pak. Babar did play a good innings to set up the chase, but chasing 250ish score is within Babar's ball park. What I want to see is Babar chasing a 300-320+ total where most often he has faltered.



Lol what's this fascination of Pak fans in comparing Babar with Kohli and Tendulkar. Tendulkar was certainly not the same player after his tennis elbow injury, but even then, he played plenty of great knocks after 2003. I remember Ponting saying Australia would take the CB series in 2 matches (in a best of 3 finals with India). Tendulkar carried India to victory in two matches in the CB series finals. Chasing 350 at Hyderabad, he scored 175 at a sr of 125 against Australia with little support at the other end, way back in 2009 when a sr of 100 was considered very good. And he had a great 2011 WC scoring 120 off 115 against England and 111 off 101 balls against South Africa. He was the 2nd leading run scorer in that world cup, just 20 short of top scorer Dilshan, all at 38 years of age. People remember his 2003 WC final and think he wasn't clutch.

He was one of the best clutch players in the game, he just wasn't as clutch as Sir Viv, who I consider to be the GOAT ODI batsman. I would rate Tendulkar better than Kohli till Virat starts producing the goods in the world cup as world cup performances define a lot of the legacy of ODI players. Tendulkar has one of the best ever world cup records in cricket history, which Virat hasn't come close to matching it. I mean, Sachin averaged 47 with the bat in the 1992 WC at just 18 years of age, was the top scorer in the 1996 WC at 23 years, was the top scorer again in the 2003 WC by a mile and player of that tournament and was the 2nd top scorer in the 2011 WC at 38 years of age. I don't think Kohli will ever match Tendulkar's world cup performances and comparing even a post 2003 Tendulkar with the current Babar is just silly.

That NZ bowling line up was easily the best in the tournament. I don't know what you're on about. They defended 240 vs England. Restricted Aus to 240. Destroyed India. It wasn't a one off thing. Their bowling lineup was good and in a must win match the innings was still played in quiet a bit of pressure on a not so easy pitch.
 
So are you implying he isn't a softie or that every other cricketer in Pakistan right now is softer than him :P

I'm pretty sure Mickie wasn't lying when he says Babar is the hardest working guy in the team. I'm sure he is. He's not a softie in those regards. But his mental fortitude is limited. It's just frustrating to see someone like Babar struggle because you know he is capable of much more. If he can hit those soft runs what's stopping him from hitting them when the team needs it. And him being soft isn't limited to his batting. You can see it in his captaincy too.

Babar can't be soft when he is one of the best in world as an all-format batsman. As simple as that.

You are accusing him for not scoring vs Zimbabwe? Had he put up a performance like 178, 85, 48, 143 over the series vs Zimbabwe which he is capable of, same people would have said that he is scoring hundreds for fun vs Zimbabwe but against top teams, he would have gotten out after scoring 50 odd.

Lapse of concentration is not softness. It is just an aspect of the game like many others and Babar needs to improve that. Mentality part is important in many more aspects of the game and Babar does well in a lot of those.

Joe Root also struggles with lapse of concentration but that doesn't make him a soft cricketer which is why he is a brilliant all-format batsman.
 
Only he did not flop in England and was probably o. His way to century before rain intervened as well as scoring a fifty before in a series cut short by rain.
Also he had no issue playing spin against SA in SA,. Stop using his struggles in Pakistan as he was just coming back from a long break from international cricket due to his injury, so he was off colour not just Mahraj but most bowlers. Babar so far has as a good career as most great batsmen having played less than 40 tests, especially when you get to play test cricket once in a blue moon and hardly played at home.

He did flop in England. He only played one meaningful innings and even that was just a baby half-century.

First Test, first innings: scored a fluent 69 before throwing his wicket away in a soft fashion which prevented Pakistan from batting England out of the game. Had he shown grit in that innings and scored a ton, Pakistan would probably have won.

First Test, second innings: got out for 5.

Second Test, first innings: dismissed for 47, which triggered a collapse.

Second Test, second innings: DNB

Third Test, first innings: got out for 11.

Third Test, second innings: 63 not out

That knock in the second innings of the third Test was completely useless because the game was done and dusted.

Overall, he clearly flopped in England for someone who is hailed as the best batsman in the world and was tipped to dominate England. He failed to play a single notable innings.

As far as the South African series is concerned, the excuse that he was rusty does not hold up.

He was comfortable against their pacers but struggled against the variations of Maharaj. He could not read his arm deliveries and it was an illustration of his poor skill again spin and not his rustiness.
 
His century on Australia was good too chasing a mammoth score albeit in losing case. Inzi as a batsman though was a higher level batsman.

That century vs Australia was the most selfish innings I have ever seen in international cricket. He was batting at a SR of 65 for the first half of his innings when Pakistan were chasing 370, and he was not even struggling. He simply had no intention of trying to chase down the total and was playing for his century.
 
Test cricket requires a lot of temperament, one small mistake can cost your entire team.

The reason Babar isn't doing well in test cricket is that batting against the depleted likes of Sri Lanka and Bangladesh meant that he could play all of his shots and bat at a very high strike rate (for test match standards) because the bowling was so abysmal.

From T20 and ODI cricket, he got the urge to always get bat on ball, and that type of approach is what will prevent him from being a good test cricketer.

Understanding the conditions is important as well, the likes of Williamson/Kohli/Smith/Root don't always play their trademark shots, and instead have to bat in a very gritty fashion to score runs. That 50 Kohli hit in that test against England this year was an example of a very gritty innings to get the team through on a difficult batting surface, I haven't seen a single innings of Babar where he doesn't rely on his natural shot selection and instead adapts to the demands of the wicket.

Younis Khan was a very gritty cricketer, always looked for singles and doubles and knew how to play the ball on its merit. The same with Misbah, he was also quite a reliable guy to steady the ship.

What most fans won't accept is that Babar's ceiling in test cricket isn't, and perhaps won't even be that high. His FC average of 40 is miles below that of his other competition, signalling that he hasn't really adapted to the format well at all.

What Babar needs is to go into the QEA Trophy and score runs methodically. He can't play tests with the same mindset of an ODI or T20. He will need to understand that certain wickets do not allow certain types of shots, and will need to also understand how to bat under pressure.
 
Babar played well in England and averaged nearly 50 in testing circumstances, Anderson himself stated that he felt very old when bowling to Babar. Mo Aamir averaged more then Kohli on their respective first tours of England, not the easiest place to Bat when you’re inexperienced

Babar didn’t play well in England as I explained in my reply to PakPremi. He only played only one half-decent innings and failed every time Pakistan needed him to step up. He had a completely impactless series and it was actually his second tour of England, not first.

A lot of was expected from him in England last year and he could not deliver.

Anderson is very humble and kind because he dominated Babar and dismissed him multiple times.
 
Test cricket requires a lot of temperament, one small mistake can cost your entire team.

The reason Babar isn't doing well in test cricket is that batting against the depleted likes of Sri Lanka and Bangladesh meant that he could play all of his shots and bat at a very high strike rate (for test match standards) because the bowling was so abysmal.

From T20 and ODI cricket, he got the urge to always get bat on ball, and that type of approach is what will prevent him from being a good test cricketer.

Understanding the conditions is important as well, the likes of Williamson/Kohli/Smith/Root don't always play their trademark shots, and instead have to bat in a very gritty fashion to score runs. That 50 Kohli hit in that test against England this year was an example of a very gritty innings to get the team through on a difficult batting surface, I haven't seen a single innings of Babar where he doesn't rely on his natural shot selection and instead adapts to the demands of the wicket.

Younis Khan was a very gritty cricketer, always looked for singles and doubles and knew how to play the ball on its merit. The same with Misbah, he was also quite a reliable guy to steady the ship.

What most fans won't accept is that Babar's ceiling in test cricket isn't, and perhaps won't even be that high. His FC average of 40 is miles below that of his other competition, signalling that he hasn't really adapted to the format well at all.

What Babar needs is to go into the QEA Trophy and score runs methodically. He can't play tests with the same mindset of an ODI or T20. He will need to understand that certain wickets do not allow certain types of shots, and will need to also understand how to bat under pressure.

Absolutely.

You cannot average 50+ in FC/Test cricket in Asia if you are good against spin. Whether you are Asian or non-Asian, any batsman who has a great record in Asia was/is very proficient against spin bowling.

Babar’s spin play is almost amateurish. He is hesitant to use his feet, doesn’t play the sweep well and struggles to read it out of the hand.

He is actually quite lucky that there is no bilateral cricket with India. Ashwin and Jadeja would do serious damage to his reputation and status as a premier batsman.
 
That NZ bowling line up was easily the best in the tournament. I don't know what you're on about. They defended 240 vs England. Restricted Aus to 240. Destroyed India. It wasn't a one off thing. Their bowling lineup was good and in a must win match the innings was still played in quiet a bit of pressure on a not so easy pitch.

230ish total against any average opposition would be a walk in the park, but as you're pointing out, NZ had a good bowling performance in that World cup and therefore it was a good performance in a tricky chase.

But was it memorable or iconic? Would you remember that knock after 10 years? Fakhar's CT final knock is what you would call as an iconic knock.
 
Inzi was a very very underrated LOI player. Played some excellent underpressure knocks. And that aura you talk about was also with Miandad like I said earlier. A batsman's capabilities will be judged more of how they perform according to certain situations. Babar's failures in those underpressure situations will always put him a rung below the best. Hope he can get past that.

Exactly mate, unfortunately I did see much of Javed but needless to say he was one of the best to have played the game and the kind of fighting spirit he brought with him. Just unbelievable.
 
Absolutely.

You cannot average 50+ in FC/Test cricket in Asia if you are good against spin. Whether you are Asian or non-Asian, any batsman who has a great record in Asia was/is very proficient against spin bowling.

Babar’s spin play is almost amateurish. He is hesitant to use his feet, doesn’t play the sweep well and struggles to read it out of the hand.

He is actually quite lucky that there is no bilateral cricket with India. Ashwin and Jadeja would do serious damage to his reputation and status as a premier batsman.

I agree, but he also has a big problem continuing where he leaves off. That 141 against Bangladesh should have been at least 200+ given how flat that pitch was. That 50 against England should have been converted into a 100+ score because the wicket had flattened out considerably. In all of these dismissals, he is playing the ball on the 5th stump line trying to drive it, and he failed every time.

A hallmark of a great player is the ability to capitalize on any opportunity present, and establishing dominance on any bowling attack in the world. When Williamson is dropped, he makes sure that the other team pays for their mistake. Look at how Williamson destroyed us on our tour to NZ, once he got set, he put his foot down on our neck and the match practically ended right there. Babar needs to learn how to punish bowling attacks, and he's not doing it in the right manner.

In test cricket, if you hit four great boundaries off of a bowler and they get you out, they're the winner of that contest. However, if you keep the bowlers in check, make them change their plans and make mistakes, that's when the batsman wins the battle.

He has a long way to go, and doesn't have much time before the next WTC to get his game in the right direction.

If Babar had to play on Indian spinning tracks, his record would be dented severely. Shot selection against spin is important, the sweep shot is necessary and so is reading the ball from the hand. If Babar couldn't differentiate Maharaj's arm-ball from his off-break, I wouldn't want to imagine how Babar would do against Ashwin.
 
Off topic but Inzi's century chasing down a mammoth 349 vs India though. Losing cause but still clutch....:imam
Difficult to imagine Babar playing something like that

That's a top example, back in 2005 a score of 350 was more like present day 450, against India in a high pressure match, losing 2 early Wickets, inzi and MoYo turned the game on its head.

Same series you might remember the knock he played at Ahmedabad. Last ball 4 to win the game when series was on the line... Nerves of STEEL. Can't imagine any current Pakistan player at that level, at least for now.
 
Babar can't be soft when he is one of the best in world as an all-format batsman. As simple as that.

You are accusing him for not scoring vs Zimbabwe? Had he put up a performance like 178, 85, 48, 143 over the series vs Zimbabwe which he is capable of, same people would have said that he is scoring hundreds for fun vs Zimbabwe but against top teams, he would have gotten out after scoring 50 odd.

Lapse of concentration is not softness. It is just an aspect of the game like many others and Babar needs to improve that. Mentality part is important in many more aspects of the game and Babar does well in a lot of those.

Joe Root also struggles with lapse of concentration but that doesn't make him a soft cricketer which is why he is a brilliant all-format batsman.

Ok let's define 'softie' here. A softie is someone who has no problem hitting runs when it's "easy" to do so. When the conditions are easy, bowlers not bowling with too much pressure, no scoreboard pressure. But when the chips are down, batting is tough, the bowler is on fire, there's scoreboard pressure, wickets falling on the other end more times than not the softie would bottle it. Where as a really good batsman would see it through.

Now I know choking and failures are obviously part of the game (even Bradman choked his final innings when he only needed 1 run for that 100 average), but there's an obvious pattern of babar failing to deliver when it matters most and that's where I'm getting at.

He's the most technically sound batsman in Pakistan cricket, arguably world cricket. Arguably, there's no batsman right now in the world today who's more of a pleasure to watch on song than Babar. Flowing cover drives and what not. What I WANT to see is Babar digging in deep. Playing those gritty innings when the toughness is forced out of a batsman. Or completely dismantling a bowling lineup so far as to not give the opposition to even make a chance of a comeback. THAT'S the Babar I want to see.

This isn't something new I've been saying. It's been a thing for the past 2 years. It's something of note by many experts before too. He's got to give justice to being in the top 10 in all formats. Easy runs vs Zimbabwe and Sri Lanka ain't gonna cut it. He definitely underperformed in the CWC 19 when it mattered besides that one innings. His legacy will be defined by the knocks that matter. Otherwise he'll be Amla 2.0 and honestly in my opinion he's better than that.
 
When you're chasing a score of 350 you expect your best batsman to bring his A game. When the team is 2 or 3 down early you expect your best batsman to stick through the tough periods and make a game of it. I know failures happen, not even the very best batsmen can deliver EVERY time but Babar has a tendency to throw it away especially when things are expected of him. He needs to start acting like a top notch player when it matters most. THAT is being clutch.
 
230ish total against any average opposition would be a walk in the park, but as you're pointing out, NZ had a good bowling performance in that World cup and therefore it was a good performance in a tricky chase.

But was it memorable or iconic? Would you remember that knock after 10 years? Fakhar's CT final knock is what you would call as an iconic knock.

I would disagree. Simply because an Iconic innings and clutch innings are 2 different things. Knowing our fragile batting line up which collapsed to Afghanistan chasing a similar sized total we needed someone to steer the innings vs the best bowling attack of the tournament. And that's exactly what he did. He STEERED the ship. Doesn't have to be WOW or ICONIC. As long as he can deliver when it's most needed that's what matters. He saw through the tough period where Ferguson was on fire and Santner was spinning it like it was an India vs England pitch. I can almost guarantee if Babar had gotten out early in that innings, Pakistan would have collapsed.
And that's the only time I've seen him play something clutch.
 
Soft in Test cricket yes. I cannot recall any knocks of substance under pressure and never feel any sense of security when he's out there.

The Manchester Test was classic Babar, batted like a dream for his fifty then a soft dismissal to Anderson first over on Day 2 meaning Pakistan scored only 320 instead of 400 allowing England back into the contest. He then gifts his wicket again in the 2nd innings when we lost early wickets and desperately needed a senior batsman to grit it out on a slightly uneven pitch.

Miandad, Inzamam and Younis would take us out of danger countless times in such situations. For all his talent and gaga over his cover drives, I cannot imagine Babar scoring a knock like Miandad in Guyana 1988 v WI, Inzamam in Karachi 1994 v AUS or Port Elizabeth 2007 v SAF, or Younis in Bangalore 2005 v IND.

He seems to especially struggle on slow wickets where he can't bat at his normal fluent tempo. He was one of the culprits in the defeats to Sri Lanka and New Zealand in 2017/2018 in UAE. His batting on these slow Harare pitches is the polar opposite to how he played on truer South African surfaces.

Nevertheless the problem is the expectations of Pakistani fans so hellbent on comparing him to the likes of Virat Kohli. The sooner you accept he's not in that class and is more of decent early to mid 40s Test averaging batsman (very good for our standards) the better.
 
Some good posts in here and I agree that Babar is soft at the moment in Test cricket.

In LOI's you can tell he is one of the best batsman in the world and he has scored vs everybody. In Tests, Babar is not consistent and he does not put a price on his wicket. He plays his beautiful shots, but neglects the defensive aspect and he loses concentration way too often.

He has failed to step up when Pakistan need him, he is the captain and star player - he has to take the responsibility now. We can't make excuses that he is inexperienced or batting too low now, his position is secure, he needs to start performing.

I think somebody here compared him to Asad Shafiq and currently, I agree with that assessment. Babar has the technique, the shots, and the skill, but this is meaningless if he can't score big and when it matters. He has many years left in his career, I hope he can start scoring big soon.
 
Shades of Umar Akmal in these Babar Azam threads. Fans always bringing up a particular century vs NZ in 2019 brings back memories of fans always defending Umar because he scored a 100 vs Malinga and a 100 vs Bond 'once upon a time'.
 
Shades of Umar Akmal in these Babar Azam threads. Fans always bringing up a particular century vs NZ in 2019 brings back memories of fans always defending Umar because he scored a 100 vs Malinga and a 100 vs Bond 'once upon a time'.

I mean that is ridiculously unfair. I think he's soft but I don't think he's a bad batsman and should never be compared to somebody like U Akmal
 
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I don't think it's just Babar who's soft. The entire team is. Babar is captain, so his 'softness' will rub off on his team but Pakistan has been pretty soft for a long long time.
When was the last time a Pakistan player went toe to toe with a player from Aus or any other top team. (maybe Wahab vs Watson but that was just a one off)

I mean players like Akhtar, Miandad loved the competition, intensity and the conflict in the game. It made them better players. Same said for Imran, Wasim, Waqar.

I love a player who can be ruthless and can go in for the kill. That's the level of competition one should achieve for and if Babar really is one of the top batsman around today he needs to show a little bit of that. I don't necessarily mean he should start sledging the opposition bowlers like Javed but at least give the bowlers that fear in the heart that "I shouldn't be someone you mess with"
 
I mean that is ridiculously unfair. I think he's soft but I don't think he's a **** batsman and should never be compared to somebody like U Akmal

I'm not comparing him to Umar Akmal.

I'm talking about the oft-referenced "Look look he scored a century against NZ chasing 230 years ago" as a fulcrum point of defence which reminded me of what posters used to do with Umar Akmal too.
 
I'm not comparing him to Umar Akmal.

I'm talking about the oft-referenced "Look look he scored a century against NZ chasing 230 years ago" as a fulcrum point of defence which reminded me of what posters used to do with Umar Akmal too.

I think the one thing media should stop doing is sucking up to him as well.
 
Test cricket requires a lot of temperament, one small mistake can cost your entire team.

The reason Babar isn't doing well in test cricket is that batting against the depleted likes of Sri Lanka and Bangladesh meant that he could play all of his shots and bat at a very high strike rate (for test match standards) because the bowling was so abysmal.

From T20 and ODI cricket, he got the urge to always get bat on ball, and that type of approach is what will prevent him from being a good test cricketer.

Understanding the conditions is important as well, the likes of Williamson/Kohli/Smith/Root don't always play their trademark shots, and instead have to bat in a very gritty fashion to score runs. That 50 Kohli hit in that test against England this year was an example of a very gritty innings to get the team through on a difficult batting surface, I haven't seen a single innings of Babar where he doesn't rely on his natural shot selection and instead adapts to the demands of the wicket.

Younis Khan was a very gritty cricketer, always looked for singles and doubles and knew how to play the ball on its merit. The same with Misbah, he was also quite a reliable guy to steady the ship.

What most fans won't accept is that Babar's ceiling in test cricket isn't, and perhaps won't even be that high. His FC average of 40 is miles below that of his other competition, signalling that he hasn't really adapted to the format well at all.

What Babar needs is to go into the QEA Trophy and score runs methodically. He can't play tests with the same mindset of an ODI or T20. He will need to understand that certain wickets do not allow certain types of shots, and will need to also understand how to bat under pressure.

This is exactly what I think about Babar. No doubt he is one of the best batsman in world right now, but he loses his concentration in tests.

I find much similarity between KL Rahul's and Babar's approach in test cricket. (Not saying who is better and who is not, just talking about approach).
Both have this urge to put bat on ball and play authoritative shots, inherited from their T20/ODI batting. But that needs to be checked/controlled constantly in test cricket and ball needs to be played on merit.

About playing clutch knocks, I think Babar still has years to do that. He'll turn 27 in few months. He should be playing by now which is not happening but I believe his time will come. Yes, he may not have as many gritty knocks to his name as fan expects. But I am sure he'll do better and register few knocks to his name by end of his career. Because that's what good players do.
 
Williamson's body language is soft but he's a masterful tactician, can't say the same about Babar.

Did u even read my post? I said Babar Azam has only negative similarities to top players. I never said Williamson isn't a master mind
 
He's failed against a weeker opposition and now he will come back strong against West indies.
 
It's really difficult to defend a batting performance like this when u r just 3 down. What exactly is Babar and Karachi 🤔
 
It is misleading to be OK with 125 strike rates when one has played 30+ balls. If a player is going to play 30+ balls, he must strike at 150+.

Babar cannot get away with 130 at the end of his innings.
 
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