[VIDEOS] Is Jasprit Bumrah overrated in ODIs?

[Technics 1210]

Beautiful.

That is some genius logic.

Genius is you claiming India plays for revenue and not wins, and bowler AVG/SR is more important that Wickets.

Bottom line, Bumrah is average, we know this because he has flopped in every ICC Final - and yes performance in crunch games is what seperates an average bowler from a great bowler.

 

[Technics 1210]

What use is an ability when it doesn't translate to titles in sports.

 

[Mamoon]

Genius is you claiming India plays for revenue and not wins, and bowler AVG/SR is more important that Wickets.

Bottom line, Bumrah is average, we know this because he has flopped in every ICC Final - and yes performance in crunch games is what seperates an average bowler from a great bowler.

Yes Bumrah is average and Pakistan is a better team than India.

 

[JAV12341]

Genius is you claiming India plays for revenue and not wins, and bowler AVG/SR is more important that Wickets.

Bottom line, Bumrah is average, we know this because he has flopped in every ICC Final - and yes performance in crunch games is what seperates an average bowler from a great bowler.

Bumrah is one of the greatest bowlers of all time who will India a World Cup before he retires.

Even wasim Akram stated bumrah is probably better than him. Learn to respect legends

 

[JAV12341]

Yes Bumrah is average and Pakistan is a better team than India. You are also a great poster.

Exactly some of these posts about bumrah the goat is shocking to see

 

[Technics 1210]

Shamelful comment bumrah is one of the greatest bowlers of all time who will India a World Cup before he retires.

Even wasim Akram stated bumrah is probably better than him. Learn to respect legends

Greatest of all time?

That title is only comes into discussion when careers are done and dusted - aka - when players retire and their career's are analyised.

Thus far Bumrah's analysis is that he has an unorthodox action, he is probably the best pace bowler out of India, and has failed in every ICC final that he has played in.

When Bumrah's career is over, then the debate on the greatest of all time can be discussed, but in the mean time, you can revel and celebrate his IPL performances.

 

[Mamoon]

and bowler AVG/SR is more important that Wickets.

Bowler A takes 7 wickets in 10 overs but concedes 80 runs

Bowler B takes 3 wickets in 10 overs but concedes 20 runs

Bowler B had a far, far better performance and only a fool would suggest otherwise. Ergo, bowling average and ER matter just like batting average and SR matter.

Bowling average and batting average in isolation mean absolutely nothing.

 

[Technics 1210]

Bowler A takes 7 wickets in 10 overs but concedes 80 runs

Bowler B takes 3 wickets in 10 overs but concedes 20 runs

Bowler B had a far, far better performance and only a fool would suggest otherwise. Ergo, bowling average and ER matter just like batting average and SR matter.

Bowling average and batting average in isolation mean absolutely nothing.

You know things are bad when you resort to hypotheticals.

The only thing that matters in sport is applying an ability to win titles; only then can one be considered in a GOAT debate.

Many sportsmen are considered great despite having inferior stats in their sporting vertical, simply because they perform in crunch games cos titles matter.

Now go back to celebrating revenue and SR/AVGs.

 

[Mamoon]

You know things are bad when you resort to hypotheticals.

The only thing that matters in sport is applying an ability to win titles; only then can one be considered in a GOAT debate.

Many sportsmen are considered great despite having inferior stats in their sporting vertical, simply because they perform in crunch games cos titles matter.

Now go back to celebrating revenue and SR/AVGs.

Thanks for failing to prove, with flying colors, why economy rate has no importance and only the wickets column matter.

It was expected. Jog along now.

Also, Munaf Patel >>>> Waqar “bottler” Younis.

 

[Technics 1210]

Thanks ......

Come back when Bumrah has retired, or when India win an ICC final because of his "ability", in the meantime, please do bhangra over his IPL stats and remember:

Wins > Revenue
Wickets > AVG/SR

 

[Rajdeep]

I remember there were few posters here who used to have low opinion on Bumrah when he was out injured. They were like well okay he is a good bowler but no where near Shaheen Afridi, he can't pick wickets with new ball, loses his mind when batsmen goes after him, never performs against Pakistan etc etc. I myself was indulge in many such debates trying to prove why they were so wrong but they simply won't listen to me (as always). Then Asia cup & World cup happen and those posters either accepted they were wrong or simply maintained pedestrian distance from this Bumrah topic since then or probably still watching in awe those 2 deliveries bowled to Rizwan and Shadab Khan. Whatever the reason is, it is now widely accepted in this forum that Bumrah is a class bowler. So I am bit surprised that a new set of people appeared here today once again repeating the same mistake i.e questioning a bowler of Bumrah's calibre. Looks like some simply don't learn or refuse to learn.

I totally agree with @Mamoon that Bumrah will go down as the greatest bowler from Asia along with Wasim Akram. Infact, I will go a level up and claim if he retires tomorrow, he will still be 2nd best asian fast bowler EVER after Wasim. Remember, he is playing in a batting friendly era, an era where even though Virat outscored Sachin's ODI hundreds record but those 49 centuries by Sachin probably worth 70 now. Not that I am demeaning Virat's achievement but it is a fact that batting has simply become easier. In an era like this to have the kind of record that Bumrah has and that too across all 3 formats, not sure how can anyone deny his greatness. It is either lack of understanding of the game, blind patriotic bias or simply trolling.

The GOAT bumrah...the silent assassin, remember the name

 

[JAV12341]

I remember there were few posters here who used to have low opinion on Bumrah when he was out injured. They were like well okay he is a good bowler but no where near Shaheen Afridi, he can't pick wickets with new ball, loses his mind when batsmen goes after him, never performs against Pakistan etc etc. I myself was indulge in many such debates trying to prove why they were so wrong but they simply won't listen to me (as always). Then Asia cup & World cup happen and those posters either accepted they were wrong or simply maintained pedestrian distance from this Bumrah topic since then or probably still watching in awe those 2 deliveries bowled to Rizwan and Shadab Khan. Whatever the reason is, it is now widely accepted in this forum that Bumrah is a class bowler. So I am bit surprised that a new set of people appeared here today once again repeating the same mistake i.e questioning a bowler of Bumrah's calibre. Looks like some simply don't learn or refuse to learn.

I totally agree with @Mamoon that Bumrah will go down as the greatest bowler from Asia along with Wasim Akram. Infact, I will go a level up and claim if he retires tomorrow, he will still be 2nd best asian fast bowler EVER after Wasim. Remember, he is playing in a batting friendly era, an era where even though Virat outscored Sachin's ODI hundreds record but those 49 centuries by Sachin probably worth 70 now. Not that I am demeaning Virat's achievement but it is a fact that batting has simply become easier. In an era like this to have the kind of record that Bumrah has and that too across all 3 formats, not sure how can anyone deny his greatness. It is either lack of understanding of the game, blind patriotic bias or simply trolling.

The GOAT bumrah...the silent assassin, remember the name

Spot on analysis the amount t that bumrah has achieved as a bower is unbelievable. Has won India the Asia cup and has been the reason why India have won test series in Australia. The list is endless.

Like I said Bumrah will definitely win India a World Cup before he retires I think the t20 World Cup India is destined to win.

Definitely will go down in history as the GOAT alongside Akram. Akram himself says Bumrah is as good as him if not better

 

[160KPH]

Bumrah has only played 7 more ODIs than Shane Bond. If you’re putting Bumrah in the conversation with the greats then Shane Bond is the greatest bowler of all time. He had a better average, strike rate, and economy than Bumrah and he destroyed the legendary Australian team on multiple occasions. Bumrah is a great bowler, but stop being overly dramatic. There has been tons of bowlers who have incredible starts to their career. What separates those bowlers from the greats is that the greats do it for a long period of time.

And this is also true if you ask the average cricket fan. No one will ever put Bumrah in the same league as Wasim, Waqar, and Imran. All of those guys record suffered as they got older, but if you look at their stats through the early parts of their career when they were at their best, they are even above Bumrah by that metric. But the truth is, Indian cricket has never been gifted with great fast bowlers which is why there’s a desire to overrate him to put him in the conversation with other greats.

If Bumrah continued this performance while playing consistently for another 5 years, then he could enter the discussion.

 

[160KPH]

Bumrah is better than Akhtar, Waqar and Imran. Only behind Wasim but not because he is less skilled but because Wasim had amazing longevity with the same level of skill.

Wasim and Bumrah are undoubtedly the two best fast bowlers in Asian cricket history.

Are you making a distinction between “better” and “greater”? By your logic, Shane Bond is without a doubt the best bowler to ever play ODIs and maybe the best bowler ever. He had far more pace than Bumrah along with every other skill and in terms of his record he has a better average, strike rate, and economy. He only played 7 less ODIs than Bumrah has. Additionally he has the second lowest strike rate of all time, I believe, with a minimum of 2500 delivers for any bowler in Test history.

Waqar and Imran Khan are far greater than Bumrah. But if you want to say Bumrah is “better” then much of the will inherently be subjective based upon how you rate their skills and ability.

 

[Mamoon]

Are you making a distinction between “better” and “greater”? By your logic, Shane Bond is without a doubt the best bowler to ever play ODIs and maybe the best bowler ever. He had far more pace than Bumrah along with every other skill and in terms of his record he has a better average, strike rate, and economy. He only played 7 less ODIs than Bumrah has. Additionally he has the second lowest strike rate of all time, I believe, with a minimum of 2500 delivers for any bowler in Test history.

Waqar and Imran Khan are far greater than Bumrah. But if you want to say Bumrah is “better” then much of the will inherently be subjective based upon how you rate their skills and ability.

Waqar and Imran bowled with doctored balls that were tampered with bottle caps. They also bowled to batting lineups that ended after 6 wickets because the WK and the bowlers couldn’t hold a bat.

Waqar made a career out of tampered balls. Those banana swing yorkers were produced with balls that umpires today would not allow.

Waqar only learned to bowl with a non-tampered, new ball at the tail-end of his career and although he would take wickets (7 fer and 6 fer in consecutive ODIs in Natwest series 2001), he would frequently go for a lot of runs because he would bowl a full length that batsmen had little trouble dispatching to the boundary especially when there was no reverse-swing.

Imran was no doubt a better bowler than Waqar with superior control, but if you put him, Waqar and Bumrah in the same lineup, there is no way Bumrah doesn’t outshine them both.

Bumrah would those doctored balls would be even more unplayable than he is today. His control and length are just immaculate. He is extremely difficult to hit even today in this power hitting era; just imagine his economy rate and figures in the 80s and 90s.

He would be averaging 19-20 with an economy rate of less than 2.

Shane Bond is actually my favorite bowler ever. His career is one of the great tragedies of cricket. Without the injuries, he would have gone down as one of the top 5 fast bowlers of all time and would be remembered in the same breath as the likes of McGrath, Wasim, Marshall, Ambrose etc.

 

[captain.hansolo]

If Bumrah is average than every bowler in Pakistan history except Wasim is also average. You must have extraordinary standards if you find Bumrah average.

Of course, we all know that your problem with Bumrah is not his bowling or his action but your problem is his nationality.

Put a green top on him and suddenly he becomes an elite fast bowler.

The difference between him and Murali is that Murali was a blatant chucker who should have been banned forever in 1995-1996 while Bumrah’s action is unorthodox but clean as a whistle.

He doesn’t have extraordinary standards, he has selective sampling to propagate his anti India agenda. But that’s cool, whatever helps him sleep at night.

 

[160KPH]

Waqar and Imran bowled with doctored balls that were tampered with bottle caps. They also bowled to batting lineups that ended after 6 wickets because the WK and the bowlers couldn’t hold a bat.

Waqar made a career out of tampered balls. Those banana swing yorkers were produced with balls that umpires today would not allow.

Waqar only learned to bowl with a non-tampered, new ball at the tail-end of his career and although he would take wickets (7 fer and 6 fer in consecutive ODIs in Natwest series 2001), he would frequently go for a lot of runs because he would bowl a full length that batsmen had little trouble dispatching to the boundary especially when there was no reverse-swing.

Imran was no doubt a better bowler than Waqar with superior control, but if you put him, Waqar and Bumrah in the same lineup, there is no way Bumrah doesn’t outshine them both.

Bumrah would those doctored balls would be even more unplayable than he is today. His control and length are just immaculate. He is extremely difficult to hit even today in this power hitting era; just imagine his economy rate and figures in the 80s and 90s.

He would be averaging 19-20 with an economy rate of less than 2.

Shane Bond is actually my favorite bowler ever. His career is one of the great tragedies of cricket. Without the injuries, he would have gone down as one of the top 5 fast bowlers of all time and would be remembered in the same breath as the likes of McGrath, Wasim, Marshall, Ambrose etc.

Firstly, the argument that you’re making is the one that you always hate and dispute when it comes to batsmen. Whenever someone says batsmen back then were better because they played with smaller bats, with balls that were more tampered, and on tougher pitches, you always say that the likes of Kohli would have dominated back then as well. The opposite side would argue batsmen back then were more skilled at playing good bowling because of such conditions and thus Bumrah would not have performed as well.

In fact, if we look at the numbers, we are in one of the most bowler dominant eras in Test cricket history. I don’t have the updated numbers for 2023 but S Rajesh wrote an amazing article article about this:

1) The bowling strike rate in Test cricket between 2018 - 2022 was the lowest in any 4 year span in the history of Test cricket.

2) The bowling average in Test cricket was the lowest of any four year span in 60 years.

3) There has never been a 4 year period where there were 8 bowlers with 100+ wickets and a sub 25 average.

If it was so easy to bowl back then compared to now, then why is it that bowling strikes rate and averages are all lower in the last 4 years than they were back then? And why are there more bowlers averaging below 25 than any time in history?

We can go back and forth on these types of arguments but I don’t find them fruitful. That’s why I think for the most part it’s useless to compare across eras. It’s best to compare how good bowlers were compared to their peers at the time and how far ahead they were.

I have no doubt that Bumrah would have been a good bowler back then as well. But if we are talking about the totality of his career and his greatness, I can’t give him credit for how good I believe he would have been back then. I can only give him credit for what he has accomplished. He has a very good record but to be mentioned with the legends of the game you have to also have built up a large enough resume to be compared to them. If you want to argue that Bumrah is “better” than Imran and Waqar, then it’s hard for me to argue because then it’ll be a subjective battle between both of our eye tests on who we see as more skilled. But if we you want to talk about “greatness” then Imran Khan has nearly 3x as many wickets as Bumrah has with nearly the same average. And Waqar has similarly almost 3x as many wickets with a ridiculous strike rates.

 

[Buffet]

Bumrah is better than Akhtar, Waqar and Imran. Only behind Wasim but not because he is less skilled but because Wasim had amazing longevity with the same level of skill.

Wasim and Bumrah are undoubtedly the two best fast bowlers in Asian cricket history.

In limited overs sure, Bumrah has done enough and shown enough to be rated ahead of IK. In test, some way to go.

Against Waqar, Bumrah has done enough to go ahead despite half way in his career.

Waqar's career ER - 4.7 ( 220-240 used to be average score ) - SR was 30
Bumrah ER - 4.6 ( teams are scoring 300-350 for fun) -- SR is 30

Gap is very huge in ODI format. Anyone putting these two in shorter format together doesn't understand cricket. Waqar was actually better in test format in his early years, but Bumrah is just superior.

Against 3 strong batting sides (Aus, Ind, SA - 46 innings) - Waqar has grand total of just 1 5-fer home and away combined. Only good batting side he had success was against WI team. On top of that, Waqar was just useless with new ball.

Bumrah already has many 5-fers in den of strong sides and instrumental in away series performance of India. Two series wins in Aus wouldn't have come if Bumrah had not debuted. Few more of them it will look lopsided comparison even in test.

No way he is at the same level as Wasim because Wasim was good in both formats, he could also use new and old ball both and he was good for very long time. IK was not at same level as any great bowler in his first 25-30 tests, but he was simply gun in the middle phase in test. So Bumrah has to do some more to overtake IK in test.

Skill wise, it's all subjective and you can rate anywhere. I am strictly talking based on output.

 

[kron]

What use is an ability when it doesn't translate to titles in sports.

Already played 2 odi world cups. Last chance 2027. T20 is a joke format so it doesn't hold as much value. Bumrah needs to help india win a wtc or odi to be rated as high as wasim etc.

 

[JAV12341]

Already played 2 odi world cups. Last chance 2027. T20 is a joke format so it doesn't hold as much value. Bumrah needs to help india win a wtc or odi to be rated as high as wasim etc.

Has made India win countless tournaments and number 1 team in every format. Even when wasim Akram won pakistan the World Cup there was a lot of luck involved if it wasn’t for the rained match against England pakistan would be without a World Cup trophy and you would rate bumrah higher the double standards are staunch here.

He’s taken India to 2 WTC finals unlucky not to win 1 of them and deserved to win the ODI World Cup just had a bad day at the wrong time. Bumrah will win India the next World Cup and a couple more ICC champions trophy and go down in history as the goat

 

[160KPH]

Has made India win countless tournaments and number 1 team in every format. Even when wasim Akram won pakistan the World Cup there was a lot of luck involved if it wasn’t for the rained match against England pakistan would be without a World Cup trophy and you would rate bumrah higher the double standards are staunch here.

He’s taken India to 2 WTC finals unlucky not to win 1 of them and deserved to win the ODI World Cup just had a bad day at the wrong time. Bumrah will win India the next World Cup and a couple more ICC champions trophy and go down in history as the goat

First let him win a single ICC tournament before you start proclaiming he will win the next WC and multiple ICC Champion’s Trophy.

 

[Ab Fan]

Cummins is not better in tests, its just that he played a lot more while Bumrah was injured for a long time

Cummins can't pick wickets in India, that's always gonna count against him

Yeah played more , captained the sides, did basically all this captaining the side. That counts as longevity. Bumrah was injured for an year.

 

[Rajdeep]

Bumrah has only played 7 more ODIs than Shane Bond. If you’re putting Bumrah in the conversation with the greats then Shane Bond is the greatest bowler of all time. He had a better average, strike rate, and economy than Bumrah and he destroyed the legendary Australian team on multiple occasions. Bumrah is a great bowler, but stop being overly dramatic. There has been tons of bowlers who have incredible starts to their career. What separates those bowlers from the greats is that the greats do it for a long period of time.

And this is also true if you ask the average cricket fan. No one will ever put Bumrah in the same league as Wasim, Waqar, and Imran. All of those guys record suffered as they got older, but if you look at their stats through the early parts of their career when they were at their best, they are even above Bumrah by that metric. But the truth is, Indian cricket has never been gifted with great fast bowlers which is why there’s a desire to overrate him to put him in the conversation with other greats.

If Bumrah continued this performance while playing consistently for another 5 years, then he could enter the discussion.

Below are the stats of test cricket in SENAW countries for these respective bowlers:

Wasim
M - 41
wk - 181
avg - 24.67

Waqar
M - 36
wk - 137
avg - 28.39

Akhtar
M - 12
wk - 39
avg - 30.12

Imran
M - 37
wk - 157
avg - 26.11

Bumrah
M - 26
wk - 114
avg - 22.77

Not only his stats are better but Bumrah won his team 2 test series in Australia which others couldn't. Also, he accumulated those stats by bowling in a batting friendly era. Had he played during 90s, his stats perhaps would have been even better. So all those people who you know that would NEVER put Bumrah along with Wasim, Waqar or Imran are either don't understand this sport of simply biased.

 

[160KPH]

Below are the stats of test cricket in SENAW countries for these respective bowlers:

Wasim
M - 41
wk - 181
avg - 24.67

Waqar
M - 36
wk - 137
avg - 28.39

Akhtar
M - 12
wk - 39
avg - 30.12

Imran
M - 37
wk - 157
avg - 26.11

Bumrah
M - 26
wk - 114
avg - 22.77

Not only his stats are better but Bumrah won his team 2 test series in Australia which others couldn't. Also, he accumulated those stats by bowling in a batting friendly era. Had he played during 90s, his stats perhaps would have been even better. So all those people who you know that would NEVER put Bumrah along with Wasim, Waqar or Imran are either don't understand this sport of simply biased.

That’s some extreme desperation to look at “SENAW” countries only but the agenda is pretty obvious. Firstly, the reason you chose to choose add West Indies into the usual grouping of SENA countries is because Bumrah went there and took 13 wickets at 9.23 average against the weakest West Indies team in history. Imran/Waqar/Wasim were facing the most dominant cricket team in history when they were facing West Indies with the likes of Sir Vivian Richards batting. Bumrah was facing the West Indies when they were ranked #8 in Test cricket and were unable to even qualify for the next ODI WC. Also I have no clue why I should take away credit from Wasim/Waqar/Imran for their amazing records in Pakistan on very flat pitches - not to mention their amazing record in the rest of the subcontinent.

Also Bumrah bowled in the most bowling dominant time in the history of Test cricket - not the most batting dominant.

2018 - 2022 in Test cricket was a 4 year span with:

1) The lowest bowling strike rate in the history of Test cricket.

2) The lowest bowling average in the last 60 years of Test cricket.

There’s literally more sub 25 average bowlers in Test cricket than any time in history. I’m not sure why you would make this up when anyone can go check these numbers quite easily:

So if anything, you have it completely opposite. If Wasim was bowling in today’s era with the lowest bowling strike rate of all time he would have had an even better record. Bumrah has the advantage of playing in such an era. Today’s Test batsmen have incredibly deteriorated techniques in Teat cricket due to the rise of T20 and ODI.

Also India won the match in the Gabba on the 2021 Test Series without Bumrah with the following bowling lineup:

1) Siraj
2) Natarajan
3) Thakur
4) Sundar

So to give Bumrah all the credit for those series against Australia is quite ridiculous considering India managed to win at the Gabba with a the horrible bowling lineup above. Don’t worry though, if you hope hard enough, one day India may produce a bowler who is skilled enough and avoids injury for long enough to be mentioned alongside the great Wasim Akram. Until then though, keep dreaming.

 

[160KPH]

You know things are bad when you resort to hypotheticals.

The only thing that matters in sport is applying an ability to win titles; only then can one be considered in a GOAT debate.

Many sportsmen are considered great despite having inferior stats in their sporting vertical, simply because they perform in crunch games cos titles matter.

Now go back to celebrating revenue and SR/AVGs.

What confuses me is that if it is true that bowling average and strike rate mean nothing in isolation then why don’t Bumrah fans add the context that Bumrah is bowling in the most bowling dominant era of Test cricket history:

Bowling average and strike rate in Test cricket are lower than they ever have been from 2018-2022! There has never in the history of cricket been this many bowlers averaging below 25 in Test!

Wasim/Waqar/Imran were all bowling in a much much harder era for bowlers. In fact, arguably the most difficult time to bowl was around 2003-2010 when Shoaib Akhtar was bowling. It could be said that Wasim would have destroyed the batsmen of today because of the deterioration in Test technique due to the rise of T20 and ODI.

 

[Rajdeep]

That’s some extreme desperation to look at “SENAW” countries only but the agenda is pretty obvious. Firstly, the reason you chose to choose add West Indies into the usual grouping of SENA countries is because Bumrah went there and took 13 wickets at 9.23 average against the weakest West Indies team in history. Imran/Waqar/Wasim were facing the most dominant cricket team in history when they were facing West Indies with the likes of Sir Vivian Richards batting. Bumrah was facing the West Indies when they were ranked #8 in Test cricket and were unable to even qualify for the next ODI WC. Also I have no clue why I should take away credit from Wasim/Waqar/Imran for their amazing records in Pakistan on very flat pitches - not to mention their amazing record in the rest of the subcontinent.

Also Bumrah bowled in the most bowling dominant time in the history of Test cricket - not the most batting dominant.

2018 - 2022 in Test cricket was a 4 year span with:

1) The lowest bowling strike rate in the history of Test cricket.

2) The lowest bowling average in the last 60 years of Test cricket.

There’s literally more sub 25 average bowlers in Test cricket than any time in history. I’m not sure why you would make this up when anyone can go check these numbers quite easily:

So if anything, you have it completely opposite. If Wasim was bowling in today’s era with the lowest bowling strike rate of all time he would have had an even better record. Bumrah has the advantage of playing in such an era. Today’s Test batsmen have incredibly deteriorated techniques in Teat cricket due to the rise of T20 and ODI.

Also India won the match in the Gabba on the 2021 Test Series without Bumrah with the following bowling lineup:

1) Siraj
2) Natarajan
3) Thakur
4) Sundar

So to give Bumrah all the credit for those series against Australia is quite ridiculous considering India managed to win at the Gabba with a the horrible bowling lineup above. Don’t worry though, if you hope hard enough, one day India may produce a bowler who is skilled enough and avoids injury for long enough to be mentioned alongside the great Wasim Akram. Until then though, keep dreaming.

There is no agenda. Even if you take out West Indies, his stats and avg in SENA is still better than other 4. Basically, Bumrah in SENA is better than other 4 in SENA+W. If you insisting to include the test matches at home, Bumrah's stats lookes even better. I know its tough for you to digest but stats are stats bro which you can't argue against.

And LOL @ test cricket between 2018-2022 was most bowling dominant. Is that is the reason India chased down massive target in Gabba, a fortress where Australia was unbeaten for 4 decades? Or drew a test match in Sydney on the final day when Aussie bowler's couldn't get out Ashwin and Vihary?

You can twist your argument any way you want but Bumrah would still remain the 2nd best test bowler in Asia unfortunately.

 

[160KPH]

First you say:

I know its tough for you to digest but stats are stats bro which you can't argue against.

Then you say:

And LOL @ test cricket between 2018-2022 was most bowling dominant. Is that is the reason India chased down massive target in Gabba, a fortress where Australia was unbeaten for 4 decades? Or drew a test match in Sydney on the final day when Aussie bowler's couldn't get out Ashwin and Vihary?

If you care about the stats then you should not become emotional when it is revealed to you that 2018 - 2022 was the best 4 year time period for bowling in the entire history of Test cricket. Both the bowling average and strike rates during this time were the lowest in the entire history of Test cricket. You mentioning just one or two matches on one tour does not define an era.

Don’t worry, I’m sure all Indian cricket fans will agree with you that Bumrah is the greatest. But unfortunately, no one from any other cricketing nation will. I know it’s tough to digest.

 

[Rajdeep]

First time I am hearing the argument that batting in modern era has become tougher

I mean we have always heard the argument that flat pitch, wider bats & smaller boundaries meant batting in modern day has become easier. This idea was mostly float around to dismiss Indian batsmen and how the likes of Kohli, Sharma etc would make the cut had they played in 90s. It was always a safe argument for years as Indians hardly produce any bowler to make cross era comparisons.

Jasprit Bumrah came out of syllabus, outperform all other SENA bowlers and suddenly this era becomes bowling friendly and how he would not have made any impact in 90s

 

[160KPH]

First time I am hearing the argument that batting in modern era has become tougher

I mean we have always heard the argument that flat pitch, wider bats & smaller boundaries meant batting in modern day has become easier. This idea was mostly float around to dismiss Indian batsmen and how the likes of Kohli, Sharma etc would make the cut had they played in 90s. It was always a safe argument for years as Indians hardly produce any bowler to make cross era comparisons.

Jasprit Bumrah came out of syllabus, outperform all other SENA bowlers and suddenly this era becomes bowling friendly and how he would not have made any impact in 90s

Unfortunately, no matter how much you don’t want it to be true, reality doesn’t change. It’s embarrassing to witness you so desperate to dodge the point - why was bowling strike rate and average in Teat the lowest in history from 2018 to 2022? Why were there more bowlers with a sub 25 average than any time in history during this time period?

2003-2010 was one of the most difficult eras for bowling in general. 2018-2022 was the easiest time period for Test bowling, but one of the more difficult eras for ODI bowling. That’s partially because as techniques have become more focused on LOI cricket there is less of a focus on the fundamentals and defensive techniques that lead to success in Test cricket.

But anyway, I think you’re probably just desperate to try to justify Bumrah’s ability because he melted down spectacularly at home in the Semi Final and Final so I’ll give you some space to recover from those embarrassing losses.

 

[Rajdeep]

Unfortunately, no matter how much you don’t want it to be true, reality doesn’t change. It’s embarrassing to witness you so desperate to dodge the point - why was bowling strike rate and average in Teat the lowest in history from 2018 to 2022? Why were there more bowlers with a sub 25 average than any time in history during this time period?

2003-2010 was one of the most difficult eras for bowling in general. 2018-2022 was the easiest time period for Test bowling, but one of the more difficult eras for ODI bowling. That’s partially because as techniques have become more focused on LOI cricket there is less of a focus on the fundamentals and defensive techniques that lead to success in Test cricket.

But anyway, I think you’re probably just desperate to try to justify Bumrah’s ability because he melted down spectacularly at home in the Semi Final and Final so I’ll give you some space to recover from those embarrassing losses.

I am clearly not following your line of argument and trying to understand what is embarrassing about it. The stats are clearly showing Bumrah is a better bowler than W's, Akhtar & Imran. These stats are real and not manufactured by me. Then you asked me to exclude WI and include home tests as WI are no longer the team they were once and bowling in flat decks at home counts as well. Fair enough, I did that and even with those parameters Bumrah is ahead. What is this cherry picking of SR & Avg for 2018-2022 and how that is relevant to this discussion? There can be many factors behind it - teams like SL, Zim & Pak has declined in batting, India & BD produces rank turners at home to get teams out cheaply etc etc. which impact overall Strike rate and bowling avg. How does that impact or demean Bumrah's performance in SENA countries against SENA teams or his performance at home on those rank turners?

 

[160KPH]

What is this cherry picking of SR & Avg for 2018-2022 and how that is relevant to this discussion?

You are the one who first brought up the era and claimed it was a batting friendly era.

Also, he accumulated those stats by bowling in a batting friendly era. Had he played during 90s, his stats perhaps would have been even better.

Then I provided you the numbers showing 2018-2022 is the time period of the lowest bowling strike rate and average in the history of Test cricket. How can you claim that it is a “batting friendly era” when this has been the most successful era in the entire history of Test cricket for bowlers?

There can be many factors behind it - teams like SL, Zim & Pak has declined in batting, India & BD produces rank turners at home to get teams out cheaply etc etc

This is a flawed explanation because bowling averages are down in every single country aside from New Zealand. Australia, South Africa, and England have all experienced dramatic drops in the bowling averages for matches played in those countries. West Indies has experienced one of the biggest drops.

Also, this was not even the argument I was originally making. Bumrah to me is a world class bowler who is is probably the best ODI bowler in the world right now, and probably a top 3 Test bowler right now. I was saying that if he wants to be among the all time greatest bowlers then he has to continue this performance for a longer period of time.

Bumrah has bowled for 4 years and he’s played 30 Test matches, taken 128 wickets at an average of 21.99 and a SR of 48.9.

In Waqar’s first 4 years, he played 26 matches, took 179 wickets at an average of 18.55 and a SR of 36.2.

Imran Khan only played 4 Test matches in his first 4 years but in the 1980s Imran Khan literally had a 7 year span of bowling where he played 35 matches, took 184 wickets at an average of 15.92 and a SR of 42.2.

Bumrah has literally only been played for 4 years so far during the prime bowling years of his life - during a time where bowlers have had the best stats in the entire history of Test cricket. Imran and Waqar had way better primes than Bumrah had in Test cricket. In fact, there are plenty of bowlers with as good or better 4 year runs than Bumrah has had. What separates good from greatness is how long players can sustain this level of performance. If Bumrah can maintain this level of performance for another 4-6 years? Then he would be in the conversation amongst the greatest. As of right now, 128 wickets does not even get you into the discussion.

 

[BouncerGuy]

This thread is about Jasprit bumrah. Why are you guys bringing ball-tempering stuff here related to irrelevant players in this thread?

Please stay on topic.

 

[kron]

You are the one who first brought up the era and claimed it was a batting friendly era.

Then I provided you the numbers showing 2018-2022 is the time period of the lowest bowling strike rate and average in the history of Test cricket. How can you claim that it is a “batting friendly era” when this has been the most successful era in the entire history of Test cricket for bowlers?

This is a flawed explanation because bowling averages are down in every single country aside from New Zealand. Australia, South Africa, and England have all experienced dramatic drops in the bowling averages for matches played in those countries. West Indies has experienced one of the biggest drops.

Also, this was not even the argument I was originally making. Bumrah to me is a world class bowler who is is probably the best ODI bowler in the world right now, and probably a top 3 Test bowler right now. I was saying that if he wants to be among the all time greatest bowlers then he has to continue this performance for a longer period of time.

Bumrah has bowled for 4 years and he’s played 30 Test matches, taken 128 wickets at an average of 21.99 and a SR of 48.9.

In Waqar’s first 4 years, he played 26 matches, took 179 wickets at an average of 18.55 and a SR of 36.2.

Imran Khan only played 4 Test matches in his first 4 years but in the 1980s Imran Khan literally had a 7 year span of bowling where he played 35 matches, took 184 wickets at an average of 15.92 and a SR of 42.2.

Bumrah has literally only been played for 4 years so far during the prime bowling years of his life - during a time where bowlers have had the best stats in the entire history of Test cricket. Imran and Waqar had way better primes than Bumrah had in Test cricket. In fact, there are plenty of bowlers with as good or better 4 year runs than Bumrah has had. What separates good from greatness is how long players can sustain this level of performance. If Bumrah can maintain this level of performance for another 4-6 years? Then he would be in the conversation amongst the greatest. As of right now, 128 wickets does not even get you into the discussion.

Concur with this. If he can help india win a series in SA and potentially England then I will put him up there with wasim provided he can continue to maintain his average for 4 to 5 more years to fulfil the longevity quota too.

Bit more to go. Great bowler.

But he has a tendency to go missing in crucial games. 2017 champions trophy
Guess he was young then
Failed in wtc 1 post injury
Did good in 2019 wc semis
Did pretty good in 2023 finals but not so good in semis.
Choked in t20 2022 as well

In England final test failed to defend 378 as captain.

Also failed in 3rd test vs SA 2022.

Great test bowler and very good in odi.

But average in t20 tbh.

 

[Ab Fan]

Top 5 Asian bowlers in ODIs :-

1. Wasim Akram
2. Muttiah Muralitharan
3. Jasprit Bumrah
4. Mohammad Shami
5. Saqlain Mushtaq

Performance in World Cup given more weightage. Wasim and Murali were top two but since Wasim had a World Cup Final MOM, he gets the #1 rank ahead of Murali.

Bumrah, Saqlain, Waqar and Shami are other strong contenders who average under 25 and have played atleast two ODI World Cups. Of the four, neither are World Cup winners but Bumrah and Shami have superior World Cup records than Waqar and Saqlain, Waqar being dropped from the team in 1999 WC while Saqlain failed to even survive 10 years of international career or 2 complete World Cups like Murali, Wasim, Bumrah and Shami did.

Bumrah and Shami complete the top 4 with excellent World Cups behind them and averaging 23 and 24 each with Shami particularly having a tremendous World Cup record and Bumrah having a GOAT level economy of 4.5 in this era inspite of being #1 choice in death overs bowling. Saqlain gets a #5 spot, just ahead of Waqar.

Other major contenders were Vaas, Kapil, Akhtar, Malinga, Kuldeep and Imran. But their average was over 25. Siraj doesn't make it due to low sample.

 

[Mamoon]

Firstly, the argument that you’re making is the one that you always hate and dispute when it comes to batsmen. Whenever someone says batsmen back then were better because they played with smaller bats, with balls that were more tampered, and on tougher pitches, you always say that the likes of Kohli would have dominated back then as well. The opposite side would argue batsmen back then were more skilled at playing good bowling because of such conditions and thus Bumrah would not have performed as well.

In fact, if we look at the numbers, we are in one of the most bowler dominant eras in Test cricket history. I don’t have the updated numbers for 2023 but S Rajesh wrote an amazing article article about this:

1) The bowling strike rate in Test cricket between 2018 - 2022 was the lowest in any 4 year span in the history of Test cricket.

2) The bowling average in Test cricket was the lowest of any four year span in 60 years.

3) There has never been a 4 year period where there were 8 bowlers with 100+ wickets and a sub 25 average.

If it was so easy to bowl back then compared to now, then why is it that bowling strikes rate and averages are all lower in the last 4 years than they were back then? And why are there more bowlers averaging below 25 than any time in history?

We can go back and forth on these types of arguments but I don’t find them fruitful. That’s why I think for the most part it’s useless to compare across eras. It’s best to compare how good bowlers were compared to their peers at the time and how far ahead they were.

I have no doubt that Bumrah would have been a good bowler back then as well. But if we are talking about the totality of his career and his greatness, I can’t give him credit for how good I believe he would have been back then. I can only give him credit for what he has accomplished. He has a very good record but to be mentioned with the legends of the game you have to also have built up a large enough resume to be compared to them. If you want to argue that Bumrah is “better” than Imran and Waqar, then it’s hard for me to argue because then it’ll be a subjective battle between both of our eye tests on who we see as more skilled. But if we you want to talk about “greatness” then Imran Khan has nearly 3x as many wickets as Bumrah has with nearly the same average. And Waqar has similarly almost 3x as many wickets with a ridiculous strike rates.

I whole heartedly agree that great players will be great in every era. However, I don’t put Waqar in that category just like I don’t put Muralitharan and Ajmal.

Waqar in today’s era would be only marginally better than guys like Rauf and Wahab just like Ajmal was an extremely ordinary spinner with a clean action and Muralitharan should have never been allowed to play.

Wasim and Imran though were exceptional bowlers who would undoubtedly be amongst the best fast bowlers in the world in any time period.

Waqar was capable of bowling 95 mph in his youth and that pace coupled with doctored balls made him virtually unplayable. In today’s era, he would be ineffective without the doctored balls and as we have seen with the likes of Haris, Wood and Ferguson, raw pace isn’t always the answer.

 

[160KPH]

Top 5 Asian bowlers in ODIs :-

1. Wasim Akram
2. Muttiah Muralitharan
3. Jasprit Bumrah
4. Mohammad Shami
5. Saqlain Mushtaq

Performance in World Cup given more weightage. Wasim and Murali were top two but since Wasim had a World Cup Final MOM, he gets the #1 rank ahead of Murali.

Bumrah, Saqlain, Waqar and Shami are other strong contenders who average under 25 and have played atleast two ODI World Cups. Of the four, neither are World Cup winners but Bumrah and Shami have superior World Cup records than Waqar and Saqlain, Waqar being dropped from the team in 1999 WC while Saqlain failed to even survive 10 years of international career or 2 complete World Cups like Murali, Wasim, Bumrah and Shami did.

Bumrah and Shami complete the top 4 with excellent World Cups behind them and averaging 23 and 24 each with Shami particularly having a tremendous World Cup record and Bumrah having a GOAT level economy of 4.5 in this era inspite of being #1 choice in death overs bowling. Saqlain gets a #5 spot, just ahead of Waqar.

Other major contenders were Vaas, Kapil, Akhtar, Malinga, Kuldeep and Imran. But their average was over 25. Siraj doesn't make it due to low sample.

Why would you use career averages as the standard when Bumrah has had such a short career thus far? You can’t use career average because then you’re taking into account the years when the bowlers were way past their prime and hurt their stats while Bumrah has so far only bowled while in the prime age for bowling - he’s not even 30 yet. If you’re trying to make a proper comparison, compare records of players after they had played the same number of matches.

Bumrah has only played 89 ODI’s. After Shoaib Akhtar played 89 ODI’s, he had taken 146 wickets at an average of 21.52 and a SR of 28.2. At the same point in Bumrah’s career, Shoaib Akhtar had taken more wickets at a better average, strike rate, and economy than Bumrah.

 

[160KPH]

Concur with this. If he can help india win a series in SA and potentially England then I will put him up there with wasim provided he can continue to maintain his average for 4 to 5 more years to fulfil the longevity quota too.

Bit more to go. Great bowler.

But he has a tendency to go missing in crucial games. 2017 champions trophy
Guess he was young then
Failed in wtc 1 post injury
Did good in 2019 wc semis
Did pretty good in 2023 finals but not so good in semis.
Choked in t20 2022 as well

In England final test failed to defend 378 as captain.

Also failed in 3rd test vs SA 2022.

Great test bowler and very good in odi.

But average in t20 tbh.

Yeah it’s just not fair at all to compare career averages because most of the bowlers that Bumrah is being compared with had their career stats damaged by playing longer and past their prime years. Bumrah’s numbers will also most likely get worse as he continues playing into his 30s.

Even Shoaib Akhtar had way better stats than Bumrah at this point in his career. Bumrah has played 89 ODIs. When Shoaib Akhtar had finished his 89th ODI, he had 146 wickets at an average of 21.52 and a SR of 28.2. So he literally had more wickets at a better average, strike rate, and economy than Bumrah.

If we’re going to use such a small sample size to compare against long careers then Naseem Shah must be the greatest bowler who ever lived. He has an average of 16.92 and a SR of 21.7 in ODIs.

 

[160KPH]

I was looking at the wrong column for Bumrah’s wickets so to remove any confusion and to be clear, after 89 ODIs (the number Bumrah has currently played):

Bumrah has 149 wickets at an average of 23.55 and a SR of 30.7

Shoaib Akhtar had 146 wickets at an average of 21.52 and a SR of 28.2

So across their first 89 ODIs, Shoaib took 3 less wickets but had a much better average, a better strike rate, and a better economy.

(Previously I said Bumrah had less wickets because I was still thinking of the previous discussion in the thread about Bumrah having 128 wickets in Test cricket thus far.)

 

[Ab Fan]

Why would you use career averages as the standard when Bumrah has had such a short career thus far? You can’t use career average because then you’re taking into account the years when the bowlers were way past their prime and hurt their stats while Bumrah has so far only bowled while in the prime age for bowling - he’s not even 30 yet. If you’re trying to make a proper comparison, compare records of players after they had played the same number of matches.

Bumrah has only played 89 ODI’s. After Shoaib Akhtar played 89 ODI’s, he had taken 146 wickets at an average of 21.52 and a SR of 28.2. At the same point in Bumrah’s career, Shoaib Akhtar had taken more wickets at a better average, strike rate, and economy than Bumrah.

Bumrah doesn't have a short career. He has played two ODI World Cups and is sitting at close to 150 ODI wickets. Nowadays, ODIs are played lesser because that space has been taken by T20 cricket. So, you cannot put this against the current era players.

Back in Wasim, Waqar and SRT era, a series would generally comprise of 3 Tests and 5 ODIs. In today's era, it comprises of 3 Tests, 3 ODIs and 3 T20Is. So, if you are playing 200 ODIs in 10 years of career in 90s and 00s, then you are playing about 120-130 in today's era in the same time period. Considering that, Bumrah's sample is good enough already.

Having said that, average is not the major reason for rating Bumrah ahead. Bumrah is ahead because of his fat superior economy rate inspite of bowling continuously in death overs as well as his ODI World Cup record. In contrast, Waqar has been quite underwhelming in World Cup where he was either injured('92), flopped big time('96) or was dropped from the team('99). Bumrah won't be dropped ever.

Waqar's case is more similar to Mohammed Shami. High economy, great average but can easily have worse days than the actual spearhead of the attack( Wasim or Bumrah in each other case). Shami has one of the best ever World Cups which gives him an advantage though.

 

[Ab Fan]

Bumrah doesn't have a short career. He has played two ODI World Cups and is sitting at close to 150 ODI wickets. Nowadays, ODIs are played lesser because that space has been taken by T20 cricket. So, you cannot put this against the current era players.

Back in Wasim, Waqar and SRT era, a series would generally comprise of 3 Tests and 5 ODIs. In today's era, it comprises of 3 Tests, 3 ODIs and 3 T20Is. So, if you are playing 200 ODIs in 10 years of career in 90s and 00s, then you are playing about 120-130 in today's era in the same time period. Considering that, Bumrah's sample is good enough already.

Having said that, average is not the major reason for rating Bumrah ahead. Bumrah is ahead because of his far superior economy rate inspite of bowling continuously in death overs as well as his ODI World Cup record. In contrast, Waqar has been quite underwhelming in World Cup where he was either injured('92), flopped big time('96) or was dropped from the team('99). Bumrah won't be dropped ever.

Waqar's case is more similar to Mohammed Shami. High economy, great average but can easily have worse days than the actual spearhead of the attack( Wasim or Bumrah in each other case). Shami has one of the best ever World Cups which gives him an advantage though.

*Superior economy in context of era they played*

 

[160KPH]

Bumrah doesn't have a short career. He has played two ODI World Cups and is sitting at close to 150 ODI wickets. Nowadays, ODIs are played lesser because that space has been taken by T20 cricket. So, you cannot put this against the current era players.

Back in Wasim, Waqar and SRT era, a series would generally comprise of 3 Tests and 5 ODIs. In today's era, it comprises of 3 Tests, 3 ODIs and 3 T20Is. So, if you are playing 200 ODIs in 10 years of career in 90s and 00s, then you are playing about 120-130 in today's era in the same time period. Considering that, Bumrah's sample is good enough already.

Having said that, average is not the major reason for rating Bumrah ahead. Bumrah is ahead because of his fat superior economy rate inspite of bowling continuously in death overs as well as his ODI World Cup record. In contrast, Waqar has been quite underwhelming in World Cup where he was either injured('92), flopped big time('96) or was dropped from the team('99). Bumrah won't be dropped ever.

Waqar's case is more similar to Mohammed Shami. High economy, great average but can easily have worse days than the actual spearhead of the attack( Wasim or Bumrah in each other case). Shami has one of the best ever World Cups which gives him an advantage though.

That doesn’t take away from the fact that 200 wickets at an average of 25 is worth more than 100 wickets at an average of 25. The longer you can maintain an elite level of play the more credit you should get.

Bumrah is 29 currently. As he gets older his numbers will almost certainly get worse. He currently sits at an average of 23.55 so it’s not even unimaginable that he will have an average of 25 or higher at the end of his career. You can’t just compare Bumrah’s stats from 4 years of bowling during the prime bowling years of his life with career stats of players who have the stats of their time playing past their prime included. It would be much more fair to standardize this in any possible way - why not compare Bumrah to the best 4 year span of other player’s career? Or how good other players performed before the age of 30? Or how good other players performed during their first 89 ODIs. As I said previously, at this point Shoaib Akhtar had a lower average, strike rate, and economy.

Now if Bumrah continues this level of performance until he is 34-35 then he will be in the discussion with the absolute greatest bowlers. But right now he has had a good 4 year span of bowling - a very very good 4 years span where he was one of the best bowlers in the world. But he’s played at this level for 4 years. Wasim Akram played at this level for 19 years and took 350 ODI wickets.

It could very well go the other way and Bumrah loses form as he ages and ends up with an average above 25 and an economy above 5. We just have to wait and see.

 

[Ab Fan]

That doesn’t take away from the fact that 200 wickets at an average of 25 is worth more than 100 wickets at an average of 25. The longer you can maintain an elite level of play the more credit you should get.

Bumrah is 29 currently. As he gets older his numbers will almost certainly get worse. He currently sits at an average of 23.55 so it’s not even unimaginable that he will have an average of 25 or higher at the end of his career. You can’t just compare Bumrah’s stats from 4 years of bowling during the prime bowling years of his life with career stats of players who have the stats of their time playing past their prime included. It would be much more fair to standardize this in any possible way - why not compare Bumrah to the best 4 year span of other player’s career? Or how good other players performed before the age of 30? Or how good other players performed during their first 89 ODIs. As I said previously, at this point Shoaib Akhtar had a lower average, strike rate, and economy.

Now if Bumrah continues this level of performance until he is 34-35 then he will be in the discussion with the absolute greatest bowlers. But right now he has had a good 4 year span of bowling - a very very good 4 years span where he was one of the best bowlers in the world. But he’s played at this level for 4 years. Wasim Akram played at this level for 19 years and took 350 ODI wickets.

It could very well go the other way and Bumrah loses form as he ages and ends up with an average above 25 and an economy above 5. We just have to wait and see.

Bumrah debuted in ODIs in 2016. So, it's 7 years and not 4 years. Bumrah has been around from 7 years in which he alongwith Starc have been the top two bowlers of this generation. Rest are behind. Yes, 7 years may still not enough but he has done it for good enough period now especially with his wickets tally reached to 150 and was part of two full World Cups where he was tested against every international standard team. It's only a matter of 2-3 years of white ball cricket more and 200 wickets will be enough to put him in the league of top 2 fast bowlers from Asia in ODI cricket.

 

[160KPH]

Bumrah debuted in ODIs in 2016. So, it's 7 years and not 4 years. Bumrah has been around from 7 years in which he alongwith Starc have been the top two bowlers of this generation. Rest are behind. Yes, 7 years may still not enough but he has done it for good enough period now especially with his wickets tally reached to 150 and was part of two full World Cups where he was tested against every international standard team. It's only a matter of 2-3 years of white ball cricket more and 200 wickets will be enough to put him in the league of top 2 fast bowlers from Asia in ODI cricket.

I don’t think that Bumrah and Starc are in the same discussion yet. Starc has almost a 100 more ODI wickets, has played for 5 more years, and has 2 WCs.

Bumrah would have to play another few years to accomplish as much as Starc has already accomplished. There’s also players like Boult who have similar stats to Bumrah and led his team to two World Cup finals.

 

[Buffet]

Greatness in test format is defined by how you do in oppositions den.

Last 8 years of Bowling record of playing away test with 100+ wickets.

Highest number of wickets - Bumrah
Lowest Avrge - Bumrah
Most 5-fers - Bumrah









Last 8 years in ODI format with 75+ wickets for pacers. Didn't bother to filter Associates.

Lowest ER - Bumrah -- ER of 4.5 is simply unreal in era of 350 scores.
Highest number of wickets - Bumrah
Second Lowest average - Bumrah








Rarely you will find a bowler who has been better than everyone else in both formats for long periods like 8 years. Didn't even list T20 because he is simply standout there as well.

Last 8 years, the best bowler in all formats combined - No contender other than Bumrah. If you can be the best in all formats for a decade, you go down as a top of the top tier players in history.

If a bowler can use the new ball, middle overs, old ball in ODI so well with ER of 4.5 in current era then you got to take your hats off. Combine that with his test exploits, just brilliant.

500+ international wickets and few more gun test series, he will end up right up there with the best. Nah, he is not going to get 400 ODI wickets. Expecting that will be weird given players play an additional format. Now, it's very hard to be gun in all format, but Bumrah is gun in test, ODI and in T20.

 

[PakEngFan]

Below are the stats of test cricket in SENAW countries for these respective bowlers:

Wasim
M - 41
wk - 181
avg - 24.67

Waqar
M - 36
wk - 137
avg - 28.39

Akhtar
M - 12
wk - 39
avg - 30.12

Imran
M - 37
wk - 157
avg - 26.11

Bumrah
M - 26
wk - 114
avg - 22.77

Not only his stats are better but Bumrah won his team 2 test series in Australia which others couldn't. Also, he accumulated those stats by bowling in a batting friendly era. Had he played during 90s, his stats perhaps would have been even better. So all those people who you know that would NEVER put Bumrah along with Wasim, Waqar or Imran are either don't understand this sport of simply biased.

And then guys won Pakistan test series in England and NZ which Bumrah hasn't. So using your logic now they are better then Bumrah.

 

[JAV12341]

Bumrah is and will go down as the GOAT period guy is a different class to every bowler there has ever been

 

[kron]

Bumrah is and will go down as the GOAT period guy is a different class to every bowler there has ever been

He is great but cmon goat? He has to win the WC or Wtc atleast. Still below wasim and will be until he wins a wtc or world cup (it has to be odi not t20) and maintain his average for the next 5 years.

He is better than shoaib and Waqar, I will give him that.

 

[kron]

I don’t think that Bumrah and Starc are in the same discussion yet. Starc has almost a 100 more ODI wickets, has played for 5 more years, and has 2 WCs.

Bumrah would have to play another few years to accomplish as much as Starc has already accomplished. There’s also players like Boult who have similar stats to Bumrah and led his team to two World Cup finals.

Reaching finals is not the issue tbh. He has reached wtc final and wc final in odi. He needs to win. Period. He chokes

 

[Ab Fan]

I don’t think that Bumrah and Starc are in the same discussion yet. Starc has almost a 100 more ODI wickets, has played for 5 more years, and has 2 WCs.

Bumrah would have to play another few years to accomplish as much as Starc has already accomplished. There’s also players like Boult who have similar stats to Bumrah and led his team to two World Cup finals.

Starc is 4 years older so he has more ODI wickets.

Boult is also older so picked more wickets but his World Cup record is worse than Bumrah and Shami.

As things stands, among active players, these names would be my top 4 fast bowlers of this generation in ODI cricket. Guys like Hazelwood and Cummins have even lower wickets tally.

 

[BouncerGuy]

Bumrah also took his team to the World Cup final. He is a great bowler and probably one the best all-format bowlers currently in the world. The only problem is his fitness. He is injury-prone so the main issue will be his longevity.